I'm still processing this and it's hitting me how insane it was.

I went into the ER, was having serious angina symptoms, tight chest and upper back in waves, etc. Rural area in Canada at 3am so there's just one nurse in the hospital and she calls the doctor at home to come in if needed. Super religious area, culty.

The nurse was sweet at first. She was very obviously a religious type, hard to explain, just mannerisms. She was acting normal and nice. Asked a lot of questions, including a lot about my personal business, but they were passable for general chitchat. I thought it was for distraction. I was put on a cardiac monitor. She steps out.

A little while later she returns and was still acting normal, saying the doctor is coming as I'm having some concerning results, but was making some passive aggressive comments that were sort of scolding as if I was a child, about random things. She seemed irked I came to her hospital instead of another and despite my explanations why (abusive doctor works there and that this hospital had said it was fine to come to this one anytime because of that), and she started getting interrogative about my personal life.

She wanted to know about my child. Wanted to known what times I dropped my child off with my ex and oh she's sleeping over and oh you called him at 6, trying to contradict my prior answers for some odd reason.

Then she starterd asking about my relationship with my ex. Kept asking where I worked, repeatedly, despite my answering her. Inserted little passive aggressive clips in between questions. Asked where my ex worked, etc.

Touched a scar on my neck and suggested in a "Hmm" way that wasn't from what I explained it was from. Very odd things.

Meanwhile I was having a serious cardiac event and could barely move from pain. I brushed it off to loneliness and poor social skills.

She then says as if my mother, "You've been through enough too much," in a bit-too-comfortable way which I raised an eyebrow at.

I said "No, everything is good, no stress lately."

She says she needs to put in an IV. She's interrupting my answers to her question too fast, so I figured putting in IV's made her nervous.

I mentioned I can't get any bloodwork in my right arm when she mentioned I need bloodwork. Usually nurses say "Ah, np," but she interrogated me about it, and I had to explain in explicit detail about a botched blood draw that made me instantly vomit and pass out and a year of severe nerve damage in my arm, and that I've been told in no uncertain terms not to have blood drawn in that arm again.

She made a comment in contradiction after, "Having to get through all that trauma and then you'll fine having it done there again." She was talking in this pseudo-therapist tone, as if I was a psych patient.

I was feeling uncomfortable around her.

She goes to put in the IV. She says "Oh you have little veins!" Which I have never had before, lab techs love me, so I figured for some reason they were smaller that day. She kept saying that as she held my hand.

So then she inserts the IV, but then she says in a sort of dissasociated, high way, "Your veins are hiding," and repeats this sort of thing as she wriggles the needle around in my hand exactly how I'd described had caused the botched nerve damage in my arm just prior.

I watched her slide it all the way in and out three times and purposefully wriggle it, and as she does this, she starts hitting a nerve. I start to feel nauseous and lean forward, breathing through it. I didn't think she'd done anything purposeful yet, just missed the vein.

She takes the needle out and stands a bit over my bed and bends so she's face to face to mine and is smiling and eager that I'm getting sick.

When I say I feel nauseous, just a sec, she whispers "You know why," in an slow, super personal way, really deeply emotional, as if we're in a therapist's office and she's trying to get me to have a breakdown. I started to get panicky, mostly from the mix of being in the midst of a heart attack and now the immense nausea and what she was doing.

I blurted at her very bluntly "What are you doing?"

She then stood up straight like a robot does and walked out of the room with a creepy blank smile.

Didn't try to do finish the IV, didn't put a bandage over the injection, no gloves on, etc. Just randomly walked out.

The lab tech came in and did my blood draw and mentioned my veins were great when I asked him to check my hand.

Anyway, after considering and feeling very unsafe, I removed my cardiac monitor and put on my coat to leave.

She walked in as I was putting on my coat in an awkward, stiff way, not looking at me and smiling and walking slowly and saying in a disjointed way how leaving is my right. I said "I'm aware..."

I remember she said to my questions as I left, about what she was trying to do and did, she said "Well I needed to find out your trigger." When I said that was inappropriate, and in no way okay, she just had a blank expression.

When I said look just apologize and it's done, we're cool, she had zero affect on her expression and said "Well I don't need to."

She sort of floated off in a weird slow way, and I had to leave the hospital and drive to another 30 mins away, turns out I was having a heart attack and am recovering at home now. Just wtf.

I’m finally sharing the religious abuse I went through. 

When I was 14, I was fighting an eating disorder. My mom believed, however, that I was “under attack” from the devil and, essentially, possessed. I know-- crazy stuff. What ended up happening? My mom drove me to a Catholic Church and had an exorcism done because she believed I was possessed. This was only the first time.

To say this has affected my self-conception and self-esteem is an understatement… and it was 16 years ago! 

I hope this helps someone out there. Religious abuse is more common than people think, and it’s no less damaging than any other form of abuse.

Click here to check out the full video: https://youtu.be/yEGzFwk9mZg?si=nKtffwaz3NszEMeD

I just got out of a very abusive psychological/ controlling church. I grow up is this environment and even though it will be a year in October I still connect with my faith and want to continue practicing it but I’m struggling. Is it normal to struggle with your religious beliefs after going through that? I hate using labels because I’m not sure what they all mean but my friends have told me that I’m a survivor of highly controlling religious cult. I'm in my earlier 20's how do people follow their faith without being triggered by the things people do that had little to nothing to do with the faith? Any resources/ thoughts are helpful

Hi everyone,

I’m really glad to join this community. Several years ago I stepped away from my church family of almost 50 years, and I know how isolating and confusing that can feel. It’s been a journey of questioning and searching.
I’m here to share experiences, listen, and support through this transition. I believe we can learn a lot from each other’s stories. Looking forward to connecting with all of you.

All the best to each one of you!

Hi Everyone!

I wanted to introduce myself. I'm an LMFT in California with a specialization of Religious Trauma. I just opened up my own private practice after a while in the corporate therapy world.

To accompany the practice, I am starting a podcast! I am curious what kinds of things you'd like to hear on a podcast? Do you have questions about anything you'd like someone to explain or discuss? Who would you like to see on a podcast? Do you want to share your own story? Have a resource that worked for you and want to share?

My hope is that I can be a voice that provides hope and support to those of us who have this unique experience. I also want to lift other voices up to share their stories. Just hearing about how other people have gone through similar things can be incredibly healing. Let's hear it!

I am recovering from religious abuse and spiritual abuse. It has ruined aspects of my life. I stopped attending about 7 months ago. I am a part of an online Christian community - vetted- and feel safe there. I do pray for people when I feel it's appropriate and read the bible because I want to not because I have to. I still am very much a Holy Spirit filled Christian. But I need a break from going on Sunday and especially with Evangelical, Pentecostals. I need time to think and hear from God.

I just needed to say this. I chose to let go of all my past Christian relationships that were very controlling, brainwashing and abusive and cult like in nature. Where it was always be like this, be like that, earn love, etc. I am healing from the guilt of pushing that on others especially people who I have cared about.

I have been taken advantage of so much with these people and the control and the lies and BS. I'm over it. I don't know where things will lead for me. I am challenging myself to not buy or give any gifts for a year for anyone out of guilt or obligation or manipulation, I am not going to approach people to witness and pray for them because I am supposedly evangelizing but it's manipulating. I am going full stop. I didn't realize how co-dependent I was on Church and serving and it was amplifying my OCD issues to a high degree. That's not love and I'm letting it all go.

I've already been coming out of it for a year but now I am really going No Contact with attending any churches that are especially Pentecostal and evangelical in nature, no fringe house church groups that are abusive and become politically obsessive and strange and act terribly ignorant hostile judgemental and controlling. Just none of it.

I was 6 yrs old when “What the Bleep Do We Know” was released. I was between 7-11 the first time I watched it (with my family) and it became a reoccurring movie night feature in my home. my mom seemed to believe in the ideas presented because she did reference them often to me growing up in day to day life. that is to say that it became part of her parenting in a way.

about 8 years ago (dont hold me to that timeline) i first heard of the controversy surrounding Mark Vicente from my ex gf but she told me to rest assured because he was simply a victim afterwards. i never looked into it at that time

after i became a teenager i really only put this movie on for my friends when we were all high and stuff lol. about 3 and a half years ago i put this film on for an ex and i had admitted to him it was pretty important to me. within a few minutes he’s screw-faced, google searching and then smugly says “this is pseudoscience”. i was so shocked and upset it felt like a slap in the face. i was immediately defensive, way more defensive than i can ever remember myself getting over anything else outside of my own character. like this is just a movie, why would i be soooo upset? but i really was. i denied that could be true. pretty sure i just told him to shut up and told him he was an asshole. i remember feeling deeply hurt and embarrassed but, we just changed the movie and didnt talk about it anymore than that. if he tried to reason with me i clearly blocked it out immediately but i assume that he could sense it was a touchy subject at that point and let it go.

almost two years ago, my (current) fiance and i were discussing this incident. i was still very defensive in my retelling of the story, i felt that my ex, even if he was correct, should have been more tactful in his delivery and that ultimately, his skepticism was not enough to change my position entirely.

it was at that time that i finally had the courage to look it up myself. it obviously was very readily available information; that the film was made almost exclusively by members of the Ramtha school as an insidious promotional/recruitment film. At that time I clearly understood what these things meant and yet I felt nothing. If I felt anything, it was cognitive dissonance and denial. But when I couldnt convince myself that it was plausibly legit, I closed my phone and went on with my life. It has taken me the past two years to accept that the concepts I learned growing up were pure dogshit. It hit me like a freight train in the last week, as it has been quietly nagging in the back of my head since I found out.

for a clearer understanding of how this affected me, often when a child is exposed information that is not age appropriate, they cannot help but to internalize that in an unhealthy way. i have been fascinated and researched cults and high control groups for most of my adult life and so i already understand the seeds of mind control present in the film. the woowoo ass “believing is seeing” shit they preach is just another way to put emphasis on individual responsibility so that when bad things happen u blame urself for attracting it with ur own negative energy. and then u feel even less empowered and in control, which is exactly what these groups want, because they want to be in control of you. they place JZ Knight alongside a mix of seeming as well as legitimate experts, for credibility, in hopes you will not notice the disproportionate screen time given to her. despite my obsession with and studying of various, it took me years to make the connection. even in spite of the critical mind i have matured into on my own, and the beliefs i hold now that counter those beliefs formed around this new age cult garbage, it has taken me until to finally accept that not everything bad that happens is my fault because i was too negative deep inside. ive grown up with a negative internal locus of control and its been so damaging to my self esteem.

it was when i was watching the Twin Flames cult doc on netflix last month that alarm bells really started ringing. they were describing the mirror exercise and breaking down what that does to your psyche and wellbeing and it just felt too familiar. In Dancing with the Devil, Elisha describes feeling sick and broken and thinking she needs to be cleansed, but really she was just being abused by the pastor. I cried because that feeling resonated with me. I realize thats because high control group leaders need you to believe there is something wrong with you at all times or they cannot control you and abuse you.

there have been low points in my adult life where i sincerely thought, i should find a cult to join, cuz i was tired of failing at being in charge of my own life and if i was gonna be unhappy, id rather not be unhappy at my own hand. now i wonder if i knew about RSE then, would i have gone and joined? in a way i feel that God or whatever i truly believe in, protected me from that fate.

now im left feeling ashamed, confused, embarrassed, vulnerable. but also like i might be overreacting to the whole situation? as i said, i was never a member of her cult, or any other cult for that matter. i have been a part of weird and corrupt New Age-adjacent groups but they didn’t meet the criteria for cults, and my time was fairly brief because I could clearly sense the bad vibes and I wasn’t about getting exploited! Or supporting fraudsters.

i’ve heard that other people in my age category have shared similar experiences.

so tldr; is it valid to feel i was indoctrinated by the film “what the bleep do we know” via watching it repeatedly growing up?

I'm struggling with the decision to leave my current church due to experiences I feel were harmful and controlling. I've been told conflicting things, and I no longer feel included or valued. I'm also dealing with marriage issues and don't want to attend church with my partner. While I appreciate the kind messages from a couple of individuals, I don't feel comfortable sharing my personal struggles with them. I'm seeking support and guidance on how to navigate this difficult situation and find healing.

Okay, this one is going to be rough! If you are easily offended don’t read this post. This one has bits of Child Abuse, Religious Cult practices and some horrific shit.

When I was a young lad, I had behavioral issues. What kind of issues you might ask? Well, I kept on drawing and doodling during school. In elementary I would climb things and trees, I was restless when it was class time. Other behaviors were less than wholesome. If other kids tried taking my stuff, I punched them. Could I have done better? Sure. Some behaviors were typical of boys my age, but rather than acknowledge that, the education system, the powers that be and my own mother sent me down a dark road that took me years to recover. In this post I will go over the dangers of feminine-centric thought, neurotic mothers and supplicating behavior. I will also cover how I started unlearning bad practices and learning better ones.

The Cult of the Divine Feminine

I grew up with my grandparents up until the time I was 6. At that time my mother had remarried and decided I could live with her again. My other siblings grew up with her, but for some reason I was sent away. My mother was very troubled, she had gone through a bit of abuse. But one day she found god… or so she claimed. Being a new convert, she decided me and my siblings ought to attend Sunday school. For some reason though she only sent me at first. It was my first day at Sunday school when my problems began. Never having studied the Bible or anything I sat in class pissed off that my previously free Sunday was now spent in a classroom. So, I did my usual thing, I doodled. I loved drawing dinosaurs at the time. So, I drew my carnivorous dinosaurs (because they are the cool ones). This upset the teacher and whenever he tried to get me to read, I doodled. Finally, he demanded to know if I had a learning disability, and to be funny I said “hell no.” Little did I know shit was about to get real! Once class was over, I started making my way out, when suddenly the teacher blocked my path and locked me in. He ended up grabbing me and shoving me quite harshly. I waited inside for my mother.

Hell, even just writing these events now, leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. Eventually my mother was brought in and the teacher explained to my mom that I was demon possessed. The proof? Well look at all the evil drawings your son drew! Why else would a child draw such carnage? “Also, your son keeps talking about hell all the time, because the demons inside him want to go back” he said. I protested saying I was not possessed. And in front of my mother, the son of a bitch slammed me by the neck against a wall and called me a liar and a demon. I started crying. And worst of all my mother, whom I thought would protect me just stood there and said “what can be done about this? The teacher said leave this to us, we have a lot of experience in exorcism.

So, over the next several hours him and other “experts” locked me in a small room where they abused the hell out of me (pun intended). They kept trying to get me to confess that I was a demon, and try to figure out what evil deeds I did during the past millennia. For hours I protested saying I was not a demon, and to let me go! My cries fell on deaf ears. The experts put their hands on me a number of times under the guise of praying for me, but they caused me quite a bit of pain, they slapped and choked slammed me more than I can recall. I was 7 at the time. Eventually, I just started confessing things that I thought they wanted to hear just so they could let me go. I don’t know how much time passed but it was night time or so when I was finally released. That was my first taste of the feminine mysticism. Why do I call it the Divine feminine? That church focused little on doctrine and teaching the Bible. Rather more attention was placed on supernatural “spiritual” experiences. And I think I developed a kind of PTSD or rather I learned to spout what I needed to in order to not get beaten.

Coping and Becoming a Wimp

My problems were not over, my mother kept taking me there for several years. And this problem was not just a church thing. Other abuses kept happening but if I brought something up, she said “you are overexaggerating” or “that did not happen” and my favorite “you deserved it.” For some reason I think my mother had it out for me. Out of all my brothers, I was the one that looked most like my father, her ex-husband. My mother hated my father, and over the years she made it a point to remind me what an evil man he was and how she was afraid of me because I was just like him. My grandparents never treated me poorly. I remember that I used to sing a lot. But something changed around the time I started living with my mother, I stopped singing. I used to be pretty jovial, playful and adventurous in a boyish way. Yet that was replaced because of my mother’s form of discipline. I read somewhere that mothers that hate their husbands get revenge by castrating their sons. Though I don’t know if that’s entirely true, it sure felt that way. A brutha I know said “that’s why a lot of bruthas are so emotional, cuz of our mothers raising us like women! also explains why we’re obsessed with shoes”

There is this weird dynamic at play and I still can’t make sense of all of this. One of my older brothers was quite the trouble maker, a sadistic fucker. He used to kill, and torture animals for fun. He almost killed me and one of my other brothers on multiple occasions. Yet for some reason my mother looked favorably upon him; personality wise this brother and my mother were identical. Whenever this brother would pick a fight with me and hit me or beat me, my mother punished me because I must have done something to piss him off. And she convinced my stepfather to kick my ass for things my brother had done or especially for defending myself. My step father was not an evil man, in fact he did me a lot of good. He was just misguided by my mother, but eventually when he had kids of his own with her, he started setting boundaries on her neurotic behavior. My step fathers’ discipline was always consistent, and he was a fair arbiter. He would not beat me for defending myself. He actually cared about the who, what, where and why a fight started; my mother’s justice was always based upon how she felt. If she felt I deserved it, then I did. The way I understood it at the time was that bothering her with my problems was bad, so I deserved what I got. This pattern is not uncommon. While men tend to form structured patterns of discipline, women, especially single-moms tend toward the chaos spectrum.

After I began living with mom, my personality changed drastically. I ended up becoming extremely serious about everything at a young age. I became so closed off that people thought that I did not have emotions or that I was autistic. More accurately I think it was a coping strategy; I behaved as if I had no needs or wants so no one could deny them. Ironically, I became very well versed in the Bible, more on that later. I became academically gifted and read a lot. Yet at the same time I became very timid. I kept trying to understand everything and what I did wrong thinking maybe if I understood I would not get hurt. I ended up developing some very beta peace keeping tendencies which did not help me at all. School was not doing me any favors either. I got bullied quite a bit. I got punished at school for fighting bullies, and then at home I got beaten. Eventually I got the message, I stopped fighting back. This went on for some time. I remember that I used to see my mother really idealistically. And I think I tried to please her lest she abandon me again. But everything has its limits. For some reason at the time, I could not see her for what she was. Even though she did me much harm, I saw her as some kind of holy figure. Perhaps this was a form of Stockholm syndrome.

Redemption and Fighting Back

Much like the movie the Shawshank Redemption, I had my own moment of freedom; For me it took years and going thru a bunch of shit, but I finally gained clarity. One day my elder brother (the sadistic one) called me outside because he wanted to show me something. When I went to look at some garbage he found, he whacked me in the head with a wooden pole. I was dazed and I could taste blood in my throat. I don’t know why he did that, but after doing so he ran inside the house where my mother and a guest were talking. He stood next to my mother taunting me. I wanted to complain and tell my mother what he did. But right there something changed in me. I knew that if I told my mother nothing would happen, rather she would continue to gaslight me and send my step father to beat me. THIS WAS NOT FAIR! I said to myself. Enough! fuck her, and fuck him! So, in front of her guest, I punched my brother straight in the face knocking him down. And then when he was on the floor, I kicked him several times in the face. When she demanded me to apologize and explain myself, I completely ignored her and stopped supplicating; This stunned her completely as normally I would justify myself or complain and she did not know how to react.

Though I seemed indifferent after the fact, in truth I expected the beating of a life time when my stepfather came home. But strangely enough nothing happened. Sometime later my brother shot me with a slingshot in the back of the head. I remember waking up on the ground, being drowsy and seeing a lot of blood whilst he stood over me in sheer delight with a grin on his face! And remembering the lesson from last time I got up, picked up a metal bat, and started beating him. He cried like never before and I did not stop until I just about broke several limbs. Even then I got on top of him and started punching him in the face several times for good measure. That was the last time he ever tried hurting me like that. And strangely enough I did not get beaten. Right around then my school life started changing. If before I was a loner with no friends, I started making friends. I got in plenty of fights at first but then suddenly all the fights stopped; I guess the bullies learned. From then the rest of my school life was peaceful.

Years later at church, I ended up exposing some contradictions and scandals in the pastor’s practice. The pastor tried teaching some weird cult practices as legit. He used to make a lot of predictions about the end times; According to him George Bush was the Anti-Christ. But by this point I knew the material enough to call him out on it, so I did. That church ended up losing a lot of its members. Afterwards my mother went to another church that was even more occultic. I went to that church of my own accord and argued and preached against the practices there and caused many to leave. Eventually they kicked me out. Was this petty? I don’t think so; Perhaps it was something like retribution or absolution.

This was a painful process for me. I had to unlearn everything I was taught. I used to be reprimanded to keep the peace, even if you did nothing wrong. One of the lessons I was taught was “if someone ever hurts you or offends you, you must be the one to seek their forgiveness. “I was always expected to be the bigger man. Now I call things out, I do not avoid confrontations if they need to happen. My mother beat it into my head to be nice to women, and not to be like my father. I internalized that I must be different and make my mom proud! Eventually I stopped simping and suddenly girls in school started showing interest in me. I can’t say that I figured things out right away. Somethings I did, others took me years to unlearn. In a strange way the current me, and the me that started fighting back are very similar to my childhood self before mom. Looking back now and trying to make sense of it all I think: life is not complicated. When I was young, I knew what was right. I knew what to do, how to have fun, how to make friends, defend myself and talk to girls. I had to be taught how to simp, how to cower, how to be altruistic to my own detriment. I had to relearn how to enforce boundaries.

Lemonade and Kool aide

Stop drinking the Kool aide! When life gives you lemons, you make lemonade. What about when you get a neurotic mother, and a school system that makes drones and pushovers? You seek answers. Pain is the best teacher I have ever had. Pain was the catalyst that led me to learn the way things really were. Getting abused by cultist led me to study many religions and seek out God. Getting my ass kicked forced me to learn technique. Crooked cops led me to learning my rights. Getting friend zoned was the impetus to stopping nice guy behavior. Most things in life are a process. No one came into this world with all the answers. I know many guys that beat themselves up for not knowing how ignorant they were but that’s bollocks! You don’t know what you don’t know. Its one thing to have a bad upbringing, it’s another thing to remain there. While society, church or your family may try and cripple you, your role is indispensable. Some of you may have been dealt a bad hand, if so; Sharpen yourselves and become the men and fathers you wish you had. Everyone has their own demons, what you do with them is up to you!

Respectfully

The Most Alpha of Bunnies

i got a girlfriend but im very traumatized by my parents abuse she thinks i don't like her because

i dont open up please help

What I went through messed me up so badly that it took me 8 years to even find this subreddit or to start Google searching some of these things recently. I'm sure some of y'all can relate where you just couldn't even Google for the right resources.

After 8 years I finally was able to start writing about it starting a month ago. And that process has been so difficult, re-traumatizing but also helped me understand a few new things about the situation I didn't see at first. Particularly how much the churches abuse hurt my own wife who left me shortly after to devastating effects. The pastor and his wife tried to destroy our marriage and eventually it happened. Anyways being able to view her as a serious recipient of the trauma as well as myself has helped me make sense and be more sympathetic with my anger to my wife losing her mind and going thermonuclear. I know she has regrets and is sorry now, but all the damage has been done.

The memories just don't heal thiugh. But now I'm plugging into a community like this. I never imagined this would even be a subreddit.

Anyways hello everyone.

Hello all! Looking for some advice here, or maybe just some different perspectives.

I have a few younger school-aged kiddos -- their dad and I are divorced, and his wife has been in my kids' lives for about the past 5 years.

My ex and I never really prioritized religion while we were together, although we both classified ourselves as Christian. I was the one who grew up strictly religious, and he would never go to church with me unless I practically begged him. Fast forward to after we split, I quickly started moving away from the toxicity that I had been surrounded with regarding Christianity. He went in the opposite direction and married a woman with borderline fundamentalist beliefs. In a nutshell -- I would never judge someone for what they choose to believe as it is a highly personal choice -- however, I do have a huge problem with her extreme beliefs being pushed onto my kids. I get it -- their dad has every right to practice whatever religion he chooses in his home, as do I, but I can see the indoctrination happening right before my eyes and it makes me upset to think about all of the unlearning they'll eventually have to do.

My question for this thread is: what are some good ways to deal with/counteract all of the harmful teachings that are going on in his house? This includes (and is obviously not limited to):

1. Intense shame around making mistakes, not "following god's plan", having sexual feelings, etc.

2. Fear surrounding the idea that making mistakes will send you to hell, or not believing a certain way will also send you to hell.

3. Creationist teachings-- the earth is only 6,000 years old, evolution is baloney, etc. (and get this -- step mom is a public school teacher...make it make sense?)

4. Men and women are not equals, and any family unit that doesn't follow god's way is not a true family (i.e. me -- I am a single mother).

I don't believe there has been any direct words said about how my lack of religious fervor makes me lesser than -- but from what my kids have shared with me, it is looked down upon in a very passive, indirect way.

I feel like I've done a good job of being able to show my kids what it feels like to receive love without judgment or limitations. Leading by example and showing them that being religious is not a requirement for being a good person, and that critically thinking about what they are told (even by authority figures) will always serve them well. I realize that as they get older, they will start to understand things more thoroughly, but sometimes it feels like my ex and his wife double down on religious teachings whenever I lean into showing our kids a different way to view things.

I have extended an invitation multiple times to their dad to speak about religion and other parenting things -- he is just not willing to. It is incredibly difficult to get him to talk about things beyond the surface level, let alone have conversations that actually solve anything.

I appreciate any advice/different takes anyone can give me here!

I don't have very many dreams so it was unusual for me to wake up remembering one that was fairly vivid. The dream took place in a church that seemed to be a similar layout of one I attended in my teens, with around 500 people or so. I was looking for a seat by my parents but there wasn't enough room by them near the front. My husband was coming later and I moved to the back to make room for him. Then he arrived with our two dogs! He said he was looking for food for them but there wasn't any. We both went to the back into another room. He was wearing a security vest for some reason? He said he needed to help with security. I took the dogs and we tried to stand in the back of the church but one of my dog started to poop on the floor! My husband walked by with a trash bag and handed it to me. When I looked down I noticed my dog's crap wasn't the only pile there. I noticed a huge amount of dirt and cleaned it too, so it was cleaner than before.

At about this time a young woman ran up to the front of the church where a man I didn't recognize was preaching. The stage was very high tech and looked expensive. She was trying to dust the table at the front during his sermon. Dust went everywhere because the table was so dirty. I started to cough and couldn't see because the air became so polluted.

I took the dogs and went outside. I saw my husband and he called for me to go to a different room upstairs. There were tables available for us and a servant brought fresh warm bread that seemed to have olive oil on it for us, and our dogs. Then the dream ended.

The Bible story of how the dogs even get crumbs from the master's table came to my mind. I think there are many layers to this dream for me though. Feeling rejected from my "family" not just my related family but my spiritual one. Also my husband and I have had a calling to minister to those many reject, the homeless, abused, etc... It can be very difficult for these to be "fed" in our churches! I feel frustrated seeing so much of the church's resources being used for seemingly self serving motives, such as the expensive stage, not for the needy or hungry, etc... In my dream to find food we had to totally leave the building.

I know my husband has often been used in church as a spiritual "security guard." He is aware of dangers but protective of the weak and vulnerable. I appreciated his preparedness when I needed help in cleaning up the dog's mess in my dream.

This leads me to think of how often helping the abused in our midst (and I add myself to this list) can get really messy! I know my fear and trauma has led to some crap that others have had to deal with. But I feel like many pastors/churches don't have the desire to even deal with it. I have heard some more concerned about protecting each other from the risks of difficult church members. There's definitely some risk for sure! But loving one another always comes with a cost. Thankfully there's a table being prepared for the outcasts and the unwanted.

This issue has been a plague on my life for the past several months. I’ve always gotten along with my mother but this has changed in the last couple of years once I started disagreeing with her and standing up for myself. As a child she taught me by her behavior and by her words to be extremely fearful. Ex: Thunderstorms equal the end of the world, Obama is the Antichrist, we will all be beheaded by terrorists (she obviously didn’t/doesn’t understand geography because she was implying terrorists would travel across the seas to do this to us in our rural hometown), a flock of birds is the sign of the end days, NyQuil being taken off the shelves is a sign the government is starting a new virus, WWIII has started because of lots of planes are in the sky!!! I finally got tired of her instilling fear in me and her not carefully considering if what she’s spreading is truthful. As a child I did not dare to believe differently than her, I just accepted what she said as truth. Needless to say, I was plagued with fear and spent years of my childhood absolutely terrified of everything. So much joy was stolen from me. To this day I still struggle with fear and anxiety because I was taught at such a young age to think like this. I kid you not, I was telling her how I was working on my anxiety with therapists and other resources and she asked if I read my Bible everyday. I KNEW it was a trap and refused to respond. She continued to ask me the same question, 3 to 4 times. This is coming from the person who just spent the past week obsessing about tornadoes and how scared she is of them. Yes, tornadoes are scary BUT she’s never been in one and I can remember throughout my childhood and adult years her talking about bad weather as if it’s terrifying. She reads her Bible every day and is by far the most anxious person I know. She uses my salvation against me if I disagree with her and then denies that she did it! I finally got tired of her sending me conspiracy theories (she is an avid Glenn Beck fan) and told her I don’t like reading that kind of stuff because it gives me anxiety and none of the things she has told me since childhood have come true. She lost her freaking mind. She took off work, spent the day crying and called me “judgmental” then also denied that she called me judgmental. She said she can’t be herself around me and for years has had to walk on egg shells. I am failing to see how this is my problem. So she is allowed to spread lies under the guise that it’s going to happen, just not yet? She has no meaningful relationship with me or my other siblings except for maybe one. Our relationships with her are very surface level and she used to send us loads of sermons to listen to. I finally said we don’t want her to do that and she stopped. I feel like I can forgive her but I do not want a relationship with her. This has been plaguing me. Do I have to want a relationship with her? Is it possible to have a meaningful relationship with someone who believes and spreads fake news and will not own up to their mistakes without huge meltdowns? All I wanted was for her to acknowledge her behavior but somehow she made it about me “judging” her. Mind you, it took me 30 years to tell her the truth about how I felt. I resent that I feel so much guilt because in so many ways she has hurt me and taught me very wrong things but will not willingly own up to it. As a Christian, how should this be handled? I can’t stand spending time with her at this point. It’s miserable. When my kids tell me things I’ve done wrong towards them, I agree with them and apologize and work to do better. I don’t have a meltdown and blame them for my behavior. I just don’t understand it. I need a Biblical perspective. This is torturing me. Why do I have so much guilt??? Maybe because after our argument over her spreading false news, she posted a sermon over who is really saved or not. You can’t even disagree with the woman without her using Jesus as a weapon against you. I get it, I used to be like that but I stopped and went back and apologized to all those I hurt. Why can’t she do the same?

For those who have endured spiritual abuse, the podcast called "Wake Up and Win Podcast" is actually really helpful. I don't have any affiliation with IHOPKC, but this podcast was so insightful because the victim, Tammy Woods, shares the journey of how she was groomed by Mike Bickle for decades. It's rather tragic hearing how much of her life was affected by this man. I am thankful that the truth is finally coming to light. Hopefully it brings courage to others, even those outside of this particular church's circle, to speak. It seems that Tammy was certain her choice to remail silent for so long was the right thing to do (with the verses used such as "love covers a multitude of sins" as one reason she didn't speak). I do believe in grace and love and mercy, however, not speaking enabled Mike to abuse further victims. He was a predator and she assumed she was "the only one." I think the odds of being "the only one" are extremely slim in these cases. "Where there's smoke, there's fire" as the saying goes...

https://youtu.be/t8G-6ApJruI?si=R6gbxeXnfZ-C5FUP

Letter to a Hypocrite

Dear Ms. S.,

It’s ironic to hear from you

After being ignored for two years.

Thank you for your apology,

But it’s not my job to absolve you,

And you should know, I never will.

You have critiqued every breath I’ve breathed,

Just as you did your own children,

And I used to think you meant the best,

But you suffocated us all

With your inane, arbitrary rules.

You should know, you’re well remembered

For your dramatic, self-loathing guilt,

Casting yourself as a victim,

And using this to entrap others.

Well, I’m not falling for it now,

Because I know you beat yourself up

To gain the sympathy you crave,

But you’ll never actually change.

So these are my last words to you,

And there’s something I want you to know:

You can’t earn love with ugliness,

You can’t earn control by using shame,

And you can’t make a paradise

By taking all of your self-hatred

And vomiting it on others.

Sincerely,

R.

For those who are involved in Evangelical circles, most are familiar with Matt Redman. He is a well known worship leader and has written many well known songs used in most churches today. Songs such as "Blessed Be Your Name" and "10,000 Reasons" for couple examples.

Several months ago I posted about a scandal in the UK with an organization called "Soul Survivor" which was where Matt Redman had his start. Here's a link: https://www.reddit.com/r/spiritualabuse/comments/16dlyf0/after_investigation_by_the_church_of_england/

Matt did post a statement when the announcement was made in support of the victims. Today he shared a longer statement in the form of a short documentary: https://youtu.be/YVZkgdt32u8?si=SAwbl6F2iRxODfTF

There wasn't anything too surprising in this video to me. But I was grieved hearing how Matt shared that Mike was actually so helpful to him as a young 13 year old teen, trusting Mike with his own story of sexual abuse and how Mike was empathic and seemed helpful. It made me wonder if Mike was trying to do the right thing at first, or was he always grooming the next target? Then he started to shun Matt's fiancé and how that hurt her so much. Beth, Matt's wife, was very transparent with the pain she encountered. I couldn't help but wonder if the reason Mike Pilavachi shunned her was that he was actually jealous of how she was now Matt's main priority? Mike wanted the be the center of Matt's life and Beth became a "problem" from his point of view? We will never know why he chose to be so cold. It isn't unusual for narcissists to do this, however.

I was thankful they interviewed Dr. Diane Langberg a bit. She has so many years of working with victims of Spiritual Abuse and has so much wisdom to share.

The video ends with a longing for all things hidden in darkness to be brought into the light. To that I say, "Amen!"

That is the situation I found myself in. However, I could not find the type of groups I was looking for--mystical in nature. Being spiritual, but not religious would always lead me to New Age groups, where I found some troublesome issues as well. Maybe you consider yourself spiritual, but don't like religion. Yet you find yourself wanting an outlet to worship God with others. Problem is, you can't find what you are looking for. I'd love to hear more of what you are looking for. Curious your age as well and especially curious if there are more than I think in those group who grieve leaving a religious community and are looking for a better replacement.

about 4 years ago i experienced something i had never experienced before & it happened again a few days ago and it’s freaking me out. so the first time my energy got drained through my eyes (i heard eyes are the portals to your soul) i got invited out to eat dinner with some friends & i had a light headache & usually if i have a headache i rather stay in and go to sleep, but that day my headache was very mild so i was like whatever it’ll go away soon & i decided to go out for dinner. when we got there everything felt normal, but i started to notice a woman & a man from across the restaurant staring at me & gossiping to each other about something. at first i was like whatever let me brush this off, but every time i would look up they would be looking at me and then talking to each other & it just felt very weird that they were doing that. throughout my time being there there was a lot of eye contact exchange with them because of that reason & i never once saw them put any food in their mouths. WEIRD! also, my headache was continuously getting worse while this was happening, my head was pounding. by the time we all got up to leave they were gone & so was ALL my energy. when i got up i couldn’t even stand alone without holding on to one of my friends. i had never experienced something like this before i felt so weak & sick by the time i left.

fast forward to a few days ago, i was finishing up my workout with some cardio & there’s three rows of cardio machines at my gym. i was on the last row & there were two people, one being a woman & the other a man, on the first row of the cardio machines doing reverse incline right next to each other, so they were facing me. i always go to the gym at the same time every day so i know the regulars there & i had never seen them before. anyways, they were both talking on the phone while they walked in reverse & i felt someone staring at me so i looked up and the man was staring at me while he was on the phone & i thought to myself “oh it’s really odd they’re both talking to someone else over the phone while being right next to each other” i usually see people talking to each other when they’re together. i thought that was interesting, so i glanced at them a couple times because i felt like i was also being looked at. i had only been walking on the threadmil for about 6 minutes when all of a sudden i started feeling dizzy & felt like i was about to pass out. i was not doing high intensity cardio for that to happen so that was really weird and i had never experienced anything like that before. i ended up turning the machine off and taking a seat at the end of the treadmill to recollect myself. 4-5 minutes passed & i started feeling normal again & decided to get back on the threadmil & i noticed they were gone.

did they attempt to drain my energy & since they failed, they left? i’m honestly super spooked because a day before this happened the memory of my experience at the restaurant randomly popped up in my head. now i feel very paranoid & it’s really hard for me to sleep at night & i’m terrified of making eye contact with people. has anything like this ever happened to anyone else?

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/76FALu1FoHkGyH3nbK56hp?si=5CzxK-MOSV-MaxVo2armHQ&pi=u-rVHykPF0RnaM

Hello all, I put this playlist together recently and I thought it might possibly be helpful for someone else as well. It’s a hodgepodge mixture of songs from my favorite genre (metal), rock, pop, and folk. It’s in no particular order as far as my emotional journey, and has some songs which could be triggering (for instance, Your Power by Billie Eilish). They are just songs I’ve heard over the years that have spoken to me and helped me work thru a whole flurry of emotions. I would love to hear your suggestions as well (please nothing explicit tho). Take care everyone ❤️❤️

Someone shared this link on Twitter/X and as I am listening to it I am finding it very helpful. It's been several years since I have left the church where I was struggling with subtle spiritual abuse. As I have read and studied this extensively since then I am surprised when a video touches me like this one did. Around the 14 minute mark Michael starts to describe the exact feelings I had, with the feeling of my voice being silenced and the moving target where I felt like I couldn't quite figure out how to even navigate the church culture we were in. How could I really be included there? The truth is, we couldn't. The pastor, who managed to convince the entire church for the most part that he was just one part of the "eldership team" but in fact was far more the central figure, had decided to keep us from being included. It was really as simple as that. But I still trusted him, until we had no choice but to leave.

Oh, and the part towards the beginning where he encourages those who are questioning if they are in a spiritually abusive church to not go to their leaders is spot on! Of course the leaders never think they are being abusive. They may not even be able to see their own narcissistic tendencies. And the "honor culture" perpetuates that submitting to the elders is the epitome of "humility" so anyone who dares to question them is in their minds the problem. They can't see the ways they have silenced and controlled the flock. It's sad, yet seems so incredibly common.

Here's the video if anyone is interested:

https://youtu.be/UA2yUMm8p80?si=zwOU3F-Sxhh27hAa

Hi guys I can provide more details later...

but I just want to say that being manipulated, silenced, cause like a crack on our mind.

many times when I was from this kind of cult (evangelical) that was member I felt dizzy, mostly when people blamed and firebacked on me when I complain about something. this turn our chain value upside down and starts to break your inner self in a thousand pieces, after that, they collect your pieces and reassemble you as they NEED you to be. (To serve as slave). And thats nothing to do with be a real christian.

.

sometimes I think I'll implode.

So many rage inside.

Need to forgive (and forget) more...

Thanks..

There is a girl whose very nice to me, and has mental health issues which means she's not had a job in a while. My ex said she looks like a loser who hasn't done well in life and comes to church to get attention. Anyway said ex was a lying narcissist who turned out to be an abusive alcoholic who was allowed to preach in church, she knows what he said about her, and she argued with me that he has grown and matured in life and when I asked for evidence it sounds like he's gotten worse over time.

When I bring up that the church has issues with predators, and that there's an inquisition into the fact that it has a toxic culture and it poisons people to be part of it, she still tries to harp on that I should go to church. She's even brought up that she's been hurt by church, and I'm unable to explain to her, there's a difference between reacting out of hurt feelings and choosing to avoid toxicity and abuse.

Any advice on how to deal with her? She is kinda codependent and one of the reasons I've left that church is I've noticed people there still act and live like children or only have the capacity to think like children at an advanced age. They don't have any signs of maturity.

Cults, Meditation, Drugs and Psychosis Story at a Glance:

•Spiritual practices are a double edged sword. On one hand one’s faith can be profoundly beneficial to their life, but on the other, there is a longstanding problem of spiritual practitioners becoming permanently damaged from their practices (e.g., psychosis).

•Much of this results from spiritual “teachers” promoting practices which give the participant a spiritual high (and hence makes them a loyal customer) rather than the safe and effective practices which are harder to monetize.

•One of the primary reasons cults form is because individuals (especially those in a vulnerable place) are highly susceptible to spiritual manipulation and rarely recognize when one of the common spiritual scams is pushed upon them.

•This article will discuss how spiritual manipulation contrasts with conventional forms of mind control, critical points to understand when attempting to rescue someone from a cult, ways to recognize dangerous spiritual practices, and the overlap between spiritual psychosis and drug induced (e.g., via psychedelics) psychosis.

I've suffered from target extreme brainwashing/spiritual abuse and I found the clarity very empowering. Too often literature or documentaries on the subject are cathartic but not at all empowering.

https://www.midwesterndoctor.com/p/cults-meditation-drugs-and-psychosis

https://archive.is/xlPqd non paywalled link

I would appreciate some thoughts on something I experienced a few years ago at a small independent Christian church assembly in Ohio.

In the Spring 2021 my marriage was in jeopardy due to the severe lack of marital intimacy. This had been going on for years – my then-wife always had an excuse. When I finally had enough, I gave her an ultimatum: "if you cannot be comfortable with normal marital intimacy, then you cannot be my wife." This is unacceptable, and either this changes, or I'm done. She later agreed to marital counseling, so I held out hope that there might be some way to salvage the marriage.

This is how I handled my rocky marriage with the leadership at my then-church assembly in an email:

​

Plan A is to work through the issues in marital counseling to reach a satisfactory resolution. This would mean the intimacy level with my wife is at an acceptable level and where she is not imposing unreasonable constraints on sexual intercourse - and where I'm not receiving excuses for not fulfilling her marital vows.

Now I'm going to discuss Plan B as this may have implications regarding my relationship with this church assembly. If Plan A proves to be unviable, then Plan B is to dissolve the marriage and then to date and eventually marry a replacement. I don't like Plan B - it exists only as a last resort.

Now the implications arise here because some church assemblies and Christian organization hold that I would not be allowed to do this. They hold that a man in this situation has two choices: either continue to tolerate neglect and/or a sexless marriage or divorce and be condemned to celibacy for the rest of his days. This teaching is wrong and deeply offensive. It is based on a gross misapplication of Scripture.

A married man who sees a young Instagram hottie and divorces his present wife on some flimsy pretext for license to be with said Instagram hottie is engaging in disgusting and immoral behavior. That man deserves to be branded an adulterer, not the man who divorces and remarries after exhausting all reasonable remedies because he refuses to continue to be the victim of repeated neglect. Where is the justice in that?

​

I asked two members of the Church leadership if there was anything in my position that would render me unsuitable for continued association at this assembly in the event Plan A is a failure. They both assured me that it would not. Four months later I informed them that my then-wife decided she wanted out of the marriage and that I accepted her decision and was moving on. They placed me under Church disciplinary proceedings because of this. They lied to me!

When I confronted them with the email and other correspondence showing their earlier assurances, they were evasive - they refused to explain their earlier words. I ended my association with that assembly – my excommunication was already imminent anyway. Due to this and the shaming I got from other Christians for refusing to stay in a sexless marriage, I have not had a regular place of worship since. I nearly said that I would no longer associate with other Christians because of this!

Some questions I have:

If the Church leadership felt this way about people getting a divorce, why couldn't they have been honest about it when I asked? I was very clear on what I was going to do if Plan A was a bust. If they were more truthful, at least I could have spared them the trouble by leaving on my own accord. I even offered to do just that.

I was extremely adamant from the start that I do not have to put up with a sexless marriage and that I refuse to accept any doctrine that claimed otherwise. Did the church leadership seriously expect to change my mind?

Is this sort of thing common in small Christian church assemblies? I'm not against church discipline per se, but the manner in which this was handled was highly unethical.

My husband and I just finished watching this series on Amazon Prime and it's truly painful to watch, but actually helpful for those who are looking for resources on what spiritual abuse looks like.

My husband's parents actually attended Jim Jones' church a few times. It's chilling thinking that if they hadn't seen red flags they could have stayed in that church and I may have never met my husband! It's easy to sit on our comfortable couch and ponder how a person could go along with the cult, but until we have sat under a charismatic leader who we love, respect, and have grown to trust, it's puzzling. But there's truly a desire in most of us to belong and be a part of something bigger than ourselves. Cults often prey on that need.

And the story of Flora Jessop nad the FLDS was really hard to watch. But I found myself literally jumping up and saying, "YES" and "She's a hero!" Because that little girl found her voice and against all odds she spoke out against the rampant abuse all around her! What an incredible story! For those who have been in situations where our voices have been silenced, it takes a heroic effort to speak when no one seems to believe, or care, or adds further abuse for daring to speak out. To see that she was instrumental in bringing down Warren Jeffs is incredible! I think her voice is the epitome of what a truly prophetic voice is all about too.

Here's a link for those who are insterested: https://www.amazon.com/Escaping-Evil-Life-Cult-Season/dp/B00BS4L1QE

So I’ve got a brother and a family that constantly pushes me into the limelight. What I mean by this is that often times the practices and activities I wish other people didn’t know about me are what my family pushes me to make known to every person in our life. Often times I catch my brother copying the things I like to do in secret. When other people ask us if we like “the activity/practice” my brother denies it and I am left with the blame or negative intent. What can I do in this situation?

https://www.facebook.com/share/i6C5fARhjP4yDbHY/?mibextid=WC7FNe

The above link is to my best friends Facebook post where she is sharing her story about sexual abuse from her formal youth pastor. She has been working with Alabama state representatives on this bill and it is finally being introduced to the committee.

On Wednesday, February 14th, 2024 the bill (HB125) is being introduced to the committee. If HB125 passes out of committee, it will then go to the house calendar for a vote of the body!

This bill can provide hope and protection for those that are at the hands of abusers within the church. The passing of this bill would CHANGE and hold church personnel accountable for using their power to prey on the vulnerable. There’s a law in place for educators… why not pastors?

Sexual predators should not be allowed to hide behind the walls of our churches knowing that they will not be held accountable for their crimes. It is so important that we make our voices heard to protect the children of our state!