/r/latin

Photograph via snooOG

This is a community for discussions related to the Latin language.

Rules

  1. Make it about Latin.
  2. All translation requests into Latin go in the pinned post.
  3. Machine translators and AI are not reliable.
  4. Show prior effort when requesting help with assignments.
  5. Be kind and argue in good faith.
  6. Demonstrate care and thought when posting.

FAQ

  • What Is Latin?
  • The language used natively by the Romans and later as an auxiliary language by the intellectual elites of Europe and the Roman Catholic Church.
  • Are There Different Kinds of Latin?
    • Latin is commonly classified into chronological strata: Archaic Latin, Old Latin, Classical Latin, Late Latin, Medieval Latin, and Neo-Latin. All of the eras after Classical Latin tended to refer back to it as a standard. Terms such as “legal Latin” and “scientific Latin” do not refer to versions of the language, only to the partial incorporation of Latin within certain domains.
  • How Is Latin Pronounced?
    • The pronunciation of Latin has varied significantly across time and place. The most common pronunciation scheme in academic institutions is the reconstructed pronunciation of Classical Latin, an attempt to reproduce the way Latin was spoken in Rome in the Classical period. Here is a recitation of In Catilinam by a skilled speaker. Here is a recitation of Petrarch's De Ascensu Montis Ventosi by a different speaker using a slightly different reconstruction (Calabrese) of Latin vowels.
    • Also popular is the ecclesiastical pronunciation of Latin, used in the Catholic Church and in music. It follows the traditional Italian pronunciation of Latin. Here is a priest reciting Augustine's Confessions. Here is a choir singing the hymn Pange Lingua Gloriosi.
    • Various regional pronunciations of Latin flourished throughout the Middle Ages, some of which still have currency in the present.
    • When Latin phrases are inserted into a modern language, often those languages will treat the Latin according to its own rules, as in the traditional English pronunciation.
  • What Curricula Can I Use To Learn Latin On My Own?
    • Effective language learning requires above all else a high volume of comprehensible input, that is, messages that can be understood by the learner. There are a variety of ways that can occur. A thorough explanation of comprehensible input and how it applies to Latin autodidacts can be found here.
    • Reading-based curricula seek to deliver comprehensible input by using some amount of Latin from the start and gradually increasing the vocabulary, diversity of forms, and complexity of sentences. Popular reading-based curricula include Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata; Cambridge Latin Course; Oxford Latin Course; Via Latina; Latin Via Ovid; and Suburani.
    • Other curricula exist based more on memorizing discrete grammatical concepts than on delivering a large volume of comprehensible input. Some of these include Moreland & Fleischer, Wheelock’s Latin, and Learn to Read Latin.
    • The moderators of this subreddit endorse Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata as the best overall curriculum. However, independent learners should read our Guide to LLPSI before beginning.
  • What Resources Exist Other than Textbooks?
    • It is not necessary to follow a single curriculum from start to finish, though that may be easier. Any program of progressively more difficult comprehensible input can work. For example, one redditor created this list that doubles as a tracking worksheet.
    • The app Legentibus by Latinitium offers high-quality books and audiobooks, mostly directed toward beginners.
    • YouTube channels featuring accessible spoken Latin
    • Novellas aimed at beginners
  • Can I Take Courses Online?
    • A number of qualified teachers and institutions exist offering remote learning options. See this comparison of options made in 2023.
  • Is DuoLingo Good?
    • No. It's a supplement for vocabulary and grammar practice, but cannot serve as a self-contained language course. It is incomplete and frequently rejects correct answers based on word order. Be careful when generalizing from its examples.
  • Are Machine Translators Good?
    • Most machine translators still frequently produce flawed and nonsensical Latin. Recent large language models such as ChatGPT have shown promise in producing and teaching Latin, but a beginner is not in a good position to evaluate their output.
  • What Other Communities Exist For Latin Enthusiasts?
    • The Latin Discord and LLPSI Discord offer support to learners and opportunities for everyday communication (including conversational Latin).
    • Various Facebook groups exist, but r/latin does not maintain a list.
  • Where Can I Find Things in Latin To Read?
    • The Packard Humanities Institute contains most of the Classical Latin corpus in a searchable format, though the texts are not always the current critical editions
    • Perseus Digital Library contains a similar searchable corpus, somewhat broader in scope
    • The Latin Library is an eclectic collection of Latin works in a plain-text format. There are occasional errors and the sources are sometimes unclear.
    • Corpus Corporum is a database containing a large number of late antique and medieval Latin works. The search function is currently broken.
    • Post-Reformation Digital Library contains thousands of links to digitized editions of early modern works. In Advanced Search there is a field to filter by language.
  • What are reliable online resources?
  • Is There a Master Resource List?
  • /r/latin

    109,144 Subscribers

    8

    An odd insult

    From Poggio Bracciolini's "Facetiae" (#91):

    Mos est loquendi, cum quempiam prae nobis contemnere volumus, ut dicamus: Ego te centies in die oppigneratum relinquerem apud cauponulam tabernam. Razello Bononiensi, viro prompto ad respondendum, quidam inter jurgandum hoc idem in coetu hominum objecit, extollens prudentiam suam, Razellum vero despiciens. Tum Razellus: 'Hoc tibi,' inquit, 'facillime concedo: cito enim res magni pretii et bonae dare pignori possunt. At vero tu ita, nequam, vilis et abjectae conditionis es, ut, si quis te per omnes fori tabernas et cauponas circumferret, nemo te nec pro aereo quidem nummo vellet accipere.' Hoc dicto, et circumstantibus risum movit, et dicacitatem hominis dicacitate compressit.

    What a strange insult that is, though! "I'd leave you as an IOU at a dive bar a hundred times any day." Go use that sick burn on your frenemies!

    3 Comments
    2025/02/03
    20:53 UTC

    2

    Where can I get the whole Carmina Burana?

    Where could I get a copy of all poems from Carmina Burana in a physical form? The songs don't need to be translated or annotated in any way, I just want the pure organized text I can work with. Btw, by the whole Carmina Burana I mean as many songs that have survived to this day and not just a collection of some poems

    5 Comments
    2025/02/03
    20:11 UTC

    12

    Ad Alpes – A Tale of Roman Life

    Thinking of purchasing this book as another title to read alongside Cambridge Latin course and familia Romana but am struggling to find many reviews , has anyone in the sub Reddit read it and could give me an idea if it’s worth purchasing as it is quite expensive, thank you in advance for any replies

    8 Comments
    2025/02/03
    17:32 UTC

    10

    In the Alaeddin Mosque of Eskişehir, built by the Seljuks in 1221, one of the stones used in its construction had this inscription. I saw it when visiting. Can anybody tell me what’s written on it?

    4 Comments
    2025/02/03
    15:47 UTC

    3

    Prefix Help: ad/en/pre

    This is more of an etymological question than a translation issue, but I'm curious about the Latin prefixes for the following words:

    • Attend - stretch toward (Latin prefix ad - "to, toward, near, very much")
    • Intend - stretch toward (Latin prefix en - "in, within, into, on, against, completely")
    • Pretend - stretch in front of (Latin prefix pre/prae - "before, in front of, forth")

    The etymology summaries of each word are linked above, and here is the list of prefixes I drew from.

    Main Question: Due to the "prepositional" nature of these prefixes, how should we interpret the way that each prefix modifies the base action (to stretch)?

    It seems like the difference between attention and intention is merely in degree. When you attend to something, you move or look toward it. But when you are intentional, you are directly in contact with the object of your intention. Makes sense to me.

    But when it comes to pretending, what do we think is being "stretched in front of"? Is it like a curtain or a costume being stretched in front of someone, obscuring the truth? The etymology page implies that it originally referred to a claim or assertion, but I'm not quite sure how to interpret this either in an archaic or modern sense.

    Apologies for the strange request, but I have absolutely no background in Latin.

    14 Comments
    2025/02/03
    13:16 UTC

    7

    What books/publishers focus on word-for-word literal translations of bilingual text rather than looser translation?

    I'm looking for books/translations/publishers that focus on word-for-word translations.

    A lot of the Loebs tend to be on the looser side, but it seems to vary dramatically from book to book.

    8 Comments
    2025/02/03
    01:39 UTC

    21

    Recommendation: Quid Es Tu? Podcast

    I'd like to recommend the podcast Quid Es Tu?

    My audio comprehension is way behind my reading comprehension. I find most recorded Latin content — particularly conversations — too fast and too accented to follow.

    Quid Es Tu was the first Latin conversation audio that I found slow enough, decipherable, and with a modest enough vocabulary to allow me to get something out of it.

    The Podcast started in 2020, randomly posted a few more episodes a few years later, and just dropped three more. No idea what their plan is long-term.

    But I've listened to them all and it's helped me a lot. You can probably start listening when you're 1/2 to 3/4ths through Familia Romana.

    The only downside is that they keep switching between classical and ecclesiastical pronunciation, which, for someone trying to learn, makes it more complex than necessary.

    But the hosts laugh and joke and the episodes at 10-17 minutes. Easy to fit into a busy day.

    1 Comment
    2025/02/02
    23:57 UTC

    7

    Summer Courses

    Hello all. I have been thinking about how to spend my summer holiday and decided to look for a Latin immersion programme. A good number, however, seem geared towards those who don't have much prior experience or are starting from scratch. I'm not brilliant, but can read pretty fluently (Virgil, for instance, without stopping too much), and can speak haltingly. Does anyone here with prior experience have any suggestions for good places to look to? I live in the UK but would be willing to head anywhere in the world if the provision was worth it. Many thanks in advance.

    11 Comments
    2025/02/02
    21:26 UTC

    12

    Amatur a me plurimum nec tamen vincitur

    This is a sentence from Pliny's letter 2.13, which I see translated as "I have the greatest affection for him, and he has the same for me". Obviously not a literal translation, and I can't grasp what to make of nec tamen vincitur. To begin with: is the verb vinco or vincio – ie. "but he isn't defeated" or "but he isn't bound"? Either way, there must be some secondary meaning at play here.

    9 Comments
    2025/02/02
    15:39 UTC

    3

    Where can I find latin verses with their measure on the net?

    I was measuring this verse:

    Et direpta domus et parvis casus Iuli

    And I got 2 doubts. Domus ends in a long -us since there is a stop there, isn't it? As for, Iuli, first I- sometimes is taken into account as a vocal and sometimes as a consonant, but here it seems to be considered as a vocal.

    Where can I find them with their metric measure for future doubts?

    4 Comments
    2025/02/02
    13:32 UTC

    9

    Translation requests into Latin go here!

    1. Ask and answer questions about mottos, tattoos, names, book titles, lines for your poem, slogans for your bowling club’s t-shirt, etc. in the comments of this thread. Separate posts for these types of requests will be removed.
    2. Here are some examples of what types of requests this thread is for: Example #1, Example #2, Example #3, Example #4, Example #5.
    3. This thread is not for correcting longer translations and student assignments. If you have some facility with the Latin language and have made an honest attempt to translate that is NOT from Google Translate, Yandex, or any other machine translator, create a separate thread requesting to check and correct your translation: Separate thread example. Make sure to take a look at Rule 4.
    4. Previous iterations of this thread.
    5. This is not a professional translation service. The answers you get might be incorrect.
    38 Comments
    2025/02/02
    12:01 UTC

    7

    appositional use in accusative

    in the sense of "make someone happy" Ive heard that an ut clause is ok but I was wondering whether

    facere aliquem (esse) felicem / facere aliquem lacrimantem

    is doable in that it's almost like a quasi oratio obliqua, I've known that "rogare aliquid aliquem" is a legit phrase but my dilemma is in knowing the subtle differences between the two

    slight update I know appositions can take participles and oratio obliqua needs an infinitive, but idk if the former is viable as a latij construction

    6 Comments
    2025/02/02
    06:00 UTC

    3

    Parsing line from Phaedrus "serae" locative?

    Quae se laudari gaudent verbis subdolis,

    serae dant poenas turpi paenitentia.

    English translation

    Those who rejoice when they are praised with deceitful words sooner or later pay the penalty with shameful regret.

    My question is about the word "serae". It seems to be used adverbially in the sense of later. Is this one of the occasional uses of the locative?

    7 Comments
    2025/02/02
    05:39 UTC

    8

    Thomas Aquinas

    Did Thomas Aquinas actually write 'hominem unius libri timeo' ??

    5 Comments
    2025/02/02
    03:05 UTC

    9

    How do we know if a vowel is naturally long if it's included in a syllable that is long by position?

    I would assume that scansion couldn't tell you if the vowel was naturally long. However, naturally long and short vowels are distinguished even when the syllable is long by position. But how do linguists know?

    6 Comments
    2025/02/02
    00:59 UTC

    11

    Cānticum nunc, o populī Turris Anoris!

    Cānticum nunc, o populī Turris Anoris,
    Nām Regnum Saurōnis in aeternum termināvit,
    Et Turris Obscūra deiecta est.

    Cānticum et jubilātis, o populī Turris Custodiāe,
    Nām vigiliae vestrae fūtile nōn fuit,
    Et Porta Nīgra fracta est,
    Et rēx vester per eam intrāvit,
    Et victor est.

    Cānticum et laetāminī, omnēs o Proles Occidēntis,
    Nām rēx tuus iterum adveniet,
    Et inter vōs habitābit
    Omnibus diēbus vitae vestrae.

    Et arbor ista aruit, renovābitur,
    Et ille in positās altās seret,
    Et urbs benedicētur.
    O populī, omnia cantāte!

    5 Comments
    2025/02/01
    21:54 UTC

    1

    Creating a song in latin📜

    Hi ,I'm curently working on a song with Roman and ancient aesthetic 100% written in latin! Wanna see it? https://youtube.com/@time_naut?si=nShQPEZG0mS5QPcJ

    7 Comments
    2025/02/01
    21:26 UTC

    18

    Here is the penultimate batch of neologisms from de muribus. https://www.moleboroughcollege.org/post/glossary-of-modern-words-in-latin

    24 Comments
    2025/02/01
    14:47 UTC

    3

    A Total Beginner

    Hello everyone, I’ve recently started to learn Latin so could you give me any tips or suggestions? Also it’d be nice if you can tell me some resources

    1 Comment
    2025/02/01
    00:27 UTC

    8

    MLK

    Una ex insignibus qualitatibus ducis est quod numquam—ne quidem per momentum—dubitet de facultate populi, quem ducit, ad perficiendum quidquid concipiat. Finge si Martin Luther King dixisset: 'Somnium habeo.' Certe, nēsciō an illi homines hoc perficere valeant.

    0 Comments
    2025/02/01
    06:29 UTC

    30

    Would getting to a high level in Latin reduce time to fluency in modern Romance languages?

    I recently finished reading Familia Romana and will be tackling the other supplementary LLPSI books + Fabulae Faciles and Ad Alpes soon before I continue on with Roma Aeterna and, of course, Latin literature. In other words, I’m studying Latin because I’m interested in Latin. I absolutely love the language! And I’m not interested in justifying studying Latin because of its benefits to language learning in general.

    That being said, the Dreaming Spanish curriculum (https://www.dreamingspanish.com/method) claims that “Speakers of other romance languages can divide the amount of required hours by 2”.

    Would Latin fall under this umbrella? Do I get an automatic “multiplier”applied for Spanish and French for eventually getting to a high level in Latin? I would like to study those languages once my Latin is in a good spot, so the answer doesn’t really affect my plans, but it would be extra motivating to know that I can apply some of what I know to modern languages, even if there is some semantic drift. It would also be helpful to know if I can plan for a somewhat shortened timeline for those languages.

    I know modern Romance language speakers often say they can follow along on videos of the earlier LLPSI chapters without having studied Latin before, simply because it’s so similar to their own language. Does the same go in the reverse? Would love to hear any data or personal experiences.

    32 Comments
    2025/02/01
    04:35 UTC

    26

    People who took latin in high school how was it? was it a help in getting into it and was it hard.

    I live in the US and am going into highschool. I need to pick a language and I'm deciding between either french and latin and I'm leaning more to latin than french but idk. I've heard people talk about that especially in the US they take 4 years of a language and then never use it. Not that i would use latin in my everyday life but I think it would be cool to know it, not really professionally but as more a hobby yk. I know that there is a lot to memorise grammar wise and my grammar in english already sucks so idk if I'll be any good at it but I'd still like to try.

    24 Comments
    2025/02/01
    02:01 UTC

    6

    Ius Quiritium vs Civitas Romanus

    I'm working on a translation of a correspondence between Pliny and Trajan where Pliny asks for the emperor to grant citizenship to his (male) doctor, and "Ius Quiritium" to several freewomen.

    Quare rogo des ei civitatem Romanam...Item rogo des ius Quiritium libertis Antoniae Maximillae, ornatissimae feminae, Hediae et Antoniae Harmeridi

    He also uses the same language in another letter where he thanks Trajan for granting his request:

    Ago gratias, domine, quod et ius Quiritium libertis necessariae mihi feminae et civitatem Romanam Arpocrati, iatraliptae meo, sine mora indulsisti.

    I assume the distinction between Arpocras and the women is because the latter would lack the full political rights afforded to male citizens, and understand that "Quirites" is used to refer to Romans in their civil capacity, as opposed to military, but am unsure how to render this into english. Would something like "civil rights" or "rights of civilians" be proper?

    3 Comments
    2025/02/01
    01:34 UTC

    38

    A buddy has been chanting "Ave dominus tenebrarum, manifestetur tuus infernus e imple me potestate hora hac" but nothing is happening, does he have a grammatical mistake somewhere?

    Asking for a friend. Also, is Optimus Prime Latin? Thanks!

    27 Comments
    2025/02/01
    01:26 UTC

    125

    Latin For Today by Gray and Jenkins (1928)

    Hey! Recently I found this first-year book published in 1928 year, and I always wanted to start learning Latin, but as this book is almost century old, I wonder if It would be good for the start and should I buy it?

    (And if Anyone can tell me, what the drawing on the book cover means?)

    12 Comments
    2025/01/31
    22:24 UTC

    8

    App to learn latin

    Hey guys, to sum up it is the title, but to be honest I need I should get LLPSI or something similar yet I cant really afford it so I would love if anyone knows apps(in apple(sorry))other than duolingo, cause duh(dont get me wrong)it sucks for grammar tbf, so good night,evening and morning for all!

    13 Comments
    2025/01/31
    18:38 UTC

    5

    Questions about Colloquia Personarum

    I've tried looking at previous posts on the sub, but most of the time it is just said that colloquia personarum is "essential" or "handy". Do I really need it? How much value is in it? Isn't it just further reading practice of the new grammar introduced in each chapter? Would you say that listening to it on the ScorpioMartianus youtube channel orovides the same value as reading it?

    5 Comments
    2025/01/31
    17:19 UTC

    6

    Latin resources for native spanish speakers

    I'm curious about whether is Latin resources for spanish speakers. I'm Mexican and I haven't found any book, nor website, etc. for a spanish speaker. Do you know if there's any?

    5 Comments
    2025/01/31
    15:55 UTC

    5

    Familia Romana, CAP XXIX, 132-133

    Why is "pudet" not "pudeo"? Is not Lydia speaking of her own shame? I do not understand how it is possible to be speaking here in the third person.

    5 Comments
    2025/01/31
    12:10 UTC

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