If you pay attention to the time frame, there's little possibility that Franny's daughter is Stuart's. They met some time in the middle of June. And when they had their little talk while Harold was eavesdropping, she mentioned she was due in January. Then when Stuart and Tom return to Boulder in early January, Teddy told he the baby came early.

I just finished the book today, and absolutely loved it. It was definitely a hard read, sometimes I felt certain sections were just dragging by and I had to fight putting it down a few times. I’m very glad I didn’t, and I believe a lot of the buildup was necessary and paid off pretty satisfyingly for certain arcs.

However, aside from agreeing with the common complaint that the big expected standoff between East and West never came around, I feel Flagg’s character changed too drastically a little too quickly in Book III.

I think the best example of this was the part where Glen Bateman, locked up in the Vegas prison and expecting to die soon, is just in absolute hysterics after meeting Flagg. It was incredibly satisfying to see, but I was also bewildered - this is the man in charge of the West? The man who made someone delirious by simply saying their name, now ordering his pathetic subordinate to shoot a prisoner and demanding to stop being laughed at.

I’m wondering if anyone else felt the same about the Dark Man’s arc (at least in The Stand, I’m aware he may pop up again in my future reading.) It does make sense to me that Mother Abagail’s death could be some sort of turning point, say she may have became divine and interfered with his powers - but wether or not that happened, we are left in the dark about. It would have been good if there had been a larger buildup to it. Maybe have a lot of his ‘chosen’ followers begin to discard or destroy their flawed necklaces.

Spoilers, ofc. Hey y'all, just finished reading the uncut edition of The Stand for the first time. Let me just say I love this book. I laughed, I cried, I shouted at the characters, and even had nightmares about the dark man along the way. This book took turns that I was not at all expecting and I loved every second of it. I was hooked from the jump. My takeaway is that in this world, there will always be a battle between the forces of good and evil - whether you're living in a post-apocalyptic nightmare or not. The wheel will always turn, as King says.

But there is just one character that I still feel like I don't fully understand, and that's Flagg.

What is he, really? Where did he come from? Is he evil incarnate, the devil's imp, a demon? His origin story was super ambiguous, and I still couldn't fully understand who he was even when we got a better glimpse into his psyche in Book III. Unlike Mother Abigail, who we know was human and worked her white magic through the forces of good, God, whatever you want to think of it as, we aren't painted as clear of a picture with The Walkin' Dude. I'm sure King intended it to be as such, but my need for answers won't go away.

I've reread Chapter 23 (where we're first introduced to Flagg) numerous times. Combined with all the rest of what we know about him throughout the book, all I can gather is that he's an immortal force of evil. Is he ultimately a plot device to drive home the point that the wheel will always turn, that there will always be evil in the world? Obviously he's the main antagonist, but like, who is RF?

Sorry for the long post. This was my first King novel and I just have to get my thoughts out! I'd like to say "don't tell me, I'll tell you," but please do tell me your thoughts haha.

Huge King fan.

Watched the miniseries and fell in love with the story, read the book a decade ago, was psyched to learn there was a reboot.

What a horrible experience.

There was SO much time, budget and potential redoing this story, but jesus what a letdown. Here are my random thoughts in no particular order:

The Good:

• I really like these characters and it was nice to see an updated version of it

• Post COVID, this story feels a lot closer to home making me far more invested, I watched the original The Stand with my mom during a snowstorm when I was 14. She passed away a few years ago from cancer so this was a nice little bit of nostalgia (we lived in NYC)

• I really liked a lot of the updates to the characters, Stu was a surprising yes. Tom was adorable, Larry was Larry (I just watched 3 body problem so was dealing with dissonance there), loved the professor. Nick needed more screentime, Whoopi as Abigail?! Fun!

• I really liked the music and that the end of each episode had little elements and items that were important

• The updates to the sickness, like the exploding chins and distortions were a nice creepy touch

• I loved the nods to the book like Harold and the (non-chocolate) paydays

• The advent of time, technology and CGI made scenes like "the hand of god" much better

....I tried as hard as I could

The Bad

- WTf is this garbage

• How...is Frannie just so....unlikable and unattractive and undesirable? I don't know how to say it and I don't mean it offensively but that character was not Frannie

• Harold is an extremely complex character, he saved them so many times and kept riding the line between good and evil, redemption and condemnation, recovery and regret. Corey Nemec did as well as anyone could, this new guy???? No way it was too over the top

• The Nadine/Harold scenes were so cringey, it was painful to watch

• Lloyd, The Trashcan Man and The Ratman all had character and were interesting and in-depth in their own ways, in this version they were cartoonish?

• Seriously WTAF with The Trashcan Man??!!!!

• The original SCARED me when Randall Flagg's easy going nature suddenly turned eyes black and he could walk the line between pleasant and malice ....I'm sorry Eric from True Blood, you do not do the same.

• WTF with the weird time jumps? The first hour to hour and a half of this story is horror/terror as the world is dealing with a disease its not equipped to handle, where was the famous Lincoln Tunnel scene?!!!! it felt like we spent 15 minutes with Stu, 15 minutes with Larry and Heather Graham and a pointless rat scene and then we/re in Boulder. Where was the terror leading to that?

• Instead of filimg a whole fucking episode of Fran and Stu playing House on the Praire they could've made more flashbacks, better character development for Nick and Tom and Ralph (Ray). what a STUPID last episode. TF

• That was NOT New Vegas as was described in the book nor the original show, that was a comedic festival

• Lloyd was such a good character in the book and show, he KNEW what he was doing was effed up but felt such a huge debt to Randall for saving him, he was a clown in this!

• No seriously, wtaf was that Trashcan man?!!!!!!

Ugh, 2.4/10

Also thank GOD I'm never one of Gods chosen because if some demon said he could save me, my husband and my baby for a kiss, I'm putting on some chapstick baby

So I just finished Chapter 38 which was amazing. But there was one section I didn’t fully understand, Irma Fayette’s story. >!Did Irma Fayette purposefully use her dad’s gun to commit suicide or did the gun backfire as she was trying to shoot the hippy?? !< I’m leaning towards the former but would appreciate others’ input.

I've read the book twice (audiobook). I've seen the original miniseries several times, and aside from the hokey hand of God at the end, I quite enjoyed it.

I just finished the "new" miniseries from a few years ago. Skarsgård was amazing as Flagg, I didn't hate it, but it was...something was weird about it. I can't place my finger on it, but it just lay flat. I know I'm not the only one who didn't really like it, but I don't have the intense feelings a lot of other people here seem to. Anyone else just kinda meh about it?

I'm on my third reread and am thoroughly enjoying it. We all know the U.S. government crashed and burned. And as an added measure, initiated the whole "Rome Falls" protocol as a means to shield themselves from any blame.

However, given how quickly it burned through the the U.S. and possibly the rest of the continent, there was no real way of knowing if the entire world succumbed as badly. Sure the Berlin Wall fell in 1989. But I'd imagine countries like Russia and China were still quite restrictive on free movement in 1990. There still would've been many deaths no doubt. But with the general lack of personal cars and free travel in those areas, I'd like to think those two countries would've had far more survivors. That and they probably would've had more of a government left intact to research what just burned through the rest of the world. Maybe even find the means to inoculate what's left of their larger populace.

I could envision some sequel set 30-40 years in the future. The original survivors of THE U.S. outbreak and their first and second generation descendants having to deal with a new "red scare". Flagg/The Darkman somehow also joining in on this new carnage.

Less about virus, less about rebuilding, and more about "uh oh, completely forgot about those guys!!".

Is it just me or there is something missing to this book? I am asking this because I really enjoyed reading it but it felt to me like the culmination that I was waiting didn't happen. Sure, there was big blast followed by the "survivor" episode but it just didn't hit me the way I expected. I was really excited while going through the introduction chapters that presented the desolate world demolished by the disease. The old lady and her dreams were equally promising. But I just didn't feel the peak. Anyone else sharing my thoughts? P.S. I did read it long time ago and might give it another shot.

I'm watching the 1994 adaptation and I think it's really great! The only issue is that a lot is skipped. What is skipped is not necessary for the plot, but the biggest strength of this book is the characters and so it is a shame we don't see as much development as in the book. It makes me think that this show, if adapted again should be a 2-3 season show.

I’m in chapter 39 of the uncut version. I took a bit of a break from the book and I’m at the part where Randall Flagg frees Lloyd from prison.

Have….we met Randall before? The book gives us his name like we should know it, but I don’t remember him lol.

Could someone fill me in on who he is if we’ve already seen him? Please no spoilers from after chapter 39. Thanks!

So, I'm one of the ones that saw the miniseries before finishing the novel, and I think the miniseries scores a few points over the book

•Firstly, merging that other girl's story with Nadine's felt totally authentic. She feels a bit more real, and so it feels like more of a loss when things go bad. I like that she's spent more time and been through more shit with Larry, and the whole Lincoln Tunnel dealy plays well to her character. I'm currently rewatching the series as it's been forever, but if I recall correctly she inherents the pill addiction, too? Natural fit.

I know Joe's role is somewhat reduced, but I don't remember how really at this time; so I can't speak to its impact.

•Similarly, Nick feels a little more complete; if a little less complex. The loss of inner monolog may be more keenly felt with characters who are mute. In the book, Nick has some unkind thoughts about Tom; and while he saved his life and treated him well, this of course left him with more flaws, more room for character growth.

So why am I counting this as a plus? Because in the book they never really go there, you know? King kind of tells, and to an extent shows us that Tom and Nick have grown close without Nick ever really getting to emote that much. And while it's good that this leaves us with the sense of a life unfinished when he dies, it's still kinda weak-sauce tbh. I feel it more with Stu and Tom at the very end more than I do from Nick during their entire storyline. I was expecting more love, more intimacy of friendship. Bro kinda just walks around and does stuff.

--Frannie is annoying. I can't stand her.

--Steve King knew about neckbeards (Harold) before anyone.

--Watership Down for humans.

--Frannie is a selfish bitch.

--My fave parts are: Trashcan's back story, Trashcan's misadventures with The Kid, The part where the flu kills everyone, the part where Tom Cullen and Stu come back home.

--Parts that were stupid: Frannie parts. Frannie crying because she's a girl. Frannie going The Baby! Frannie getting the giggles, Frannie's dialogue. All that city council crap.

--Steve could have edited out about 90 percent of the city council garbage. Not interesting at all.

--Steve forgot that abandoned grocery stores are in fact, stinky af 🤮🤢💩

--Steve had to abruptly end the book with a silly deux ex machina contrivance because he was running out of time and he still had 2 more books to write that day before bedtime. 🤷‍♂️

--Fuck Frannie!

--Edit: Another thing, the patented SK who-me? false modesty trope. So very tiresome. You've picked ME for the thing??? but why??? I don't want the job

--Edit: Related to the false modesty trope, the I blame myself trope. Why oh why did I let XYZ happen....It's all my fault....woe is me. These elements are supposed to develop character I guess and be an anchor to hang empathy on and maybe they were innovations in pop-fiction at the time but I find them difficult lines of dialogue to get through now-a-days.....

The remake is a modernized retelling of the tale, and to be honest? The acting (besides one glaring errror), set design, and general Kinglineds benefits so much from changes in standards regarding miniseries that it's just a better product than the 94 series.

The changes make sense to a modern age. An Abigail Freemantle would end up in a nursing home tucked away by what remaining family she has. Glenn would be a disaffected Boomer, a pot-smoking hippie-cum-cool professor who may have once had to worry about losing his scholarship to chasing the Bitch in a dorm common room and being sent to Nam. Larry goes from Springsteen wannabe to R&B barely-was, and Harold holds to the Alex Jones conspiracy theorist mindset (probably trolling some writing subreddit while listening to conspiracy podcasts pre-Tripps). Vegas becomes not the decadent biker scene but the bright and empty world of brains rotted on influencer culture, pickup artists, and the need to flash power in gaudy lights, an idiomatic dogpile of reality TV made real.

There's a lot more King in the world. Little subtle references to the overall King universe. The world feels lived in, and the 94 series feels as dated as Transatlantic accented actors in a war film vs. Saving Private Ryan.

The casting feels more real, more tangible... except for Trashcan. Holy fuck, was that a whiff. I have to say the one standout missing link between the two is a guy like Matthew Frewer in that part. It's those nails on a chalkboard that really kill the Vegas arc, even while Flagg and the rest hit well.

I fell in love with King in the 90s, but this renaissance of new material is great. I love seeing new takes on King's earlier work, and while there are absolute classics (The Shining, Shawshank, The Green Mile) these ABC miniseries in the 90s were pretty subpar for what can now be done with the kind of budgets streamers and premium cable services can bring. They could've been worse (the Dark Tower comes to mind) but packing King in a PG/PG13 box really dulled the edges of a lot of stories. And Gary Senise wasn't a good Stu.

We shouldn't be so down on the 2020 remake. Except for Trash 🤢. And I can't wait to see what we may see coming up (holding out for the Talisman sometime before 2040 🤣).

Watching The Stand made for TV movie and noticed the crazy length of Flagg's ring fingers.

I was reading The Stand and it occurred to me that all of his nicknames and alternate names could have a deeper symbolic meaning but I don't know what they are exactly. I was curious if anyone knew if all of these names are symbolic or have a deeper meaning.

The remake was terrible. You can’t bond with any character. It being all over the place is so annoying.

However, some things were not bad.

Like, James Marsden did well as Stu Redman. Gary Sinise had huge shoes to feel and I think James did it well.

Also Nat wasn’t bad as Lloyd. In the book Lloyd is young and stupid and gets smarter the more he is around Randall. In the original mini series he seemed smart to begin with.

Only issue I have with Nat’s version. They made him young and dumb like in the book but didn’t have him get smarter like in the book.

And Alexander was good as Randall. However I like the original more because the actor plays him like an evil Garth Brooks and it’s so entertaining to me. (I’m not insulting or praising Garth)

The image is that of Black Mask from the Batman Arkham games. Watching both miniseries Lloyd wears suits and when re reading the book, I imagine him wearing something like this. The 2020 series did him dirty, those suits he wore were ugly and its like the writers were trying to make him edgy. I know what the characters wear isn’t the most important thing, but if they were to make another adaptation of The Stand in the future, I would take some inspiration from Black Mask for Lloyds character because it looks very right hand man like and overall interesting fashion choice.

I’m really after a snowed in photo.

My first introduction to the stand was the 1994 version. Always liked it.

Few weeks ago I finally read the stand (it was an audiobook, sue me) absolutely loved it. It has been a long time since watching the 1994 version and I just kept being reminded of how close they stayed to the book in that one. So well done.

The 2020 version... Jesus it's so fuckin terrible. The stand is a large story with lots of characters, so it can get a little difficult to follow now and then, just a little. But the editing in the first half of the 2020 version sucks. There was no reason to fuck with the timeline like that. The second half just kept getting worse. Changing little and big things for no reason.

Probably the worst was trashcan man. He was always a weirdo but they turned him into an incoherently screaming gremlin instead of a mentally disturbed technological savant.

I could go on, and I'm sure many have before me.

The only part I really liked was James Marsden as Stue, but that's because I loved Westworld. Great casting choice, just didn't use him effectively.

It was hard to even finish it, but I suffered through just so I could say I've seen all of it and have no reason to touch it again.

I'll go rewatch the good one now.