They are no where near comparable to each other. Quite frankly, comparing the two is insulting to rape victims.

Several industries have higher rates of suicide compared to the national average. Some studies show Dr's have the #1 higher rates of suicide.

Many things factor into higher suicide rates, long work hours, hard grueling work like construction workers, being exposed to emotional things like patients dying, making the wrong medical choices, some people with more severe mental health issues may be drawn to a field like Arts and Entertainment, Being exposed to violent imagery like working in a large abattoir, working low paying and low skill jobs as you age can be very difficult especially for men.

So its easy to conclude that the issue is with working conditional and socio-economic status among other things.

The claim that abattoir's have a higher suicide rate as a justification that AG is wrong is just another of a long list of vegan cherry picking to fit their narrative.

The thing that we should really be concerned about is why is there a higher suicide rate among men and aging men and what can be done to reduce this.

Abattoirs would be included in point 5 below.

1. Mining, Quarrying, and Oil and Gas Extraction. Suicide rate for males: around 72 per 100,000 (2021 data).
2. Construction. Suicide rate for males: approximately 56 per 100,000; for females: about 10.4 per 100,000 (2021 data).
3. Other Services (e.g., Automotive Repair, Personal Care Services). Suicide rate for males: 50.6 per 100,000; for females: 10.4 per 100,000 (2021 data).
4. Arts, Entertainment, and Recreation. Suicide rate for males: 47.9 per 100,000; for females: 15.0 per 100,000 (2021 data).
5. Agriculture, Forestry, Fishing, and Hunting. Suicide rate for males: 47.9 per 100,000 (2021 data).
6. Transportation and Warehousing. Suicide rate for males: around 29.8 per 100,000; for females: approximately 10.1 per 100,000 (2016 data).
7. Installation, Maintenance, and Repair. Suicide rate for males: 36.9 per 100,000 (2016 data).

There are several different studies and sources but this is a good starting point.
Suicide Rates by Industry and Occupation — National Vital Statistics System, United States, 2021 - PMC

I recently came across an account which states that they had to go to an "industrial scale slaughterhouse" to break their bias-the distance of themselves from how animals arrive at their plate. They mention "the horrifying sounds of animals crying out, the overwhelming stench of blood and entrails in the air, witnessing animals being forced into gas chambers then having their throats slit." as the visceral experience which led to them abandoning animal products, saying: "In that moment, I realized none of it was necessary - humans can lead happy and healthy lives without animal products."

I disagree that its universally possible to live healthily without animal products, as has been shown by many ex-vegans and the many vegan influencers and celebrities who've been found to be cheating and are showing signs of malnutrition, but I do agree that the distance people have to how their food is made is a real issue that needs to be addressed. And the meat industry is addressing it.

Some slaughter plants offer guided tours to visitors where they can see the process in its entirety, from the moment animals are brought inside to being carved and packaged as pieces of meat. Some examples are Temple Grandin's Glass Walls project and Danish Crown Slaughterhouse: Danish Crown Slaughterhouse, Denmark

I would like to read about your experience of being in a slaughterhouse and seeing the process-including slaughter-personally. Was it as visceral an experience as the account I mentioned?

I want to ask if anyone wants to create a discord for this sub. Personally not me because I don't have any experience with moderating.

There are some vegans out there who believe and argue that human beings are naturally herbivores and not omnivores. But when i hear that, i respond with, "if we are herbivores, then why arnt non vegan and non vegetarian people getting diseases as a result?. I mean thats how mad cow disease started, where a pandemic of it happend in the UK during the 90s". And they respond with "oh but they do, they get things like cancers ect".

That right there is a begging the question fallacy, cause their argument stems from a totally unproven narrative. Plus vegans and vegetarians have suffered from cancers before.

Not only are skateboards made of a hard plastic, I don’t think any animal products go into them BECAUSE THEY ARE MADE OF PLASTIC I have no words! Legit unless someone is making a leather skateboard which would be useless as that wouldn’t be strong enough to support the weight of a full grown human, because unlike shoes your standing on the full thing basically applying all your weight

I think the thing I find frustrating with Vegan Activists, is their misunderstanding, deliberate or otherwise, of what people mean when they say that morality is subjective

Often, they take it to mean that there's no such thing as moral or immoral, or that it means that following laws that prohibit things like murder or robbery should be optional

Which isn't what is meant by that saying at all

Personally, I don't fully blame the Vegan Activists for that misunderstanding. That saying is poorly worded, I'll admit

But, I definitely think the way they misrepresent morality also plays into it

More often than not, they frame it as a black & white binary, something that is either all good or all bad. Which isn't how real morality actually works

Real morality is much more fluid & nuanced than that, & heavily depends on context

More often than not, it's various shades of grey

Which is why critics emphasise that killing an animal for food is very different from a premeditated killing of a human being in cold blood

Both are dark shades of grey, but one shade is far darker than the other

But Vegan Activists typically refuse to see such nuance, which I won't lie, I find incredibly off putting

I get why they don't, to an extent, if people were to point out that morality isn't a strict binary, much of their agenda falls flat

But it's important to emphasise that morality isn't black & white, & that being human (ie, we still rely on animals to live, whether thats animal testing still being necessary for medical research, livestock farming, assistance dogs for the disabled, hunting, herding, fishing, particularly for indigenous people) isn't a moral failing

They get more cultish all the time.

A few years ago, I moved to a new place.

Most of my new neighbors seemed nice, with a couple of exceptions. One of these exceptions was a woman in her 30s (I guess?) who dressed as a sort of hybrid Pokemon cosplayer/ slavic folklore character. I never saw her or her grim-looking husband without at least one of their two barky dogs.

Initially, this neighbor appeared cheerful and friendly, but it soon became apparent that something about her was off.

She would bang at my door at 2 a.m. for very minor things that she thought had happened around my property, or because she needed to ask something. She once showed up at my doorstep with her husband between midnight and 1 a.m. and got offended because I wouldn't open the door but just talk to her through the spyhole, though her words made no sense.

I became increasingly creeped out by her as she seemed to be following my every step with her Spongebob eyes and spying on me every time I got in and out of the house. For example, if I was out of town for a few days, she would lurk next to the entrance gate and welcome me with: "It's been so long! I thought you had moved out" or something along those lines, often multiple times a day, in an obsessive, almost aggressive manner.

Most of her discourses made no sense, she always seemed anxious and was convinced something/someone persecuted her and her dogs, who were quite neurotic and to whom she spoke in the presence of other people as if they were humans. For instance, the dogs would jump at any neighbor carrying bags of groceries with them, and she would talk at length with her creatures, humanizing them while ignoring the damage they were causing.

I started avoiding her big time. At this point, I was convinced she was crazy.

As time passed, she became increasingly weirder. She would wear heavy coats and wool hats on hot summer days, looking more and more emaciated. The entrance to her house started looking gross, too, as if they were hoarding stuff, as the area surrounding the doorstep became cluttered with broken appliances and dusty cardboard boxes. Her husband was off, too.

There came a time when I didn't speak to her for over a year, as I saw less and less of her and was in no rush to say hello.

However, when I saw her again she looked terrible, and most of her teeth were missing, despite being in her late 30s/early 40s (supposedly). I also discovered that she was wearing hats or hoods all the time to hide bald patches on her head. I had a ahah moment and started t believe that her craziness was due to being a drug addict, as her appearance seemed to match the description.

Well, turns out I was wrong: another neighbor (whom I'll call R), told me she and her husband are staunch vegans who proselytize, and tried to "convert" R when he complained about a health issue, claiming the diet would turn him healthy just "like themselves".

Those two literally starve themselves and drown in hoarded filth while worshiping their dogs and feeling persecuted by the whole world.

*ETA*

I have replied to some of your comments, but reddit doesn't seem to make them visible for some reason, so I'll add some details here.

As for the dogs' appearance: they have brown, long-ish fur and look better than their owners overall. They look like they've aged as of late, and tough unaware of their actual ages, I would guess they must be 8-9 years old in the very least, as they already looked like adult dogs when I first saw them 6+ years ago. One of them walks more slowly, the other probably has incipient cataracts, they don't bark as much as of late. The obsession with grocery bags persists, though. What I should've said is that my neighbors believe they worship their dogs, because I'm not sure the canines would agree. They don't seem to be mistreating them, anyways. Also, they don't bring them along on their 1 a.m. escapades.

My neighbors aren't exactly glamorous, but they do have a dog-sitter who looks after their pets when they are not home. The dog-sitter herself would actually be an interesting addition to my original post, but I didn't expand on her for brevity's sake. She appeared to have moved in with the husband and her own dog (whom the wife used to dog-sit herself) when the wife was spending the summer away at her family's.

The wife (who - if I'm not mistaken - has never held a job for too long ) tried to turn their house into a boarding doghouse for a while, early on. Her business never took off though, as she always seemed to have the same couple of dogs over, one of which was her current dog-sitter's.

As for the welfare check: as far as I know, the wife's family got involved about a year ago. While she was away last summer at her relatives' house, the husband stayed home, so did their purported dog-sitter. At one point, it seemed like the dogsitter lived in that house the whole time. She also wears winter hats and coats year-round, though her style is quite different from the wife's. There's still rubbish outside the house, but it now seems to be mostly confined within the frame of a baby gate, which they used not to let the dogs escape from their open entrance door.

I seriously don't understand how vegans can shamelessly shoot themselves in the foot, constantly and then wonder why people find them obnoxious. Like I know that there are some bad apples in non-vegan group of people but never I've seen this much of sabotaging themselves when promoting veganism. Almost makes me pity them if they weren't so entertaining to watch. One thing that really confuses me, when they mention just carnivore diet, or all read meat diet (whatever they label it) and then go all smug how unhealthy it is.. Of course it will be unhealthy, you can't just eat meat for the rest of your life. Same goes as eating just veggies, it's not healthy either. That's why we usually balance the two, and then manage to be on a path of a healthy life. So I don't understand their point they are trying to get across when they mention just all meat diets, obviously it won't be healthy, obviously it will mess with your health even child can understand that.

And then they tried to claim “you’ll never need eggs again.” No thanks, I’ll stick with the eggs I get right from my backyard instead of whatever gross half raw egg looking goop this is.