Is there anything wrong with "converting" to triads/functional harmony? For example in rule of the octave 2,5 and 7 always take either V or V7. This is a lot easier than remembering 643, 53, 653, 63. Or if i'm reading figures 63 for example is the triad of the note one third below the bass, which is a lot easier than thinking about the individual intervals.

What the title says. Furno states that the keys of C,D and E are played in first position, F,G and A in third position and B in second position. Why? Is it just to put all of them in a similar range, or is there some deeper reason?

https://www.reddit.com/r/counterpoint/s/nodpmYQoFM

Come join us for our species counterpoint workshop; we'll be working through Knud Jeppeson's counterpoint book with a species approach, first in 2 voices, then possibly in 3 or more voices in the future!

This isn't strictly a question about partimento proper, but the issue itself is relevant there as well.

Neumann in his book on ornamentation tends to argue with "unpleasant fifths", which would be the result of, for example, playing a grace note on the beat, not before it. I'm aware of the taboo of parallel fifths, but how strong was it for any open fifth?

I have watched and practiced Richardus Cochlearius's playlist of the Handel exercises for princes Anne, but what now? what videos should i do?

I want to ask my teacher if she can help me learn this. She's proficient in renaissance and baroque repertoire and in continuo accompaniment. but never heard of partimenti as stand alone pieces.

I'm thinking of showing her realizations, since the manuals usually only include the bass voice, preferably in score format, and maybe also some blanc et noir or demeyere videos. Thanks for the help!

Today, in going back and forth between some old Italian manuscripts, I finally found a sensible explanation for the 'no parallel fifths' or 'no parallel octaves' guidance one so often hears. The result gives a rationale, a more detailed rule, and an explanation for how to apply the rule and its exceptions that is better than anything I have read previously or had a music teacher explain.

So on the off chance it helps others, and because it is relevant to making choices in basso continuo or partimenti realizations, here is the deal as I understand it:

What is a rule:

I can't say how many times, I've heard someone analyze a piece of classical music and say 'oh look, there are parallel fifths in this piece by Bach'. Almost always, people jump in with one of two hot takes: either 'well that proves the rule is nonsense', or 'looks like Bach messed up'. Well no, and also, almost definitely no. ;-)

A rule is not an inviolable law, it is a standard, a template, or a way of measuring what normal looks like. It's not what you must do, it's just what is typical, sensible, a good jumping off point, and what you will commonly actually do. You know, as a rule.

Finding that somebody 'violated the rule' in practice proves nothing at all, and it turns out the complete version of the rule contains exceptions.

Why the rule:

I've come across versions of the 'no parallel fifths' prohibition numerous times, but rarely with any good explanation for why it even exists. After all parallel fifths or octaves *do not* sound bad. Chant, organum, your favorite power chord rock ballad, most choral music and many cadence patterns are chock full of them. So what is there to be concerned about?

I've heard some pretty unconvincing reasons given, i.e. because it is too simple, because it is sort of low-brow and obvious and therefore something to be avoided, etc. The nearest thing to a good reason I had heard was that it made it somewhat more difficult to distinguish vocal lines.

Well, turns out this rule applies only to polyphonic music employing counterpoint (multiple overlapping melodic lines), and even then not in all cases. Much like rules about generally avoiding crossing vocal lines when singing simple harmony, it exists in part for much the same reason; so that the listeners are not confused when trying to follow multiple lines simultaneously.

However, there is more to it - the specific reason is because, as you likely know, every note contains not only its fundamental but a series of other overtones, of which the fifth is far and away the loudest/most discernable. The remaining overtones are so faint that while their relative dynamics levels join together to define the timbre of an instrument, they are individually so quiet that numerous tests show that people cannot even identify if they are present or missing. Not so with the fifth however. It is quite audible.

In fact, the relationship between the tonic (fundamental) and its most distinguishing overtone (dominant) is the most crucial thing necessary for defining and maintaining a certainty about where the tonal center of the moment is in tonal music (just as the beating of two pulses per tonic cycle against three pulses from the dominant in the same period, is the underlying basis for much of rhythm).

So the primary reason for the rule is simply that when a pair of notes move in parallel, and each note contains the most distinguishing overtone of the other, either as its own fundamental or as the same overtone, or where one note could be the fundamental that produces the other, it can be the case that one confuses the tonic and the dominant and loses track of the tonal center as a result. This, is what the rule is trying to avoid.

The exact rule:

The more exact rule is "no consecutive parallel perfect consonances". No parallel fifths, or no parallel octaves are just subsets of this rule. The rule is actually more strict in that it also prohibits any version of this that involves compound intervals (no parallel twelfths, no consecutive unisons, etc) for example, and even throws shade on an interval of an octave moving to an interval of octave and a fifth. All of this follows directly from the overtone explanation given above.

The exceptions to the rule:

Turns out, though, that in the presence of additional information, generally provided by other voices, it can be the case that the potential for losing track of the tonal center goes way, way down. So if these conditions pertain, the rule does not apply.

On limited review, I find that these conditions appear to explain most instances where 'parallel fifths' exist in the output of skilled composers or why they are commonly tolerated in situations such as the 'choral fifth' in which two internal voices in multi-part arrangements do in fact move together in parallel.

Here are the three conditions that must be validated to see if an exception applies:

1. are the parallel consonances in interior voices?

2. is the parallel movement downward?

3. are the top two voices in the texture in close harmony (no intervening triad tones)?

If any TWO of these three conditions are true, you are in no danger of having your listeners lose track of the current tonality and you are at liberty to ignore the rule entirely.

Hope this is helpful. I am mostly self-taught so I apologize if this is well known in some circles or those with a certain music education background. Also, if you think otherwise or can throw some additional light, please do. I'm more interested in learning than in being right. But I do think this is a better explanation than I have come across before, and I've looked pretty hard.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Cello/comments/1e69m3q/improvisation_on_fenaroli_i_2/

Not quite there yet, but trying is fun enough already!

https://musescore.com/user/5166501/scores/19755082

the most basic stuff.

This feels like the start of a long journey, I'm struggling with the basics to get my fingers going. Guess it's a matter of achieving small goals, otherwise frustration makes you want to stop. Writing it down is a way of progressing, right?

Check out this beautiful piece I just discovered, mixing classical piano and synths: Jasmin, by the French pianist Chloé Antoniotti 🎹

https://open.spotify.com/track/0ESRDZCHAglCqoEn2PorOQ?si=239cbe90e0634215

While I understand the merits of having the grand staff, ultimately I think even now in the year 2024 we should still be able to read the old clefs. Though there are more difficulties, the merits overweigh the downsides and they can help you become a more flexible musician.

When Bach wrote his Art of the Fugue, he did not use modern keyboard notation. He used open score, which is when you have an individual staff for each voice or instrument. A 4 voice fugue in Art of the Fugue would be a Soprano, Alto, Tenor, and Bass clef typically. Scholars thought for a while that Bach intended for the Art of the Fugue to be purely "mental" music, but in fact it is perfectly playable on a harpsichord, and Bach was following an older tradition, harkening back to the days of Renaissance polyphony, where keyboard music was written in open score, just like the vocal music it imitated in its early days.

1. It helps you transpose easily and reliably. Say you have a melody in C minor, treble clef. You want to transpose it to A minor. First observe that A is a 3rd below C. Next observe that A soprano clef is a 3rd below treble clef. Cross out the treble clef of the melody, scribble in a soprano, add 3 naturals to cancel out the 3 flats of C minor, and you're done.

2. It makes your reading more flexible. Being able to read from an open score helps to develop your polyphony in your ears and hands. It makes the voice leading stand out. After some practice with C clefs, you'll start to be able to approach orchestral scores and even eventually sight read them.

3. It makes it so much easier to write out passages by hand. I've seen old manuscripts that have leaping passages, where both hands jump up and down the keyboard, where each jump is notated by a simple clef change. Especially useful for big arpeggiated chords. No ledger lines, easy to read, easy to write, clear as day.

4. It lets you read great music in the composers own hand. Almost all of Bach's keyboard repertoire uses a Soprano clef grand staff for example. Mozart used a tenor clef for his left hand parts in his k.310

Rant over. Let me know what you think, especially if you have learned the C clefs or thought about learning them

Creating music is a beautiful endeavor for any musician.
Yet, studying composition is far from easy.

Juggling melodies, harmony, and stylistic elements is challenging, demanding practice and a solid method.

Traditional exercises often lack musicality and enjoyment.

The Partimento Method revolutionizes composition learning, allowing musicians to freely express creativity.

Say and Play exercises cover all patterns and keys, while Partimentini exercises offer targeted practice.

Explore original Partimenti Numerati and Diminuiti by Fenaroli and Durante to refine technique.

Embark on this magical journey for free today!

Register your account now!

Click here

Creating music is a beautiful endeavor for any musician.
Yet, studying composition is far from easy.

Juggling melodies, harmony, and stylistic elements is challenging, demanding practice and a solid method.

Traditional exercises often lack musicality and enjoyment.

The Partimento Method revolutionizes composition learning, allowing musicians to freely express creativity.

Say and Play exercises cover all patterns and keys, while Partimentini exercises offer targeted practice.

Explore original Partimenti Numerati and Diminuiti by Fenaroli and Durante to refine technique.

Embark on this magical journey for free today!

Register your account now: https://www.bit.ly/join-tpm