Debating whether to driver 3 hours each way for a pancake flat road race (and a points crit!).

My fitness is fairly good, but not standout for my category. I'm slightly heavier than average, but my sprint isn't race winning - about 1200W max. However, IME, at Cat 4 road races I've been in, sprint largely comes down to tiredness moreso than absolute power.

It's a super flat 55 mile/88K road race. I looked at the results the previous years, and it basically always ends in a big bunch. Different than the typical attritional races.

How do such races typically go? I guess if one's overall ability is there, it's a combination of making the race feel hard/long enough, and launching a really long sprint?

I find that positioning IS hard! We'd all want to be wheel number 3 or 4 going into the sprint, but nobody is going to give you that for free.

I'm trying to think of how I could race this! I could just get boxed in and 15th place or something

A little bit of a rant but I really tried to like tubeless tires, I've been riding them for the past 2 years but I think I've finally had enough.

for reference I ride Gp5000 S TR with silca sealant

Here are my thoughts:

On the road tubeless is better, it seals itself or you can quickly put a dynaplug in and keep going

But everything else feels more annoying

Initial set up isn't such a big deal you only do it once, but topping up is always messy, I never really have a clear idea of when it needs more sealant. Cleaning out all the gunk takes forever and makes a mess again. Whenever I get a puncture all the sealant goes to the area of the puncture and my wheel becomes crazy imbalanced.

My valves get clogged after a month or so. When I deflate the tire to put a new valve core in the sealant comes out the sides of my tire making a mess.

On the other hand TPU tubes on a regular GP5000 weighs the same as a tubeless setup if not less. Theres never any mess and according the silca tire pressure calculator I should be running the same PSI as my tubeless setup so comfort is basically the same also I don't feel a measurable difference with 5 less PSI

Plan was to do 8 x 2 min max efforts. I was pretty much doing these as hard as a can. Was spinning over 100 rpm. Breathing was maxed and legs were burning badly. My heart rate was really high at the end...like 191. I was toast by the end of 6th interval.

Was this a good session? Should I have gone easier to do more intervals?

Just curious how far out should someone train before their first race. I was thinking of training this year and join first race early next year.

I’ll explain the intervals a bit more here:

Over unders: • 40 min warm up

4x • 1 min @ 120% FTP • 3 min @ 100% FTP • 1 min @ 120% FTP • 3 min @ 100% FTP • 1 min @ 120% FTP • 8 min recovery

• 40 min Z2 and cool down

VO2 into SS:

• 40 min warm up

4x • 1 min @ 120% FTP • 8 min @ 105-110% FTP

• 40 min Z2 and cool down

30/30 or 40/20:

• 60 min Z2 and warm up

3x • 10x 30/30 or 40/20 @ 140% FTP • 8 min rests

• 30 min Z2 and cool down

VO2/ Anaerobic intervals:

• 40 min @ Z2

2x • 4x 2min @ 130% FTP • 5 min rests between intervals • 20 min rest between sets

• 30 min Z2 and cool down

For example, if you take a 2x20 threshold workout and break it up into 4x10, do you still get the same benefit? Are you still training your TTE at that point or is this a case of taking your medicine?

I'm trying to add some variety to my trainer sessions to break up the monotony on these longer interval sets. I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks.

Edit: this has been super helpful, thanks to everyone who has responded!

What would I be missing by using Gatorade powder vs something marketed specifically for cycling and does it really matter?

Helmet | CdA average | Power at 40km/h | Speed at 250w (km/h) | 40km TT at 250w

1. POC Procen Air w/Visor 0.3501 288.15 38.15 01:02:55
2. Specialized S-Works Evade III 0.3523 289.96 38.07 01:03:02
3. POC Procen Air w/out Visor 0.3529 290.45 38.05 01:03:05
4. Scott Cadence 0.3531 290.62 38.04 01:03:05
5. Van Rysel FCR 0.3531 290.62 38.04 01:03:05
6. Giro Eclipse 0.3541 291.44 38.01 01:03:09
7. Trek Ballista 0.3542 291.52 38.00 01:03:09
8. Trek Velocis 0.3549 292.10 37.98 01:03:12
9. Julbo Sprint 0.356 293.00 37.94 01:03:16
10. Kask Utopia Y 0.3563 293.25 37.93 01:03:17
11. Lazer Vento Kineticore 0.3564 293.33 37.92 01:03:17
12. MET Manta 0.357 293.83 37.90 01:03:19
13. Smith Ignite 0.3572 293.99 37.90 01:03:20
14. Sweet Protection Tucker 2Vi 0.3573 294.07 37.89 01:03:20
15. Kask Elemento 0.3574 294.16 37.89 01:03:21
16. Limar Air Atlas 0.3577 294.40 37.88 01:03:22
17. ABUS Gamechanger 2.0 0.3581 294.73 37.86 01:03:23
18. Oakley ARO7 w/out Visor 0.3586 295.14 37.85 01:03:25
19. Carnac Evo 0.3588 295.31 37.84 01:03:26
20. Specialized S-Works Prevail III 0.3588 295.31 37.84 01:03:26
21. Rudy Project Nytron 0.3589 295.39 37.84 01:03:26
22. Oakley ARO7 w/Visor 0.3607 296.87 37.77 01:03:32
23. Uvex Rise Pro 0.3621 298.02 37.72 01:03:37
24. POC Ventral Tempus 0.3624 298.27 37.71 01:03:38
25. POC Ventral 0.3656 300.91 37.60 01:03:49

Is there a ratio/rule of thumb to adjust your weekly volume between the different training phases? I started base at 10h/w and up to 20h/w now. When I move to build do I follow the pyramid and do less volume because the intensity is now higher

A little bit about me. I am an over 50 masters cat 3. I have been racing since 2015. Historically, I have struggled to have good fitness in the early season, but by June I am usually going pretty good.

Prior to 2022, I did a lot of sweet spot and racing, and typically trained about 8-15 hours a week. I would go hard for as much as I could in group rides and races until my body said enough, and then I would take a day off and do some easy rides. After 2022, I switched to a polarized style training plan, with roughly the same volume, about 7,000 miles a year. At first, it seemed like a good plan, and last year I did tons on zone 2 miles, more than I ever had in the past. However, when it came time to race, I didn't have the punch like in years past. Worse, I had good "all day" legs but lacked the speed I was accustomed to after a few months of training.

This year I switched to Fascat Optimize and am going back to what worked, which for me sometimes means multiple hard days in a row, followed by endurance/recovery rides and rest. I got really hung up on the polarized model for a couple of years, to the point of basically crawling up some climbs to not go over zone 2 heart rate/power, or fretting if I didn't follow an 80/20ish model.

I am curious what other people's experiences are. I have heard people respond differently to training, and I had to find out for myself. Looking back, I believe I might have got caught up listening to too many podcast coaches who, if I am honest, have a financial incentive to get you to believe their system is better.

I am back to having fun and listening to my body rather than trying an overly regimented training schedule that saps the fun out of riding for me. I still do intervals but I don't overthink it if I do more intensity during the week if I am feeling good, or less if I am not.

I don't even understand them. I'm 6'6", 200 lbs, yet people constantly comment on how skinny I am. I try to explain how being 200 lbs and a competitve cyclist is a very difficult combination, I can be 175 according to bmi but it's so annoying to have to repeat this over and over. I don't want to turn things around and insult them either but it just sucks.

I have a question about fueling: Lets say that hypothetically, I overfuel all my easy zone2/endurance rides. For example I have a 2h easy zone 2 ride where I burn 1.400kcal and I eat 800kcal of carbs before that and another 800kcal of carbs during. Lets also stipulate that I dont get fat doing this because I eat very little fat and I eat less after the ride in general. I do this because that way 1. my recovery is better(Idont have to first refill the glycogen stores because they are already full) and 2. I can ride a liiiittle bit longer or harder(still staying in endurance zone though) than otherwise.

Now my question is: are there any adaptations at all that I am not getting if I do this? E.g. mitochondrial efficiency or any things that would negatively impact performance/vo2max development in the long term? Granted that my fat metabolism would not be as good as someone who ate less carbs and more fat, but would that actually make a difference in performance in a race that is shorter than 90minutes?

Last weekend I had my first road bike race (90k/1300m) in my life which was a really great experience, although I was not finishing in a good place. (somewhere in the middle, there was like 1000 people there)

I'm thinking to do other bike races in the future, so I'd have a few questions:

• I was eating 4 gels in total, which was optimal when it comes to the energy level, but I had really strong cramps, which is happening a lot of times when I'm eating energy gels. I always pay attention drink enough water on that, so I don't think that can be a reason. Maybe I just pushed too hard? Or any other idea?
• Also how to eat gels that your fingers are not super sticky afterwards?😅
• I was also drafting behind some people, to get some "rest" but I couldn't overtake them to give it back, because I was out of energy, so I'm not sure how much I was an asshole in this situation.
• What would be a low hanging fruit to increase my pace and fitness to be faster next time?

Hi there,

I'll be getting my degree in exercise physiology soon. Before I enter the workforce for the next 40 years of my life, I'd like to get some more experience in the field. I'm therefore offering the nice people of r/velo some free cycling coaching. Any level, any availability, from anywhere.

For context: I've been racing road, cyclocross and a bit of track for since I was 13. Now racing in the U23's in Belgium. I've worked with a coach during my 2 years as a junior, but that didn't really work out for me. (Little communication from his side) My experience in coaching is limited, only myself and two younger guys in my team.

My goal with this is to gain experience and learn how to be a better coach. to gain a feeling for how much load a person can handle, how I adjust the workouts on the fly etc.

I think it's important for athletes to keep enjoying the sport, no use in training if you don't like it. Clear communication and honesty are also very important for me.

Only thing I ask from you is a commitment of at least 1 month and feedback.

Send me a dm or comment under this post if you're interested or have any questions!

EDIT: I got a lot more response than I expected. I only have time for a few, so sorry if I can't help you today.

I would like to have more depth and repeatability (who wouldn't) at higher power for hard, long races and climbing. I am racing ultras on the shorter side or really long gravel races (250, 300, 350 km with 3000m+ elevation but am looking to step up to some longer events as well). Also doing Brevets and other variety of long-distance cycling though not always competitive.

I'm following solid basic principles but want to add specificity. I often refer to this: Spare Cycles (as does the women's Olympic RR champ apparently) and listen to the Empirical Cycling podcast. I self-coach.

I've been doing 15.5 hours/ week average (though often more esp when doing big rides) including rest weeks and an additional 3-5 hours/ week between walking, yoga, and strength exercises. This is working up from around 6-9 hours/ week 2 years ago when I reorganized my life so I could ride my bike more. Currently in the best shape I've ever been and dropping the intensity of my "easy days" seems to have brought me over the 3.8-4w/kg plateau I was at for a year+. Currently - FTP ~320w, ~72kg, LT1 ~240w. In my late 30s. I have a lot of fun riding my bike so I'm often also doing road, XC, shorter gravel, and track events. Just whatever basically. I think my nutrition (on and off bike) is decent, and my recovery I would say is good.

The shorter ultras develop much more like a long gravel race than a traditional road race of a similar length - usually no team dynamics, and after whatever early selection point the peloton isn't going to catch the lead group. A recent shorter (200km, 3000m) race I basically did 2 hours of crit intensity (75km, 1000m elevation) in order to stay with the lead group and then we got to the 1200m 8% climb and I was cooked - my power for any more than a few seconds maxed out at my LT1 for the rest of the race. Which was still good for a top 10, but I need to be able to ride an hour at 92-95% ftp on a climb like that AFTER doing all the hard work.

Obviously you have to put in the hours above all, but how do you tailor your approach for this kind of repeatability? Is this just "old man strength" and it'll come with more years of consistency?

Is this also an energy management issue and I need to pay more attention to my W'? What even is W'?

First of all, some information about me: I am 22 years old, weigh 59 kg, and started cycling around July 2023. After about a month and a half of using my father's bike, riding once or twice a week, I decided to buy my own bike and start training more seriously. For the first three months, from September to the end of November, I trained for about 6.5 hours a week, without any specific plan, just going out on the road and enjoying myself on the bike. At the end of this period and with the start of the winter season, I decided to buy interactive rollers to be able to train indoors. I also did my first FTP test (a 20-minute test) and got a result of 199 watts (3.4 w/kg).

The following three months, from the beginning of December to the end of February, were characterized by consistent training; I trained for about 8 hours a week for almost all of the 13 weeks considered. At first, I tried to follow one of the training programs offered by Zwift, but I abandoned it halfway through after reading mixed reviews about its effectiveness. I then continued doing almost exclusively Zone 2 training for the rest of the time. Aside from December, when I followed the Zwift program mentioned earlier, the next two months were more than 90% in Zone 2. The idea was to build a solid base to build upon later. At the end of December, I also did another FTP test and achieved 211 watts (3.6 w/kg).

From March until now, I have primarily tried to increase my training volume, managing to reach an average of 11 hours a week, including a four-week block with more than 15 hours of training per week. This was done almost exclusively in Zone 2, with some intensity spikes due to road rides and climbs during those occasions. From March until now, I have spent 90% of my time in Z1 and Z2, 9% in Z3 and Z4, and only the remaining 1% above Z5. This period was characterized by some high-load weeks, alternated with weeks of zero or almost zero training hours due to a new job that requires frequent travel, keeping me away from home for an average of 5 days every two to three weeks, thus preventing me from training.

Yesterday, I did a new FTP test to reset my training zones. I had noticed a clear increase in performance, with my Zone 2 training sessions increasing from 150w to 180w. This test resulted in 239w, which puts me slightly above 4w/kg.

At this point, I was wondering how to continue my training in the coming months and further improve my performance. What I would like to understand is how much room for improvement I still have and where I can expect to reach. This is because I think I am at a good point without having undertaken any really structured training plan and therefore imagine I can still improve a lot. So, I am asking for some advice on what to do in the coming months, perhaps aiming to participate in a Gran Fondo in October, and what results I could reasonably expect.

I've always been pretty lightweight, even when I was a sedentary couch potato. At 5’11 / 180cm I my weight has been between 64 and 68 kg (~141-150lbs) my entire adult life.

I think I have a naturally low appetite, and although it's somewhat calibrated to maintenance calories I do find when I go through an intense block of training my weight does tend to drop to the lower end of the range I mentioned which isnt ideal. I find my performance is best when I'm about 66/67kg and drops off a bit below that.

Recently I've also decided I want to get a bit stronger and add weight training into the mix, but tbh I'm a bit worried about the additional calorie requirements that place on me- atm with the riding volume I'm doing I think my maintenance is already somewhere in the region of like 2800/2900 a day which I find hard to hit.

Anyone have any nutrition tips or tricks? I'm pretty good at fueling on the bike it's the day to day life I struggle with. My 3 meals a day tend to be ok but I don't really do snacks (forget / don't have time) so that could be a quick win. I'm also vegetarian so I feel like that instantly reduces the calories in each meal and adds a lot of empty bulk / fibre. I've resorted to supplementing with huel nutrition shakes but still that doesn't seem enough sometimes.

If anyone has any specific suggestions about high calorie meals or snacks that work for you, or even just general lifestyle advice, it would be super appreciated! Thanks

Hey there,

I've been cycling for a few years (4/5). And normally putting around ~7/10 hours a week on the bike.

Though, I feel it's time to look to some structured plans to follow. I was looking to training peaks, but seems a bit expensive.

Is there any options that you recommend? I was just looking into intervals.icu, but not finding any plans to follow (it's possible that I'm being stupid and not searching on the correct place).

In a nutshell, I want to start following some cycling plans, I'm ok to pay for it if it's not any crazy values, what platforms do you use and recommend?

Background: used to ride a lot as a kid, have always been "in" to cycling in that its the sport I've always followed. University, career, fatherhood took cycling as a hobby/sport away from me. But for the last year I've been back on the bike. Baring and major life disruption, its where I plan on being for decades.

My question though: if I want to get really fit, what's the best way of doing this? Last year I couldn't get up a minor hill, whereas now hours in the saddle and a middling FTP of 260W is where I'm at. I don't have any "goals" this year that I'm training for. I'm trying to slowly & sustainably lose weight (targeting 0.5kg per month, and trust me I have it to lose). Next year it would be nice to try some lower Cat racing and not be completely embarrassed.

So what's the best way? Structured training seems to me to only really be beneficial if you're already pretty fit, and I think not hugely compatible with weight loss given the demands it places on the body. Would I be better off succumbing to a year of Z2 at slowly increasing FTPs and reserving anything more structured until next Spring?

Would really appreciate links to third party evidence here. Lots of Youtube, Podcasts, etc feel geared towards people who are already fit looking to get that top end speed in a few months for a goal, which isn't really where I'm at.

Hi everyone, i dont know if my heart rate strap measuring correctly because when i do some 5*5 VO2 intervals with 5 min rest i usually going around 188 bpm (my max heart rate on a bike is 200bpm) my 1 hour heart rate is around 185bpm and my 2h heart rate is 184bpm(i recorded this in a 2h XCM race). i finded quite strange that my heart rate in very different times is so similar. is this normal or i got something wrong with my heart rate strap or i have bad VOmax?
Also i preffer longer race usually more than 3h but due to my age group there are not many of them. I think iam aerobic athlete and dont use too much carbohydrates but usually more fat. and my resting heart rate is between 40 and 45. I dont have power meter because is expensive :(
Thank you all in advance for your responses!

I started cycling 2 years ago and for about 1,5 months I am following a strict Training Routine provided by my Coach from a local cycling club. Everything went well but since a race I had about a week ago I notticed that my Performance has been going down pretty much. My VO2 Max dropped from 64 to 58 and in recent training sessions my watts where way to low and my Heart rate way to high. I train about 5-6 times per week (depending on the training programm) and usually there is a race every 2 weeks. My Question is if im am overtraining and if I should just relax for 3-4 days. For context I am 16.

Sorry for my english it is Not my motherlanguage.

Hello everyone,

Coming from a weightlifting background and having only picked up cycling six months ago, I've recently begun adhering to a basic training plan to optimise my progress. Within this plan, there are two weekly interval sessions outlined:

1. Threshold: Three sets of 10-minute blocks at 105% of my FTP, with 10 minutes of easy riding in between.

2. Vo2 Max: Five sets of 2-minute blocks at 120% of my FTP, with 2 minutes of easy riding in between.

While I find the Vo2 Max sessions manageable and can power through them without much trouble, I struggle significantly with the threshold sessions. Even completing the first block feels incredibly challenging, and by the second and third blocks, I often find myself unable to sustain the effort. My legs feel exhausted, and it seems like there's a substantial buildup of lactate to the point that I cant even push it through.

I'm wondering if I'm approaching this incorrectly or if I simply need to work on my threshold capacity. I'm open to acknowledging any shortcomings and would appreciate any insights or advice on how to improve this, or with threshold training in general? Thank you!

I’m coming to SLC for a few days midweek in early July, but only have one day on the roads. As of now, my plan is to climb BCC up over Guardsman, drop down into PC, then use public transit to get back to SLC.

I know the BCC climb isn’t the most exciting, but I’ve always wanted to go over Guardsman and the descent down Empire looks like a ton of fun.

Is there a better climb I should be considering somewhere else? I’m aware that traffic in BCC can be a bit crazy but I’m hoping that riding midweek will alleviate some of that.

Also, is there a bus/shuttle that goes up to Guardsman from the PC side? Like when I’m done with the descent, can I catch something that will let me go back up and drop down into BCC? I’d ideally like to avoid having to take a bus all the way around, and it would be cool to get a bonus descent (there’s no way I’m gonna have enough left in the legs to climb back up Empire)

Is it possible/common to set the cleats at a slight angle, i.e. to stand at a slight angle on the pedal (heel slightly towards the bottom bracket)? I tried it that way and I have a better feeling and no pressure points on my foot.

How'd your races go? Questions about your workouts or updates on your training plan? Successes, failures, or something new you learned? Got any video, photos, or stories to share? Tell us about it!

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