Can someone tell me what this phrase means? Its an old proverb that means something like a father above the common rate of men has a son below it. Even though I know the meaning, I'm struggling to find an exact translation.

Salvete Omnes!! I’m curious, what are y’all’s favorite metrical style and favorite author who uses it?

Would anyone know of a university offering advanced Latin papers able to be taken online? My university is only offering one Latin paper next semester which is going to hinder me from graduating early. I'm hoping I can transfer those credits to my degree.

Thanks!

Yesterday, I was "today years old" (as the kids say) when a post by our conredditor u/Electrical_Humour led me to Luigi Miraglia's impressive address de causis corruptae institutionis Latinae at an Athenaeum Illustre conference held in Amsterdam in 2013. It was both tremendously fun and very thought-provoking.

I was particularly struck by his observation that there has never been a time when students of Latin weren't in danger from "little grammarians" who wanted to force them to analyse sentences instead of reading them with understanding. How, such teachers always ask, can a student ever understand Latin without knowing about the ablative of the agent?!? (I fear that I've been guilty of that as a teacher in the past…)

By contrast, Miraglia continues, if you asked Erasmus what the complementum agentis was, he would say that he had never heard of it!

This reminded me of a passage from the Life and Letters of Walter Farquhar Hook, a notable figure in the nineteenth-century Church of England, that I thought might be interesting or amusing for the readers of this sub. This is from a letter he wrote to the medieval historian E. A. Freeman (pp. 582–83, scan at the Internet Archive). He's comparing the Latin styles of Erasmus and of Cardinal Pole, and it seems to me that he agrees with Miraglia in valuing communication over rules:

https://preview.redd.it/j1fjwd1zkv1e1.png?width=1846&format=png&auto=webp&s=2247802866bcd24d6d8105e8eaa7872830455bde

https://preview.redd.it/q8kzz9l0lv1e1.png?width=1846&format=png&auto=webp&s=714f91df3ed1c8fa30cedeb220b7861a179e4245

I wonder how Hook himself was taught to read Latin. Whatever the method was, it enabled him to derive pleasure from what he read, and also to discern and appreciate the distinctive characters of Latin authors. I hope I'll get there some day...

.

Offred stumbles upon the secret message "Nolite te Batardes carborundum" written in her closet. It is a grammatically incorrect attempt to say "Don't let the bastards wear you down". A better try might read "Noli permittere batardibus ut te subrodant", but I don't find the noun batard, batardis in my Collins, and the verb subrodere is also a coinage. How would a real roman have expressed this sentiment, perhaps a friend of Cataline (if he had any) giving him advice on his upcoming trial in the Senate?

Which of these is closest to “fortis fortuna adiuvat”? Also as a side question, does brave and bold mean the same thing?

A lesson for “beginners” on Book 1, lines 50-63 of the Aeneid

I have posted my recitation and translation on my YouTube channel (David Amster).

TEXT:

Tālia flammātō sēcum dea corde volūtāns nimbōrum in patriam, loca fēta furentibus austrīs, Aeoliam venit. Hīc vastō rēx Aeolus antrō luctantīs ventōs tempestātēsque sonōrās imperiō premit ac vinclīs et carcere frēnat. Illī indignantēs magnō cum murmure montis circum claustra fremunt; celsā sedet Aeolus arce scēptra tenēns, mollitque animōs et temperat īrās. Nī faciat, maria ac terrās caelumque profundum quippe ferant rapidī sēcum verrantque per aurās. Sed pater omnipotēns spēluncīs abdidit ātrīs, hoc metuēns, mōlemque et montīs īnsuper altōs imposuit, rēgemque dedit, quī foedere certō et premere et laxās scīret dare iussus habēnās. VOCABULARY & GRAMMAR:

“Tālia flammātō sēcum dea corde volūtānsnimbōrum in patriam, loca fēta furentibus austrīs,Aeoliam venit.”

flammātō: with an enflamed, burning; abl sing neut perfect passive participle (flammo)

corde: heart; abl sing neut (cor)

volūtāns: turning over, pondering; nom sing fem pres act participle (voluto)

tālia: such things, things like this; acc pl neut (talis), referring to the reasons for her hatred of the Trojans

sēcum = cum se: with herself; abl sing.

dea: the goddess, Juno; nom sing

venit: comes; 3rd p sing present; vēnit = she came; we know it’s a short e because of the meter, the present tense is used for vividness. (venio) in: into, to; + acc.

patriam: the land, the country; acc sing.

nimbōrum: of storms, pouring rain, clouds; gen pl masc (nimbus)

Aeoliam: Aeolia, a group of islands near Sicily, the abode of Aeolus, god of the winds, now the Lipari Islands; acc sing

loca: places, a country, region; acc pl neut (locum)

fēta: pregnant, filled, full of; acc pl neut

furentibus: with raging, mad, furious; abl pl masc pres act part (furo)

austrīs: south winds; abl pl masc. ……….

“Hīc vastō rēx Aeolus antrōluctantīs ventōs tempestātēsque sonōrāsimperiō premit ac vinclīs et carcere frēnat.”

Hīc: here

vastō: in a vast, deserted, immense, huge; abl sing neut (vastus)

antrō: cave, cavern; abl sing neut, abl of place without a prep (antrum)

rēx: king, the king; nom sing.

Aeolus: the god of the winds, son of Jupiter

imperiō: with authority, supreme power; abl sing neut (imperium)

premit: presses, holds fast, checks, restrains; 3rd p sing present (premo) luctantīs = luctantēs: the wrestling, struggling; acc pl masc pres act part (luctor). In poetry -īs is often used instead of -ēs for the acc pl.

ventōs: winds; acc pl masc

-que: and

tempestātēs-que: and storms, tempests; acc pl fem (tempestas)

sonōrās: noisy, loud, resounding; acc pl fem. ac: and

frēnat: bridles, curbs, checks, restrains; 3rd p sing present (freno)

vinclīs: with ropes, chains, fetters; abl pl neut (vinclum)

et: and

carcere: with a prison, in a prison; abl sing masc (carcer)

………. “Illī indignantēs magnō cum murmure montiscircum claustra fremunt;”

Illī: they, those ones (the winds); nom pl masc

indignantēs: being angry, displeased, indignant; nom pl masc pres act part (indignor)

cum: with

magnō: great; abl sing neut

murmure: roaring, growling, grumbling; abl sing neut (murmur)

montis: of the mountain; gen sing masc (mons) circum: around + acc

claustra: the confined places, the barriers, doors, the fortress; acc pl neut (claustrum)

fremunt: they roar, growl, howl, grumble; 3rd p pl pres (fremo)

……….

“celsā sedet Aeolus arcescēptra tenēns, mollitque animōs et temperat īrās.”

celsā: in a lofty, high; abl sing fem (celsus)

arce: citadel, castle, fortress; ablative of place without a prep (arx)

sedet: sits; 3rd p sing present (sedeo)

Aeolus: god of the winds

tenēns: holding; nom sing masc pres act part (teneo)

scēptra: royal staffs, scepters; royal power or authority, sway; acc pl neut (sceptrum)

mollit-que: and softens, soothes, calms; 3rd p sing pres (mollio)

animōs: (their) spirits, minds, anger, rage; probably a play on the Greek origin “anemos” = wind; acc pl masc (animus)

et: and

temperat: moderates, regulates, calms, restrains; 3rd sing pres (tempero)

īrās: (their) angers, passions, furies; acc pl fem (ira)

………. “Nī faciat, maria ac terrās caelumque profundumquippe ferant rapidī sēcum verrantque per aurās.”

Nī = nisi: if not, unless

faciat: he did that; 3rd p sing pres subjunctive, where a imperfect subj would be used in prose. (facio)

quippe: indeed, truly, certainly

rapidī: (they, the winds) tearing away, seizing, violent, swiftly moving, rapid; nom pl masc (rapidus)

ferant: (they) would carry, carry away; 3rd pl present subjunctive (fero)

sē-cum: with them; abl pl; can be understood with both verbs, ferant and verrant.

maria: the seas; acc pl neut (mare)

ac: and

terrās: the lands; acc pl fem

caelum-que: and the sky, heavens; acc sing neut

profundum: vast, lofty; acc sing neut (profundus)

verrant-que: and would sweep (them) away, snatch, carry off; 3rd pl pres subjunctive (verro)

per: through

aurās: the air, the winds, blasts of air; acc pl fem (aura)

………. “Sed pater omnipotēns spēluncīs abdidit ātrīs,hoc metuēns, mōlemque et montīs īnsuper altōsimposuit,”

Sed: but

pater: the father (Jupiter); nom sing masc

omnipotēns: all-powerful, almighty, omnipotent; nom sing masc.

metuēns: fearing; nom sing masc pres act part (metuo) hoc: this, what the winds might do; acc sing neut (hic)

abdidit: put (them) away, shut them up, hid; 3rd p sing perfect (abdo)

ātrīs: (in) black, dark; abl pl fem (ater)

spēluncīs: caves, caverns; ablative of place w/out a prep, abl pl fem (spelunca)

imposuit: (and) placed upon (them); 3rd p sing pefect (impono)

īnsuper: above, over, from above, on top of (them); adverb

mōlem-que: and a huge, heavy mass, a massive structure; acc sing fem (moles)

et: and

altōs: high; acc pl masc

montīs = montes: mountains; acc pl masc (mons)

……….

“rēgemque dedit, quī foedere certōet premere et laxās scīret dare iussus habēnās.” dedit: (and) he gave (them); 3rd p sing perfect (do)

rēgem-que: a king (Aeolus); acc sing masc (rex)

quī: who; nom sing masc

certō: with a certain: abl sing neut (certus)

foedere: law, condition, rule, contract; abl sing neut (foedus)

scīret: would know how; 3rd p sing imperfect subjunctive (scio) et: both

premere: to suppress, restrain, check; infinitive (premo)

et: and

dare: to give; infin (do)

laxās: loose, slack, loosened, relaxed; acc pl fem (laxus)

habēnās: reins, ; acc pl fem (habena)

iussus: having been ordered (by Jupiter), when commanded; nom sing masc perfect pass part (iubeo)

If you had to change your surname to something latin, what would it be?

I've been wanting to change my surname to something original. My surname is derived from my ancestors slave owners and it's always bothered me. Not sure if I'll go through with it but it's an idea that I've been exploring. The hard part is finding something original that resonates with me. Any suggestions are appreciated.

My friend has been studying Latin for some time now and has taken up the habit of inserting Latin phrases into everyday conversations. I thought it would be funny if I had some lines to say back to him. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Nothing too insulting or gross, please. This is all in good fun. :)

Hi everyone,

I'm looking at some songs to allow my students to memorize for some extra credit (and extra help learning some grammatical forms) and I came across this song on the 3rd declension.

The lyrics are:

The -r -s -o -x -l -a -n -c -e -t…
gives -em… -l -a -n -c -e -t…
of the -is…
to the -ī…
in the -e or -ī.

The -ēs -a -ia…
give -ēs -a -ia…
of the -um… -ium…
to the -ibus…
in -ibus.

--

Am I correct in interpreting the song as saying:

Nominatives can/usually end in -r -s -o -x -l -a -n -c -e -t…
And neuter singular accusatives (being the same as the nominative singular) end in: -l -a -n -c -e -t…?

I never knew this rule of thumb and I was wonder if anyone knew where I could read more about it. Thanks in advance!

Does anyone know of an online list of all the Wheelock sentences at the end of each chapter? I don’t want an answer key or anything, it would just be easier to make my study guide if I didn’t have to manually copy each sentence down. Thanks!

Returning today to Einhard's Vita Karoli Magni, after a few months enjoying some other texts, this is the first sentence I encountered (1.6, p. 8 in 1925 Garrod & Mowat edn). It's been a while since I encountered so many absolutes at the start of a sentence:

Compositis in Aquitania rebus (With matters in Aquitaine having been settled,)

eoque bello finito, (and with the war there having been ended,)

regni quoque socio iam rebus humanis exempto, (with his partner in the kingdom also having now been removed from human affairs,)

rogatu et precibus Hadriani Romanae urbis episcopi exoratus (having been moved by the entreaty and beseechings of Hadrian, the bishop of the city of Rome,)

bellum contra Langobardos suscepit. (he undertook a war against the Lombards.)

By my count, that's three ablative absolutes and one nominative absolute before we get anywhere near a main clause. Showing off much, Einhard?

But I'll bet there are conredditores on this sub who could share examples even more Absolute-ly Huge than this one. I'll hope to see some in the comments!

Hi guys I have a burning ambition to learn how to read Latin. Well, burning ambition might be a bit strong, but I'd be pretty chuffed with myself if I managed to achieve it. I'm 72, so knocking on a bit. I can remember in the dim, distant past, doing Latin at secondary school for the first three years, but all I could ever remember of it was the present tense conjugation of "to love": amo, amas, amat yadda yadda. The teacher, Dr. Polgar, wasn't the most inspiring (like most teachers back then) - he also took us for Physics, which he managed to make equally interesting. Anyway, I've always had a bit of a fascination with ancient Rome, and I would love to be able to read the ancient texts in the original tongue. I have no real desire to write or speak Latin, although they may have to go hand in hand. Flash cards don't do it for me, so atm I'm using the Legentibus app and have bought the LLPSI textbook and the Exercitia Latina I exercise book, although I'm not concentrating so much on the written exercises. I'm working on the assumption that the only way to learn how to read Latin is to read Latin. Then read it again. And again... I do find I have a bit of a problem retaining new vocabulary, and Familia Romana gets a bit heavy in that respect as you work through it, and as I said, flash cards don't help. Hopefully I'm on the right track, but any additional resources you could point me in the direction of would be greatly appreciated! Thanks Doug 😊

4th year of me studying latin. Currently translating Pro Archia by Cicero. Second paragraph.

What the hell, man.

Is there a societal reason why the Romans liked neverending periods like this? Was this actually how they communicated?

I understand that Pro Archia is an oration and was made to be refined and fancy, but could anyone actually understand this wall of text on their first listening?

And even then, how Is this form of communication actually functional?

There was a latin quote I read when I was in grad school, pertaining to archives. It had something to do with like what isn't written down is forgotten or lost or something like that. Does anyone know what I'm talking about, I've been wracking my brain for sometime and can't seem to figure out the words to search to find it.

This question is specifically for those that know also Greek and has familiarity with Oxford Grammar of Classical Greek. I am looking for a Latin grammar which is the most similar to OGCG which I have found To be the best mach for me. So, what grammar should I been getting?

I am doing etymological research on various animal taxanomic name meanings, and one I've come across which I can't quite break apart as an extreme amateur is Aphanilopterus

I am aware pterus will have something to do with wings, particularly since this is about wasps, and I presume a- is a prefix; but the -phanilo- has me stuck

Some roots I've found as potential matches are phanos and phaino (admittedly greek roots) but I really don't know

I primarily am looking for a nudge in the right direction; is there a latin root I'm missing or should I be asking about other greek roots in a different subreddit?

1. Should you do the Pensa and the Exercitia (or only one or the other)?

2. Should you learn macrons?

3. (if yes on 2.) Should you write out all the macrons while doing the pensa and/or exercitia?

4. Should you type or write out on paper the pensa/exercitia? Does it make a difference?

Hi there, I have been looking into my family history and found I am a part of The Malcolm/MacCallum clan, I've found there to be two variations of the motto, that being “In ardua tendit” & “In ardua petit”. Translated to He has attempted difficult things

My question from a latin standpoint is there a major difference in direct translation from the two?

Thank you

This is a text I am translating (for my competitive examns). I have a doubt with "alium" here: in the frist Philippics from Cicero:

...quos quidem doleo in suspicionem populo Romano venire non modo metu, quod ipsum esset turpe, sed alium alia de causa deesse dignitati suae.

Well... in my head I understood:

without a doubt (quidem), it hurts me/ saddens me (doleo) that these (people) become suspicious for the roman people not precisely due to the fear, which would be shameful, but (they) lack of their dignity due to a different cause...

So... I do not see clearly why "aliud" is there.... if that word would not be there, the text would be the same for me.

I do not translate ipsum either. In my mother tongue it would be redandant and wrong.

I’ve liked the idea of learning at least some basic Latin for a while now and was wondering how you go about it. Clearly Latin is more complicated than a large number of more common languages so I assume the means of learning are different as well. As always any input is appreciated and thank you for your time.

(Sorry if this is a common question btw)

perficiuntur

I’m thinking it’s “pur-fis-e-un-tur” but I’m no expert and I wonder where the emphasis is placed. Thanks.

Hello

I recently stumbled upon the word naiades coming from greek Ναϊάδες. I do not know if i should pronounce the i as and i or a j and thus include in the scansion. Does someone has any records of it being used by latin poets to check scantion or does someone know ot by heart?

I thank you in advance.

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Salvete omnes!

I've recently been trying to get better at my grammar and trying to really understand why the tenses/moods are what they are when I'm reading and listening. The big struggle for me has been the future perfect indicative and the perfect subjunctive. Here is an example from De Amicitia:

"Nulla est igitur excusatio peccati, si amici causa peccaveris; nam cum conciliatrix amicitiae virtutis opinio fuerit, difficile est amicitiam manere, si a virtute defeceris."

My guess is that the "est" in each sentence is acting as future tense, since it is expressing a general truth, and the "peccaveris" and "defeceris" are future perfect indicative. The "fuerit" however I think is perfect subjuctive as part of the "cum" clause. (I.e. since his belief in your virtue was...)

One the other hand, could they be part of a general conditional, the subject being an unspecified, hypothetical person?

Thanks

Hello everybody,

I read Latin books, but sometimes I struggle with the fact that the notes are just shallow: I need REAL companion books that help me to understand the majority of the things line after line. For example: if I'm reading Cicero, I wanna know about all the references and metaphors he puts in, but with regular texts this is nearly impossible.

I'm so frustrated I still haven't found what I'm looking for! Can you recommend me something, please? It would be a huge favor for me! :)