Hi all! Bought the Garmin Astro 320 on fb marketplace about 2 years ago for our rambunctious pittie who likes to run. We have now moved from Vermont to the Eastern Sierra of California. Do I understand correctly that we now need a West topo US 24k? Or is there a way to download the West map onto our existing card? If I need to get a new one, I have a Northeast one on offer if anyone needs it! Also if there’s a better sub to post to, please let me know. Thank you!

Our team recently assisted the West Virginia State Police, US Marshals Service and the FBI with a 23 year old cold case of a murdered mother and daughter. Due to vegetation, recent excavation in the area and other factors our dogs were able to alert within 28 feet of where the grave was located. Shown above is K-9 Theo who was one of the two dogs that helped find the grave.

https://www.wvva.com/2024/04/24/raleigh-county-prosecuting-attorney-details-discovery-mother-daughters-remains-beckley-home/#lvfqio97tycjsiztzba

I’m training a cadaver dog, first one! I do have mentors helping but am looking to see what people use for their record keeping. So far I’ve got videos of every session and a google sheet but it feels clunky and it’s tough to track what I’ve done.

So far I’m recording date, weather, the setup as far as interior or exterior and where the hide is set, size of the search area, what I’m finding, the size of what I’m finding, how long it took her to find, and if I get a trained final response. Just typing this out I should also track how long it was set before we went to look for it.

Any tips? Setups you have to work? Things you recommend I record?

Hi all,

Not sure if this is the right spot to ask, but couldn't find an answer anywhere else.

I'm looking at buying the Garmin Astro 900 collar, but not the hand held device with it. Does it work well using the app on your phone with it, or is it highly recommended to get the handheld as well?

Also might as well ask, are there any better options for GPS collars? I work in the bush and I am out of cell service often, so looking for something reliable.

Thanks

Hi everyone! I've been a part of my local SAR team for over two years now and I'm interested in getting a puppy to train for tracking within the next year or two. I'm excited for this but also worried about how I'm going to manage a puppy, much less a working breed, at a job that requires me to be gone 8+ hours a day, 5 days a week.

What do you guys do for work? How do you balance your work and dog training schedules? I'm interested in getting a remote work (or at least hybrid) job but I don't have any experience in office jobs.

I have an older pit mix that is very smart and eager to please. She can at times have a timid personality but I almost think having a job to focus on would get her out of her shell, she has come a long way already from when she was a puppy. She has basic obedience training, working on CGC (aforementioned anxiety makes the stranger holding the lead part hard), and we do a lot of focused play and she is able to engage even in more distracting areas. The thing is that she is 6 and everything I see for SAR talks about puppies. Is it worth trying to see if she’s a good fit? I’m interested in doing SAR myself too, but I think it would be really nice if we could do it together.

TLDR: I’m interested in doing SAR myself but would love to be able to do it with my dog. She is 6 and I’m unsure if that’s too old to start that work.

I have been told by a SAR team from my state, Arkansas, that it is impossible for dogs to search and locate other dogs because dogs don't have a "scent to follow like humans do", and I have a feeling that he was either lying or he just isn't very informed about SAR dogs. I have not been able to find anything online about this, but I just find it so hard to believe that dogs are incapable of searching for their own kind. After all, aren't dogs way more smelly than humans? Don't their bodies release pheromones and other BO in their sweat and feces that allows them to communicate to other dogs the status of their fertility and whatnot? I mean if anything wouldn't they find it easier to find other dogs more than any other animal? They are biologically wired to sniff out other dogs and their scents for various reasons as it is. Please help me guys. For some reason it is impossible to find any SAR teams that can do this anywhere on google.

I need your help guys. Please tell me if it is in fact possible. Any information no matter how small will help. Also, any information or names of SAR teams that are trained to find lost pets, even if they are many states away from me will be so immensely appreciated.

I've searched all over my state for a SAR team that could help me find my lost dog to no avail. Riddick was my life, my dog soulmate, I treated him and talked to him as if he was my child in such a nurturing way and he was extremely attached to me and protective of me. He was the most intelligent dog I've ever known and he'd have so many emotions, he was the most adventurous dog and loved to befriend all other dogs. He was a small 16 lb Poodle-Terrier, but he didn't know his size, always the pack leader and he could dominate even the largest and toughest dogs. He was truly a unique and special little rascal. I worry about him and miss him soo much. I fear what's happened to him because I live in a not so great neighborhood where neighbors neglect their dogs, starve them or abuse them. It haunts me not knowing who has him and what they might be doing to him. If he died, I would at least be able to put my mind at ease that he is in peace now, but not knowing kills me.

Hi! I'm working hard on preparing my dog to track lost pet cats. I'm following Kat's Albrecht's method. Unfortunately, I can't participate in her courses, and I'm left with some questions.

With mantrailing, it's quite easy to set up a fake trail at the end of the failed search to make sure the dog gets a win and something to keep the motivation up.

If you have a pet tracking dog, how do you handle this issue? Do you experience loss of motivation in your dog if he doesn't succeed every time (and I know he won't)? Do you lay out fake trails for him using a "training" animal every time? Other solution?

I'd appreciate your input!

I was Military Police in the Marine Corps, I have ptsd bc some of the things I experienced I do not have any physical disabilities. I do NOT have a service dog but do qualify for one. That isn’t my goal.

My question is can a dog be an EFFECTIVE search dog and also be a service dog?

What to do with your puppy to prepare for a job in search and rescue.

Many people interested in Search and Rescue (SAR) already have a dog in mind when starting to think about joining a SAR team. One of the frequently asked questions is what they should be doing with their dog while the make contacts, apply for a team and go through the membership process unique to each team. There are many foundations that people can start with prior to joining a team that will make the search training much quicker in the long run.

Engagement and play!

Why is engagement and play important: Play is the foundation of reward for our search dogs, “Odor Pays” is an important concept for us in training our dogs for having dogs driven to hunt and indicate.

Work on getting your dog to focus and engage with you and other people for play. There are many great resources out there for building Engagement and Play, FENZI sports dog academy has a self study class on building this.

Having a dog who is willing to engage and play in many different situations such as a busy park, in a dog friendly store, in the wilderness will ensure that your dog can focus in both distracting and stressful environments

Marker Training!

Marker training, also known as clicker training is a method of being able to capture correct behaviors with a word or sound that creates very clear communication with your dog on what behavior will get them paid.

Marker training will help you communicate with your dog as your search training progresses, it will allow you to mark when your dog is doing a correct behavior at a long distance

Basic obedience and Recall

Recall is super important with our search dogs, it allows us to control how far they range out, bringing them in for a safety standpoint

Basic obedience will increase the communication with you and your dog, many teams may require a CGC or obedience portion of their certifications.

CGC!

As stated before many teams require a CGC prior or during training, you might as well take a class and get it over with

Directional! Depending on what type of search you are going to do, directional and other commands can be very helpful.
i. Go out: Pushing the dog away from you

ii. Come in: Brining the dog closer to you without a formal “Come”

iii.     Go Left, Go Right

iv. Go in, Go out

v.     Go Up, Go down

Here are some things to stay away from when waiting for your new team.

Scentwork /Nosework

-While this might seem like a complementary sport for your dog to participate in while you wait, many teams will instantly be turned off from a dog who has been taught that any odor other than human has a high reward value. This can be especially important for Forensic and Crime scene dogs who might be called in to court one day.

Bitework and protection sports: While bitework is 100% all about control in drive, tug and play most teams will either have a policy against it or have little to no understanding of the mechanics of the sport and are afraid of an unintentional bite.

Starting your own training with runaways, human remains, trailing

Search and rescue has a very specific set of step in training and most teams would rather start with a blank slate rather then try and untrain or fill in gaps to the training you have started. Unless you are working with someone on the team and they are mentoring you, just leave it be and work on the foundations!

My German Shepherd and I validated with the RCMP PDS at the end of July, and we are now one of ~20 active teams with the BC Search Dog Association!

Hey there! I just made my local SAR team and am starting training. The long term, three year plan, is to learn all I can from the ground search team and then join the dog team. I’ve currently got a pet dog that I’m training in scent detection for some local competitions but I expect to start from scratch with a puppy once I make the dog team. While I’m learning ground searching what should I be learning about detection and canine behavior to help me be prepared for a SAR dog? Thanks!

HI!I have been working with a SAR team for a year and with their K9 team weekly for several months. I've wanted to train a SAR dog for almost 10 years and am now at the point where I'm ready to commit the time and effort to train one. I am hoping to train an air-scenting dog. I've narrowed down my top choices in dog breeds to a Brittany "spaniel" or a Novia Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever. The Brittany has been at the top of my list but I'm getting worried that their extreme prey drive might make it difficult to teach a reliable recall in a wilderness setting. I also like the fact that the Tollers don't require QUITE as much daily exercise that a Brittany requires. A few con's of the Tollers are longer fur, possibly leading to more shedding and the Toller scream (although when I look it up on youtube it doesn't seem to really bother me. Does anyone have personal experience with this?)I would love any input you might have! Also if you have any other suggestions for medium size dogs I would be interested in those as well. Thanks!

Hi all,

Does anyone here have an use the Garmin Astro GPS device? As near as I can tell it's pretty much a standard handheld wilderness GPS device (similar to their 64 series), with a dog collar that transmits GPS data back to the handheld so you can track your dog along with yourself.

I'm replacing my (stolen) Garmin 64 series GPS, and thought it might be interesting and useful to have the ability to track my dog as he's on a search - hence me looking at the Astro. For anyone who has an Astro or knows about the Astro:

-is the handheld Astro GPS unit basically a 64 series (with the added functionality to track the dog), or does the handheld Astro GPS unit have less functionality for human wilderness GPS needs? -how's the battery on both handheld GPS and dog collar unit? -what distance does the dog collar operate at practically speaking? I know they say up to 5 miles/8kilometers, but surely that's line of sight no obstructions. In typical mountain terrain, what's the likely max distance before my dog would get out of range?

• What is your dogs chosen TRI?

• Did you choose it, or did your dog?

• Has it changed/morphed over time?

• What is your method for teaching it? Would you do anything different with your next dog?

• Do you have different TFI for live vs cad?

• What's the most interesting TFI you have seen?

FAQ: The best breed for SAR

Tagging /u/fetch-is-life and /u/court67 for their input as well!

If you ask any group of K9 handlers what the best breed for SAR is, you are going to receive many different, very biased answers: Shepherds, Collies, Labs, Goldens, Bloodhounds! All these breeds have a few things in common and that is what makes the foundations of a good SAR candidate. These foundations are genetic drive (motivation), instinct, biddability and athleticism. No matter what the breed, they are all (generally) confined to these inherent genetic traits and despite how much someone works, wants and tries to make a SAR dog, some breeds are simply just easier to turn into a mission ready partner than others. In this post I will do my best to break down the components of a good SAR dog, how to find a good breed for you, and how to choose the breeder and the puppy for your new partner.

What makes a good SAR dog:

Drive: High Class K9s has a great explanation on drive “The internal mechanism that push the dog into taking specific action or to behave in a certain way Drive is the energy that stimulates a dog to act instinctively” Search and Rescue is all about finding the right drives to work with you to accomplish a goal.

Each breed has its own combination of drives and thresholds, and in many different combinations you can find in a SAR dog. Prey drive is the basis of a search dog. From prey drive we get hunt, chase and play. Breeds bred to hunt alongside a person, working in tandem to find their quarry make excellent Area Search dogs. Dogs bred to follow animal odor, tree them and bay make excellent on leash tracking and trailing dogs. Dogs who have high play drive and will do anything for the reward of a game of tug or fetch can be taught almost anything.

Hunt instinct whether ground or air scenting is not only the desire to find the prey, but how long and hard they will work to do it. A dog with high hunt drive will have the ability to keep searching, despite terrain, weather and length of the search. A good SAR dog will stay motivated to keep searching as long as the handler is willing to work.
Play drive is the reward for all the hard work the dog has put into the search. Every dog needs a pay off for the job well done, some dogs do wonderful on a food reward, but it much easier to work with a dog who will do anything for a good game of tug or fetch.

Biddability:

Biddability is the willingness and desire of a dog to work and follow commands of their handler. Some breeds are highly in-tune with their handler, listening for every command and direction, while others are purely focused on the hunt. Somewhere in between is the perfect search dogs. The beginning stages and most of the fine tuning of a search dog require a high level of handler k9 communication and a dog that blows off your commands can be disastrous.

Athleticism:

A search dog has to be physically capable of the work you will require of them. It is not uncommon for an area search dog to run 10 or more miles in a search, while a cadaver dog might need the mental stamina to look for minute odor sources in large areas. I am bunching in genetic health here was well, a dog from good bloodlines whose ancestors have been tested for inherent genetic diseases like hip and elbow dysplasia, or heart and eye conditions is going to stack odds in your favor for a long lived, capable working dog.

A good SAR dog is a mix of drive and biddability, drive can be difficult to work with if the dogs drive overwhelms their biddability to the point of blowing off commands or running off to chase game, birds, butterflies. On the other hand a dog whose biddability is higher then their desire to get their toy above all else can easily be called off target odor, or be so worried about their handler they are unable to effectively search.

A bit on breeds:

Breed matters! A lab is bred to hunt, a hound is bred to track and herding breeds are bred to bring things together, working breeds are bred to do a task for their handler! The best way to learn what breed best fits you and your style of searching and training is to work with a team! Spending the time to observe other handlers and their partnership with their dog is the best way to learn what do you and don’t like about certain aspects of each breed. If you like a breed to stick close and be attentive to their handler, a herding or working breed might be best for you. If you’d rather not see your dog until they come in for the trained final response a Sporting breed might be better suited. If you’d like a single focused tracking dog, a hound is hard to beat, if you don’t mind it!

Each breed trains differently too! If you want a dog who can handle many different repetitions and changes often I have found that sporting breeds are very hardy and are game for changing the rules. A herding breed might be more sensitive to repetition and mistakes, but are quicker to solidify the rules.

Finding a breeder

So you have decided on a breed, now what? First step is research! Figure out where other handlers are sourcing their mission ready dogs from! Some breeders and kennels are known for producing many working search and rescue dogs! If you like the lab on your team, and the breeder has a litter planned of similar dogs, visit with them!

If you do decide to go with a breeder, here are my personal minimums for me to consider purchasing a puppy from them:

1. All dogs in the breeding program must be health tested in accordance to the Parent Breed Club code of ethics, here is an example of the testing required by Labradors If the breeder does not follow the testing protocol they are not worth buying a dog from. You want a long-lived healthy dog, and there are enough breeders in the world to find one who does them all!

2. Breeder must be active in working or titling their dogs. You want a dog who comes from parents who have proven their drive, instinct, biddability and athleticism. I don’t necessarily think that they need to come from working SAR parents, but finding a Malinois breeder who has produced SAR dogs from their Agility or Obedience titled dogs is not difficult.

3. Breeder must be willing to communicate with you! A good breeder is a 24/7/365 support system for you and your dog, I can not tell you how many times in the first year I called my dogs breeder to ask training and drive questions! They have a vast insight to how their bloodlines think and how they work. Use their support and knowledge!

Picking a puppy:

So the litter is here, the pups are moving about, now how do you choose the right one for you? If you have done the right homework with finding a good breeder, most of the challenge of picking which wiggly puppy to take home will fall to them! If the have produced SAR dog before or have working dogs themselves they already know what to look for in a puppy, adventurous, stable temperament, and bold!

If the breeder has no experience in choosing working homes for their puppies, or lets owners choose their puppies (RED FLAG ALERT, a good breeder takes your wants into consideration, but chooses puppies for owners based on the owners needs, a show quality dog for the show handler, a goofy pet for the pet owner, and the working puppy for the working home!) use the resources around you to help you choose. Bring in other more experienced handlers who have evaluated puppies for working homes before.

For example, my dog’s breeder was 500 miles away from me, and I was unable to visit the litter at all! The breeder had a puppy evaluation party with none of the perspective owners present! She brought in an AKC breed judge to look for show prospects, hunting dog trainers to look for hunting puppies and a local SAR handler to choose the right puppy for me! In the end the litter was very consistent and I could have ended up with 9/10 of the puppies and had a mission ready dog. The SAR handler picked the two best males suited for me and it was a coin toss as to which would be mine. A few days later and my little guy was ripping up all the new toys I brought him!

I’m more so curious to see the answers! Thought it was an interesting question.

If you have a loved one that goes missing, and after looking on your own you turn up with nothing, would you use your SAR dog to find them? If the SAR dog knows the person well, would that be a problem?

Thanks.

Here is a quick summary of how to become involved with Search and Rescue

*****

Step 1: Research!

• Find out who is in charge of search and rescue (SAR) in your area, in the United States SAR generally falls under the sheriffs office responsibilities. A quick google search of your state and county + search and rescue should point you in the right direction.
  • Some areas have regional units, or large teams not directly connected to the county structure.

Step 2: Connecting and networking

• Many teams will have a generic "Contact Us" link on their website, if you are having trouble making contact with a real person, contact the sheriffs office and ask them for a direct phone number.
• Many units will have regular meeting nights posted on their website, if it is posted on the website then it is an open meeting and generally welcoming of perspective members.
• Some teams have direct team application links to fill out prior to attending meetings, look carefully at the website and see if this is the case.
• Facebook can be a great resource for finding teams too, there are many public groups where you can ask for directions to the nearest team.

Step 3: Make some meetings!

• SAR is a very time consuming volunteer organization, making time to go to meetings is important, not only do you get an idea of the unit structure, organization and team culture, you make more connections.

Step 5: Jump through their hoops

• Many teams have set protocol for joining, this might include taking FEMA classes (linked in our sidebar!) having a back ground check, going through an orientation night, and training classes. All these hoops are in place for a reason and help create a cohesive team with baseline training.

Step 6: Bring on the specialty teams!

• There are so many different specialty teams that a unit might have available, Dirt Bike teams, water rescue and dive teams, technical rescue, ATV/UTV, horse teams and last and best the K9 Team! It is highly suggested that when you first join a unit you go to a few different team trainings and figure out where you best fit. Many of these teams might have their own hoops that you need to jump through before being deployed with them, an off highway vehicle certification, technical ropes and climbing classes or a set number of training you need to make.

*****

K9 Specifics!

Step 1: Make yourself known to the K9 team!

• Come introduce yourself at a meeting, pull one of the handlers aside for a chat!

Step 2: Get out there!

• Attend some trainings, without ever mentioning your super cool new puppy! Many SAR teams want to know that you have an interest in SAR beyond "a job for your dog" and that you are willing to learn how to hide, reward, navigate and communicate while on trainings and on missions.
  • My current team requires 4 months of attendance prior to puppy evaluations, this gives both parties a chance to see if SAR is something you are really interested in.

Step 3: Learn the application process

• Figure out what the K9 team standards are for both perspective k9 and handler, some teams require a temperament test and evaluation of a dog or puppy before you are allowed to start training, while others can be very lax.

Step 4: Never stop learning and networking!

• So you and your pup have been accepted onto the K9 team, Congratulations ! Education and networking are your best friends, figure out counties near you that have k9 teams, network and attend trainings as allowed. Keep active on the seminars and training lists, attend as many as possible.
  • There are many times where you might just need a different view point then those on your team to help you through a plateau.

No dog? No problem:

• You are our favorite person who wants to be involved in the k9 team! You get to learn all the basics about searching and training without fumbling through it with your first dog, while trying to learn all that you need to as well. You will be a great asset to the team if you can figure out what makes each dog go crazy for their toy, read k9 body language, learn how to navigate. All these things are massively important to handlers, as it allows us to watch our dog and leave the paperwork to you!
• This also allows you to see what sort of dog you want to work, a fun loving goofy lab or a serious workaholic malinois? Every breed and type works differently and what you might like in a search dog will vary from someone else. You might have a pet labrador at home, but really enjoy working with the german shepherds! This gives you the opportunity to see what is needed in a SAR k9 and what you want to work with.

Please feel free to ask questions in this post!

Hi there!

I have several questions for the community:

1. I’m looking into possibly getting a SAR dog and start my training.

I don’t currently have a dog (though I have extensive training with them and personal experience) and wanted to get more information before getting one for SAR. Breed suggestions? Should I assist with a team before getting one of my own?

2. Do most teams do their own training and certification? Is this training based off of books?Are there training courses that you suggest?

3. Book suggestions for where to start in this process?

4. I understand that there are several different types of search dogs (cadaver, live scent, trailing) which one is better to start with? Is there a type that is more utilized?

5. The research I have done, I’ve seen most SAR is volunteer based. Are there paid positions available?

Thanks and hope to hear from you soon!

Hi all,

I’m just wondering what everyone is using for dog food / what people recommend for a working dog / search dog. (For a 2 year old German Shepard in my case).

-Ryan

My team is feelinf some growing pains, in the past 1.5 years we have doubled the number of working dogs and handlers, without clear guidelines for training orginization.

Currently every team member pairs up to plan a training in the current quarter, some planners are excellent, picking out areas, working on scenarios, others send out an email with the location and make it up on the fly, leaving a lot of handlers not getting what they need.

I am trying to revamp the guidelines for planning and am open to hearing how other teams run their trainings. We have 2 teams getting ready for certification (160 acre problems) 4 certified area dogs who request large areas, 3 crime scene dogs getting ready for their certification and 3 certified cadaver dogs.

Thoughts?

***Sorry, correction. “Is your dogs breed common on your team?” is what I meant to ask. I heard getting a breed your team is familiar with is very important.

And is there a specific dog breed you see thriving at SAR?

I'd like to get a bunch of different formats of training logs together, for both new handlers, established handlers who don't like their current training logs. So if you have an electronic version and would like to share, please post a link!

Cad training

live training

I see that the formatting got a little screwy when I published these, but if you want a printable copy, send me a PM with your email and I will send it to you.

Please help post links and suggestions here please!