/r/Jewish
r/Jewish is a subreddit devoted to all things culturally, communally, and questionably Jewish. Less religious-focused than other corners of the internet, and always welcoming to our LGBTQ+ members.
Welcome to /r/Jewish, a subreddit devoted to all things culturally, communally and questionably Jewish. Less religious than some other corners of the internet, and always welcoming to our LGBTQ+ and interfaith members.
Please keep posts and comments positive, constructive, and on-topic. Up- and down-voting should follow standard Rediquette. Follow the rules below, and enter a custom report reason if you think further details are required. You can also message the moderators.
Have fun, wear sunscreen, and don't forget a little something to nosh. Did you call your mother?
1. No antisemitism: Read the full statement on antisemitism from the mods of Judaism-related subreddits
You will be banned for being antisemitic. It's as simple as that.
2. No proselytizing: Don't try to convert us. We are not interested.
3. Be civil: No name calling – we'll delete it, and we'll ban serious or repeat offenders. No taunting. No spam. Avoid swear words and vulgarity, to keep the sub family friendly. No threats of or calls to violence. No statements supporting or justifying the actions or beliefs of terrorists. Note that we may lock or remove entire threads that get out of hand. Click here for further details on this rule.
4. Remember the human: Don't be a racist, or any type of bigot. Don't insult LGBTQ+ people. Don't insult Palestinians or Arabs. Don't insult other religions. Don't insult other Jewish denominations. Don't question the Jewish 'credentials' of others. Don't declare the practices of other Jews invalid. Relevant and civil discussion of racial, LGBTQ+, or Israel/Palestine topics is allowed.
5. Stay on topic: This is a big-tent subreddit for all topics related to Jews and Jewish life, but stay on topic. Do not create a new topic within a thread. No ranting about the moderation processes of or bans from other subreddits. No inciting brigading of other subreddits. Besides news stories, keep discussions of political preferences & opinions to the pinned thread.
6. No solicitation or advertising: No personal or school surveys. No selling of goods/services. No fundraising or linking to fundraisers. No linking of self-authored blog posts or articles. No calls to participate in your research project. No advertising of any kind. We will not write your school essay. If your account represents an organization, you must identify yourself as such in any post/comment you make. Click here for more details.
7. No excessive posting or commenting: Excessive posts and/or comments will be removed. Search through recent posts in r/Jewish about a topic and participate in the pinned megathreads collection, don't just create a new post on a popular topic. Do not post separate "follow-up" posts to your initial post – edit or reply to your original post.
8. Don't post paywalled links: This rule holds for posts. Also, due to copyright laws, the full body of a paywalled article is not to be copied and pasted into the comments. Just post an alternative, reliable source.
9. No new or low-karma accounts: Accounts must be 18 days old and have at least 18 comment karma to post or comment freely. All other accounts will have posts and comments held for review by the moderating team. Only accounts with substantial history on this subreddit will be allowed to post polls. Additionally, accounts new to the subreddit are held to the highest standards for all rules, particularly on controversial topics.
10. No low-effort posts/comments: If you're posting a link to an article, summarize it or add a few points describing the relevance of the article to this community. Consider including a prompt for discussion. If you're linking to a YouTube video, describe its relevance and contents. If your idea for a comment is equivalent to an upvote ("ok", "agreed", etc.) or downvote ("disagree", "no", etc.), vote instead of commenting. Details.
/r/Jewish
Hey everyone! I’ve noticed a large number of people on here talking about their experiences with soft antisemitism, cloaked as anti-Zionism, or just the overall tension and paranoia that us Jews feel since October 7th. I was wondering if anyone wanted to chat, and share our experiences? I’d love to meet some new people! Feel free to DM!
I'm really tired of being Jewish. I want to be open about being a Jew, but in my country it's just not that simple. Our community is freaking out so much right now and it feels like it's falling apart. I don't get all the joy and pride from Judaism anymore. Sometimes I even think of quitting everything, forgetting everything and start identifying myself as a different nationality. I'm lost in the Israel-Palestine conflict and I'm so tired of it. I want to blow up the whole region just to end everything that's going on there and just leave it like it is right now. I feel like all the great Jews, who absolutely hated being ones and hid it, but the only difference is that I don't hate being Jewish - I hate how people hate me for being Jewish. I want to fight antisemitism, I have a project dedicated to it, but I feel like it's not going to help, because we are stuck in a f*cking circle of: we are fighting antisemitism, but we need security to accompany us while being in public, because of antisemitism. It's going nowhere. I'm so so scared I want to puke. I wish I could be open and proud about being MYSELF. Or just be able to forget who I really am and stop worrying for once.
Hi, I'm not sure how to begin, but recently my biological father has reached out which was quite a shock and it turns out he's Jewish (I don't know him - until now - and wasn't raised with him or my biological mother).
I'm 19M and have been talking with my bio father for a few months now, it turns out he converted to Judaism about a decade ago after befriending a group of Jewish people. He did this because he wanted to go back to his roots as his grandmother (my great grandmother) was a Jewish girl in the Netherlands circa ww2, she then moved to England because of the war, unfortunately her family didn't make it but her sister who went to Australia. She was raised as/along side Christianity, resulting in most of my bio father's side being Christian now.
My bio father told me that the family line goes back to Israel, under the Ottomans etc etc.
I have to admit all this was quite a shock to me, I'd never thought I'd know anything about my biological family origins or anything like that.
I was wandering what this means for me and my relation to the Jewish people and Judaism. I am not religious myself at the moment and I don't know much about my biological mother (other than she isn't with my bio father) and her roots are from Argentina.
I would appreciate any help and information about what this means and if I am considered Jewish and what anyone can tell me about this subject and how to go about unpacking it all and who I am. It's all very new information to me and I wasn't sure who I could approach about this.
Thank you for reading all this, any advice, help and information I will be very grateful to receive. I'll try to answer any questions you all might have ❤
So because I wasn't raised Jewish, I've heard some people say that Jewish women are forbidden to date gentiles. But as I'm actively learning and beginning my Judaism classes, I'm actively a Noahide beginning the process to join the tribe. This might be a stupid question, but am I forbidden from dating Jewish women until the Beit Din?
I work freelance on film sets and most people are professional and friendly but I have gotten some dirty looks for wearing my hostage tag and Magen David on set. Another Jew I know had a bunch of his coworkers isolate him after he posted in support of Israel.
I’m a Jew at a Christian university and my roommate is very religious and plans on being a pastor (which is fun because I plan on becoming a Rabbi)
He and I were catching up and we started talking theology when he mentioned that he doesn’t believe in evolution: he believes we are the direct descendants of Adam and Eve
As a reform Jew, I’ve grown up under the understanding that the Torah can sometimes be literal, but it is often representative or metaphorical.
I think in anything, religion included, there’s a fine line between love/commitment and obsession: my fear is that he may be obsessed
I think this realization bothers me so much because it’s something I feel he and I should be able to agree on (that evolution is a part of God’s will and is REAL), but also because I can’t even comprehend how someone can take that part of Genesis so literally and the fact that he does makes me worried that he’s overly obsessed with the Bible etc.
I just needed to get that out, it’s definitely been on my mind the last couple days
https://www.sefaria.org/Ketubot.103a.29?lang=bi
Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi commanded his sons: My lamp should be lit in its usual place, my table should be set in its usual place, and the bed should be arranged in its usual place. The Gemara asks: What is the reason he made these requests? The Gemara explains: Every Shabbat eve, even after his passing, Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi would come to his house as he had done during his lifetime, and he therefore wished for everything to be set up as usual.
The Gemara relates the following incident: It happened on a certain Shabbat eve that a neighbor came by and called and knocked at the door. His maidservant said to her: Be quiet, for Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi is sitting. When he heard his maidservant reveal his presence to the neighbor, he did not come again, so as not to cast aspersions on earlier righteous individuals who did not appear to their families following their death.
Any thoughts, lol? I find it really cool!
Hi. Good evening from a cold NZ far sth evening (close to summer but literally will only be about 4 or 5 celcius this evening so have wood fire going.)
To be honest, I'm truly tired & sick of all the Depressing & hateful , demented stuff we are seeing Against Israel and Jews so wanted to share some thing nice and INTERESTING ..hopefully (I do bore people so let's hope people will be interested 🤔😡)
The first Fact and infact record is the Local and only Synagogue in my home city. NZ is home to between 7500-10k Jews. But it could be less or more as it's hard to know by census & etc but somewhere around what I said.
NZ population is approx 5.2 million so Jews are an incredible minority. My home city and area of approx 130k people has maybe 150 or 200 jews so truly tiny amount.
Dunedin's (home city) First Jewish congregation assembled in January 1862 in the home of H.E. Nathan in George Street (main street of home city) With 43 members, it was clear that a more permanent base was needed instead of just a home, and that was site in Moray Place which still exists in orginal building!!! But is no longer a synagogue. It is a synagogue, designed by W. H. Sumner, & was built and opened in September 1863.
This building was used until 1881, by which time it was proving too small for the growing congregation!! Which is amazing considering The population was quite small in Dunedin then.
The building was sold to the Freemasons, who occupied it until 1992 as a Masonic Lodge. Since that time it has been a private residence, and was an art gallery (the Temple Gallery) during the 2000s, before reverting to being a private residence.
By 1875 Plans to move to a larger synagogue were being made. By this time the congregation had grown to the point that the new synagogue was to be one of the largest in the southern hemisphere!!! And one of the largest places of worship of any denomination in Dunedin which in unbelievable as its even now just a small city in far ends of world. The new building, opened in 1881, & was built almost directly across Moray Place from the first synagogue.
The building was capable of holding a congregation of 600 people!! This building served as the city's synagogue until 1965, when the now dwindled congregation moved to a new, smaller building in George Street. The Boldini synagogue was sold to the Y.M.C.A. and was demolished shortly afterwards to make way for that organisation's new building. The site of this structure is now that of a multi-storey car park building
The current and third synagogue was erected in 1965 in Dunedin North, not far the University. A much more modest building than its predecessors, the building is compact and is constructed of concrete block. It was designed by John Goldwater, a Jewish New Zealand architect who also more famously designed the Auckland Jewish community centre.
The local Dunedin Jewish Congregation is a Progressive Jewish community and a member of the Union for Progressive Judaism (UPJ), the regional division of the World Union for Progressive Judaism. Services are held approximately one Friday a month along with most holidays. And the orginal synagogues were likely Orthodox. And not all Jews who practice judiasm or go to a synagogue are UPJ as there is a wee bit of a mix.
Now the record (which I made all you guys read all of the facts first 🤣🤣) is that The local Synagogue in my home city (both of course previous ones and now current one) is Literally THE MOST SOUTHERN Synagogue in the world. I think in Patagonia there is one quite far sth but not as far sth as the one in my home city. It's pretty far sth down here. It's over 3 times closer to Antarctica than west coast of the US from my home city!! So there is apparently no Synagogue more south then my home city which is pretty amazing!! If anyone can confirm the highest by altitude Synagogue in world then please say as I know most Northern Synagogue is in Fairbanks Alaska from what I read. (Ohh btw another side fact but not Jewish fact is my home city also has the World's steepest street lol. It's gradient on one section makes it so.
Okay another fact I literally just found out quite recently and what is truly amazing is Little ol NZ has had not one , not two But THREE Jewish Prime Ministers (heads of states) ..I think first was called a premier but is same as PM. I knew of one who was the PM in recent history but didn't know of 2 let alone 3!! ...ohhh no "the jews are ruling nz" 😱🙄🤪 yeah I'm sure a thick skull will look into it.
All jokes aside. What I found truly amazing is that the first Jewish PM /Premier was way back in the 1870s!! That was Julius Vogel, who served twice during the 1870s & practised Judaism.
2nd was Francis Bell who was PM very briefly in 1925. And 3rd who I know best is Former Prime Minister John Key was born to an Austrian Jewish mother and is thus considered Jewish under Halakha, though he is not practicing and is I think agnostic according to him. He I think had Three terms!! NZ PM terms are 3 years and there is Literally no limit to how many times you can run.
It is truly amazing that NZ has had THREE Jewish heads of state when the US hasn't even had one. And I'm not sure if I'm right but maybe it's possible that NZ has had the most Jewish leaders after Israel. But I'm not sure about that.
Another fact is about a NZ gentile Prime Minister who was both a good friend of the Jewish community/communities & An advocate for The state of Israel before and right as it was being Established.
In 1948 NZ Prime Minister Peter Fraser was criticised for his ‘Zionist exuberance’ by one of his most senior officials, at a time when the NZ government was vigorously debating recognition of the state of Israel.
Peter Fraser’s biographers described him as a man of principle who was an old fashioned human rightist, ‘tied on a tight leash to the under dog’.
Fraser was a great friend of the Jewish people and advocated for them on numerous occasions.
In 1943 he spoke emphatically against the ‘Nazi Fascist tyranny’ calling it ‘one of the blackest chapters in the history of the human race’. He was appalled at Nazi treatment of the Jews, which he referred to as the ‘savagery of the civilised barbarians of today.’
The horror of the Holocaust, combined with the refugee crises of European Jews undergirded his passionate support for the establishment of a Jewish state. He declared New Zealand’s intention to stand ‘four-square for justice for the ancient home’, and advocated strongly for the return of the Jews, arguing, ‘The Jewish people naturally and rightly want to go back to Palestine’.
His enthusiasm was not just a response to the Nazi persecution and attempted annihilation of the Jewish people, but was also based on admiration for what Jews had achieved in Palestine. Indeed, many in the Labour Party identified with the Zionist project because of socialist affinities.
They admired the pioneering drive and industry of the Zionists in restoring the land and turning malarial swamps into productive land. They believed that their small nations shared values of democracy, egalitarianism and the desire to create a better society.
At the 1945 post-war San Francisco conference, which established the United Nations, Fraser gained international stature as a leader of small nations. He believed that an international system such as the UN would provide ‘the best means of securing universal peace and justice’. (Although I'm sure he wouldn't love UNRWA lol)
Fraser also advocated for the Jewish people in San Francisco, declaring:
Whatever can be done to help the persecuted Jewish people shall and must be done to the utmost ability of all right-thinking men. There should be no antagonism or misunderstanding between the Jewish and Arab peoples, as everyone living in Palestine would naturally benefit from what the Jewish people have made out of a land which was once desert, until the desert bloomed as a rose. Palestine is very akin to the ideals of New Zealand except that the Jewish people went into Palestine with a tradition of privation… ..I hope and believe that the representatives from this country who take part in the council will stand four-square for justice for the ancient home and new hope of the Jewish people.
Fraser saw the UN Partition Plan of 1947 as a fair solution which ‘involved the least injustice to the rights of both parties’. He stated that if the Palestinian Arabs were to set up a government within the territory allocated to the Arab State by the General Assembly, NZ would be equally willing to recognise it. However, under no circumstances, would he recognise or accept the right of the Arabs to proclaim a unitary Arab state throughout the whole of Palestine, as such an action would be in flagrant contravention of the General Assembly resolution.
Fraser was keen to recognise Israel immediately upon its May 1948 declaration of statehood but came under sustained pressure from Britain not to do so. As a member of the commonwealth, New Zealand sought to act in concert with other members. New Zealand had taken an independent path on the 1947 vote, believing that partitioning the land and offering a state for the Jews and a state for the Arabs was the fairest solution. Fraser was then persuaded by Britain to hold off recognition of the state of Israel, while any likelihood of ‘persuading the Arabs to agree to a truce remained’.
Fraser was disturbed by the British government’s attitude; alarmed that Britain continued to supply munitions to the Arabs and at the involvement of British officers in the Transjordan Arab Legion.
Fraser also had to contend with his own cabinet who voted to follow Britain’s lead. Fraser and Walter Nash were the only two that voted to proceed with recognition. All others voted against the motion. This was the occasion on which Alister McIntosh, felt the need to constrain the Prime Minister’s “Zionist exuberance.”
New Zealand accorded de facto recognition to Israel simultaneously with the United Kingdom on 29 January 1949. In May 1949 the United Nations General Assembly voted to grant Israel UN membership. New Zealand supported the resolution along with thirty-seven other countries and finally accorded de jure recognition to Israel on 28 July 1950, along with Britain.
Peter Fraser steered his nation through the difficult years 1940-1949. While he didn’t gain the public affection won by Michael Joseph Savage, he was an astute, gifted politician, who put the needs of the nation above the party. He was greatly loved by the Jewish community who afforded him the great honour of inscribing his name in the Golden Book. They viewed Fraser in the same light as previous Zionist leaders who had contributed significantly to the establishment of the Jewish state; Arthur Balfour, Lloyd George, Jans Smuts and Winston Churchill.
Peter Fraser stands as an example of a man driven by principles of justice and human rights, willing to go ‘against the tide’ for what he believed was right. He demonstrates the power of the individual to influence the destiny of nations.
So my family all over the world I will leave it on that beautiful note about PM Peter Fraser who was a man of true principals to say the least.
If your still reading up until this point thanks. If not then why am I still writing this sentence. Joking 🤣.
Thank you to everyone. We may not always agree politically & with some other things But I truly never or INCREDIBLY rarely used Reddit pre Oct 7th. I was shocked by what I seen on Twitter from the VERY time Israelis were being killed on Oct 7th which was a Saturday evening in NZ. I was on Twitter watching it unfold and seeing the most revolting disgusting comments and conspiracy and "but what about 48" ..bs literally AS it was happening live in Israel.
And also trying to put doubt into live or close to live videos by saying things like "that's isis" or "that's Syrian civil war" (btw those particular ones were confirmed to be Israel and could literally see proof on video in many ways) So anyway I talked to some Jews on Twitter and etc Oct 7th & after as I didn't grow up at all with a jewish community , culture, religion and was raised and still am Tibetan Buddhist (as my Jewish mum is & Non Jewish Dad)
But I went looking after Oct 7th to Jewish groups to see what people were saying as I felt the need to reach out and talk as things were getting over the top. And for me to say that means much as I normally don't get effected by anti semetic idiots or anti zionist dweebs & my whole life I never really felt Jewish or targeted at all really.
But the share tide of it and what was being said both on far left and Neo nazi /jewhaters on Other side and islamists all combined i found alarming and felt truly for first time in My life very very aware of My being a Jew. Even if I don't practice Judiasm or raised with anything Jewish and 50% of My dna being non Jewish all made no difference. So I looked up Jewish groups including in here as I was alarmed. Anyway thanks to you all for your good humour and good information about important things. I hope you enjoyed by incredibly long Post.
Am Yisrael Chai 🇮🇱
I was pretty shocked but I can’t imagine he would have done it if he thought it would affect his reelection significantly.
I have known quite amount of people who didn’t know they had Ashkenazi or Mizrahi dna in them, do you guys think there’s a larger amount? or atleast slightly larger amount like 18 million, as the current population is like 15 million at the moment.
Hey. Sorry.
I hope you all are doing well.
My friends and I had a get togther last night where we read monolouges for fun. I picked Shylock's from Merchant of Venice (I understand that it's different in context of the play, but I do like it) because I love doing angry theater and because he was an angry Jew who felt like he wasn't seen as as much of a person and thought it was foolish that the Christians thought they could abuse him without him giving it back (just in the context of the Isolated monolouge- it's been a few years since I read the play)
Today one of my friends from last night pulled me aside and was like- angry crying. He mentioned Israel/Gaza. He asked me if I picked that monolouge because of current events. I said partially. He asked me what I was supporting and I said that I'm Jewish before I'm anything else. And I walked away because I was so upset then. He said that that didn't really answer his question.
I'm really upset. When I met him he was wearing a watermelon pin but this still surprised me. We've been good friends and I'm very sad. Angry. Scared. Scared that he'll tell our other friends and I'll lose them too. I don't know if I have many friends at all if I'm open about how I feel.
I just met a Mizrahi person whose surname is Ashkenazi.
Any bookies out here? I’m looking for books by Jewish authors—not about the Holocaust or being Jewish (I’ve read those), just books written by Jewish writers. If I were looking for any other kind of book suggestions, I would post in book recommendation subreddits, but I’m trying to avoid any negativity (sadly, that’s just how things are these days 😭). I just want to support, discover and fall in love with stories by Jewish authors. Any suggestions?
Hi! I’m a Reform conversion student. As you may have seen in some of my previous posts, I’m trying to get in the daily habit of davening. While (as I understand it) a large portion of the Amidah is usually recited silently, part of what’s moving for me is the musical nature of worship.
Reform doesn’t seem to have an easy to locate melody for the middle blessings (and honestly ones I really like for the final blessings either) nor for the weekday variants of prayers such as the Kedusha. I’ve come to really love the multiple melodies I’ve heard for the repetition of the Amidah used in Conservative shuls, but the words to the prayers are different than what is found in my Reform siddur.
Long story short, I was wondering if I could hire a cantor to record (even if it’s only on a phone) the Amidah (starting from the Kedusha on) using the words found in my siddur, so I could follow along and daven. I would preferably have a morning version, afternoon version, and evening version.
Thank you!
Don't really have a message other than gratitude, thanks, and continued well-being.
There was a Palestinian couple attacked by a woman at a Panera bread. They shouldn’t have been attacked.
The husband was interviewed by NBC Chicago, and in the interview the interviewer was talking about how this was a hate crime.
There have been endless attacks on Jews everywhere, there was a literal progrom in Amsterdam more than a week ago, and nothing from news media about how all these incidents are hate crimes.
If that couple were Israeli Jews people would be celebrating it.
Hello! So, I’m 17, I’ve decided that I want to get serious about converting to Judaism after years of thinking about it and learning about the religion. My family had been Jewish for a long, long time, but converted to Christianity around the 1940s, so I grew up in a weird mix of Jewish traditions that we just kept performing that were too ingrained in us to stop I guess, and basically a lukewarm Christianity environment elsewhere in our lives.
I don’t want to get super gushy about it, but I feel secure in my faith and I know that I’d devote myself to Judaism opposed to any other religion out there. I’ve tried my hand at exploring Christianity, I’ve explored Islam, even some sects of paganism I’ve spent time learning about and becoming familiar with the different cultures, but it has strongly and continuously all come back to Judaism, and it’s what I have my faith in more than anything else. One of my biggest mentors is Jewish, so they’ve given me a ton of reading to do over the last few years, including the Torah, Talmud, etc, including some of the books that were required in a few classes they took at their shul, and it’s what I’ve found truth in. I could go on, but I don’t want this to be too long, but to put it shortly: the way of life in Judaism is what makes sense to me, and I can’t imagine myself suddenly just deciding to be a Christian, or Muslim, or whatever else. I want to be Jewish officially so I can devote myself fully like I’d like to, and I’ve been inspired for years to do this, from learning about my grandparents who were Jews, learning about my distant relatives who are still out there who didn’t convert, and reading and rereading the scripture because it’s what brought me comfort and actually made me feel close to the divine for the first time.
My mentor has been doing their best to open a door for me so I can get introduced to synagogue life in a sense, and the people there at shul are the kindest I’ve ever met, and my mentor and other friends I’ve met really do feel like family to me at this point. I don’t mean to gush on about it, I know not every part of being Jewish is as ultimately perfect and shiny like I’m writing it out to be, but I love it, and I feel like I belong within it. I know that when I do convert there will obviously be struggles, I understand the severity of converting and that it’s not something that can be done on a whim without thought. I’m not good at putting my thoughts, especially these specifically, into a way that makes sense, but please know I do understand how important this process is, and that it’s long and filled with a lot of learning.
I’m just finding myself hitting a few roadblocks along the way, one of them being that I’m still technically a minor (not for long, but long enough for it to be frustrating waiting), and so obviously I can’t really start officially converting with how things are, at least in my state, which I’m not exactly sure about how it works other places but I’d assume the same?? Especially because my parents are a little apprehensive about everything, it’s beginning to pass the threshold of just antisemitism with their views on the war whereas they were just ignorant to everything before, and making it to where everything I do has to fit into the “good Jew” box they’ve apparently made up in order for me talking about it to be acceptable.
The other thing I’m kind of hitting a wall at is the rabbi at shul, he’s really nice! And he’s very smart, obviously, he’s just like… really socially awkward maybe?? That issue is a little more unique I think, whenever I ask him questions about it he just kind of… stares, and says something like “believe in yourself!” and then scuttles away. He also talks to so many people when I’m there that he’s too busy to really sit down with and have a discussion about it, but he’s said he’s confident I would be able to convert because I’m so determined, but that’s basically it..
Is there anything I can do while I’m sort of under my parents’ thumb? I know it’ll be easier when I age up, I guess, I’m just so anxious to actually do it that it’s driving me a little batty. If I said anything stupid in this I apologize, I’m not the best at making my thoughts make sense, like I’ve said before, I hope at least one person understands what I’m talking about.
Not really sure what else to do. The argument has quieted down but I'm still a bit incensed.
We were chatting about radicalism and everything in Scandinavia and the surrounding areas and I mentioned that the Netherlands had gotten a bit wild, in agreeance with what he said. He was confused and so I referred to the riots that occurred in Amsterdam.
Cue 20+ minutes of him going, 'well yea, foreign people came in and terrorized locals' and ignoring every instance where I pointed out where the violence was pre-meditated before any Israelis even arrived or did anything (even pointing out this was said by the mayor and reported on by Telegram and the BBC).
Obviously, yes. The shit that was said by both sides was wrong, and any vandalism that may have occurred by Maccabi fans was wrong. No duh. I also pointed out that those people should've been arrested and held to account, and that regardless, hunting down a group of people who mostly were unaffiliated beyond sharing an ethnicity/nationality with those who may have done wrong, is a bad thing to do.
For some reason, this wasn't acceptable to him, and he then began to go on about how it wasn't a pogrom and of course Israel would call it one (ignoring the fact that it literally had the characteristics of one) and had the gall to claim that by calling it a pogrom alongside the shit in Germany and Russia was blowing it way out of proportion and that all that happened was a hooligan riot, with his supporting evidence being that, 'no credible or serious source calls it a pogrom and the mayor said she was wrong to call it one'.
For context, I am American. We don't really have Football culture of this manner so maybe I'm just missing something, but I don't really see what I said here was wrong. If crimes are committed, people should be arrested. No one should be hunting anyone down in the street, and the bad actions of a small group of people don't justify things like setting tram cars on fire, and attacking anyone who even remotely 'looks' Jewish.
He was one of the people I was a lot more casual with and open about myself to but admittedly, I'm getting second thoughts about being as open. Dude's been really chill with me otherwise but unless I misunderstood him or Football culture, I'm kind of at a loss and not sure how to feel. I'm not wanting validation/vindication as much as I am wanting to ask genuinely if I was wrong in calling what happened a pogrom and if maybe I've missed something in this situation.
This is a question for any Israelis who may have served in the IDF during the 1950s. (The r/israel sub won't allow me to post because this is my new account with no significant posting history. So I hope it is okay for me to ask about it here?)
My late father was in the Israeli army during the 50s and would sometimes sing this song to me when we went on long walks. I wondered if anyone knows what it means and how it was used? AFAIK it was a marching song. I am not 100% sure on the lyrics/spelling.
Hey vivo, hey vavo
Hey vivo vavo vu
Lefty lefty bella bella befty
Tingly tingly luff luff luff