I recently got into the Wheel of Time series. S1 left me wondering with the bad writing at times. We hear how the male part of the one power is much stronger than the female, yet Logain sees Nynaeve and says "like a raging sun". No matter how strong she was, if she was comparable, or even stronger than someone strong enough to claim to be the dragon reborn, then what was the reason for the dragon reborn in the first place? And in the show she was shown as much stronger than Logain which creates the question of why couldn't Nynaeve go and defeat the Dark One then herself or be trained to do so?

Perrin liking Egwene happened out of nowhere and whole arguing between them in Fal Dara was very badly written, cringe and awkward. Rand going to the Eye of the world alone didn't make any sense from a writing standpoint. The women fighting the Trolloc army together also didn't make any sense. Mat leaving them before they enter the ways made no sense as well. I feel as if the show is meant to be understood only from those who have written the book and recognize it as a parody, because I fail to see how Mat, Perrin and Rand are even friends outside of episode 1. It felt like the show assumed everyone knows how strong the bond between the guys were and how strong Rand became, that it tried to do its own adaptation. The general feeling from the start was the connection between them, the world politics and the promised hero. I can't say about the world politics but in regards to the other 2, I was expecting something more of a Lord of the Rings style in terms of the friendship while traveling along with something more of a Neo awakening for Rand. It seems to me like the creators just did what they wanted to do because this is how it works with TV adaptations.

I haven't read the book so I don't know what was supposed to happen, I did see an article though when deciding to continue with season 2. I wanted to check if it improves, and the article said it sticks closer to the source material. But having finished S2 it makes even less of sense than S1. Moraine getting cut off the source, Rand stabbed by Mat, Egwene jealous of Nynaeve, Lan and Moraine falling off, Lan being suspected as a darkfriend, Ishamael being an advisor of that queen, offering the horn of valere as a gift, all of these felt like very badly fabricated reasoning to unite the characters again.

But the article said it was very close to the source material and even found a reddit thread saying the same, without knowing what happened in the books, this makes no sense to me at all, did they connect this in a bad way or did all these just NEVER happened?

!Edit: When I'm saying that it didn't make sense, let me make one example out of countless I could pick: Moraine for no reason decides to go outside, she gets attacked by a Fade, Lan appears and saves her from the first, then 2 more appear. Afterwards she decides to leave without Lan, you were just attacked by 3 fades, what makes you think you won't get attacked again? You can't channel anymore, how will you defend yourself? Additionally she sends Rand where Logain is kept, which literally came out of nowhere as this wasn't what was said in S1. So Moraine appears and starts asking questions about Rand, then checks on Logaine and tells him he will teach Rand. First of all how did you know he hasn't been teaching Rand, you left him there for iirc around 6 months, how do you know Logaine hasn't been teaching him all this time? This would only make sense if an informant notified her of Logaine's and Rand's discussions. But she didn't have any, yet you are of the Blue Ajah, you are supposed to be a spy, where is your information network? And if you didn't have any, you sent Rand to your hometown, and didn't decide to install an information network first? Wouldn't it be wise to repair your relationship with your family first since they are top tier in that city IF you didn't have any eyes there? Also why did you go around asking for Rand? He should have been working, why didn't you go and check there first to see whether he was working or not? If you were spying outside the building's door and Rand never came, then at least you have a reason to start asking around. Let alone that you spend coin as if it's nothing, very hard to believe you couldn't even put eyes on Rand, or at least come and keep tabs on him yourself. Staying in that house for all those months provided what? And this is just one of the examples for one character. Every single character is much of the same, the writing seems to be abysmal.!<

Couple of other questions, which version is better? And do the physical books have art that would suck to miss out on? Is there a way to view it online as I listen?

This world seems really interesting and I’ve heard about it for a while now. Haven’t watched the show either.

Edit: I guess I’ll read them first and listen for a re read. Goodluck deciding future people googling this question and seeing this thread.

Much as I am loving the series, I'm getting very annoyed with most of the female characters. So, so many are about to fall out of their dresses (and if I read the word bosom one more time I might have to put the books down for a while).

The Aiel women share men no question (I get it is a culture thing for them, but it is rubbing me the wrong way with men having multiple wives, but never the other way round).

The Aes Sedai (and another character from Crown of Swords I won't mention due to spoilers) come across as very controlling and predatory.

[Major character] gets some domestic abuse thrown his way via a woman - anyone at least half way through the books should easily know who I am referring to.

The only recurring female characters I like are Egwene and Moiraine (maybe Verin too)- all the others have something dislikable about them. Does this improve in the second half of the series? Does Nynaeve have an accident where she loses all of her hair, and therefore can no longer tug her braid when angry?

The scene where Cadsuane spanks Semirhage to break her mentally reminded me of this scene from Community.

I got to half way through book 3 on my first time. I’m rereading book 1 now. So please no spoilers on specifics. But I am curious, are these characters constantly going to be in danger? I know it might be silly to compare but Harry Potter wasn’t in danger every day at Hogwarts for example. There were extended periods where Rowling lets the reader bask in a fantasy world of wonder and awe. I just feel especially with the first two books the characters were constantly on the run, and danger lurked around every corner.

Can I watch the show before I read the books or should I read then watch? A friend told me of I liked Brandon Sandersons stormlight archives that wheel would be a good next book, so if like to get into it but don't have the $ for books

I know many fans of the books want nothing to do with the Amazon series. Is there a way to distinguish? I'm not looking to argue about how good or bad the series is, I just want a space for the books and books alone not tainted by the changes in the series or their adamant fanboy warriors.

Yet every subreddit I've seen either includes the series or excludes the books. If anyone could point me to the subreddit I'm missing, I would be very grateful.

A little background, I started reading the series after watching the show. I know there are some strong opinions there, but the show was good enough to get me started. Since then, I've binge-read Books 1-4 in like 2 months and I am currently 100pgs into FoH. I'm looking to consolidate my thoughts on the series so far and talk about it with people who may actually care/ understand what I'm talking about lol

Biggest thing, Shadow Rising was an absolute gamechanger for the series. Books 1-3 I was interested, but after book 4 I am in love. Everybody seems to get their own personal development and are having their own adventures, independent of Rand. Elayne, learning about weaving winds, and she and Nynaeve in Tanchico dealing with a coup and Black Ajah. Egwene learning more about Dreamwalking and her butting heads with the Wise Ones. Matt, just stumbling his way into an Odin impersonation, waiting for Egwene's vision of him losing his eye to happen, plus his PoV being caught in the whirlpool of destiny that is Rand. Speaking of Rand, seeing him finally trying to learn more about his destiny and trying to be proactive has been a very refreshing change of pace. Also, just learning about the origin of the Aiel was incredible. Perrin and Faile has been absolutely chef's kiss. Their relationship has to be the most well developed of any so far and you have seen them fall more and more in love with each other. Even their fighting for the first half of the book stems from their caring for one another, even if their stubbornness and youth make their communication break down. Then Perrin gathering the entirety of Two Rivers to arms and his overall character growth, it makes me wonder why he wasn't on the cover of this book, my Tor version has Matt on the cover. Honestly Matt's major events wrapped up so quickly into the book, I don't know why he was the cover character, because I kept expecting more to come from him.

My biggest issue with the series so far, is how every one of our main characters seem antagonistic to each other? Let me explain reasoning, supposedly our main, younger, characters from Two Rivers weren't just from the same town, they were childhood friends. Matt and Rand were friendlier when they first left the Two Rivers, but as the series has progressed he seems to resent Rand, feeling that Rand's destiny is keeping him from leaving. Egwene has a seeming superiority complex over everyone since starting the Aes Sedai training. She very minimally interacts with anyone who isn't a woman that can channel, and when she does, she seems to be speaking from a high horse. As of the start of FoH, she is a few months into her Dreamwalking training and somehow Rand doesn't know why she is training with the Wise Ones. Nynaeve also comes off as a bully, but that is somewhat understandable since prior to this she was ultimate authority in Emond's Field. Even accounting for that it comes off as excessive. I still remember in book 3 when Matt saved the girls from the jail, and they just kind of stepped right over him as if he was insignificant. Rand is standoffish with everyone at this point, well, standoffish and tired. I know that Battle of the Sexes is a key theme of the book, but also how men and women working together accomplish the greatest feats. I still feel like I'm waiting on that second part.

On that note, I'm also wondering when the relationships between Moirainne and the rest of the Emond's Fielder's will improve. Everything I said about Egwene feeling superior can definitely be said about Moirainne. However, I feel the actions she has done throughout the past 4 books have earned her at least a little bit of trust. That being said, she could extend a similar sentiment to everyone else, since she is about as forthcoming to them as she would be to a rival Aes Sedai.

All that out on the table, the interpersonal conflicts make the reads extremely entertaining. And I cannot wait to see how every single one of these characters grow. I just want everyone to speak their feelings and trust their allies and friends dammit! lol

Can't wait to see what Fires of Heaven brings!

(I'm only at book 4) I don't know why this feels fitting but it's somehow makes sense to me. What do you think, what would choose for main theme? (Me second pick would me anything for frieren ost)

Btw link for the music if you are interested: https://open.spotify.com/track/5hQrrQV1TlUp354fhZegga?si=q4-t0qNcSkmhEwE9BnebiQ

Wow, can't believe I'm the one writing one of these posts, I've seen them for 2 years. What a saga, a very satisfying ending, things really escalated. Now I can go read stuff on the internet without worry about being spoiled.

Here's what I didn't like about the ending:

The Padan Fain part seemed tacked on just to wrap up an abandoned plot thread

I never got into the Luc/Slayer stuff

Never got flashbacks of the Dark One corrupting the Forsaken. Who were they before they turned full dark? Apparently you can find all of that info online, I guess New Spring or Strike on Shayol Ghul explains it?

Was hoping for flashback to Lews Therin's heydey, maybe some 100 companions stuff

Demandred was cool but the whole Sharans out of nowhere plot was so random

Epic showdowns between people who don't really have an established history of interacting at all. Like Egwene vs M'Hael and Avhienda vs Graendal

Here's what I LOVED:

Rand vs. DO in the cave or the void or whatever that was

Heroes returning when the horn is blown, in particular Birgitte's immediate revenge and the dead WOLVES, that was stunning.

Mat's moves on the battlefield.

The fights with Demandred, the G boys and Lan

LOGAIN! It was so brilliant how Min's viewing for him made no sense when I was reading a year ago, I wanted so badly to find out what it would mean. Amazing.

Androl who came to the story late in the game but played a big role.

Egwene and Avhienda coming up huge for the light.

Very satisfying conclusion.

I’m halfway through the Fires of Heaven and I cannot stand Nynaeve’s character at all. I love the books so far and am excited to keep reading them but I really hope she dies soon or gets some kind of major attitude adjustment. Every chapter of hers or any time she’s talked about doing something I loathe it. Lord she bugs me

I'm on my second reread of the series and I've just started "Path of Daggers." Moridin and Cyndane have recently made their first appearances, and it made me wonder how reincarnation works for the Forsaken.

Everyone is reborn; "spun out by the wheel," as it were. But the Forsaken are all reborn immediately, fully aware of who they are, with the same personalities, intentions, grievances, etc. Is this some process that happens at Shayol Ghul with the blessing/permission of the Dark Lord, or is it automatic because their souls are bound to him? They seem to just reappear with no explanation.

Do you think they get to choose their new appearances (seems unlikely because of how proud/vain they were), or are their new bodies and names intended to re-disguise them?

Last question: Why is Ishamael reborn as Nae'blis instead of being punished? Everyone else seems to go through a period of disgrace after failing the Dark Lord.

The first time I read this I was so swept up by the lore and story-building that I didn't question much, I just went with it. Forgive me if all of this ends up being answered in the remaining books and I just forgot 😉

Just a heads up: several spoilers forthcoming.

So, I'm currently about halfway through Winter's Heart on my fifth listen through, and some details have been on my mind: •Where's the schools? I know Rand has built three academies, but where do children get their schooling from otherwise? I'll admit ignorance in terms of historical education, but surely more than nobles and well off people were able to have some form of learning. •If Elayne is so smitten with Rand, wouldn't it make more since that she would work with him on the academy in Caemlyn rather than simply take it from him? I know she's got all kinds of political considerations, but it seems to me she'd at least acknowledge his creation, rather than making it her own in honor of her mother. •The feathers came back! I remember going through The Shadow Rising wondering to myself whatever happened to the feathers that Rand tried to make into a flower for Elayne. Then in chapter 10, they're mentioned as being kept in her purse. It was a nice little detail I've never noticed before. •I thought Alliandre was supposed to be smart/clever? We're told in previous books how deftly she handled Masema, and therefore how clever she is, yet after being captured by the Mera'din, she immediately goes haughty and blurts out details that if she were smart she would've kept to herself. I understand it was a stressful situation, but really, that was quite the wool-headed move. •Something I noticed quite a while back, but I still think it's interesting that Sharina Melloy is brought in as a real person, and that she is shown to be very deft in the healing Nynaeve discovered. Especially considering that during Nynaeve's testing for accepted, Lan suggests her going to Sharina for healing.

Just some off-the-top-of-my-head thoughts. One of my favorite parts of driving a truck for a living is being able to listen to this series so many times. It's been right about four and a half years, and these characters feel like friends.

Which book has the appearance of the white tower drop outs? I remember reading about one who has a very flexible shield, but I can’t find mention of it on the Google.

I want to know if for example woman with power level 10 of 60 can fight with someone who is 8/60 on mostly even ground, then maybe soometimes win with 5/60 and never win with someone 3/10?
or maybe woman who is a 10 in power system for normal women could never win even with 8 because 8 is much much stronger than 10?

how many level 10 woman need to fight with one level 1 woman to beat her most of the time in raw strenght? 2? 10? 100? (everyone tells me that circle of woman is weaker than individual women added and forming a circle do not increase power so ignore this feature)

I am starting to think that power level means close to nothing. 7 women with average strenght level of maybe 5 still can defeat man with level 1+12+5. Man who is 22 levels (sic!) higher than average strenght of those women. And note that training is not important in shielding or gentling according to many statements from wiki, it is raw strenght battle, and shielding someone who is chanelling like false dragon in that cave, is supossed to be orders of magnitude harder than normal shielding, but still 7 women 20 levels lower can do this (remember circle do not increase raw power). Then maybe 8 or 9 women should easly defeat a frosaken or even dragon reborn. becasue all of them are simmilar in strenght to false dragon.

So how much stronger someone with level 47 is than someone with level 46? 1%? 10%? 20%?
and ist it linear? if woman with level 46 is 10% stronger than woman with level 47 does that means that rand is only 10% strnger than false dragon? (1++ vs 2++)

Also pls ignore all training and other non power related aspects. lets imagine 2 woman with identical training but different power lewels.

I hate it. It’s bad. I loved the last battle. These last few books were truly a blessing upon the series. Why does Rand leave though?

He leaves his pregnant girlfriends, dad, and others who love him to grieve at a funeral pyre and just dips? It makes no sense. Yeah being the chosen one is hard but abandoning those you love is bullshit. This ending is bad, the main character was liberated of his “responsibility”. Which means he’s just gonna, idk, roam? It’s left to interpretation but that’s dumb also. Why spend so long making us love a character and then leave the interpretation he becomes a deadbeat dad because the pressure was too much. It’s OVER. He should be with the people grieving him.

TLDR: great last battle, stupid ending for a character we loved.

Spoiler! Apart from Dead girl scene. IN TDR while he's not in the book that much, he's not OK.

I’m on my second read through and Matt, Tom, and “Noel” are about to enter the tower of Genjai to play the game that can’t be won and rescue Moraine.

“Courage to strengthen, fire to blind, music to daze, iron to bind AND MATROM CAUTHEN TO BLOODY EVEN THE ODDS.”

Let’s go.

I put off playing the newest Pokemon game until I finished the series, and I immediately run into another false dragon.

Am I the only one who visibly smiled like a weirdo at this part?!

Actually, it was spotted while watching The Terminal. First time seeing this on the big screen.

I'm about 200 pages in if that gives any reference, and the story is just outrageously boring, there are some parts that grab my attention here and there but ultimately it feels like this book is going to be a waste in the series. I'd just like to know, does it ever pick up in this book or does it stay dry all throughout?

Edit I meant to put Path of Daggers not crown of swords.

So, I stared my WoT journey last September as a started a new Master’s program, and the first 14 books (including first spring) lasted me the whole year.

I cried, laughed, stayed awake some night just to read it. I read other books in between but always came back to it.

I read about 10 chapters in AMoL and for the life of me I can’t pick it up again. I feel like I don’t want it to end, that if I don’t finish it, it will just keep going.

It’s been about 3 months since I started it and I can’t finish it. I read red rising, some Terry Partchet and other things, and even though I want to finish it at the same time I can’t pick up the book.

Do you have any advice ? Any minor spoilers that might make me want to finish it ? :)

#Spoilers ahead

Ever see weaves from the opposite gender? In Gathering Storm, >!Semirhage had Rand with the Dominion Band and there’s this excerpt!< …

!… And then he began to form weaves, complicated ones of Spirit and Fire. “Yes,” Semirhage said, almost to herself. “Now, if I can remember. . . . The male way of doing this is so odd, sometimes.”!<

Also, while talking about learning to channel in one of the earlier books, Lanfear tells Rand that he needs a woman to practice with in order to defend from a female channeler. And then later Nyneave is training the sailor people and it is implied that practice requires intimate knowledge of how to counter said weaves. Moghedian also tells the girls that men and women Travel entirely differently so she has to know somehow to form the weave if she needs to teach a man how to Travel should it ever be necessary.

Just a thought.

I know the slog in the middle of the series gets a lot of critique for being overlong but I have specifically seen Winter's Heart ranked as one of the worst books in the series and I want to understand why. Some of the books in the slog have lackluster endings (Crossroads of Twilight) but Winter's Heart has one of the most epic endings in the series. Why don't people like this one?

I wanted to read it by publication order... but for some reason forgot that I was supposed to read New Spring BEFORE Knife of Dreams and I'm a third trough it. Would you recomend stopping, reading New Spring and then go back to Knife of dreams? Idk if I will be missing a lot, please no spoilers