Dear Subscribers,

As a result of the increased trolling and immaturity from a small minority of contributors, we have decided to shut this sub down, as we cannot afford to spend so much time responding to poor content and behavior and repeating the same messaging over and over again. This sub will be going away effective immediately.

Background

This sub was originally created and named by a questioning Ahmadi who wanted to freely express his questions and concerns about the Ahmadiyya Jama’at, however there was no activity and he soon became inactive himself. The current moderators found it and wanted to develop a place where people could share their questions, doubts, criticisms and experiences freely but in a respectful manner. This was never intended to be a place to give freedom to anti-ahmadi rantings and trashy posts. However, to be true to the expression 'free speech' in this sub's name, we have refrained from banning anyone. We have suggested guidelines, but never enforced them. We have waited for numerous spam reports to come in before we decided to act on any of them. When tasteless content is not dealt with swiftly, salvaging an online space means spending countless hours writing lengthy posts to try to explain why certain conduct is in poor taste. This is both exhausting for moderators and a waste of time for subscribers who come here to engage in good discussions.

It’s a shame that a few people have failed to engage respectfully and refuse to recognize that their low quality posts are often of little interest to the majority that frequent this sub. They have been unable to temper their hatred of Ahmadis and do not understand the importance of constructive and civil discourse. We appreciate that everyone will have different experiences and opinions and we don’t wish to suppress this diversity, but one thing we feel we should all be able to agree on are some basic human values such as respect and compassion. As the popularity of this community continues to grow and as we near almost a hundred subscribers we feel a greater need to take care of the reputation of this community in order to encourage its continued growth. We have come to the conclusion that most of us will be better served by a new sub that is very clear about our values and objectives.

If you want to read more about the history and motivation for shutting down this sub, we have a wiki page on the new subreddit that we have created: https://www.reddit.com/r/islam_ahmadiyya/wiki/history-and-motivation.

Going Forward

This existing contents of this subreddit will remain available for you to read, however it will no longer be possible to post here.

If you appreciate our values and desire intelligent, mature discussion and constructive critique, please consider joining the subreddit Questioning Islam/Ahmadiyyat where we welcome you to continue having many of the discussions that we have been having here (without the low brow stuff). You can find this sub at /r/islam_ahmadiyya. We did try to fit the word 'questioning' in there, but we are limited to 21 characters by Reddit. As before, we welcome everyone, no matter what their beliefs are, with the important caveat that they do share our basic values. We hope that respectful and intelligent critique will be the hallmark of this new sub.

Shutting down this sub means that people here who have different basic values and objectives to us for example those who cannot moderate their hostility, those who are more interested in sharing salacious gossip or those who seek to appeal to a different audience now have motivation to explore alternative options. They may choose to move to another sub like /r/qadiani. Alternatively, if anyone feels the need to have a sub where absolutely anything goes, they are encouraged to create their own new free speech community. Without a lot of human effort to counteract the inevitable crass posts and comments, they may find that building an active community like this, is much harder than they think.

We truly believe that the success of this sub thus far has been down to the quality of discussions that many of you have had a hand in. We are grateful to those of you who have demonstrated decency and courtesy when sharing your insights, opinions and experiences. Thank you for understanding the sort of tone and quality that we want to promote. For those of you who have contributed to some excellent, intelligent discussions, this is not goodbye. Come join us at our new home and subscribe and post there. We look forward to more dignified and intelligent dialogue and discussion over there.

In todays Khutba I want to talk about how Mel Gibson of the Tribe of the chosen people eclipsed Mirza Ghulam.

Yes we are going to talk about the miracle of the total eclipse that Mirza ghulam claimed to be a sign of him. Mirza Ghulam reportedly claimed many months AFTER the eclipse had occured, that this eclipse was his own sign. Initially he claimed, that such a sign has never occured before, once people had claimed, that such eclipses happen regularly, the qadianis claimed, that they did not happen during Ramaza, and when someone proofed that such eclispes had happened before also during ramazan.... blalala balalla... readup the rest from other sources.......

Strangely enough, despite receiving thousands of very important revelations like "Tichi Tichi", or whose wife was a prostitute and whose not etc., god failed to inform Mirza Ghulam in time of a heavenly sign of the moon eclipse. Therefore Mirza Ghulam could not claim BEFORE the eclipse had occured that this very important sign is about to occur.

And Thats where Hazrat Mel Gibson comes into play.

Unlike Mirza Ghulam, Mel Gibson was the far better prophet. In Mel Gibson's movie "Apocalypto", it is very nicely depicted, how the old Mayans many hundred years ago could anticipate sun and moon eclipses and use this knowledge to drive fear into the hearts of their people and claim beeing gods with all the percs that come with it.

Yeah yeah yeah. Now you come and say how can you compare a work of fiction with the Qadianis claims?!

Because:

While Mirza Ghulams claims and "prophesies" were pure fiction, Hazrat Mel Gibsons story has some real truth in it. Mayans (and also other societies) many hundred years before Mirza Ghulam could anticipate Moon and sun eclipses before they occured by just pure science and did not require any prophesies from the almighty, by just using their brains. Looks like Mirza Ghulam wasn't even blessed with this skill.

Ameen!

Sources just pulled out of my ass:

https://www.denverpost.com/2017/08/17/university-of-colorado-mayans-solar-eclipse-history/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_astronomy#Eclipses

https://www.popsci.com/people-have-been-able-to-predict-eclipses-for-really-long-time-heres-how

https://ahmadiyyafactcheckblog.com/2017/11/30/mirza-nasir-ahmads-marriage-with-dr-tahira-in-1982-he-was-73-and-she-was-25/

https://ahmadiyyafactcheckblog.com/2017/01/09/fast-times-at-qadian-high-adultery-and-immorality-of-mahmud-ahmad-and-company/

https://ahmadiyyafactcheckblog.com/2018/01/07/when-mirza-ghulam-ahmad-was-ordered-by-the-british-govt-to-stop-issuing-death-prophecies-and-stop-calling-people-kafir/

https://ahmadiyyafactcheckblog.com/2018/01/11/the-ahmadi-mullah-ibrahim-noonan-has-ordered-ahmadis-to-attack-fiona-oleary/

Tap-in with me guys!!!

I'm always amazed by the following type of ahmadis.

In countless private conversations, these ahmadis will take every opportunity to tear their mouths about ahmadiyya and all their shortcomings, but at the same time they register their children for waqfe nau scheme, enroll in the Wasiyyat scam and regularly make well publicized considerably money donations in order to brag before their peers in the sect.

These cases always show me how deeply trapped these people are in this sect. They know about the sects shortcomings, instead of just laying low and do the minimum, they go on and try to present them as model Ahmadis by subscribing to all those scheemes, they know are scams.

Some people are beyond salvation.

I found this interesting book:

http://files.qern.org/qarchives/oppbooks/Ahmadiyya-Beliefs-and-Experiences-Odeh.pdf

The author, a Mr. Odeh was an Arab from Israel, who was born into this sect. He initially received the VIP treatment with a Qadiani wife, posting as Missionary in England and two Mirzas even visited his familiy home.

Once he started questioning this cult, he was ratted out and the Mirza turned against him.

Main take outs from this book:

Unlike other books, this is a very personal view, with many private picturs and letter received form the Mirzas personally. So those "Source Fetishist" can calm down.

The theological questioning is however also very good, and he keeps it brieve.

One new thing I took away is that Mirza's original bait conditions included one point which required the baitee to "be good to British governement". This was apparently changed later, but MGA referred to it in his writings severeal times.

ALso this book focuses on Mirza Tahir and his yesmen, as the author left around the year 1990 and he has many critical things to say about Mirza tahir, who many wrongly believe to be a "decent guy", including made up and corrected "wahis", his mubailah challenge with Zia ul haq and his way of cleberating the 100 centenary of this sect in a expensive hotel in London and many accounts of fake convertees who joined and left the sect within the authors 4 year as missionary in ENgland.

Definately a good read.

Assuming most of you are desi or honourary desis due to your ties to the Jama'at and have taboos against dating, how did you find romance (if you did) outside of rishta nata. Would you date or were you too scared of being seen by Ahmadis. Or did dating seem futile if your family couldn't accept your potential partner anyway so you succumbed to familial pressure and married your cousin? How does one find romance?

Hey everyone. I discovered this thread last night and had no idea such a place existed for ex-Ahmadis and the like. Well, I just shared my story (it's lengthy, so feel free to skip it) at exahmadigirlinsecret.tumblr.com

Anyway, I’m wondering if anyone here has tips on dealing with depression or anxiety related to doubts (such as “forced” religious participation, pretending around others that you believe), leaving the religion (or after you left), etc.? If anyone has gone through these hurdles, I’d love to hear how you coped with them and got through it all. Any advice/links to similar stories would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

If there is anyone who still doubts the large numbers of converts, that rush to join Ahmadiyya, then please have look at this Wikipedia articel, that lists every convert in detail since 1993. And of course there is proof of these numbers and that proof is also liked right there, to teh Al fazl paper announcing these numbers.

See yourself if you still have doubt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay%27ah_(Ahmadiyya)

Hassan Radwan stated so eloquently:

If there is a God I would expect he would be more noble, more compassionate, more loving, kind and more forgiving than the most admirable of our human species. I would expect him to be as far distant from the ignoble, cruel, egotistic, despotic, bully oppressors that humans can stoop to.

For this reason I cannot believe in the Qur'an nor the Bible.

If there is a God. He must surely be better than that.

If I'm wrong then I prefer he punish me for thinking better of him, than bow to a God who does not deserve it. If I cannot stay true to my principals & values, then I am nothing.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=2072584592976359&id=100006745147497

I just wanted to comment on some posts and realised, you have restricted me from commenting. I can not post comments directly to topic and when i try to reply to other commentsy, no "submit" button appears,, only cancel. Other subreddits work fine.

I realise that this is some sneaky censoring attempt of the mods in the true spirit of ahmadi tablighi procedures.

Why call yourself freespeech, when this is obviously not a freespeech subreddit?

Go and make tabligh for the ahmadiyya instead of pretending to be critical towards ahmadis.

In recent days a brutal case of rape and murder of a 7 year old has gripped Pakistan and people in Pakistan are calling on Pakistan to start introducing sex-ed in schools so widespread abuse of children can be stopped. However Ahmadiyya Jammat has opposed such education even in the west including Canada.

In 2015 they urged Ahmadis to take out kids from school and send them to mosques in protest of the 2015 HPE Curriculum.

References

Ahmadiyya Muslim Teachers Association

Ahmadi teachers should:  Hold regular meetings to educate their members on Islamic teachings pertaining to sexual education and alternate life styles  Inform Jama‘at of any un-Islamic activities and values being promoted in school curriculum  Avoid teaching courses that may conflict with Islamic values  Decline teaching courses that conflict with their Islamic values  Assist Jama‘at (and Jama‘at schools) in creating an alternate narrative to the current curriculum https://imgur.com/a/YWr3Q

Members must be aware of and familiarize themselves with:

1. Islamic teachings on sexual education and alternate life styles
2. Curriculum document and any updates
3. Options available to them as a result of disagreement with the curriculum

Members are welcome to seek out the assistance of Jama‘at or their local school in this respect. However, it is the responsibility of members to take an active approach in educating their children on the Islamic teachings in this regard.

However, parents must be aware that despite withdrawing their child from class, it is likely their child

will be exposed to the content through their peer groups. Therefore, parents should ensure that their children are aware of Islamic teachings and values in this respect. Parents who can afford private schooling should explore this option. Local Jama‘at should encourage such parents to utilize the private schooling option.

https://imgur.com/a/YWr3Q

The religious and cultural identity of the community came to the forefront for both of my participants as the majority of the objections to the curriculum were rooted in religious beliefs according to the parents and the community.

https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/bitstream/1807/77009/1/Fragiadakis_Alexandra_M_201706_MT_MTRP.pdf

Leaders of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community in Ontario, meanwhile, are urging parents to opt out of the new curriculum if it doesn't change, come the fall. This week, they will show their displeasure with certain parts of the curriculum, including topics on gender identity and learning about intercourse, by sending youngsters to mosques and community centers for schooling.

"We feel that the government has not been very inclusive when it comes to talking to us," Imam Farhan Iqbil told VICE News in front of a group of students during class at the Baitul Islam Mosque in Maple, Ont. "I'm not saying sex ed should never be taught, but we feel there are topics that are being taught too early, and that's against our religion."

https://news.vice.com/article/thousands-of-canadian-students-are-ditching-class-to-protest-their-provinces-new-sex-ed-curriculum

So I came across this guy saying there is no concept of the veil in Islam, and many ahadith prove that only free women were allowed to take veils and in contrast slave women were forced not to veil themselves. So which got me searching and here is what I found. Sahih Bukhari says Prophet Muhammad bought a pretty jewish slave girl Saffiyah who later became his wife but people were confused whether she was his wife or just a slave girl he had relations with, so they said if he Prophet Muahmmad orders her to take the veil that means she is married to him and a free woman, and if he does not ask her to put the veil that means she is a slave woman. See the Hadith for yourself.

Anas (Allah be pleased with him) reported: I was sitting behind Abu Talha on the Day of Khaibar and my feet touched the foot of Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him), and we came (to the people of Khaibar) when the sun had risen and they had driven out their cattle, and had themselves come out with their axes, large baskets and hatchets, and they said: (Here come) Muhammad and the army. Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him) said: Khaibar is ruined. Verily when we get down in the valley of a people, evil is the morning of the warned ones (al-Qur'an, xxxvii. 177). Allah, the Majestic and the Glorious, defeated them (the inhabitants of Khaibar), and there fell to the lot of Dihya a beautiful girl, and Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him) got her in exchange of seven heads, and then entrusted her to Umm Sulaim so that she might embellish her and prepare her (for marriage) with him. He (the narrator) said: He had been under the impression that he had said that so that she might spend her period of 'Iddah in her (Umm Sulaim's) house. (The woman) was Safiyya daughter of Huyayy. Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him) arranged the wedding feast consisting of dates, cheese, and refined butter, and pits were dug and tiers were set in them dining cloths, and there was brought cheese and refined butter, and these were placed there. And the people ate to their fill, and they said: We do not know whether he (the Holy Prophet) had married her (as a free woman), or as a slave woman. They said: If he (the Holy Prophet) would make her wear the veil, then she would be a (free married) woman, and if he would not make her wear the veil, then she should be a slave woman. When he intended to ride, he made her wear the veil and she sat on the hind part of the camel;

so they came to know that he had married her. As they approached Medina, Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him) drove (his ride) quickly and so we did. 'Adba' (the name of Allah's Apostle's camel) stumbled and Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him) fell down and she (Radrat Safiyya: also fell down. He (the Holy Prophet) stood up and covered her. woman looked towards her and said: May Allah keep away the Jewess! He (the narrator) said: I said: Aba Hamza, did Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him) really fall down? He said: Yes, by Allah, he in fact fell down. Anas said: I also saw the wedding feast of Zainab, and he (the Holy Prophet) served bread and meat to the people, and made them eat to their heart's content, and he (the Holy Prophet) sent me to call people, and as he was free (from the ceremony) he stood up and I followed him. Two persons were left and they were busy in talking and did not get out (of the apartment). He (the Holy Prophet) then proceeded towards (the apartments of) his wives. He greeted with as-Salamu 'alaikum to every one of them and said: Members of the household, how are you? They said: Messenger of Allah, we are in good state 'How do you find your family? He would say: In good state. When he was free from (this work of exchanging greetings) he came back, and I also came back along with him. And as he reached the door, (he found) that the two men were still busy in talking. And when they saw him having returned, they stood up and went out; and by Allah! I do not know whether I had informed him, or there was a revelation to him (to the affect) that they had gone. He (the Holy Prophet) then came back and I also returned along with him, and as he put his step on the threshold of his door he hung a curtain between me and him, and (it was on this occasion) that Allah revealed this verse: (" O you who believe), do not enter the houses of the Prophet unless permission is given to 'you" (xxxiii. 53).

Sahih Muslim Book 8 Hadith 3328 https://muflihun.com/muslim/8/3328

This image is from a Powerpoint presentation used during a speech to women at Jalsa UK 2010.

http://images.slideplayer.com/9/2369849/slides/slide_31.jpg

You can find the full presentation here:

http://slideplayer.com/slide/2369849/

It details the horrors that await women, and society, if women don't cover up with a scarf, loose coat (with buttons! must have buttons!), there will be a loss of respect for office-holders, back-biting and even divorce and domestic abuse. Also, people will know that you're a whore and no one will want to marry you (sorry, "rishta nata problems").

I feel so bad for women who grow up and then live their entire lives being told that just about everything about them, their bodies and their actions are problematic and need to be hidden away. I can't imagine growing up and living that way. I'm so sorry. The full force of this only hits me at a distance, and it's just repulsive to subjugate millions of people in this way.

It’s an age old question, but sometimes one really does wonder where this compassionate God is?

The Rape and murder of a young girl that is currently being reported in Pakistani media, had me thinking this once again: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.geo.tv/amp/176200

Here is an Ahmadi response to this question: http://rationalreligion.co.uk/messianic-reasoning/why-does-god-allow-suffering

Does anyone here think this child’s suffering was necessary or served some really fundamental purpose?

canada's ameer sahib recently forwarded a long-ass PDF to everybody about how to prepare for emergencies and within that PDF was the recommendation to pack homeopathic medicine. it just reminded me of how ahmadis are obsessed with homeopathy.

a couple days ago my dad had me go to a homeopathic doctor's house to get medicine so that i could drive to a neighbouring city and give the medicine to a non-muslim friend of his who he'd promised medicince. the friend was super thankful i brought him medicine but i felt bad, like "dude this won't do shit for you" but oh well, my dad had sweet intentions. i hope there's some placebo effect.

anyway, has anybody challenged an ahmadi about homeopathy? it's a pseudo-science that even their great "logical" and "rational" MTA "studied" which should be sufficient to make one skeptical of the jamaat's congruence with science. i guess this can be brushed aside as merely a hobby of MTA but i think that's too easy for them.

People raised in the Jama'at will be familiar with the restrictions on wedding activities. I'm told these are a lot more clamped down than they were 30 years ago in the West.

I believe this ties into an earlier post about "out-Musliming-other-Muslims" in order to maintain a degree of chest beating about loving Muhammad the most.

To be fair, I do believe there's some wisdom in not encouraging an arms race of expenditure and extravagance to keep up with the Joneses. That said, cutting-out the playing of a 'dhol' (drum), dance, and music--which can be enjoyed by friends and family without grand expenditures, is where I do feel many Ahmadis miss out.

This Vimeo channel has a few Muslim weddings that they've done: https://vimeo.com/freshvisualtasticfilms

It really hits home when you contrast these--from Shia and Sunni couples, with Ahmadi weddings. Just thought I'd share.

1. Sadaf and Saad: https://vimeo.com/74046134
2. Kulsoom and Mehdi: https://vimeo.com/248920536
3. Hadil and Hashim: https://vimeo.com/241638296

I thought these vignettes highlighting these weddings were done really well. Makes you a bit nostalgic for what our friends and families miss out on.

No, not the 10% of Ahmadi Muslims who are devout and don't miss this at all. I mean the 90% of Ahmadi Muslims who are born into it and have to go along with muted weddings because they feel powerless to rock the boat.

Trapped in conformity.

I am looking to add some interesting reads to my bookshelf. I was hoping if the kind people here would be able to recommend some good material for me. These could be anything that you found influential and helped you in your journey of critically evaluating religion and its different theological claims.

One of the most difficult things for me personally starting out was finding balanced, unbiased material. Having someone to talk to, question and discuss my ideas was and is still something that I sorely miss. Healthy discussions on religious critique is not encouraged in our social circles and most of us keep our thoughts to ourselves for the fear of being ostracized. Of course, the internet is a great resource, but recommendations are always helpful and set the stage for great discussions and ideas. There are so many gems out there that we might not even have heard about!

For those of us starting out, it might be helpful to have a list of tried and tested, verified resources suggested by those of us who have already been evaluating religion (islam/ahmaddiya/any other) for sometime. May I therefore suggest, using this thread to compile a list of resources which could act as a launchpad into the deeper recesses of religious investigations.