Recently I’ve read a lot of posts on this sub from parents being exhausted and tired from entertaining their child, and the guilt that comes from feeling like you can’t for different reasons - I’m here to tell you that you’re doing so well! And you should have zero guilt! But also that you are most certainly doing enough.

I wanted to share some things from my own upbringing that I’ve reflected on, that was probably specific to me being an only child. Things I enjoyed and perks of me having the childhood I did have!
This is mostly directed to parents with slightly older children rather than toddlers, since I honestly don’t remember that time very well. Disclaimer; all of this is anecdotal, specific to my personality and my family constellation and resources! If this post can inspire or help even one person just a little than it is a post worth writing.

• audiobooks.

Omg I absolutely loooved audiobooks as a child! My mom used to get them at a bookstore near her work and bring them home to me. Born in -94 we’re talking tape cassettes that you turn over and listen to both sides to etc. My happy place was coming home after school or during weekends- pop one of those bad boys in the cassette player and pull out my Lego, pencils, or beads (I loved making “””jewelry””” and create and build while listening. I can still, at 31, feel that urge to do exactly that and the calm it gave my mind. This is how I discovered Harry Potter, Narnia and The Hobbit. She also got me some classics like The Secret Garden, The Little Lord and some that I can’t remember now. Side node; I rember the struggle when CD became the norm and I had to try and remember on what “song” I paused. Annoying. Cassettes were OP. Nowadays you get a Bluetooth player, an audiobook subscription and you’re all set! Awesome.

• coming along on errands.

My parents were great in the sense of acknowledging me, doing stuff with me - but also letting me know that some stuff just had to be done and if I’m bored am welcome to come along grocery shopping, changing tires on the car, returning VHS and library books etc. I was a great time just tagging along. Helping mum find one item in the store as an assignment. Being in charge of those self scanner things. Help packing in the stuff in the fridge etc.
My mom liked to go in those car washes where you go in and the car is surrounded by brushes and stuff. She got us both an ice cream cone and we sat and watched it like a cinema lol! On the way home from somewhere she was like; wanna go wash the car??? I was so stoked !!

• dog

When I was 10 we got a lab puppy. She was amazing!!! I’d wanted a dog for as long as I’ve remembered - but they wanted to wait until I was old enough to truly understand the needs of a puppy (don’t disturb when sleeping, let them come to you, how to give treats, react well to puppy biting) etc etc. Wise choice! She was the most amazing dog ever, and we still talk about her. We had her from when I was 10-18 until we unfortunately had to put her down. So she was with me for a lot of my formative years and I felt like I had a great companion! I was tasked with walking her when I came home from school and that was (for me most part) fun! She definitely complemented and completed our family.

• screen time.

I loved watching Disney movies! And Pokémon! So I got to do that. And kids shows in the evening wheel my parents cooked or cleaned up. A lot of us 90s kids did and we turned out great. As long as it’s not used as a replacement of social interaction, other learnings, then I’d say go for it. If it helps you be a better and more chill parent then it’s only beneficial for your child! (My opinion).

What I’m trying to say here is that everyone’s upbringing is different, regardless of siblings. And also that just living live and letting your child come along is “entertainment” and stimulation. Going to school, you have a social life there, you get intellectual stimulation etc. At home it’s fine to chill out. I think being an only gave me some “skills” (If you can call it that!)

• being by myself

I enjoy being by myself. I preferred it for a long time! I was in no rush to get into a relationship with someone that wasn’t a good fit, just to not be alone. I have friends who did just that and while they came out great on the other side, I skipped some of that heartbreak and drama. I felt confident that a partner needed to fit into my life and complement me (while if course I needed to be just that for my partner as well!) now I have a great husband (married since September!).
I can entertain myself and be creative while alone. I have a strong inner compass and can work stuff out on my own and make good decisions.

There is definitely much more stuff that I haven’t thought to mention and I apologize in advance for spelling and grammar mistake (not native English speaker) and for when autocorrect does me dirty. This is already a long post so I’ll end it here.
Finally I want to say that you’re all doing an AMAZING job with your little ones and they are very lucky to have to as parents!

Without a sibling to play with, I’m exhausted (mentally mostly) at the end of every day. Between all the homemaking things and playing with my 4yo, I feel like I need 1-2 hours of the TV on just to GUARANTEE I have an uninterrupted break where I can turn my mind off. Cooking and cleaning are so overstimulating for me that even when we aren’t playing together or even just existing side by side, I feel like I’m really not getting unplug time during the day. I don’t know how to accomplish that other than screens. During the week she goes to preschool for a few hours but honestly even then sometimes we can watch 1-2 hours after school because I’m exhausted. I try to do 30-30 (30 minutes of engagement, 30 minutes independent play etc) and she does play by herself.

Parents with onlies, is this a common struggle? Or do we need to get our shit together and just turn off the TV or find some drugs that will help or something ? I’ve been sipping on monster energy drinks at 4pm to help me through sometimes and it’s not helping my sleep (which is otherwise great).

I know some of us struggle with wondering whether our kids will be happy as onlies (myself included since my mom is an only and had a very rough childhood), and often get annoying comments from people who think they know better than us, so I wanted to share a positive story from today.

My doctor asked me if we were planning on having more children, and I said no. Her response? "That's great! I was an only and I had so much fun!". It was so reassuring to hear that from an adult only child. Thought you all might appreciate it. :)

I have an 11 month old and my partner and I are both leaning on being OAD for the many reasons listed in this group. I had a chat today with a parent who grew up as an only child and she said that she decided to have two kids because she realized that as an adult and as her parents are growing old there is no one to share childhood memories with. Do only people feel this way? I know it's silly to have a second only for that reason but I'm wondering whether my baby will feel that lonely in her thoughts and memories after we pass away... It's silly I know

Title says it all, just wanted to say thank you to this community which has been invaluable as my husband and I made our decision to be OAD. Our triangle family is complete.

One day after finally deciding that I don't want any more children, and telling my husband, I feel calm. It's like a still lake in my mind. No doubts, no fear, no voices in my head with arguments. I've been back and forth on this for a year, while we've tried. One miscarriage. Our son is 3 years old and hyper active. We are starting a process now with psychologists and doctors to see if he has autism. We are so tired. My husband understood that this time I'm serious, and he said that there are people who would be so happy to have one child, and that the most important thing is that we stay together ❤️

I feel like I'm all gathered up in one spot, in the now, in my life, here. No projections into the future, on wishing for another child. Just the three of us. Giving my all here. And it's such a damn good feeling! I'm so surprised by my conviction! And happy 🥰

The title alone has solidified my choice in being OAD. My almost-6-month old wakes up every 30 minutes to 1.5 hours at night to drink formula. My wife and I can no longer handle it (I’m a stay at home dad while searching for a new job, my wife works).

Our pediatrician is useless. The gastro didn’t find anything wrong. The occupational therapist said she doesn’t know what to do. We started solids, it didn’t help.

He was never good at feeding since birth. He had issues and our doctor advised us to up the calories on his formula to 26. He also had reflux from approximately age 2-4 months and was prescribed Famotodine (Pepcid). It seemed to help with the reflux but he still did not feed well until about month 5.

He seems to be doing better now as he’s drinking 550mL of 26 calorie formula. Compared to others his age, it’s not much. Although everyone that sees our baby tells us that he’s big for his age, so I guess that’s a good sign, although we don’t have anything to compare him to lol.

He doesn’t drink milk in the morning when he wakes up at about 6-7 AM. I try to force feed him while he’s getting rocked to sleep during his naps but he will only drink about 10-30mL on average. He drinks mostly at night, before and during bed (7-8 PM). Personally, I think he has something else that’s affecting him, but I don’t have a clue on where to start.

I’m at the point where I will sell my soul to satan to fix his sleep. I tried to sleep train him a few days ago with the 3-5-10 method and he cried so much he threw up so I stopped. We tried taking down his naps from 4 to 2 and he was still high energy and woke up EVEN MORE at night.

Additionally, my wife and I have no help because her family lives south of the border and mine are too busy working, PLUS they have no obligation to help, as it’s ultimately not their responsibility and I don’t blame them.

I’m not asking for any advice, I just want to rant because I fucking hate this, and it pisses me off that everyone apparently has a fucking angel that sleeps through the night. My sister had no issues with all FIVE of her kids, besides one having laryngitis, but that was a feeding issue that was resolved with surgery.

God if you existed, you would’ve answered my wife’s prayers every night where she sometimes cries out of desperation. She believes in you so much. Maybe this is my bad karma for not believing? Maybe its because I did some fucked up things in my past or I’m just a horrible person?

My wife and I often joke about a second kid and say “it can’t be any worse” but we’re solidified on OAD. After this experience, she will have to divorce me if she wants another kid lol. Thanks for reading my ramblings.

I know it gets better, but now that we're deep in the trenches of the newborn stage with a very fussy amazing little girl, man, we're so one and DONE!!!

I don't know how and why people would voluntarily choose to go through this again!!! They say they forget, but I feel like this experience has been printed into my brain for the rest of my days!

Funny thing is that my reason to be OAD before her birth was to not ruin how perfect everything had gone with IVF and pregnancy. There's no such thing a perfect 4 trimester. I've learned that much 😂

I guess I feel fortunate in that I don't have to wrestle with the dilemma of having a 2nd kid, because the thought holds very little appeal to me. I'm happy I have the one, because I wanted the experience of being a dad, and all its attendant joys and challenges, but I'm also certain that a second kid would add very little to my life. Like, I kind of know in my heart that I only have the love and attention for one child. More than that and I would just feel resentful.

Prior to our first, we agreed on two children. He changed his mind to OAD after our only which is valid and I’ve accepted it, but with the vasectomy coming up it’s just getting very real…

I’m going through a rollercoaster of emotions from sadness and mourning, to happy and appreciative.

My little double rainbow only will be turning 1 in the summer and I’m not decided on what to do with her baby clothes. Part of me wants to hold on to the first year of outfits, especially some sentimental ones but I also know it’s not practical to keep everything. I might get a quilt made with some of the special outfits as a keepsake.

There’s another baby on the way this summer in my husbands side of the family and he has kind of hinted that we would pass on a lot of her stuff to them(his sibling’s kid and they won’t know the gender until the baby is born). Every time this topic comes up I can’t help but feel a little irritated, like let her at least wear the stuff she’s wearing before deciding who gets it next!!

What did you do with your only’s baby clothes and am I wrong to feel this way 🥲🤷🏻‍♀️

Edit to add- thank you for sharing your stories! Overwhelmed by the response and I guess validated in my feelings too. I knew this group would understand and have practical responses. Thank you from a sentimental first time mama!!

I recently posted about traveling with young children and received some great advice. We haven’t yet traveled for fun but had to travel this week for a funeral and I’m sooooooo grateful to only have one child. We prefer to drive but it was 10 hours of driving vs a 1 hour flight so we chose the latter. The amount of stuff required for 3 people including child for 5 days is outrageous - plus the child is like another piece of luggage because he’s 16 months and refuses to walk in the airport. I was so anxious on the flight that he’d scream. He did well but it was all hands on deck to keep him happy.

Now, we’re staying with family and literally had to block off a room with the couch and move every item of furniture except the bed into another room so he wouldn’t rip out all of the drawers with death threatening items in them and tip over tables. Adults can skip a meal or wait a little longer but toddlers absolutely cannot so there’s a constant script in my head about where are we going to eat when we’re out and about all day making arrangements. It’s possible with four hands and one child but I absolutely cannot imagine it with more children. The rental car tire went flat and so we had to exchange it and of course that incited a toddler riot because the car stopped moving and then it’s move all the bags and reinstall the car seat while getting screamed at. Snacks, stat! Our triangle family is just right.

To Preface: I am still a fairly New Mom. Being OAD has been crossing my mind a lot lately. So many unexpected stressors have arised with my only LO, so I have been contemplating being OAD lately..

So for fun and just to vent, here's a list of some reasons my partner and I may just be, One and Done. Comment if you can relate!

1. Can't bring myself to do another person's laundry; can barely keep up with my own, why would I want to add to the load (pun intended)?😂😅

2. Having one kid is proven to be easier. You get more breaks!

3. I was, like many well meaning and loving moms, blind sided by all the hard work motherhood really entails and ALL THE RESPONSIBILITY. I love and adore kids, esp. babies, but I am in no position to state that it's been easy for us.

4. I experienced a traumatic birth!

5. OAD leaves a mother or father with less mental load and more time to focus on themselves, which isn't selfish, it just is something many of us crave.

6. Do not have the emotional maturity to deal with being a mediator for siblings who may not get along, which there is a high likelihood of that being the case...

7. Having 1 kid leaves less mess and less noise!

8. My one is more than enough for me to handle

9. We can save money, but having 2 kids, forget it!

10. We can travel more easily with just 1 to worry about.

11. My SO and I have more emotional bandwidth and TIME to focus and nourish our romantic relationship!🥰

12. This one is a good one and one I have personally really thought about: with having just 1 human to look after (not including hubby LOL), there is significantly more space to just be YOU, or get back to you if you are like me and are still in the process of doing that. I have heard that with every kid, a parent, a mother esp., can get pretty lost in their kiddos and then end up neglecting themselves. I personally cannot afford to neglect myself, and don't want to, so idk, I feel having just 1 baby is enough for me, at least for now.

13. As one user commented, "the experience of pregnancy and birth can be pretty harrowing" so yeah, that alone is enough for many of us Mothers to simply have 1 child. Pregnancy and child birth, while being one of the most beautiful experiences in life, can simultaneously be extremely and primally SCARY! I was shaken to my core when I was about to birth my baby girl! I don't know if I want to feel that primal fear ever again!

14. My 1 child really fulfills my heart🩷🩷🩷 I can't imagine having to take any ounce of my time or attention away from my Darling Girl💔💔

Note:* If I do have another, because I really adore kids, it's going to be much later in my life with a significant age gap between my 1st.

Basically, I know my current limits. Anyone else feel me on these things to be possibly OAD?☺️

EDIT: the title should really be “does anyone else think it’s selfish to have a second when your first isn’t old enough to understand” (I don’t think it’s selfish to have multiple kids in general, just to have them when your first is too young to fully grasp why they’re no longer the center of attention)

I come across many posts about parents who are sad that their toddler is having a hard time adjusting to having a sibling, and I can’t help but think that the parents were incredibly selfish to have a second child while their first can’t even comprehend the situation.

I’m not saying it’s inherently selfish to have more than one child, but more specifically, to subject your toddler to such a huge change before they have the ability to understand why they aren’t getting as much attention. It baffles me when I see parents surprised by their first born acting out, crying, clinging, and overall just being an emotional wreck when they bring a new baby home. From a developmental standpoint, toddlers don’t even really have the ability to focus on another person’s perspective. They can’t understand why one day they’re the center of attention and the next, a crying little baby is.

I find it strange anyone would want to put their child through the emotional turmoil having a second seems to cause around this age. It also just seems insane to me considering how HARD toddlers are— big emotions, tantrums and meltdowns, constant supervision, etc.

Is anyone else considering having a second, but only once their first is old enough to understand? I’m definitely on the fence considering my experiences with being pregnant and giving birth, but I can’t imagine doing it all over again with a toddler clinging to my legs…

Post funny things your kid has said this week here!

I am a first time mum with an 11 month year old. I love her and she’s amazing - I had an ok pregnancy and a traumatic birth. I always thought I’d have multiples but after nearly a year of parenting we are not having another.

My question is - why does anybody?! The overstimulation, the worry, the cost, the lack of freedom. Every single aspect of my life is now harder. Sweeter, more loving and more complete yes - but harder.

Am I just broken? Not cut out for this? Do people genuinely have their entire lives upturned and think ahh yes I would love to do this again! I just feel so ashamed and like I’m doing something wrong that this hasn’t been the happiest time of my life

We are 9 days post tonsillectomy. He(3M) had a hemorrhage on day 6. It was horrifying and traumatizing. I'm not even fully recovered mentally or emotionally . They had to go in and re cauterize because the bleeding wouldn't stop because he was so freaked out. We are now 4 days post that experience. I keep waiting for him to bounce back. And it's seems like we started all over. Every single things causes me anxiety. Any yell, scream, shout, laugh, sneeze, cough because what if he bleeds again. Giving meds cause me anxiety because he hates them and yells. So then what if he bleeds again. He is so sleepy. And barely eats. Thankful he drinks and eats apply sauce. I hate hate hate seeing him this way. He doesnt deserve it. I just want it all to be over and life to get back to normal. I know the end will justify the means. His breathing is already so much better. This little guy is my world. I hate seeing him like this.

Have a 5F extremely social kid. She has a few cousins but they are globally distributed over the US. As much as possible, we get together with them every year for holidays, but I’m still worried about my daughter being isolated and not having a regular circle of friends in the future, mostly because her father and I are not that social either and don’t have a good local network of friends (most of my friends are distributed all over countries as well and I mostly keep in touch via text).

I want to be proactive as much as possible and get her socializing with kids her own age. We are actively working on a plan to relocate closer to family. Other than that, I try to schedule a play date with her friend next door as much as possible… what else are all of you doing ?

TIA for reading - I irrationally worry some days we might screw up our kid because of choices we made by not having another child (unlikely I know)

I had my daughter when I was 17 she wasn't planned and be she's love and spoiled and diagnosed by the family with only child syndrome 😂 Her dad walked out about 8 years ago but his absence isn't a factor cuz his side of the family are still present from time to time. I never knew the emotional burden of having a kid til she came around and it weighted on my mental heavily especially doing it alone. But watch her grow as a person year by year and seeing her change has been awestrucking. But still I don't want another kid. Ever. I don't want to deal with the past stages and milestones all over again. I literally don't have the emotional bandwidth or the mental capacity to raise multiple children at once. I like focusing on my one and only she's the best plant I've ever grown.

Since our daughter was as born I had the hardest time letting my in-laws get close. Not sure what it was but I found it incredibly hard, especially with my MIL. They aren’t the warmest people but we had a decent relationship until we had our daughter.

I 100% had postpartum depression and it really flared my ADHD which I think played a massive part. She’s 19mo now and within myself I feel better and a bit more myself.

We went away camping with them over the long weekend here in Aus. Had a great time, I was relaxed and our daughter had the bed time. Then one night my FIL got drunk and started on about how our daughter will regret being an only child. My husband tried reasoning with him and he was carrying on etc. Towards the end I ended in tears and blew up about how bloody hard I found it and why I couldn’t do it again. I want my daughter to have a mother who can be 100% present and mentally well. They didn’t know any of the PPD as I kept everything between my husband and I.

Thank god for my sister-in-law who was there asking if I wanted to go for a walk. She let me vent and listened and understood. By the time we came back my FIL was VERY apologetic and promised he wouldn’t bring it up again. My husband made him understand our decision.

When my husband and I went to bed he told me my FIL is disappointed because they won’t have anyone to carry on the family name. I bloody knew deep down this was the reason behind him hating the fact we were OAD. Mind you they also have another son who could still have children btw 🙄

I’m hoping now that everything is out in the open this is dropped and they will respect our decision.

My only is 1.5 and she’s an absolute joy. I knew before I had her I wanted to

-exclusively breastfeed

-Cosleep

-Stay home with her until she’s 2

-Give her two parents who love each other and get along happily

-Have a consistent schedule and family meals

-Raise her with all the gentleness in the world

I feel like, so far, I’m achieving my goals in motherhood and I can see how well she’s thriving. But it has been so hard, I’ve been constantly working to maintain those goals. While I love all of it, it’s definitely extremely challenging at times.

I can’t imagine providing all of that to another human on top of my daughter. I can’t imagine being a mom this way again because of how drained I am. I do not want to bring another child into the world if I can’t be the mom I was to my first.

EDIT: sorry for the formatting, I haven’t figured out mobile Reddit yet

Chat about your babies here - advice, brags, woes, etc.

Looking for experience from males who were only children How was your relationship with your parents? How is it now? Is there anything you wish your parents did/ didn’t do?

I made my one and done decision permanent. Just started healing from my bilateral salpingectomy (complete removal of tubes), anyone get one and feel hormonally or emotionally different? After infertility issues, a high risk pregnancy, and a traumatic delivery that ended in a c-section (super healthy baby tho!).... I feel free, almost happy, but definitely different than right before. They say it doesn't affect your hormones because the tubes don't have anything to do with hormones but I feel like a new person. Any similar stories or changed hormones?

We just found out our 10w pregnancy with our second has no heartbeat. I have to get a D&C.

This was our third IVF transfer. We have one more embryo but I don’t think I can do this again.

OAD not by choice - how did you make peace with this? I’m so worried for our only’s happiness.

I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy. I have NEVER in my 32 years old living have experienced the Hell that I am in right now. It all started on Saturday when my 3 year old randomly started projecting vomit. Not once. Not twice. But literally about twice a hour from 2pm to 10pm. We were hours away from jumping in the car and taking her to the ER until she woke up the next day, completely normal.

Okay, maybe it was a fluke.

No guys, the last 24 hours has been hell. Be aware this is super TMI but honestly I’m warning other parents lmfaooo. After dinner, my body decided to betray me and projectile liquid from both ends. It was like a scene of the fucking exorcist. I was in tears, thinking, am I really going out like this covered in my own shit and vomit. It was insane. Thank God for my husband who was so incredibly helpful as I laid completely paralyzed on our bathroom floor.

Today, my husband woke up projecting vomit. I’m not a religious person but I’ve been praying to God/Allah/the fucking clouds at this point that this evil Norovirus is gone sooner than later.

But when my head was in the trashcan last night, an epiphany came to me. There’s no way in hell I’m doing this with two kids. I was contemplating how to function with my 3 year old when I’m chained to the toilet but how the hell do people do this with two or more children!? Luckily our toddler is feeling great and enjoying our day at preschool while mom and dad sleep and recover but what would we do if we had another baby or child at home!?

I often see that people's reasons for being OAD include them having had a bad pregnancy, bad labor and delivery experience, bad postpartum depression/anxiety, the baby was super colicky or never slept throughout the night, the kid was a difficult toddler, the mother's age, infertility/medical reasons, lack of support system, etc. These are all super valid reasons to be OAD (any reason is a good reason for parents that want to be OAD).

But, what about those of us who don't have any of the above reasons for wanting to be OAD? Like I legit want to be OAD just because. I don't have a strong reason why I desire to be OAD. I'm just curious if there is anyone else out there who feels the same way as I do?

If so, how do you respond to others when they start questioning things like "when are you having another baby?" and "why do you only want one kid?"

This winter has been BRUTAL for illnesses, but thankfully, we’ve been able to dodge a lot of them because I have a flexible part-time work schedule AND we only have one child. We’ve been able to keep our toddler home from daycare until some of these plagues clear up. This would not be possible with more than one child for various reasons! Luckily it’s keeping us healthier as a result.

I figure she’ll have plenty of time for illnesses when she’s in school full time. 🤪 On the flip side, it’ll probably be easier to handle in some ways because she’ll be that much older.

Has anyone noticed how when peolple aged 45 plus say things like 'one was enough for me' people are less likely to judge and offer their opinions but when you are younger in your 20's or 30's people feel it is more warranted to add opinions such as 'you can't just have one child', 'you must give your child a sibling' etc. There is more of a patronising tone towards women I guess of typical 'childbearing age' (well at least that must be how they see it). As I am aged 35 I figure I will just be vague if people ask if we will have another with 'we will see' or 'not sure if it is on the cards for us'. Hopefully then by the time I reach aged 45 they will shutup or I can just respond with 'the shop is closed now'.

I’m mid 30s. My son is almost 4 now. I had a relatively easy pregnancy and he is a relatively easy kid. He had a really terrible 2-3 but he is now a gentle and kind boy who loves his friends and playing, a bit of an extrovert. He loves being a big brother to neighbours kids. I’ve always wanted 2 kids, but sometime after he was born I became too stressed to even think about another kid and somehow convinced ourselves that we are OAD. For past 1 year or so, I’ve been re-thinking my OAD decision and it is affecting me a lot.

I think I am OAD, primarily due to the lack of a village. My husband helps a lot, but you need someone else you can depend on as well right. We live in another country and my parents are not near me. I still waver on my decision sometimes, thinking I can somehow manage my professional life, my relationship, and 2 kids as I am worried that my son will be alone. I love him too much that I sometimes think that I can go through the whole ordeal again just for him. But having another kid should be for us right, not just for our kid.

I’ve got 2 younger brothers and I love having them as my family. They are not living anywhere near me, but we have a special bond. I am worried that my son will not have such a special bond with anyone. He is a happy cheerful kid so may be he will just be fine. But having another friend may not be as reliable as a sibling right.

I don’t have any friends who can throwaway whatever they are doing in an instant and be with me if needed. But my brothers will do that.

I’m worried I’ll regret my OAD decision, at which point I’ll be past 40 and won’t have a choice.

Can I know from other OAD moms with grown up kids. At the end of the day - do you regret deciding not to have a sibling for your kid? Or did you primarily felt just genuine happiness for the life you chose for him and you…