Rules

Good books about alkaloid extraction from Papaver Somniferum?

I recently read a study about how cannabis concentrates heavy metals like lead and cadmium. Tobacco is well known to do this too, even picking up some radioactive heavy metals. Does anyone know if poppies do this? Are there any studies on this?

Two cases of severe opiate toxicity after ingestion of poppy seed tea

Abstract:

The opioid epidemic continues to grow as users expand into novel opioid agents, many of which can be purchased legally. Poppy seed tea is a popular opiate alternative, containing both morphine and codeine, and is available on the internet for legal purchase. Reports of serious toxicity and deaths from poppy seed consumption abound in the lay press and lay websites but are sparse in the medical literature. We report two cases of serious opiate toxicity following the consumption of poppy seed tea.

Wow. I almost OD'd last night. I'm drinking some tonight. I am pleased I found this stuff. I'm not a young adult or retirement age. Discovering it in my adult prime when I should "know better". This shit gives me hope.

Anyone want to warn me about the dangers of this new love affair?

Poppies contain many alkaloids, some desirable morphine,codeine ect. and others not so desirable, like thebaine. I know that lower pH during initial extraction increases thebaine content in your solution and thus should be avoided if you are using the product after that.

But what about alcohol. I looked for data or research and found nothing. Part of my desire is that morphine gets somewhat unstable around the temperature that water boils, if I could use ethanol, I could much more easily extract and then evaporate it off.

does adding acid AFTER ive steeped and removed the poppy tea bag, and then letting the tea sit with acid, do anything? I've heard that the acid can convert certain opiods present into more potent bio-available ones. If it does, does it do it in an amount of noticeable significance?

Hello,

I have looked at some of the literature discussed here and, in general, there is a lot looking at maximizing morphine and codeine extraction against thebaine using temperature and acidity variation. The consensus seems to be morphine and codeine are better extracted against thebaine in a wash by hot, pH neutral water. Increased acidity, increases overall extraction, including thebaine, but thebaine extraction is independent of temperature, so temp is the best way to leave it out.

If we look at these three alkaloids (there are many more I know)

https://imgur.com/a/nhEO5LI

They all share the tertiary amine (blue) and a pair of hydroxy and/or methoxy groups (red). The amine is why acidic media increases the overall extraction. The lone pair on the tertiary amine will pick up a proton from whatever acid, ionizing it and so solubilizing it in water.

The hydroxy and methoxy groups are a little different. The hydroxy groups are acidic, and in the presence of a stronger acid will deprotonate to a lesser extent. This shouldn't matter though, because the protonated amine is having a solubilizing effect. In basic media, though, these groups will deprotonate, producing the desired solubility in water. This essentially does not happen for methoxy groups. the methyl group will not leave the way a proton will, and so basic media will only effect alkaloids with hydroxy (alcohol) groups. You can see then morphine solubility will be greatest, having two hydroxy groups, while thebaine solubility will be lowest. Alkaline or basic media will also hinder any protonation of the amine.

Alkaline drinking water is very common and readily available, basically everywhere.

(This is a very loose, qualitative rationale, but it should be correct. pKas for these chemicals are very likely available and can be used to better understand what will happen when pH is adjusted for extraction. There are mechanical and materials science aspects to extraction from latex coated poppy seeds that is not accounted for here)

tl;dr alkaline water in theory extracts, from greatest to least degree, morphine>codeine>>thebaine

I am a chemist

Been drinking tea for a decade now, and researching the plant ands its alkaloids just as long. Looking to detox off soon, since its only serving to keep me in a rat wheel at this point, but beyond my personal use of it I have a special appreciation for Poppy as a living being and for its relationship with humanity. Hard to find much good academic/serious information on the subject since its highly taboo.

I hope this is allowed here, and thanks again for letting me post. ibudilast-for-the-treatment-of-drug-addiction-and-other-neurological-conditions.pdf (openaccessjournals.com) I have the same link at bottom, good article giving an overview.

Another study strictly focusing on increased Morphine analgesia, and effects on withdrawal Here: https://n.neurology.org/content/80/7_Supplement/P07.183

​

This chemical, also known as MN-166 and Ketas. It has been used as a asthma medication overseas for awhile. It is currently being studied for its effects as a potential tool to use against addiction. I more suspect they are researching it to patent it, and combine it with various opioids/opiates to increase medical efficacy while lowering recreational potential.

I have used this chemical sporadically since 2016, in my limited trials of using anywhere from 5mg to a maximum of 60mg had PROFOUND effect on my opiate tolerance. While using it co-currently with an opiate, i felt it reduced the euphoria by nearly half, but boosted analgesia. This provided an overall potency boost, and i was able to greatly reduce my doses.

This chemical is primarily a PDE4 inhibitor, and works on receptors in your brain that stimulate the response when you get sick if it means a flu type sick or an opiate sickness, these "toll" receptors are what tell your body to respond so violently when you are sick via pathogen or substance withdrawal.. This is the dumbed down version of it, I have lost most of my sources and need to re-research it all again. I have added an article to help explain better.

​

I hope this helps somebody out there if they wish to increase there pain relief properties, its the only safe enhancer I have found. it also made me feel less wanting to re-dose, I believe that was from the potency increase. I experienced a much less severe withdrawal when I continued to take Ibudilast after ceasing opiates. It has a unique feeling on its own also.

​

As always, if you do decide to do your own trials, i suggest cutting your opiate/opioid dose in half before you try any dose of Ibudilast. Always start small, and do an allergy test!

​

To start reading about the trials, i found one here: ibudilast-for-the-treatment-of-drug-addiction-and-other-neurological-conditions.pdf (openaccessjournals.com)

I’m on a quest to better understand how much of each of the three main alkaloids we consume in poppy tea.

I’m currently referring to one of the quintessential texts of this community (“Quantification of Morphine, Codeine, and Thebaine in Home‐Brewed Poppy Seed Tea by LC‐MS/MS,” link posted below in case you’re not familiar). In it, the authors take two dozen or so different batches of seeds, make tea, and use GC/MS to determine the amount of morphine, codeine and thebaine in each batch. They publish the results as a series of bar charts on page 5.

Let’s just look at the last sample, #22 (I picked this one because based on anecdotal experience, it seems like the closest relative to the quality of seeds that a user can procure currently—feel free to offer an alternative suggestion). A regular, hot-neutral wash of this batch of seeds hits approximately ~1,500 mg/kg on the chart detailing morphine content.

My question is, does this mean that one kg of seeds contains 1500 mg of morphine?

In the study they state: “Concentrations (expressed as mg alkaloid per kg seeds) were obtained from calibration curves, also taking into account dilutions, volume of water in tea, and weight of poppy used. Morphine, codeine, and thebaine concentrations ranged from <1–2788 mg/kg, <1–247.6 mg/kg, and <1–124 mg/kg, respectively, between all extractions.”

Therefore, it appears that they are indeed saying that Sample #22 contains 1500mg of morphine. I’m struggling with this because that seems like an absolutely insane amount of morphine, and I feel I could have quite easily misread the study. A classic dose for PST users is one cup to one-and-one-half cup of seeds. This generally comes out to somewhere in the ~200-250g mark. Based on this understanding, if the drinker were making tea from Sample #22, he or she would be consuming up to 300mg of morphine per dose.

That is utterly insane. It is a disturbingly large dose of morphine.

So far, I can’t determine a different way to interpret this data. If someone else can come in and “check my work”, I’d be deeply appreciative as I feel like I must be missing something.

Thank you University folks. Here’s the study link for those who may need it or have somehow missed it: https://drive.google.com/file/d/18Z61R-j4UBkUzsP1F5xRVhNlOAbcDMBW/view?usp=drivesdk

That smell that Papaver S. has that is espically prevalent in fresh stuff, What is that ? Some type of terp like in MJ. I would like to try and recreate that smell like they do with the MJ . Any idea's ?

Concentrations of the opium alkaloids morphine codeine and thebaine in poppy seeds are reduced after thermal and washing treatments but are not affected when incorporated in a model baked product

Abstract:

• Limited information exists on the effectiveness of potential treatments to reduce levels of opium alkaloids that may be present in seeds from poppy (Papaver somniferum). Poppy seeds containing morphine at relatively lower (14.7 mg kg–1) and higher (210.0 mg kg–1) concentrations were subjected to dry heat and steam treatments, water washing, and baking. Sample extracts were then analyzed using liquid chromatography–tandem mass spectrometry for the opium alkaloids morphine, codeine, and thebaine. The results indicated that thermal treatment promoted opium alkaloid degradation in poppy seed samples, with a 50% loss of morphine observed after 30–40 min at 200 °C. Water washing reduced concentrations of opium alkaloids in poppy seeds by approximately 50–80%, while steam treatment resulted in reduction of morphine in only one sample type. Importantly, baking had no significant effect on concentrations of opium alkaloids. Overall, these results indicate that opium alkaloids may not be significantly affected by baking or steam application and that poppy seeds may require water washing or extended thermal treatment to promote reduction of these compounds.

Influence of a high-fat meal on the absorption of morphine from oral solutions

• The influence of a high‐fat meal on blood morphine concentrations after the administration of a morphine solution (50 mg dose) was studied in 12 patients with chronic pain. The oral morphine dose was administered in a total volume of 200 ml to patients either immediately after food intake or while in the fasting state. There was a 34% increase in the area under the curve (AUC) when morphine was administered immediately after food when compared with the fasting state (p < 0.02). However, there was no significant difference between the maximum blood morphine concentration (C^max) or the time to maximum concentration (t^max) between the two treatment regimens. The shape of the blood morphine concentration‐time curve was consistently altered in the fed patients compared with patients who were in the fasting state, in as much as the blood morphine concentrations were maintained at a higher level from 240 to 600 minutes after the dose when the morphine was administered with food (p < 0.02). It is suggested that morphine concentrations are maintained at higher levels, possibly resulting in more prolonged pain relief, when morphine is administered with food compared with the same dose administered to patients who are in the fasting state.

Hi everyone,

First time poster! I’m from Australia and I have been an avid fan of PST for about 6 months now. Love the thread and wanted to ask a quick question regarding hot water and PST.

After reading through the excellent analysis of data regarding cold/warm/hot water and neutral/acid water in extracting our favourite alkaloids I got to wondering how in the hell are people ‘shaking’ their seeds with boiling or near boiling water?

Anything with a lid will create too much pressure (and explode) and glass shatters from heat expansion.

Any guidance or procedures or links to the ‘perfect’ recipe would be fantastic!

does deadheading produce more pods or not? if yes, when should they be topped? tia

Apparent Effects of Opioid Use on Neural Responses to Reward in Chronic Pain

Abstract:

• Neural responses to incentives are altered in chronic pain and by opioid use. To understand how opioid use modulates the neural response to reward/value in chronic pain, we compared brain functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) responses to a monetary incentive delay (MID) task in patients with fibromyalgia taking opioids (N = 17), patients with fibromyalgia not taking opioids (N = 17), and healthy controls (N = 15). Both groups of patients with fibromyalgia taking and not taking opioids had similar levels of pain, psychological measures, and clinical symptoms. Neural responses in the nucleus accumbens to anticipated reward and non-loss outcomes did not differ from healthy controls in either fibromyalgia group. However, neural responses in the medial prefrontal cortex differed, such that patients with fibromyalgia not taking opioids demonstrated significantly altered responses to anticipated rewards and non-loss outcomes compared to healthy controls, but patients with fibromyalgia taking opioids did not. Despite limitations including the use of additional non-opioid medications by fibromyalgia patients taking opioids, these preliminary findings suggest relatively “normalized” neural responses to monetary incentives in chronic pain patients who take opioids versus those who do not.

I've been taking 2 or 3 inches of stalk.

But then I went back to a nice patch, and I noticed a large, dark patch of resin leaking out of the area where I had clipped off the pod a few days ago.

So, maybe the stalk has quite a lot of resin all along its length?

Should I be taking the whole stalk?

Poppy Seed Tea A Short Review and Case Study

Abstract:

Unwashed poppy seeds are widely available online through private websites or via well known sellers such as [redacted]. These seeds can be used to produce a tea that contains an opioid content sufficient to produce psychoactive effects and to cause withdrawal symptoms when discontinued abruptly, yet their sale and distribution is legal in the United States. Clinicians may not be aware of poppy seed tea and some individuals may use it habitually or as an analgesic. There is a paucity of literature on this topic, although a few cases of poppy seed tea intoxication and dependence have been reported. A clinical case is presented here.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/02/heres-what-the-sacklers-didnt-want-you-to-see-in-the-oxycontin-lawsuit/

https://imgur.com/a/walKVG6

Original Thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/PoppyTea/comments/anlf61/heres_what_the_sacklers_didnt_want_you_to_see_in/

https://nypost.com/2019/01/31/oxycontin-maker-had-secret-plan-to-sell-opioid-treatment-drugs-court-docs/

OP: https://www.reddit.com/r/PoppyTea/comments/am30jf/project_tango_more_information_is_revealed_about/

Posting here so the og thread doesn't get buried and lost as the story develops.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/01/family-behind-oxycontin-called-addicts-criminals-while-pushing-pills/

Original thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/PoppyTea/comments/aj36ij/damning_court_documents_show_just_how_far/

Optimized LC/MS/MS Analysis of Morphine and Codeine in Poppy Seed and Evaluation of Their Fate during Food Processing as a Basis for Risk Analysis

Abstract:

The opiate alkaloids present in poppy seed intended for use in food recently have raised major concerns. An efficient method for routine analysis of morphine and codeine using liquid chromatography in combination with tandem mass spectrometry on a triple quadrupole instrument (LC/MS/MS) was therefore developed. The optimal sample preparation was found to be cold extraction of 10 g of unground poppy seed with 30 mL of methanol containing 0.1% acetic acid for 60 min shaken at 250 rpm. The fate of morphine during food processing was also studied. All experiments led to a significant reduction of morphine and codeine. For poppy cake only 16-50% of the morphine was recovered, and in poppy buns at the highest temperature (220 °C) only 3% of the original morphine content was found. Ground poppy seed showed significantly lower recoveries than untreated seed. Morphine elimination during food processing has to be taken into account in the current discussion about its maximum limits in poppy seed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metkefamide

Original thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/PoppyTea/comments/af1s7u/metkefamide_novel_synthetic_opioid_that_creates/

https://imgur.com/a/gLjWhDp#cB0jPe0

I'm sorry for the scan quality (it was a pain in the ass to get it to look as good as it does now) - I have a small, older scanner. Someone wanted to see the chapter from my textbook so I uploaded it to share with them, I figured others may be interested as well. The 4th to last scan includes information about "chipping". I tried taking the images on an iPhone 7s, but whenever I held it landscape the overall image size was small making the text impossible to read.. Idk why that keeps happening, I can send those photos to anyone if they want. In portrait mode it comes out normal and big, but I can only fit 3/4 of a page in a shot :( I'm sorry about the quality! It's finals week and I don't have much time for editing pages together.

Regardless, I hope someone finds educational use from this text and finds it as interesting as I did. It's one of, if not my favorite textbooks and I've read it back to back. If anyone wants another chapter on a different subject uploaded, such as SSRIs, benzodiazepines, Cannabis or whatever, feel free to ask. I took this course (Psychology of Addictions) during the beginning of my sophomore year and it's very objective about both positive and negative aspects as well as the history, and has just enough information not to overwhelm you but inform you properly on the way things work. It's a great introductory text.

We have obtained a list of pesticides (herbicides, insecticides, etc.,) that are currently approved for use on poppy plants in the UK. This list is by no way complete, but it is more information than we had before. I've also updated the wiki section on pesticides with this same information.

Remember that since our tea is made from seeds, they are physically protected within the pod. This may or may not affect specific exposure and/or accumulation levels of individual pesticides in the dried opium residue on seeds. Also, some pesticides are lipophilic, which would result in accumulation within the (high fat content) seeds, and unknown amounts elsewhere.

All links are to PubChem, except the last one, which is so new that the MSDS is available only from the manufacturer (as expected, potential health effects are completely unknown).

• propaquizafop

• mesotrione

• lambda-cyhalothrin

• clethodim

• boscalid

• fluroxypyr

• boscalid+pyractlostrobin aka Signum

I'm linking to the news article because the paper is brand new thus behind a paywall (wait a couple of months).

Abstract:

• Morphinan-based painkillers are derived from opium poppy. We report a draft of the opium poppy genome, with 2.72 Gb assembled into 11 chromosomes with contig N50 and scaffold N50 of 1.77 Mb and 204 Mb, respectively. Synteny analysis suggests a whole genome duplication at approximately 7.8 million years ago (MYA) and ancient segmental or whole genome duplication(s) that occurred before the Papaveraceae-Ranunculaceae divergence 110 MYA. Syntenic blocks representative of phthalideisoquinoline and morphinan components of a benzylisoquinoline alkaloid cluster of 15 genes provides insight into how it evolved. Paralog analysis identified P450 and oxidoreductase genes that combined to form the STORR gene fusion essential for morphinan biosynthesis in opium poppy. Thus gene duplication, rearrangement and fusion events have led to evolution of specialized metabolic products in opium poppy.

I read about this substance on /r/opiates. Wikipedia says "Systemic agmatine can potentiate opioid analgesia and prevent tolerance to chronic morphine in laboratory rodents. Since then, cumulative evidence amply shows that agmatine inhibits opioid dependence and relapse in several animal species."

I bought some and have been taking the amount recommended on the label (1,000 mg/day) for a few weeks now, figuring it might lower my dependence over time. But I'm realizing I don't know how to test that without going CT and seeing what happens.

I decided to read more and it looks like you don't have to "build up to it", it should work right away:

The linked article that follows the above quote in wikipedia (it's only 3 pages long) claims that agmatine 1) enhances the pain relief that opioids provide 2) prevents tolerance and 3) eliminates dependence. All sounds too good to be true. What they did, and also some researchers in Turkey did (https://www.biopsychiatry.com/agmatopi.htm) is: 1. Get mice addicted to morphine or "hydroxycodone" for 3-7 days 2. Administer agmatine 3. 45 minutes later, inject them with naloxone to induce precipitated withdrawal, and observe results

The Chinese said observed symptoms declined 70-100%

The Chinese also said "Co-administration of agmatine 10 mg/kg (tid, for 3 d) with morphine prevented the development of substance dependence and increased ED50of naloxone required for inducing withdrawal syndrome."

The Chinese did 40 mg/kg body weight if by mouth (or 10 mg/kg injected) of agmatine; the Turks did 20, 30, and 40 mg/kg by injection.

So:

-if you take agmatine for 3 days, while dosing as usual, it may reduce your dependence. I don't know whether preventing the development of dependence is the same as eliminating pre-existing dependence...would it work the same way?

-If you take agmatine when going CT, it may prevent withdrawal.

-The Chinese article implies that agmatine is about 25% available orally vs. injection (based on 10 mg/kg by injection = 40 mg/kg orally).

I have been asked to include a link to this discussion of allometric dosage scaling: https://www.reddit.com/r/PoppyTeaUniversity/comments/7206hm/analytical_study_and_analgesic_activity_of/dnl7oyi/

We are not rats, so simply multiplying out mg/kg values to our own weight is not a safe way of determining human-appropriate dosages. Agmatine sounds like it has a lot of potential for people dealing with opiate dependency, both to keep tolerance from growing (if long-term opiate use is necessary) and to reduce/eliminate withdrawal symptoms. I can't believe that with the "opiate crisis" going on, no human studies have been done with this stuff.

Does anyone know any more on how best to use it to eliminate withdrawal symptoms?