I want to start learning so I can read the new testament in its original language, I've been learning the alphabet for a bit as that (for me) is an essential starting place. But after that im stuck, I've seen someone recommended basics of biblical greek but honestly it really doesn't suit how I want to learn. Does anyone have any recommendations? Thank you in advance 👍

Greetings,

From the LXX

Isaiah 59:2 (LXX Parsed) ἀλλὰ τὰ ἁμαρτήματα ὑμῶν διιστῶσιν ἀνὰ μέσον ὑμῶν καὶ τοῦ θεοῦ, καὶ διὰ τὰς ἁμαρτίας ὑμῶν ἀπέστρεψεν τὸ πρόσωπον αὐτοῦ ἀφʼ ὑμῶν τοῦ μὴ ἐλεῆσαι.

"διιστῶσιν ἀνὰ μέσον"

"part each in the middle"?

This looks like an idiom to me, I don't have an exegetical guide to the LXX, I know what the English says, but can anyone explain this idiom?

Isaiah 59:2 (NIV) But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.

Hello!

I started looking into learning Koine Greek recently, I've made this app, mostly just for myself, to try to build my vocabulary, I though I'd share it, maybe it will be useful to someone else too.

Basically pressing 'space' or 'enter' gives you a random word, then pressing it again will show you the translation and all info about the word. That's about it...

It contains all words from the New Testament.

You can cycle through X number of words over and over again until you memorize them, pick words from certain book, chapter or verse; randomly or sorted by frequency...

It's based on biblehub.com's Greek table; I'm completely new to Greek, so I wouldn't know if there are innaccuracies or anything, hopefully not...

Check it out if you want to:

https://github.com/Monday-nr/GreekBibleVocabularyApp/releases/tag/v1.0

https://preview.redd.it/ylp1vpi1ixyd1.png?width=906&format=png&auto=webp&s=729950ba8a6d92e5b332b2df2bc04d48fd4a05f1

What's the best way to learn biblical Greek? This is not a low effort post. I've worked through parts of Bill Mounce's book and also Black's book.

I am a native English speaker, and I have learned fluent Mandarin Chinese (spoken / reading / writing). My challenge is the way Mounce teaches Greek is like memorization of a formula. This is not how natural languages should be taught, and my brain just doesn't work that way.

I'm looking for good resources that teach biblical Koine greek but through traditional methods of learning to speak the language. Perhaps creating simple sentences and building up grammar and vocabulary, instead of just presenting grammar rules as a formula.

Im a beginner in this but Is there anybody here who is very familiar and know koine Greek that can help me figure out if this verse is either in past present or future tense in revelation 17:18 ?

καὶ ἡ γυνὴ ἣν εἶδες ἔστιν ἡ πόλις ἡ μεγάλη ἡ ἔχουσα βασιλείαν ἐπὶ τῶν βασιλέων τῆς γῆς

I am probably missing something obvious in John 6.23, but if ploia (boats) is nominative plural then why is hlthen (aorist of erchomai) third singular?

Greetings,

I have a about 1900/5400 words of the Greek NT in circulation in my Anki, with around 1300 words learned solidly.

To read Κατὰ Μἃρκον, I am learning the 500 words outside my vocabulary to read with the full vocabulary of Mark. This will take me a few months.

I'm looking for something easy to read outside the New Testament while I learn the vocabulary. Any suggestions?

This verse generally gets translated to the effect that men are supposed to regard their wives as weaker than them. I do not know how to read or speak Koine but I do find looking at the breakdown of the greek translations on Biblehub to be pretty interesring. I was looking at this for this verse and the interpretive range of the words given made me wonder if this verse could reasonably be translated as "Husbands likewise dwell with your wives with knowledge as the weaker vessel [i.e. the husband is the weaker vessel] and esteem them as fellow heirs of the grace of life to the end that your prayers not be hindered." This seems more in line with the general theme of being sympathetic and compassionate from this section or, "esteeming others more highly than yourself" as the author of Philipians says in a similar vein. Can the text bare this translation without straining the grammar of Koine Greek?

Is there a transliterated Greek New Testament. I may need one to present to people that do not know Greek.

Hey,

I have some meta-questions. Not questions about Koine, but about learning Koine

I started learning modern Greek a few months ago. I'm from Poland and I'm not a Christian but I'm interested in history so I quickly decided to look into Koine-learning materials. It was quite a surprise to me to discover that people learn Koine mostly to read New Testament, and that most of you seem to be from United States.

Are there materials on the internet that discuss how it came to be that Koine is mostly learned for religious studies, who are the most prominent academics and teachers, what are the best handbooks and what methods of learning are used, and so on? YouTube videos and articles on blogs would be the best for me, but books or podcasts are good as well.

Also, could you tell me something about your motives for learning Koine? Like, is it only for reading NT and other early Christian literature, or are you interested in other literary works as well? And do you focus only on Koine or do you learn modern (or Classical) Greek as well?

Whats the best way to learn the vocabulary and read the language and progress?

We had a few issues last week with people attempting to join the group but failed. This week I shall be ready to admit people to the group! Apologies for this. I look forward to everyone's input. Feel free to leave your camera off if you like just to watch. Here is the info for Sunday 7pm GMT:

Meeting ID: 354 361 632 590

Passcode: moUg6w

Whether beginner or seasoned at Greek, what are the most indispensable books one has in one's personal library.

Feel free to include any NT Greek books.

Χαίρετε

ἐπιθυμίας is often translated as "lust", but it is an under translation of the word, because lust to English speakers means sex, but the word means a desire for something forbidden or inordinate, or just simply a strong desire for something (either good or bad).

Historically the word lust had closer to the same meaning in Greek, as a strong desire whether either good or bad, but the word changed to just mean sex, partly because the KJV only uses the word in a negative context's in its translation.

BDAG definitions
① a great desire for someth.
② a desire for someth. forbidden or simply inordinate

So this verse

1 Thessalonians 4:5 (SBLGNT)
^(5) μὴ ἐν πάθει ἐπιθυμίας καθάπερ καὶ τὰ ἔθνη τὰ μὴ εἰδότα τὸν θεόν,

translated in the LEB as

1 Thessalonians 4:5 (LEB)
^(5) not in lustful passion, just as also the Gentiles who do not know God;

misses the nuance that it is a inordinate passionate desire for anything, given the context of the bible, it is a desire for anything that we put above God.

To me translations missing this meaning, is a shame.

How did the scholars decide that this word is just limited to lust in specific cases?

At some point, I want to switch to a paper bible with no aides.

What tools, books does one use to look up words for meanings and inflections? In particular irregular inflections or hard to recognise inflections?

I am daily building my vocabulary, but envisage that I will still need to look up words once I switch.

Hello r/koine!

For anyone interested in joining the reading group tonight at 7pm GMT, here is the Microsoft Teams ID and password:

Meeting ID: 354 361 632 590

Passcode: moUg6w

This is a minor nuance in terms of translation, but curious to know if anyone knows why does the NIV use a positive, versus the original language which is negative. I can't explain it but to me the original language "feels" better.

Matthew 7:1 (SBLGNT)
Μὴ κρίνετε, ἵνα μὴ κριθῆτε

Matthew 7:1 (NIV)
Do not judge, or you too will be judged. (Dynamic Equivalence)

Matthew 7:1 (LEB)
Do not judge, so that you will not be judged. (Formal Equivalence)

I've seen that you can find older editions of Koine Greek texts on Bible Gates, but they don't have diacritics or accents or anything like that. Are these still useful for reading? Or can accents and diacritics actually help differentiate words, or is there not that much of a difference?

Χαιρετε! I can't figure out how to translate γινωσκουσα and γινωσκω together in this text (I Clement 12:5): "γινωσκουσα γινωσκω εγω οτι κυριος ο θεος παραδιδωσιν υμιν την γην ταυτην..." (cf. Josh. 2:8-9: "I know that the Lord has given you this land..."). Any ideas?

I mean, I noticed that these letters that represent certain ones are not present in the oldest manuscripts, but I don't know if that is intended to represent the old pronunciation or what purpose these diacritics serve beyond having a more exact pronunciation or if the text can be understood without the need for them?

What does "εν + infinitive" mean? I find constructions like this (3:4) in many early Christian texts: "...δια τουτο πορρω απεστιν η δικαιοσυνη και ειρηνη, εν τω απολιπειν εκαστον τον φοβον του θεου και εν τη πιστει αυτου αμβλυωπησαι..."

I completely understand the sentence, but I don't grasp its notion. Is it temporal, causal, etc.?

Does such a tool exist to read the Codex Sinaiticus from photos that aide in things such as word boundary and mouse over to Unicode Polytonic Greek. I find it very hard to read the photos, with no spaces and all uppercase which I'm not used to.

It would be useful to me in helping to understand part of how scholars created the Novum Testamentum Graece.

My guess is it doesn't but on the off chance some one knows of one...

I have a question about Colossians 2:8. The backstory is long, you can find the question at the bottom too.

In Philosophical Foundations for Christian worldview by Craig and Moreland, I came across a refutation of the argument against Christians doing philosophy based on Colossians 2:8.

Colossians 2:8 NASB
See to it that there is no one who takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception in accordance with human tradition, in accordance with the elementary principles of the world, rather than in accordance with Christ.

Their response:
"However, on an investigation of the structure of the verse, it becomes clear that philosophy in general was not the focus. Rather, the Greek grammar indicates that “hollow and deceptive” go together with “philosophy,” that is, vain and hostile philosophy was the subject of discussion, not philosophy per se." P46 in the online version of Philosophical Foundations.

What however threw me of was the NASB's translation: philosophy and empty deception. So I looked into the Greek and two commentaries.

Here they are:

The Greek verse

8 Βλέπετε μή τις ⸉ὑμᾶς ἔσται*⸊ ὁ συλαγωγῶν διὰ τῆς φιλοσοφίας καὶ κενῆς ἀπάτης κατὰ τὴν παράδοσιν τῶν ἀνθρώπων,* κατὰ τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου καὶ οὐ κατὰ Χριστόν·*Kurt Aland et al., Novum Testamentum Graece, 28th Edition. (Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 2012), Col 2:8.

The WSNT:
gives the force of the article, his philosophy: καὶ and is explanatory, philosophy which is also vain deceit^(11) Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament.+Rev.+~gives+the+force+of+t), vol. 3 (New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 485.

The JFB:
but making yourselves his spoil) through (by means of) his philosophy,” &c. The apostle does not condemn all philosophy, but “the philosophy” (so Greek) of the Judaic-oriental heretics at Colosse, which afterwards was developed into Gnosticism^(11) Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible, vol. 2 (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997), 376.

διὰ τῆς φιλοσοφίας καὶ κενῆς ἀπάτης

So now finally my question: Considering the Greek: διὰ τῆς φιλοσοφίας καὶ κενῆς ἀπάτης.
Why is his philosophy the correct translation? isn't it just a gentive because of διὰ?
Is it clear from just the Greek that that type of Philosophy is meant that is also empty deceit?
Or could it, just by reading the Greek, also be: philosophy and empty deceit as two distinct categories?

Although this question is not essential at all, it has been bugging me a bit, so I hope someone with more proficiency in the Greek language can help me. Thank you!

Bless you

Hey all, I was reading this passage of Matthew at church today. I noticed that all the major Bible translations I checked (NIV, ESV, NASB, NRSV) translate the last clause here, οἱ δὲ ἐδίστασαν, as "but some doubted." But this appears to be simply, "but they doubted." Is there something in the construction that allows or 'some'? Full verses for context:

16 Οἱ δὲ ἕνδεκα μαθηταὶ ἐπορεύθησαν εἰς τὴν Γαλιλαίαν εἰς τὸ ὄρος οὗ ἐτάξατο αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς, 17 καὶ ἰδόντες αὐτὸν προσεκύνησαν, οἱ δὲ ἐδίστασαν. (SBLGNT)