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I want to leave Orrhodoxy, but the main thing keeping me here is the thing about Christ preserving the Church, and the Church being the ones to give us the Biblical canon and the correct interpretation of Scripture. I’m just wondering, if we accept the Protestant position of the Church being “right about some things and wrong about others” that basically means the Bible we have was given to us by idolaters and people who believed “non-Biblical” things.

We've been catechumens for a while but we've recently begun pulling back. I feel awful about it... guilty. Especially as people at church continue to reach out (and apply pressure). Our priest texted and told us that they had missed us "both weeks" we were absent... specifically called out the fact that we missed two weeks in a row. Both weeks. Someone else checked in with me by text the other day, ostensibly to see how I'm doing with some family stressors (recent loss), but it appears they were actually trying to feel out my availability for joining the choir (I already said I couldn't three weeks ago, but they need people, so I guess figured they'd try again...). Another person just contacted me about whether my children will be able to participate an upcoming event and mentioned that "other families" have not been at church for weeks and this person doesn't know if they "left and went to another church or what." That text came at 8:45pm this evening. I'm starting to feel somewhat stressed about this. Three contacts in less than a week (including priest) is a lot, honestly.

If you left, what did you say to people? Did you remain friends with anyone? Did people start acting differently toward you? Did they try to reel you back in? Thanks for reading.

Have any of you been overzealous about Orthodoxy, leading to burnout and leaving the faith? How many of you think something like this played a role in your leaving Orthodoxy? I don't mean to be reductive or insulting here, nor am I asking if this was the only thing going on, but I would ask for some honest answers, as I see something like this happening within myself.

Does anyone here remember the Seinfeld episode where George converts to the Latvian orthodox Church? George is asked why he wants to convert:

" Priest: "Is there one aspect of the faith that you find particularly attractive?"
George: "I think the hats. The hat conveys that solemn religious look you want in a faith. Very pious."

Always thought that was so funny. Well just the other day I saw a clip from a video of a MP Bishop Sophrony of Cherkassy after he consecrated the new Abbess of a monastery and gives her a staff as part of the ceremony. Then he gives an example of how the staff comes in useful. You don't need a translator to see why monks or nuns wear the big hats. And how a bishop or head of a monastery uses it too.

https://www.facebook.com/viavakum/videos/1524779011502727/

The first category are people who want a rigid opressive tribal like structure in the societal superorganism. They see orthdoxy as a tool of achieving it. The majority of them are male but not only, and usually that desire is motivated by being not desired by women sexually. To fix that they need to create this oppressive structure. They can be spotted by their lack of interest in the teaching of the religon and going against the teaching when it does not suit the above mentioned goal.

• The second category are traumatised people, who want to experience the parental love they did not get from their parents. They desire to be adopted by a family. They search for a place like that and it makes them very suseptible to various cults.

They can be spotted by also not really carrying about the teachings of the faith, but they will display the signs trauma usually cptsd, and may ideolise the group and its members.

• the third category are narcistitic people who want to get fuel from abusing the positions of situational authority.

They also do not really care about the religions teaching (in terms of them being correct) but they will obssess about them being implemented and correctly observed even if they sre false.

Of cource thats a simplification, and people can have mixed traits. But what they have together is the fact that they do not care about the fact if the religion is True or not. This is why they are so easily trapped and its so hard for them to leave.

• it also seems like even if they leave, they exchange one false structure for another, for example a person from category 1 might say, oh islam or nationalsocialism fits the need for the fashistic structure better.

Or a person from the category two might say oh I do not feel very welcomed here, I will go to jehovas witnesses cause they seem so nice and welcoming. From the third category might conclude that there are mor efficient ways to gather fuel and narcicistic supply and for example focus on his corporate career.

The most noble category of people, are those who care about the Truth. They will leave a false religion if presented with arguments etc... and sufficient reason or spiritual experience, for it not being the True path. It is the Truth that sets free.

Tomorrow's the feast day of St. Barlaam and Josaphat. Is it really a copypasta of Buddha's biography? Does anyone know any historical sources of the story etc.?

I have observe it especially amongst cathodox "laypeople". When I show them the Bible (I am talking here mainly about older people) I get this suspicious look from them as if I am doing something I am not suppose to be.

It seems to me that the vast majority of cathodox is anti-intellectual. In the sense of being superstitoous and not caring about Truth itself. Their understanding of faith means accepting everything orthodoxy/catholicims tells them no matter how absurd it is.

In the past cathodoxy acitvly discouraged people from reading the Bible. The excuse for the anti-intellectual culture in the west that mant use today is that books were expensive, therefore it was impossible for the average peasant to be litellarate.

If this were true why were people in the talmudic community able to maintain litellaracy amongs them? Learning to read and write is very simple and to read the bible one book in a town is enough, parts of it could be copied by people themselves and everyone could have acess etc...

Not meditating on the Bible as a Christian, would be similar to saying to a talmudic believer that he is not suppose to read. Sure nowadays orthodox layconverts aee encouraged ro read the orthodox bible, and church fathers/saints, but I think that itself is not how cathodoxy was intended to be. Such a person is going to sooner or later see the cracks in the cathodox belief structure. He/she will be more knowledgable then the average priest, the established authority structure might be put under a lot of stress.

I was talking to an orthobro, and he full of positivity presented me a statistic showing that in contrast to other faiths in canada, orthodoxy is growing. He contributed that mainly to dyer and the online apologetics spehere.

At first it may seem like a positive from an orthdox perspective event. Yet, If narcistic, lonely, depressed, males are the ones who convert, and they do not change but get worse, its from an orthdox perspective a negative not a positive statistic.

People displaying such behavior will act like a deterent for other potential converts, who are not like them. Especially women are repulsed by it. In the past it was not really a functional issuse for them, women were sadly forced by males to larp as orthodox but now luckily its no longer the case.

There is not much orthodoxy can offer women, besides adopting the pagan godess identity, and tunnel vision on trying to brainwash their child to be narcicstic suplly, and unnessarly chosing a narcistic husband to be abused by.

Someone once wrote that followers of islam, are often violent, ugly and stupid. Which makes sense since its an incel religon. Orthodoxy in the west seems to follow the same pattern. Its paradoxical how unorthdox orthobros are in their behavior, they do not resemble obiediant ascentic monks nor docile peseants. They behave like sharia muslims.

The thing with obviously cracking intellectually systems is that people who care about Truth will sooner or later see the falsehood and leave. Those who stay despite knowing, either refuse to see it, cognitivly block it out or do not care at all.

This leads to more people gaining positions of power in the system, who do not believe in the system at all but see it mererly as a powerprojection. This leads to more abuse and corruption.

What about still praying to the Mother of God or to the Saints?

From comedy metal band Psychostick, a Thanksgiving-themed parody of Slipknot's "Get This!"

https://youtu.be/UQANj1qlZdo?si=V9OOU_-cpSEQb8IZ

Over on an Anglican board, an Anglican had this to say about his time in Eastern Orthodoxy:

"Basically once you go through a few liturgical cycles and you're done being overwhelmed by the beauty of the worship and the rigor of the fasting rules, you realize there's nothing lying beneath all of that except bare obedience. Nothing is questioned, goofy scholarship is presented as learning, and there are no solid intellectual resources for apologetics, evangelism, etc."

Has anyone on this board experienced "goofy scholarship...presented as learning?"

I am a cradle Levantine Orthodox, and I have reached my breaking point with the ongoing issues within the Antiochian Orthodox Church. Zehlaoui adultery scandal, my ortho bro priest keeps annoying me about finding a husband when I been always sure I do not want to marry a Christian Orthodox man, the lack of geniunine love and compassion between each other in our community, ROC patriarch and John x supporting each other while Russia is killing many innocents. Racism towards Muslims is prevalent, particularly since many of us individuals in our community are Arab.

That's enough of antiochian orthodoxy. I'm done with this shitty cultic community.

I think many here saw the famous, orthodox mumiefied foot water video. Yet It may be not obvious ar first how messed up the theological implications of such acitvities are.

A female collegue of mine from ukraine (she is greek catholic). Carries with herself a bottle of so called holy water. When she drinks a glass of water she pours it into her drink so she may be healthy.

If someone believes that it is the water itself that has a spiritual property x making one healthy? How is that doffrent from magic?

In praxis it means that there are people running around with objects that they see as having a sort of spirtual power from God, like medalion etc... that make it possible for them to achieve something special.

For example, this female collegue of mine, says she wears a marian medalion ans because of it she will avoid purgatory if she keeps a promise and does x.

It reminds me of hacking. A way of fidning a devoution or special prayer that somehow lets one escape or get benefits in a system. Like cheat codes in a video game.

It shows how Cathodoxy, did the same thing what gnostics did to Christanity it merelry adopted Christian labels, but the core of the pagan practice stayed the same.

And just like ancient druids in celctic europe before Cesar, performed their magic rituals and were the spiritual leaders of their communities. So are the cathodox priests today.

When reading the Bible and most importantly expieriencing the presenta of the Holy Spirit, one realises how false demonic the cathodox (catholic-orthodox) view of God is.

They project a traumatic and evil family structure they have experienced onto God. God is viewed as a harsh father, who is stern and fast to judge. To appease him the child needs to do activites for him. He cannot be aproached directly when the child messes up. Instead its the more forgiving and emapthetic mother (their false conception of Mary) that needs to be apraoched and then she will beg the father not to punish and forgive the child altough he might be at first unwilling to do so.

This is why the Marian cult grew since the beggining of cathodoxy. Their delusion needs a female diety. Otherwise their religion is like a household with a violent father with no mother to balance it. An uncomplete family.

Its blasphemous to say that mary is more forgiving than Christ. And that it is she that has to beg him so He will forgive someone.

People become who and what they worship. In my experience with people who fall victim worshiping the demonic energy that presents itself as Mary but is not, display a level of demonic possesion (narcicism) that is sort of masked by a false conception of motherly care.

They will do things for you, like cook and clean out of their own will, but when one says pls do not do it etc.. they will disregard it.

• They have no respect for boundaries.

They will not listen or even use arguments against a point made. They will be willfully ignorant and dimiss it by saying things likeyou are too young/old etc....

• They are too arrogant to listen

They have an aversion for Wisdom, they hate to read, especially the Bible. They are proud of their foolishness and naivity.

• They wage a war against Wisdom

Their identity is not placed in Christ, but is placed in a female deity that is viewed as being above Christ in virtue.

We have had conversations in the past about the involvement of Orthodox clergy in politics, but the mask has fallen off completely in Romania. The ugly truth is shoved into everyone's faces.

Romania is in the middle of presidential elections and there is a surprise candidate who won the first round. Among their opinions (really fun to read no needfor me to repeat), there is the lovely one where they consider actual nazi leaders in the 1930s as national heroes. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/who-is-romanias-surprise-hard-right-presidential-candidate-2024-11-25/

Since Sunday, Orthodox priests and monks have come out in mass in public support of his presidency, including during sermons.

In 4 days we already have two bishops who needed to publicly recognize that multiple of their clergy are involved as well as several other priests with online presence whose bishop is likely in silent agreement. And we have 10 more days until the second round of elections.

The Patriarch came out condemning involvement in politics, but priests continued to post on Facebook, referring to the candidate by name, not even trying to be subtle.

Just pointing that out. I've posted before about how viewing scripture through the lens of Judaism was probably the main thing that made me abandon the orthodox church, and anyone who's spent even a little bit of time learning about the Hebrew language would learn very quickly that the -im suffix makes a noun plural. This has hilarious implications as far as orthodoxy posing as the successor to the Jewish faith and referring to the church as "Israel" so frequently in hymnography and liturgies. It is also hilarious when you consider how much ortho converts love the various "Saint Seraphims" and will even take their name at baptism.

I was wandering through the posts on the main Orthodox sub, and I noticed comments which restate the belief that other Christians (in this case Catholics) are not discerning enough of their spiritual experiences, and contrary to their own understanding of the experience, are in fact in prelest (spiritual delusion).

While Orthodox guard in prayer against demons masquerading as angels of light, might there be prelest in hypervigilance and ascribing every unfavorable circumstance to the demons, to spiritual attacks, even when they're more ascribable to human behavior and psychological defense mechanisms?

For example, a priest is criticized for having shamed a parishoner in one of his homilies, after the parishoner shared personal misgivings. Instead of acknowledging any potential wrongdoing, the priest digs in and makes it about a demonic or spiritual attack against him and the well-being of the church.

Also, might there be prelest in automatically discounting as demonic religious experiences that support beliefs not consistent with current Orthodox belief (e.g. "I am the Immaculate Conception" said by Mary at Lourdes per Catholics), because they go against confirmation biases, while readily propagating ancient pious legends and reported appearances of saints, which may have little basis in historical fact but which support confirmation biases within Orthodoxy (e.g. the scrolls and St Euphemia)?

I came close to becoming Orthodox after good friends of mine went to the ROCOR after being with the SSPX for a few years. While I remained in the SSPX for a year after they left, I too left them but I'm hanging on a thread to remain catholic. This sub has been helpful on 2 fronts. One, it made me realize that Orthodoxy leaves much to Be desired and two, it's not much different here than in Catholic trad circles.

My friend recently posted this story about a mothers prayer for a wayward child. I wonder what would a person would do that believed like this and then finds out their child remains that way? These stories only ever tell you the good part when the bad part happens more often.

There was a worthless drunkard, a thief and a bum with impudent eyes. His mother prayed for him day and night with tears. Her son often hurt her, but she trusted in God. He drank her last kopeck, but his mother forgave and bore it all. One day her patience ran out and she cried, "All in vain, no salvation, I cant pray for him." And, oblivious to a heavy sleep, she sees Satan sitting on his throne. He shouts, he rages in his anger, he asks the demons angrily: "Why is this alcoholic, hooligan and thief wandering in the world? Why have you not yet brought me this crooked soul?" "The torments of hell have long been ready," they said, "but the mothers prayer saves. The powers of darkness are powerless against her." Suddenly the little demon flies in hastily: "At last the battle is won! Gather for the sinful soul.The mothers prayer has fallen silent!" The pack of demons with laughter fled away. The mother, awakened, knelt down. "Lord, forgive me this weakness!" And since then the prayer has not been silent.

Father Artemy Vladimirov

Another memory I have of being Orthodox was the forums where parents would talk about the difficulty their sons or daughters had with finding suitable Orthodox spouses. I also talked to other single people who had the same concern, and honestly, some of their solutions were downright creepy. Did anybody else deal with this sort of thing?

By popular request: I was an Orthodox monk for 12 years. AMA!

Note: For personal safety reasons, I'm not going to say where I was a monk.

Another indicator of a high-control religion.

Shower thought which just occurred to me about Orthodoxy.

So, I became Orthodox when I was 17, then was a monk for 12 years, and I left monasticism three years ago, and Orthodoxy about a year and a half ago.

Except, this past summer I went back to the country I am from, and where I was a monk, and I saw a lot of my old "monk friends." The situation just put a certain amount of pressure on me to "return" to Orthodoxy, which I did, but also half not knowing what I was even doing and also conscious I was just doing it to "fit in." I had not had a major change of heart, to be sure.

Then when I returned from my trip to that country, I tried to keep up being Orthodox again, but it simply just doesn't work for me. I finally realized a year and a half ago that God does not want me to beat myself up, and that for me, that is what Orthodoxy had been for a long time, and so it was okay to let Orthodoxy go. In the words of a friend, who is not Catholic btw, he just saw that Catholicism went a lot smoother for me and didn't make me crazy, "It's okay to just be Catholic!" Somehow that stuck. And things went well that way.

But coming back into Orthodoxy since the summer, I see "the crazy" in me rearing its head again and I just won't do it anymore to myself. There is no virtue in that. But despite knowing this, it is really hard for me to knock the thought that "I am going to hell now" because I'm going to a Catholic and not Orthodox church.

I guess while still in Orthodoxy, before I went over to the Catholics, I had already been "softened up" to make the move because I had studied in a (liberal) Orthodox theology faculty, where the widespread belief was that Catholicism and Oriental Orthodoxy are equally valid to Eastern Orthodoxy. I saw from actual canons and church councils and writings of the saints that the extreme Orthodox position that only the Orthodox Church is valid and that the slightest deviation from that deprives you of all grace, is itself untenable in light of history and the documents of councils. There is certainly some wiggle room in which you are still a church and with real sacraments, even in the view of actual Orthodox official documents. This was far from the Orthodoxy I had known, which was pretty fundamentalist, and one group I was involved in really was a cult in retrospect, but having learned those things, it came to the point of "So if I can just go to the Catholics and not endure all this grief and abuse, why am I still submitting myself to all this abuse for the sake of getting sacraments?"

And in the Catholic Church, things generally go well for me. I am more interested in going to church and praying, whereas when I am "trying to be Orthodox" this past summer, it mostly resulted in me not really going to church much and not praying at all because it all was just too much for me, triggers too many very bad memories.

So even though I know experientially, theologically, and historically that this is fine, to be Catholic, I am still constantly nagged by this fundamentalist Orthodox mindset I had for so long, the thought "This isn't real" or "You are going to hell." But I tried going back and I just...can't. I can't do it.

It isn't any particular practice or belief (I think at root my faith is basically the same, just less exclusivist), it's all the horrible, abusive experiences I had as an Orthodox and especially as a monk. I can't separate that from general Orthodox church life, not even in the country I live in now, where none of those harmful people are here.

I have come to see that Orthodoxy has a lot of sophistry in it. If something is very difficult for me, but that thing is "more Orthodox," then it means the demons are attacking me to try to stop me. If something is hard but not Orthodox, then it's a sign that God doesn't want it to happen. If something is easy, but again "more Orthodox," then it is God blessing me and protecting me to be Orthodox. If something is easy but not Orthodox, then it's a sign the demons are leaving me alone because I am already lost. It's like, well which is it?? Orthodox have created a whole mindset that blocks out any critical thinking or any individual interpretation of one's own life experiences, such that Orthodoxy is always right and I am always wrong, even in things pertaining to my own life. Logically, it makes no sense.

I just needed to get this out there somewhere. Do the rest of you have this experience, this nagging thought of "I am going to hell"? Or the belief that even if it makes me into a terrible person engaging in all sorts of passions to numb the pain of being Orthodox, it is worth it because being Orthodox is more important than anything else? Part of my story is that WHILE I was a monk, I got addicted to drugs and alcohol (I had never tried them before!), just to deal with all the horrible things I saw and was subjected to. So for me, there is this thought "Maybe God doesn't want me to be sober, maybe God would rather that I'm an addict but Orthodox."

Clarification: I don't think the Catholic Church is "more right" than the Orthodox Church, just that they're both valid apostolic traditions. It's just somewhere that is pretty similar to what I believe, and where there are sacraments, and where I can go without having a panic attack. I also have at various times attended Syriac Orthodox and Church of the East parishes since I left EO. I sometimes jokingly refer to myself as "apostolic fluid" with my friends, but it's also kind of accurate!

Hi, another question. My husband pointed out today that when we first started inquiring, our priest asked me to list for him any Orthodox-related materials we’d read so far. I think he might have said there are things that we shouldn’t be looking at. It was something along those lines, even if I’m paraphrasing. Hubby assumed that our priest wanted to make sure we weren’t consuming inaccurate information about the faith. However, now that I’ve been digging deeper with a more critical posture, I’m encountering a lot of weird and esoteric writings that reveal a far more cultish/mystical aspect of the church. Is this a thing? Similar to how the Scientologists forbid you to read certain texts until you reach a higher level within the organization? Are they purposely steering inquirers/catechumens away from material that might alert them to how wackadoodle some of their beliefs are? Because there’s clearly a lot going on under the surface that isn’t at all what’s presented to new inquirers. Talking about the hardcore asceticism and gnostic beliefs about theosis and stuff. Thanks!

Edited for detail/clarity.

My priest told me before I was chrismated that after chrismation I would be attacked harder by demons. I did indeed have a pretty rough experience immediately after chrismation of high anxiety and just general apathy toward EO practices. To be fair, I was chrismated immediately before lent so maybe that played a role. I prayed through it though until I was able to be “more” orthodox again.

Did anyone else have this experience or hear this from a priest? I wonder why it happens.

My priest told me it’s like a marriage. After you get married then the honey moon phase is over and the reality of your spouse makes them less desirable. This didn’t happen with my marriage though. So the analogy never made sense to me.

As a woman, I actually really enjoy headscarves. I think they can be really pretty and it frustrates me that they’re immediately associated with religion. Now, people would be more likely to assume that I’m muslim if I wore it, but still. Make headscarves secular! I want an alternative when I have a bad hair day.

A very minor complaint but it is something I kind of miss about going to church

This guy makes some good points. How is it that the largest organized orthodox congregation-Russian Orthodox is led by FSB/KGB? They are used by Putin as an arm of his propaganda. Putin is not religious, he is superstitious.