I see online and in person people be so much more beautiful than me.

I dont mean this in a physical way. I quite like how I look aside from when I’m unshaven.

Everyone is so deeply themselves and I dont even know who I am. They’re so beautiful in how unashamed they can be, how earnest and honest with their emotions they can be.

I feel like I havent felt anything other than the occasional surge of anger strongly since puberty. The last time I remember trying to cry it felt like I was forcing the tears out, despite it being during a time when a whole social circle of mine was falling a part due to my fault. I’ve even been a little bit envious of people on HRT due to its side effect of making them cry far far more easily.

I feel grey and boring and not ugly but un-beautiful, like there’s just absolutely nothing about me worth loving over anything or anybody else, I just want to be myself and emotional and open and fragile but in a good way and just all these things that I’m not.

I want to be myself but I dont know who myself is, or if im brave enough to become who that is.

I keep trying to cry and nothing comes out. I miss being able to cry.

I just dont know. I’m not in danger to myself or anyone around me, dont worry, i just feel like shit because of all this

So I’m a virgin, never had a girlfriend etc. I felt very bad about myself for a long time (even making posts here) and it just got to a point it was so bad I actually went to therapy to seek help. Now, it helped tremendously (yay). Whilst yes, there were moments where I felt bad, it was always just a moment. Nothing really happened women wise. I got rejected twice, sure I felt bad for slightly longer but just got on top of it.

I guess the problem of me hating myself was kind of gone. But here’s the problem. In the last 2 months I’ve just heard so many times of people insulting virgins. People I actually like. A good friend of mine legit turned on me and started laughing at me as he was hanging out with his other friends for me being a virgin.

A decently good friend of mine was apparently talking shit behind my back for being a virgin.

And just all of those things have spiked my self hatred again for being a virgin etc. But I know from my past that I tend to blame women just so it eases the pain of me hating myself. So what can I do?

Hello everyone. Stumbled upon this sub and figured it’d be a decent place to ask this question.

First things first I don’t really consider myself an incel. I don’t hate women or blame other people for my problems. I’m just a loser, that’s all :)

So here’s the thing: I recently read a Reddit post talking about a certain type of guy. The kind of guy who’s obsessed with the concept of a relationship, so he’ll settle for any woman he mildly likes just as long as she fills that role for him. They also described these guys as being extra clingy because they don’t have too much going on in their personal lives. I had the horrifying realization that this accurately described my one and only dating experience. I liked her, but I was more into the idea of a girlfriend than I was into her. This really shook me up.

To be entirely fair to myself, I was raised in a cult and kept out of school. I never had friends or always first relationships, all this stuff is new to me. But that’s no excuse, I have to change.

I’ve decided to devote myself to self improvement. I’m gonna focus on school, start running to lose weight, find less nerdy, more normal hobbies, finally learn to drive, and try to make more money so I can be self sufficient.

Here’s where my question comes in: I’m a hopeless romantic, I’m constantly thinking about relationships and girls and all that stuff. I need to cut that out while I’m on my mission, because until I perfect myself it’s never gonna happen. All it’s doing is creating unnecessary longing. So how do I stop caring about this stuff for now, or at least make the feelings less intense?

Thanks in advance!

!so for context, im 21yo and a gay guy. i live in a red area where there arent many gay men; i've tried dating apps and clubs but i just cant for the life of me find men MY AGE that are into me. or even AROUND my age. i tried grindr and after an hour of waiting and looking not one guy under the age of 40 something was into me. i even had a pic of me wearing a skirt on my profile. and ive tried tinder, bumble, cmb, hinge, you name it. looked at match, or meetups com. no events near me within an hour drive.!<

!so here's my mindset just so you guys have an idea of how far i am into being an incel: its gotten to the point where due to my loneliness and my involuntary strict *observation* of relationships, i've gotten bitter, distateful, jealous and angry at women, and ive wrongfully redirected all my dating life anger onto them. i know. ive been looking for a place to vent and a place where id be able to receive help but all of the mens mental health subreddits strictly forbid me explaining the context of my situation, due to it being gender based.!<

!but my train of thought is as follows: women are the privileged in society, women could never understand my struggles as a gay person, and women have the entire dating world at their fingertips. now im making this post because this hate has been brewing inside me for a while and ill accept any stone throwing or rude awakenings because i also don't want to think like this. in the dating world since im basically forced to only watch people in relationships, i see men being the ass of every relationship and women STILL being unsatisfied despite all the benefits they get just by being a woman.!<

!my mind (these are all so fucking generalized, i know its wrong and so bad) my mind thinks this.!<

!1. from birth women arent as expected to be successful and they're taught never to take shit from men. men NEED to get a good job and provide, and they need to hold the door open for women, happy wife happy life, etc.

2. women aren't expected to make the first move, men are. they also arent expected to choose venues, pay for the date, arent expected to be the one doing the seducing. dates, from what i (wrongly) believe, has women gatekeep sex and dates are basically an attempt for the man to get laid. which in my mind is absolutely fucked up, and women think its fucked up too, but they take ADVANTAGE of it. and if you think im wrong, then just shut me up. but women gatekeep sex objectively and they act as if sex is a gift that they give to men, and not something mutually beneficial or enjoyable. they make the men work for it, which is disgustingly gross to me. every day i see men drool over women and i think how fucking lucky they are and what id give to recieve all that attention from decent looking guys. in my mind, women should be thankful they get all this attention.
3. and as for expectations.. one second on twitter and you see how very evident and disgusting gender roles are. women have stricter expectations; height, abs, or at least a dad bod, they want the man to be successful, have money, they arent going to settle down with a guy with no car or no house. nothing going for him. but a man, a successful man, could very well be fine laying and taking in a woman with no car, one working at a minimum wage place, just because she's a woman.
4. physical expectations and just general attraction and attitude between the two genders is what really really scared me and made me think about how toxic my mind is. a woman could be unattractive, just like flat out not good looking and still be able to find sex with an average-good looking guy. like, she could be overweight, broke, or even just flat out unpleasant personality wise but there'd always be a regular looking guy that'd be into her with the whole "hear me out" thing. and you already know where im going with this with the whole reverse the roles thing. no successful woman with a house a car and money would take in a fat neckbeard, thus the creation of the og incels. but a sexy guy would be into an overweight girl or a "bbw". there's even a porn term for it with millions of searches. the fact a woman can just let herself go in every aspect of life and still be able to get sex, or even get PAID for sex or paid for selling photos or videos of her body is just so unfair and disgusting to me. and you can't act like it's not true when you have millions and millions of videos of guys moaning and loving fucking fat women. skinny, fat, skeleton, fucking whale, 0 tits, massive tits, there's always a group of millions of men into that. "flat is justice". all body types are fine. even if some guy calls them ugly, it doesnt really matter because around the corner a guy will bombard her with compliments. can't say the same for the attitude towards penis size and how objectified men are in that sense. nobody says "loose pussy energy". and they're able to sell photos of their fucking feet man. its a REAL thing that makes money. onlyfans is huge too. men cant do this or at least cant do this en masse. men cant just stuff their fucking faces and still be able to be called "thicc" or a bbw, or "plump". no "hear me out"s unless they're rich or have impeccable humor. also women's stupid fucking tits get fatter the chubbier they get, and mens do too but man tits are deemed ugly and horrid by society. so thats fucking unfair. a 5/10 woman is "hmm... ok" status just by that alone while a 5/10 guy has to have something going for him
5. and obviously, the lack of representation. gay male representation is scarce and women have representation everywhere under the sun. we don't have that. and here's the toxic fucking bow for this rant: women could never understand gay men's struggles because they're living what we don't have. being treated like queens, having men bend over backwards to sleep with them, and after ALL THAT they still have the audacity to complain on a daily basis. this isn't just my "chronically online take", ive seen it myself. i know 4 different girls in person that have already had over 5 exes while i havent even had my first, because IM GAY and barely ANYONE IS. and i could make a huge bullet 6 about double standards but theres already enough delirious irrational sludge for one post, and im sure a lot of you already know how that one goes.!<

!tldr; my mind is so backwards and im just so involuntarily celibate as a gay man to the point where im jealous of the attention women receive, im angry at the way women manipulate men, how unattractive women get more play than i do, angry at how much bullshit men put up with. i want to change my sexist mindset, and understand women's struggles. i see posts of women talking about their struggles with thousands of upvotes and scoff. my brain believes women are lucky to be where they're at compared to where i'm at. my goal is to just be able to get rid of this thinking entirely. i even used to be a feminist during covid, but i obviously went wrong somewhere along the way. i want to have a normal mindset, and not get angry every time i see a hetero couple. i NEED to change for the better. this line of thinking is destroying me. please shut me down or be kind rude i dont care. i just want to be better.!<

edited ; ^many of these bullet points i rescind. a lot of my mindset was shot down in the thread and just from this a lot of my irrationality has dissipated because my brain can't hold onto those points anymore since they've been logically disrupted. i really do appreciate everyone taking their time and dealing with my BS. really just ignore most of what i've said besides my last few replies because ive obviously been decimated in here with my thinking lmao. which is good, i wanted that. and i needed it. particular lynx's response is what hit me most effectively so if you're an incel reading from weeks in the future, maybe their response can help you.

i see it all with more nuance now. thank you. this bitterness has been snowballing for months, im glad its being cut off here

Hello, all! Now, I must preface by saying that I’m not a true incel in the modern sense. I’ve never really had misogynist views or anything. However, I’ve also never been on a date or ever talked to a woman in a romantic sense, so I feel like my question might be suited here. And if it isn’t, please direct me somewhere more fitting.

So, I’m 25M, and I’ve never really felt functional enough to find a GF. I’ve had a pretty difficult life and times when things seem to be going well never seem to last. In fact, part of the reason I want to ask for advice is because I got diagnosed with cancer a few months ago and while the cancer I have is very treatable and I’m going to beat it, it does kind of eat me up inside that if it was more serious, I might’ve died without so much as having kissed a girl. So understandably, I’m somewhat motivated to find one once I’ve beaten it.

Unfortunately, due to various circumstances, my life experiences have been very different from most other people and I find myself intimidated interacting with them. To give some background, I grew up extremely poor and my mother was not a great parent. I ended up refusing to go to school in 4th grade because I hated going and my mom just pulled me out. She then got addicted to drugs and pretty much ignored me my whole adolescence and I never went back to school until my mom lost our house and I had to get a GED. I then went to a job training program and one of the counselors said I’d probably be a good fit to go to community college, since I was pretty smart despite not going to school. I went and it went great, both academically and socially, but I started just before Covid and my college experience was ruined when it happened. Then I went to a 4-year and and failed out cause I was having a bad depressive episode.

Since then, I’ve mostly been alternating between trying to fix things and falling into deep depressions. Then cut to this year, where I was actually making strides to be genuinely functional but then got cancer. My life has mostly left me completely detached from those around me, especially those who are actually functional. I do have kind of a social circle, but it’s not made of the most functional people and it’s not a good conduit to find a partner. But when I try to interact with more “normal” people, I don’t know how to relate to them. For instance, I can’t drive a car, I never went to high school, I’ve never had a close friend or a GF. And that’s the less heavy stuff. The only time I can ever interact comfortably with people is if they share my niche interests, which really limits things.

I want to try harder to build a social circle and date when I’m done with my cancer treatment, especially because I’m worried the affection that people have shown me on account of my condition will go away. However, I don’t know how to get close to people, especially people who are “normal”. I can rarely contribute to conversations unless it involves my niche interests or my personal misery. I also find myself reluctant to ask people questions about themselves since I know I probably won’t understand what they’re talking about since my life experiences are so different. But at the same time, the opportunities to interact with people who share my hobbies are limited since my hometown sucks. My social skills are nowhere near as bad as someone who rarely talked to people for 6-7 years, but I still find myself lost in conversations. How do I overcome this lack of shared reality to actually form connections with people?

Edit: I should add this applies to more basic things. For instance, I only listen to Japanese music and I haven't seen most movies other people have. The difference between me and most people I encounter everyday is reasonably large.

I look in the mirror and don't see a person that's deserving of love from anybody, I see nothing but flaws, my hair is too long, I have a weird body shape, high voice etc. I've also feel like I'm a terrible person for things I've done online.

I want to change how I view myself because I know it's part of why people see me as so repulsive, it's like I have a black cloud hanging over my head all the time. I must also look scary because people are not polite to me, they don't hold the door open, say thank you or you're welcome or anything like that.

I don't know how to just relax and let things happen, but nothing ever does happens to me, I think maybe if I looked approachable and friendly? Do women see a guy and immediately judge about whether he's safe to talk to or not? I know I'm not dangerous but other people probably think I am and that makes me very depressed. I also don't really know if this helps but I also feel very stiff and awkward out in public too, I've never really had fun before. I want to learn to be happy and for that to come across to other people.

I am an average guy. With not a big social circle yet. So the primary way for me to meet potential partners is through dating apps. But its tough for me as I do not get likes on dating apps. But what works for me is Hinge. I have consistently sent likes with decent propts everyday. It takes at max 30 minutes a day if you are thinking too much about the prompts if not it hardly takes about 15 minutes to spend all your likes.

It was rough for the first week. I did not match with a single woman. But in the second week. I matched with someone who is my type. And after texting for some days we finally decided to meet today. And it was fun. I have not had this type of fun in my entire life. We talked and then went on a walk later. While crossing the road I asked her if she wanted to hold hands. And she happily agreed and we walked for like an hour talking holding hands. I was so touch starved that holding hands felt like heaven to me. We ate ice cream and went to window shopping in a mall where she chose some clothes for me.

It was a good day. So I just want to say my fellow people who are depressed and not finding a way out is that do not give up. Some months before I did not go on a single date. But now I have been to two beautiful dates. It's still less but for me it matters a lot. And please do not give into the black/red pill propaganda cause they only fuck you up mentally and make you angry.

I am positive that it would go on to be something beautiful but if it does not then it's okay. I am happy that I got to spend some quality time with a beautiful woman. I believe life is all about making beautiful memories and I have made one today.

So be patient and keep trying.

Hey, so I stopped self isolating last week, and one of the first things I did was check in with this girl I was close with.

I asked her what she was doing, and when she was free. We met up on Wednesday, went to a museum, had lunch, arcade, dinner, then movie. It was fun, best day I've had in a while. We caught up, traded stories, told her new stuff I learned, she showed me all the stuff she was working on etc.

And, honestly she's not the only girl I can ask to hangout with me, and it having zero problems. One of my friends asked me to stay at her place recently cuz she wanted to watch anime. This weekend I'm supposed to meet another friend at a con for her hobby. Things like that. I can easily spend a whole day and know both me and the other person is having fun.

I don't understand how I can't transfer the skills and abilities I have here, to dating. Like, why can't I have experiences like this with girls I'm attracted to. Can anyone explain this?

The main pieces of advice anyone who feels like an incel always get are
-Work out/go outside
-Find new hobbies/pick up old ones
-Work on yourself
-ETC.

But my question is, what if my hobby is MTG or Warhammer or gaming or something along those lines. What then? Because there might be a local gaming store, but not all are as community driven as some of them. And what if the only gaming store is a few towns/cities over and I don't have a car?

What if all my hobbies are artsy and indoorsy? Should I force myself into hobbies I don't like or go clubbing/to bars on my own to meet new people? I have recently joined a discord server for warhammer in my country and I am trying to be active and maybe at some point meet up with someone for a match but, even then, it's only a 1 on 1 interaction, is that enough?

For some context: I am an introvert and while I do have a friend-group, I only actively meet them once a week and sometimes 1 or 2 times online on top of that if I'm lucky. I have been a bit of a shut-in lately and trying to get outside more to 'touch grass'. But still feel quite lonely and don't know how to tackle that as I don't have a car and can't get quite far.

Quick edit: This is an overall thing, I'm not necessarily looking for a way to find a girlfriend. But thanks to those that have included that part in the advice.

I'll share my story, I think most people are going to get upset with me but this is my story and it's the truth. I lost my virginity before most people. I have had more sex than I can remember, with more people than I can count. I was constantly in relationships up until about three years ago, I'm now almost in my mid 30s and women are detested by me. I since have posted my stories about my dates, and the texts I have with women where they say one word and I say things like "thanks for having a personality" and then in the comments, people tell me I am an incel.

Since moving to a new city, I have a new found hatred for the reasons why women don't like me, and men honestly. Still, when I say this online people call me an incel because I am upset that "I'm not 6ft tall, I have almost no hair, and am too open or emotional"

Women only like strong men that can slightly be edgy from my perspective, just enough confidence but then also treating them well after you treat them like crap. As someone who has had over dozens of girlfriends, it's hard for me to overcome this mentality, and maybe it's just misandry, but I'm here because repeatedly online I'm told I'm an incel, but I have never been told I am one in real life. In real life most people tell me I'm decent or nice, but beneath me is a ton of hatred, negativity, past relationships that were horrible that make me hate the idea of a new one, and I treat people pretty badly in general from this.

I am not sure how to stop, and more so I feel like how to overcome years of experiences that now "make me an incel"

And what I find even weirder, how can one like me who has had sex with probably over 40 people, (women mostly, besides when I was assaulted for my first sexual experience) now be an incel, just because he is upset that women prefer 6ft tall men, is that innately an incel thing to believe, can someone please explain these things to me

I’ve been doing this for as long as I can remember. I’ll see someone I’ve never interacted with and try to read thoughts and intentions into what they do. Most of the time, I walk away with the conclusion that they don’t like me (in a platonic sense). Unsurprisingly, Ive always had a hard time making friends and approaching people for solely platonic reasons is very difficult. I have very low self esteem for a variety of reasons and a perpetual need for external validation, which I get very little of. Maybe me making kneejerk judgments about other people is born out of this. I can recognize that relying on external validation is not good either, but I’m having equally as much difficulty trying to self-validate.

I know what I’m about to say might sound irrational/weird/dumb but it’s constantly been on my mind and idk how to break out of this thinking pattern so appreciate any input.

Basically, I went to the gym a few days ago and saw an attractive woman. I didn’t stare and made sure not to look at her and focused on my own workout. But I kept spotting her even when I’d move elsewhere around the gym so she was constantly on my mind. It’s happened a few times before at the gym, there’s always someone really attractive and it’s hard not to think about them.

But as I was working out, I noticed some guy talking to her, probably someone she knew. They were talking and laughing and he was giving her a hug touching her arms etc Idk why but my mood completely shifted and I just wanted to leave the gym.

Having briefly reflected in it, I think my reaction stems from feeling of inadequacy. It’s the feeling that no matter how much I try I will never be physically attractive enough or socially conditioned to interact with such a hot girl. It’s like seeing something you want but knowing you will never get it.

I think I’m more concerned about how I reacted. Like I don’t know why it bothered me so much, seeing someone else talking to a girl who I don’t even know myself. I think also I need to stop attributing success to getting a hot girl but ultimately that is my goal, that’s why I go to the gym in the first place. I know women are not objects for me to own and show off and deep down I know that ultimately even if I somehow had a relationship with the same girl, I’d still be dissatisfied with my appearance and other aspects of my life. Still I think it’s normal to have this masculine urge and desire to have a hot gf and u think it’s difficult to control these desires especially when a women is wearing tight clothing in the gym environment.

I guess my question is, is it weird I reacted this way? And how do I accept the fact that I will never be good enough for her?

So, I posted earlier that I met this girl via a dating app; we hit it off well via messages, so I asked her to meet, and she said yes.

Long story short: We met, and it was great. :]

I would like to lay out the most important points as follows:

1. I wasn't nervous. Sure, I was a bit nervous (we are all at least a bit nervous in social situations, right?) but nothing beyond the usual. No more nervous than I would be when going out w/ a close friend. Just my normal chill.

A part of this is due to my having gone on dates before. Well, one date :'] But also having gone w/ lots of ladies platonically, so I wasn't worked up and anxious as I used to be, bcz I've been thru it before. Lesson? Try a few times, use it to improve your social skills, and fail a couple of times before you succeed.

2. I wasn't desperate. Honestly? I had so much work the past two weeks or so, basically working day and night. I was coordinating this huge event for a client, and it ended this week; ever since, I just wanted to lay down and rest, but had to work still. And so, yesterday before the date, I was like, "Do I rly wanna go? Or should I just go home and rest and play games?"

This is HUGE for me. Even two yrs ago I was desperate unto death to have a date, or anything, with anyone. Just so I wouldn't be alone. I would have DIED for a date.

And now? I was wondering whether I wanna be on this date; whether I like this girl; whether I think we'd be a good fit. Not just whether she likes me and whether she thinks I'm attractive etc.

That is much more important than whether I end up single or not. I am happy. I don't need a partner; I'm not less w/o a partner. I'm finally at a place where I can be happy abt myself.

Besides that, she acted like a normal person during the date (not this narcissist, vain caricature of a woman which the manosphere crapfluencers would like us to believe in). We talked abt anything and everything. We also shared our poems.

As we were saying goodbye, I decided I would - kiss her hand. :'] So I did. After the date I worried whether it was too much, but - she loved it???????

And she told me she loved it, and now I'm like - "Oh. Is that the 2025 we're talking abt? Is that what we have to get used to? Girls liking me????????"

Anyway, we're seeing each other on a second date next week :]

I’m 23 and overall idk what’s wrong with me. I never make conversation with girls until they say something to me at work and it’s horrible because it’s never a bad thing for me to say hi or try to talk to them. Then when I do talk with one or two I just awkwardly don’t know what to say and I hate it. I know they’re just like us guys but for some reason it’s just hard for my brain to click? I feel like I care too much in finding a girlfriend that my mind automatically thinks I need to impress this person or say something that’ll make them like me? It’s like I hate being like this nd wish I wouldn’t gaf wether they do or don’t like me. I feel like I’m unapproachable to women due to my low self esteem and feel like it shows alot. I know I should be thinking of girls as potential friend instead of “potential girlfriend” or trying to get in their pants. I just know I hate being lonely and do crave connection I’ve made so many poor decisions this past year that showed me I want connection more than anything. I feel like I objectify women too especially because I think I object myself as well hence probs why I never have gotten to know a women at a deep level (you can only meet someone as deep as you’ve met yourself). Also because I’ve never made an effort to get to talk to girls, I would just masturbate/ get off to them by watching porn or sexualizing girls on twitter. As of recently Ive cut back on smoking and masturbating, started watching my diet more. But overall I wish I could just stop caring about things like a relationship because even if I want it Superbad in this instance it’s not going to happen anytime soon. I wanna get into therapy again I’m just having trouble adulting and am learning to be dependent on myself.

Hey everyone, I am a 26 year old guy with no dating experience despite my best efforts. And at this point, I have come to the fact that its not going to happen. But I don't know how to be ok with that.

I always read that you need to be happy alone and that its ok to never be in a relationship, but I am not ok with it, and as I get older and older I have unfortunately started to become jealous of all my friends who are married.

I also read that you need to build a life outside of a relationship and I believe that I have. I have a good career, interesting and fun hobbies that I love, a strong social life, and loving friends.

What do you do when that's not enough? How do you actually lose the desire for a relationship and be happy alone? How do you get rid of the loneliness?

Hello Exiters. I wanted to make a vent/advice post because something quite unexpected occurred this winter...I actually ended up dating two women and ultimately ended up breaking things off with both of them.

With either woman, we had gone on multiple dates, had phone calls, and both seemed interested in me and I thought they both had nice personalities, were attractive and generally just good people.

But I just wasn't... excited to be with them. I thought I'd feel happy to have a woman interested in me - and here I had two! Instead I kinda felt apathetic, when a text message came in from one of them I actually found it a nuisance - this made me feel bad. One of the girls would actually message me every day, and was clearly interested and I just was not matching that level of enthusiasm.

I ended up texting them and ending things with them. It did not feel right to continue to try and build a relationship if I wasn't thrilled or excited to be with them. It was hard and upsetting to do that, but hopefully it was the right thing - I do wonder if maybe I should have stuck out a little longer to see if my feelings changed, but I wasn't keen on dragging things on.

I'm actually a bit frustrated because now I've met and dated women who are interested in me, and who I found attractive and got along with but I personally just didn't feel anything romantic towards them - and I couldn't tell you why. There just was something missing that meant I couldn't imagine enjoying being in a relationship with them.

Now I'm dealing with these awful thoughts:

• That I don't know what to look for in a partner anymore and I can't even trust if what I'm looking for is the right thing.
• That someone can be nice, interesting, intelligent, attractive and interested and I just won't feel anything for them because there's something missing that I can't describe.

This happened a few weeks ago, and I haven't seriously attempted to get back into dating again. I opened Hinge and looked at a few profiles and just felt so detached, unenthused and uninterested from the whole process... I'm worried about finding someone who should be great for me but then I just end up feeling nothing and easting everyone's time.

I kinda want to chat about this, has anyone had this experience? What am I even looking for in a partner anymore? Did I do the right things?

I've tried my best, interacting with people, joining social groups and other stuff. But I don't seem to find a partner who is mutually attracted to me.

I no longer have a desire in my head to find someone. Atleast for now. I would rather carry on like a member of the groups I've joined and try and find peace at other things.

But sometimes I feel really lonely. I know this doesn't go away entirely. How shall I reduce the feeling of dying alone as a bad thing. Has anyone here been at peace with this? Or are there any other subs where I can join to accept this?

Tldr; I want to be self sufficient at most part for emotion regulation, with minimal outside needs.

For context, I'm a 19-year-old cisgender male of African descent in a Canadian (Ontario, to be specific) university.

I've always felt a deep yearning for human connection. I've spent considerable time fantasising about friendship, romance, and being emotionally and physically intimate with another person. Unfortunately, though, I'm painfully shy and find it extremely difficult to initiate social interactions – especially with women.

That is exactly what I'd like to focus on in this post. Over the past year or so, I've developed a number of habits, which some would describe as peculiar. For one, I don't speak to, and I try my hardest not to look at women I don't know. I also try to give them a ton physical space by doing things such as walking at the edge of pavements, crossing the street if possible, and standing about two metres behind them in queues. Many women see any man they come across as potentially harmful, which is completely understandable, of course. So, I do all of this to communicate to women that I'm not any sort of threat to their safety. The thing is, it's difficult to build any sort of connection with a woman whilst essentially avoiding them.

My physical appearance adds to the difficulty. Although I've been told otherwise by my family and close friends, I think have grotesque features, an off-putting manner, and it is quite difficult to tell if I'm a human being or not. If you'd like, you can take a look at my post on r/ugly, or I can send you a couple of selfies. I feel as though the habits I mentioned earlier are necessitated by the fact that I'm physically unattractive. What I mean by that is: while all men, handsome or ugly, are initially viewed as dangerous by most women, the ugly ones are viewed as more dangerous. Also, even if this were not the case, that is, women did not see any men at all threatening, I believe a great number of women would still react negatively if I tried to interact with them. I have heard that lots of people feel insulted when an ugly person displays any sort of interest in them.

Ultimately, what I would like to know is how do I signal to women that I'm safe without completely staying away from them? Also, is what I said about the role my physical appearance plays in all of this true? If so, how can I overcome this hurdle?

I'm a femcel in a literal sense, conventionally unattractive and mentally ill so finding love is hard.. what should I do? I have no friends

Hi guys, I am 23M , currently on college, I am stuck in a loop for some time. In middle school and highschool I always had male friends, but never female friends. My male friends always had girls talking to them, they flirted, had fun, but it never happened to me. I was always invited to all events, I wasn't some weird or shy kid back then, but I always thought about that I never had any romantic interaction with girls. I am not particularly ugly, let's say average, but I have some crooked teeth, nothing much, but enough to make me have low self-esteem and low confidence. I didn't really pay attention to it before college, when I started college I became really shy and didn't talk to people at all, only if they talk to me first, I always feel like they are looking at me and judging me, about my teeth, about my haircut, about like everything... And it didn't bother me until it started affecting my life. I am always overthinking most things, but there's always that I never had a girl liking me, like what is wrong with me, am I that ugly, am I not fun, is my personality boring or what. Now I have bad grades, I don't finish my obligations, I don't study enough, I don't go to classes, I just stay at home. I can't approach girls, but not to ask them for date, I literally can't approach to ask them question about class. I struggle with this problem for like 2.5-3 years and I want to get done with it. Any advice or comment, good or bad would be nice, Thank you for reading and have a nice day.

I know nobody is entitled to a relationship, but the older I get the more bitter I get about it. In high school I was always to nervous to talk to most girls. In college I met a confident friend who helped me become confidence myself. So I made extra effort to try to talk to as many girls as I could. I spent a lot of time in the gym, like I did in high school. But it doesn’t help. Any girl I had interest in would always reject me. They would either ghost me, tell me they see me as only a friend, or block me. I never had arguments with these girls because I knew that would be a dumb way to get blocked. But one of my friends told me that I’m ugly and it’s hard to get me set up. I’ve also had girls call me ugly to my face, and numerous guys who were assholes. I had a girl I was interested in call me inbred looking once. I go to the gym and stay in the best shape I can but it just feels hopeless when no girl gives you a chance. I’ve never even been on a date.

My friend was the typical good looking dude. He was 6’4, blue eyes and brown hair. Had girls that actually came up to him first to get his number. I’m 5’10 which I personally don’t think is short but I’ve heard girls say it is. My own sister called me short.

The closest I ever came to a date was when a girl and I agreed to meet up at a college town bar (we lived in separate states) But when I arrived to meet her, she was talking to another guy who she went on to date.

The only good thing that came out of me being super social was that I made a few close female friends and one of them is still one of my best friends today. Is it for that reason I’m able to keep incel thoughts at bay even though they creep on up in my head often

Basically the title. I've continued to go on first date after first date etc. (most of which I've never mentioned here) and I'm still single.

I've done every external thing one can imagine when it comes to dating (exercise, diet, going to events and stuff trying to be social) as well as therapy.

The issue with therapy when it comes to this problem was a matter of not knowing what to focus on. Like, I could talk all day about my feelings about a specific girl who ghosted me or whatever. Talk about my feelings related to childhood insecurities around relationships, about how I've internalized feelings of not being "good enough" for relationships, how black-and-white thinking sabotages possible connections, etc. But eventually I had to ask myself "What's the plan?!? What are the daily action steps I need to take in order fix the relationship portion of my life?"

And ultimately I think the biggest step I need to take is genuine acceptance of my singleness. Not that I'm giving up pursuing a relationship in the not so distant future, rather I'm giving myself a year long-ish (maybe more, maybe less) moratorium where I work to accept my situation as is and process the emotions as they come.

Now I'm still on dating apps and stuff and still going to social events, but I want to it from a place of genuine outcome independence which likely had a role in sabotaging the million and one dates I've been on. I also recognize the element of dehumanization this has because I end up only attracted to the "idea" of the relationship with the person rather than the person herself.

So instead of subconsciously trying to control outcomes, I want to cease my attachment to outcomes to the universe.

I've been trying in the way of mantras, saying things like "I have no control over my dating outcomes" (objectively true cause I haven't, lol) and "I accept the fact that I will be a 33 year old virgin" (I'm 31 now) but I want to do all that I can to foster genuine acceptance in order to fucking relax.

You guys have any tips on how to foster genuine acceptance while still not giving up? Insight is appreciated.

It’s been two months since I (24M) lost my virginity, and while that relationship unfortunately did not work out largely because of situational factors, it was a really good learning experience and we had some good times. It ended a few weeks ago, and I have been dealing with some issues that have seemingly been resurrected. I have had several moments where I felt like I was still a “virgin on the inside” and have had to remind myself that a woman enthusiastically had sex with me a few times and I’m no longer involuntarily celibate. I have also been experiencing the return of bad approach anxiety and for the most part haven’t been having luck on the apps, and while I did ask out and went on a date with a woman that I had been seeing at my board game group’s hangout spot, I wasn’t that interested in her to begin with and the date only further solidified that.

I have also had to consciously protect the gains that I made in being emotionally open and expressive - while I feel like the relationship was a major inflection point for being able to communicate and express myself in general, I feel like I’ve been going backwards and have felt a lot of the old resentment and loneliness coming back after feeling like I was on cloud nine for two months. When I went home for the holidays, people noticed that I seemed happier and more present. Since then though, I definitely feel like I’ve lost some of that progress and have felt more depressed - still much better than in years past, but a sharp decline from when I was dating that woman.

My point is, it is (or at least, can be) a huge step to have a relationship, but the work is never “done”. If you’ve had issues for years, they’re not going to disappear overnight just because your situation has changed.

Onwards and upwards.

I have been trying for a few months to get out of the Incel life, rethink my beliefs, make more friends etc, The important thing is that on the way I met a girl at my work, we started to live together and for the first time in years I had a friend, Everything was going well, wasn't it?, yeah, yesterday everything changed, she told another guy at our work in a mocking tone that I was a virgin and that being unable to relate to women depressed me, it was hard to hear and assimilate it, My feelings are strange now, I genuinely don't think she is a bad girl, and if I had a problem surely she would help me without thinking twice, but this broke my heart.

I'll keep fighting, but I'll be screwed for a while.

TLDR below

I am not an incel by modern definition, as I am not hateful towards women. But I am still dateless in my mid 20s and I would like to ask here because the common dating subs are filled with hateful incels and fuckboys acting like one.

For context, 1.5 years ago I asked a random woman on the campus about merch on her backpack due to sheer curiousity about this merch. We ended up talking, exchanging numbers and hang out on campus once. Texting stagnated to full stop until 1 week ago I decided to ask her if we could get into contact again and she agreed.

If possible I would like to get to know her romantically because I figured she is quite similiar to me and we have very similiar interests and circumstances.

So I would just like to ask her out for a romantic date. Or more directly, if she sees possibility in a relationship. Now, she is actually taking a gap year in April and probably needs to prepare for that as well. Which is why the context is important: I think she may not actually have enough time to meet me twice (once platonically where I can ask her out and once on a date).

So I thought no biggie, just ask her via text. But the thing is, I often saw this heavily disrecommended. At first I dismissed it, because it was said by men. But then I saw the same thing said by women again. Although they were generally not a lot of women answering this thread so I can't tell how common this opinion is.

I read that it comes off as very unconfident and cowardish to ask out per text, because you can "hide" behind the screen and don't need to show confidence in your tone and body language.

But I don't get it overall. At least in my case I believe I showed good self confidence when hanging out with her irl. More importantly, wouldn't text be better for women because they are not pressured to respond directly and they have time to think about it and write a response? I would honestly prefer a text message as a recipient for this exact reason.

Today I wanted to ask her via text because I was always wondering if she would be interested and to have a date in time guaranteed if she is interested. But after being reminded of these claim again, I instead just asked her out for a meet up and did not imply anything towards a date.

TLDR; Got into a contact again with a woman, but she will be away for a year starting in april. Want to ask per text instead of irl to more easily get a potential date in time and because I think it is actually nicer as a recipient. But internet says this makes you look very unconfident and socially akward.

15m. I was too focused on teenage love and it made no sense now, I'm going to focus on my grades and not focus on trying to seek a relationship that probably won't last long or be worthwhile

I'm a bi 20m who is currently not in college but I do work full time at my job. I do plan on going back. I have never been with someone before. Not even on a date or anything and it feels like shit.i kinda know it's not good to fixate on that aspect nor will it fix all of my issues but it still sucks. I don't really hate people in relationships at all. I also have no problem with women. I also know a good chunk of why I am single is my fault. I really don't have any interest or hobbies. I mean sure I go to work but then I kinda just stay home after. I have however been going to gaming tournaments on my time off to get out the house and at least do something. Don't get me wrong the tournaments are fun and all but it's not really filling any void in my life. I have been trying to find hobbies ever since I graduated from high school but I can't really seem to find anything I like either. I kinda just wanted to post here to see if maybe anyone would say anything that would help my situation at all. I am also down to answer any questions too.

How can you take part in social activities when you don’t like being sociable?
I know that to meet someone, the best approach is to participate in activities and let things happen naturally.
The problem is that, for me, socializing doesn’t feel natural at all.

I’m an introvert. And when I say that, it’s not just that I’m shy. It’s that seeing people genuinely exhausts me, and it’s not their fault.

When I get off work, I’d rather spend time playing video games or doing other activities that don’t encourage meeting new people.

My numbers are simply based on the fact that dating apps are 75% men and 25% women.

If every woman who downloaded a dating app found someone, then it means that there are 67% of men leftover from the apps who are shit out of luck.

I understand world population statistics are 98 men to every 100 women. I just am extremely concerned that dating apps are fool’s gold for men. Can anyone explain why the split on dating apps is overwhelming? Is it expected for women to never need to download a dating app to find what they’re looking for?

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EDIT: This post was a mistake because I don’t handle fiery language or conflict well. I meant no ill intent, but I understand this is the internet and no one here has any understanding of who I am in real life.

Below is data from Google AI about what the male to female user base breakdown is since I was told my 75/25 generalization was “laughably false.” I agree more than Tinder should be considered. I’m happy to correct myself and say that 67% of dating app users are men and 33% dating app users are women.

Male to female user base dating apps:

Tinder — 75/25

Bumble — 67/33

Hinge — 64/36

OK Cupid -- “2 to 1” or 66.66/33.33

POF — 67.11/32.89

Coffee Meets Bagel — 59.96/40.04

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EDIT 2: I’ve made many comments in this post opening up about my mental state. A lot are unrelated to the original post content, and I’ve walked back the slant that the original post uses. So before further comments about the content of the original post, I hope that you consider reading some of the additional context before making a final judgement on me as a person