Hi everyone! Lots of good questions and posts lately from newcomers and familiar faces.

Please introduce yourself and share a bit about your journey. Also tap the poll and respond to learn more about your peers on the sub.

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Heavenly Father, I come before you today to intercede on behalf of those who are struggling within the confines of their current beliefs. I pray for those who seek the courage to walk by faith, not by sight - to recognize the truth and freedom that comes only from you.

Grant them the strength to trust in your divine plan for salvation, which rests not in the hands of man or a denomination but in your all-powerful grace. Enlighten them with your Word and help them to see beyond the doctrines that bind their spirits. Instill in them the wisdom to discern your voice and the bravery to step away from teachings that stray from your truth.

I ask you to reveal to them the true nature of Jesus - His life, His sacrifice, and His glorious resurrection. May this knowledge transform their lives, renew their minds and guide them toward the everlasting joy and peace found in You through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.

Bless them with the understanding that eternal life and victory are promises you make to all who believe and trust in you alone. May they embrace the freedom that comes from this trust, celebrating the joy and hope that outshine any earthly concern.

In the mighty name of Jesus, I pray, Amen.

Why or why not.

Luke seems to think it's a parable/illustration when you read his account.

“There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah’s faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1914, 1918 and 1925.…they also learned to quit fixing dates for the future and predicting what would come to pass on a certain date.…” Vindication 1931, Vol. 1, pp. 338-39

"Reports are heard of brothers selling their home and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end." Our Kingdom Ministry 5/1974, p. 3

“Considerable expectation was aroused regarding the year 1975….Statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year was more of a probability than a mere possibility. It is to be regretted… the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date.” Watchtower 3/15/1980, p.17

Index of Watchtower Errors,” David A. Reed, editor, Compiled by Steve Huntoon and John Cornell

Jesus is not a created being, and one day, all eyes will be opened and whether you mourn or rejoice in our divine King’s return, every knee will bow and worship the risen Savior. The misunderstandings of his nature hinge on one keyword, firstborn, which crumbles when stacked against more explicit scripture.

[NOTE: Not a single reference to the Trinity has to be made to defend the nature of Jesus].

Since JWs have their list of scriptures to “prove” Jesus is created, let’s apply logic and more scripture to refute that the Messiah is a created being:

Logical Argument:

• God is eternal, having no beginning or end.
• Jesus is recognized as the Son of God, sharing in the divine nature of His eternal Father.
• Jesus is also born of the Virgin Mary, making him fully human in addition to being fully divine.
• As the Son of God, Jesus inherits the divine attributes of his Father, including eternality.
• Jesus’ birth from Mary does not denote creation but incarnation, the taking on of human flesh.

Let’s take Logic further:

• Only God can create the universe and everything in it from nothing.

  • Jesus is described as the creator of ALL (not “[other]” things (John 1:3, Colossians 1:16).
  • Since Jesus possesses the unique creative power of God, He must share in the uncreated, eternal nature of God.

• Omniscience (all-knowing) is a quality that can only belong to an uncreated, eternal being.

  • Jesus demonstrated omniscience during his earthly ministry (knowing the Samaritan woman's life history in John 4).
  • Jesus' possession of divine omniscience affirms His eternal and uncreated nature.

• Worship is due only to God and forbidden to be directed at created beings (Exodus 20:3-5).

  • Jesus accepted worship on multiple occasions (Matthew 14:33, John 20:28).
  • Jesus’ acceptance of worship without rebuke or correction suggests His self-understanding and portrayal as God, not a created being.

• Immutability, the quality of being unchanging over time, is a divine attribute.

  • Scripture affirms that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8).
  • Jesus’ immutability indicates that He is not a created being with a starting point in time but eternally exists as God, consistent and unchanged.

If Jesus had a beginning, he would not possess the full nature of God, which is eternally existent and uncreated. This would contradict the scriptural affirmations of his full deity.

Biblical Evidence:

John 1:1-3 - “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made.”

• This passage states that Jesus (the Word) was present at the beginning with God and was God, indicating his eternal existence. Furthermore, it states that everything was made through him, implying he himself is uncreated since he is the agent of all creation.

Colossians 1:16-17 - “For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”

• These verses reinforce that Jesus is the creator of all things and pre-exists all things. The phrase “he is before all things” emphasizes his preeminence and existence before any created order.

Revelation 1:8 - “‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God, ‘who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.’”

• Jesus identifies himself as the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, a title denoting eternal existence. This title is used for God, highlighting Jesus’s divine nature and eternal existence.

Micah 5:2 - “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”

• This prophecy regarding Jesus’s birthplace also speaks of his origins being from ancient times, further suggesting an eternal nature rather than a created beginning.

Combining logical reasoning with these scripture, **it becomes clear that Jesus is described as having an eternal, uncreated nature consistent with the nature of God. This underlines traditional Christian doctrine of Jesus's divinity and eternal existence, distinct from all created beings..

Any religion teaching against the traditional and original gospel as Arians do, is pure heresy.

1. Do you believe Norway is correct to retire their state funding of Jehovah Witnesses?

2. Do you think this legislation will have a positive effect on the future of the Organization?

3. Have your shunned family members recently had a visit from JWs stating they were no longer practicing shunning?

The NWT translators translate וְרוּחַ in Genesis 1:2 as "active force." Is this an accurate translation of the Hebrew? Let's all find out together!

I asked on the Hebrew subreddit. It's composed of people who speak Hebrew as well as scholars who focus on the language itself. Lots of people who spent their whole lives dedicated to perfect understanding of the Hebrew language.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hebrew/comments/1cotwiq/is_%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%97_accurately_translated_as_active_force/

So far, Watchtower is losing 0-5. Maybe some serious Hebrew scholars will chime in at the end of the day and defend the NWT translation.

I know I'm sitting on pins and needles.

Hi

I am in my early thirties, and recently and unexpectedly lost my jw mom.

I need help with a few things, questions and concerns, and I hope you have some tips for me. But first some context.

• Context -

Almost my whole family is jw, and I grew up in a jw family. with jw friends, etc. However I was very early with researching org history and I had a habit of asking the elders questions that they frowned upon. As a result I was never baptised and I moved out and away when I was 18. Fast forward 10+ years, and I am happily married, and have 2 kids. I believe in Christ, and I am no perfect man, but I will not answer for any wrongdoings done by the organisation. I have to much fear and love in God to give my life to a organisations that violates the bible. example

Deuteronomy 18:21-22, Luke 14:5, Mattew 12:31

TLDR; I grew up as a jw, but I don't want to answer to, and be hold accountable with the org wrongdoings. Therefore my faith with Jesus is my own.

• Questions and thoughts -

1. Is a jw funeral in 2024 going to be an infomercial about the watchtower like I remember them to be from my own childhood?

2. I am going to see a lot of people that I knew from childhood. These are people that prior didn't respond to my texts, and they clearly don't want anything to do with me (they cut me off). I don't want to be disrespectful at my mom's funeral towards anyone, but I also find it hard that these people actually care and are sincere towards me when they bring their condolences. What to I tell them?

3. I would guess that most of the jw approaching me with condolences are going to talk about their "we have the truth" and resurrection, and that they want me back in the congregation. How do I deal and respond to the fact that they think they have single handed ownership over salvation trough their org? maybe John 3:16?

4. What to I tell my young kids, to prepare them for this jw people and funeral?

5. I was in a meeting with my jw family and the funeral company. I see that there is a lot of focus on jehovah. Jesus was not mention a single time. It felt relly weird, but I did not say anything because I don't want to start a discussion. And I feel like a religious conversation is going to spiral out of control very fast.

I would like to know why or why not you believe what you do.

Why do you believe the Bible is completely without error and what we have today classed as the canonical Bible is 100% God's word?

no circular reasoning please.

Personally I beleive there are errors but our faith shouldn't be in the texts it should be in Christ and his father. so I don't object to arguments that show the bible we have today has errors or doctrinal inconsistencies.

I still believe we derive a great amount of Christian knowledge from the Bible and other texts around this time regarding Christianity.

Look forward to hearing responses.

In another thread, the topic of the NWT versus the Greek manuscripts came up. It is EXTREMELY obvious that a JW is pretending he knows Greek. I thought about cross posting it on r/Koine, but it would be just too embarrassing.

Is this common? Does it happen in the Kingdom Halls? If I tried to make any of the statements he made in my church, my pastor or assistant pastor would give me some resources on learning Greek.

What I can't get over is...of all the things you could fake on the internet...faking knowing Greek is waaaay harder than it may seem. You can't just copy and paste a couple of statements from The Watchtower and claim that you know the rules of Greek grammar. So many of the statements made are so obviously false that you almost couldn't read a bible if they were applied throughout the bible.

I've noticed in my one-on-one bible study, the elders I am studying with NEVER want to go to the Greek - even refusing to look at the Kingdom Interlinear for prooftexts that they raise. How common is it for a Kingdom Hall to have someone who knows basic Greek (the alphabet, some vocabulary, basic grammar rules, etc.)? If so, where do they go to learn or what resources do they use?

Today I watched a perfectly healthy 17 year old die after a crash (not his fault) because his parents wouldn't allow a blood transfusion. 60 more years he had on this Earth to do good. He could have lived. It was that simple.

You guys came to my door last week and come every month or so - why do you allow healthy people to die?

God made it so we could survive with medicinal advances - this has been the worst show of humanity. Please explain why you would left such a young person die in such an awful way.

You know that God is on his throne in heaven. You know that after Christ died he sat on the right hand side of God’s throne.

Show me one place in the Bible it says that the holy spirit sits on the left side and I will believe the trinity.

Subjection = / = equality

1 Cor 15:24 Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

At the end, after Jesus’ 1000 year reign as King of God’s Kingdom, he will hand the Kingdom back to his God and Father, and continue subject to God forever.

Subjection = / = equality

The trinity is unscriptural. Jesus is subject to God now and forever.

One of the things that makes me smile and cry at the same time is when people hear the teachings of Witnesses and they say oh, they made that up or that is from “their” Bible. They fail to realize that the teachings of the Witnesses were there long before the Witnesses found them and brought them to light. Even Charles Russell was inspired to study the Bible and its teachings by someone else.

is it true that Jehovah’s Witnesses can’t vote? Because voting is of this world

11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·niʹca, for they accepted the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

Approximately 70CE this was wrote.

The bible canon in particular the new testament wasn't canonized by the early church until the 4th - 5th century.

Is there any way know for certain what here "scriptures" were?

16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,

Approximately 64CE this was wrote.

Same gist as above - what exact scriptures would Paul have been referring too?

Jesus explicitly said not to transfer from house house when sending his disciples out preaching - the harvest (Luke 10:7 & it's context)

Why do Jehovahs Witnesses seem to not apply Jesus words here? Am I missing something?

The bible clearly teaches Jesus is our father.

Although they don't believe You can earn your Salvation and that only through the sacrifice we can be saved, at the same time they often try to add works like going door to door as much as You can and all that, they also in their day to day don't make that much emphasis on faith but rather in being active in the field or being part of the theocratic school or somthing and all that, nad when You dont have enough faith they Say that You don't have it cuz You dont do enough works.

I was reading some articles on JW.org. Some of the Awake articles, some Watchtower, some of the videos, etc., and I think I came up with a great idea.

A lot of online news publishers allow comments from the public below news articles. It seems like this would be a great opportunity for the organization to allow wider discussion on the topics they present below each article, video, etc.

It would help them get feedback within the organization and know what to focus on in future articles. It would be like a weekly meeting, but without the time constraints for comments, so it would allow for much more in-depth study of the material they present. Seems like an easy win to me.

What do JW's think? How could I recommend this to the organization? It seems like they already have the hard part down - a tremendous amount of available content for people to read. There are many pre-built off-the-shelf solutions to block spam these days. You could probably implement the feature and be up and running in 2-3 days.

Below is an explanation of the two hopes the Watchtower teaches. This is why the average JW cannot partake of the emblems they pass around each year signifying Christ's body and blood. According to their leaders, they simply aren't in the new covenant. They say its a "carefully arranged legal provision involving God" and 144,000 people. The majority of Jehovah's witnesses are not in the new covenant and are even made to feel happy about it. Millions of them never expect to meet the man who died for their sins, because, according to the Watchtower, He isn't their mediator. JW's are actually taught to be happy with that prospect. How can any Christian be happy thinking they will never meet Christ?

​

To grasp what Paul is saying, we must first appreciate that the Bible sets out two destinies for faithful humans: (1) perfect life on a restored earthly paradise and (2) life in heaven for Christ’s “little flock,” numbering 144,000. (Luke 12:32; Revelation 5:10; 14:1-3) Christendom teaches that all good people go to heaven, which unscriptural position has colored the general view, so that Jesus is considered a go-between for all such people. What, though, does the Bible indicate? ... the new covenant is not a loose arrangement open to all mankind. It is a carefully arranged legal provision involving God and anointed Christians.

... the term “mediator” has a legal significance,’ and “although in this passage, in contrast to Heb 8:6, the [covenant] is not mentioned, one must nevertheless presuppose the meaning ‘mediator of the covenant,’ as the context shows.” Professor Oepke observes that 1 Timothy 2:5 presents Jesus as “the attorney and negotiator.”...

...Think of a legal case in which an attorney is involved. His role may be not so much that of a lawyer arguing for justice as that of one who is mediating or bringing about a legal contract acceptable to and beneficial to two parties. Of course, you are not in that legal case, so in that sense he is not serving as your attorney. Yet he may be your very close friend who in other ways gives you valuable help....

Consequently, 1 Timothy 2:5, 6 is not using “mediator” in the broad sense common in many languages. It is not saying that Jesus is a mediator between God and all mankind. Rather, it refers to Christ as legal Mediator (or, “attorney”) of the new covenant, this being the restricted way in which the Bible uses the term.

w89 8/15 pp. 30-31

Questions From Readers

***paraphrased

How can they say there are two hopes when the Bible says "There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called;" Ephesians 4:5

As far as the new covenant goes it is said to save completely those who come to God thru Jesus. There is no mention of some secondary benefit to people who are not in the new covenant. You're either in it, or you are ...out.

'Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant....but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood.  Therefore "he is able to save completely those who come to God through him", because he always lives to intercede for them... 'Hebrews 7:22-25

Who will Jesus come to dine with? Only 144,000 special Jehovah's witnesses? Nope, Jesus will come in and dine with "anyone" who opens the door to His voice. "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me." Revelation 3:20

That doesn't sound like Christ is someone else's attorney. He is our Lord and Savior... or He isn't. That's the choice, there's no second option. The Watchtower seems intent on keeping as many people as they can out of heaven and out of the new covenant. Why is that? Every Jehovah's witness needs to demand an answer

​

The Bible states that God is a Trinity. "Genesis 1:26:Let us create Man in Our image." So why so arian? Or how about the birthday thing. The Bible never condemns it. Or the failed prophetic signs, which makes me assume the Watchtower is a false prophet who needs no attention.

JW Theory: Jesus became present in 1914. At this time, the anointed asleep in death were gathered to him. Afterwards, the living anointed will be gathered to him when he returns at the Great Tribulation.

This is based on the following verses: (1 Thes 4:15-17 NWT)

15 For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word*, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17* Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord.

It's important to note that this is "Jehovah's word" - who should argue against that? In addition, the living anointed are gathered "afterwards" - at a later date. This is critical to the reason why there are still people claiming they are anointed.

So everything seems to fall in line. But does it? What does the bible really say?

1 Thes 4:15-17 Kingdom Interlinear Translation (original Greek copy manuscripts)

15 This for to You we are saying in word of Lord, that we the living the (ones) being left around into the presence of the Lord not not we should come ahead of the (one) having slept*; 16 because very (one) the Lord in command, in voice of archangel and in trumpet of God, he will come down from heaven, and the dead (ones) in Christ will stand up first, 17 thereupon* we the living the (ones) being left around at the same time together with them we will be snatched in clouds into meeting of the Lord into air; and thus always together with the Lord we shall be.

Notice the difference?

The NWT uses the word "afterward" and omits the phrase "at the same time".

It's plain for the reader of the Greek manuscript that at Christ's presence, the anointed dead are raised up first, and at the same time, together with them, they are all gathered to be with Christ.

Think of it as an announcement like this: everyone on the left, first stand up. And together with those on the right already standing, all of you now leave the room, at the same time.

The living won't go ahead of the dead, but will go at the same time.

Also notice the difference between "we will always be with the Lord" (NWT) and "and thus always together with the Lord we shall be" (KIT)

The NWT leads the reader to believe that when this process is complete, they will always be with the Lord from that point forward. However, the KIT makes it clear that there will not be a time when some of the anointed are with the Lord and some are not but in fact, they will always be with the Lord together.

This puts the faithful and discreet slave in a sticky position. If Jesus became king in 1914 why were they not gathered to Christ "at the same time, together with" the resurrected anointed?

Could it be that are not really anointed?

Could it be Jesus never became present in 1914?

Surely not.

The problem is further compounded when you review other scriptures discussing the same subject - the NWT adds or changes words to depict a duration or twofold process to the gathering of the anointed whereas the Greek says nothing of the sort.

According to Jw teachings, Jesus is the archangel Michael. But when did the Bible ever say Michael (the archangel) would be the Lawgivers, judge, King, Savior.

Isaiah 33:22 - The Lord is Judge, Law giver, Savior etc.

So where in the Bible is Michael attributed to being the lawgiver, judge, king, and savior?

In the New Testament Jesus has these attributed to him?

• “King of King, Lord of Lords (1 Timothy 6:13-16)
• “Savior” (1 John 4:14; Acts 5:31)
• “Law” - Jesus said the Law was written about him. God gave Moses the Law, Jesus is the law (John 5:46-47)

So how can Michael the Archangel be the lawgiver when no where in Bible does it state this or give Michael the archangel these attributes?