"Babycakes" is a story written by Neil Gaiman for PETA, with the premise that in a distant future, all animals have gone extinct and humanity decide to use babies in their place, using them for food, leather and testing cosmetic products with the justification that just like animals, "babies cant talk or reason".

The story is meant to make you question humans using animals through shock value by using cannibalism of babies, something I find rather cheap.

Whats your opinion on the story and the message it tries to convey?

Vegan Ashkenazi couple came to rabbi i know and asked him what to do in passover. Few years ago.

Ashkenazi jews don't eat most of seeds-based food in passover because of suspecting of khametz mixing (products of wheat, malt etc., excluding matzos)

He told them:"i investigated it in torah and talmud, and i concluded that you are permitted to eat meat in passover"😂😂😂

He wrote this in his Facebook and i laughed...

My mind is tainted with PETA propaganda, and I’ve recently noticed that my mind just automatically sees those peta pictures when I hear slaughter. While I know factory farms really are pretty inhumane, When I try mean I will likely only buy from local vendors who raise and slaughter their own animals. Where can I learn about humane slaughter methods, how they work and how much pain the animal actually feels? I’ve only heard small bits of info waking me up to the fact the peta propaganda (shockingly) isn’t correct, but nothing more than that.

This doesn’t seem factual.

Throwaway account because I'm genuinely scared they might find it. I'm going to have to sacrifice a lot of details so it won't happen but I really need to vent right now.

This friend, let's call them H, is anti-speciest and vegan. We share similar political ideologies (this will be relevant later) and get along pretty well. Even though they often talk about how meat eaters should always be ashamed of themselves they never said anything directly to me (I eat meat) but always about others in front of me. They call dishes containing meat "corpses", say that whoever eats meat is a murderer and that milk and dairy are byproducts of rape.

I was never particulary involved in this discourse and I have barely scraped the surface of it, only got to hear about the moral aspect of it, which intrigues me. I think feeling so much empathy towards non-human animals and rejecting the way their bodies are commercialized is something I'd like to look into. However: I'm now starting to inform myself better and for now I think that veganism isn't sustainable unless it's in a urban area in the west, supported by underpaid workers... which is what my friend and I are supposedely against. The pinned post of this sub is really helpful, by the way.

I always said when talking to meat-eating friends that I had the slight suspicion that H was trying to shame me into veganism by using the political topics we agree on and because that was what had happened to them: they didn't become vegan after careful reading and pondering but because a person that had made a good impression on them straight up told them they were disgusting for being a meat-eater. This person (T) has even more extreme takes than H. T is basically a vegan separatist, doesn't date anyone who isn't vegan.

I think H's experience with veganism is just another manifestation of their shame towards their status quo. H was (or maybe still is) deep into identitarian politics and ashamed of their right-wing past. They continuously punish themselves in various ways, while simultaneously justifying every actual bad deed they end up doing. I feel like H is constantly striving to be a perfect (pure) version of themselves and kicking themselves whenever they fall short of being so, like it's expected. I say this because some of the people of the vegan circle around them that I got to meet or already knew seem to share this same philosophy. Like T, they think of you as impure when you ingest meat. They think we were born pure and animal loving, until society got in the way and taught us to like meat. I think there is a big discrepency between them and the rest of the world. I also think that their morals were self taught and they shouldn't expect, even if those morals were right, for people to uncritically accept them as their own.

I would always say, to my non-vegan friends, that trying to shame me into doing something doesn't work (I was trying to make a show of how strong willed I am... yeah, sure) and just ignored it. Then I passed up on a job oppurtinity I really wanted because it wasn't vegan enough and I was in that headspace where I was thinking "Veganism sounds interesting... I'll do some reading later" but was REALLY afraid of actually being a bad person if I had taken the job. It's kinda funny because when I explained all this to H I also had to explain why that specific job wasn't vegan.

So, the last time I spoke to H I was actually mentioning the fact that I was thinking of stopping my meat consumption. A part of me I should investigate was also wanting to please them. I never had a conversation with H which didn't involve them heavily insulting meat eaters.

This time H freaked me out. They were pleased. Then went on a whole other tangent (which, truthfully, wasn't so different from all our past conversations) where they basically told me that they think that cis men eating meat are equivalent to rapists, that these men see women the same way they see meat. H told me that they actively imagine cis men they see at the grocery store buying meat in intimate situations with women and that it makes H almost gag. I thought it was so weird. I politely told them they were "burdening" themselves with stuff that doesn't personally involve them and that even if those random men they see around ARE mysogynistic creeps well... they have no way of knowing that! But H still said it like it's a fact. And other things in the same vein that were even worse.

It wasn't the first time they linked aggressive behavior to meat eating but this actually disgusted me.

When I say I'm a moral relativist I actually mean it and I don't say it just because I want to sound edgy or openminded. I'm not, I'm trying to get there though. And I can see what kind of moral system H and their friends have created and where it clashes with mine. I can also see there's really not much I can do about it, because anything I'll say will just put me on their shit list and any of my bad actions will be proof of how impure meat makes people bad.

Ugh.

I'm not asking on advice on how to manage the situation, I have felt my self confidence grow in the last few weeks and don't think I'll be shamed into anything else from now on. But I like to lurk on this sub and wanted to hear your thoughts on this or if you had a similar experience.

I still love my friend.

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So I've been thinking about this for a while. I know a lot of vegans have cats. But don't cats get sick and die if they feed them a vegan diet? How do vegans justify giving their cats tuna and shit?

Don’t get me wrong, I actually enjoy many soy-products. Growing up in Asia we have all sorts of soy products that bear no resemblance to meat but are very nutritious and tasty. They are part and parcel of our omnivore diet.

However, the rise of fake meat in recent years has baffled me. Like who will be fooled by it? Not only do they taste awful compared to real meat, the addition of preservatives/artificial flavors makes them unhealthy compared to traditional soy products. Do vegans really think that if something looks like meat, then it can quell the natural desire for animal nutritions? It all looks like a scam to me, except that the scammer is trying to scam themselves😅

It’s just a few people! Heck you can be vegan and not intelligent!!! It angers me due to the fact that see non vegans as idiots. They are clearly just looking for a reaction

This opens up so many holes in vegan logic it's incredible

I don't understand why it's "wrong" to view humans as superior to other animal species / life forms. We objectively are at the top of the food chain, have conquered the earth, etc...

All the other "isms" are wrong because they are based in objective falsehoods.

For example... Racism: all people should be treated equal regardless of race, because we are all people, and are objectively & measurably equivalent in terms of capability to contribute to society/community

Sexism: all sexes should be paid the same & given the same legal rights because we are all people, and are objectively & measurably equivalent.

If any two people are capable of doing the same job at the same level, they should be paid the same & both able to be hired, regardless of race/sex/religion/etc...

Speciesism is not objectively wrong. A chicken is not the same as a human. Neither is a dog. Or an ant. Or an elephant. Or a cow. Animals are treated differently because they are objectively & measurably different.

So why do vegans think it's an insult to call somebody "speciesist"? Like yes, I am speciesist. I took biology and know that species are all very different, and what they require for happiness & prosperity in life are very different than what humans require.

CANT FUCKING BELIEVE THIS HYPOCRITICAL VILE BEHAVIOUR!!!!!!

Something just doesn't seem right to me. A lot of creatine from my understanding comes from Red meat. So, strangely, It's ethically okay for a lot of these "Vegan" bodybuilders to take synthetic creatine, possible synthetic nutrients (B12, Iron, Calcium, etc etc Vitamins) and are making HUGE gains?

I just tried to go Vegan for a month and I was losing muscle mass QUICKLY. None of this is making sense and I'm wondering how many vegan "Bodybuilders" out there are legit, and aren't scamming.
Then you have this "Fruitarian" guy on YouTube who jacked to the gills. None of this is making sense, and I don't believe any of it.

Make it make sense, because it's been quite the opposite for my athletic performance and muscularity by removing meat.

I could NEVER imagine a world without pets. Pets are what have kept me from taking my own life away from mental health crises. Vegans (aka animal rights extremists) think that having pets is "slavery" or "bondage" (which sounds really stupid). There is NO way in hell they can try to take my pets away, or anyone else's pets. Hell no. They want to ban having pets and replace pets with robots (which aren't the same as ACTUAL pets). Nothing else compares to the joys of a real pet. The animal rights extremists want to take that all away. Very sad.

^(I remember seeing a post on tumblr years ago where the OP states that dairy farmers aren't workers but capitalists since they profit from others labor-namely their cows. I follow animal welfare blogs that get into arguments with vegans occasionally, which is how I found it. In the thread someone else stated that the statement is "undeniably true" because "cattle are living things", to which one of the animal welfare blogs replied "but so are carrots". :))