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Hi all! This seems like an absurd question, but here it goes. I’m tapering for the Tucson marathon, my fourth. I ran a 38:45 10k a few weeks ago, and have a 1:27 half PR and a 3:15 marathon PR, though I feel in shape to beat that. This is my first marathon cycle with Pfitz. I followed the 18/70 plan almost to a T, and felt great for almost the whole block. But now that I’m finishing my first week of the three week taper, I’m realizing that I usually cut my mileage more aggressively than this. I was supposed to do a 17 mile LR today (did 16) but normally I’m doing 12-13 at this point. Next week I’ve got 13, but I normally will do like, 8 max the week before. I’m definitely recovering, so I’m wondering—should I just trust this plan since it’s been working for me the whole cycle? Or should I taper more aggressively. I feel like most pfitz taper questions are about the taper being too aggressive. Lol.

For reference, my 3:15 marathon was Eugene last April. I felt good most of the race, but I think I was really in shape for something closer to a 3:10. It’s possible I over tapered for that.

Race Information

• Name: Media Maratón del Asfalto
• Date: November 30, 2024
• Distance: 21km (21.350 garmin)
• Location: Encarnación, Paraguay
• Website: https://www.eventrid.com.py/eventos/pmc/media-maraton-del-asfalto-2024
• Strava: https://www.strava.com/activities/13019283014
• Time: 1:44:16

Goals

Splits

Background

I'm a M26 former* cyclist who was running before cycling competitively 4 years ago. Never ran more than 10k before last year, and really started to get serious into cycling training like 2 years ago. 2023 came around and in my off-season I wanted to run 21k "for funsies" to a pilgrimage town nearby, a lot of people go walking, since I was pretty well trained for cycling, I gave it a shot. Quickly realized it was harder than I expected, even though I was running >6:20 pace for the whole distance. Didn't run again for a couple months, and even if I ran it was just to mantain some aerobic fitness, cycling was still my main sport. This year, after a lackluster cycling season (even though I was training over 15 hrs/week), I saw a high school friend run a Half Marathon 4 months ago, and I really wanted to give it a shot, but with a full training cycle.

Training

I took this "beginner" Half Marathon plan and followed it to the letter, not specifically because I didn't know exactly what I was doing, but because I could injure myself way faster than a real beginner would thanks to my cycling background. Training was going super well, gave myself a couple weeks of easy running before seriously taking my 12 week journey. Had a 5k race on Sep. 27 (21:00) and a 10k on Oct. 27 (41:02 10k and 20:03 5k) and everything was going smooth. On Oct 30, right before a 30min tempo run, literally a block away from home I crashed against a car that suddenly stopped in the middle of the street, cut my right index finger pretty bad (required 6 stitches) and also banged my right knee. Thankfully the X Rays showed no fractures and I just needed to rest for a couple days/weeks. Started PT for my knee right away and was really anxious to run again, rode my bike again after like 2 months to mantain some aerobic fitness. Started officially running again on Nov. 17, and kinda rushed back to "normal" training (literally did a 35 min tempo run 3 days after, thank god for Vaporflys). Since I missed the most important workouts and long runs of the cycle, I kinda wanted to compensate for my missed training and last sunday ran 16k, had to stop at 14.5k because it was quite hot, haven't drank anything and didn't bring any food (real genius) and started to seriously doubt my race predictions. Also started to get some discomfort in the groin area of my left leg (idk what exactly but approximately where the femur is connected to the pelvis). Still with a couple days to go I was confident I could finish the race and accomplish what I was set to do.

Pre-race

This race is the only half marathon in my country which is run on a saturday evening, at this time of the year it's quite hot and the weather was kind of uncertain if it was going to rain or not. But in the end there was no rain, but quite hot (30º and approx 80% humidity when we started). I started eating more carbs 2 days before and I packed 3 gels for the race. My original plan was to run as close as possible to the 1:30 mark, but given that I hadn't trained for 2.5 weeks, I started drifting my goal. Eventually I settled for a best case scenario of a 1:35, then a 1:40, and ultimately a 1:45. My pelvic pain was there but during warmup and such didn't really pay it much attention. At first, I wanted to run the first 10k or so at 4:40, and then start pushing up the pace, still with my lack of endurance for running it was a big question mark. Got positioned very close to the start line so it wouldn't be difficult to start my pacing right away. Someone gifted me an extra gel and took it right before the start.

Race

We started precisely at 7:00 pm, there were over 1500 runners and I was at the front, still since there were 5k and 10k categories, it was a bit chaotic since some were going way faster than others and such. I then realized was going a bit too quickly before we even hit 1k, then I tried to stay at 4:40 pace for quite a while. Up to 8k everything was going quite smoothly, even though my pace was drifting a bit all over the place, but still holding up very well. The course features 2 short hills, the first time was quite manageable since it was just at 10k and I recorded my second fastest time in 10k. Between 10k and 15k I had to slow down at a water point because I missed a bottle and also my shoe was a bit loose. Had my gels at 5k, 10k, and 14k instead of 15k since it was quite hard already. At 15k I noticed my pace was drifting significantly and just embraced I was going to run a bit slower the next kilometers and I still had a long way to go. At every water I would sip a bit and then just pour the rest over my body to compensate for the heat. 16k was the last km I did without significant stops and I was really starting to hurt, I felt like my left leg was going to cramp at any moment, also trying to acommodate my Chest HRM became loose and I really wasn't in the mood to put it right again, so I just took it out and tucked it under my shorts, my HR reading after that is totally erratic. The first full stop came at 17k, walked for 200m and then started running again, second stop at just before 19k, final and last stop just before 21k due to a severe side stitch. I really doubted I could complete the race between kms 15-17 since I was starting to really drop my pace and was full of fluids and gels. But still somehow managed to finish just shy of 1:44.

Post-race

I don't know how to begin how pleased I am that I managed to finish my first half marathon in not an outstanding time, but still happy given my limited running experience and my lack of training due to my crash, also being so close to losing a leg and now being able to run. After crossing the finishing line I was just empty, I really gave everything out there. Before this race, I was dreaming of trying the full marathon distance in 2025, but now I'm convinced to focus on a couple HMs first lol, hopefully a sub 1:35 or even 1:30. Had a couple beers after a good meal and a lot of water, but now I'm focusing 100% on recovery. Also not so long after, my whole left leg started to hurt real bad. I think it is due to a weak glute muscle, I have all the symptoms of ITBS and also my outer hip when doing certain movements. ATM I really can barely walk, I'm booking a massage session for tomorrow and will just focus on resting for a week or two, and then starting incorporating running again mixed with biking so to not lose so much fitness.

Made with a new race report generator created by u/herumph.

Race Information

• Name: NCR Marathon
• Date: November 30, 2024
• Distance: 26.2 miles
• Location: MD
• Time: 3:27:38

Goals

Splits

Background

35 M, I've been running for about 10 years, only past 2.5ish with consistent/decent mileage (1000 miles each in 2022 and 2023, previous few years were more like 500-600, even less before that). In the first few years running worked my way up through the distances with just the goal of finishing, all the way to my first marathon in 2019 where I had the classic fall apart after mile 18, finishing in 4:12:38. Looking back at it, mainly a training issue, I didn't have the mileage (peaked at maybe 40 mpw) nor the experience to properly pace myself. Since then, have steadily focused on better training and setting PRs in the 1 mile, 5k, 10k, and HM. In the past 2 years I have done Pfitz 12/47 plans for HMs and chunks of his other 5k/10k plans, leading to a 1:40:21 in 2022, and 1:39:28 in 2023. 1 mile PR has been 6 even the past 3 years, 5k last year was 20:10, and 10k last year was about 42:30.

Training

I used Pfitz's 18/55 plan, with some additional base building prior to starting the plan, (~35 mpw 8 weeks from plan start, 40 mpw for 4 weeks into the plan). I had a rough target of 3:30 for this upcoming marathon based on last year's PRs, but for the first few LT/MP workouts had to run them considerably slower due to heat/humidity (eg. Mid-September 16 w/12 at MP of 8:20-8:25 at 73 F, 71 dew point).

For this block, key workouts/races (once weather cooled off):

10/8: 11 w/7 @ LT - ran these 7 mi at an average of 7:12, was hard but doable.

10/19: HM PR of 1:36:27, with a 1 week taper (40 mpw that race week) on a hilly course

10/26: 18 w/14 @MP averaging 7:58

10/27: 5 mi race at 6:53 (my legs definitely held me back here but expected that given the workout the day before)

11/13: 10K solo time trial: 42:22 (10ks are literally the worst)

Final training paces, noting these all dropped by about 1 min/mi as temps went from 90-50:

Easy: 8:45-9:45

GA: 8:30-9:30

Long/endurance/med long: 9:30 -> 8:00-8:15

MP: ~7:50-8:10

LT: ~7:10-7:15

VO2: 6:30-6:40

Pre-race

Based on a combination of workouts/races/paces/HR data, I was very confident in 3:30/sub 8. What I was unsure of was how the race would go past mile 20. My early long runs were hard, but the last 19 miler and 20 miler felt good, and both finished around an 8:00 using HR. Runanalyze was predicting a 3:23 or so, but over the years I've learned I am much happier with a negative split than a positive one. Since a massive PR was pretty much guaranteed, I wanted to stick to a conservative goal and learn what I could do at the end of the race. I knew I had the speed, but wasn't sure I had the distance.

I picked this race because it's flat and fast, and being the end of November would be cold (most of my PRs have been set in December, I seem to do best in about 35-40 F weather). Maybe overshot this a bit, as it was about 25 F and windy at race start. Opted to keep my long sleeve on over the tank top for the start, because I was freezing.

Nutrition plan was pretty simple, Gu at the start, then every 4 miles, packing one extra in case I wanted it around 23. Handheld with 5 scoops of gatorade, that I planned to top off with water around 7-8 and 18-20. Did all of my long runs this way and never had issues.

Race

First mile was a decent downhill, not too much noteworthy other than making sure I didn't get ahead of myself.

2-8: Settled into a small group, around mile 3 chatted with the guy next to me and ran with him until about mile 7. Pace through here was slower than intended, but we had a pretty decent crosswind/headwind on the way out and I had wanted to keep the beginning easy. These miles felt good, HR was where I expected it, a little behind schedule but not too concerned. At mile 7 took off the long sleeve, though I had been considering it for a few miles, so probably should have taken it off sooner. I was definitely sweating despite the cold and wind.

8-13: With me stopping to take off the long sleeve my buddy and I split up, and once I got back into it I wanted to get back on track. Starting pushing the pace closer to 8:00 but was still holding back a little bit, combination of wanting to not push too hard through 13 and dealing with the wind.

13-20: Having turned around, the wind was now slightly tail (but still cross/shifty) and there was a slight downhill, so focused on cutting my predicted finish back to 3:30 but still holding back a bit to make sure I had enough for the final 10k. Still felt strong through these miles, legs were starting to feel some of the pain, but nothing different than what I felt in training.

20-23: Focused on maintaining pace, hurt was settling into the legs, but still felt strong aerobically and was convinced I wasn't going to bonk at this point.

23-26.2: Kept trying to push as much as I could, counting down the mile markers. Once I could see the finish line, probably half a mile left, I was able to kick even more, especially seeing my wife and kids shortly before the finish line.

Legs were screaming through these final miles, had maybe the slightest tinge in my left hamstring, but otherwise still no concerns that I would finish at this pace. At this point I stopped checking my watch, aside from the occasional “where is the mile marker??? oh still .15 to go...” and focused on effort level.

Another thing to note, given the small size of this race and my negative split, I was essentially running solo from 8 to the finish. I train solo and have done a number of solo time trials, so while I would have preferred people to run with, I did have experience running hard solo that helped make this not miserable.

Post-race

Final time was 3:27:38, first half in 1:46:14, second in 1:41:24. Obviously thrilled to have nearly perfectly executed the plan, and also grateful that I had been correct in thinking 3:30 was conservative – I would have been crushed if the wheels fell off on this one. Nothing too eventful post race, had to walk about a mile to the car which was almost as awful as the last 3 miles of the race, but probably good for the legs.

Reflecting on the race and training block, I feel pretty confident going forward in general – over the past few years I have done enough races and training plans to have a better sense of what I can do, how I prefer to run races, and this year have a better sense of RPE on top of a few years of HR training. My main last question was how I would handle the distance of the full, and while I certainly could have gone out faster for more even splits, I now have a data point on how it feels when it goes to plan.

With this block I also feel a little more confident in attempting longer distances at comparative paces to my shorter races – I held back on being aggressive as historically there was a big drop off from my 5k/10k paces to HM, but setting a 3 min HM PR on a mini taper, hilly course, 55 and sunny day while training for this full makes me believe the consistent mileage is helping that speed translate.

My long term goal is likely a BQ, though that's definitely a few years out. With small kids even getting this 18/55 block in was a challenge, and I know I would need higher mileage for a BQ.

Next year planning on focusing on short distances again and eek out some more incremental PRs, this December will attempt to finally break 6 in the mile (4th time's the charm, right?) and 20 in the 5k. No concrete plans for another marathon at the moment – my wife and I have maybe settled into alternating years of who gets preference for their training, and she put up with my mileage this year so I'll give her a break next year lol.

I will say too that the untapered solo 10k time trial was harder than this marathon, cementing my opinion of the 10k being the absolute worst distance to race.

Made with a new race report generator created by /u/herumph.

A place to ask questions that don't need their own thread here or just chat a bit.

We have quite a bit of info in the wiki, FAQ, and past posts. Please be sure to give those a look for info on your topic.

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Context: I'm primarily a trail runner currently trying to resolve what feels like a fairly significant muscle imbalance between my left and right legs (primarily hips, quads, and outer glute). In addition to unilateral strength work that has been helping to sort it out, I've been thinking a lot about how road and trail camber stresses each leg and affects muscular development.

Initially I thought that doing out-and-back style routes would help alleviate this, but most of the training that I do is vert-heavy, with shorter runs usually covering at least 1,000 feet and longer runs featuring sustained climbs and descents of 3,000+ feet. This means uphill is engaging glutes and hamstrings more while downhill is engaging quads more. I'm now curious if there's any information on whether the camber of the trail surface coupled with the slope angle and direction of travel changes how each leg is engaged. For example, does going uphill stress the raised leg more significantly, while downhill stresses the lower leg more significantly, is the lower leg stressed more in both directions, or another combination? FWIW, I think I feel the raised leg being utilized more going uphill and the lower leg being utilized more downhill, but that's very anecdotal.

This study seems to suggest more force applied to the lower leg but I suspect this was likely on flatter terrain (I don't have access and am only basing that off of the summary and an article that references this research). I was curious if anyone knows more on the mechanics and whether road/trails of a particular camber could be targeted to help even out such an imbalance.

Race Information

Invesco QQQ Half Marathon

11/28/2024

Distance: 13.1

Location: Atlanta, GA

Website: https://www.atlantatrackclub.org/

Strava: https://www.strava.com/activities/13002572902

Time: 1:45:26

Goals

| Goal | Description | Completed? |

|------|-------------|------------|

| A | 1:45:00 | *No* |

| B | 1:48:05 | *Yes* |

| C | 2:00:00 | *Yes* |

Splits

| Mile | Time |

|------|------|

| 1 | 7:35

| 2 | 7:35

| 3 | 7:34

| 4 | 7:55

| 5 | 7:36

| 6 | 7:27

| 7 | 8:06

| 8 | 8:24

| 9 | 8:25

| 10 | 8:00

| 11 | 8:40

| 12 | 8:34

| 13 | 8:20

Training

After a 42 year break, I started running in May. I couldn't run 2 miles in 22 minutes when I started. I trained hard with tempo runs, hills, and intervals as well as long runs and mountain trails. I had completed 10K in less than 50 minutes, 13.1 miles in less than 1:49 and ran a marathon on 11/9 in 3:57.

My training approach has been to repeatedly complete training blocks modeled on the Hanson's Marathon Method. The plan was to complete a block and run this half marathon and then complete another block and run the Paris marathon.

But...

I won a bib for the Tokyo Marathon on March 2nd so Paris took a back seat. Tokyo's a lottery event with a 5% success rate. Paris is open to anyone that registers timely. Then I won a bib for Marathon Mont Blanc which has a lottery with an 8% success rate. Paris is now a distant third.

Then I got bored and signed up last minute for a marathon on 11/9. So I was coming into this race 19 days post-marathon. My training for the last three weeks has involved more resting than running.

Pre-race

I had to get up at 3:30 for the two hour drive to the race so I was doing this on less than 5 hours of sleep.

I tweaked my glute putting on my shoes so sitting down, standing up, or stepping onto a curb were painful up until the gun went off. I wondered if I had torn something and shouldn't run.

I ran about a half mile pre-race and it was definitely hurting but not too bad. I thought I might have to take it really easy and put any time goal out of my mind. I was willing to accept just finishing in 2:00 hours rather than going for 1:45.

Race

I put the glute out of my mind (got my ass out of my head) and I started, Within a quarter mile I was feeling good...and fast. My pace was next level compared to what I had done since I started running in May.

My Garmin had previously told me my Max HR was 185. At mile two it was reporting 194 and I felt the pace was sustainable for at least a few miles and I was feeling good. I attributed the high HR to the fact that I was using a Polar arm-band HRM for only the third time. I focused on running smooth, maintaining the pace, and minimizing the exertion. It was working.

I had a big positive split but I set post-high school PRs for the mile, two mile, 5K, 5 mile, 10K, 15K, 10 mile and half marathon. People say negative splits are best because they haven't had the pleasure of setting a PR at every single distance in a race from mile 1 to the finish.

My goal was 1:45 but I started in Group B and the 1:45 pacer was in Group A which started two minutes ahead of Group B. I caught the 1:45 pacer before mile 7 which means I was on pace to run 1:43 or better. I stopped a few times at water stops and to take a gel and lost the 1:45 group but caught them again each time. But my early pace caught up with me by mile 9 and I lost them for good. The last couple of miles was a struggle but I could still crank out miles at a decent pace.

I missed the 1:45 goal by less than 30 seconds, 19 days after running a sub-4 marathon. I'll take it.

Up until this race, I had plateaued a bit. I had been getting faster but I couldn't run any distance at a sub-8 minute pace. Well that changed today. I ran the 5K, 5 mile, 10K and 10 mile at a sub-8 minute pace. That was real progress in my book.

Post-race

I was spent post race. I nearly fell asleep driving home and went right to bed. My legs were really sore; worse than after the marathon.

Next day, I'm feeling great. Even the glute is back to normal. I'll do a 10 miles slow run later today.

Made with a new [race report generator](http://sfdavis.com/racereports/) created by u/herumph.

What's everyone up to on this weekend? Racing? Long run? Movie date? Playing with Fido? Talk about that here!

As always, be safe, train smart, and have a great weekend!

Race Information

• Name: Perry Rotary Turkey Trot
• Date: November 28, 2024
• Distance: 5k
• Location: Perry Township, OH
• Strava: https://www.strava.com/activities/13002046025

Goals

Training

Back on November 9th, I ran the Indianapolis Monumental Marathon in 3:13, achieving a lifetime goal of qualifying for Boston (and pretty safe at that with a more than 6 min buffer) -- the other lifetime goal I'd set quite some time ago was to try to run a sub 20 5k at some point. During that marathon cycle I'd started to notice my VO2 workouts coming in at faster than 6:25/mile pace, and actually starting to dip into 6:1X range for shorter reps. I definitely started to think that sub 20 was within the realm of possibility if everything lined up right. I run this Turkey Trot every year, and my course PR is a modest 21:29. My actual 5k PR is a 20:48 TT, though I split a 20:36 during my 41:30 10k PR in late October. Most my times plugged into the Vdot calc indicated I should be right around 20 flat. My watch, of course, negged me saying I could only do a 20:12.

I recovered incredibly fast from Indy, running 41 miles the week after, and 46 miles last week. I did 2 workouts in the last week - last Wednesday I did 5x600 averaging about 6:13/mile for the reps. On Sunday I did a Mona fartlek and was seeing some 5:XX paces on the 60 sec and shorter reps.

Only wildcard would be the weather, with a messy system scheduled to move in overnight.

Pre-race

I mostly lucked out with the weather. We did have snow overnight, but it only stuck to my car - roads were just wet as temperatures hovered just above freezing. A northwest wind blew around 10 mph which would make the closing stretch a headwind - I factored this into my plan. The course has 2 uphills, and starts with a decent downhill. Both uphills are done by mile 1.5 so the goal was to hammer the first mile with the downhill, and try not to use all that buffer up by the halfway point, then try to lock in around 6:25/mile and hold on as long as I could. The good thing is it's a certified 5k course so never have to worry about it running short.

This is a pretty big local Turkey Trot usually with about 2,000 runners and plenty of fast local kids show up. There wouldn't be any problems with having company around on this one, which to me was a very good thing - I didn't want a quasi-TT again.

Warmup was 3 miles, with a 5 minute tempo in there followed by some strides.

Mile 1

As planned, I shoot out really fast on the downhill - in fact I split the half mile at just 2:57. The first uphill I actually just increase the cadence and zoom up it fairly well. There were plenty of people around but mostly avoided getting boxed in even as a lot of the fast starters started to fade off before this mile was out. Saw the 6:12 for mile 1 and that was about exactly what I had hoped.

Split: 6:12

Mile 2

The other bump comes right before 1.5 - it's a quick 6% grade hill. That ate into my pace a little bit, but was followed by an equal downhill so surged down that as best I could. Around here was when I just started to gradually pass people every 15-20 seconds or so. This was great, and helped keep me focused. Breathing was still comfortable (well, for a 5k anyways) through this entire mile which was a very nice surprise. I was hoping to hold off suffering until the last bit. Rest of this mile after that hill combo was flat, and I just mostly locked in. The wind was swirling a bit, but we made 4 turns so it varied in impact.

Split: 6:27

Mile 3 + last bit

I mostly kept cruising until around 2.5, then the effort started to get a little more intense. Shortly after this a very low level desire to puke started arising in my stomach.. oof. But it wasn't flashing warning signs and it just hovered around the edges for now. At 2.6 we turn west going down the final straightaway to the finish line, and that wind is a 10+ mph headwind the entire way. I just kept my eyes focused forward, picking off random people every 25-30 sec or so. I think without that I might have faltered a bit. Becoming a hunter helped me lock in. Things started to really hurt with a quarter mile to go, and by the time I hit 3.0 that puke feeling was suddenly getting a lot more urgent. But I wasn't about to care, because I saw my average pace on my watch was 6:23 and needed to hammer it as much as possible. Only a little over a tenth to go and made a quick turn to the left, up a little bump of a hill on a driveway to to the finishing chute, saw the clock in the distance hit 19:50 and just tried to sprint as best I could, wanting it so bad at that point, and crossed the line at 19:57. This is a new record for age grading for me at 75%, and the age adjusted time is 17:17.

Split: 6:26, 6:05 pace (last 0.14)

Post-race

Veered to the rail, thought I was gonna puke for sure but somehow kept it down and then exulted - finally! I didn't start running until my mid 40s, I'm 52 now and just hit my first sub 20 5k ever. Don't let your dreams be dreams! The path was winding and had ups and downs but we got there eventually. Consistency pays off.

I also enjoy that for every single distance on my Garmin I'm now faster than the race predictor.

With a BQ and a sub 20 5k... guess I need some new running goals for 2025 now.

Splits

Race Information

• Name: Crown Point Flying Turkey 5k
• Date: November 28, 2024
• Distance: 5k
• Location: Crown Point, IN
• Website: https://runsignup.com/Race/IN/CrownPoint/FlyingTurkey
• Strava: https://strava.app.link/B7ozK5vGTOb
• Time: 18:24

Goals

Splits

Background

I realize it's kind of a meme to take a local turkey trot this seriously, but 1) I'm more writing this to reflect on my year of running, and 2) this one was important to me for reasons that will become clear later.

I'm a 21 year old college senior. I ran middle school cross country and mostly hated it, topping out at a 12:21 3k, then moved onto tennis in high school. I then spent 5 semesters almost entirely sedentary before realizing that I go to college in Colorado and should be taking advantage of that, and made my 2024 New Year's resolution to run a half.

I ran the Higdon beginner plan for a half on April 7th. Training mostly went well; I dealt with knee issues for a couple weeks that went away when I started running trails more, and I followed the plan for the most part but had a propensity to make excuses and delay runs. The night before, there were wind gusts above 70mph across the Denver metro, howling loudly enough that I couldn't sleep; gusts were ~40mph sustained for the race, with us for the first third and in our faces for the last third, and I paced poorly to boot, meaning that I ran miles anywhere from 8:00 to 10:54, and finished in 1:59:06. I'd finished, but it absolutely did not go to plan and I was massively slowed by factors out of (and in) my control.

Next, I set my sights on the Pikes Peak Marathon. I wanted to run it once before I perhaps had to move after my senior year. I knew it would be challenging, but I bought the race package with the insurance so if training went poorly I'd fake an injury. You must run a qualifying race for the Pikes Peak Marathon. One way to do this is to run 20 miles in under 4:30. The fact that this took me three full attempts on consecutive weekends (was too slow the first time, DNF'd with foot pain the second time) perhaps should've been a sign, but I succeeded and signed up anyway. From there, I ran a self-made plan with a lot of trail miles and zero speed work, building up my endurance and trying to run as many mountains as possible. Training through the summer went well, and I continued to gain endurance. I ran the Barr Trail twice (once in ~10:30 and once in ~7:30) and was generally feeling ready to take on the race... until the top of the mountain got several inches of snow the night before the marathon and it was shortened to a little over 15 miles. I did run that race well (2:45:03; 164th place) but was still unsatisfied by only getting to run half.

In total, my races up to this block were:

• 22:55 5k
• 49:32 10k
• 1:59:06 HM
• 48:05 10k
• 22:13 5k
• 21:15 5k (two months later)
• 5:37:56 trail marathon (4500ft gain)
• 2:45:03 PPM*

The 21:15 5k (in early August) was:

• at elevation
• on a hot morning
• on a dirt trail
• hilly
• in crappy shoes.

I decided to put in a 5k block for when I was home for Thanksgiving, and aim to have one goal race this year that went remotely to plan. My goal was sub-20.

Training

I followed the last 8 weeks of the Pfitz 20-40 mpw plan, but added some mileage by running 7 days per week. I didn't like the number of times I made excuses to delay a run in previous blocks, so I just decided to run every day to mitigate that.

Training went very well; I was basically able to hit goal paces every workout, to the point that I started increasing goal paces a few weeks before race day. There isn't too much interesting that happened here. I was mostly doing ~3:55 on the 1k interval workouts. I ran a 42:49 in a tuneup 10k (at altitude, and still with crappy shoes) and 11:53 and 11:17 in the 3k time trials. Heading into the race, I knew I was likely to succeed at my sub-20 goal, and after I ran a combined 19:24 in my 5x1k workout at altitude, I knew sub-19 might be in the cards as well.

Race

I had to start my phone early to put my gloves back on before the race started, and because of this I had no idea what pace I was running the first mile. When I ran my tuneup 10k, my first 300m or so were at 5:30 pace before I checked myself, so this was a bit scary. At the one-mile mark, though, my pace felt tough but sustainable, so I was happy with it. When I cropped my Strava activity later and saw 5:37, this aligned with how I felt.

I started in about 15th, mostly behind some groups of local high school runners. I was passed by a few runners in the first mile, but knew that my pace certainly wasn't too slow, so I held steady.

From miles 1-1.5, I started picking off some high schoolers who had started hot. One stuck with me for a couple minutes, but eventually dropped off, and I slipped into 10th. I checked my phone and saw 5:56 pace for the second mile, which got me excited because it felt sustainable.

At mile 2, I got within 100ft or so of a pair of runners wearing orange, and decided to try to catch them before the end of the race. Pretty soon, though, I started feeling gassed, and my pace dropped by a few seconds. They must've been slowing down more, because I continued catching up, but I was running ~6:10 pace for my third mile through the halfway mark.

Once we got back to the park entrance that we started at (under a half mile left), I started picking up the pace again. I ended up with a 6:06 third mile and was able to kick the last 0.1 in 5:12 pace, finishing just a couple seconds behind the runners I was trying to catch, so I definitely left some in the tank during that third mile. I estimate that I left ~0:10 on the table, but am still enormously happy with that race. In contrast to my previous two goal races, it feels great to be nitpicking, rather than broadly criticizing.

Post-race

In hindsight, I could've run the third mile/fourth kilometer faster, but it's hard to be too mad about a 2:51 5k PB in which my mile splits were my 1st, 3rd, and 4th fastest miles, and I beat all but one member of my former high school's cross-country team. I positive split, but it was a much smaller positive split than any previous 5k I've run.

Next up: a full road marathon, most likely with a half along the way.

Happy Thanksgiving, all.

Made with a new race report generator created by /u/herumph.

Race Information

• Name: Turkey Trot 5k
• Date: Nov 28, 2024
• Distance: 5k
• Location: Rhode Island
• Time: 17:33

Personal Info

• Male, age 32, 6'4" & 205 lbs

Goals

Splits

Training

I was hoping to beat my 5k PR of 17:56 this fall, which was set back in like 2017. Some prior context is that I'm a regular basketball player who plays multiple nights a week in a men's league, so I'm not a very high-mileage runner. I set a 1-mile PR this past June by running a 4:51 in a track meet, then took it easy for a few months before starting some more systematic training around September-ish. I did a couple earlier races this fall that let me gauge my fitness:

• 10/27 - Cross-country 5k in 19:04. I'd done this race before several times and knew that this race was at least 30 seconds slower than a flat road 5k, maybe more.
• 11/10 - Road 5k in 18:03. This let me know that I was improving and in range for my PR. I went out quickly in 5:35 for the first mile, then just couldn't hang on, especially since it was a smaller race and I had nobody directly in front of me for the last 3/4 of a mile or so.

Some key workouts: shortly before my second race, I did 8x800 meters on the track with 1:30 walking rest, averaging 2:47 per 800 (5:36 per mile). Then, less than two weeks ago, I did 5x1k on the track, averaging 3:29 per 1k (5:38 per mile). Anecdotally, I found the jump from 800 reps to 1000 to be fairly challenging, even with less overall volume.

Race

Weather wasn't great, about 40F and steadily drizzling at race start, but I'm just glad the rain wasn't heavier. I anticipated running positive splits, hoping to hold on get under my 17:56 PR (5:46/mile pace). This was a good-sized race, so I was hopeful I'd have a fair amount of people around me the whole way.

I went through mile 1 in 5:27, which was quicker than expected, and simultaneously encouraging and sobering. I knew I would slow down a bit, but didn't feel like my effort was too crazy and I had just banked nearly 20 seconds. In my head, my goal was to hold steady at goal pace for the second mile, which would've put me at 11:13 or so. I came through mile 2 at 11:04 for a 5:37 split, and was hurting but knew that I had banked almost 30 seconds, so I just thought to myself, "6:00 pace from here on out will do it, just don't blow up." I was struggling a bit and dry heaved at one point not long after mile 2, but felt I wasn't slowing down too much. Final stretch, kept the legs moving, kicked as much as I could, and came through with a chip time of 17:33 for a very big PR.

###Post Race

Feeling quite pleased with setting such a big PR, especially now being over 30 and as a bigger runner (205 lbs on race morning) that balances another sport and runs low-ish mileage. I wonder if I could've run slightly faster with more even splits, but honestly feel like even with the positive splits, I ran a pretty good race. Given the difference between my mile and 5k PR, I'm always running a little quick to start the race, and the times I've tried to even or negative split, I felt like I left something out there.

Hi everyone, I have no idea how to describe the issue I am having!

For context, I am female, 30, and I’ve been running recreationally for about 10 years. I am an EA running coach but seems I can’t figure myself out.

I focus on the marathon distance, my PR being 3:23 last year. I’m about to start working towards 3:15 when I run London again in April.

Over the years I’ve done a bit of speed work, I run a sub 20 5K, and would like to do more speed work as I work to improve my marathon time.

I run into a problem when it comes to speed. My cardiovascular system doesn’t seem to have an issue but my mechanics can’t seem to hack it.

I was running on the track last night but my legs feel like they’re trying to catch up with my body, as if I’m about to trip over or do an extra step. I find it almost impossible to maintain good form and mid to forefoot landing, this only happens when I start running below 6:30 min/miles. The result is a heavy heel strike and terrible running economy. And I just physically can’t accelerate.

The same speeds on a treadmill seems OK, it’s mainly when I transfer outdoors.

I can’t pinpoint what is causing this. Is it strength, plyometrics or something biomechanical? I.e. a muscle imbalance.

TL:DR my limbs feel like they aren’t attached to my body when I run fast and I can’t seem to keep up with myself.

A place to ask questions that don't need their own thread here or just chat a bit.

We have quite a bit of info in the wiki, FAQ, and past posts. Please be sure to give those a look for info on your topic.

Link to Wiki

Link to FAQ

Race Information

• Name: Richmond Marathon
• Date: November 16, 2024
• Distance: 26.2 miles
• Location: Richmond, VA
• Website: https://www.richmondmarathon.org/
• Time: 3:17

Goals

Splits

Background & Training

This is my third time posting in this sub, and while the mods keep removing my updates (third time’s the charm?), I’m endlessly thankful for the support and advice I’ve received here. You all helped me through this journey, and I hope this one sticks.

This marathon marked a big comeback for me. I started running again in April after recovering from a labral tear in my hip that had me sidelined since January. The injury forced me to rethink my approach to training entirely. I’ve since lost a bit of weight, improved my nutrition, and stuck to a consistent PT and strength training routine. Early on, I leaned heavily on spinning (8–10 hours) and trail running was the only way I could build volume without pain, and I kept it in my routine even after transitioning back to roads.

Choosing the right plan was a challenge. I originally considered Pfitz 18/55 but worried my base wouldn’t be strong enough to start safely. Instead, I followed the BAA Level 2 plan, which offered a more conservative mileage progression, but I still averaged 43 miles/week, while leaving room for cross-training. I also liked the plan’s incorporation of workouts into long runs—a feature that helped me mentally break up those daunting 16–20 mile efforts.

My training focused on heart rate rather than pace, especially during the summer heat and humidity, since pace felt unreliable on trails and in tough conditions. I worked hard to dial in my effort and relied on this approach to guide my workouts. Racing during the build also helped me mentally and physically. I hit PRs in the 5K twice (21:17 in August on a hot, hilly course and 20:47 in September on a warm, flat course).

The biggest confidence boost came four weeks out, when I ran a half marathon in 1:30 on a course with over 900 feet of elevation gain and even set a 5K PR mid-race. This half helped me finalize my marathon strategy. I decided to aim for a conservative start at a 3:22 pace to leave room for a push in the later miles, while focusing on effort and staying controlled. My goal was clear: a BQ with a buffer that might help me get accepted.

Pre-race

I used a carb-loading calculator to aim for 430g/day over three days. My husband joined in solidarity, which made it more fun. We stayed downtown near the start, and I woke up at 4 a.m. for coffee, a bagel, and sipped Nuun Endurance while getting ready. I felt calmer than my first marathon but still a little jittery. 

Critically I wanted to get a final bathroom stop before the race and lines at the porta-potties were massive. I took my Maurten gel while waiting, made it just in time, and dashed to the corral without doing my usual warm-up drills. I ended up with the 3:25 pace group, figuring it was a good spot to start conservatively before speeding up.

Race

The start was electric, and I took off with the 3:25 group. Their 7:40 splits surprised me, but it aligned with my 3:22 plan so I figured I would stay with them for a bit. Aid stations were chaotic, so I pulled ahead after mile 4 to make fueling easier. I broke the race into fueling chunks, taking gels at miles 4, 8, 12, 16, 20 (caffeinated Maurten), and 22. This gave me ~50g carbs/hour which was solid but something I think I’ll aim to increase next time.

I kept reminding myself to stay controlled and focused on good form. Before I knew it the halfway point flew by, and I still felt strong. The windy bridge around mile 15 ended up being my favorite section, thanks to trail training that made the incline manageable. I paced with groups for wind cover, which kept me focused. Flat Coca-Cola from an aid station near mile 16 gave me a surprise energy boost, and the crowd support was amazing.

At mile 22 I planned to take my final gel, but things got a little messy where the marathon and half marathon courses overlapped. A half marathoner crossed over to the marathon side of the course and stopped dead in front of me when I was approaching the aid station, and I narrowly avoided a collision. I delayed my gel to mile 23 and tried to pick up the pace. My heart rate was steady, and aerobically I felt good, but my legs felt jello-like and struggled to turn over faster. Still, I pushed hard and soaked in the crowd’s energy on the downhill finish, a little nervous that I’d fall in front of the crowd because of my jello legs. I crossed the line in 3:17 with about an 8-minute BQ buffer and a massive PR!

Post-race

Richmond’s post-race party was fantastic—pizza and Tito’s vodka for the win. Later, we toasted with champagne and celebrated with my in-laws over a nice dinner.

What’s next? I’m eyeing a spring half to work on foot speed (to maybe tackle that weird leg disconnect) and a fall full. Current contenders for next fall are: Twin Cities, Marine Corps, or Wineglass. If you’ve run any of these, I’d love to hear your thoughts!

Big thanks to this sub for all the advice and support—you’ve been incredible.  (Mods, if you’re reading this, my next PR is dedicated to you… if this post survives!)

Made with a new race report generator created by u/herumph.

There was a thread recently about the popularity of turkey trots and a discussion around why there weren't more marathon length turkey trots. This jogged a memory for me.

In her book The American Marathon, Pam Cooper chronicled the history of marathoning. In the early years, she noted that many races coincided with holidays - and one such example was Thanksgiving.

I was curious, so I went back to the book and did a little further research about marathons on and around Thanksgiving. You can read the lengthy article here.

The short version is that there have been three major marathons run on Thanksgiving over the years:

• The Yonkers Marathon, the second oldest marathon in the country, was held on Thanksgiving for most of its first decade. There was a break from 1918 to 1935, and its first year back, it was held on Thanksgiving. After that, the date was shifted.
• The Detroit Motor City Marathon was founded in 1963, and until 1968 it was held on Thanksgiving Day. It moved to a new date in 1969, and this race would later be taken over by the Detroit Free Press.
• The Atlanta Marathon was held on Thanksgiving Day from 1981-2009. After a year off, the marathon was moved to October from 2011 to 2013. At that point, it was cancelled, but Atlanta Track Club later took over the Georgia Marathon and renamed it to be the new Atlanta Marathon (in February).

Yonkers and Detroit were both from another era, before marathons were mass participation events. But (the original) Atlanta Marathon existed in the current era, and it attracted around 1,000 participants in its hay day.

News accounts of the decision to move the race off Thanksgiving noted a desire to increase participation beyond those levels, as well as to eliminate the five hour cutoff time that had been enforced. In order to get volunteers home to their families for the holiday, the course was closed after five hours - which limits the accessibility of the race for many more casual runners (and presumably depresses participation).

The date change didn't help with the popularity of the race, though.

Atlanta Track Club also hosted (and still hosts) a half marathon on Thanksgiving. At its peak (pre-COVID), the race attracted 8-9,000 finishers. Recently, there have been closer to 5,000 (with another 4,000 or so running the 5k).

Personally, I'll be running an 8k tomorrow morning. Plenty of time to run and get home before the dinner preparations are under way.

But - given buy in from a sufficiently large local running community - the history of the Atlanta Marathon (and the Invesco QQQ Half Marathon) suggests that a longer distance turkey trot is certainly possible.

Race Information

• Name: Philadelphia Marathon
• Date: 11/24/24
• Distance: 26.2 miles
• Location: Philadelphia, PA
• Website: https://www.philadelphiamarathon.com/races/marathon/
• Time: 3:08:06

Goals

Splits

Training

37F, this is my 9th marathon, albeit with a nearly 10 year gap between numbers 5 and 6.

I took a few days off from running after the Montréal Marathon in September (you can check my post history for the race report and my training plan, but the tl:dr is I tried to run a marathon shortly after my friend died and it did not go well). I then took it very slow and easy for the next two weeks. I still did not feel great mentally and was hesitant to push it so didn’t do too much speedwork this training cycle. If my pace slowed because I suddenly didn’t want to run fast anymore or I started crying halfway through a run, I just kinda rolled with it. This was a challenge for me because I’m an extremely intense, competitive person but I was motivated by never wanting to feel like I did during that race ever again. I also went to therapy and started meditating again, plus took time off from work. Eventually, I started feeling a little better and began to focus on Philly.

At the beginning of November I ran a half marathon time trial, using the course for a local race. This was mostly to check my mental fitness. Day of, there were 15- 20 mph winds but I’d heard that Philly was windy too so decided to go for it. I was aiming for 1:30, but during a 4 mile section of nonstop headwinds my pace dropped to 7:30/mile. I was tempted to give up but instead at the turnaround I found another gear and threw down a series of 6:30 minute miles to the finish. My time was 1:30:05, which was a huge confidence boost. 

I entered into the taper feeling healthier than I had a few months ago. Unfortunately, a week before the race, my partner declared he was leaving me for someone else because I was still too sad all the time. Fortunately, nothing fuels me quite like spite. 

Pre-race

I flew into Philly Friday night. On Saturday I picked up my bib as soon as the expo opened. No one else was there, so it was very quick and easy. I don't ever do a shakeout run so instead wandered around the city a bit and looked at the sights. I ate delicious donuts and got catcalled a lot by strangers- the former helped my bruised ego a lot more than the latter. I also watched Rocky because when in Rome, but also I wanted to remind myself that trading my boxing career for running marathons was the right call, as my chosen sport no longer includes getting punched in the face. When I told myself this again during the race, it actually did help but YMMV. 

I fell asleep at a reasonable hour on Saturday, then after dreaming of running the race all night, woke up at 4:45 am to actually run the race. This was by far the biggest race I’d run so that definitely contributed to my nerves. It was about 40 degrees at the start, which is perfect racing weather. I chose to wear shorts, gloves, and a long sleeve shirt, plus a sweatshirt I planned on ditching at the start. I’d worn Superblasts for my last race but my ankles hurt for days afterwards and then I lost a toenail, so I swapped them out for Endorphin Pros. This was the right call.

I was staying less than a mile from the start so walked over. I saw a number of interesting looking people doing interesting things at that hour but managed to keep my focus. A couple people wished me good luck, which was lovely.

I’d repeatedly been warned to get to the start early due to security lines. At 5:45 am, there was not a single other person in line. I used the porta potty (no line), dropped off my bag (no line), then hung out at the warming tent where I just kinda sat there and stared into space for awhile. Honestly, I think it was beneficial. About 20 minutes before the start I decided to use the porta potty again and suddenly the lines were monstrous. I was still waiting when the elites started so I dashed into corral B, only for the start to be delayed a couple more minutes so I probably could have made it. 

Race

I was running with the 3:10 pacers (they were amazing and perfect) and it was very crowded for the first few miles. I detoured to a porta potty at the first aid station then quickly caught back up. I tried to stay on the outside edge of the group because one guy kept taking selfies and I wanted no part of that and another guy kept madly dashing from one side of the road to the other for unknown reasons.  I thought about asking him at the end what his mileage was but didn’t want to be rude. I am still wondering this, though.

Aid stations were not as much of a shitshow as I’d feared and I stopped at most for water. At least once per race I forget the word for water and get Gatorade or whatever instead. This is entirely my own fault, the Philly volunteers were wonderful. Shoutout to the volunteer at the last aid station who watched me drop three cups of water in a row then reassured me I was doing great. I needed that.

I keep hearing that the first 10 miles of the marathon should feel easy. I don’t think I’ve ever felt “good” or confident during a race, ever, at any point, including before I actually start running. Usually I feel like I’m just barely hanging on and the wheels could fall off at any moment. That being said, I really tried to relax and enjoy the experience. I had people to run with and the weather was perfect! The crowds were great, there were excellent signs (“you could have just gone to therapy” was a favorite) and there was lots of cool things to look at! I was particularly fascinated by a group of very enthusiastic furries and the number of aid stations that offered booze (at least 4, by my count). 

I live in a very hilly area so I barely noticed any uphills during the race. However, there were a few pleasant downhill sections during the first half. There was a steep downhill section heading into Manayunk and I became convinced that we had to run back up it but we in fact did not. 

Mile 16 was where it all fell apart last race but this time I was still hanging on. No cramps, no injuries, no mental breakdowns. My goal was to stay with the group until mile 20 then pull ahead. So at the Manayunk turnaround, I started to speed up. It wasn’t awful. I kept going. At a certain point I realized there was in fact no looming uphill (apparently this is why people look at the course map ahead of time) and really decided to haul ass for the remainder of the race. I was picking off other runners, only half felt like I was going to die, and doing my usual bargaining with myself (only 3 more miles. 3 miles is your easy run! This is easy!) all the way to the finish.

I briefly cried after crossing the finish line, which seemed to startle the photographer. Then I got my medal (obsessed with how it actually rings) then walked slowly and painfully back to my Airbnb. A couple strangers congratulated me on the race and one guy offered to give me a ride which I politely declined even though my legs were really tired.

Post-race

Three days out, I’m much less sore than I have been in previous races. In my last race, I started out too fast then crashed and burned and felt terrible for the last 8 miles, but this race I felt fine all the way to the end and had no problem speeding up. So that makes me wonder how much quicker I could have run. A year ago 3:08 seemed unattainable, now I'm thinking how close I can get to 3 hours. I've been feeling fine at ~65 mile weeks, and now that I suddenly have a lot more free time in my schedule, maybe I'll increase my mileage over the winter. I do have access to a treadmill for snowy or icy days.

I have a half planned in March (which I am racing because I want that sub 1:30) then Boston in April (which I am not racing because I want to enjoy the experience). Not sure what else I’ll run this year but probably another fall marathon. Open to suggestions!

Made with a new race report generator created by u/herumph.

Race Information

• Name: Berkeley Half Marathon
• Date: November 17, 2024
• Location: Berkeley, CA
• Website: https://berkeleyhalfmarathon.com/
• Time: 1:37:XX

Goals

Splits

Training

I am still a new runner, but once I started documenting notes for myself I figured I might as well just post it here too since I enjoyed reading all your reports.

I have a history of sports and did a lot of track workouts back in college but mostly shorter distances for more of the sprint endurance type training. Ran a 5:30 mile in school 10 years ago, but other than that just stayed active and did workout classes like Barry’s.  In April I started running lightly, but kept it slow to around 5-10 miles a week, no faster than 9 min per mile since I also have a history of plantar fasciitis. Started training seriously when I signed up in mid August (exactly 3 months out).

I loosely followed Hal Higdon’s Intermediate 2 half marathon training plan which is 12 weeks long. I modified it slightly since I could only run 4x a week. Tuesday easy/recovery run, Wednesday intervals/tempo, Friday easy run, Sunday long run (starting from 6 miles and building up to 11). This was working pretty well but I got sick in Mid-October, and then I had some pretty significant overtraining symptoms after that, but kept going through with the training at a lighter intensity. Capped out at around 22-25 miles per week the last 3 weeks leading up to the half. So yes long runs did end up at 50% of my weekly mileage at some weeks. which I’ve read before is not ideal.

Most of my easy runs were around the 9-9:30 per mile pace (slowed them down from 8-8:30 after overtraining). For the intervals I mostly did 8-12 x 400M with 60 second rest in between reps at around 83-87 seconds per rep. Tempo runs I worked in later around 5-6 miles at 7:30-8:00 per mile pace.

I did a bit of a taper where the weekend before the race my long run was only 8 miles, but I still ran a PR 10K the week of the half on Tuesday (~44.5 min) to try out my race shoes. While that wasn’t great from a taper perspective, that gave me a ton of confidence that I could run a sub 8 pace on race day, and it made me feel like I was in great condition, fully moving past any sickness/overtraining. 

Due to the sickness/overtraining right in the peak section of the training block, I really only had that last 10K the week of the race where I felt great. According to the VDOT calculators, that 10K time should equate to a 7:30/mile pace half marathon, but because my training block wasn’t amazing and I knew the race had hills, I tempered my expectations and decided to aim for a 1:45 half marathon time with my stretch goal of 1:40:30 (7:40 min per mile).

For footwear I did all my training in the Hoka Clifton 9s and the speed work in an old Nike Pegasus model I got a few years ago.

Pre-Race

I slept 9.5 hours 2 nights before the race so I was super happy about that. The night before the race, I only got ~4 hours of sleep since I couldn’t fall asleep and wanted to wake up early to eat breakfast. Honestly I started spiraling the night before when I couldn’t fall asleep, but reading articles that the night before is less important than the sleep the few days leading up to it eased my concerns lol. I ate two slices of honey toast at around 5AM, stretched out, and got to the race venue around 6:45 for a 7:30 start time. Once I got there I ate a honey stinger waffle, and then 10 minutes pre-race I had a caffeinated GU gel.

I brought one more uncaffeinated gel and a pack of Cliff Bloks with me during the race. The plan was to eat a blok every couple miles and take the gel around halfway through.

Race

The course is most difficult at the beginning and end, where the first 4 miles have rolling hills and the last 3 miles are a steady uphill climb for around 650 ft elevation gain total. The website indicated there wouldn't be a 1:45 pacer, so my initial plan was to take it easier in the first section, pick up the pace in the middle, and bank some time for the last 3 miles to close around 1:45.

However there actually was a pacer for 1:45, so once the race started I decided to stick with this group and see where I could go from there. I stuck with the pacer for the first 3 miles, and my chip time 3 mile split was exactly 8 minutes per mile (watch/strava did indicate faster). 

Not sure if it was the adrenaline or caffeine, but my heart rate shot up to 170 within the first 2 miles which scared me a little, but physically I felt totally fine so I sped up a bit to ~7:30 per mile pace and left the pacing group behind though I knew would be a risk to speed up that early. On the downhill section (miles 5 through 7) I let my legs fly and shocked myself with a 7:09 mile 6 split, which led me to consciously slow down a little in mile 7 and 8. 

I was still feeling great entering mile 9 and 10 which I knew was my favorite section of the course along the water (hot take maybe?). At this point I caught up enough to see the 1:40 pacer ahead which was a huge motivator along with the view. I kept the pace and miles 9 and 10 ended up being two of the faster miles up to that point heading into the dreaded final 5K. At this point I was also freaking out a little internally, because I realized I had a real shot at a sub 7:30 per mile pace, which was not even in my radar at the start. 

At this point though, the fatigue hit me like a wall, and I felt it mostly in my chest/cardio rather than my legs. The last 3 miles have 200 ft of elevation gain steadily going uphill, so even maintaining pace at that point felt like an insane increase in effort. I felt the burn in my chest but knowing it was just a few miles left I pushed through with somehow my fastest mile on mile 13 and strong kick for the last 0.1, finishing with 1:37 and a 7:25 per mile pace! The last 3 miles of the race were so brutal that I’m still shocked I ran a negative split on them.

Post-Race

Unreal, unreal feeling to get the time I did, especially when it felt to me that based on my training. I would not even sniff a time like that. It’s a shock to see how training builds up over time and to see the outcome in a number. As someone who has played a ton of sports, this really is different from anything else out there.

Prior to this race and training for it, I just wanted to see what I could accomplish with some training. Now I’m looking at other half marathons and very slowly warming up to the idea of a full marathon, even though I’m not sure I could handle the full training workload it comes with yet. I definitely enjoy running WAY more than before, and looking forward to continue exploring the spot. Excited for the next one!

Also, definitely am open to any feedback on how I handled training, fueling, pacing/race strategy, etc!!

Made with a new race report generator created by u/herumph.

Race Information

• Name: Philadelphia Marathon
• Date: November 24, 2024
• Distance: 26.2 miles
• Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
• Time: 2:58:12

Goals

Splits

Training

I signed up for this marathon back in June, two months after setting a personal best in the Brooklyn Half (1:27:30). I’d always wanted to run a full marathon, but honestly, the idea was incredibly nerve-wracking. I knew how tough that half marathon felt—I couldn’t even imagine doubling the distance.

To prepare, I also signed up for the Jersey City Half as an early tune-up to gauge my fitness. For the BK Half, I used the Pfitz 12/55 plan but had to shorten it to 10/55 after getting injured early in the cycle. This time, I wanted to up my game. I committed to the 12/70 plan for the full marathon. I considered the 18/70 plan but decided against it because I needed to build my mileage gradually. I was at about 40 MPW in early August and needed time to hit 50+ comfortably. I entered the plan feeling healthy-ish. My Achilles was always a little sore in the mornings—something I’ve come to think of as a summer thing since it usually goes away in winter. The first few weeks of the plan in September felt manageable.

I bumped my mileage to around 65+ and ran the Jersey City Half, shaving 20 seconds off my PR with a 1:27:30. I was happy with the result but had been aiming for 1:25. I’d heard that 1:25 was the benchmark for a sub-3 marathon, which became my ultimate goal for my first marathon. Going sub-3 felt like more than just an achievement—it was a way to signal to myself that I was on the right path with running. I like setting lofty goals: shoot for the moon, land on the stars. Even if I blew up and ran a 3:07, I would’ve been fine with that as long as I gave sub-3 a shot. It sounds ridiculous, but that’s the mindset I had. To complement the Pfitz plan, I lifted three times a week—Monday for core and Wednesday/Friday for heavy compound lifts focused on running (hex bar deadlifts, single-leg RDLs, lunges, etc.).

I skipped only one recovery session. My mileage peaked at 75 MPW in late October and stayed above 70 for about four weeks. I added extra miles where I could and followed the Pfitz plan almost exactly, only skipping a recovery run now and then. The taper felt unnecessarily long—honestly, it was—but I went into race day feeling nervous yet optimistic. I’d done a ton of Googling, and most calculators based on my half-marathon times suggested 3:05 was my ceiling. But I knew I could do sub-3.

Pre race

I woke up at 4:30 a.m., did my warm-up, made a much-needed movement, and then ate some oatmeal and a banana before heading to the race. My brother and sister-in-law were huge helps the entire weekend, shepherding me from place to place and even following along the route. It was lovely having them there. I got to my corral (B) hoping to find a 3:05 pacer. The plan was to stick with them until around mile 18 and then make my move. But there was only a 3:10 pacer and a 3:00 pacer. I talked to both to get a sense of their plans. Pacers are half therapists, half pacers—ha. Both were aiming for even splits, which sounded good to me. I decided to just go for it, trust myself, and stick with the 3:00 pacer. If I blew up, at least I’d know I gave it everything. I avoided jumping around too much to conserve energy. For fueling, I brought six Maurten 100 gels. No caffeine—I don’t usually do caffeine, and I didn’t want to risk it spiking my BPM artificially. The horn fired, and we were off.

The Race

For the first few miles, I worried I’d gone out too hot. I’d read so many race reports about people blowing up after a fast start, and with my half-marathon fitness earlier this year, I kept glancing at my watch and BPM, convinced I might have messed up. Seeing my brother and sister-in-law at mile 2 got me emotional—I teared up a little. But my BPM kept creeping into the 170s, and I felt like I needed to calm down. I was pressed that I’d overcooked it. Then I hit mile 5, running through the city center (I think), and there were these massive speakers blasting Future’s “BRAZZIER.” I know, it sounds ridiculous, but I didn’t hear much hip-hop from the crowd along the route, and that bassline was unmistakable. At this point, I decided to just LOCK IN. I switched my watch display to show just distance, time, and lap pace and told myself, “You’re going to sub-3 your first marathon.” I repeated it like a mantra.

Catching up to the 3:00 pacers, I kept them in sight, trailing about 10 seconds behind. Miles 8 to 13 took us out of the city, and things got quieter. Running with the 3:00 pacers was special, though—you’d hear the crowd yelling, “YOU’RE GOING TO BREAK 3!!” Every time, I thought, “Yes, I am.” I had a few close calls at water stations—some people were polite, others a little less so—but I hadn’t run in a pack like this before, so adjusting was tricky. At one point, I drifted from the pack and tucked in behind taller runners to draft and conserve energy. As a motor racing fan, it was pretty cool to do this in real life. I crossed the halfway point at 1:30:12 and reminded myself again, “You’re going to sub-3 your first marathon.”

I made friends along the way and was recording selfie videos to capture my lap pace. Clown me if you want, but I wanted to capture my first marathon in a cool way. Maybe I lost a minute doing this, but I didn’t care. Miles 13 to 18, where I expected things to start getting tough, went smoother than I anticipated. I trusted my training and focused on conserving energy on the downhills, letting momentum carry me. Around mile 18, I met another runner who asked me my goal. “Sub-3,” I told him. He nodded and said, “Okay, bro, we’re both going sub-3 today.” We locked in together.

Running up Main Street to the turnaround was wild. The energy from the crowd was insane. I didn’t cheer back—trying to conserve every bit of energy—but Philly, y’all showed up for me, and I felt it. I caught up to the pacer around this time and asked if we were on track. He said we were early, but his plan was to finish at exactly 3:00. I felt ready and decided to make my move around mile 23 with my new running buddy from mile 18. Miles 23 to 26.2 were a blur. The wall didn’t hit me until mile 25, and even then, it was more mental than physical. I told myself, “You’re going to sub-3 your first marathon. Lock in.” And I did. The finish line came into view, and I gave it everything I had. As soon as I crossed, I stopped my watch and collapsed to the ground. My time? 2:58:12.

Post Race

Honestly, I’m still floored. As I sit here writing this, my thighs are on fire, and walking down stairs two days later feels like an extreme sport. Insane. That said, I’m planning to follow the Pfitz recovery plan and gradually build back to 50+ miles per week by January 2025, aiming to hit 60 comfortably after that. My next big goal is the United Half in March, where I’m shooting for a 1:25 or better. Fingers crossed—I’ll see how it goes! Also, I can’t thank the pacers enough. Without them, I’m sure I would’ve overcooked it. Locking into their pace was a game changer, keeping me steady and focused when I might’ve otherwise burned out. Truly, they made all the difference. O, and Future. One of the greatest rappers of all time. Fight me.

Made with a new race report generator created by /u/herumph.

Went down a real rabbit hole after reading u/apairofcleats' post yesterday and leaning about VLAmax and the trade offs when it comes to aerobic capacity -

This was a helpful read for me (some went over my head though): https://inscyd.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/INSCYD-Whitepaper-VLamax.pdf?vgo_ee=5Ufqes4gEFkDmLz7xdA0HEzkASpiHornD%2Fz2wZTd1jg%3D

"Glycolysis is not only important for sprinters, but has a tremendous effect on endurance performance. Glycolysis is the only way to utilize carbohydrates as a fuel during exercise. High glycolytic rates, enable high rates of utilizations of carbohydrates as a fuel. On the other hand, a high utilization of carbohydrates as fuel, reduces the need for fatty acids as a fuelthus lowering fat metabolism. Furthermore, the maximum glycolytic power – or VLamax – influences the glycolytic rate at endurance exercises. High VLamax will trigger high lactate production during endurance exercises. This high lactate production lowers power at anaerobic threshold and the ability to recover from lactate accumulation"

I’ve been reading a lot about that and how it applies to mid distance running or triathletes- understand it’s a tricky balance between aerobic and anaerobic. But as it applies to marathon training, is the main goal to get VLAmax as low as possible? This would mean no blowing out the last of my 400 reps or maybe rethinking 400 reps as a workout in the first place? What about the strength needed to maintain good form for running when tired? I suppose it’s all just a balance game.

Anyway curious what people’s thoughts are on how to apply this to marathon training!

Race Information

• Name: Philly Marathon
• Date: November 24 2024
• Distance: 26.2 miles
• Location: Philly
• Time: 2:56:12

Goals

Splits

• 25k sign was a little early I think, 25k was realistically closer to 20:10, 30k split was closer to 21

Training

This was my 3rd sub-3 attempt and second one this year. Ran the Wilmington NC marathon in February, out at 2:55 pace but fell off hard around mile 15 and ended up at a 3:07. Had planned on doing an Ironman in September but a few bike crashes over the summer (including two weeks out from the race) put that idea down. The bright side of that was coming into this marathon block with 90% of an Ironman block under my belt, including 10 weeks over 40 miles with 5-10 hours of cycling per week.

Switched coaches going into this after realizing I needed more volume and a coach who was personally focused on track races wasn't a great fit. Schedule was 50-60 miles/week peaking around 65 with 5-6 days running and at least one full rest day each week. One longer workout & a long run that usually had some intervals in it, rest of the runs easy with 1-2 of them having strides.

This was my highest (consistent) volume in a block but also my fewest runs per week and it worked very well for me. 10 mile easy runs work much better for me than more 7-8 mile runs or even running 2 5-mile runs in a day. To go up in mileage I probably would need to run 6 days consistently, but that's probably ok. The full rest day each week kept me from getting into too big of a hole.

Good amount of MP work and a few iterations of the Clayton Young/Connor Mantz "fatigued mile repeats" workout that has kicked around on Strava/this sub a few times. I really like the format and will probably keep it in for future blocks.

In addition to more mileage, I realized during this block that I'd been under drinking during longer efforts/races, so I focused strongly on getting at least enough water in. Realized that losing 30 seconds to a pee break was much better than losing 30 seconds/mile in the back half to a

Pre-race

Focused on getting a good carb load in this time and succeeded. Did what Featherstone Nutrition recommended for 3 days, which was 650g/day. That's A LOT of rice by the way. Might be using some maltodextrin drinks next time around.

Did a final shakeout at home then got to Philly on Satuday morning, got my packet, found some food to continue the carb load, got to the hotel early and waited for my room to be ready. Fully in bed by 7pm, probably actually asleep by 8pm.

Race morning went perfectly. Up a little ahead of my 4am alarm, some cold brew in the hotel room and 3 good poops, headed out the door at 510 to beat the lines at security. Headed back up to my room for a 4th poop before I left the hotel though just to be safe.

Quick warmup + 5th poop, then just relaxed until 645 or so, when I hopped the fence into the corral to avoid the long mob of people trying to go in the official way. Final water bottle pee during the national anthem and we're off.

Race

Last time I ran Philly, I was targeting 3:05 and went out in a 6:35 (way too fast). Goal this time was to hit mile marker 1 around 6:45 and work down from there. Missed the MM1 banner but went through MM2 at 13:25, so probably hit that goal well enough. Through 5k feeling really good in 20:50 against a 21:00 plan, so right on target.

Had a Maurten 320 in a small bottle for the first hour, then gels every 20 minutes afterward for 80g/hour first hour then 75g/hour for the rest of the race.

Fell in with a pretty big group that seemed on 2:55 pace, so just let them set the pace and block some wind for awhile. Had to pee sometime after 10k but only lost 20-30 seconds and still had the group in sight afterwards. Might have pushed a little hard to make contact with them in the following few miles, but legs felt ok. Into the hills, I was making sure to hold the effort steady on the uphills, but did let it fly on the downhills. At 175 lbs, I'm a bit heavier than the average sub-3 runner so figured I'd use the momentum to my advantage to catch up with a few groups.

That effort might have slightly backfired in the last big downhill onto Kelly Drive around 25k/mile 16ish. My quads were on fire and still hurt even onto the flat section. Lost contact with the group I'd been with for 10+ miles right as the headwind started, and couldn't really find another good group. Plenty came by but I just couldn't hang on. At this point my stomach started to be super bloated and I was worried about the wheels coming off. Fortunately, my pace was only creeping up into the low-7s, so I knew that as long as I held that pace, sub-3 was still in the cards.

Hit the turnaround at 2:13, so just under 47 minutes to run just under a 10k. I was fully in sub-3 protection mode at this point, just trying to hold on as my quads and stomach tried to rebel. Hit a stomach breaking point a little a before 40k and had a small puke/huge burp on the side of the road. That fixed 80% of my problems and was back under 6:30 pace for the rest of race.

Hit 1 mile to go just under 2:50 and really tried to hold on to a sub-2:56. Just missed that with the hill into the finish, but still ended up with an almost 9 minute PR and first sub-3.

Post-race

Stomach completely locked up post-finish, couldn't even really conceive of drinking water. Grabbed my stuff and headed back to the hotel. After a bit of lying around on the floor, got in the shower, checked out, and went to the Christmas Market. The spiced wine actually seemed good and it immediately settled everything. 3 pretzels and some fries later, I almost felt human again.

Really need to figure out whatever issue I have with getting air trapped in my stomach because I think without that bloating, 2:55 would've easily been within reach, if not a minute or two faster.

What's next? Maybe a spring half marathon or 10k, not really sure. Possibly CIM next fall but I don't think I want to launch right into another marathon block right now. I think with some more mileage + easier course + figuring out the last of my tummy troubles, sub-2:50 and actually going to Boston is possible.

Made with a new race report generator created by u/herumph.

Race Information

• Name: Philadelphia Marathon
• Date: November 24, 2024
• Distance: 26.2 miles
• Location: Philadelphia, PA
• Website: https://www.philadelphiamarathon.com/
• Strava: https://www.strava.com/activities/12973389964
• Time: 2:32:07

Goals

Splits

Training

33M: I ran the Chicago Marathon 6 weeks prior to this race, so most of my training can be found in that race report.

After Chicago, my mileage was as follows:

Week 1 (down week): 34 miles
Week 2: 97 miles
Week 3: 100 miles
Week 4: 80 Miles
Week 5: 70 miles
Race week: 31 miles prior to race

I was actually pretty surprised with how my body responded after Chicago. By the middle of week 2 I was actually feeling pretty good and hit an 18-miler with some miles at marathon effort. I also managed to get a 22-miler in (with some quicker efforts) during the 100-mile week. This short block went by very quickly, and the taper came before I knew it.

Pre-race

I was definitely a bit nervous coming into this race for many reasons, but those reasons were mainly: running another marathon right after Chicago, racing on a course with 3x more elevation than Chicago, and racing on a slightly windy day (10 mph).

I was originally in the seeded field for this race, which usually starts in the same corral as the elite field, but this year they split up the seeded runners and the elites since they were offering prize money for the open division. They did give us a choice to move up to elite if we wanted to, so I opted to do that.

I think this was the right choice--the pre-race hospitality (warming tent, private bathrooms, private gear check) really took the stress out of race morning. I really appreciated being able to wear my warmups basically until race time and then being able to pick them back up in the tent after the race. Yeah, I felt like a bit of an imposter, but I'll take these perks any day.

We probably got to the elite tent itself a little before 6 AM. I had time to chat with some folks, eat a banana, and grab a bit more coffee before using the bathroom twice and starting my warmup. I did some dynamic stretches and drills and then got in a short jog in w/ some pickups. Before I knew it, it was time to head to the start line, where we were able to do some strides. We were supposed to start at 7 AM, but it was a little delayed (the half was the day before, too) and so we were off at 7:09!

Race

I felt pretty good right out of the gate. We had a nice group of guys in my pack from the beginning (maybe 5-6), so these early miles felt pretty good. The energy from the crowds downtown in these first miles is great--I really think Philly is the best big-city marathon in the US outside of the majors (some might even prefer it to the majors), and I'd definitely recommend it to anyone looking for a fall marathon. These early miles are pretty flat, so we were just cruising. Hit 5k in 17:37.

The wind was coming from the west on race morning, and this early in the race I wasn't really feeling anything. At about mile 5 we made the turn onto Chestnut and started heading out west into a headwind, but I think we were pretty protected here by the buildings, and I didn't feel the wind much here. Some minimal climbing between 5k and 10k, but nothing crazy. 10k in 35:32.

At this point we still had a pack of about 5 of us, but were starting to spread out just a bit. Heading over the Walnut Street bridge and out toward UPenn is when I really felt the wind for the first time, but it wasn't too bad. This is also the exact moment in which I remembered u/sprodown's shitposting in this thread: "The headwinds are only headwinds if you’re slow. Go faster, and they’ll be tailwinds." Had myself a laugh at this point, which was good, because we were about to start the first real climb as we headed up north. I had fallen a bit off the pack, but managed to reconnect during the climb without wasting too much effort. All the real climbs happen between about 7.5 miles and the halfway point of the race, so I knew if I could make it to half feeling not too beat up from the climbs I'd be in for a decent race. 15k in 53:23.

Mile 10 starts with a short climb, followed by a nice downhill heading right into the biggest climb of the race. I actually handled this section pretty well, but my legs needed a bit of time to get back up to speed as we heading onto Avenue of the Republic. Our pack was pretty split at this point, with a couple of pairs of guys running together and then a couple of us running alone in between (myself included). Despite no longer being in a pack, I could see the guys ahead of me, and this helped a lot with keeping pace. Another climb and crossed halfway in 1:15:45.

I was definitely behind where I wanted to be at this point, but I feeling pretty decent physically and was happy to have made it through all of the serious hills. This part of the course was probably the most boring, though, as I was still running alone and the crowd support was pretty sparse. It's a bit twisty here as you navigate the park, and I much prefer running long, straight stretches of road (it's easier for me to lock in mentally). Huge downhill coming out of park here and heading north, and I split one of my fastest miles (mile 16) here. As I passed ~16.2 I said "single digits now" out loud and prepared to lock in for what is always the hardest part (mentally) of the marathon for me: miles 16–20.

As I got onto Kelly Drive, I started to really feel the wind for the first time. I even make some remark about it as I passed my coach along Kelly. "No problem," I told myself, "I'll have a nice tailwind coming home." More on that later. 30k in 1:47:54. I was yo-yoing with a guy who had initially passed me as we first got onto Kelly. I think he was dealing with some cramps, but I'm relatively certain that he came out Corral A, so he probably had a finishing time 4-5 minutes faster than me. Regardless, he was keeping a decent pace and was a good person to chase during this stretch.

Heading up into Manayunk is a ton of fun, as the crowds really turn out here and bring a ton of energy. It's really needed at this point, because there is a small climb (maybe 30 ft. or so) that feels a lot bigger than it actually is because of where it's at on the course and because you see folks heading down on the other side as they tackle the last 10k of the race. 20.1 miles in 1:56:25 (random, but I'm pretty sure this corresponds with the turnaround).

I still felt relatively good at the turnaround and was excited for the final part of the race. However, to my surprise, I was hit with what felt like another headwind as I got back onto Kelly heading in the opposite direction. "What gives?" I thought. Alas, I remembered u/niceguy542006's words in the Philly thread linked above: "girding myself for the wonderful headwinds heading out on Kelly Drive, which always seem to also be headwinds coming back from Kelly drive." Prophetic.

I was starting to fade with 5k to go when I really should have been stepping on the gas. I had a bit of a side stitch that I couldn't kick, which was making breathing a bit more labored than it needed to be. Honestly though, I think I've gotta work on being more mentally tough in the last 10k overall of a race. I was hurting a bit here, but I could have made myself hurt more. 1 mile to go: 2:26:25.

The last half mile has a bit of a climb, which is never fun at the end of a marathon lol. When I could make out the clock, I saw something like 2:31:45 and knew I would just miss my A goal. I managed to close pretty hard and felt like I was absolutely flying in this last mile. It's all relative, obviously, because I split like 5:43 here--faster than my overall average pace, but not by any means my fastest mile of the race.

Crossed the finish in 2:32:07 (chip)--a 27-second PR following a PR at Chicago just 6 weeks earlier! As always, I wanted a bit more on the day, but I've got be happy about another PR after a quick turnaround and racing on a more difficult course!

What's Next?

So this is 6 marathon PRs in a row dating from Chicago 2022 to now. I have to shout out my coach, Dylan Gearinger, who was out on the course on Sunday and has been great to work with over the past 2.5 years. Great guy, great coach.

I'm going to work on some top end speed this winter before moving into a marathon block. I'm signed up for Project 13.1 in March and am hoping to rip a nasty half on what is an extremely quick course. I know we've got some other folks from this sub signed up as well, so looking forward to seeing you all there. After this, I'm pretty sure I'll do the Jersey City Marathon in April. Looks like a flat and fast course.

Thanks for reading!

Made with a new race report generator created by u/herumph.

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I have my morning race routine locked down and know exactly what time to get up, what to eat, when to eat it etc before a race that starts in the morning.

Tomorrow I have a 10km race at 7pm. This will be the first time I’m racing in the evening. I understand that everyone is different and I’m going to have to try and work out what works for me but what is your prep schedule like for an evening/night race?

What do you eat? What time do you eat it? Anything to avoid doing? Anything to make sure I do?

A place to ask questions that don't need their own thread here or just chat a bit.

We have quite a bit of info in the wiki, FAQ, and past posts. Please be sure to give those a look for info on your topic.

Link to Wiki

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Race Information

Name: Philadelphia Marathon

Date: November 24, 2024

Distance: 26.2 miles

Location: Philadelphia, PA

Website: https://www.philadelphiamarathon.com/

Time: 2:36:xx

Goals

Splits

Training

I was a D3 runner and ran throughout high school and college, I was pretty good but hardly amazing, 25:20ish 8k XC, 14:57 5k, 3:56 1500, but that was 10-15 years ago now. I fell off pretty quickly after college, I’d start running the spring and max out at maybe 2-3 ~5mi runs per week over the summer before stopping completely in the winter. I’d stopped running completely for a few years before I started running seriously again in Apr 2023, after a couple work friends had put together an easy challenge group on strava. I quickly remembered my love for running especially with the new developments in shoes and smartwatches. I slowly built up my mileage throughout 2023, peaking around 50 mpw before taking ~3 weeks off for a long vacation.

In January I decided I was going to race again, and set my sights on a local half-marathon for the spring with the Philly marathon in the fall. I used a Pfitz 12/55 AM plan for the half, since my eventual goal was marathons and I wanted to get used to that training instead of a half-marathon specific plan. I pretty much guessed at 6:45 for mp and 6:20 for threshold. In retrospect these paces were on the easy side since I ran 78:40, blowing my sub-80 goal out of the water. I slowly rebuilt to 55 mpw, targeting a Pfitz 18/70 plan for Philly that started mid July.

18/70 got off to a bit of rough start. I had some patellar tracking issues a week or two before the plan started and went to PT for those, but I ran through it. In the 2^(nd) or 3^(rd) week I had a twinge in my hamstring during an LT workout, I tried running through it but the pain wasn’t going away so I ended up taking a couple days off, missing a long run and hill workout then doing a couple easy runs. Luckily this was about the last of it. The rest of the training went well, I was using 6:15-6:20 MP and 5:55 LT for paces. With 10 weeks to go I ran the Philly Distance Run in place of the 20mi long run and skipped the 6mi LT that week, ended up running 75:45 which was quite a bit better than expected, I was just hoping to run my previous PB (78:40) or slightly better since it was the middle of a training block. I adjusted my paces to 6:00-6:05 MP and 5:40-5:45 LT based on that race. The 7mi LT was a bit of a miss after adjusting the paces, but otherwise the rest of the block went well. I’ve never taken well to taper so I felt kinda rough the last 2-3 weeks and was worried I’d overcooked the last 3 long runs (I absolutely did) but told myself it was just mental and that all the training was there. I did have some hamstring and calf pain in my right leg during the taper but I ran through it and it went away in the last week, I also still would have raced if it didn’t.

It's worth noting this was my first marathon and I was pants-shittingly nervous the last week.

Pre-race

I live about an hour outside the city so I was up promptly at 4am, did a ~10 min shakeout run, wolfed down 2 english muffins and made coffee and hopped in the car with my girlfriend around 4:45. We drove to my Dads house just outside the city and he drove us the rest of the way to the starting area and parked (big shoutout to my dad here, fuck parking), no traffic on the way in thankfully, we arrived at the entry gates around 6:15. This did end up cutting my ideal warm-up a bit short, I probably should have just done my usual 10-15min jog outside the gates then changed shoes and stripped down to race fit+jacket outside the security area but I went straight in and did a ~6 min job before getting changed in the gear check line. Luckily the race was also running a tad late (15 mins or so). It ended up being 42ish at the start with low wind so near perfect. I’d been debating arm sleeves but ended up deciding against them, but did wear gloves. I thrifted 2 jackets to wear on the start and ditched them after speeches.

For fuel I’d decided on 1 Maurten Caf-100 before the start, then alternating non-caf and caf every 4 miles up to 16 where I’d switch to my 250mL soft-flask of 4 scoops of Skratch Hi-Carb. I had also meant to eat a Maurten bar an hour or so before the race but I forgot it in the pre-race confusion.

Race

I’d love to say I had a plan other than stick to 6:00 ish with some give on the hills, but no I really didn’t. I started around the front of A corral and ran what felt like MP.  My watch (Apple Watch S8 using workoutdoors) was a bit off the first 2 mi, claiming low 5:40s but I trusted my body, turns out I was right on. A pack formed a bit ahead of me and started breaking away, and the dormant XC athlete in me told me to run with them, but I suppressed it and stuck to my guts and let them get away, I caught many of them in the end. I’m so used to running alone at this point that it’s difficult for me to use other runners to my advantage, so I mostly just set my own pace and stuck to it. The plan was 6:00s but I really wanted the sub 6 average and I hit 5:55 ish for most of the race.

The one thing that struck me throughout the race was how familiar everything was. My running career really started in HS in Philly and I’d run almost the entire course over many runs throughout the years. It was so, so cool to run through my home city, through the buildings, streets, and monuments I’d walked past, the parks I’d run through, the assorted historic neighborhoods we’d toured in high school, and of course the godforsaken river loop. I still can’t get over how perfect a morning we were blessed with.

It's crazy to me how hard a 14mi MP tempo can feel during training and yet 16 miles into the race I felt amazing. It wasn’t until Manayunk (~20mi ish) when the miles really caught up with me, up until then I’d thought I’d be able to drop to 5:40s at the end for a fast finish, but every mile in Manayunk started to drag and I wondered just how far out the turn around was. I also learned around then that I’d used slightly too much powder in my flask and it was like drinking syrup. I got a couple sips in, probably half of it in total down but not nearly as much as I’d wanted. As we exited Manayunk and descended into no-mans land I was hurting and I knew it was going to be a rough finish.

Somehow, I persisted without falling apart, in the last 3 miles I was pretty much just yelling at myself not to walk, and just to finish the race. If you’d asked me my pace in the last 3 I would have said 7, 8 minute miles maybe, how I managed to hold it together and only fall to 6:10s is beyond my understanding and one of the gutsiest moments of my entire running career.

As I came up the accursed “hill” coming up to the art museum, wishing that some higher power would smite me, I saw that I hadn’t relented, that my not-even-A-goal was miraculously (literally) in sight, and I powered through. 2:36:54, 5:59 pace.

Post-race

Really wish they had put actual seats in the finisher area, but I would also probably still be sitting there if there were. My legs have never been so dysfunctional. I managed to make it out and get my gear though, and after waiting for some old teammates to finish we made the long walk to the car. I really would have liked to hang out in the city longer but un/fortunately I had a thanksgiving dinner to attend, so that’ll be another day.

Next year I’m currently thinking I’ll run Burlington in May, and hopefully qualify for New York with my Philly time. I’ll target 80mpw and might try a JD plan instead of Pfitz since it seems more flexible, and my work gets busy in spring.

In the end I couldn’t ask for a more perfect race, on a more perfect day, in the city where it all began, for my first marathon and the real start of my post-collegiate career. Thank you Philadelphia.

Made with a new [race report generator](http://sfdavis.com/racereports/) created by u/herumph.

I've recently been learning about the role of lactate in our bodies in the context of distance running, and I came across this website which I found extremely interesting, with an discussion and viewpoint 'd never heard before. Here it is in quotes:

"One of the essential implications ... is that the amount of the aerobic system an athlete can access during a race depends upon the strength of the anaerobic system. The stronger the anaerobic system, the lower the percentage of aerobic capacity an athlete will reach at the maximum lactate steady state. This is one of the most important factors affecting performance for longer races. Essentially, the anaerobic system acts as a Gate Keeper for the aerobic system. It determines how much will get used. An athlete may have a huge aerobic capacity and be unable to access a lot of it because of the anaerobic capacity."

The author (Jan Olbrecht) seems very reputable: https://lactate.com/triathlon/lactate_triathlon_maxlass.html

Thoughts on this?

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So long story short I developed projectile vomiting at 8 pm the night before my marathon in Battersea Park at the weekend there. It had been spreading through my work like wildfire and I really thought I’d managed to avoid it. I had to obviously pull out it was probably the worse I’ve ever felt in my life health wise. Frustrating as well as I hadn’t missed a single day off in my 16 weeks program and get that the night before couldn’t make it up.

I had been banking lots of high 90 mile weeks and felt in shape to run about 2.32 or 2.33. Now I don’t even know what to do with all that training now and it’s making me incredibly frustrated. I already feel better already and intend to start back next week but I have no clue what to train for off the back of all that marathon and aerobic work. There is also no marathons elsewhere to target seemingly and I have tapered too much now as well. What would others train for or would you just call the season and regroup next year ?

Race Information

• Name: White River Half Marathon
• Date: November 23rd, 2024
• Distance: 26.22
• Location: Cotter, AR
• Website: https://whiterivermarathon.com
• Time: 2:56:53

Goals

Background

I'm a 35yo M that started running more seriously last August. I built my base milage up for 9 months and then ran a hilly spring marathon in 3:33:XX. There was no training plan for that first marathon. Just building slow easy miles to 50-55MPW. But I had officially caught the bug and had my heart set on a BQ (which I just got today!!!). After that first race, I increased my base milage to 65 in preparation for starting my first ever training block for the White River Marathon.

Training

I followed the Pfitz 18/70 plan. I was able to stay injury free and stick to the plan almost perfectly. I did take Sundays off and most often didn't try to make up that milage during the week. I calculated all of my paces off of a 6:52 PMP and, at the beginning of training, that pace felt really fast to me. However, as training progressed, especially when I got into Block 3 "Race Preparation", I really felt my fitness improving leaps and bounds and I started to feel really super strong in my long runs that called for PMP. I got PRs in the Mile, 5K, 10K, and HM during this training block and the V.02 calculator from those runs suggested I was in 2:53:XX shape. But, since that was substantially faster than I'd been running in training, I decided to play it safe during the race.

Pre-race

The carb loading for a few days leading up was hands down my least favorite part of training. And that's saying something because I really love carbs. But, I'm glad I did it because I had no issues with glycogen during the race. I followed the pre-race warm up routine from Advanced Marathoning before the gun. 5 mins jogging warming up to 1min slower than PMP. Then 5-10 mins of stretching and dynamic movements. Then 5 more mins jogging ending with ~30sec at PMP. This was a small race so space to move around pre-race was not an issue, which was really nice.

Race

Mile 1 (the downhill)

This is a flat course (214ft elevation gain in total) but the first mile is 194ft downhill, all coming in about 600 meters. It's very steep. I found it quite awkward given that my body wasn't fully warmed up yet and I needed to run much faster than PMP just to not fall. I just ignored my HR during this section and tried to run based off feel. I was really glad when we finally leveled out to flat.

Mile 2-13.1 (the pack)

At the bottom of the hill, I was able to join up with 2 other runners going my same pace. We took turns leading all the way through the half. I came in the half in 1:29:10. At that point, I was feeling really fresh. After all, I'd been running on tired legs and depleted glycogen stores for 4 months and now I was rested and fully fueled. The first half felt like a prolonged warm up.

Mile 13.1-20 (the push)

At the half way mark I decided to squeeze a bit. Within a few hundred yards I found myself running alone, and I stayed alone the rest of the way (until 1200 meters... but more on that in a second). I knew the race was really going to begin at mile 20, so I stayed fairly conservative here, but not as conservative as the first half. Felt some slight pain in my left hammy, but everything else was strong.

Mile 20-26.2 (the kick)

At mile 20, I really started to ratchet down the pace. By mile 23, I had passed 6 runners (which was a decent amount given <200 runners total). My legs started to feel like jelly, but I just kept the engine moving and my pace was strong. With 1200 meters to go, one of the 2 runners I'd worked with for the first half caught up to me. He was looking strong. Something in my animal brain took over and I just darted off. Closing the final 1200 in 5:15 mile pace (which is very fast for me). That kick allowed me to end in 2:56:XX instead of 2:57:XX.

Post-race

Within moments of crossing the finish line, my brain realized that I'd done it! I had actually run Sub3.. and by a few minutes! I let out a GIANT "wahoooo!" and started high fiving people like some kind of maniac. I'll blame that on the adrenaline from the closing kick.

Anyway, I was an great day and a great race. I'm still kind of pinching myself a bit. Last August my v02 max was 39, RHR was 72 and I could barely run an 11min mile. I now have a 58 v02 max RHR of 48 and just qualified for Boston by running 26.2 miles at 6:45 pace IN. A. ROW.

If I can do this, you can accomplish your next big goal. I promise.

Cheering for you! And thanks for reading.

Pretty mind-blowing stats:

"Over 920,000 Americans participated in a turkey trot last Thanksgiving at one of over 833 races across the U.S. The number of people who registered for a Turkey Trot through Run Signup has nearly tripled over the past seven years."

https://www.scrippsnews.com/life/holidays-and-celebrations/how-thanksgiving-has-become-the-biggest-day-of-the-year-for-running

The one thing that is noted is the vast majority are 5K events. Anyone wish turkey trots had longer options? Would anyone run a half marathon or marathon on Thanksgiving, or is that too much?