/r/TraditionalChinese

Photograph via snooOG

In this Subreddit, we explore the traditions of Chinese culture, history, music, and civilization.

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Traditional Chinese culture

Please allow up to 24 hrs for submissions to be approved. Crosspost to r/Sino for more exposure.

/r/TraditionalChinese

1,588 Subscribers

3

Behind the stage: echoes of ancient Tang poems

1 Comment
2024/11/26
23:00 UTC

8

Hanfu Night

1 Comment
2024/11/25
16:49 UTC

3

Discover the elegance of jade culture with Yuanxi

1 Comment
2024/11/23
09:01 UTC

4

International scholars exchange ideas on human rights in Changsha

1 Comment
2024/11/21
20:20 UTC

9

'Ghosts of Grievances and Graces(恩仇二鬼)'

1 Comment
2024/11/20
17:59 UTC

1

Why didn't the Catholic Church replace the directly pagan worship elements of Chinese Ancestry Rites with their own similar practises that subtly in a way achieve the same thing (such as direct worship replaced by intercessory prayers and memorial mass)?

Some background explanation, I come from a country in SouthEast Asia and am Roman Catholic (a minority faith here so tiny even Muslims another minority outnumber my faith by a significant amount). In my nation's Catholic subculture, a lot of old customs such as lighting objects on fire that bring certain scents like flowers to honor the dead so that their souls can still smell it have been replaced by similar Catholic rituals such as lighting frankincense and myrrh incense sticks. Burning sticks to give light for the dead seeking their way to the underworld? Phased out by novena prayers utilizing candles for those we'd hope to be in purgatory if they aren't in heaven who are being cleansed of their sins. Annual family feasts for the dead where patriarchs and matriarchs of each specific family units of the larger extended house talks to the god Kinoingan? Replaced by annual memorial mass for the deceased with a big expensive lunch and later fancy even grander more expensive dinner.

And so much more. Basically the missionaries who converted the locals who are the ancestors of the Catholics of the region I live in centuries ago, worked with various pagans in my area centuries ago to Catholicize indigenous traditions or worked to find a suitable replacement. So we still practise the old rituals of heathens from centuries ago but now with specifically Catholic devotions such as reciting the rosary with beads while bowing in front of Mary statues who look like people from our clans and tribes that echoes some old ritual counting bundles of straws while bowing in front of a forgotten mother goddess whom now only historians and scholars from my country remember her name.

So I can't help but wonder as I watch Youtube videos introducing the barebones of Sinology........ Why didn't the Catholic Church simply convert the cultural practises during the Chinese Rites Controversy? I mean 6 minute video I saw of interviews with people in Southern China and asking them about Confucian ancestor worships, they were lighting incense and sprinkling water around from a container........ You can do the same with frankincense and myrrh in tandem with holy water! Someone at a temple counting beads and chanting on the day her father died? The Rosary anyone? At a local church?

Just some of so many ideas I have about converting Chinese customs. So I couldn't understand the rigidity of Pope Benedict XIV in approaching the issue and why Pope Clement XI even banned the basic concept of the Chinese ancestry rites decades earlier in the first place. Even for practises that cannot be converted in a straightforward manner because they are either just too incompatible with Catholicism such as alchemy or too foreign that no direct counterpart exist in Catholic devotions such as meditation while seated in a lotus position, the Church could have easily found alternative practises from Europe and the Middle East that fill in the same purposes and prevent an aching hole among converts.

So why didn't the Catholic Church approach Chinese culture with sensitivity and try to fill in the gaps of much sacred traditions of China with syncretism such as replacing direct worship of long dead individuals with intercessory prayers and mass for the dead? Why go rigidly black and white yes or no all out or none with approaching the Chinese Rites during the debates about how to convert China?

Like instead of banning Feng Shui completely, why didn't the 18th century Papal authorities just realize to replace old Chinese talismans and whatnot with common Christian symbols and religious arts and teach the converted and the prospect converts that good benefits will come using the same organization, decoration patterns, and household cleaning Feng Shui commands because God favors the diligent (esp those with the virtua of temperance) and thus God will bless the household because doing the now-Christianized Feng Shui is keeping with commands from the Bible for organization and house cleanliness? And that all those Christian art that replaced the old Chinese amulets at certain angles and locations across the house isn't because of good Chi or bad Chi but because the Christian symbol will remind those who convert about God and thus the same positive energy will result that plenty of traditional Chinese talisman and statues supposedly should bring fro being placed in those same areas?

But instead the Church's approach to missionary work in China was completely inflexible with the exception of some of the Jesuits who were were actually working directly inside China with the locals. Considering the Catholic community of the SouthEast Asian country I live in and who I'm a member of practically still are doing the same basic practises of our ancestors from centuries ago but made to align with proper Catholic theology and laws, I'm really in disbelief that the Vatican didn't approach Chinese culture in the same way during centuries of attempting to convert China esp during the Chinese Ancestry Rites Controversy of the 1700s! That it took 200 years for the clergy of Rome to finally open their mind to merely modernize ancestor reverence of the Sinitic peoples under Catholic doctrines rather than forbidding it outright starting 1939 simply flabbergasts me! Why did it the pattern of events in history go these way for the Sino-Tibetan regions unlike other places in Asia like the SEA country I'm from?

0 Comments
2024/11/17
23:51 UTC

5

The Beauty God YangAsha苗族美神仰阿莎

1 Comment
2024/11/16
15:02 UTC

12

Cangjie, a historian serving under the legendary Yellow Emperor, is credited with the invention of the Chinese writing system.

1 Comment
2024/11/14
11:21 UTC

3

International guests of World Conference of Classics experience Chinese culture

1 Comment
2024/11/13
07:23 UTC

5

Carved lacquer with hidden flowers, carrying auspiciousness! 丨Liziqi Channel

1 Comment
2024/11/12
09:46 UTC

21

Ancient Chinese Soldiers

1 Comment
2024/11/12
09:36 UTC

10

The Birth of China - Hunters on the Yellow River (20000 BCE to 7000 BCE)

1 Comment
2024/11/09
14:19 UTC

17

Chinese and Italian presidents view repatriated Chinese artifacts

2 Comments
2024/11/09
10:19 UTC

0

Were animal offerings and human sacrifices actually done when using the I Ching in the past?

As I read through a translation of the Book of Changes without any commentaries (not even the Ten Wings),

I'm really creeped out about demands to sacrifice captives from other states. Human sacrifices?!!!! Asking this seriously if this is really what the text is talking about.

In addition the texts also often includes in the opening description for many hexagram about making a sacrifice as an offering. I'd assume this means something like killing a goat or a cow or some other animals at an altar to a god after making a reading?

So I ask as someone who does engage in I Ching with modern tools (like apps and beginner's boxed kits , etc), were the human sacrifices and animal offerings as described in barebones translations without commentaries (esp without 10 Wings and other early additions), actually done in the past? So were early Chinese dynasties killing animals and even human beings every time they were doing forecasts using the I Ching method?

Were these sacrifices (if they were done as the I Ching translation I'm reading describes) gifts given to gods and goddesses from Chinese religions and mythology such as Guanyin?

2 Comments
2024/10/31
04:48 UTC

5

Culture Atlas: The legacy revealed in a single crab

1 Comment
2024/10/23
23:59 UTC

7

Tangshan Hetou Old Street

1 Comment
2024/10/20
16:20 UTC

6

Sixth World Buddhist Forum opens in China's Ningbo

1 Comment
2024/10/18
11:15 UTC

13

Final trailer │White Snake

1 Comment
2024/10/17
18:01 UTC

10

"A Tapestry of a Legendary Land," a new musical film adapted from a popular stage dance drama, showcases the poetic beauty of China's traditional culture.

1 Comment
2024/10/15
01:39 UTC

12

Tree Pavilions

1 Comment
2024/10/15
01:34 UTC

10

Archeologists in China discover 4,000 year old statuette. Promptly names it "The Eastern Thinker" after Rodin's The Thinker

1 Comment
2024/10/12
08:11 UTC

18

An amazing performance by students from a Kung Fu school in Henan Province, China.😍

5 Comments
2024/10/12
07:59 UTC

23

Next Gen Hanfu Enthusiast

2 Comments
2024/10/11
08:44 UTC

11

Ming Dynasty Female Warrior

1 Comment
2024/10/05
06:09 UTC

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