• Trump is projected to win the US Presidency.
• Trump wants to massively increase tariffs.
• Tariffs usually result in higher consumer prices (aka inflation) and retaliatory tariffs from other countries (see the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act).
• In Fiscal Year 2018, Trump paid $28 billion to agriculture businesses to offset losses due to retaliatory tariffs from China.
• The Supreme Court ruled in July 2024 that any "official" acts by the president are legal.
• Can the president ignore any precedent or rule of law, and just use executive orders to nationalize property? If no, what will stop him?
• If yes, is it possible that the president will nationalize the Ensign Peak fund (see page 5 here) or other TCoJCoLdS assets to pay for losses during economic downturns caused by tariffs?
• Should he?

Welcome to our world.

As I said, the question- and the aftermath- are very serious. Any chatter among those in the know? Thanks.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Trumpvirus/comments/1foqx4g/if_donald_trump_and_jd_vance_met_jesus_today_they/

I am sharing this for a Latter Day Saint Audience.  If you dislike the latter day saint church. fine move along.

I am not a wealthy person.  My house was bought as a fixer upper and you know what….. it still is…..

I am a Latter Day Saint in New York

My co-workers think I am the most conservative person they know. I assume they are right.

I will not be voting for Donald Trump.

Sadly my vote in New York will likely not be as impactful as a swing state on the Federal election, my primary purpose in voting is that I will vote for a congressman Mike Lawler.  I love seeing the attacks against him and them comparing for what he said.  It is ridiculous and just false.  The demographics are against him, but he seems to have done the best he can.

I do think Lawler is level-headed and is definitely not a Trump lackey and he will be the reason I vote in early November.

Was/ Is my Life better With Biden vs Trump?

Inflation is a killer and the free covid money issued during Trump in 2020 (Which most thought was a good idea the Senate vote 96-0 says this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CARES\_Act)

If I were to say am I better now than I was before Trump…financially…..not really.  Donald Trump has left me and other conservatives behind with the institution of the TJCA (SALT Tax).  This seems to be a pattern of Trump.  He helps those who help him and leaves others behind.

I work in New York State.  My companies headquarters are in New York State.  I have six children and financially I am getting by.    Like all liberal states on the coasts,  this in my mind is what happens when the DNC is in control for a long time.

I have high taxes (more government) and that property tax along with charitable contributions made my tax bill see enormous credits that I could use to basically fund Christmas.  Christmas has not been as robust since TJCA.

As a latter Day Saint, I have asked some fellow members why Trump when they know he is  a demagogue.  Funny enough, no one I have asked counters this point that he is trying to be a dictator.

The only answer that I have heard which resonates with me is that he will pack the court with conservatives (as has been done.)  I get that, and having a 2 justice lead right now tells me the court is safe for a while.

Here are doctrinal concerns with Trump as President:

Latter Day Saint Guide to Voting as Found in the Scriptures  My comments

·       1 Samuel 16:7:  Lord Looketh on the Heart.  Do you feel good about Trump’s heart? 

·       D&C 98:10  Wherefore, honest men and wise men should be sought for diligently, and good men and wise men ye should observe to uphold; otherwise whatsoever is less than these cometh of evil.  Do you consider Trump wise or honest?  Is he more or less than Harris? 

Letter from First Presidency as read in sacrament meetings, I view this as scripture for the members of the church (Letter of the  first presidency/prophet to be read in church if that is not revelation I do not know what the definition of scripture could be different).     I have excerpts below in bold.  Some might say oh it is a policy and not revelation….umm I will take that risk and  when I meet Jesus one day and say  and if this comes up I will “Hey I took that letter from the Prophet (I get it First Presidency, but this is my elevator pitch) as God’s word…and I am pretty certain His answer will be either “you erred on the side of caution” or “no, but I see how you might think that” (D&C 1:38  whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.).’  Either way I am not losing sleep over treating this letter as revelation….

Some principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties, and members should seek candidates who best embody those principles.

Note the First Presidency does not say which party embodies those principles…….it is which Candidate

Lets dive into some gospel principles by candidate

Governmental Intervention in States/Religion:  Utah having so much land Federalized (Looking at you likely former Chappaqua resident Bill Clinton) was similar to Trump’s SALT tax hurt to me.  Clinton got to check some boxes on the environment and Federalize land that is a desert.  Meanwhile on SALT, Corporations get tax credits while middle class in high-cost areas cease to exist.   

When the President uses power to burden those States that do not vote for them to check a box that is an abuse of executive power.    TOSS UP BOTH PARTIES HAVE HISTORICALLY BEEN AT FAULT

Freedom of Religion:  Both are courting the Latter Day Vote….so a toss up.  Arizona is too important.  That said there is a push to legislate organized religions….. https://www.umnews.org/en/news/gay-couple-files-complaint-for-refusal-of-wedding. Maybe Advantage Trump

Self Reliance:  Both have history directly or indirectly (DNC) of massive governmental spending…toss up this is not a platform.

Faith in God:  Toss up as both are not focused on church.  I am not concerned by it, as the only latter Day saint kid in New Jersey I am OK with religion not being the focus (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/harris-goes-church-highlighting-absence-religion-2024-campaign-rcna176045).  Shout out to my all my Jewish friends who were available to play during CCD, or my elementary school friend who was an atheist…he was good to chill with after school on a Thursday….good times.

Conspiracy:  I think there are too many cameras in the world for a larger than a 1,000 person conspiracy.  I liked that Jon Oliver joke if we can not hide a surprise party from Grandma how is there some giant governmental conspiracy?   Oh but wait maybe the cameras are rigged, and the servers and the……well you get the idea.  There is always something.  I do not think deepstate is as entrenched as suggested.  It is a lot to hide and lets face it humanity is not that good at hiding. I take peace and solace knowing that many sins will not be hidden very long:  This is echoed in the new Testament, but D&C 1:3

And the rebellious shall be pierced with much sorrow; for their iniquities shall be spoken upon the housetops, and their secret acts shall be revealed.

Personal commentary, I think this partially fulfilled via the internet.  I do not believe in the conspiracies…so toss up no conspiracy that would sway me between candidates.

Personal Morality:  Donald Trump is a train wreck of morality, he has never purported to attempt to keep the law of Chastity.  Kamala is on the abortion train, more like riding what is a wave of resentment towards the shift in abortions.  So if you think abortion is murder, and murder is worse than breaking the law of chastity…so maybe Trump has the edge in morality, which is incredible as he just is slightly more moral.  I do not believe the above on abortion=murder and the first presidency has made statements about where abortion is appropriate and not appropriate.  I am being simplistic.  So if you agree with me and it is worth it…Go ahead and go to your ward Christmas party in December and tell everyone that you have weighed the candidates and announce that you voted for Trump on grounds of personal morality.  People will think you are being sarcastic.  I know I would.  EEK ADVANTAGE TRUMP ACCORDING TO SOME.  I am not there I am more toss up, but I will give it to you.

Who Do I Trust With the Nuclear Football? That Nuclear War book by Jacobsen was a little alarming or me....In short, Not Trump, he frequently walks back on ideas and can not ever stick with the same story.   A very stable genius is the right headline https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/06/politics/donald-trump-white-house-fitness-very-stable-genius/index.html.  This is by default.  Advantage Harris

Cabinet Appointments:  I never liked Reagan’s the best and the rightest.  But the fact that so many of Trump’s prior cabinet members back Harris, should be a warning sign.   I tell my college age kids this litmus test…when you are dating someone….see how popular your date is with their roommates and those they are not in a romantic relationship with.  If they have no other friends or if they continually talk to past loves or all their friends could be potential love interests.  I would not trust them.  If your marriage gets rocky, whom are they going to confide in?  The principle of good with friends…I do not know Harris’ cronies, but Trumps have defected more than any other candidate that I have ever witnessed.  Likely as he is just a despicable human that commoditizes people.  So by Default…Advantage Harris.

Common Sense:  As a child of privilege Trump is hard to relate to.  I like the idea of could I have a (root)beer with him as a way to think of Obama as a not so stuffy guy.  Well my latter day litmus test on the candidate is this…which would you call to serve with in nursery ie watch your kids?  Trump or Harris?  Since Trump is predatory his record would likely be marked and he should not work with children (sorry you knew Epstien, hot weekends with porn stars and these are my kids..not going to take that chance).  Advantage Harris

Courts and Agenda of Morality  If your worry is that the courts are just extensions of the political parties, I get that.  Since each justice except John Roberts seems to just vote party lines if you are conservative on moral reasons then yes I could see an argument for this Advantage Trump

Economics:  Covid Checks led to Inflation  https://www.nber.org/digest/20239/unpacking-causes-pandemic-era-inflation-us.  SALT.  I am not seeing it.  Everyone supported it, Toss Up.

Merely voting a straight ticket or voting based on “tradition” without careful study of candidates and their positions on important issues is a threat to democracy and inconsistent with revealed standards (see Doctrine and Covenants 98:10). Information on candidates is available through the internet, debates, and other sources.

One thing that drove me crazy when I was a student at BYU (BTW how is this football team undefeated?…that is bonkers…I am at the point of  enjoying the ride but in my mind they are not undefeated until they beat Utah at Utah and ASU at ASU).  Back to BYU…there were  many times people would tell me politically they were voting for something because their grandparent is that way.    I am glad we are encouraged to study it out for ourselves and well you can see Olivery Cowdry’s council D&C 9:7-8

7 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.

8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.

I like how it says take no thought except to ask.  Ie don’t just pray to get an answer…figure it out and use good judgement.  Ie don’t be gullible…if a candidate says something is easy…they are wrong.

Yes I am still conservative, and I am TBM.

I did vote for Bill Clinton in my first election but lets call that youthful excitement of suburban New Jersey.  My grandfather was a Utah judge (Democrat) and hung out with James E Faust (Democrat).  So maybe I am more left leaning then other members of the church.  My other grandparents were farmers near park city and definitely leaned left in Utah. They were straight ticket.  Very rare to be left leaning and latter day saint.  However I have become more right wing mostly through my missionary service.... I became conservative was in England….

I served a full time mission in England in late 1990’s.  I remember a woman (with a baby) that I was teaching the church principles to (with the intent to baptize…just so we are clear).  She shared that her oven broke.  The government gave her money to buy a new oven.  Did she buy an oven?  Not with that much cash.  She then bought drugs.  Then went back to the government after going through the drugs and said I don’t have the money and still no oven…what about my baby.  The government got smarter and got her an oven themselves…at least I think.  She did not progress anywhere with church discussions, but that experience really stuck with me.  BTW it is rare for church assistance to be paid directly to people….for a reason…am I right?

Late 1990’s. I saw some many people in England with satellite dishes in government housing.  That bothered me. 

It was the first time I saw someone do what I think is crack.  I have not researched it and I don’t watch edgy movies.  What blew my mind was seeing people home all day not doing anything as they would answer their doors for proselyting missionaries and share their life problems.  I love the CS Lewis statement:

“It does not matter how small the sins are provided that their cumulative effect is to edge the man away from the Light and out into the Nothing.”

Simple doctrine, keeping people from working is keeping them from progress.

Let me be clear

 I do think the democrats when entrenched will run a welfare state.  It is that simple and I understand the ramifications.  Three examples from my life

There are people that I know in New York that do get financial assistance and were told if they took a job at the library or if they started work will not get their benefits. Their governmental benefits are so good that they are disincentivized to work.  Why would I work hard and get so little when others do nothing and get food aid, services for kids etc.    One I was a hometeacher for a church member (Latter Day jargon look it up if confused), after hearing this from the member, I got permission from the church member to talk to the state people about them.  The member agreed, she was frustrated, she was  bored and wanted to work.  I liken it to maybe Adam and Eve in the garden of eden.  What we do not know from scriptures and OTHER resources is the possibility that maybe they were just bored after a while.  Naming animals…that had to get boring.  So I think it is a natural adult instinct to want to work, build and strive and well do something!

Back to the member, I spoke to the government people (again with permission) and  I was like are you kidding me, she is at home all day and wants to work and you are effectively telling her that her benefits go away if she does?  They were like yeah….then they said there is no hope for the Mother.  She was not listening to them anymore.  She did not like how demeaning it was to go shopping with them and they tell her what to buy and walk with her.  This was after several trips. She hated being treated like a child.  , Their new approach, We are working with this kids to put them in some summer camp.  While a week at summer camp is great…are you serious? What about the other 51 weeks in a year?  No good answer. 

I get it they have a lot of families to help and if someone is not “with the program” then perhaps it is not worth it.

The principle that I see is that the government is not incentivized to reduce or improve people but just keep on the status quo.  There are fine employees that likely see a problem and I assume are incredibly helpful.  This woman receiving assistance needed it.  With our small church there is no way we could come close tot the benefits she received from the government.  But that is just it, there is no so much benefit that the person can not work or they are worse off.  In the history of the world, do paid government employees ever raise their hand to lose budget?  No.  Book of Mormon reiterates this with Zeezrom (villain turned good as he saw first hand the corruption).

Alma 11: 20 Now, it was for the sole purpose to get gain, because they received their wages according to their employ, therefore, they did stir up the people to riotings, and all manner of disturbances and wickedness, that they might have more employ, that they might get money according to the suits which were brought before them;

Principle I get out of this…people are motivated by how they are compensated.

Another example is a church member wants to do yard work, but he has cancer medicine.  If he works, the high cost medicine for free goes away.  It is keeping him alive.  As fun as it is for him to be at home and watch/stream.  He wants to work, no one is telling him to work, he just wants to work and cannot.  Tragic.

So they will not work and we have a governmental system so warped in job protection that they never will work.

Not church related but still important.  I grew up near Newark NJ and near every local election the local schools would get re-painted.  This was the DNC playbook. Cover up the problem with a fresh coat and everyone will ignore what a disaster the schools were the past three years.  I lived in Newark for a summer, it was a nice part of town in the early 2000’s.  I like Newark, but how is this city still a train wreck when every other area around NYC has markedly improved?

New Jersey every so often elects a Republican official as governor.  It is more of a pendulum correction after the DNC controls so long, gets so corrupt and then a Republican can come in for just one term.

This governmental support is what has driven me to be more conservative.  Do I think that those voters on government support are worried on losing benefits, and thereby are financially incented to keep Democrats in power?  Yes, absolutely. 

Right now there is no promise of less government by either candidate.  So my core reason of conservatism is not being highlighted by either candidate.  Maybe Trump will do better, than Harris.

Personally I think latter Day Saints are conservatives not for the morality reasons, but more for states/small groups rights.  The Utah War may not be spoken about in Latter Day circles (like I mean it is not mentioned at all) but that impact is still present.  The early church members refugees from state to state and were at times governmentally kicked out.   Church members are very aware of mobs and that those that should have protected them did not.   Looking back the early pioneers were audacious……they were antislavery in the great compromise state of Missouri and they as voted as a bloc…What could possibly go wrong? 

Oscratcized they settled outside of the United States. Utah settled prior to gold rush. When the US decided to expand west…there they were at the crossroads to the west.  Latter Day Saints seemed united, organized and all of the sudden needed. 

Then they settled and the Utah war enveloped where the early saints already victimized now settled in a desert and had to rebury their semi constructed temple while federal soldiers arrived.   This is very simplified I get it, I am just saying it is in the culture.

For Latter Day Saints, Plural marriage Polygamy was stopped over 130 years ago (mostly stopped just go with me on this one) for the fear that the government would take over the church properties **Manifesto 1  https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/od/1?lang=eng).** 

 If the Federal government overreaches and tries to dictate to churches what they can and can not do….you have made new enemies in the mountain west corridor.  Leave churches alone to act as independent groups/clubs and I think most latter-day saints will be fine with whomever is in charge.  Even the perception of trying to get churches compliant to some left wing agenda will invoke a push back.  I have heard whispers that there maybe a day that Bishops may be locked up for refusing to perform certain types of marriages or something else.  I do not feel that threat with a desperate Harris campaign whom is leaning more towards the middle.  I never felt that with Trump either.

The real core is not something that Harris did, but the past when the DNC is in power too long then they talk about revoking not for profit status of churches and getting pushy with agenda. 

Forget morality If Harris was serious about the Latter Day Saint Vote, she would include in her platform a promise to respect all religious faiths and not interfere governmentally.  It would be to protect organizations to be independent of any governmental influence.  Something constitutional would be amazing.

 Conservatives Future Is At Stake

I hate second term presidents…they have no check on them.  They are lame duck on arrival and will do what they want.  Will the RNC be better with Trump unchecked in a final term?  No.  Like all of his enterprises he will burn bridges, sow chaos, and ensure he is the limelight.  

Donald Trump looks to loyalty first.  If he was serious about democracy, Mike Pence would be his running mate.  If Trump is elected, he will do what he wants…his lackeys always looking for their next job as they know his term will expire in four years and their cabinet and government post will be just a resume builder vs actually doing what is good for our nation. 

After 4 years, Fox and some other network will hire some…but then the RNC will have years to recover from Donald Trump the same way the Democrats recovered poorly from Carter’s term.    

Years ago I joked in High Priests Group that I struggled in an election…… do I voted for the guy who cheated on his wife (McCain) or do I vote Democrat (Obama)?    

I did not mind Trump as president until he was up for reelection, then when he spoke, I was like…are you kidding me?  He just annoyed me.  In fact I was mostly OK with him as President when he was not on TV. 

In the future when I tell my kids I voted for Kamala and suppose she gets some momentum and wins…will I have to apologize to them?  No, I will say I did not vote for Harris as I really voted against a demagogue. If Trump wins, he will undoubtedly be a train wreck and I will tell my grandchildren “see I told you.”

u/SimpleLateen Rob is the National Director of Latter-day Saints for Harris-Walz and previously served in the US Department of Education.

u/slammin03 Sam is the national political correspondent for the Deseret News, covers the 2024 presidential election, and worked as the lead researcher on "Romney: A Reckoning."

u/WJoshuaLee Josh is a writer and communications consultant. He has served in the Trump White House, NASA, and in nearly all levels of state and local government.

Sam's recent r/politics AMA provides a useful preview of the topics we'll be discussing and can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1gezyhb/im_samuel_benson_the_national_political/

Sincere thanks and props all around to everyone who participated tonight! Faith in civil discussion restored? Probably too early to make that call (among many other calls in the process of being made). Vote! And don't be strangers to our guests (or this sub). Rock on.

https://theapotheosisnarrative.wordpress.com/2024/10/29/the-latter-day-saint-case-for-kamala-harris/?_thumbnail_id=8809

https://youtu.be/9BozFgL13nk?si=47uIXzuqUEoo3jj1

He stuck the landing with that final quote. Don't be emotional, be rational. A bitter truth is always better than a sweet lie.

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