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Too long, don't read. In order of chronological birth.

House Targaryen: Queen Visenya Targaryen, King Aegon I Targaryen, Queen Rhaenys Targaryen, parents Lord Aerion and Lady Vaelena, King Viserys I Targaryen, Prince Daemon Targaryen, Prince Aegon Targaryen (died at birth), parents Prince Baelon Targaryen and Princess Alyssa Targaryen, Queen Rhaenyra Targaryen, Unborn child, Prince Baelon Targaryen (died at birth), parents King Viserys I Targaryen and Queen Aemma Arryn, Prince Jaehaerys Targaryen, Queen Jaehaera Targaryen, Prince Maelor Targaryen, parents King Aegon II Targaryen and Queen Haelena Targaryen, King Aegon IV Targaryen, Queen Naerys Targaryen, Prince Aemon Targaryen, parents King Viserys II Targaryen and Lady Larra Rogarre, Prince Aelor Targaryen, Princess Aelora Targaryen, Princess Daenora Targaryen, parents Prince Rhaegal Targaryen and Lady Alys Arryn (some Arryn woman), Prince Rhaegar Targaryen, Prince Viserys Targaryen, Queen Daenerys Targaryen, parents King Aerys II Targaryen and Queen Rhaella Targaryen.

House Martell: Three unknown children, parents Princess Consort Daenerys Targaryen and Prince Maron Martell, Prince Doran Martell, Princess Elia Martell, Prince Oberyn Martell, parents unnamed Princess Martell and unknown Prince Consort, Princess Arianne Martell, Prince Quentyn Martell, Prince Trystan Martell, parents Prince Doran Martell and Lady Mellario of Novros.

House Tully: Lady Catelyn Stark, Lady Lysa Arryn, Lord Edmure Tully, parents Lord Hoster Tully and Lady Minisa Whent.

House Lannister: Queen Cersei Lannister, Sir Jamie Lannister, Lord Tyrion Lannister, parents Lord Tywin Lannister and Lady Joanna Lannister.

House Baratheon: King Robert I Baratheon, King Stannis I Baratheon, King Renly I Baratheon, parents (forgot their names), King Joffrey I Baratheon, Princess Mrycella Baratheon, King Tommen I Baratheon, parents King Robert I Baratheon and Queen Cersei Lannister.

Should have Stannis attacked the Reach before going to King's Landing?

TLDR: The "Unkiss" was ultimately just a hint to attentive readers to pay attention to how things are laid out in the very same chapter.

Much has been made about Sansa's recollection of events in ACOK, where she claims that The Hound had kissed her.

Sansa wondered what Megga would think about kissing the Hound, as she had. He'd come to her the night of the battle stinking of wine and blood. He kissed me and threatened to kill me, and made me sing him a song.

There are various theories that have spawned relating to their relationship, but when GRRM was asked about it, he claims that it is to demonstrate Sansa's unreliability as a narrator.

But that just begs the question, what else has Sansa been misremembering? Or why do we need to see Sansa as unreliable?

I've just been doing a reread, and coming into that chapter - Sansa II, ASOS, before the "unkiss" is ever mentioned, there's already a bit of a puzzle going on in the chapter. The seamstress visiting Sansa is clearly hiding something from her.

"Leave the colors to me, my lady. You will be pleased, I know you will. You shall have smallclothes and hose as well, kirtles and mantles and cloaks, and all else befitting a . . . a lovely young lady of noble birth."

On a reread, it isn't entirely a mystery that the seamstress is hiding the fact that Sansa is to be married to Tyrion later, the missing word is almost certainly "bride". Sansa does end up getting such a wedding dress and marries Tyrion later. However, that creates a new mystery. Taking the events in the chapter straight chronologically, as well as the later Tyrion chapter where we first learn that the two will be married, it appears that it must have been Dontos who informed Baelish and thus Tywin on the conspiracy to marry Sansa to Willas Tyrell. Yet, a straight read of the chapter makes it appear that Dontos was told about the plan only after the seamstress came to get Sansa's fit.

However, if you read the entire chapter with the idea that Sansa might not be relating events reliably, you can notice that the entire section with Dontos is not necessarily in the present, but that Sansa is recollecting events with Dontos that happened earlier. With this in mind, the re-reader can recognise that the events with the seamstress may have happened after the events with Dontos.

Why did GRRM write it this way? Having the seamstress come before the other events simplifies the understanding of the narrative on the first read when we have no reason to suspect the Lannisters are secretly planning to marry Sansa off, while maintaining some mystery and suspense. If she hasn't told anyone yet, you will not suspect that the Lannisters are already working against the Tyrells at this point. But the unkiss helps draw attention to the non-linear chronology, allowing re-readers to puzzle out and understand what was going on beneath the surface of the narrative and understand events more clearly.

TLDR: The "Unkiss" was ultimately just a hint to attentive readers to pay attention to how things are laid out in the very same chapter.

Daenerys Targaryen dies in the show and she's the last living member of House Targaryen and the last member to carry that name but there's Jon Snow who is the future to House Targaryen but it gets very messy here. Jon is still a basted of House Stark. He still has his surname Snow. He gets sent to beyond the wall so this means House Targaryen is screwed in the show becasue Jon Snow who is the "last member" of House Targaryen is not part of Westeros and many civilians believe that House Targaryen died with Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow is still a bustard whether he is or not. Who would want to marry him now? He's still a bastard, still has that surname, not many people know he is the "last" Targaryen and the future, he isn't recognised a Targaryen by Bran Stark, he doesn't have that surname. This means that, although Jon Snow is Targaryen/Valyrian by blood, he doesn't have the surname so the house and the name and everything else is dead unless Bran Stark recognises him as a Targaryen which is unlikely.

All in all, House Targaryen is effed in the HBO show Game of Thrones.

I used to wonder why Stannis never went to King's Landing and kinda abandoned Robert to his fate. My headcanon is that it was Melisandre who prevented Stannis from returning to King's Landing following Jon Arryn's death. She may have warned or shown what happens to him when he goes to the city.

She's vengeful and filled with hate. I'm trying to think how she would play into the overall story and what her purpose would be.

Curious, if Varys and Illyrio were plotting to put Aegon/fAegon on the throne the whole time, why did they give Danaerys the dragon eggs??

It makes sense that the King might do this when the Tullys are in active rebellion and fighting for Robb. However, in Fire and Blood there are numerous instances where the King gives Harrenhal away during times of peace. Why don't the Tullys do this? Like if for some reason the Dreadfort was vacant, wouldn't the Starks chose who gets the castle?

The pink letter is signed by Ramsay Bolton. It is sealed with pink sealing wax which is used by House Bolton.

We know King Stannis is currently outside Winterfell shortly about to go to battle. The letter is written after the battle was won by Ramsay, where the Frey's and Manderlys defeat stannis. It has details of Stannis, Mance, Melisandre, Shireen, Reek, fArya. All of this is known by Ramsay after he defeats them and finds out about the rescue attempt. Furthermore, I think Ramsay kills Roose like in the show and he become Lord of winterfell - that's what he signs the letter as.

...when you really think about it, Ned comes across as just as bad or even worse.

Now to be clear, I have nothing against Ned and I think most of this had to happen for plot convenience. I just disagree with people calling Cat a horrible mother to her biological children, while male characters don't receive similar criticism..

Ned didn't even tell Jon how bad the Night's Watch really is and it was Tyrion who had to explain it to him instead. Ned could have put his foot down and sent Jon to be a squire to one of his friends but instead he allowed him to join a soviet gulag with a bunch of criminals and rapists.

The way he handled Arya and Sansa in King's Landing also left a lot to be desired imo. First of all, Arya warned him about a conversation she overheard which hinted at him being in danger and he laughed it off. Secondly, it was obvious that Sansa was under Cersei's influence and he ignored it instead of talking to his kids more.

I love you Ned, but I think that first bookism makes you look bad.

He would have kept true identity until Theon chapters of ADWD or maybe more. Idk why he mentioned in Jaime chapter at ASOS. Its an unorthodox writing for Martin' s style. Did he wantted to highlight the connection between Jaime and Stark girls ?

if Jon snow is able to establish a warg bond with the dragon using both his Targaryen and Stark blood, then hypothetically what would happen to jon, like dragons are much more unnatural and magical creatures than the rest of the Animals, birds etc that wargs in the north bond with , in the lore and series, it is mentioned multiple times that dragons are deeply linked with fire magic. for example when aenys targaryen was born , he was very sickly and weak but when he bonded with his dragon he became stronger and more healthy, and when the last dragon died , it is mentioned in the extra material that the winters became longer and harsher and the summers shorter and weaker, moreover in the current story, after daenerys hatched her dragons , it was stated by quaith that the fire mage she saw later on which was able to conjure real fire constructs was only able to do that because of her dragons and the warlocks also desired the dragons to boost their power, so keeping these in mind ,would jon warging into a dragon give him some subtle supernatural abilities like while skinchanged into the dragon he can sense the magic of the others , or give warmth and better health to his armies while they are fighting the Others, strengthening his own people while weakening the Others and their undead servants etc, what are your thoughts?

Hello! After years of fighting with the novels I came up with a theory that helps explain why there seem to be so many holes in the story, leaving us with more questions than answers.

I realize that people looking for the PTWP speak of prophecies, signs, and riddles as if finding this person was a scavenging hunt. Well, that’s exactly the point, it’s a hunt in a story filled with beasts.

Story-wise, the hunt started when “the witch” (likely the GoHH) went to court and announced that the PTwP would be born from the line of Aerys and Rhaella. She was right, but it wasn’t that straightforward because she never named him.

Why? Well, likely because he was meant to have no name.

He loved Jon with all his heart at that moment. Even at seven, Bran understood what his brother had done. The count had come right only because Jon had omitted himself. He had included the girls, included even Rickon, the baby, but not the bastard who bore the surname Snow, the name that custom decreed be given to all those in the north unlucky enough to be born with no name of their own.” Bran I – AGoT

We also know that Rhaegar, who seemed to be the obvious answer to the witch’s riddle, started doing weird things like announcing he needed to be a warrior after he read something when he was a boy. The cherry on the weirdness pie comes during the tourney in Harrenhal when he publicly humiliates his wife by crowning Lyanna.

But he then seems to raise the bar when, allegedly, he steals the girl because he needs a “head”. His motivation for all the above as one of Dany’s visions proves was “the song of ice and fire”.

Now, the point is that the vision isn’t what we think it is, a declaration of his intent to have another child or even to steal Lyanna, but rather proof that his ‘weirdness’ is explained by the hunt, and more importantly, the vision proves he solved the riddle.

So, here’s what I’ll do:

• First, I’ll explain the riddle, how that’s related to the song of ice and fire, and how we’ll start solving this mess by understanding what “the one more” he mentioned means. – This part
• Then, we’ll solve the riddles starting in AGoT’s prologue followed by Ned’s fever dream.
• Finally, we’ll examine Jon’s desertion to get to the final piece of the puzzle.

There's a summary at the end if you’d like a much shorter version.

The riddle

So, what’s the riddle, you might ask?

During his trip to Oldtown, Aemon, who was suddenly reminded by Stannis’ arrival to the Wall of the whole PTWP thing, starts rumbling, and we learn that he had been in contact with Rhaegar regarding this mess, so he knew what the prince knew, and likely vice versa.

He tells Sam a couple of interesting things, first “the sphinx is the riddle, not the riddler” and then “Fire consumes, but cold preserves”. Let me explain what he meant by that.

Sphinxes, as you might know, are mythological creatures made of three different parts that include a human head, the body of an animal, usually a lion, and wings. In the story of Oedipus, a sphinx was plaguing the city killing everyone who couldn’t get the answer to her riddle, and being the hero of the story, Oedipus finds the answer causing the sphinx to destroy herself, though he later ends up involved in incest, kinslaying and other fun stuff.

In ASOIAF sphinxes always come in pairs, and that’s paramount.

One of the sphinxes is the Black Gate in the Nightfort, which explains the prophecy presented to the dragons.

You see the prophecy mentioned the king and queen by their names, and the “promised” prince that would be born, but never named him, that’s why the sphinx is the riddle, we’re missing a part: his identity. The first thing the Black Gate does is ask who you are as if not recognizing the person approaching.

The second “sphinx” is made by the statues in Winterfell. You know the name (and the face) of each king and their swords, but you don’t know the direwolf’s name.

We’ll discuss the Black Gate first.

When a sworn brother approaches the Black Gate, the door “wakes” to ask a question: who are you?

He’s not expected to give a name but a promise: “I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men.“

When you say the promise, identifying yourself with those words, the door replies: “Then Pass” and “consumes” itself.

Aemon was right, the Sphinx is the riddle. You see, the door changes its behavior as you approach, say the words, and cross. It wakes, lets you cross, and disappears only to appear again.

Each of those behaviors (waking, letting you in, and consuming) is linked to a part of the sphinx: the face, the body and the wings respectively.

In time, the Gate’s behavior seems to mirror the statues; the kings have, as Ned thought, “blind eyes staring into eternal darkness”, their swords are meant to “keep the vengeful spirits”, but it’s not clear why they are joined by a direwolf.

So, let’s discuss the Gate’s behavior and how that’s related to the promise.

1. Who are you: the first riddle you need to solve is the answer to this seemingly straightforward question, who’s the prince? How could you do that, you might wonder. Well, that’s the whole point of memorizing the vows.

The vows are made of 6 statements; on closer examination, however, you realize that there are 3 statements about opposing things related to the same topic: swords, kings, and behavior, which was the second thing that Aemon mentioned, consuming like fire (the Black Gate) and preserving like the cold (the statues).

The vows answer both riddles at once, the sphinx’s identity (who’s the prince) and how that’s linked to the nameless direwolf in Winterfell’s crypt.

• I am the sword in the darkness – the light that brings the dawn
• I am the watcher on the walls – the horn that wakes the sleepers
• I am the fire that burns against the cold – the shield that guards the realms of men.

Each pair of vows is a clue to solving each of the riddles posed by the Gate and by the Crypt, which explains why they come in pairs.

The door “wakes” because you’re “the light”, it lets you cross because you blow “the horn” by giving the right answer, and it consumes itself because you’re the shield “that guards”.

So, to solve the first riddle posed by the Black Gate (who you are), you need to consider the first two vows about the swords.

The point is that the best swords have names, like Ice and Lightbringer or Rhaella in the prophecy.

2. Then Pass. The answer to this riddle should be found in the second set about the Watcher on the Walls and the “Horn of Winter”.

This is about Kings, like the ones in the Crypt, Aerys, or the legendary Joramun. You must recall that “passing” was the whole issue in the legend, since the Night’s King was accused of making deals with the enemy, and ironically, he was defeated when the Stark allied with Joramun, who is seemingly also an enemy.

The promised prince prophecy seems to have the same issue as the NK legend, some names seem to have been either forbidden or forgotten.

3. Fire consumes, cold preserves. This riddle should be solved with the last pair of vows, the fire that burns against the cold – the shield that guards the realms of men. Aemon remembered this riddle while interpreting that Dany was “the one” because she had dragons, he was wrong.

The witch’s prophecy parallels the Black Gate’s riddle because they pose the same question: who’s the promised prince.

When she named the queen and king but not the “promised one” she posed the same riddle the Gate poses: who’s the unnamed character who promises to be a lot of things but never gives his name?

Quick summary before we briefly discuss Rhaegar’s behavior:

• The sphinx, a mythical creature made of three parts, is the puzzle we need to solve.

• In ASOIAF sphinxes appear in pairs. The PTWP puzzle can be solved considering 2 places different places: The Black Gate and Winterfell’s Crypt

• The Black Gate at the Nightfort and the statues in Winterfell’s crypt are both “sphinxes” that basically pose the same questions but behave in seemingly opposing ways.

• The Black Gate asks, “Who are you? As if not recognizing your face, it lets you cross when you promise you’re someone (even though you never give your name) and “consumes” itself.

• In Winterfell, the kings’ statues and their swords symbolize preservation (cold), since they both can be identified, but hold a missing piece: the identity of the direwolf.

• The Night’s Watch vows are crucial to solving the riddles:

• Each vow pair (“I am the sword in the darkness—the light that brings the dawn”) reflects dual themes of fire (consumption) and cold (preservation).

• The vows parallel the behaviors of the Black Gate and the crypt statues, suggesting an intertwined mystery about identity and purpose.

• Both the prophecy and the crypt leave the identity of one character, the “promised prince” and the direwolf respectively mysterious.

How can we solve the riddles?

• “Who are you?”: The answer lies in the first two vows about swords. The best swords have names, like Rhaella in the prophecy.
• “Then Pass”: Tied to the Watcher on the Walls and the Horn of Winter, hinting at forgotten or forbidden names.
• “Fire consumes, cold preserves”: This reflects the duality of destruction (fire) and preservation (cold), central to the song of ice and fire.

The pattern.

If you consider all the things Rhaegar did, you’ll see there was a pattern to the prince’s weird behavior:

• The first riddle is about swords; he announced he needed to be a warrior.
• The second is about letting someone who doesn’t seem to have a name pass, explaining why he crowned Lyanna after the KoLT episode.
• The last one, the “consuming” was telling his wife what he knew, unlike Ned.

We need to understand what the riddle truly is: a song that has two sides.

We know some things about the “song of fire”, but we know less about the other side because Ned ‘preserved’ things. So, while one side is about light and horns and consuming the other is about darkness and walls and preserving.

• Ned buried Lyanna in Winterfell, statue included, since, by his own words, she “was a Stark”. That we know of, no other woman was given that honor before. Naming Rhaella as part of the prophecy means something.
• He called Jon his bastard. We need to identify “the king”. Naming Aerys in the prophecy rules out all his cousins, despite what Melisandre believes.
• Soon before dying, Ned thinks that he should talk to Jon, but he never gets that chance. Who “preserved” the information Jon needs to know?

Now, even if you find the riddles and realize the vows are clues to solve it, you still need to actually solve the thing. So how can you do that?

That’s where you’ll need the song.

The Song

Since the Black Gate is located (or rather hidden) in a place that divides the continent in half marking the place where “a world” ends and another one begins, there’s got to be a point to crossing the gate, right?

Well, the point is that once you cross the Wall, you should listen to a story, Bael’s song, which is a messy thing to accomplish since the Watch has been killing wildlings only the gods know for how long.

Why that song, you might ask, well, because the song is the full prophecy.

The song’s point is to understand what’s hidden in the Crypt, which helps you solve both riddles.

A quick pause here before we discuss the song. When you examine the vows and what the Gate seems to expect from the sworn brothers, you’ll see that you identify yourself by claiming to be a few things, but of course, there’s no tangible proof of being those things.

The point is that you can only answer the question (who you are) by making those statements, which is the whole point of Joramun being the owner of the Horn of Winter: only the wildlings seem to know the entire prophecy and you can only get to hear it if, like Ice, you “preserve”.

It’s all in where you’re standing

Bael’s song tells the story of three different characters, Lord Brandon and Bael, who seem to be enemies, and the maiden, a girl they both weaponize for their ends.

When you compare the characters with the Black Gate’s riddle, you’ll find some things in common, Jon had to ask “which Brandon” was the one in the story (who are you), Bael vowed to teach a lesson and did so by never identifying himself (then pass), while the maiden disappeared (consumed) only to be found again with a baby (preserve).

a. The weapon.

In the song, the girl seems to be nothing but a tool, she’s the only character with no name, she’s involved in the cheating but whether that was voluntary or not is up for discussion and when she’s finally found she seems to have no value, since her son, not her, grows to be the lord.

The song was written by a deceiver so we must be alert because it’s filled with traps in which the way things are named is important.

The maiden is key to solving the first riddle, the one about the swords.

When the witch showed up in court, she announced that the PTWP would be born from the line of Aerys and Rhaella, which means that the then princess was more than “a nameless tool” like the song’s girl.

This part of the song is related to something that also seems to be missing in the Crypt of Winterfell, the women. Where are they?

Lyanna, who according to Ned has a statue because “she was a Stark” told Ned that love doesn’t change people’s nature. She wasn’t paying attention apparently. You see, women are expected to “change their nature” when they marry, a lion must become a stag, a fish a wolf, and so on.

Ice and Lightbringer are the same weapon: a mother.

The “swords in the darkness” in the Crypt are the mothers. Each time you look at a statue you see “a son”, and his blood comes from the line of a father and a mother. The Black Gate asks who’s coming as if the door didn’t recognize faces, which is related to the “trick” in the song, Bael and the maiden are “hidden with the dead”, meaning the son’s look doesn’t give away his identity.

In the Crypt you must bring light to see because like in the song, both parents are “hidden”, which is related to the sons being the blood of both parents.

The name Lightbringer is as misleading as the name Ice. To see in the darkness, you must bring the light, the sword doesn’t ‘glow’ as Melisandre seems to believe, it burns in battle, but of course, there’s no battle in the Crypt, because the mothers, (Ice), are making sure of it by keeping the sons “warm”.

So, to summarize, the Black Gate asks who you are because your face is as misleading as the swords’ names.

We’ll discuss this further as we solve the first riddle discussing Catelyn’s blindness, how she misinterpreted her role as Lady Stark, and how that’s related to Rhaella’s role in the prophecy.

Now, let’s talk about the characters with names and what those names mean.

b. The deceiver.

The basics of the story are that Lord Brandon calls Bael “a craven who preys only on the weak” which leads Bael to vow he’ll teach him a lesson. He goes to Winterfell using a fake name, Sygerrik, which means “deceiver” in the old tongue.

Here’s the moment when the person listening to the story is deceived.

Ygritte clarifies what the name means, but that’s not because she assumes Jon won’t know, but because that’s one of the main points of the story, the way things are ‘called’ has meaning.

Sygerrik means ‘deceiver’ in the Old Tongue, that the First Men spoke, and the giants still speak.” Jon VI – ACoK

The point isn’t what Sygerrik means, the point is what the name hides: a king.

As you might recall, what hurt Catelyn the most about Jon was her belief that her husband called him “son” for “all the north to see”, which of course wasn’t true, Ned called him “bastard” (and that’s a huge difference). But that underscores the source of her hatred towards “the son”, unlike her children, he looked like a Stark, so he had “proof” like all the kings in the crypt of being one.

Clearly, the way you look isn’t proof of your identity, as the Black Gates knows.

How are giants related to this, you might ask, well, Tyrion, who “saw more of the north” in Jon than in his siblings, gave him a piece of advice that made him look like a king as he opened a door while whistling a tune, as if he knew part of the song of ice and fire.

Lannister studied his face. “Yes,” he said. “I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers.” (…)

“Let me give you some counsel, bastard,” Lannister said. “Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armor yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” <br>

Jon was in no mood for anyone’s counsel. “What do you know about being a bastard?” <br>

(…) And with that he turned and sauntered back into the feast, whistling a tune. When he opened the door, the light from within threw his shadow clear across the yard, and for just a moment Tyrion Lannister stood tall as a king.” <br> Jon I – AGoT

Tyrion opening the door and the light making him look like a king is a huge part of the riddle, as we’ll see in the next part. When Ygritte gets to the name Sygerrik, she mentions the meaning of the name, but **the point isn’t the word’s meaning but the purpose: what the name is hiding, a person who went to Winterfell “long before he was king.”

So, we need to carefully consider the way people are identified in this song.

c. The reward

After an entire night of singing, the lord is so pleased by Bael’s talents that offers him to name his reward.

Bael asks for “the fairest flower that blooms in Winterfell”, and the Lord sends someone to cut a flower. But then when morning comes, he realizes the man disappeared with his only daughter leaving the flower on her pillow.

This trade between “the reward” and the maiden explains why you need to clarify a song to understand the other song. You see, Bael went to Winterfell to teach a lesson, not to prove he wasn’t what the lord called him: “a craven.”

The Crypt hides the reward in plain sight.

In the song, the lord thinks his line will end, so he sends the NW to look for the maiden and the thief, but they can’t be found. While he’s waiting to die one night he hears a sound and following it, finds the maiden with a baby on her breast.

When Ygritte gets to that point Jon asks “Bael had brought her back?” to which she replies, “No, they had been in Winterfell all the time, hiding with the dead beneath the castle”.

She then adds a “happy ending” in which the boy grows to be the Lord and a darker one in which Bael comes back years later leading an army, the boy doesn’t recognize him and kills him, and the maiden jumps from a tower in her grief.

The song’s ending is another deception.

You see, the story ends at the point where the person listening must ask if Bael brought the woman back, signaling they can’t see the magic trick, as you can’t see in the Crypt.

Bael is called “a craven” because he’s never alone, none of the “Old Kings of Winter” are. All the statues are joined by a nameless direwolf.

“Brave black crow,” she mocked. “Well, long before he was king over the free folk, Bael was a great raider.”

Jon VI -ACoK

The trick is that Bael and Sygerryk are two different people.

A quick summary before we get to the alternate endings:

• Bael’s song explains why women seem to be missing in the Crypt, they aren’t, they are just “hidden”. The women are Ice, the “keepers”. Ice and Lightbringer are the same weapon: a mother who keeps.
• In the story, the name Sygerrik is meant to deceive the person listening so they don’t realize that the man is hidden in plain sight, his face is the biggest deception.
• Bael is called “a craven” because he isn’t alone, like the kings in the Crypt he’s joined by a nameless direwolf: he’s the deceiver.

Now it ends

The song has 3 different endings and each of them matches one of the riddles we must solve to get the right answer.

Let’s go over the endings and how they are linked to the sphinxes and in the next part we can start solving them.

1. Who are you? – The swords. At face value, the lord is deceived by Bael’s name like Catelyn assuming that Ned called Jon “son” when he actually called him “bastard.”

This riddle is beautifully illustrated by Catelyn Stark and Waymar Royce, the stubborn ranger who wants to succeed. In the next part, we’ll examine AGoT’s prologue and the Legend of Ligthbringer, to discuss swords and their ‘nature’.

1. Then Pass – The promise – If instead of assuming that Bael is the perpetrator and Lord Stark a victim of his taste for music you examine what’s happening in the song in a different light, you get a different story.

When lord Brandon ‘calls’ Bael a craven, he seems to expect something, and Bael obliges. The Stark seems to be interested in what he’s listening to since he spends all night doing it.

When the moment of the reward comes, the Stark asks the man what he wants, recognizing their differences. When the singer asks for “the fairest flower” that “blooms” in Winterfell and the lord sends to cut a flower, you might think he didn’t understand what Bael meant, but it’s, in fact, the opposite.

That’s when you realize the Stark wasn’t deceived and more importantly, that they were both paying attention; anyone who knows the very basics of the wildling culture knows they steal their women, they don’t get them as “gifts”, because that, not their names, is proof that they are ‘brave’.

This is the clearer proof that Bael and Sygerrik are two different people.

On the other hand, when Bael asks for the flower “blooming” and the lord cuts a flower, that’s a lesson too; the flower only “blooms” because it’s kept.

We must assume that Ned was hiding something huge, so to solve the second riddle we’ll examine his fever dream, how it relates to the Legend of the Night’s King and where was the happy ending.

1. The behavior. – the reward. I mentioned earlier how Ygritte, or anyone telling the story, is meant to explain where the trick is since there’s no way you could get to that answer on your own. The same thing is expected with the name Sygerrik, you need to know the name has a purpose, otherwise you’ll miss the happy ending.

The reward needs some explanation too to understand the darker ending, meaning, where to find the promised prince, and how that’s related to the Crypt.

You see, Bael’s song ends when someone must explain the trick. The GoHH told the dragons to start looking, but that wasn’t the end because she never named the prince. When you consider the Black Gate, you see how the different ways the door behaves are closely related to some of the things expected from the person telling Bael’s song.

Ygritte told the story after Jon spared her life. The song was a reward for his behavior. The black brothers seem to have found a shortcut to get to the other side of the Wall just by carving the ice, but that doesn’t mean they found the answer to the riddle any sooner.

That’s the issue with the prophecy too, if, as Aemon believed, dragons are proof that Dany is “the one”, then the sole purpose of the prophecy was to prove that success means doing terrible things to get “a weapon” like all three characters do in the song if you just accept the story at face value, they lie, cheat and hide things to get what they want.

But that’s exactly what Tywin Lannister did over and over kill people, cheat and lie to prove who he was, and then kill more people or use rape to teach lessons. Does that make him “the one” too? What about the Watch? Cutting the ice and killing wildlings never got them any closer to the answer they were supposed to find.

When Jon is told the story, he asks a very reasonable question, who was the “Brandon” in the story? Knowing that could confirm the facts since the Starks keep a very detailed record of the kings and lords’ names and deeds that every Stark must learn.

Since Ygritte can’t provide a name (or facts) that aligns with what he knows about the Starks, he’s ready to disregard the whole thing, but that’s a huge lesson, names don’t always align with expected behavior. But who would know that Brandon “the daughterless” isn’t a Stark but someone who grew up in Winterfell, like Bael’s son?

The second point of the darker ending, the son not recognizing the father, was the point that Ygritte was trying to achieve, getting Jon to learn a lesson, killing someone just because they’re ‘different’ doesn’t make them a monster, but it can certainly make you one.

Finally, the last point of the darker ending is the maiden committing suicide when the son comes back with his father’s head on a spike; basically, the point where the “three heads” are identified and there’s proof to answer the question: who are you?

You see, the first thing we learn in the story, right in AGoT’s prologue, is that “dead men sing no songs”. If Bael died, the deceived lord died, and the maiden died, who’s singing the song?

Well, the deceiver.

You can find the answer in the Crypt because those Starks are all deceivers: the direwolf that’s sleeping with them is a nameless brother, the same nameless prince that the dragons were searching for.

• If you don’t have someone asking if Bael brought the maiden back, how can you possibly learn where the trick was? The trick is that “Bael” and Sygerrik are two different people with the same title: prince.
• If there’s no one asking which lord was deceived, how could you know this one wasn’t a Stark? If “the daughterless” isn’t a Stark, that means there’s a deception we need to uncover.
• If there’s no singer, how could you know?

You need “a door” to ask the right questions, a brother to answer them, and behavior, not names or faces, as proof.

There are two different promised princes and “a weapon”: siblings.

• If one of them is the sword in the darkness, then there must be someone bringing the light.
• If one of them is the “watcher” trying to learn what the trick was, there must be someone “blowing the horn”.
• If fire consumes, then cold preserves. There’s no Bael ‘the deceiver’ and there’s no Brandon “the daughterless”, but that’s what siblings are for.

There are two different promised princes, and neither of them is Dany. This is about kings, their “weapons” and their behaviors.

Jon put aside his wine cup and drew on his black moleskin gloves. “A pity that the sword that Stannis wields is cold. I’ll be curious to see how his Lightbringer behaves in battle.” Jon III – ADwD

That ‘other’ prince we’re meant to find “hidden with the dead” is Jon’s father and Rhaegar’s “promised” brother, “the head” he mentions in Dany’s vision, and he was the bastard until Aerys needed a weapon.

To summarize, at its core, the riddle is about:

The Dual Nature of Prophecy: The “Prince That Was Promised” prophecy is not about a singular hero but two distinct figures—a duality reflected in the themes of fire and ice, consumption and preservation, and light and darkness.

The Sphinxes: The Black Gate at the Nightfort and the statues in Winterfell’s crypt represent two sphinxes posing complementary riddles. They challenge us to answer who the promised prince is and how he’s related to the direwolf’s role in preserving the hidden truths.

Vows and Behavior: The Night’s Watch vows provide clues to solve these riddles, as they mirror the dual themes of the prophecy. Rhaegar’s behavior, particularly his seemingly erratic actions, reflects his attempt to solve them, which ties back to Ned hiding what he knew.

Bael’s Song is the full prophecy: Bael’s song is a tale of deception, hidden truths, and dual outcomes parallelling the cryptic prophecy.

The Identity of the Princes: The promised princes are Jon Snow and his father, the unnamed bastard son of Aerys Targaryen.

We need to reframe the PTWP as a search for not just “a savior” but for siblings whose roles embody the duality of the song of ice and fire, and most importantly, the significance of brotherhood.

Summary

This theory explores prophecy, history, and character’s behavior to get to an answer, who is the promised prince, the answer is there’s no one prince but two different promised princes.

Key Points:

1. The Riddles: The mystery surrounding characters like Rhaegar, Lyanna, Jon, and even Catelyn can be rooted in their behavior. The prince doesn’t come up as the monster that Robert claimed he was but rather as a tragic figure looking for answers. His biggest tragedy is that he found them.
2. The Sphinxes: when Aemon was reminded about the prophecy, he mentioned that “the sphinx is the riddle”. There are two sphinxes in the story, one of them is the Black Gate in the Nightfort, the other is the statues in Winterfell.
3. The key to the Gate’s riddle is the door’s behavior, symbolic of Rhaegar’s quest which started when he attempted to find “the one”. The gate “consumes” itself, when a brother answers a question: who are you? The answer isn’t a name, but a promise (the vows).
4. Rhaegar’s Hunt: his odd behavior, such as announcing he needed to be a warrior or crowning Lyanna as the “Queen of Beauty” is explained by his attempt to solve the Gate’s riddle, which in the story has nothing to do with people knowing the Gate exists, but rather understanding why the witch named Aerys and Rhaella but never named the prince. The point is that their prince didn’t have a name because he was born a bastard, and no, he isn’t Jon but his father.
5. The Crypt: in the Crypt, you seem to have the same issue as in the prophecy, while the kings and the swords have names, the direwolves don’t. The point in the crypt is that the direwolves who don’t have names either, stand for the younger brothers, explaining what Rhaegar found: a brother, the “head” he mentions in Dany’s vision.

Bael’s Song: The tale is a key metaphor for understanding hidden truths. The main points in the story, which is the full prophecy (including both sphinxes) are:

• It explains why women seem to be missing in the Crypt, they aren’t. The women are Ice. Ice and Lightbringer are the same kind of weapon: a mother who keeps.
• The point of Bael using the name Sygerrik (deceiver) in the story is to deceive the person listening since he never deceives the lord, he proves he’s “a craven” by hiding.

Bael’s darker ending is the answer to the riddles: the behavior. The different ways the Black Gate behaves are closely related to some of the things expected from the person telling the story, which is the point of the statues in Winterfell, tell a story.

A big lesson in the song is that names don’t always align with expected behavior. Who would know that Brandon “the daughterless” isn’t truly a Stark but someone who grew up in Winterfell, like Bael’s son who isn't a Stark either?

The duality of the two hidden princes, is hinted at by the NW vows, so they are the key to solving the sphinxes’ riddles:

• If one prince is the sword in the darkness, then someone must be bringing the light. Who’s the other dragon, the nameless prince? He’s Rhaegar’s half-brother and a recognized bastard. You can recognize Lightbringer because it burns in battle, not because it “glows” as Melisandre seems to believe.
• If one of them is the “watcher” trying to learn what the trick was, there must be another prince “blowing the horn”. Why was he recognized? Because Aerys needed a weapon.
• If fire consumes, then cold preserves. There’s no Bael ‘the deceiver’ because Rhaegar wasn’t a cheater and there’s no Brandon “the daughterless” because Brandon died childless, but that’s what brothers are for.

There are two different promised princes (“the bastard” and Jon) and “a weapon”: siblings.

In the next part, we’ll start the identity hunt in AGoT’s prologue to discuss “the swords” in the story, Ice and Lightbringer, and how blindness to the obvious is as dangerous as not knowing.

Since there’s a tinfoil hat theory on literally everything in asoaif, is there any theory which believes Kevan really was bought and paid for by the Tyrells? Or is Cersei the only person who believes that? 😂

I once heard someone say that Ned wasn't thinking clearly when he decided to bring Bran, Sansa, and Arya to the capital with him, and here's why:

Ned: (goes on about how King's Landing is a dangerous place) "The south is a nest of adders that would do well to avoid."

Also Ned

"I want to bring my children to the same place that I know for a fact is incredibly dangerous."

I can understand that Bran wanted to be a knight and that Sansa had to become accustomed to the South, but did he really have to bring them to the capital? He could've easily just dropped them off at Riverrun and/or the Eyrie. Locations in the south, where they have a family member ruling, would be perfectly safe. Sansa could learn how to perform as a proper lady at court and Bran could quire for anyone of the many knights in the Vale (most preferably his great-uncle the Blackfish). But no, instead, he decided to bring them along to the most vile and dangerous place in the 7 kingdoms, and that he knows is sketchy.

Seriously, what was he thinking?

Dany did NOT dismiss Quentyn because he's average looking and boring.

I keep seeing people repeating that and I know that even George kinda plays with this narrative. However, I feel that the written text doesn't support this. Dany dismissed Quentyn be aus he was TOO LATE and she was to marry that noble from Mereen for political reasons.

Dany takes Mereen seriously because she feels like it's her responsibility. She's not going to abandon the country like that because Dorne offers her an army. I am not even a Dany fan but she gets so much unfair criticism.

Like that, his heir can still marry Ned's daughter. He would put this in his will, that the betrothal is still up, but now with Edric*.

Ned would be regent for a long time, and likely to continue on being Hand of the King after Edric Baratheon came at age.

Sansa would be queen.

Stannis wouldn't be king.

Edit: * On second thought, it's a terrible idea to put the betrothal thing in the will, it makes Ned look terribly suspicious. I don't think that that part would go.

So this was a thought that struck me today in the shower. Both the BwB Movement and the Sparrow Movement evolved in response to the Wot5K’s devastating the Riverlands. The BwB starts as an effort to bring Gregor Clegane to justice before evolving into a guerilla army with support from both the Lords of the Riverlands and the smallfolk. With the Riverlands military either crippled or busy protecting further invasions by Tywin the Brotherhood defends the smallfolk from the Brave Companions, the Mountain’s Men and Broken Men preying on the vulnerable. We see this directly in ASOS, Arya 39, when the BwB intervenes to save a Sept under attack by the Bloody Mummers. They save three Brown Brothers, and these holy men host the BwB in a nearby brewhouse for their heroism.

The Sparrow Movement started later than the BwB, but developed for similar reasons. Armies were devastating the Riverlands, and countless holy men and women were slaughtered by Lannister, Karstark and Bolton forces. In order to save the smallfolk the High Sparrow leads a delegation directly to King’s Landing with the bones of martyrs that had been slaughtered in the Wof5K’s. The Crown promised to extend protection to the Faith of the Seven if they agreed to lay down their arms, with this oath violated the Sparrows intend to seize control of the Faith of the Seven through their numbers and set things right in the Riverlands. They’ll do this by either withdrawing their support to the Iron Throne until armies are sent to protect the Faith in the Riverlands, or the Faith is given permission to rearm. Cersei in her foolishness agrees to the latter, while simultaneously exposing to the High Septon just how corrupt the Royal Court was.

With both the BwB’s and Sparrow’s emerging from the Riverlands as a reaction to the War of the Five King’s, I think it’s appropriate to ask what these two movements think of one another.

On one hand the BwB is one of the few forces in the Riverlands that have prioritized the protection of Septs, and the Smallfolk that depend on them. They’re heroes to the Smallfolk, and they find support nearly everywhere they go. They even count Septons among their supporters, like the Septon of Sallydance we hear about. They’re willing to risk their lives to protect holy men, as we saw with the Battle of the Burning Sept. On the other hand the BwB is lead by known Red God worshippers, with Beric Dondarrion and Thoros of Myr setting such an example that smallfolk begin converting to the Red God. When Jaime enters the Riverlands he hears reports of nightfires burning in villages across the Riverlands.

What is the High Sparrow’s reaction to a group of pagan fire-worshippers doing a better job protecting the Faith of the Seven than the Iron Throne? Does he respect and tolerate them for their chivalry and honour, or does he see them as a threat to the souls of the faithful because their religion is spreading? The other question I have is that the High Sparrow strives to protect the smallfolk, he seems to be the kind of local notable that the Brotherhood would reach out to and offer to help.

How would a conversation between Beric Dondarrion and the High Sparrow have gone, what could they tell him about Ned Stark before he heads off to King’s Landing that would impact how he behaved. The High Sparrow talks about how Ned Stark’s blood defiled the Great Sept of Baelor, could the Brotherhood have told him that Ned Stark was an honourable man who wouldn’t have plotted treason? How would exposure to the far less fanatical faith of Thoros of Myr influenced the High Sparrow’s view of the faithful of the Red God? If the Brotherhood without Banners commit a Second Red Wedding and wipe out House Frey and House Lannister in the Riverlands how will the High Sparrow react to the Riverlands rising in rebellion against the Iron Throne?

We don’t know much about the High Sparrow, our only perspective on him is Cersei who is certifiably insane and finds herself easily outmaneuvered by him. I think speculating on how the High Sparrow sees the Brotherhood without Banners is a good way to explore his character, because the High Sparrow doesn’t once mention growing R’hllor worship in the Riverlands or the BwB. Even when bringing up the Raid on Saltpans he doesn’t mention the BwB, despite the rumours that he had joined the Brotherhood without Banners. It’s a notable omission he makes in his discussions with Cersei, and I think it could mean something important about this character.

Also this speculation is based off of the High Sparrow not secretly being Howland Reed. If we assume he’s Howland Reed then speculating about this gets even stranger.

I’m reading ADWD for the first time and in the beginning it was an amazing book. I was pleasantly surprised when I read AFFC and just like I hoped the excellent writing continued in ADWD. However, I’m on page 675 (a bit more than halfway in) and the last few chapters were really bad. It started with a Theon chapter titled ”The Turncloak”. Horrible chapter. I’m okay with slow-paced chapters but this was so incredibly boring. He literally did nothing but walk around winterfell. I guess it paints a picture of Theons life at winterfell, but he could of achieved ved the same thing in two pages. Furthermore, Grrm contradicts himself in the chapter. On the first page it says ”They were well stocked with food and drink” but 7 pages later it says ”With so many mouths to feed, their stores could not last for long”. I know, a small mistake. But for me that just made the chapter even worse. We also get some lore about Brandon, Ned’s brother, and Lady Dustin. Usually I love the bits of history spread out across the chapters, but this just felt really forced and I couldn’t make sense of it. Lady Dustin was in love with Brandon but Lord Rickard married him off to Catelyn. Then Lady Dustin marries Lord Dustin but he goes off to war, which he himself wanted, and dies. Ned brings his horse home and tells Lady Dustin that her husband is burried in Dorne. Now, I can understand why she hates Rickard but why tf would she hate Ned. Yes, he didn’t bring Lord Dustin’s bones back but that is just an incredibly petty reason to hate someone. All of it just seems extremely far fetched, forced and waste of potential. Grrm could of maybe used Lady Dustins hate towards Ned to reveal more about Ned’s relationship with Ashara Dayne. For example: Lady Dustin loved Ned but he wanted Ashara. Or something like that idk. All in all one of, if not the, worst chapter so far.

After Theons chapter we get to see Tyrion and Daenerys. Tyrions chapter was not bad but not great either. And I’m okay with that. (i’m not saying every chapter has to be amazing) It brought the plot forward. Daenerys chapter however. She finally meets Quentyn Martell, something I’ve been excited for. But their meeting was such a let down. From my perspective Daeneryes has always been interested in Westeros. She often talks with Ser Baristan about the lords and Westerosi history. The problem of finding allies in Westeros is also a reoccurring topic in her chapters. But when she meets Quentyn, a real powerful lord from Westeros that wants to help her, she just brushes him off. This might be the most realistic outcome of their meeting. But for me this was such a let down. I don’t know what I expected but it was not that. I thought Dany would be happy to have someone from Westeros to brief her about the situation there. But no, she seems completely uninterested. They will probably speek more in the other chapters, but still.

I really really hope this is just a temporary thing. Because I absolutely loved this book up to now and it would be a shame if it kept on this way.

I am only in half of ADWD, I am new in this fandom and reddit in general so I wonder who are your top 5 favourites, single most hated character and how would you rank books? For me:

1-Dany

2-Tyrion

3-Robb

4- Bloodraven (he is one of my favourite in Dunk Egg because of his dry humor but I wrote him here only because he exists in ASOIAF books as well since I ask based on ASOIAF books, if I didnt mean ASOIAF books, he would be higher on my list. Even though he has limited scenes and is 100+ years old tree, he still keeps being coolest thing.)

5-Melisandre

Books:

1-ASOS with no doubt

2-GOT

3-ADWD

4-ACOK

5-AFFC

My most hated is Victorian, that is a pity he is such a dumbass.

House Stark

We see House Stark through the eyes and actions of Ned Stark. As a result, the vast majority of fans end up believing Ned Stark to be representative of the Stark family. But the thing is … Ned Stark is a major aberration from the traditional Stark values. Hence the fan misunderstanding of what House Stark is all about.

The slogan of House Stark is Winter is Coming. And that has been the central guiding philosophy of House Stark and its leaders.

During Winter, the North is all but uninhabitable. If Winter lasts for a year, or years, it means mass starvation and a plummeting of the North’s population. It is the duty of House Stark to minimize the impact of Winter and also to pull the North back to a position of strength after a harsh and terrible winter. It is also imperative for House Stark to recognize that no matter how good things might seem, Winter is Coming. It’s always coming.

For this reason, a “Good Stark” carries the following virtues:

(a) Harsh (some might say … stark) personality

(b) Indifference to Southern politics and affairs

Ned Stark for example lacked the “hardness” of traditional Starks, and was willing to take large risks just so to avoid the murder of children, including Jon Snow, Daenerys, Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen. Ned Stark also traveled South to serve as Robert’s Hand, married a Tully from the Riverlands, and marched South during Robert’s Rebellion. The same applies to Robb who also marched south after his father’s imprisonment. Robb further deviated from Stark values by marching south during Autumn, the time of year when it was most imperative for Starks to stay in the North, bringing in the harvest, stockpiling food, and preparing for Winter.

Better Stark examples would be e.g. Alaric Stark who had a reputation for being hard and (again) stark. Or Cregan Stark who refused to march during Autumn and only marched south during Winter, after all the harvests were collected, with men who were more than happy to die in battle because that way they would not have to burden their relatives back home and so more of the women and children could survive the harsh winter months (or years).

So, the clans refer to their leaders as, the liddle, the wull, etc. not, say, the hugo for the wulls. Same pattern is followed by the Ironborn e.g. The Greyjoy. So it seems to be the way that first men tradition works.

So why do they refer to Ned as the Ned, not the Stark? Is it because he is dead?

How would you rank the 5 Main books?

My Personal Ranking:

1. A Dance with Dragons - I know it gets a bad rep, but I really enjoyed reading it. It contains the Jon Con and fAegon Storyline for wich I am really excited and the entirety of the North Plot. Its also Jon Snow best book as a POV IMO. And he is my favourite Viewpoint and Character. The Dany Story is seriously underrated with the only issue being some slight pacing issues and the names being difficult for first time Readers. Tyrions second half is a drag too tbh.

2. A Feast for Crows - Its one of the more grounded books and has IMO some of the strongest character writing. Its also the best example of GRRMs anti war message. Cersei is a delightful POV and its fun hearing people talk about realizing how dumb she is, after expecting her to be smart. Jaimies Journey IP to his last chapter is awesome as well.

3. A Game of Thrones - definetely the most focused book. Its a lot simpler, while still being intricate in its politics. Reading the POVs and their thoughts during simpler times feels nice on a reread. Neds chapters are a gem and I truly dont understand why people think he is dumb. He is pretty smart. He is thrown into a shark tank and KNOWS how to win easily. The things is he doesnt WANT to use dishonorable means, not that he CANT. Also the flashbacks to the tower of joy and all the R+L=J hints are great. And we mostly see King Bobby B through his eyes.

4. A Storm of Swords - It is very close with AGOT and only loses due to Nostalgia and how much I love Ned and Robert. The entire war efforts, viewing Robbs reign through the eyes of the Kings Mother, instead of through the King, wich is a nice subversion. Also red wedding... also purple wedding. I admit its probably the OBJECTIVELY best book in the series, but the post is about Personal Preference.

5. A Clash of Kings - My least favourite due to the pacing issues. Jons chapter with Quorin are interessting, but him riding with the NW for so long, makes it Jons worst book. Dany has the same problem. Just like their storys run parallel, so do their issues it seems. Dany has the Highpoint of the House of the Undying, but otherwise its her weakest book as well. For Tyrion its his best or secondbest book. The intrudoction of Davos is great too.

The worst chapters in the series IMO are Aryas as she travels through the Riverlands. They are important to the themes of the story, but drag for to long. Sansa is great throughout the entire book tho.

He is one of the clan chiefs of the North’s mountain clans who have joined with Stannis to wage war on the Bolton-Frey alliance.

I present the following quote:

“Aye, men are dying. More will die before we see Winterfell. What of it? This is war. Men die in war. That is as it should be. As it has always been….I want to live forever in a land where summer lasts a thousand years. I want a castle in the clouds where I can look down over the world. I want to be six-and-twenty again. When I was six-and-twenty I could fight all day and fuck all night. What men want does not matter. Winter is almost upon us, boy. And winter is death. I would sooner my men die fighting for the Ned's little girl than alone and hungry in the snow, weeping tears that freeze upon their cheeks. No one sings songs of men who die like that. As for me, I am old. This will be my last winter. Let me bathe in Bolton blood before I die. I want to feel it spatter across my face when my axe bites deep into a Bolton skull. I want to lick it off my lips and die with the taste of it on my tongue.” (ADWD)

I’m not sure if there’s anything else that needs to be said.

Winter is coming, warned the Stark words, and truly it had come for them with a vengeance. But it is high summer for House Lannister. So why am I so bloody cold? - Tyrion VII

I've lost a hand, a father, a son, a sister, and a lover, and soon enough I will lose a brother. And yet they keep telling me House Lannister won this war. - Jaime IX

Cersei's meltdown is also evident from his conversation with Jaime. She is grieving but I think if she had a POV she would have the same feelings for being forced to marry.

Are they finally feeling the weight of being Lannisters or they realise their House's actions and ambitions are taking a toll on them like they are goods to be thrown on a back of horses and carried away to be sold? I would understand if it was a single individual but it seems to be happening to them almost simultaneously.

Thoughts?

Which are some of your favorite introduction lines? I’ve selected a few ones that stand out the most to me:

The morning air was dark with the smoke of burning gods. (Davos I, ACOK)

This line is incredibly evocative and sets such a grim tone. Goes hard asf.

The eastern sky was rose and gold as the sun broke over the Vale of Arryn. Catelyn Stark watched the light spread, her hands resting on the delicately carved stone of the balustrade outside her window. Below her, the world turned from black to indigo to green as dawn crept across fields and forests. Pale white mists rose off Alyssa’s Tears, where the ghost waters plunged over the shoulder of the mountain to begin their long tumble down the face of the Giant’s Lance. Catelyn could feel the faint touch of spray on her face. (Catelyn V, AGOT)

So beautifully written.

An east wind blew through his tangled hair, as soft and fragrant as Cersei’s fingers. He could hear birds singing and feel the river moving beneath the boat as the sweep of the oars sent them toward the pale pink dawn. After so long in darkness, the world was so sweet that Jaime Lannister felt dizzy. I am alive, and drunk on sunlight. (Jaime I, ASOS)

This is probably my favorite, it encapsulates Jaime so perfectly. I'm alive and drunk on sunlight

Sobbing, Sam took another step. (Sam I, ASOS)

This is likely the most underrated chapter in the series. The psychological terror is executed masterfully

The woods were full of whispers. Moonlight winked on the tumbling waters of the stream below as it wound its rocky way along the floor of the valley. Beneath the trees, warhorses whickered softly and pawed at the moist, leafy ground, while men made nervous jests in hushed voices. Now and again, she heard the chink of spears, the faint metallic slither of chain mail, but even those sounds were muffled. (Catelyn VII, AGOT)

Grrm was cooking something else with catelyn's chapters.

He drank his way across the Narrow Sea. (Tyrion I, ADWD)

11 years without Tyrion and a whole ass book of Cersei obsessing that he was hiding in the walls. Meanwhile, he was DRINKING the entire time. Lol

She dreamt she sat the Iron Throne, high above them all. (Cersei I, AFFC)

So cartoonish. Cersei's chapters are so fun to read.

The prophet was drowning men on Great Wyck when they came to tell him the king was dead. (The Prophet, AFFC)

Perhaps the hardest of them all

Beneath the burning sun of Dorne, wealth was measured as much in water as in gold, so every well was zealously guarded. The well at Shandystone had gone dry a hundred years before, however, and its guardians had departed for some wetter place, abandoning their modest holdfast with its fluted columns and triple arches. Afterward, the sands had crept back in to reclaim their own. (The Queenmaker, AFFC)

This is my first post here so apologies if I am off topic or if I misuse something.

I am curious about trading with the free folk. We know that the Watch itself does some amount of trading. Some trade happens as gifts, like the gifts given to Craster and some trade happens with a barter system. We also know that some smuggling activity happens.

Here, I am doing some brainstorming about what the Free Folk needs and what the Free Folk can sell, which might attract traders from the South. I will be assuming the Watch is benevolent but strict. The Watch does not oppose the trade goods which might help the Free Folk sustain themselves but they would not allow any trade goods which might give the Free Folk the opportunity to arm themselves or to build a stronger civilisation. I also try to borrow real world physics, which might not always hold in a magical world.

So, what does Free Folk need?

Iron ore: The land beyond the Wall does not have any iron ore. So, they are in desperate need of iron, but iron trading is forbidden for apparent reasons.

Grains: They have shorter summers. As a result, they probably do not have suitable weather to grow wheat. I guess the only staple grain they can grow is barley and even barley is a tossup. At cold climates, it grows slowly. It can tolerate nightly frosts to some extent but it reduces the yield.

I believe they can also grow potatoes. Potato yields much higher calories per acre than barley so maybe they can cover the plots with straw, grass hay or leaves and branches to reduce the frost damage. The issue with potatoes is that they are harder to store than grains, because they have a lower caloric density and they don't tolerate subzero temperatures well. Per YoungGriffVII's comment, they do not have access to potatoes.

Of course, some of this analysis is not valid for the Thenn Valley but it is just one spot in the entire North.

In short, they are in desperate need of any grains.

Salt: The Free Folk raises goats and sheep. They probably graze on whatever the elks or reindeer graze and having wargs around would certainly make shepherding easier. They also raise pigs. But they have to kill them as the winter approaches. They can keep some to raise new flocks next spring on grass hay but it is limited. So they need large amounts of salt to preserve the meat.

They can get salt by boiling the seawater but it would require an exorbitant amount of wood, especially if all you have is copper/bronze or maybe brass kettle. You can't make a proper firebox with this material and most of the heat would be useless. I don't think the temperature is high enough for the natural evaporation of the seawater, thus pool evaporation would at best be limited.

So, they would need a lot of salt.

Linen: We know that Free Folk has "small clothes", but the only available material to make these is wool. I am sure they would have gotten used to it but still, some linen would be helpful. I believe the Watch might have reasons to oppose raw linen trading, which would make producing ropes easier, but selling them final products would definitely reduce the quality of the ropes they can manufacture.

For the same reason, the Watch would vehemently oppose the trade of hemp, in whatever form.

Mules: We know that the Free Folk has some horses, but it is unclear whether they got them from killed rangers or they raised them. We know that horses do not naturally thrive in cold climates. While this is not canon, the watch might have had a "only stallions north of the Wall" policy, to prevent the Free Folk from raising herds. Furthermore, they don't have access to iron for quality horseshoes. Thus, mules are better draft animals than horses. This is also quite appealing to the Watch as wildlings themselves cannot reproduce the mules.

What does Free Folk have?

Ores: We know that they have bronze, which means they can mine copper and tin. While this is not canon, they might have access to zinc and lead as well. This does not break the lore in any way, i.e., they couldn't advance their civilisation only with zinc and lead.

Obsidian: While Davos smuggled for obsidian, I always thought it was stupid. If it were in high demand, they could have mined it in Dragonstone, so it can't fetch high prices, definitely not high enough prices to risk their necks.

Pelts, hides and fur: This is canon information. The land beyond the Wall is the only place with snowbears, direwolves and mammoths and they have a lot of elk, reindeer and they can raise herds of goats, sheep and pigs.

Gems: We know that the Free Folk gave up their wealth, i.e., "Gold and silver, amber, gemstones, carvings, anything of value" as they pass the Wall. It is unclear whether they got their gold and silver through trade, scavanging shipwrecks or mining. Gems however are more abundant than we are made to believe. Volcanic activity increases the prevalence of some of them and glacier activity might help expose veins. The vast forests might be a good source for amber as well. Thus, there is ample reason to believe that they have access to a lot of gemstones, which might fetch high prices south of the Wall.

Timber: Free Folk can cut down trees, especially if they can borrow castle forged axes. I believe the Watch would insist on a land-lease policy, i.e., Free Folk can have new axes, as long as they bring their old dulled axes back, to make sure that they won't reforge these items or hoard them to use as weapons. After some preprocessing, the timber can be loaded onto ships.

Mutton: They can raise an excess amount of animals with their superior shepherding skills, i.e., wargs, and sell them. The amount of mutton they can store is limited to the amount of salt they have and they have to kill the excess animals before the winter anyway.

To sum up, the available canon information states that they have copper, tin, obsidian, hides, gemstones and amber. Them having zinc and lead is not against the canon. Finally, arranging a timber and mutton trade is within the existing canon.

Thus, establishing trade posts to sell grains, salt, linen and mules for the stated ores, gemstones, timber and mutton looks practical and promising. Giving the Watch a commission through this trade would help the Watch to have larger resources against the Free Folk. This way, the Watch would flourish just as well as the Free Folk, negating any advantage the Free Folk might have.

Considering how vast the land beyond the Wall is, it feels like this is a lost opportunity for the North, to be even richer than the Westerlands.

Do I miss something? I would appreciate any comments on how sensible my initial assumptions are and how the Watch might behave.

So GRRM has confirmed that Stannis will burn Shireen. It is implied that Melisandre may be in possession of Davos's missing bag of fingerbones, his "luck." I don't believe I've seen this theory elsewhere, but: what if Mel creates a glamor of Davos in order to convince Stannis to burn Shireen?

While not perfect, Davos has a strong moral center and has repeatedly been the "good angel" on Stannis's shoulder, his conscience. Davos is a right proper lad. But if "Davos" were to cave and admit that burning Shireen may be his king's best hope, that may cause Stannis to cave and commit the deed. Who could Mel glamor to resemble Davos? Perhaps his son, Devan, who is at the Wall and has become infatuated with Mel.

Just a quick theory about the potential and purpose of a Davos glamor. I can't really think of any other reason Mel would have for making a glamor of Davos, unless GRRM plans for yet another Davos death fake-out in the future.

After she entrusted the parchment to the maester's care, Catelyn went to the sept and lit a candle to the Father Above for her own father's sake, a second to the Crone, who had let the first raven into the world when she peered through the door of death, and a third to the Mother, for Lysa and all the children they had both lost. -ASOS, Catelyn I

What did she mean with the Crone part of her prayer?