I am 42M, trying to find a sub 20 min 5 k plan. Some background, historically not a runner but picked up running on my 40th after a health scare. Lost some weight and since then ran 2 marathon and 1 ultra (50). Marathon pb is 3.28 last year in Melbourne marathon. I am coming out of an injury after 3 monthd & thinking of prepping for sub 20 5k. Problem is I think I am not quick enough for shorter distances. My best 5k is 20.37 and at finish line I thought I am going to die. Interested to hear about experiences & training plans geared towards 5k.

### Race Information

• **Name:** TCS NYC Marathon
• **Date:** November 3, 2024
• **Distance:** 26.2 miles
• **Location:** New York, NY
• **Website:** https://results.nyrr.org/event/M2024/result/761
• **Strava:** https://www.strava.com/activities/12815775713
• **Time:** 2:48:08
• **Age-Graded Time:** 2:39:10

### Goals

| Goal | Description  | Completed? |

|------|--------------|------------|

| A    | Sub 2:50     | *Yes*      |

| B    | Sub 3:00     | *Yes*      |

| C    | BQ (3:05)    | *Yes*      |

| D    | PR (3:25:31) | *Yes*      |

### Splits

| 5K Splits | Time |

|-----------|------|

| 5K  | 20:25

| 10K | 19:46 (40:11)

| 15K | 19:47 (59:58)

| 20K | 19:40 (1:19:38)

| HM  | 1:23:57

| 25K | 19:52 (1:39:30)

| 30K | 19:12 (1:58:42)

| 35K | 19:18 (2:18:00)

| 40K | 20:52 (2:38:52)

| FM  | 2:48:08 (1:24:11)

###Background: 

43/m

Past Experience: 

* Ran 2 years in HS, 2 years in college. PRs of 4:03.03 (1500m) and 1:56.6 (800m).

* Took 20 years off after college due to 20+ stress fractures over the 4 years of running - was told by doctors I’d never run again.

* 2021: Started running again at the end of July 2021, off and on (0-10 miles/week at most)

* 2022: 885 miles run; Raced my first half-marathon in 1:22:59 in October. 

* 2023: 1557 miles run; Raced United NYC HM in 1:22:47 and NYRR Brooklyn HM in 1:21:07; Competed in my first track race since college: full mile in 4:57.47.

* During the summer of 2023, I began a training block for the TCS NYC Marathon, but found myself bouncing back and forth between 40-50 mile weeks, and 10-20 mile weeks, due to aches and pains. After my first 16-mile run in September, I developed IT-band pain, which limited my training in September and October. On race day, I got caught up in the moment, went out too hard (5:58 first mile), and by mile 16, I resorted to alternating between running and walking every half mile. I ran 3:25:31 and ended up on an IV in the medical tent.

* 2024: On pace to hit 2000 miles run, 110,000+ feet of elevation gain; Raced two indoor track meets (800m in 2:08.29 and full mile in 4:49.07);

* Raced the United NYC HM in 1:18:10.

###Training:

I decided to follow a self-modified version of Pfitz 18/55, planning to run for 5 days/week instead of 6. I wasn’t sure how my legs would handle it, as I hadn’t put together a string of 3+ 50 mile weeks in a row since 2002. However, it was worth a shot, given how my inconsistency and lack of 16+ mile runs last year hindered my performance. I live in a hilly area, so I made it a point to average about 2000-3000 feet of elevation gain each week. I figured that would help prepare me for the bridges. While most of my training was solo, I did run with two of the local HS teams from time to time (invites from respective coaches), training with their top runners (9:03, 9:13, 9:16 2-milers). I did strides 2 times/week following my easy / general aerobic runs.

I initially planned to run a few track races in the summer (which didn’t happen), so I had hoped to mix my marathon training with some track work. I also opted to try a new gel this time around (Neversecond), practicing 1 gel per 4 miles towards the end of the training block. I also purchased a handheld Nathan ExoShot bottle for my long runs, so I could get used to take a sip of water every 1-2 miles. I started with twos week of base mileage.

Weeks 1 and 2 of base mileage: 

Weekly mileage:

41.0, 41.4 miles respectively

Workouts of note:

• 1 workout: 800m (2:39), 2x(4x400m) (74, 74, 73, 73, 69, 70, 70, 70)

Long runs: 

None

Easy / General Aerobic run average pace: 

Between 6:53 - 7:38/mile pace

Endurance Phase (Weeks 17 - 12):

Weekly mileage:

48.0, 30.0, 42.0, 50.1, 55.1, 53.4 miles respectively

Workouts of note: 

• 9 miles w/ 4 miles at LT (6:05/mi); 
• 2x(4x400) 3k pace (74-75s) w/ 1 min rest between reps in 1st set, mile pace (69-70s) w/ 2 mins rest between reps in 2nd set, 5 mins between sets.
• 4x(400-200-200) at mile pace, 200 jog after 400 and first 200, 400 jog after each set: 400s in 69, 200s in 34. 
• 8x200, 200 jog rest - start at 35s, cut down to 29-30s
• 16x400m @ 10k pace, 30 seconds rest - start at 84s, cut down to 79 seconds; 
• 4x200m with 2 mins rest (28, 29, 29, 29)

Long runs: 

12.0 (7:18 pace), No long run, No long run, 13.2 and 15.0 (7:20, 7:19 pace respectively), 15.0 (6:47 pace), 12.7 (6:58 pace)

Easy / General Aerobic run average pace: 

Between 6:50 and 8:19/mile pace

Other notes: 

30.0 mile week was due to some slight shin discomfort. Ran 4 days that week.

I had 2 track races (800m and mile) planned during this phase, but one was cancelled, and the other I was unable to make due to a work commitment.

LT + Endurance Phase (Weeks 11 - 7)

54.5, 51.5, 51.4, 41.2, 47.1 miles respectively

Workouts of note:

• 7x400m @ mile pace (69-70s) w/ 90s rest, 3 mins rest at 4th rep.
• 2x800m @ mile pace, 2x200m @ 800m pace, 800m jog recovery after first 800, 1000m jog recovery after 2nd 800m, 200m recovery after 200m. (2:20, 2:23, 27s, 29s)
• 8x200m @ slightly faster than mile pace, 200m jog rest. (33-34s, with last rep at 28s)
• 7 mile progression (7:41 down to 5:33)
• 3x5mins on (HMP), 5 mins off (MP)

Long runs: 

17.4 (6:55 pace), 11.9 (7:07 pace), 11.5 (6:55 pace), No long run, No long run

Easy / General Aerobic run average pace: 

Between 6:41 and 7:57/mile pace

Races: 

• Local Interclub masters race during week 9 the day after my long run. Ran it as a tempo in 17:36; 
• 5th Avenue Mile during week 8: 4:48 (age-grade: 83.27%; age-grade time: 4:28). 1st 400m was 61s (oops) 

Other notes:

Incorporated various fartlek style pickups in some of my easy runs (1 min on/1 min off), as well as some progressions

Race Preparation Phase (Weeks 6 - 3)

53.1, 56.5, 55.1, 51.2 miles respectively

Workouts of note:

• 6 miles w/ 3 mile cutdown - 6:46 to 5:41
• 5x(1200m, 400m) - 1200m @ 10k pace (avg. 5:15/mi pace), w/ 60 seconds rest, 400m @ 5k pace (avg. 4:55/mi pace), 3 mins between sets
• 4x1 mile w/ 60s rest followed by 2x300m, 5 mins rest between mile repeats and 300 repeats. (5:35, 5:31, 5:27, 5:26, 47s, 49s)

Long runs: 

20.0 (6:48 pace), 13.5 (6:37 pace), 17.0 (6:48 pace), 20.0 (6:44 pace - first 8 miles at MP+45s, 1 transition mile at MP+30s, 11 miles at MP; miles 18-20 were 6:15, 5:51, 6:07 pace) 

Easy / General Aerobic run average pace: 

Between 7:08 and 7:42/mile pace

Other notes: 

During week 4, my hips, glutes and calves began to tighten up, aggravating my IT band. Continued focus on stretching and strengthening those areas.

Taper and Race Phase (Weeks 2 - Race Week)

46.0, 33.0, 49.5 miles (includes marathon) respectively

Workouts of note:

• 1x2k, 2x1k, 1x2k on road w/ rolling hills - 2ks @ 10k pace, 1k @ 5k pace - 3 mins jog rest after 2k, 2 mins jog rest after 1k (7:04, 3:24, 3:21, 7:08)
• 3x(4x400m), 1st set @ 8k, 2nd set @ 5k, 3rd set @ 3k pace - 60s between reps, 90s between sets (77, 78, 78, 76), (75, 75, 75, 71), (72, 72, 72, 69)

Long runs: 

16.0 (6:35 pace - 3 miles wu, 6 miles @ 30k, 1 mile float, 6 miles steady), 12.1 (6:37 pace)

Easy / General Aerobic run average pace: 

Between 6:39 and 7:29/mile pace

Other notes:

• Sleep was a priority during this phase, typically averaging 6-8 hours/sleep per night.
• Carb-loading started 4 days before the race. I incorporated more potatoes and bananas for potassium, and avoided fiber the final 2 days before the race.
• I made sure to stay well hydrated the two weeks prior to the race, incorporating one bottle of LMNT each day along with water throughout the day.

### Pre-race

After last year, I knew I had to be conservative during the first mile. The plan was to start the race as if it were a long run, and then get into a groove by mile 4, tucking into groups running around my target pace until mile 20.

I opted to stay in NYC the night before instead of commuting in. I had a pasta dinner at Bocca di Bacco, prepared my race-day bag and singlet, and then attempted to fall asleep at 8pm. I laid in bed, awake, until about 12:30-1am due to constant noise outside. I woke up at 3:55, rolled out my back, used a lacrosse ball to break up any tension in my glutes, brushed my teeth, showered, taped up my big toes (blisters), got dressed, and then walked a mile to the midtown bus for 5:30 departure. I ate a bagel and drank a water bottle with LMNT on the bus, and enjoyed the sunrise. Once in Staten Island, I went to my corral (Local Competitive), and was happy to see there was a tent set up. Unfortunately, the tent was overcrowded, so I opted to sit against a tree. Fortunately, I was wearing 3 t-shirts, 3 long-sleeve shirts, 2 hoodies, and a windbreaker, as well as sweatpants and two pairs of socks. Used the bathroom a few times, and chatted it up with some of my club teammates. I was relieved to see one club member, who I knew was targeting 2:50, as I figured I’d be able to run alongside him for part of the race. As we left the LC tent and moved to the start line, I donated my sweatpants and the sweatshirts, and took half a gel (wasn’t intending to do this at first, but why not). Just prior to the start, I took off the remaining shirts and opted to stay towards the back of the LC group.

### Race

Nutrition Plan: I had 7 gels with me. I consumed 1/2 of one prior to the start, and tossed the rest. The other 6, I planned to do: 4-8-12-16-20-24. I used Neversecond Gels (Citrus and Orange)

Hydration Plan: Take water at every water station. Take gatorade and water at every station after mile 16.

I decided to enjoy the start on the bottom of the Verrazzano, and stay relaxed. My watch GPS was all sorts of messed up, only registering 0.27 miles during the first mile. I was hoping to keep my club teammate in sight for the first mile, but I lost sight of him within the first 600-800 meters. I had no idea what pace I was running, but I held back to avoid going out to hard.

Miles 1 - 2: 7:12, 6:04

Brooklyn was a blast. I don’t really remember the streets and various neighborhoods, but I just remember the crowd support being incredible. I bounced from pack-to-pack, maintaining pace, trying to find a group to run with. I eventually found a group with a few more of my club teammates, and asked them what they were hoping to run. When they said 2:50, I decided to stick with them for a bit. I continued with that pack for about a mile before moving ahead. By mile 8, I had caught up to the club teammate I had intended to stick with from the start. He was running with another teammate, so I tucked in behind them for a while.

Miles 3 - Half: 6:24, 6:15, 6:15, 6:27, 6:19, 6:21, 6:18, 6:15, 6:19, 6:13, 6:14, 1:23:57 at HM. 

I was secretly dreading the HM to the QB bridge portion of the race, as that is where everything last year went wrong. However, I felt great, and spotted my father, mother, brother and his wife in the crowd. I felt great at this point, and had a really good feeling about the rest of the race. As I approached, the QB bridge, I reminded myself to maintain pace and stay focused. I remained with my two club teammates, preparing myself for the roar of 1st Avenue.

Miles 14 - 16: 6:08, 6:36, 6:51

Coming down the QB bridge, and hearing the roar was surreal. Last year, I had contemplated dropping out upon reaching 1st avenue, but held on for the worst and longest 10 miles of my life. This year, I felt incredibly smooth and soaked it all in. My right hamstring started to tighten a bit, but thankfully loosened up after a minute or two. I continued to run behind or just ahead of my two teammates, and enjoyed the moment, drifting off to the sides at times to slap hands and tap the power-up signs. Around mile 18, I decided to move ahead of my group and push the pace. I felt great, and I knew the Willis Avenue bridge was approaching.

Miles 17 - 20: 6:05, 6:07, 6:11, 6:16

I was excited to head into the Bronx, as I didn’t remember this part of the race at all last year, and I knew some of the local run clubs and friends would be out there cheering me on. Once I hit mile 20 and checked my watch, I knew sub 2:50 was in the cards, and sub 3:00 was basically in the bag barring a catastrophe. My plan for the final 10k was to really push until I hit the 5th Avenue climb, focusing on passing as many runners as possible. My legs felt great and I was pretty relaxed, aside from the tape on my big toe starting to dig into my skin. Once I reached the 5th Avenue climb, sub 2:50 was pretty much in the bag, again, barring catastrophe. While my legs started to feel like they were encased in cement at this point, I reminded myself of the countless hills and elevation gain I ran during my training block, and pushed forward until I crested the hill.

Miles 21 - 24: 6:00, 6:08, 6:12, 6:57

Honestly, the rolling hills of Central Park didn’t phase me much, I leaned forward on the downhills and used that momentum to help me climb the uphills. I spotted a few people I knew cheering for me as I finished, and just focused on putting one foot in front of the other. The final 400 went by far faster than I could have imagined. When I crossed the finish line and realized I was in the 2:48 range, I was elated. I had achieved my goal, and qualified myself for Chicago, and hit the BQ with a very, very comfortable buffer. 

Miles 25 - 26: 6:43, 6:35 

Finish time: 2:48:08. Nearly a 40 minute PR.

### Post-race

Following the race, I got my medal and recovery bag, and then my face and body started to tingle and go numb. I began to feel a bit sick, so I tried to eat the apple. I spotted a medic with a wheelchair, and asked if I could sit down. I told him I felt dizzy and nauseous, and he brought me promptly to the medical tent. The staff in the tent was absolutely top tier, and I greatly appreciated the calf massage from the two PTs working on me. Once I got the clear to go, I left the tent, got my poncho and met my wife, son, parents, and brother and his wife around 69th street. We got some gelato from Venchi, and then had some pizza before I took the Metro North back to Tarrytown, and then drove over the TZ bridge to go home. 

Next up, track season with hopes of running 2:02, 4:35, and 9:40-9:50 on the track, and then running the United Airlines NYC HM!

Curious about those that have broken a 5 minute mile at 40+. Where did you all start at and what kind of training plans did you all follow?

I ran a 4:58 my freshman year of high school with just basic track and field training. No idea about long runs, obviously no super shoes or anything like that.

I ran a 5:29 about 1 month ago and just trying to figure out what’s feasible over the next year or two. Not asking if it’s possible for myself per se, just trying to hear about your training and seeing your before and after. Curious about mileage and was the 1 mile your focus or just a thing that occurred due to training for other races.

Hey all.

To be clear, I am NOT seeking medical advice, but rather curious what others have experienced after years of training.

Has anyone developed cardiac adaptations which have been flagged as anamolies during an annual physical and required follow ups with a cardiologist?

Looked at running Austin or Houston but being located in the midwest it would be a pricey trip. Still considering it but curious if there would be something in or near the midwest region that is fast in the January-March (at the latest) range. Thanks!

A place to ask questions that don't need their own thread here or just chat a bit.

We have quite a bit of info in the wiki, FAQ, and past posts. Please be sure to give those a look for info on your topic.

Link to Wiki

Link to FAQ

What's everyone up to on this weekend? Racing? Long run? Movie date? Playing with Fido? Talk about that here!

As always, be safe, train smart, and have a great weekend!

Race Information

• Name: Baystate Marathon
• Date: October 20, 2024
• Distance: 26.2 miles
• Location: Lowell, MA
• Time: 3:30:XX

Goals

Splits:

• 1 - 7:51
• 2- 7:54
• 3- 7:54
• 4- 7:52
• 5- 8:00
• 6- 7:58
• 7 -7:51
• 8- 7:55
• 9- 7:51
• 10- 7:51
• 11 - 7:56
• 12 - 7:53
• 13 - 7:55
• 14 - 8:00
• 15 - 7:58
• 16 - 7:57
• 17 - 7:56
• 18 - 7:58
• 19 - 7:55
• 20 - 7:59
• 21 - 8:05
• 22 - 8:07
• 23 - 8:10
• 24 - 8:17
• 25 - 8:14
• 26 - 8:10
• .4 (lol I suck at tangents: 3:08/8:17 pace

Background/training

Apologies for the novel!

I caught the running bug in middle school but never competed, just ran a lot for fun and to self-medicate my anxiety (I was a theater kid so no time/interest in organized sports). I went to college in NYC and got SUPER into running NYRR races, including the marathon twice, a 4:20 and a 4:06. Then promptly tore my MCL and meniscus skiing and thought my marathon days were over, especially once I grew a couple humans. Then in 2022 two things happened:

• I read Carrie Soto is Back by Taylor Jenkins Reid, about a (fictional) late-30s former tennis star who decides to go full send on a comeback. (Do I care about tennis? Absolutely not, see aforementioned comment about organized sports). And I thought to myself, what would happen if I tried really hard at running?
• My friend, at similar age and ability, informed me she had hired a coach. As a non-sports person, I was like, "oh wait really, you can do that?" So I started doing some track workouts with her here and there, and what do you know I started to get faster. Personalized coaching wasn't really feasible financially so I bought a Track Club Babe plan (Fast Fall, then Fast Marathon Level 2) and went for it.

As a frequently-injured runner, I didn't even fully admit to myself that I was training for a marathon until like, July of 2023. I registered for the Maine Marathon with a secret goal of 3:35 (BQ at the time was 3:40). And smashed it, coming in just under at 3:34:XX. Not enough for actually getting into Boston, but 30 minutes off a 17-year-old marathon PR felt pretty great. Unfortunately I did something to my knee, or all the skiing and running caught up with me, because shit was not right in my leg pretty soon thereafter.

After a couple of months of denial, cross training and PT, I went in for an MRI and was told I had a pretty jacked up knee. The LEFT one! Not even the known asshole, missing a meniscus. I won't get into the sordid details, but I'm missing a pretty critical piece of cartilage, and it's not one that can be repaired surgically. At the appointment with the sports med guy I was terrified he would tell me I needed to learn to love swimming (blech, sorry triathlon kids). Luckily he just thought I should back off on mileage, increase strength work, and then see what happened.

Cue the Rocky montage, I spent the winter as a very reluctant gym rat, trying to increase my squats and build up posterior chain strength. I worked with an amazing PT whose background is service members. My knee did not impress her, her attitude was basically, well, at least you have a leg, we can work with that. I dropped to 3 mellow runs a week and then did a "long run" on the weekends, alternating elliptical and stair climber while watching an unfortunate number of episodes of Love is Blind. By late April or so my PT said she thought I could try ramping up the volume and intensity of my running, so I did, and turns out all those squats must've done something because the knee held. I got through about 6 weeks of Fast Fall before...

I started the 18 w Fast Marathon plan from Track Club Babe. Given my injury risk I knew a lower mileage plan was for the better, I only ever ran 4 days/week except at the very end before taper, and maxed out at a 49 mile week. During the build I ran a 10K PR on a very steamy day on a hilly course, so I thought things were looking pretty good. I based all my training on a 3:25 marathon/7:50 pace. Even without much running through the winter, I think beating the shit out of myself on the stair climber plus a lot of hard peloton workouts and the strength stuff worked to keep or even improve my fitness, because paces that would have seemed impossible last year was hard but doable. I also connected with a couple of running buddies who are significantly faster than me, and they made the track workouts MUCH easier to get through.

I had a bit of a setback around the 10 week mark when I got the 'rona, had to take a full week off and then took it easy coming back. I only missed one big long run though, and I had enough time before the race that I didn't panic too much.

I was exhausted by the end of the build though. My spouse leaves for work at 6:30 every day so I have to be back by then for kid wrangling purposes. The midweek long runs got to be brutal, setting your alarm for 4am just does not ever get easy. I was hitting my paces spot on and thought I could do a 3:25 on a cooler day and a flat course, which Bay State promised. My last set of Yassos I averaged 3:22, giving me a big old boost of confidence. And then my very last workout-ish I ran a mile at what I thought was MP but when I looked down at my watch it was a 7:20, so I was feeling pretty confident going into race week

Pre-Race:

I followed Meghan Featherstun's 3 day carb load. Honestly it was tough and I felt pretty garbage by the end of the first day. I am on the meatier side for a runner (thick thighs save lives, etc) and the amount per day seemed wiiiild. Mostly powered through, I don't think I hit the exact amount though, except maybe on the first day. The night before I slammed LMNT and Skratch and snuggled with my friend while watching McFarland (7/10 for pre-race movie) in our hotel. My plan was to loosely follow a 10:10:10 plan, starting out with the 3:30 pace group for the first 10 miles and then slowly drop it down to 7:50 or lower depending how I was feeling.

The morning was pretty good, drank my coffee, scarfed a bagel and some grams, had the all-important pre-race poop, popped an immodium, and then got to the start with enough time to porta potty again but not so long to allow my pre-race anxiety to spiral out of control. The weather was a bit warmer than ideal for me (I am a very sweaty human and heat/humidity are not my friend) but not the worst. I had two 8oz fitly water bottles in my shorts, a Nathan hand-held with LMNT, and roughly four thousand Never Second gels stuffed in my race crop.

The Race:

I looked around for the 3:30 pace sign and couldn't find it. 3:20? yup! 3:40? There it is! No 3:30. A bunch of people standing around my vicinity were also looking for them, so I figured I was probably in the right place. Finally about 15 seconds before the gun went off I saw the 3:30 pacer for the first, and last, time. (Foreshadowing!)

Within probably five minutes of starting I knew that it was not going to be my day and my A goal was out the window. For one, the 8 minute pace that felt like a walk in the park a few days prior felt a little spicy. The pacer also went out HOT, clocking 7:50s from the gun. But that's not my race plan! I hung on for a couple miles but kept telling myself to run my own race and not worry about anyone else. But the downside was, I found myself pretty quickly in no man's land between pace groups. I literally chose this race because it promised fast and flat, and a lot of people run it for BQs so I thought there'd be a good number of people in my pace range. And there were, but they pretty quickly strung out. It did mean I wasn't doing a lot of dodging and weaving though, and honestly considering how the day went I think that would have put me over the edge into DNF territory.

Bay State is a 2 loop course, and by mile 5, which is also by the mile 15 marker, I was already thinking to myself "oh wow by the time I'm here again I will be feeling BAAAAD." My stomach felt super bloated and gross (too many carbs? who knows!) and my half tights already felt like they were digging in to me. I rolled them down for some relief so my mom tum was on full display the whole race. I choked down a NeverSecond gel every 30 minutes or so, alternating between caffeinated and non. There were maybe 3 miles in there that felt nice and not impossible, I think around 8-11. But the pace felt hard from the get-go, validated by my Coros that gave me an average of 165 - normally MP is more in the 155-160 range for me.

By mile 10 I knew this was going to be a gutting it out situation. The back half of the course is really nice, flat with lots of shade, and along the river. So I tried to enjoy it while not thinking about having to do another whole loop. At mile 12, again NOT EVEN HALFWAY, you go over a metal bridge and start the second loop. The bridge itself has kind of squirrely footing that did not feel great in my fancy supershoes. At this point it would have been so, so easy to bail. But I thought about all of those dawn patrol workouts, all of those long runs when my spouse had to solo parent for most of the morning, and then, let's be honest, most of the rest of the day when I was fit only for lying on the couch, and my dream of qualifying for Boston with enough of a buffer to run the race.

So it was time to buckle down. I tried to keep within sight of the 3:30 group, which was made easier by a lot of long straightaways. Once I got past the midpoint I started counting down. I tried to do some runner math on how slow I could run and still get a BQ, and hung on to just under 8 minute mile pace for dear life. With the second loop, I kept telling myself, "well, at least you don't have to run this any more times!" There was also a lot of reminding myself that I gave birth twice with no drugs, the second time on pitocin, and another hour would feel like hell but not as bad as that. I also looked forward to the leafy back stretch, and coming through the finish.

Around mile 21 my glutes started throbbing. Why? No idea! I had done a ton of glute strengthening before and during the build, so maybe they were coming late to the party to try to get me through the final miles but then promptly flamed out? I felt like I was shuffling in the last few miles, trying to do math on how many minutes were left, but math is damn impossible at that point in a marathon. I also could. not. fathom. downing another gel at the 3 hour mark, so I didn't. At that point it was getting pretty warm so would grab two cups of water at each aid station

Finally. FINALLY! The mile 25 marker came into site, and with it the last bridge. I gutted it out and tried to finish strong while dying on the inside. My friend, who had run the half, had somehow managed to make it back to her car and then out onto the course, so I saw her with a sign for me "Hopkinton or bust!" That gave me the final push I needed. Coming through the finish I somehow managed to raise my arms and not go straight to pause my watch (thanks, Keira D'Amato for the tip!) and got an actually pretty good finish line pic! 3:30:XX, a PR by a few minutes and *hopefully* enough of a buffer for Boston '26.

Post-Race:

I just kept thinking "wtf, why was that so hard? I was in way better shape than that!" I must have looked like hell too, because one of the medical guys came over and asked me a bunch of questions before deciding that while in rough shape I was not at risk of imminent demise. When they gave me my medal I promptly burst into tears. I think it was mostly relief that I didn't have to run anymore, mixed with a spot of pride that I had actually gutted it out to finish. I quickly found my friend and collapsed into her arms, then promptly found a patch of grass and gingerly flopped in it. I eventually roused myself and limped over to the food tent. Baystate has hot soup for finishers, which sounds weird but a warm, salty, chicken noodle was nectar of the gods at that point.

Biggest postrace issue was nausea. I honestly felt like I had the flu for like 3 days, and it was hard to motivate myself to eat anything. I actually thought about taking a pregnancy test (impossible or at least highly unlikely) because it felt so much like first trimester. Legs felt pretty good within a few days - thanks super shoes! I also take that as further indication that I didn't fully run out my fitness. Took a full week off form anything and I've been doing some easy, easy runs and going back to the gym to build up my strength again.

Next up, Chicago! I really think I can go 3:25, maybe even a little faster if I manage to keep my knee together this winter/spring. And I'm kind of tempted by a local trail 50K in the spring. I wouldn't race it, I just think it would be fun. The weird thing with my knee is it seems to like mileage - "motion is the lotion" as my PT would say. When I backed off entirely after the race, it actually felt worse. I don't think I would try for any higher mileage than this build, maybe just some higher intensity cycling/cross training.

Even though I didn't make my A or B goals, I'm maybe prouder of this race than others where I achieved my goals. I wanted to quit almost from the start, and at the beginning of the year I wasn't sure I'd be able to run another marathon EVER, let alone a 3:30. And it's the hard ones that really show your mettle, right?

One weird thing, and this is where the request comes in - Bay State added 30 seconds to my time! There was definitely an issue with my chip, they have the chip tracker thingies at several points along the course but mine only pinged a couple of times - my family wasn't really able to track me. The day of the race I looked at the results and it gave me the exact finishing time I had on my Strava/Coros. But then the next day when I looked again they had added 30 seconds, so it matched the gun time but not when I actually crossed the start. I know with Boston every second counts. I reached out to organizers through the only email address I could find on the race site but haven't heard back. Anybody got a contact?

Race Information • Name: TCS New York City Marathon • Date: November 3rd, 2024 • Distance: 26.2 miles • Location: New York City, NY • Website: https://www.nyrr.org/tcsnycmarathon • Strava: https://www.strava.com/activities/12815885846 • Time: 3:33:35

Goals

Completed? A - Sub 3:30 - No B - Sub 3:35 - Yes

Splits 5km - 05:15

10km - 05:09

15km - 05:07

20km - 05:05

HALF - 05:05

25km - 05:06

30km - 05:05

35km - 05:05

40km - 05:05

FINISH - 05:04

Training I started doing some triathlons on 2019 with no previous experience other than a 5k race when I was in college? So started from the bottom. Then I did 2 70.3s and ran Chicago last year. My training was pretty inconsistent in Chicago, but I had gotten entry to the NYC Marathon through the 9+1, and decided to get a running coach this time around, mostly for accountability.

Started training around mid March, with a goal of running sub 3:30, even though I knew NYC was a lot harder than Chicago. Did the RBC Brooklyn Half on May while battling a cold, and managed to PR with 1:46, so I thought the 3:30 while ambitious was possible.

Continued my training, but July came around, and I hiked the Tour du Mont Blanc (~100k in 1week) which ended up causing an injury on my left knee and had to stop running for 2 weeks full stop. Recovered, and August averaged 50km a week. Got sick (again) in September, and had to take another week off. It started to mess with my head thinking I wasn’t training enough and would not do a good race. Tried to get back into it and then felt a twink in my knee during a long run mid September, so took another week off bc I couldn’t run more than a mile without my knee bothering me. Also suffered from super tight calves and stupidly did not go to PT until like 2 weeks before the marathon.

Finished October training strong, trying not to let the injuries and time off get to me mentally, and just put the work in. I honestly felt faster than last year. Compared 2 runs, both 25k between last year and this year: -Pace was 1 min/km faster -Average HR was 10bpm lower -Latest run was 170m elevation vs almost flat from last year.

Peak week was 64km, which I understand is LOW from what I’ve read on this subreddit. I was running 4x a week with 2 easy runs, 1 workout, and 1 long run. Only thing that had me worried was my calves were super tight, so got a massage, and prayed for the best. Pre-race Live in the city, so thankfully didn’t have to do any travel. My mom and my sister flew in to cheer for me, and I was super excited for that! Nailed my taper week and nerves started to kick in. Had a race strategy call with my coach on Monday, which honestly did NOT go well. He gave me a plan which was to run at 5:20 min/km for the first 35k and then speed up the last 7km. He said anything below 3:43 (my previous result) was a win. Honestly caught me super off guard so I didn’t say anything, just nodded and thanked him. It was this weird feeling because I knew I was faster than last year, and although NYC was harder, I had trained for elevation, did plenty of hills this training, so I knew I had more in me than a 3:42. On Saturday I got a message from him BEGGING me not to go out too hard, and to stick to the plan. This messed with my head a bit, but I decided to trust my body and go with my gut. Race I got to Staten Island, was a Wave 2 Blue Corral start, and heard they were calling Wave 1, so I chilled. I literally stood around doing nothing, until I realized my wave was about to close so I sprinted towards the Blue village. I did not realize the distance between the entry of the general marathon starting area and the Blue Village/Corrals. I got there just in time, looked for the 3:30 pacer but he was way ahead of me. Saw the 3:35 pacer about 10m in front of me so decided I would follow him for a while and push if I felt strong.

That whole plan went out the window because when we started walking towards the start line, I saw my left shoelace untied, so I had to go to the sidelines and tie it. By the time I was finished the pacer was gone, so I just started running. First mile and I was 30s behind pace. Don’t know if it was my coach’s words telling me to hold back, or everyone telling me to start conservative, but I did not accelerate. Mile 2 I was 45 seconds behind 3:30 pace, so by then I made the choice to try for 3:35 and enjoy the race instead of killing myself for 26 miles.

The energy on this race is just insane. I barely used my headphones the whole race because the crowds were just electric. Caught myself smiling most of the race, and just taking it all in. I had never experienced anything like this before, it definitely helped. By mile 10 I saw a pacer far away, so decided to slowly reel them in and start closing the distance, but Pulaski bridge had other plans and they got a bit ahead again. Crossed half at 1:47 and was feeling fresh, so decided to make a push for it. Caught up with the pacer and a small group of around 10 people, and stayed with them all throughout Queensboro bridge. I started feeling a blister form on my left foot, and had been avoiding a cramp on my left calf for the past 5 miles, but nonetheless I pushed forward.

First avenue hits you like a brick, in a good way. You go from silence and just hearing footsteps, to this enormous roar of people. Felt like a gladiator coming into a coliseum. Saw friends and family cheering for me, and kept up with the pacer. I knew if I finished with him I would break 3:35 because they had started a bit before me. It started to get tough on the Bronx and I remember the pacer yelling “Its gonna get hard, but hang on! 10k left!”

Back into Manhattan and thankfully I had ran this last part a week ago, so I knew what to expect. I saw my mom and sister and hugged them, and almost teared up. Caught up to the pacer and I knew 90th street was closer every second and then it was just Central Park left. I saw so many friends on Central Park, and their cheers gave me such a big boost. By this time my left calf was about to give, the blister on my left foot was getting really big, and my right hamstring was hurting, but I just couldn’t stop. Got into Central Park South with about 1km left, went up to the pacer, and thanked him for everything. He gave me a fist bump and told me to finish strong. Tried to go as fast as I could, started tearing up with 200m to go, and crossed the finish line at 3:33:35. Post-race All things considered, I am super happy with my result. While I didn’t break 3:30, it was a 10min PB on a much tougher course. I nailed my nutrition, I negative splitted, and most important, I enjoyed the race SO much. For next race I believe I need to increase mileage, and also incorporate more strength training to avoid injuries. I know the perfect training block is really hard to achieve, so I’m not too worried about it.

My coach reached out to me after the race, congratulating me. I told him I was sorry I hadn’t followed his plan, but I just felt stronger than that. His response really ticked me off because he said something along the lines of “yeah some days everything just works, and you had one of those” instead of just admitting his race plan was bad. I’m conflicted on whether or not to get a new coach, because while I did not like his race plan and his attitude, his training is what got me this result. Signed up for the NYC Half lottery, hopefully I get in and can go for a 1:43. Made with a new race report generator created by /u/herumph.

A place to ask questions that don't need their own thread here or just chat a bit.

We have quite a bit of info in the wiki, FAQ, and past posts. Please be sure to give those a look for info on your topic.

Link to Wiki

Link to FAQ

Race Information

• Name: TCS NYC Marathon
• Date: November 3rd, 2024
• Distance: 26.2 miles
• Location: New York, NY
• Website: https://www.nyrr.org/tcsnycmarathon
• Strava: https://www.strava.com/activities/12815839065
• Time: 3:28:21

Goals

Splits

Distances

Background

As "only" my 4th Marathon, this was another learning experience of sorts, so I think some context is valuable to understand the report.

I'm a 47M. Started running in 2018-ish, becoming more serious about it over time. Height about 5"10, weight about 160lbs. Not overweight (good genetics), but not athletic. Never been a high school/college athlete. Nerdy, software engineer, spends most of my time sitting.

Had 3 previous Marathons ran:

• Reykjavik Marathon (August 2022): target 3:25:00, did 3:39:00. Never walked. Hal beginner training. Running about 4x a week, ~30mpw.
• Vermont City Marathon (May 2023): target 3:30:00, did 3:37:35. Walked a bit. McMillan training through Strava (very convenient). Running about 4x a week, ~30-40mpw.
• Mad Marathon (July 2023): "fun" race, target 4:00:00, did 4:26:46 (very tough course and weather, kicked me in the nuts). Walked a LOT. No training, just "base". Running about 4x a week, 30mpw.

All of these races had their own great lessons. But I left desiring that sub-3:30 time, and was a bit mad about walking in Marathons 2 & 3.

As a warning... I'll mention a lot of data in this report. I double down on getting metrics and pay a lot of attention to all the data I can get. This is for two reasons:

• I really like analyzing the data; it just works well for me. Honestly, half the fun of running for me is looking at the data after a run. I don't think I go crazy about it... I take everything with a grain of salt. But I still enjoy the heck out of it. So I'm the kind of person who has a lot of fun using Runalyze, and I have a ton of my own spreadsheets with some calculators of my own.
• I'm not a good "instinct" runner. I know some people are like that and they might scoff at those like me who pay too much attention to their Garmin. Unfortunately for me, I have trouble knowing things like my pace, how I'm feeling, how much effort I'm putting into something, how fast I can go, etc. It's just hard, and I'm not getting much better at it over time. So I do use my watch and my data to get a sense of my progression. It works wonders for me! My progression over the last few years is almost solely based on learning how to use that data (and adjacent tools) better, as I'll talk about here.

Pre-training

I have been running a lot over the last year, after that 3rd Marathon. Got my frequency up, from 3-4 runs a week to 6 runs a week. Increased my default "base" run distance too, from about 5k+ to 10k+. Started running to work more frequently (a 10k+/6mi+ commute, carrying a 7kg/15lb backpack), doing it 3x a week and increasing mileage to about 13k/8mi by default, up to even 22k/14mi when logistically feasible (FTR, I haven't had the chance to say "oh btw today I run a half marathon to work, how's your day going?" to my coworkers yet).

My weekly mileage wasn't that higher than before though. It stayed at around 25-30mpw for this base building. And I wasn't doing many long runs - in fact, I was doing fewer long runs than before. While I previously could do a HM run every weekend, now I did that maybe once every 3 months. I just didn't have time due to family obligations on the weekend.

Still, I was coming in hot. I knew I had a much stronger base than before, with just more running under my feet. I also did a 5k "season" from Dec 2023 to Jul 2024 where I became a much better 5k runner and improved my speed and form. Lowered my 5K PR from (about) 22:00 to 20:26 (chip). So I was feeling great for a new Marathon. Got in to NYCM sorta by surprise (I did the lottery and got in), so I decided that was going to be The Race.

I just didn't have a target time for the race yet because the variables had changed. I wanted it to be between 3:15 (effective VO2max based equivalent to my 5Ks) and 3:30 (my original target). I was going to start with a plan for 3:20, and then adapt after a few test races.

That was the general idea, at least.

Training

Part 1: Everybody has a plan

I did a lot more reading over time before I started the training - Pfitz, Jack Daniels, Hanson. I wanted a more advanced, more efficient plan. I also wanted something that worked with my schedule: not only I had a kid (which prevented me from doing very long runs on weekends, and requires my time in the morning/afternoon), but I had a new child on the way. This would make lengthy, 3h+ runs even more of a problem. A PR is not worth of a divorce.

After some reading, I settled on doing a 18-week Hanson's "advanced" marathoning plan. It matched my schedule nearly perfectly: runs almost every day, with a more or less evenly distributed distance, without massive long runs. I was also excited for the speed/strength workouts, which looked a lot more structured than I had done before.

The one adaptation I did was to shift the week by 4 days: Wednesdays became my "long run" days, with everything following accordingly. I figured that I could take a day off from work here and there when I needed a really long run, when my kid was at school. All in all, I was pretty happy with that plan, even proud.

As a preparation, I also did some lab tests (for the first time) to see where my fitness stood. I wanted to get a baseline to see how much I'd improve after my training plan. I got some pretty informative metrics out of it: VO2Max at 67.7 ml/kg/min (much higher than my Garmin's predicted VO2Max of 52, and "elite" for my age according to the lab guy); Max HR at 173 (matching what I already knew); L1/Aerobic Threshold at 154 BPS / 9:15/mi / 5:47/km; L2/Anaerobic Threshold at 165 BPS / 7:30/mi / 4:41/km; and body fat at 20.8%.

In general, I knew running economy was my weak link, and it wouldn't be bad if I lost a couple of pounds (literally).

Interestingly, I also got some leg-related numbers, indicating a severe imbalance in strength between left and right leg. I never felt any issue, so I ignored those. You can probably see where this is going.

It was early July. I felt great and optimistic. But of course, things sometimes happen.

Part 2: Until they get punched in the face

Days after my test, it was the second week of my training plan. I started feeling some soreness on my right achilles heel. It went away briefly and then "moved" to the calf. It didn't bother me as much during running (mostly during walking) so I continued to run hard: commuting to work, running on the heat. I did that for a few days and then it became clear it wasn't improving: it was becoming worse. After a week, I had more pain while walking, but weirdly, I could still run fine.

I decided to "rest for a couple of days" to make it better. It didn't; if anything, it got worse. By then, I couldn't walk without a limp, and couldn't run either.

This was my first injury ever, as a runner. I had no experience with that sort of stuff, and I had botched it. It was clear I made it worse by trying to ignore it.

I went to see a doctor and he diagnosed a calf strain on my leg. Recommended physiotherapy, and said I'd probably be out for a couple of weeks, then back running another 4 weeks.

I was bummed, but truth be told, I was already starting to feel a bit of training anxiety regarding our upcoming baby. I didn't think I'd be able to fit all the training runs around the schedule. That, coupled with the injury, made me decide to skip the NYC Marathon for 2024, and move it to the next year (you can "cancel" once and get a guaranteed entry in the following year).

It was an easy decision, and a very positive one. It made me less anxious: it and gave me freedom to let my body recover at its own pace, without the stress of trying to catch up with a plan.

That said, I didn't cancel my entry right away. I decided to wait and see how things looked down the road.

Part 3: But maybe...

I was out of running for 2 weeks. I biked to/from work on a heavy Citibike (over the Brooklyn Bridge) to try and keep my fitness. Biking didn't affect my strained muscles at all.

I went to PT, which was very "meh" (recommendation: don't see a "generic" PT for running injuries; they can only give cookie-cutter workouts that might not fit the bill). By then my calf strain had extended and was affecting my hamstrings and lower back as well. After 3 weeks of PT I started running again, very slowly at first, to "get a feeling" for it, then slowly increasing my mileage. I dropped out of PT and made my own, more custom recovery plan, targeting the right muscles to aid on recovery.

Running felt very hard! I could barely keep with my previous marathon pace, and reaching my 5K pace for even 200m felt like hell. I could also reach my max heart rate in like 10 seconds of hard running, something I could never do before.

I felt a bit dejected for a week or so. I felt like I was set back years. But I was happy to be back on my feet and improving.

Luckily, things came together quickly after that. It took me about a month (from mid-August to mid-September) to be back at my previous "effective VO2Max" according to Runalyze.

Meanwhile, I was also tracking my GCT Balance (using the Garmin HRM). My balance used to be 50%/50%, meaning each of my feet stayed on the ground roughly the same amount of time. But it was clear after the injury that my leg was messed up: it shot up to 46%/54% (see chart)! This showed I had work to do.

I also started using a Stryd ("Duo") at that point. I wanted to test it out, and my excuse was getting better metrics on how my leg moved (indeed, my L/R steps were VERY different from each other). I used it to analyze my movement, and to read my pace (more on that later), but not much else. I ignored all the "power" stuff the device offers.

At some point, my leg was feeling fine, but with the metrics I got, and some benchmark exercises (like jumping in one leg), it was clear my right leg was still weaker. I started doing more of my own strength training by then: after some research on the subject, I learned some good exercises, and realized I should have been doing this all along (I know, I know).

All in all, I lost probably 9 weeks (of my potential 18 week plan) with this injury. But then I thought, you know what? I feel good, GCT balance is improving, so I think I'll run the Marathon after all.

Part 4: Still forward

I slowly started getting into a rhythm where I tried following my original plan to the best of my ability. I never got to the prescribed volume: the closest I got was probably about 70% of it (probably matching Hanson's "beginner" plan in the end). I didn't want to push too fast, too hard, of course. So at first I wanted the race to be a "fun" run, not an all-out race.

But you know, I'm not a competitive person... I don't care if I'm slower or faster than anyone else... but I certainly care if I'm improving. And at some point I thought, I wanted to see some improvement in this race.

Anyhow, I adapted my plan further. I dropped my 3:15+ target and decided I'd do something around 3:25-3:30. I started training with a 3:25 equivalent pace in mind.

One interesting thing that I did was to plan for a 42.6k run, not a 42.2k. I'm not sure how others do it... but since the length is always longer (even if you ignore/correct GPS discrepancies!), I felt it would be better to plan for it. So my planned paces were a few bit seconds faster than they would otherwise be at.

I also had to juggle my training around my (then) newborn. Some days I couldn't run, some days I had to make it short. I started free-styling the workouts, still more or less around Hanson's original plan.

For example, if I couldn't do the prescribed 16k/10mi tempo run, I'd do a 10k tempo run, followed by 1mi @ HM, 800m @ 10k, and 400m @ 5k. I incorporated a lot more hill repeats into the schedule. I did my work runs (weighted) at a faster pace.

This could have been a disaster, but, surprisingly, it worked super well. I adapted the plan for what I thought I needed, and could fit into the schedule. It felt great.

One interesting thing I did was... incorporate the newborn into Marathon training, in a sense. You see, I need to bounce my newborn to sleep several times a day. And I could only bounce her to sleep by... squatting repeatedly while holding her to my chest! So I ended up doing literally thousands of mini-squats a day with her (at some point I counted 4000 mini-squats on one afternoon). That should have helped my leg strength, I hope. I ended up skipping my strength training several times, and I want to believe those squats are what did it OK (I tried incorporating different workouts into the bouncing, but they were not exactly safe while performed with a newborn).

Anyway. I did have a few long runs (2 HM-distance commute runs to work with the backpack, one un-laden HM at race pace, and one "standard" prescribed 20 mile run: 10k commute run to work, followed by 22k without the backpack). So it's not like I missed a ton of long runs, but it was the bare minimum for a "serious" plan.

Additionally, I didn't do any really good time trials (like, no 10k or HM). But I did a few tempo and progression runs to see how I felt about the speeds. In the end, I settled on a 3:28:00 time target - felt a good compromise between the somewhat aggressive 3:25 and my ultimate target of sub-3:30.

Overall I did about 40-45mpw during training, with a peak of 49mpw at peak week.

Part 5: Knowing the enemy

One interesting thing I did this time was study the course better, and plan better.

On my previous races, I barely knew the course I was running. I just went out and ran. I maybe had a pace in mind, and tried staying on it, but I had no other preparation. In fact, in my first Marathon, I trusted my watch's GPS too much and was surprised when 42km came and went with no finish line in sight! The race was finished with 42.9k marked on the watch. I was so confused; I didn't know better.

The NYC Marathon is one that is easy to study, since it's so popular. So I watched 3 (!) full runs of the course on YouTube, recorded on GoPros; I read all about it; I studied the elevation. I watched all the clowns on YouTube (and some not-so-clowns) talking about their experience running the course. I felt like I knew all there was to it.

I also ran almost all of the course (everything except the Verrazzano bridge). You know, someone asked a while ago on Reddit if they should run the NYCM course prior to the race... at the time I thought this was a dumb idea: it's boring, there's a lot of traffic lights, and you can't run the full course anyhow, so why bother? Go run the West Side Highway or something instead.

But I decided to do it and boy, am I glad I did it! I did it by incorporating it in some of my long-ish runs, or my runs to work. I'd run a different piece of it once in a while, 10k here and there, culminating with the last day, where I ran the last half of the marathon course at race pace, as a sort of a "dress rehearsal". It felt amazing.

Yes, there were traffic lights. Yes, it was annoying running on side streets. But, that gave me a LOT of confidence for the run: I knew what to expect at every point! Several things no one mentioned, the little valleys to take into account, the landmarks to watch out for.

The last part I did better was race strategy and planning. Previously, I had decided on a given pace (say, 5:00/km or 8:00/mi for my 3:30 finish) and stuck to it, until I couldn't anymore. And by "stuck to it", I mean really stuck to it, even trying to ignore uphills and downhills and run the same speed always!

This time around, I was a bit smarter. I planned for uphills and downhills. Also I also did a little bit of a mind trick.

You see, I tend to run too fast at the start, even if I tell myself I'm running too fast. I'm getting better over time, but I know I still do it: I try to "do better" than my expected pace. So my plan was to do a slight negative split. I had done negative splits in most of my long runs and it actually worked well; I was confident. BUT, my suspicion was that I would run a bit too fast the first half of the Marathon, and then lose steam. So the negative split was a way to account for that: if I ran too fast, I could slow down a bit afterwards, getting to an even split in effect. My rational mind trying to account for what my more emotionally excited mind would do later.

Just having a plan is not enough though. Execution matters. This is where something else comes to play: Garmin's Pace Pro.

Previously, for pacing, I had relied solely on knowing what my pace should be, and looking at my watch. Yes, I had used things like the "Race screen" data field, but it wasn't enough.

I started testing the Pace Pro feature of Garmin a few months prior, during my commute/training runs, and found it was the perfect solution. You see, if you feed a prescribed course into it, and then create a plan around it, the watch will match the course - not relying on GPS distance by itself - and tell you what the expected pace is for every split, as well as how you're doing with your expected finish time (your time ahead/behind, etc).

So I spent an embarrassingly long amount of time getting a proper NYCM course map done, with the correct elevation (even the official NYCM map is messed up). I fed it into Garmin, created a Pace Pro plan with the splits I wanted (by arbitrary elevation), adjusted it to be slightly negative, and some uphill/downhill adjustments. I knew that's what I'd use.

Pre-race

The day before the race, I did the usual stuff - fueling, deciding on outfit, going through the routine.

I had decided on fueling by going back to SiS packets, after some months training with Gu (didn't work for me). I've always liked SiS, and their new "beta fuel" was perfect for me. I previously stopped using them because they were hard to find in the US and to be honest I hate their flavors, but they're much easier to buy now (thanks to a new distributor), and the "neutral" flavor is just perfect (due to its lack of flavor). I settled on one every 30 min, so I'd need about 7 packets for my 3:28-ish run. I brought 8.

I also decided that differently from previous races, I wouldn't bring my water handheld. NYCM has plenty of water station, and it was going to be a cold and dry day, so I figured I could finally start drinking water from the course, likely every other station.

For shoes, I used a pair of Vaporflys. I had already had about 40km on them. I had used Vaporfly on some (short) races and long runs and liked them, but this would be my first time wearing them on a Marathon.

For outfit, I picked one of my favorite Janji short tights with 7 pockets. Between gels, phone, a printout of my splits (which I never used), salt packets, and some band-aids, I had stuff in just about every pocket!

My shirt was a standard soccer Jersey from the (Brazilian) team I support, São Paulo FC. This was a deliberate choice. Because I normally get easily overwhelmed and somewhat distracted by people shouting my name (or words of support), I didn't want to do any of the usual "put your name on your shirt" thing or anything like that. Instead, I wore a team shirt. I knew Brazilians would recognize it, and shout the team's name (or one of its rivals), and that's the amount of acknowledgement I knew I could stomach.

My sleep on the weeks prior to the race was pretty bad (newborn and all, waking up every 3 hours or so). But I don't think it affected much. I tried banking more of it by going to bed earlier.

I got a hotel near the ferry that takes you to the start (in Staten Island). I live in Brooklyn, and it'd take me about 30 minutes to get there, but with two kids and visiting in-laws, my wife didn't want to deal with someone else waking up at 5am.

The day of the race, I woke up, did bathroom stuff, took a shower, got some coffee, and headed to the ferry with my clear bag of fueling stuff for the next 2 hours and the race. I was supposed to take the ferry at 7AM, and my wave was Wave 2 (starting at 9:45AM).

Much has been written about the transportation to the NYCM start, so there's not much I can add. I can say the scale of the whole thing is staggering. A lot of people moving from one place to another. Everything went extremely smoothly - from the ferry, to the buses, to the start village. Before I knew, I was there, in porta-potty land.

The start village was very cold (and windy), and I was dressed for the race, not for waiting. But that was the only moment I felt cold, so I wasn't worried.

I ended up using the porta-potties twice (something I usually avoid in races). Too much hydrating. But it all went smoothly as well. I moved around and suddenly, I was on the bridge, waiting for the race to start.

Race

0-5k

The race started very smoothly as well. I had heard stories of crowded starts, lots of people going too fast or too slow, but things couldn't have been better for me. Everybody respected their predicted pace (I was around the 3:30 crowd) and started at a pragmatic pace. I decided to go a bit slow at the start, to get a feeling for it.

My first mile was basically Zone 1. Maybe I was cold, maybe my heart rate strap wasn't working well. But it felt perfectly business-like.

All in all it was the best start I've ever seen of a Marathon, to be honest. Didn't have to swerve much at all. I've been to smaller Marathons that were more chaotic! This might be because I was in the "orange" lane. I felt like the main, "blue" lane, was way more packed. But who knows.

The first 5k came and went. I was feeling great and doing well. As predicted, I was a bit faster than my intended pace. Pace Pro was working great to tell me how I was doing, and Stry was awesome thanks to the more accurate, more real-time pace it provides (even though I had to do proper calibration first). Still, I did the whole thing at about 5s faster (per km) than my intended pace.

5k-10k

The race continued well. I stayed at my pace, still a bit faster than intended. This part - 4th ave - is mostly flat and spacious, so not much to write.

I started with a strategy of drinking water from every other station. Tried the "pinching" strategy and it worked well - just some sips here and there. Overall that part and the decision to not take a bottle was a success, but this race was not demanding water-wise (cold and dry) so not sure there's much to be assumed.

I started picking people in the race to follow, if I felt like they were doing more of my target pace. That's usually my strategy and it worked well. I really admire people who can just run at that same even pace without looking at their watches or something. That's not me, but I admire them. Thanks "middle age Italian dude" and "generic guy in gray shirt", your pace was great for this segment.

10k-15k

After 10k I crossed from the "orange" lane (left side of 4th Ave) to the "blue" lane (right side). That side was crazy! I felt it was a lot more packed, and it had more supporters. I had crossed to see my family, who would be standing from that side. After nearly missing them, I briefly saw my in-laws, high-fived my son, and my wife took a picture. Re-energized and emotional, I crossed back to the orange side.

The run continued as expected. A bit of an uphill, and tighter crowds. Lafayette was one of the segments that made me glad I ran the course beforehand: it has a surprise hill, not very strong, but it can break some people after the relative flatness of 4th ave. I did well there.

Some people were yelling something related to my shirt, in support of the same team. I smiled every time.

15k-20k

The race here was a blur. I was still doing a bit faster than expected - by now, about 45 seconds ahead of my time - but feeling great. Bedford was insane with supporters - I'm glad they had the barricades now! - and energizing.

Some 10 years ago I used to live in Williamsburg, on Bedford. We used to watch the marathon from our firescape. It never occurred to me that one day of be running it. Weird.

Anyway, My pacer here (and for the next 10k or so) was "girl with the puffy yellow shorts". Thanks!

As I was leaving Williamsburg, I started feeling a bit of neck and upper back pain. This is something that always bothers me on long runs, especially when I'm heading to work with the backpack (usually after the first 10k), so I wasn't too surprised. I know my back isn't very strong, and in general I tend to bend down over time as I run. I was trying to make a conscious effort to keep good form and not make it worse.

We approached the halfway mark, and I knew things were about to start. I was stepping into charted, but untrained, territory.

20k-25k

Getting to Greenpoint, and then going over the Pulaski Bridge (HM point), is where I realized I had to be a bit more pragmatic about my pace.

I pulled the brakes a little bit going up the bridge, going a bit slower than expected (maybe 5s below my expected km pace for that segment). I still felt strong, but I knew I had to start conserving energy.

The run after that and before the Queensboro bridge was a blur. I know there was a bit of an uphill here (I felt it during my practice runs) but I was so zoned out, I didn't feel it. I actually remember very little of it.

I ran by a couple of blocks of where I got married, 9 years ago.

Queensboro bridge approached and I was apprehensive. I had done that bridge many times, but I didn't know how it'd affect me now.

The switch from a screaming audience to the clop-clop-clop of running feet was a welcome change, mentally. I slowed down a bit to save energy - about -5s/-10s on my km pace - but stayed steady.

It was a great climb. I felt pretty good. Up to that point, I was mostly on pace with people around me, but that's where I started seeing people dropping.

At some point I switched my pacer to "girl with the Argentina singlet". Hard for a Brazilian to admit.

25k-30k

This is where I reached my true halfway point, somewhere along the valleys of the 1st Ave.

Going over 1st Ave was as expected for the most part. Huge crowds, good running, lots of space.

I didn't felt exactly impacted by the Queensboro climb, but my time was slipping behind; I was probably 10s ahead of my time now (down from 20s), and dipping. But I was fine with this; my "negative split" trick was working.

My neck and upper back pain intensified, though.

30k-35k

This is where I started suffering a bit. Things were getting hard.

For one thing, my heart rate started climbing a bit more than I expected. This coincides with the time the temperature was rising, so maybe that's part of the cause. But I was hitting true untested space, since I didn't have many long runs (and certainly nothing longer than 32k/20mi) during training, and was afraid the lack of long training was coming to bit my sorry ass.

Still, I kept my pace. Dipping a few seconds from my km pace here and there, but still steady and according to plan overall.

At the 33k mark, I started feeling pain on my right knee, something I never feel. I got a bit scared. Luckily, it went away after a while. But ugh. I'll blame all the fast curves of the Bronx!

The back and neck pain got a bit worse. They felt stiff - as if, it was all fine if I didn't move my neck or my shoulders around, but if I did, it was maybe a level 3 sort of pain (from 1-10). It got a bit harder to focus because of that.

When I wasn't paying attention, my pace would start dipping. I think I got to about 20-30s behind my expected time at this point.

At this point, I switched my pacer to "Mari from Brazil". She was a bit faster than me and doing well, and it's probably what I needed at that point as I entered the final 10k or so.

35k-40k

This is a part I am glad I was mentally ready for what was to come.

I tried keeping the neck pain at bay, and kept pushing hard. I was doing more effort than ever, but managed to stabilize my pace to an expected even split.

The 5th ave climb (mile 24) came, and I wasn't too sure how I'd react to it. But I was keeping my pace and energized for the challenge.

To some surprise, it went quite smoothly. I was a bit slower than my expected pace: about 5s slower (per km) than my original plan. But all things considered, I was still in the ballpark of my plan.

I ran up steadily, picking people left and right, going from one group of runners to the next. I had enough space. I never stopped or slowed down. I don't remember getting the back bends. I reached the top and entered Central Park still about 30s behind my time.

That first half of Central Park was... interesting. In my original race plan, I was thinking I'd reach Central Park and then maybe SEND IT when going down the initial hill (Cat Hill), reaching my 10k or even 5k pace, recovery be damned. That's what I had done during one of my pre-race training runs and it felt great.

In reality it didn't work that well here. I was still feeling strong, but I didn't have the legs left to go too fast. I did good speed (slightly below my HM pace I'd say), and regained some of my lost time, but couldn't go much faster than that.

After that, the rolling hills of Central Park seemed to go on forever! I was in a daze and I could swear someone had doubled the amount of time we had to spend in Central Park... it was curve after curve. I did well, but couldn't wait for it to end at this point; I had no frame of reference anymore.

I was so dazed I missed the 40k marker (I was doing "manual laps" every 5k on my watch, but missed that one).

Near the end of that stretch, someone screamed at me in support of one of my jersey's team main rivals (in jest). I appreciated the humor. I like the roasts as much as the support.

40k-end

As the hills gave way to the final stretch of 59th street, I was a bit apprehensive once again. Things were tough, but going according to plan so far... but I know the final stretch was a climb. The climb of 59th would be specially annoying to me: for some reason, I hate how uneven the climb is there.

The energy of the whole event was otherworldly, though. Just the sheer amount of noise muted everything else at this point. Truth be told, the climb came and went unnoticed. I sped up a little bit here, as I entered the last mile, trying to give it more juice and make up for a bit of my lost time. At some point I decided I didn't want to check my watch anymore. I knew I wasn't going to recoup the 30-ish seconds I was behind, but I was going to try and improve things a bit by giving what I could.

I ran a bit until we got to the last 320m ("0.2 miles") and steadily got faster until the end. I was one of those try-hard weirdos passing people 30ft away from the finish line.

I reached the finish line 21s behind my planned time, at 3:28:21, at my 10k-ish pace. I stumbled a bit over the finish line and had to stabilize myself, to prevent myself from bumping onto all the genius runners that decided to stop completely over the timing mat.

It took me a while to understand: I had finished the race. There was no more running to be had. My knees went wobbly. I had some severe (surface) pain on the sole of my right feet.

Post-race

After the race, I did the expected zombie walk out of the area. I walked slowly and in a daze. I tried soaking it all in and not using my phone much. I texted with my wife to let her know how things went. I don't remember much from this part; I was basically looking down. I got my medal, my care package (water, Gatorade, Maurten bar, apple, mini-pretzels), and their AWESOME poncho.

I stopped to put my stuff on the ground to take one of the medal pictures, and then almost couldn't bend over to pick it up afterwards. Soreness overcame me.

I walked out of the park at some point. Things around the area were nuts. Too many people - families and friends trying to meet runners. I walked a bit, slowly regaining my wits. My legs were shot, my neck and back were killing me, but I decided to walk for the blood to circulate and all that. Went around the crowd, on the side streets.

At some point I walked into a Pret and got a sandwich to try and fuel up. I couldn't even eat it. I also spilled half of my juice on my leg. I wanted to take my right shoe off so bad. Yeah, I was still a bit off.

Eventually I walked some more (for a total of 7k or so), got into a subway, and headed back to the hotel. Got a lot of "congrats!" on the way, chatted with a few people (spectators) and probably, maybe, even behaved as a normal person most of the time. I got to my hotel, showered, couldn't nap, changed into civilian clothes, promptly lost my Garmin charger somewhere in the hotel room, checked out, and headed home to help with dinner for the kids.

By that night, my body was almost recovered. Except for my quads, nothing was in pain or sore, surprisingly. The soreness in the quads was expected because of the downhills, and lasted for about 3 days afterwards.

Final thoughts

I think this was an amazing race - one of the races I'm most proud of, and certainly my strongest Marathon.

Regardless of the finish time, it's a race I was able to keep on a even pace all the way (accounting for hills). This is the first time I was able to do it; previously, I'd go at a target pace and start fading away at mile 20, and have a burnout kind of race to the end.

I wasn't able to give as much of a kick at the end as I would have liked, but that's no big deal. I did have SOME kick, and finished reasonably within my target time. My main goal was the sub-3:30, and getting to that with over a minute to spare, feeling good, and not having walked, was exhilarating.

I'm of the opinion you learn more from your failures than your successes. As such, there's not a ton I "learned" from this race that I have to correct. Feels weird! But I think I reaffirmed a bunch of things that were still unproven. Some idle thoughts:

• Using Pace Pro with a planned course and pace plan worked like magic. I'm certainly doing that going forward for longer races. I'm not sure why more people are not talking about it. Maybe they don't need it. But for me, it worked wonders. When I got home my wife was so impressed she told me "you should be a pacer", which is about the best compliment I ever got from my running (thanks, Garmin Pace Pro and random strangers!).
• I'm not super sold on Stryd. I love it for the real-time pace, and I'm enjoying the metrics about leg differences while I recover from my injury. But I'm not sure it's worth much more after that. It's certainly expensive, and the paid premium service (which I'm trying out) doesn't seem to justify itself. Maybe there's some hidden magic behind "training with power", but I don't see it either.
• New York is a great race. I enjoyed it! But I'm not one of those people who think it's "THE BEST RACE IN THE WORLD". Maybe I'm too much of an introvert. But the fact that it's so hard to get into the race is a turnoff for me. It's certainly a spectacle to be lived once. But I sorta want to do more exotic Marathons rather than doing NYCM again, even though I live here. I don't tell people that because they'll probably be mad.
• I'm still a bit surprised at home my re-juggling of workouts worked. I used to be a bit lost trying to follow training programs, not knowing what was important and how. This training left me way more confident on my ability to adapt things to my liking and needs. Next time I'll probably use some variation of a Jack Daniels' plan, but I'll certainly adapt some workouts around my schedule as well.
• I admit things could probably have gone even better with longer runs/longer mileage. I wish I could have done that. But I think this report is a good counterpoint for people who are adamant weekly mileage is the one factor to take into account, that you can't do sub-4h without 70mpw (yes, I've read people saying it), etc.

Made with a new race report generator created by /u/herumph.

Race Information

• Name: Marine Corps Marathon
• Date: October 27, 2024
• Distance: 26.2 miles
• Location: Arlington, VA
• Website: https://www.marinemarathon.com/
• Strava: https://strava.app.link/0KOTwQW9hOb
• Time: 2:55:38

Goals

Splits

For this marathon, I followed an 18-week training block. As my toughest block, it was highly influenced by the Pfitzinger 18/70 plan. Peaking at 102 miles, I found it to be highly effective at producing this breakthrough result.

I was lucky to qualify for a seeded position, so it made pre-race logistics relatively easy. After taking a mile jog from the seeded area, we were able to access the corral from the front. My fueling strategy consisted of Huma caffeinated gels every 2-3 miles, while stopping at all water stations.

Intuitive pacing is what made this entire experience “enjoyable.” Having studied the course countless times, I was able to solidify mental cues that made pace adjustments feel smooth and without anxiety. Anyone familiar with this race knows the first few miles can potentially make or break you later down the road. I held strong until the end, running nearly even half marathons. The final .2 mile hill was the icing on the cake. Haha!

Hopefully this BQ time will stick for 2026! My qualifying time is 3:00.😃

Hi everyone, 29F and have run four marathons, all world majors (NYCx2, Boston and Chicago). Ran a new PR of 2:41 in Chicago. Potentially interested in a small(er) marathon sometime March/April. Obviously I’m used to the crowds and amenities of the big races so nothing too podunk but would be nice to do a race with less corporate to-do and where I might be in the elite field. Doesn’t necessarily have to be a PR course but I’d like to have some competition so I’m not running alone. Any suggestions? I like the look of Mountains 2 Beach in CA but it seems like race organization has been iffy.

Race Information

• Name: NYC Marathon
• Date: November 03, 2024
• Distance: 26.2 miles
• Location: New York, NY
• Time: 3:11:42

Goals

Splits

Training

I've ran 5 previous marathons and all have been under expectation, quite considerably, and I decided this would be my last if things didn't improve! In the past I have topped out at 45 mpw and only for a few weeks. This time I followed a custom Jack Daniels 2Q with peak 50 mpw over 15 weeks, and 5 days per week running. I decided to add an extra day when possible, and ran 50 mpw for 8 weeks with peak 55 mpw for 2 of those. Bar far my best ever training block. Never missed a session and hit most of the paces for the 2Q days.

I found the "easy" pace was actually quite fast, but just about easy HR. And some of the speed was fast too for my 50+ body!

8 weeks out I ran a half in 1.20 un-tapered and thought this should give me a chance of sub 3, but decided to go with 3.05 as I had trained around 7.00 pace for MP. My previous half in my last block was 1.23 and only ran a 3.30 so wanted to try to not be too ambitious. All my marathons have resulted in legs giving way and cardio unstressed. So I have the speed, and cardio, but questions over my legs...

I ran 22 miles, 4 weeks out, with 13 at MP and legs felt great. (In hindsight, I think maybe I peaked here and would appreciate feedback).

3 weeks out 18 miles easy, which felt tough to be honest. Around 7.30 - 7.45 pace. I never ran slower than 7.45/8.00 on any easy days. (8 was slow end of paces in my plan).

I started my 3 week taper with 45 miles, then dropped to 40 and then only a few miles race week. Had to fly from UK to US mid week and did not run in NY as legs felt tired after the travel.

All through the taper my legs were stiff and painful. Never really felt good. Felk ok just before the flight, but still a bit painful.

Pre-race

Cramp has ruined all my marathons and I think this is probably down to lack of mileage and maybe electrolytes etc. I get cramp every night when training hard, so had been magnesium supplementing. Made sure to carb load for two days and had a lot of gatorade / electolytes in the days before and morning of. Was very cold waiting at SI. When I went to my corral my hips already hurt a bit and I was stiff and shaking with the cold even with my layers on! dumped my gear and got ready to go!

Race

Electric atmosphere and not too busy on the road after mile 1. I was in wave 1, corral B and the mile 1 was only able to hit about 8.00 rather than 7.30 target, but made most up on mile 2 downhill. However, I had stiff legs and minor pain in calf and hammies by mile 3. I hoped this would improve as I loosened up. By mile 8 both hips, on the outside, were oh fire. No idea why, but carried on with sticking to the 3.05 plan. I think here was the point I should have slowed to 3.10 pace. Oh well. Any way, carried on at 3.05 pace and at half way knew my legs were too tired vs where they should be. Again decided to push on at the same pace. A few 6.55 / 6.50 miles and over Queensboro. Tough bridge but hip pain went and legs seemed no worse. Got no worse until about 19 miles when legs felt very tired. Slowed here to more like 7.15 mile pace. Then down to 7.30. Then hit mile 24 up fifth avenue. My goodness legs were toast. Ran an 8 min mile here and didn't think I had anything left for the last 2 miles. Luckily mile 25 was down hill in Central Park and the momentum got me back to 7.30 ish. Last mile was ok, and I held the 7.30 pace to finish in 3.11.42. A bit disappointed that legs died again, but pleased that for first time ever I did not cramp, so that was great. I think the extra mileage and MP sections in my LR's really helped here. But have a feeling that I was over cooked by the race day and would have performed better pre-taper. Or maybe I did not do enough during taper. Either way, my legs felt better 3 weeks out. So any advice here welcome! maybe I am going to need 60+ weeks to hit 3.05 or better?

Post-race

Beer and burgers in NYC before flying home. Great weekend in a fantastic city. Looks like my time gets me a guaranteed entry to Chicago 2025. I think this is flat so maybe 3.05 is possible! My BQ is 3.20, so with 3.11.42 I have a 8.18 buffer, but not sure if this is enough? Looks like it would have been this year and with the new lower times maybe a smaller buffer is ok?

Anyway, that's for another day.

Thanks to everyone for all the advice in this sub. Really helped and great to get a 20 minute PB :-)

Made with a new race report generator created by /u/herumph.

Race Information

• Name: Auckland Marathon
• Date: November 3, 2024
• Distance: 42.2km (42.6km if you don't take the corners right)
• Time: 2:59:24
• Website: https://aucklandmarathon.co.nz/ https://strava.app.link/zPDR4P3YhOb

Goals

Splits

Background

31M, have been running on and off most of my life, surprised myself a little with a 1:23:29 PB at the Buller Half Marathon in February this year, so decided to give a real training plan a go and try for sub 3 marathon. I am normally a footballer (soccer) so running always takes a back seat, but this winter I took a year off to train for this race in the hope of going sub-3. This was my second marathon and first time doing a structured training plan (albeit Runna app).

Current PRs before the day (according to Strava) are: 18:14 in the 5k, 39:15 in the 10k (acknowledge that could be faster, I just haven't done one), 1:23:29 HM, and 3:12:27 full marathon.

Training

I did quite a bit of research after Buller HM in Feb and landed on the Runna app as the option that suited me the best for training. I couldn't find a person locally and as far as paying for something virtually, Runna was the right balance of price/engagement. I wouldn't use them again, but I think it was a great option for me at the time as I had very little experience with different types of runs, running plan and managing a training schedule.

I chose a 16 week marathon plan which started mid-July. Typical 3 week build and a deload week in between peaking at around 74km 4 weeks out, something I have learned is actually pretty low now! Got lucky and had no injuries during the whole block, missing only 1 long run when I got the flu for 4-5 days. For some reason the app classified the Auckland Marathon as a moderate elevation race and so had me doing a hill repeat session almost every week, which, surprisingly, I have grown to love. Found the perfect hill where I live that was long enough and steep enough to withstand the longer 90s reps, such an amazing feeling doing 10-15 hill reps as the sun comes up looking out over the ocean - a great way to start the day.

Highlights included:

• absolutely cruising through a HM at MP about 2 weeks out which included full walk through of pre-race morning plan.
• Discovering my local track for the interval sessions once a week.
• Of course, my new best friend the hill repeat session.

Pre-Race

Flew up to Auckland with my partner on the Friday morning and headed straight to the Expo to collect my race pack, this was my first big event so was buzzing after the Expo experience, a lot more freebies than my local events. Spent Friday afternoon and Saturday relaxing and catching up with friends in Auckland, we were staying with some friends in Devonport ~5 mins walk from the start line, something I was very grateful for come race day. I had been so unbelievably nervous in the weeks leading up to this race out of desire to achieve my goal I was surprised to find I slept pretty well on Friday and Saturday nights. Sunday morning was 3:30am wake up for bagels and coffee before watching the PL and relaxing while trying to get the bowels going, a small warm up and walk down to start line around 5:15am. Special mention to my supportive partner who was by my side the whole way and came down with me for the start, didn't even need to do a bag drop this race thanks to her! Hugs with her and my mate who came down to see me off, last dust off of the nerves and down my pre-race gel and I was into the corral.

Race

6am gun to kick us off after the wheelies got away at 5;55am. It was an unusual layout at the start line so I ended up probably further forward than I would have otherwise chosen. Because of that my first km was a little slower as I let the 3 hour pack catch up to me. My goal was to stick with the two 3:00 pacers for the first ~25km and then reassess from there. For nutrition I had 5 Pure Nutrition 50g gels that I prefer over the 35g ones as I can get them down easier.

Kms 1-12 Head down and focus on calming my nerves, slot in at the middle of the 3 hour pack and just try to enjoy it, introduced myself to the pacers and had a small chat, did a lot for my nerves and after that I relaxed a lot.

Kms 13-21 The group got on to the motorway and down towards the iconic Auckland Harbour Bridge crossing in good time. We faced a serious headwind down this 5km fairly exposed section, the group really tightened up as we all huddled behind the two pacers breaking the wind for us. This section was particularly memorable as I was feeling really good and the experience of running in such a tight pack like that, paired with going over the bridge was pretty epic. Once over we hit downtown Auckland and the crowds began to appear a little more. See my partner at the 22k mark which gives me an awesome feeling! I was about to move away from the group at this point so she gets a great clip of me leading a big pack of runners.

Kms 22-38 This part of the race is really good for me, out towards the Eastern Bays, I make a move away from the 3 hour pack with a young guy doing his first marathon, we run some of my best kms as I'm feeling great and we're just chatting away about our experience so far. At the turnaround ~30km I realise why it had been such easy running and we head back towards town with a bit of a headwind . We join up with a couple of other guys and make a nice pack as we chew up the ks.

Kms 38-40 Here the race kind of goes sideways for me, I lose the pack I have been running with at about 37 as I can't hold on and they are all still running really well, drop my pace to about 4:30 and start to hold on. Did some quick math to know that I was going to hit my sub-3 goal as long as I keep moving. The headwind really starts to hurt me and even the smallest hill feels like a mountain to overcome. Frantically gulp down my last gel in an attempt to get some life into me and just try to keep putting one foot in front of another.

At my first marathon 2 years earlier I ran a similar-but-slightly-slower pace but was extremely under-prepared and under-experienced. During that race I fell apart at about 38kms and walked for 6 minutes as I ate the one gel I had with me that came free in my race pack. I thought a lot about that race during this section and gritted my teeth as I knew I was not stopping this time round.

Kms 41 - Finish: Just have to keep moving. Pump the arms. It will all be ok. Focus. Crowd really starts to pull me through this last section. The front 3 hour pacer catches up to me at this point and practically yells in my ear to keep moving. We were going to make it. My timing was slightly off as I ended up doing 42.6 but I still had enough time to go under 3hr. Feel the crowd rouse me for the last few hundred meters despite my legs screaming at me. I turn the corner onto the grass, look up and see the clock. 2:59:10. A wave of emotion hits me. You are going to make it. Andrew the 3 hour guy is right in front of me and waves me forward. Go get your time. Physically, I can barely feel anything at this point but emotionally, I feel everything. Overjoyed, relieved, grateful, immensely proud. I cross the finish line and don't really know what to do, can't stand. can't see. I just wobble over and lie in the shade. I lie there thinking about all the work I have put in, countless early mornings in the cold, clocking up those miles, its all added up to this. Elation. Not sure how long I lie there for. I chat to a nice lady for a few minutes who was running near me for some of the race, we swap times and congratulations, the conversation brings me slowly back to reality and I figure I need to get moving.

Post-race

I gingerly walk through the finishers area and sip on some electrolyte drink. See my partner and friends waving at me, can't even wave back, just smile. I move through and meet them out in the open, a big hug from my girlfriend and the tears come. More relief than anything, she knows how much it has meant to me this year. We head off and I buy some post-race Birkenstocks as I've lost one of my toenails and can't roam Auckland CBD barefoot. Breakfast at the ever-fantastic Amano in Britomart for a post race debrief. We spend the rest of the day relaxing and I have a much deserved nap.

3 days on now and I am looking ahead to the Queenstown marathon in less than 2 weeks, pressure off for that one as I've hit my goal, so a chance for me to enjoy the run. Thinking about what's on the cards for me next, I know I could work on my finish and easily shave a couple more minutes off my time. But equally wondering if the HM distance is better for me for chasing times, and I could focus on doing a couple of Ultras next year.

Thanks for reading!

Reading the thread from yesterday on longer long runs in marathon training, I found myself a little frustrated at the direction the discussion ended up taking. Most commenters focused (quite fairly, I’ll add) on pointing out what was missing in the OP’s framing of the issue: that the frequency and duration of longer long runs should be determined by the overall volume the athlete in question is doing. Consequently, a lot of the discussion amounted to “overall volume trumps total number of longer long runs in marathon training.”

This is of course true. BUT I still I think it was a missed opportunity for us to get beyond re-iterating generic training principles. I suspect there’s actually a fair amount of nuance to the question of how to implement longer long runs in training, specifically for the volume-limited competitive marathoner. For anyone running ~80+mpw with any kind of consistency, the ~20-mile/2h+ long run should be relatively simple to schedule, because it’s at most 25% of the weekly load. But there are a lot of us on the sub who aren’t close to that point with their chronic volume build, and yet still have competitive aspirations at the marathon distance. Longer long runs (specifically those done at a strong effort or that integrate a workout, I’m less interested in the lower-impact LSD) are probably the most race-specific sessions of a marathon block. (Or maybe not! Idk, persuade me!) And while it’s true that the long-term solution for the ~50-60mpw marathoner trying to run a competitive marathon is to get his/her overall volume up to 80+mpw to support more of those big, race-specific sessions, that doesn’t actually answer the question of if/when/how to utilize the longer long run for the training being carried out in the meantime.

So, what do you think? Help me steel-man the benefits of pushing beyond what is a conventionally “sustainable” long run in marathon training. Or help me figure out more robustly why it’s not worth the accompanying risks.

Some specific questions for discussion:

-What are the physiological adaptations that we can expect from the long long run in training?

-Do any of these adaptations benefit shorter aerobic events (eg 10k and under) that we don’t normally associate with the long-long run? Are there reasons for running, eg, over 15 miles (and at what frequency) if you’re, say, a 60mpw runner training for the 5k?

-How do you feel like you cope with hard 20mile/2h+ long runs when you’re running at different volume thresholds? Those of you running 60 or less, what do you feel like you get from pushing into that range (versus a more "sustainable" 15-16 mile long run), and what does the recovery look like as compared to, say, a challenging threshold or 5k pace workout?

-How do you think the long-long run compares to other creative strategies for fatiguing the legs to build muscular endurance in marathon training (eg stacking MLR days), especially for those on limited mileage?  

-When/how/with what frequency would you implement the long long run (run at a strong effort/w a workout) in a marathon build for someone running 50-60mpw?

Race Information

• Name: 🗽 NYC Marathon
• Date: November 3, 2024
• Distance: 26.2mi
• Time: 2:59

Goals

Splits

Background/Training

Started focusing on running as a sport last year, with a 1:23:high in the Philly Half almost a year ago, which I thought put me on the right track for a sub-3 this year at NYC Marathon - which would be my first marathon. Unfortunately during my spring build for a HM I got injured (extensor tendinitis) at relatively low volume (mid-40s mpw) but with a probably too-long LR, which more or less derailed my spring (I ended up running a 1:25:mid in a warm spring half). Over the summer I did some speed work, with a goal of going sub-5 in the mile (which I did!), and then started building (rather late tbh) - interestingly I peaked a bit lower than I did for the Philly Half (54mi v 56), but I was much more consistent with overall mileage, averaging 47mpw for the 10 weeks up to 2 weeks out, with 4 weeks in a row above 50.

My training followed my run club's plan, which is typically a threshold/tempo workout on Tuesdays, speed day Thursdays, LR Saturdays. Mid build I needed to visit a PT for some hip flexor pain that was very quickly and easily diagnosed and fixed as an overactive glute on that side. Some peak days were 18mi w/ 14 @ MP (nailed!), 20mi LR, 23mi w/ >900 ft elevation gain (similar to NYC's total gain), and 22mi LR course preview w/ 4 @ MP (which was pretty brutal tbh, it got warm and humid), and 10mi @ MP, and twice I did 12k Canova Ks. Felt pretty good that with a taper I could aim for that pace, especially in super shoes.

Cross trained twice a week (volleyball one day, PT exercises and abs the other), also no caffeine for 10 days pre-race per tradition for me. 3 day carbo load (550g/day, still sucked to do tbh).

Pre-Race

My decided strategy was to positive split - start conservative up the bridge, dial-in in BK, then loose a bit on the hills in the back half. Barely slept, wake up, foam roll, tea, oatmeal, shower, bathroom, drive over with a friend. Underdressed for the starting temperatures tbh, and the wait is long. Drank a full Maurten 320 in the village, did a sudoku, did my business. In the corral as I stripped my hoodie my HRM came off and I threw it away without my noticing, which kinda sucked tbh, when I realized at the start line. Chatted up some folks, and eventually found my calm as we walked over to the starting line. 3 hours of being a nervous was finally over.

Race

Cannon goes off and I go pretty chill up the bridge, splitting a 7:13 (still much faster than the 7:25 I was aiming for), and charged a bit too fast down the hill in 6:16, and then the race is on. I have a lot of trouble settling into a rhythm to be honest, and my watch is constantly giving me splits for each mile that's elevation based. The biggest mistake here is definitely going out too hard, and despite a few minutes here and there chatting with friends and teammates, I failed to reel myself in. Too much ego. Also my feet started hurting pretty early on (maybe i over tightened when lacing :x) and my calves started getting pumped early, which I wasn't expecting and gave me a lot of self-doubt. I had worn the same shoes for my 18 w/ 14@MP, and hadn't had any issues then.

Overall my pacing goal was 10/10/10 - first 10 with the head, next 10 with the legs, last 10k with the heart. Great energy all through Brooklyn, I feel totally relaxed through 10, but obviously failed the first 10 with the head of not going out too hard. But still relaxed through 12, where I start feeling the need to push a bit. Take the Pulaski nice and easy, splitting 1:28, over a minute faster than plan (ruh-roh). Queens is chill, and then take the bridge once again nice and easy. It was nice knowing that my pace plan had like a 7:15 up the bridge, and it helped me relax and not go to hard.

1st ave was lovely, but started feeling the sun and the pressure around mile 18-19/30km. At this point I pass a training partner who is in rough shape, and we exchange some words of encouragement, and I grab him some extra water at an aid station.

Nutrition strategy was a Maurten 100 every 5K, alternating normal and caf, up till 35k then stopping. Grabbed water at every aid station (maybe except the very first, don't remember), started grabbing 2 waters around 18mi/30km, probably should have started on that sooner. Nailed the gels no problem, taking them over the course of 1/3rd - 1/2 a mile at each 5k mat.

At this point in the race I started doing a lot of mental math on how much I could slow down (or "give back" as I was telling myself) and still go sub-3. I thought I could go <2:59 (and honestly maybe <2:58 if I raced smarter), but I didn't want to race for seconds and then miss the sub-3. I was no longer running smooth, and most of the feeling was a bit of dissociation with my legs no longer responding to my brain as well. The crowd energy just became noise, and definitely was starting to tunnel vision on people ahead of me. Got through the Bronx, and the top of 5th ave had some welcome shade. At this point some people I had dropped early were surging passed me - obviously they paced better than I did.

I was dreading the 5th Ave Hill, but tbh it didn't really bother me, the change in form/mechanics was nice I think, and I got to see several folks. "Just make it to the park" I was telling myself, and I did. And then it's just 2.2mi to go and I knew I could do that, despite some calf twinges. I dramatically slowed down near this point, running something like a 7:20 final mile, but tbh I knew I had sub-3 in the bag and I lost the mental will to fight for a sub-2:59 (which I still ended up very close to). Crossed the finish line, and finished my first marathon.

Post-race

The 3 hour pacer did catch me w/ 400 left and I had nothing left but I was pretty confident they were ~30 seconds under. I didn't really know my finish time b/c I never clocked when I crossed the starting line, and I didn't have a total time field on my watch, so took 15 seconds to get that actual confirmation that I went sub-3, and then was relieved and depleted. Limped for a mile until the end of the park (honestly the hardest part of the race right here), and reunited with family who was cheering me on. I have a friend near there who graciously had agreed to let me shower at hers, which was huge.

Free shake shack and levain, and lots of limping. Medal Monday was great (free engraving, free medal portrait), and lots more limping. Still limping today. Surprisingly my calves feel fine, it's my quads that hurt. Lots of eccentrics in my future.

In retrospect, despite going out hot, I'm proud of myself for cooling it earlier and 'giving time back' instead of continuing to push and risk blowing up. Someone here once wrote "when you race for seconds you lose by minutes". And also I'm thankful for the experience so I know better what I need to do next time.

Next up, 2:52/BQ attempt in Jersey City in April. I'm hoping I have ~2:58 fitness right now, and that the flat course will be a ~2:55/56 equivalent, and so I just need to cut 4 minutes in my next block and race smart. We shall see! But first, a month off.

Thank you to this sub for the endless inspiration!

Made with a new race report generator created by u/herumph.

TL;DR: anyone familiar with training plans or books (or whatever medium) that discuss ideas about how to get up to speed in a race faster or practice getting out in a race (handling the first mile or so) without completely undermining the rest of the race? Not sure if this is a thing, but if so I'm hoping someone might point me in the right direction.

For all of my high school, college and post school running life I've had an issue with taking forever to "get up to speed" so to speak in a race. If I go out with a pack of people that in theory I should be competitive with, I often quickly cross a threshold that zaps the rest of my race or makes me hit a wall that takes forever to recover from. I go backwards and I get lost in the mental woods. If I go out easy--I mean, like super easy, if I think I feel good I need to slow down kind of easy--I build my race from there and go after people and finish strong. However, there's a good chance I let people get way too far ahead of me to make up the gap in the distance left. I lose touch and I can't even see them to focus on chasing and often I end up in no man's land.

The problem is, I have a hard time knowing what the ideal going out pace is and how much to let people go without losing them completely. I'm in my early 40s, so I know I can't achieve 100% of the fitness ability I had in my earlier days, but even now in my training runs I'll hit the first mile in 7:30 and it feels like I'm making too much of an effort, but then the second mile I'll feel like I'm making the same or less effort and suddenly I'm cruising at 6:50 pace or faster and I feel great (note: my runs are generally between 7:30 and 6:00/mile depending on where my fitness is, and 6min range to sub 6 for farlek/tempos). Depending on the run, I might keep trending down from there and it never feels as hard as the first, slow mile--unless of course I'm making a specific effort to push it toward the end.

A 10-15 second drop would seem unremarkable, but 40+ second drop from mile 1 to 2 seems crazy to me. I do get a warm up in most days, but that doesn't seem to make a major difference, though I'm not going on like a 1+ mi warm up and spending a half hour doing warm up exercises. On race days, even a solid 20-25 min warmup doesn't get me ready to hang with people off the start line. It's seems like my circulatory/respiratory systems take forever to kick into high gear. I would admit age is the main issue, but this is not a new phenomenon for me. Granted, in high school, 6:45-7:00 was our regular start off easy pace (except for long runs), but the same issue occurred.

Are there recommended workouts that involve going out hard the first mile and then easing into a slower pace and teaching the body to regain composure and settle in for the duration until the last push/kick? I would like to be more competitive in my age group in road races, but I feel like this is a huge barrier to it.

I ran my second marathon this weekend and it went worse than my first. Had a super successful training block with nearly two full months at 60mpw (highest ever by a lot), and was coming off a half marathon PR in the spring of 1:31. I went out for a 3:23 and was derailed by stomach cramps (a recurring issue) and vomiting beginning at the half, and had to walk the majority of the second half of the race. Because of that, my legs actually feel pretty good just two days later. Now I'm wondering if I should try again in a few weeks so as to not waste all of the summer training. Thoughts?

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https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a62810736/matt-choi-dq-nyc-marathon/

He got what he deserved. Hope USATF bans him next.

Edit: Runna also dropped him from sponsorship.

Race Information

Name: Auckland Half Marathon Date: November 3rd, 2024 Distance: 21.1km Location: Auckland, New Zealand Time: 1:17:43 Goals

Goal Description Completed? A Sub 1:18:00 No B Sub 1:17:00 Yes C Sub 1:16:00 No Splits

Kilometer Time 1 3:27 2 3:42 3 3:37 4 3:36 5 3:35 6 3:34 7 3:31 8 3:35 9 3:37 10 3:39 11 3:36 12 3:32 13 3:44 14 3:51 15 3:49 16 4:12 17 3:42 18 3:31 19 3:37 20 3:37 21 3:34

Training

Started a training block in mid August, first relying on the runners world sub 3 marathon plan and in mid September I switched to a 6 week plan that I had failed to execute earlier in the year for another race. My highest mileage was 83km but was on average doing 70-75km. My week’s were structured with an easy 50 minute Monday, intervals on Tuesday, easy Wednesday, tempo Thursday, easy Friday and Saturday and Sunday 90-100 minute sessions with intervals. Each week of the 6 week block I would pick up the pace and distance for the intervals. The hardest interval session was two weeks pre race consisting of 3x5km at 3:38-3:42 pace with 5 minute rests in between. I was also running these sessions during the middle of the day so would normally get quite hot and struggle to finish.

Additionally I love the gym so I normally do 60 - 70 minute sessions early in the morning 4 - 5 days a week, with a bro split and a powerlifting emphasis in benching and squatting. I managed to hit a 150kg squat and 125kg bench press the week before the race at 88kg body weight.

Pre-race

On Saturday I made sure to hydrate, supplement and eat well, focusing on carbs. Had 4L of water, a Maurten 320 spread out through the afternoon into the evening and zinc and magnesium for sleep. Got a good night sleep, huge contribution from my 5 month old here as she slept 8 hours straight so I didn’t have to get up in the middle of the night to put her to sleep. Got up at 4 am allowing enough time for to empty the body, breakfast consisting of cereal with almond milk, had a shower and a relaxed drive to Davenport while keeping up with the All Blakcs impressive win and Liverpool’s win from behind. Both helped me take my mind off things. Sat for about 30 mins in the car with my mate watching the games and then headed out. It was really chilly, but that felt like a good thing as I had done all my training in middle of the day sun, normally above 20c so it felt like things should be easier. Mind there was a lot of wind and I spent a lot of mental energy trying to figure out what the hell a southwesterly would mean for the race. I would find out soon enough.

Peed once, warmed up with 3 mins at 3:50 and some stretches. Decided I needed to pee again but the queue was massive so gave it a miss. I would have to run with a slightly loaded bladder. Took a caffeine gel 15 mins before the start. Plan was to take one every 30 mins. Really should’ve done every 25...

Race

Pre race I told my wife that I needed to make sure not to get carried away with the start and hit my goal pace without exceeding it. Well, I blew past it by 11 seconds, doing a 3:27. It didn’t feel difficult, and the HR sat in the 160’s. There was a guy I know is much faster than me right next to me and immediately realised I was overdoing it. Managed to slow down and relaxed for the next 11km at a pace of 3:35 and felt pretty good doing it. Snuck in a couple kms under 3:35 in the stretch to the motorway without feeling taxed, so I was very surprised about that. I tried to not fight the hills too much and spring off my toes in the downhills. Took a caffeine gel at 30 on the dot just past the 9km mark. In previous years km 12 is where I make a mental note of how I’m feeling. Two years ago I felt great and got a PR, last year I felt terrible and lost 10 seconds to the previous year, this time I made up 6 seconds on on my PB run clocking in at 3:32. Confidence was there and I was dreaming of keeping this pace to get in the 1:15:00’s as I was currently at 3:35 pace and had a runner with me who was clearly fit enough to keep up that rhythm so I hoped to tag along as much as I could.

Now, I knew this was coming but I didn’t realise how bad it would be. The headwind from 13 to 17 was absolutely horrendous. Nowhere to hide, just me and the Ironman working together but not really able to break the wind, getting absolutely demolished. At times we would be joined by navy female runner, she looked a lot fresher than I did so I figured I wouldn’t chase her, the wind did seem to slow her down a little bit more than us though (found out later from her that she has an injury so that’s a shame) I lost 70 seconds in this stretch and my average pace dropped from 3:35 to 3:40. Putting me outside of beating 1:17:00 by a few seconds. The bridge was particularly bad, clocking in at 4:11 compared to 4:00 last year and 3:55 the previous. By the top I was ready to throw the towel on reaching my goal, my legs were like lead from the climb. An elite woman just breezed by and Mr Ironman took off with her leaving me on my own. I was supposed to take a gel here but I didn’t feel like I had the energy to pull out the gel and eat it, it normally throws my running technique off while I do it and spikes my HR because I have to change my breathing pattern. The mind was questioning everything but I said to myself, 5km to go, get back in the 3:35’s using the downhill as momentum and you are back in the chase. So closed my eyes, and heaved my way through westhaven. HR beating at 185 it was all or nothing. Checked my watch what felt like every 100m.

Final stretch by winyard quarter, legs are heavy as bricks, I was making up the time but not sure by how much. Just before VIC park is the true 21.1km mark and I think I crossed it just at 1:17:00 but not sure at all - just trying to concentrate on moving and keeping the legs turning. Turn into VIC park, see the clock still in the 1:17:00’s and just pressed go with all I had. Clocked in at an official time of 1:17:43.

Post-race

Had a little lie down at the finish line, next runner wouldn’t arrive for a minute or so which gave me a little reprieve that I wasn’t in the way. I think the videographer had a good time filming my obvious pain. Got up, took my banana, water + electrolyte, met my wife and kid who had a race of their own to make the finish line before me. Checked the event’s app and found that it was good enough for 29th and 5th in age group! Lucky I’m in the 35’s category now 😅

Checked Strava. “Congrats! You’ve just set a PR in the half Marathon”. 1:16:56 🫨🫨🫨

Until next year 🙏

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In the past I've done a total of 3kms consisting of jogging with some strides towards the end, aiming to finish this about 10 mins before the race starts. During this 10 mins I'll have a nervous pee, a mouthful of water and bounce around to keep the legs loose.

Then in some recent training sessions I notice how much easier my running feels after 30+ mins of running. I've gone out on group runs where I've done 60 mins of easy running with the group, but then tack on some threshold efforts afterwards and they feel great. I have to consciously back off because I find myself going just a bit too fast.

I don't think I should do an hour of warmup before a 5k, but I think my body is telling me my 15 min routine isn't enough. Keen to hear some input.

Background: Chronically injured (achilles tendonitis and plantar fasciitis) weekend warrior in my mid 30's. I saw a post about cross training and thought I would share my experience. I've been running my whole adult life completing 2 marathons (early 20's) and then focusing on 5k's (much easier to recover from). I decided in July I wanted to actually train for and race a half marathon so I signed up for the inaugural Las Vegas Marathon.

Training: Due to my penchant for injuring myself when getting above 50 mpw I decided to employ a cross-training strategy to build fitness and maintain health. I structured my training as follows:

• Early training Block: (8 weeks)
  • 1 running workout (Threshold, intervals, hills)
  • 1 cross training workout (details to follow)
  • 1 two+ hour easy cross training day
  • 1 long run (started at 8 miles for me)
  • 1 easy day of running
  • 2 days rest
• Later training Block (7 weeks)
  • I maintained the above schedule with two differences. 1) the last 5 weeks I dropped the cross training workout and added a less intense running workout. 2) dropped a rest day for an easy run. My long run topped out at 14 miles and my total weekly running mileage at 38.
• Cross-training
  • 2+ hour sessions: My focus here was build my aerobic base and get strong. During these I tried to keep my heart rate below 140. A typical session would look like. 30 min swim, 1:15 bike, 15 minute row. Often followed by weights. I really struggled mentally to do 1 activity for over 2 hours so I broke it up with different activities.
  • Hard Sessions: I focused on long intervals and threshold sessions. 20 minutes on-10 minutes off x 3. I tried to get my heart rate above 160. I would also do 1 hour at what I would consider a tempo running effort. For these I used the bike and the arc trainer.
  • I tried to be flexible in my training plan. If was was feeling sore or had discomfort in my achilles I would drop an easy run for a cross-training session. I tried to focus on making my 1 running workout, 1 cross-training workout, and long run quality and not stress about the rest of the days.

Race Day: Race week came and I was feeling fit but apprehensive about my lack of running mileage and never having raced a 1/2 marathon before. The course was had a gentle downhill the first 6 miles and then flat with lots of turns the second half. Based off of training splits I was aiming to go sub 1:18.

The night before and morning of the race I went through the customary "why the fuck do I even do this" ritual. Race morning had cool temps with lots of wind. When the gun went off a group of 5 runners jumped out ahead. They were probably running 5:30 pace and I knew that anything under 5:45 was probably too spicy for me. I made the tough decision to run in no-mans land and watch them ever so slowly pull away. At mile 4 I noticed two of the runners started to drift back to me and by mile 6.5 I had caught them. At halfway I was in 4th place.

Once the course leveled out I was worried how my body would respond. I had been running 5:43-5:49 on the downhill. I tried really hard to maintain my cadence and not slow down and from mile 7-10 I averaged 5:50 pace. At mile 10 things really started to hurt, but around this time I noticed that guy in 3rd place was in view and was looking labored. I had a decision to make. I was already on the podium (1 person ahead was a woman) and well on pace to meet my goal of sub 1:18. I could play it conservative and coast it or I could up the pace and try to compete for a better placement. I knew I would regret it if I chose the former. I dug in and accelerated.

Ever so slowly I started to gain, but I could tell my claves were started to cramp (those tiny twinges before a full cramp). At mile 11.5 I caught and passed the runner in 3rd place. For the next 1.5 miles I thought about the hours of time I put on the bike and the intervals around the track by myself in the dark. I wasn't flying but I was able to average a 5:53 those last two miles.

I finished in 1:16:33 and 3rd place overall (2nd in my gender).

Conclusion: I was pleasantly surprised how much fitness I was able to build off of relatively low mileage and am looking forward to continuing to incorporate cross-training in my future racing endeavors. I don't think it's a great substitute for running specific workouts (tempo runs and track intervals), but I found it to most helpful in building strength and aerobic fitness through long 2+ hour sessions.

#TRAINING:

The 2023 philly marathon cycle had left me with a minor hamstring strain that still lingered into April. I tried to stay on top of the rehab and strength work, but it was really difficult at times to know what was working and what wasn’t. That said, by May I felt confident it was definitely behind me. I ran the Cherry Blossom 10-miler in DC and came away with a decent PR off a conservative start.

From there, I got in a few weeks of speed focus, consisting of some fartleks and a hill training block in the late spring/early summer. This got some good leg speed under me as I started to ramp up the mileage again. Late August would kick off my 12-week training cycle for NYC. I raced a 10k in 33:14 off a decent negative split and warmer-than-ideal conditions, which was a good benchmark to start from. A few weeks later, I spun the legs at the 5th Ave mile in 4:25.

My approach going into the main marathon block this time around has been the following:

• Prioritize sleep: I sacrificed this a good amount last year due to controllable and uncontrollable reasons. Tuesday night practice with my running club was something I reluctantly gave up as a morning runner. It is fantastic having people to work with, but my sleep always suffered.

• Medium Long Runs: Go back to MLR the day after the hard session instead of 1 easy day in between like I did the previous marathon cycle. The logic here being to get in more long runs on tired legs. I also snuck in a second MLR on Mondays. I gradually went from 8 miles up to 13 miles to start the week.

• Double as little as possible: I doubled once a week for the most part, on Mondays. There were 2 or 3 occasions where I added a second double.

• No back-to-back hard long runs: I think this was the killer that buried me last year. I got greedy and had a stretch of 5-6 weeks with tough sessions every week. This time around, I made sure to space out the hard long run workouts and only do them every other week.

• Don't neglect strides: Especially later on in the cycle when the mind and body are starting to tire and it’s easier to say “eh I’ll do strides later/next week.”

For my main Tuesday workouts, I split the training block into a CV section, a sustained threshold section, and finally a VO2max section. All 3-4 weeks long.

• 10x1k, 6x3min were key CV sessions
• 5 miles LT, 6 LT, and 6 LT wave tempo were the threshold sessions
• 4x800, 4x1k, and 2x(1k, 800, 600) were the VO2max sessions. I included a 10-12 minute block at LT at the beginning and end of each of these sessions.

The long run sessions were:

• 4, 3, 2, 1 mi progressive.
• 4x5k
• 8mi MP
• 3x4mi MP
• 3x(2k LT, 2k MP off 1k floats)
• "NYC simulator" a couple repeats of (up & down a steep 1 mile hill, 4mi tempo)
• 12MP continuous. I'm never ever nervous for workouts, and generally I am super stoked for them, but that 12MP had me second-guessing big time, which was a first. I was ready to cut it shorter, run it slower, or some other adjustment, but on the day, things just clicked and I was cruising. Ended up negative splitting it from 5:47 pace down to 5:3x.

Week 7 is when I started to feel that infamous marathon fatigue and that cued me to pay closer attention to all the little things.

In summary:

• Total miles for the 12 weeks: 1007.
• Complete days off: 1, due to Covid booster shot side effects.
• Average mileage for the cycle: 89 miles, including about 50+ ft/mile elevation gain.
• Long runs over 20 miles: 8
• MLRs of 10 to 16+ miles: 18
• Gels consumed: At least 80.

I experimented with a sharper mileage drop-off for the 2-week taper. Coming off a 97 mile week, I went down to 60 and then 30 ish the following week (excluding the race) while maintaining the intensity moderately high. I felt super strong going into the taper.

The taper itself was a weird, new experience for me. At the end of the first taper week, I noticed my HRV started dropping, and my resting heart rate was creeping up. This continued into the final week despite plentiful sleep, but the sleep quality was crap. From Tuesday of race week all the way into race day itself, my HRV was steadily dropping, and I felt it in my body, too. It was likely a combination of personal life stress (lots of that going on), fatigue, and a spiraling loop of anxiety that kept feeding on itself. I was anxious that I was anxious and therefore felt more anxious. This was a new one for me and I have never felt this way before, but nonetheless I worked on controlling what I could and taking care of my mental and physical health the best way possible.

I decided it’s best to trust myself and the work I put in (really, what other choice do I have?) and I just needed to hop on a train to the Big Apple and go execute.

#RACE:

November 3rd. 5 years to the exact day since I last lined up for this race, and conditions are absolutely perfect for racing. Low to mid 40s. I go on the famous pilgrimage to Staten Island and make my way to the start village. I find a tent designated for quiet and meditation and I just walk right in to zone out for a while. It was lovely. I eat the breakfast I packed with me; 2 bagels and a bunch of power bars, and some water. Eventually (more like an eternity later) it was time to head over to the corral and exit the athlete village for the Verrazzano bridge. I do a few warm-up exercises and feel as ready as I can be, overwhelmed with gratitude and excitement.

NUTRITION PLAN: I brought 9 gels with me. 4 Maurten caf, 1 regular, and 3 assorted GU gels. I practiced getting down a gel every 4 miles throughout this cycle and I have full confidence it works for me, so at the very minimum I was going to do Start-4-8-12-16-20-24, so 7 gels, and 2 for back-up or to give folks on course who may need them.

HYDRATION PLAN: Water at every water station, per usual. About half a paper cup. Take Gatorade at every other station.

RACE PLAN: It was kinda hard to know what fitness I was really in. 5:40-5:50 per mile felt like it was the “marathon zone” for me where I could lock in and just work without overly straining. 2:31 in Philly last year, and feeling fitter this year, both had me leaning towards a more aggressive target of sub-2:30, but I kept considering that NYC is a tougher course. All the way into race morning, I aimed for a feeling rather than a set pace, and if that lined up with <2:30, great. If it didn’t, that’s fine, I wouldn’t force it.

#RACE:

The start on the Verrazzano was chaotic. Somehow there was a big pack in front of the very first corral that was running what seemed like 9min miles. Surely this is a joke? It turns out it was a NYPD and FDNY wave that got to start ahead of the first wave… Stuck behind them, my only choice was to push through, dodge, weave, and throw elbows to get out of this nightmare of a start. Or perhaps it was a blessing in disguise as it forced me not to run the first uphill mile too fast. Luckily things thinned out a bit at the 1 mile mark, and I was able to stretch the legs out a bit on the downhill mile 2.

Miles 1 - 2: 6:40, 5:22.

Brooklyn was just an incredible party. Miles and miles of beautiful streets and beautiful people cheering non-stop. Bay ridge, Park Slope, Williamsburg, Greenpoint, all showed up and showed out, as they always do. I never really found a pack to run with, but there were a few people who would yo-yo with me through the undulating 4th Avenue then Bedford Ave. I was splitting my watch at every mile marker, and I cannot say I had a positive or negative reaction to the numbers I saw. The effort felt about right and that was good enough for me. I was grinning, waving at the crowds, and really just taking in the experience. Gels went down as planned, water stops went smoothly, and off we were towards Queens.

Miles 3 - halfway: 5:47, 5:45, 5:42, 5:43, 5:42, 5:49, 5:52, 5:39, 5:59, 5:42, 5:52 (half at 1:16:25)

After a brief lull going over the Pulaski bridge into Queens, the party just continued on for another mile or so, then we made the turn towards the dreaded Queensboro bridge. I knew exactly what to expect, but that didn’t make that climb any easier. I did a systems check, feeling ok. Around me are about 7 runners all running at about the same speed. I let out a few encouraging words and urged them to hold steady and focus, and more importantly, I warned them not to get carried away once we turn onto 1st Avenue - all things I myself needed to hear.

Miles 14 - 16: 5:51, 5:59, 5:54

As we descended towards the bottom of the bridge, the roar of the crowds in Manhattan went from a faint sound in the distance that gradually got louder and louder and louder until it turned into a deafening roar as soon as we turned. “Best city in the world, enjoy it!” I yell out to my temporary running buddies. I somehow recalled 1st Avenue being downhill, but I think the first portion is a climb, then it eventually starts to drop. The crowds were absolutely momentous. Exactly as I remember them. I got choked up a bit and worked hard to let my excitement make my current pace feel easy, rather than drag me into a faster pace I would later regret. I hold steady but that urge to go faster does not go away, especially not after I saw my friends cheering for me, then my family who traveled for the race.

Miles 17 - 20: 5:50, 5:47, 5:50, 5:59

Willis Ave bridge takes us into The Bronx. The shift in vibes was apparent and welcomed. Still a party, but with so much more reggaeton. And whistles. So many whistles.

But the party cannot continue on auto-pilot anymore, not the one in my body anyway. The 20 mile warm-up is complete and it’s time for the 10k race. My lower legs are sore and starting to scream at me. The bottoms of my feet are both sore. My one toe in particular must’ve been squished in the wrong way from all the hills and was in searing pain. But I trained for this part of the race. I didn’t train for the easy part that is now behind me. And so I get on with it and remind myself that I will be in pain regardless, so I might as well be in pain for a shorter amount of time than necessary by running faster, or holding steady at the very least.

Coming back down into Manhattan on 5th Avenue, I remind myself that Central Park will carry me home, and all I need to do is get there. By any means. I reach the climb that is mile 24, but it doesn’t feel nearly as bad as I remembered. I keep grinding. I smile at spectators. I utter encouragement to runners near me. “Come on, keep going!” and “You got this!” Again, things I myself wanted to hear. Before I knew it, the climb was nearing its end and I saw the giant screen right before we turn right into Central Park. I am home.

Miles 21 - 24: 5:56, 5:50, 5:55, 6:05

There is nothing like New York. None that I have experienced to date, anyway. The energy as I made my way through the park was electrifying and made me somehow completely dim the pain I was in. All I knew was MOVE. I could not stop smiling. I felt personally connected to each and every single person on the sidelines, and instead of the anxiety loop I had going in, I was in a loop of pure joy. Ear to ear smiles the whole way, so much that my cheek muscles started to hurt. Uphill, downhill, left turn, right turn, foot pain, calf pain, whatever, I’m being transported to the finish line whether I liked it or not. And I loved it.

In a weird unprecedented way, the “800m to go” sign didn’t feel agonizingly far from the finish. I didn’t want this feeling to end. I just kept running, and running, and running. And the crowds kept cheering, and cheering, and cheering. I eventually catch a glimpse of the finish line and urge the crowds to give me one last roar, and they obliged. I blow kisses to this amazing city and run through the finish line.

Miles 25 - 26: 5:56, 6:00

Finish time: 2:33:57. Just under a 10-min course PR for me.

#DE-BRIEF, WHAT WORKED, WHAT DIDN'T, WHAT’S NEXT:

The positives:

• I am proud of this result because I know it’s exactly what I had in me on the day.

• Routine and predictable training schedule continued to work. Once I locked into my schedule, I was running on auto-pilot, and that’s huge for consistent training.

• I did not slack off on strength work this cycle. I also consistently did yoga, at least 1 session per week.

• Race day nutrition continued to work perfectly.

The negatives:

• I may need to consider a longer training block for my next marathon. This year started off a bit rocky, and so I didn’t have as big of a base as I would’ve liked going into the final 12 weeks.

• Stress may have gotten to me more than I thought it did. Between a big training block, work, personal life and family obligations, perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised I was feeling the way I did towards the end of this cycle, and that may have cost me a bit on race day.

What’s next?

• Recovery as usual. Some indoor cycling and easy running when I feel ready.
• Hopefully this result gets me into the NY Half in March, which would be my target race in the spring.
• No marathon for me next year. Hopefully I don’t change my mind LOL.

Thanks for reading. Feel free to ask any questions you may have.

I had a really nice training cycle. No injuries just consistency with steady improvement. Track workouts gave me confidence and I had a lot of fun on the journey. I couldn’t ask for anything more but nice conditions on race day of course.

I wouldn’t mind shaving off a few more seconds and I’d love to hear your race day must do’s to give me that edge!

In high school track I always put my socks on before the rest of my uniform and that allowed me to have a good race ha. A friend of mine always took pepto to calm him stomach. Another girl I know put Vaseline on her legs to keep them warm???

I can’t wait to hear yours.

I'm 32F getting ready for my second marathon in under two weeks. I'm a little uncertain about pacing. I’ve been targeting the 3:10-3:15 finish time range during prep (7:15-7:25 min/mi pace). I had a strong tune-up indicating 3:07:00 may be possible and my Runalyze w/ marathon shape has been bouncing around the 3:05-3:08 space, so I don't want to miss out on going sub-3:10 if this is possible. Runalyze did predict my last marathon time within 1 minute (on the last day pre-taper - note that tapering wrecks the marathon shape estimate because it depends on recent long runs and high weekly mileage).

I was thinking about running miles 1-13 @ 7:20 (3:12 pace), then assuming I’m feeling fine going to 7:15 (3:10 pace) until 20, then speeding up to whatever I can manage until the end. But this isn't going to get me to 3:10 unless I can manage those last 6.2 under 7:05 avg; a tall order if I want to be multiple minutes under 3:10. So should I be trying to hang in the 7:15-7:20 range from the start? Does it even make sense to target specific paces given my watch display value bounces around in increments of 5sec, or should I just aim for a general range the whole time (say 7:10-7:25) making sure I don't see my watch showing anything faster than 7:10 until near-end?

The rest of this is following u/TheRunningPianist’s guide for pace prediction, just extra info -

1. A time from a recent race. I raced a 10-miler in 1:07:07 five weeks before my goal marathon, and I raced a 5k two weeks before that in 19:21.

2. Weekly mileage. I’m following Pfitz 18/55 but at 18/65 (extra easy mileage on the non-prescribed days, 7d/week). I peaked at 65 mpw, hit 60-62 a few other near-peak weeks, and most other weeks have been in the 52-57 mile range.

3. Running history. This is my second marathon, I did my first in the spring of this year. Before this year I had 7 years of consistent ~40-45 mpw base, usually racing something (5k to HM) 1-2 times per year, except covid years of course. For my last marathon (spring 2024) I used Hal Higdon Adv-1 and peaked at 57 mpw - my finish time for the marathon was 3:20, I was targeting 3:15-18ish but my pace slowed 30-45s in the final 4 miles.

4. Any significant interruptions? No.

5. Naturally more inclined toward endurance/speed? I used to suspect speed but I don’t think it’s a strong bias (anymore?).

6. I’m running the Richmond Marathon in Richmond, VA.

7. Any stretch goals? 3:07:xx I guess. My recent 10 mile time is vdot-equivalent to a 3:07:00 marathon, but in my last training cycle my 10 mile time (also had done a 10 mile tune-up before that race) was vdot-equiv to a 3:12 and I ultimately ran 3:20. The ratio of my 10 mile times between then and now would predict a 3:15 finish time this time if we assume my current training yields the same rate of improvement for the 10 mile and marathon distances (but: I think I have more room for improvement in the marathon vs the 10 mile, since I have done many 10 mile races and only 1 marathon, in which I ran out of gas at the end/possibly didn’t carb load effectively + am psychologically prepared this time having done it before).

Race Information

Name: Golden Gate Half Date: November 3, 2024

Distance: 13.1 miles

Time: 1:27:xx

Goal

Description Completed?

A Sub 1:30 Yes

B Sub 1:28 Yes

Splits

Mile Time

1 6:26

2 6:44

3 6:42

4 7:00

5 6:51

6 6:48

7 6:40

8 6:01

9 6:14

10 6:48

11 6:44

12 7:12

Training

I’ve been lurking and learning on this sub for a few months. This was my first half marathon. 30M, ran track in high school and was competitive but picked up running again in April of this year. I’ve been staying relatively fit through other means (hockey & tennis) so I ambitiously went with Hansons Advanced Plan. Hit about 80% of the prescribed plan due to minor injuries, travel, etc. Unfortunately I could not string together more than one 45 mi week in a row which I would definitely try to do next time.

Pre-race

I don’t have a solid basis of comparison but this event did not seem organized well. I arrived an hour prior to start and after walking to the staging area it was absolutely packed. Only about 12 porta potties for 5,000 people so after waiting in line for 15 minutes to pee I gave up and jogged to the start to warm up. I debated finding a bush to relieve myself but decided against it. Got lined up with the 1:30 pacer and although I had bladder woes, I started my race playlist and got ready to go.

Race

My strategy was to stay with the 1:30 pacer as long as I could and to only pull ahead if I felt amazing. Mile 1 felt great, the pacer was just a few lengths ahead but clocked 6:26 and was worried we got out too fast. I think the pacers fast start actually helped me run closer to my potential.

Miles 2-5 went smoothly despite some elevation leading up to the bridge and hung on to the pacer without Much trouble.

Miles 6-9 I knew there was a technical downhill on the north side of the bridge and used that as an opportunity to push ahead a bit. Went too fast and got a stomach cramp running back down the bridge but tried to breathe deep and get the most out of the downhills.

Miles 10-finish Right at the mile 10 marker, the course hit a gravel section. All of a sudden every step felt twice as hard and I could feel my pace slipping. The pain train was in full motion and had to take each section 400m at a time. At mile 12 I was really struggling, the last mile has some elevation and my whole body was screaming at me to stop. This ended up being my slowest split by a considerable margin. With the finish line in sight, I mustered any will I could to push and saw I crossed the finish line sub 1:27:30!! Ecstatic but borderline delirious I stumbled out of the finish corral to meet my friends and family.

Post-race

I did not feel great afterwards lol. I found a place in the grass to lay down. A friend asked if I wanted my post race beer and I just grunted. Got back to myself after a few hours and felt great about my effort. Now I’m asking myself what’s next. Do I dial in my half and try to break 1:27 or do I bite the bullet and try for my first full marathon ? Going to give it a few weeks and reconsider. Right now I’m just excited to rest

Made with a new race report generator created by /u/herumph

https://runningmagazine.ca/the-scene/running-influencer-enrages-participants-at-new-york-city-marathon/

Yet another stunt by this guy who seems to actively think he is beyond any race rules or common decency when running a race. In my opinion, he should be disqualified and potentially banned from future TCS marathons.