Can I read this first? It says the first book happened 274 years prior, so do I need to read Hyperion first or am I chillin?

I just finished Endymion and I'm sorry to say I was disappointed.

I haven't started The Rise of Endymion so please no spoilers in the replies for that book.

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I absolutely loved Hyperion and The Fall of Hyperion but Endymion was a big step back in terms of quality. The main problem with it is that the focus isn't on interpersonal struggles or politics like the first two books. Instead we get a constant stream of consciousness from our narrators that leaves out no detail, however insignificant. So much of the book is just characters doing something that isn't relevant to the actual plot at all and it takes so many pages for the characters to do anything because Raul includes every little detail. Every scene is like this. Some sequences are a total waste of time. Entire chapters could have been cut. At one point Neme (the shrike like machine created by the technocore) kills the priest and the Chitchatuk on the ice planet after Raul and gang have left then the next chapter is Raul and gang leaving the ice planet. They skate around then leave for like 25 pages, it's soooo boring. Father De Soya gets put on trial twice for the same crime and both times the dynamic is exactly the same. He thinks he is going to be removed from the mission, he's ashamed of himself for his failure, and then he is exonerated and starts his mission again. It's basically the exact same scene and it absolutely could have been a paragraph instead of 20 pages. When the story did get into metaethical discussions or interpersonal discussions (like talking to the priest on the ice planet or Aenea saying she is being tested) we see glimpses of the great writing in the previous books but these parts of the book are comparatively short.

Raul was definitely a big part of why I was disappointed. It feels like Martin gave him the opportunity to be a hero and since Raul wants to be a hero he took it and that's all the character development we got out of him. He's just a hero that loves Aenea; he lives to sacrifice for Aenea. There's no discussion about what he wants beyond being a hero for some child he just met. And the dynamic is pretty cringe if you think about it. Raul falls in love with Aenea in a parenting type of way, but then in like 8 years he's banging her and romantically in love with her? There are also so many lines that are so horrible because they shine a light on this weird dynamic. When Aenea first meets Raul she says something like "some day you'll join me in the shower but tonight I better take one alone"... she's only 11 years old.

On some level this isn't that big a deal. I can imagine a relationship like this having two distinct parts, the parental one and years later the romantic one. I can imagine a relationship like this in which Aenea isn't groomed, especially if Aenea is the messiah. Raul and Aenea's scenes together are honestly quite charming, but still, little girls falling in love and banging their parental figures is weird and I don't like it.

Despite my grievances I still overall enjoyed the book and some parts of it were genuinely really good. I loved De Soya and A. Bettik. The book explores the dynamic of the Church through De Soya perfectly. The cruciform leads everyone everyone to faith and a life without death but you have to sell your soul and be totally subservient to the church. De Soya's belief in the Church is so powerful that he faces death constantly but in the end it was his faith that gave him resolve, not his loyalty to the institution of the Church. A. Bettik and Raul's dynamic is the one Raul dynamic I actually like. Raul tries to be anti racist but still otherizes A. Bettik to some extent. Slowly throughout the book we learn about A. Bettik and we see his sacrifices. By the end it doesn't feel like A. Bettik is an "other" at all, he's just a human.

The last thing I'll say is that I know that Raul's journey is mimicking the path to enlightenment laid out in John Keat's poems. On Hyperion he learns to love and appreciate nature, on this journey he learns to love his friends, and in the next book he'll learn to love romantically and through that love he'll be enlightened. It's nice but I don't think it was executed that well. Raul is just too one dimensional and boring for this mimic to really be compelling.

The final action scene was very well done

Would love to hear what other people think.

https://open.spotify.com/track/7sjuNUjWtSqhbxJ3RAUffm?si=BKe4OF2ARCqwy0W5vNjghw&pi=u-f7mU-axGR4uw

I know that the film rights belong to Bradley Cooper 😔… but who do you think should play the pilgrims?

For my picks…

The priest:? The soldier: Dev Pattel The detective:? The consul:? The Templar:? The poet: Danny Devito The scholar:?

I’m about a third through and really having trouble sticking with it. I really want to finish it as I love so much about it, but parts of it just take me out so much.

I just want a simple yes or no answer to this question:

Does Dan Simmons really end up making the fate of the universe depend on a 30-something having sex with a 16-year old blonde girl?

Re reading and contemplating how difficult a live action adaptation would be. The scale is so large and the action so bombastic, All the flashbacks and internal monologues and intense descriptions of people's reactions to things. Just consider the briefing scene in chapter 15 of the fall of Hyperion, when all the generals turn to stare at general Lee, I can picture that scene so clearly in an anime style. What do you think

I am reading Rise of Endymion. Please do not answer, just tell me if the answer is not yet read by me. I do not rember two things. Therefore my questions.

1. !Why did Lenart Hoyt decided to collaborate with TechnoCore?!<

2. !Why Raul is now inprisoned in the orbiting cell? !<

Netflix has a well deserved reputation for big budgets, and crappy writing, dumbed down shows and making stupid changes to pander to modern agendas.

Look what they've done to Three Body Problem. I shudder to think how badly they'd butcher Hyperion. Anything intelligent is anathema to Netflix.

also I think it goes without saying that this could never be a movie. actually I think Netflix might try to make a movie based on the books by their darling Zach Snyder because he apparently thinks Rebel Moon was great :horror:

**SPOILERS**

(EDIT as I can't do a retrospective flair sorry)

Do you think Sol ever connected that Kassad's story was mainly about raw dogging his daughter, currently asleep in front of him (in her future/his past) in the future?

I'm just hoping he never clicked...

The Rise of Endymion Chapter Summary Part 1 (1-14)

The Rise of Endymion Chapter Summary Part 2 (15-21)

The Rise of Endymion Chapter Summary Part 3 (22-35)

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PREVIOUS SUMMARIES

The Fall of Hyperion Chapter Summary

Endymion Chapter Summary

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It is done!

Like title says. I'm looking to buy the Trade Paperback versions (new) of Hyperion and The Fall of Hyperion. I'm in the Netherlands and it seems all I can find is the Mass Market Paperbacks. From what i've read the quality of these is a bit lower.

Anyone know a place where I can buy these?

I'm just blown away, I have that excellent heavy hearted and satisfied feeling when u finish a good book. I barely even know what to say but I can already see myself rereading. This is battling with The Three Body Problem trilogy and Asimov's Foundation for my top spot in Sci fi and books in general. Wow am I glad to have found this. Wow am I just stunned, AMA ig? I just want to discuss these books so badly and get on to the Endymion books next.

Hey guys, I’m rereading the series for the bagilionth time, and I always feel like I have to just stick it out with Hoyt’s (Dure’s) tale. I don’t hate the priest’s tale, it just feels like it drags on for so long. The mystery of what is happening with the Bikura is good but sometimes I feel like it should’ve wrapped up quicker.

I have a hard time choosing between Lamia’s or Weintraub’s as my favorite. Lamia’s tale reveals so much lore, and introduces Johnny. Her tale is also fun because of the chase between all the worlds and the heist for Johnny’s personality. Weintraub’s story makes me tear up every time. It has so much raw emotion. When Sarai dies you can feel Sol’s heartbreak when Rachel asks where mom is. I think I’d have to choose Weintraub’s as my favorite with Lamia’s as an extremely close second. How about you guys?

Can anyone sway me to like Hoyt’s more lol?

Just finishing rewatching Dune part 2 while watching Hyperion series, and I feel like Villeneuve's slow-paced narrative, his directorial style of blending soft sci-fi and literary, and the unique aesthetic presented in the film is the perfect fit for Hyperion series. I'd kill my self if he directed Hyperion, and I really hope someone mentions Hyperion in a conversation with him! Idk if he know/read the book

Though I know it seems like a Hyperion TV series is already announced, it's just a fantasy of mine

After starting and stopping on the first page for a month I finished the 4 books in a span of 4 weeks. My life has been in a void since the untimely cancellation of the show “Raised By wolves”. Thank you all for the recommendation. This series is amazing.

I cannot thank y’all enough.

While the first two books are the best books I will ever read, I thoroughly enjoyed reading the final 2 books. I almost wish I slowed down to enjoy it more. I look forward to returning to this whole series when I’m senile and re-enjoying it.

And now I’m buying his Ilium and Olympos…

I'm just OCD about having copies that match eachother. There's an updated copy of the first book but I can only find a dated cover of the second. They're two parts of the same story.

https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1bf5vnp/til_david_nutt_invented_alcosynth_a_synthetic/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Felt kinda stupid but now I feel like it's kinda fitting knowing everything that's gonna happen before it does.

Thought my Hyperion people would want to share this deal with friends and family. Looks like it’s half price.

https://www.amazon.com/Hyperion-Cantos-Book-1-ebook/dp/B004G60EHS

I am doing a re-read of the fall of Hyperion and loving it once again. My favorite part of the books is the conception of AI and the dialogue between the Cybrid and Ummon. I can't help but notice clear parallels between how the AI uses human neurons in Hyperion Cantos and how the AI used humans for energy and computation (?) in the Matrix trilogy. I can't remember if the computation bit is considered canon in the Matrix. But pretty sure read it somewhere on the forums. Simmons even uses the word Matrix numerous times in Fall.

Was this idea of AI enslaving humans for computation without them knowing just in the air around this time in print SF? Are there other books from the pre-90s period that explores this more?

I have seen several Matrix precursor movies to try to understand how the idea for the movie might have come about. Just wondering if such precursor books exists in written media as well before the Hyperion Cantos was published.

Tangentially the Matrix trilogy could be imagined as a nested story within Hyperion/Fall possibly Neo as being another pilgrim or a John Keats like Cybrid that discovers the true intention and the politics behind how the AI operates in this universe.

I wanted to show you the cover and tell you that I read 200 pages in 2 days.

It had been a long, long time since I picked up a book that was so impossible to stop reading.

I found a gem.

And I'm someone who unironically enjoyed reading endymion. I found it intriguing and picked up RoE immediately but gosh this book and overly detailed (and long) for no reason. I think I stopped after the overly detailed stuff came in after raul reached aenya's planet. I tried for weeks but eventually dropped it and picked up children of dune which I kept aside for much later.

Does it get any better? I do want to pick up again but I want to know if I really should.

Haven't read the Endymion books yet, very excited!

Does anyone know where I could buy this edition?