/r/EuropeFIRE
This sub is about reaching and maintaining financial independence in Europe, where financial independence means that working is not a necessity.
See our Europe FIRE wiki for an explanation of FIRE.
This sub is about reaching and maintaining financial independence in Europe. Financial independence means that working is not a necessity.
Peer2Peer loans, crowd lending, crypto currencies etc. is not allowed on this sub unless it is content from one of the major journalistic outlets (and certainly not your blog).
I understand you want to promote your blog/website/etc, but this is not the place to post your monthly updates. You can submit once but it may be removed and you should ask permission for any second post.
Blogs and info:
Related subs:
Country-specific subs:
/r/EuropeFIRE
I've followed FIRE for some years now and have saved quite a bit in my IRA/401k/HSA/individual portfolio, etc. but I know most of these investment vehicles are US-only or only tax advantaged in the US.
What options do I have in the EU? Is there a FIRE flowchart EU-edition?
edit below
Hello european friends. I am in a bit of a cross path in my life. I am in my mid 20s and have a bachelors in economics and right now following a average to ok salary career in tech in the NL. The thing is, I feel I have so much more to offer to the job market. Since I am still relatively young and reckless, I would be open to get into a new field even if it means restarting a bachelors.
But I am confused on what field to take. First of all, I’m not ashamed to say it I want a high-paying field, like you bust your back in uni and get great starting salaries (dentistry for example). And also I am willing to put in the work (im not asking for an easy path per se) and consider myself pretty smart so it would even be a benefit for me to do something more mentally challenging than managing customers in a tech firm like now.
What are great fields I can pivot into even if it means restarting my bachelors where I would get a high paying career in the NL or western europe in general?
I am young and still have the energy for it so I think if I wanna make this decision, I have to do consider it now. Please note I am open to relocation. I am fluent in French and English and decent in Spanish. I am also open to learning Dutch since I am based in the Netherlands.
Edit: Thank you for your amazing insights! I gotta say i am leaning more towards dentistry. All the finance/IT recommendations sound good on paper but are reliant very much on luck, and at this stage of my life, i would like to prioritize what looks like a clearer pathway in dentistry...unless i am missing something, then please comment :)
Do you have a feel that most of the apps we use to manage our investments are over-complicated / provide poor experience?
I tried 10+ different apps by my 4y. long investing journey. Some of them were free, for some I payed my subscription.
Most of them had complicated, laggy user interfaces, poor data visualisations or (instead) everything was over-complicated.
- Lot’s of features I never used but payed for. Lot’s of weird looking 20 columns -long tables.
- Lot’s of stupid experiences basically saying “upload your CSV report, but before find it somwhere. Where? We don’t really have any idea, but only then you will be able to use our app”.
- Lot’s of cases when my canadian stock wasn’t supported.
- Lot’s of cases when I saw one numbers in my brokerage accounts and completely oposite numbers in tracking apps.
- Lot’s of cases when I could not properly manage multiple portfolios from one account or it was too complicated.
- Lot’s of cases when app had 15+ different features, but used only 5 of them, but payed for the rest as well.
Pain, nothing to say more here.
Meanwhile, after 4 years of my struggles of searching of “that one app” I built a custom solution for myself and my frends-investors - simple and aesthetic. One dashboard and nothing else.
Please, share your stories in a comments about your experiences with different apps.
What do you like / don’t like about the tracking apps you're using now?
Hey everyone!
I’m a 39M living in Germany with my wife and one child, and I’m trying to get some perspective on my retirement investment strategy to see if I might be going overboard.
My net worth is primarily tied up in four properties with about €500,000 in equity. I also have €36,500 in stocks and ETFs, €45,000 in a company pension, and keep around €20,000 in a high-yield savings account. My annual income is around €150,000, and my yearly expenses total approximately €50,000.
Each month, I invest €2,400 solely toward retirement( private and company pension) , put an additional €1,300 into ETFs, and save €600. I’ve also saved up 24 points in the German pension system, which could lead to a pension of €4,000–€5,500 monthly if I retire at 67 and continue contributing at the same rate .i spend my savings on travel and other stuff.
The issue is that I often feel a bit short on cash by the middle of the month. I love my job but realistically don’t see myself working until 67. I’d prefer to retire closer to 60–62 if possible.
Am I investing too much into retirement, and should I consider spending a bit more now to improve my current lifestyle?
Would love to hear your thoughts! Thanks in advance.
Edit1: 150k euros is my gross yearly salary
Edit2: Its 500k euros equity in total in 4 properties including my primary home
I'm a 20y/o portuguese investor with a low income compared to most of you guys. Well, you might know how fucked Portugal is in relation to the wages and prices of housing and other living expenses.
Here's what I'm sitting at:
6.5k invested:
80% ACC. S&P500 ETF - VUAA.
10% DIST. ETF's; - FUSD(5%), VHYD(5%).
10% STOCKS - NVIDIA (60% - 3 shares), Realty Income (40% - 5 shares).
And outside of those 6.5k, I have 500 euros in Trading 212 giving me 4% APY, paid monthly (soon reducing to 3.70%)
My yearly income is around 13,3k euros after taxes, and I've been investing since 2022. I try to contribute a minimum of 200€ monthly into my portfolio. And now I find myself in a position where I can actually up it up to 500€ comfortably. I live with my parents, so my living expenses are pretty low since I also don't have much time to actually spend the money I work in the day and study at night.
With this big increase of the monthly contribution to my portfolio, some questions appeared:
1º - Should I be worried about the market being so high? What are the best things a passive investor can do while the market is at such record-high? Just keep DCAing? Or holding into it inevitably crashes?
2º- I want to start turning a little bit more into Europe too, my portfolio is almost 100% NA. Are there any good european etf's, like an S&P500 but for european companies??? x)
3º- Would you change anything in my investment strategy? Would you, for example, change the current monthly split of 80/10/10?
4º- As well-seasoned european investors, are there any tips that you can give to a newbie like me?
Thank you so much for your attention and help!!
OBS: Yes, I do have an emergency fund!
You/Your company operates/looks for the following:
You can decide on any European country, which one would it be?
Hi!
After carefully looking through reddit and going in circles I finally manned up to ask for some advice.
Little background:
I have been making around 5-7k euro per month for the last few years. Not bad and I never thought I would be able to put my hands on that kind of money in my life. But in the beginning of the year I made some new connections. Implemented some new and forgotten ideas and BAM! I made around 10k euro in July, around 15k in August and 20k in September. The future is looking bright. I don't think I would be able to make more than 25-30k per month but that does not upset me. My business partner (big insurance company) is very pleased with my performance. They are profiting a lot from what I am doing and I think that if nothing extraordinary happens I will be able to do that for at least for more years. Probably way more. Work is hard, stressful and engaging but worth the money in my opinion. I worked harder for much less in the past. I would be just shame to waste such an opportunity to set me and my wife up for easy retirement.
I don't want to learn how to trade. Don't want to use forex. No crypto. Etc. I' not looking for a fast and easy way to get crazy rich. Don't want any side business I am fairly good (and keep getting better) in making money in my current industry.
I want (need) a plan to put my cash somewhere else then the checking account. I buy some land from time to time as an investment. I buy and flip some classic cars. But that takes a lot of time and drags me away from my main source of income.
I read some beautiful stories about capital gains on a few of the subreddits. And I want to follow their path. Safely and one step at a time. After researching I pretty much decided to save some money in the funds.
My initial idea is: SP500 index - ~50% Nasdaq index - ~40% MSFT - ~10% - a bit of a gamble, but I have a soft spot for M$ for a long time and have been using their products for decades now.
My monthly contributions will vary depending on the month and earnings. But let's say it will be around 1-2k euro minimum. But I will try to make bigger ones from time to time. Looking for a 10-15 year investment.
Am I doing anything wrong? Any idea, advice or criticism helps. Thanks in advance!
I recently discussed with one of my American friends and I realised they do their investing through other companies, not on their own and I wanted to ask your opinions on that. From what he and another friend told me, they had an average yearly return of 30%-32% for the past years. While something like VWCE has 10.5%.
I couldn't believe it, it sounds too good. Does any of you have experience with this in Europe?
Hi, everyone,
We as a family have been fortunate enough to earn a decent income. However we are not sure what do to next., as we aim for FIRE in the next 10 years.
Current aim is to start investing, however not sure how and where and what to do. Currently tracking an opportunity to invest in a carbon composite manufacturing business.
I would highly appreciate any tips, tricks and advice on where and how to distribute the money we can save up in order to ensure at least enough growth to reach our FIRE number.
Current envisioned FIRE numbers at 4% withdrawal rate + safety net; taking into consideration that we can save aprox 89k NET per year we hope to invest enough to reach RegularFIRE in 10 years.
Me and my partner have the following financial situation:
3 income streams totaling EUR 131k NET :
savings:
depreciating assets with current value at ~30k:
yearly costs totaling EUR 41.3k with maybe some variance depending on hobby spendings:
Best regards,
Your friendly neighbour
A friend is owning an apartment in the countryside of Bosnia and offered me to live in it rent free for as long as he's not there if I can help him fix some work around it.
This means, I can have that unit for at least the next 5 years or so and the main question is as follows:
If I register my new address to be solely in bosnia, I'll pay 10% tax on my income as a remote worker AND I don't have to pay any rent. So the plan would be to fix some stuff in the apartment over the autumn etc. and travel Europe for the rest of the year but keeping myself registered in Bosnia.
FYI: I have German citizenship
Hell everyone.
I'm 23 years old from Greece.
Up until 2 years ago I was pretty much investing most of what I was making and had small cash reserves, until some unfortunate events came and I had to cash out a big chunk of my investments to cover the costs, that being In a bad time to sell too, mostly ETFs and some individual stocks too.
So since that experience I've started mostly saving cash and investing less as I want to build a good emergency fund, at the moment it's at a point where it covers around 12 months of full living expenses. I've only recently reached my previous financial position again and got my head above water.
So the predicament I'm in is do I continue to stack cash and where do I stop, or do I put make weight towards the ETFs, on one hand I'm scared of any unexpected expenses again, on the other hand FoMO kicks in seeing potential lost gains.
Regardless of this dilemma I still have a direction and goal that I want to achieve financially, just hoping to get some advice from some more experienced folks in here.
If I build a successful career and start earning a solid income while living in Europe, my long-term goal is to achieve FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early). I plan to live frugally, buy apartments to rent out, and invest in a way that allows me to accumulate significant wealth, ideally reaching millions within the next 10 years. Could you explain how I should approach this plan step by step?
What should I consider specifically when investing in European real estate, such as location, financing options, property management, and tenant laws?
How do I maximize rental income while living frugally and balancing my investments? Are there specific financial planning strategies or investment opportunities in Europe that could help accelerate my path to FIRE?
Additionally, what risks should I be aware of in both real estate and other investments, and how can I mitigate them to stay on track for early retirement?
Thanks in advance!
I’m a 30F married to 33M. We have been working for some time as you can imagine and only this year our combined savings reached €27.000 which I thought was a huge achievement. I’ve been on this group for an hour now and I want to cry. From the questions here it seems like everyone our age group or less is saving €50.000+?? What did I do wrong?? Is that the norm in the EU? I’m a resident here not a citizen and don’t know the savings culture that apparently everyone else knows
EDIT: That’s our entire savings not a one-year thing, I just meant that this’s the first year we reach that number. I’m located in NL. From the answers, it seems like this’s below average in NL?
Assuming you planned to retire within 5 years, would you invest in VWCE or SXR8, for the most part?
For retiring, I mean literally withdrawing say 3.5-4% a year for the rest of your life. Isn't it true that if US market keeps outperforming other countries in the next years, you could theoretically withdraw a bit more over the years, or that your nest would survive for longer?
Hello, EuropeFIRE! I'm hoping someone who's been in a similar situation can shed some light on this because there are so many varying answers on this topic and it's a bit complicated.
Basically, our situation is as follows:
My current understanding is that we are basically screwed on this front, because of PFIC, and the fact that we will not be able to invest through a US brokerage if we no longer have a US address. Is this really the case? I've spent an embarrassingly long time trying to find answers on this specific situation to no avail, so I'd be extremely grateful for any insights anyone might be able to provide!
Hello everyone, I’m a 20 year old student from Belgium and I’ll hopefully graduate next year in Finance & Insurance. I have 30k invested in IWDA AND EMIM ETFs and like 700 bucks in crypto. The last weeks I have really been thinking about what to do after I graduate. I wanna achieve FIRE as quickly as possible. I’m scared Belgium isn’t the best place for that with high taxes and weird government. I speak French, Spanish, English and Dutch. I’m willing to relocate anywhere and just get a girlfriend there and come back every 3 months or so for friends and family. Where would you guys try to go/what advice can you give me. Thanks a lot in advance!
Please disregard this post. I put it in the incorrect subreddit
Hi everyone!
I’m reaching out for some travel advice as my wife and I are planning a 10-day trip to Europe in May 2025, ideally leaving the week of either May 12 or May 19. We want to keep our budget under $5,000, excluding meals and other tours/attractions, and are considering traveling from either El Paso, TX, or Phoenix, AZ, depending on the best fare.
Here are the destinations we’re looking at:
We’re particularly interested in visiting museums and natural attractions, and we enjoy a mix of sightseeing and relaxation. Trying local food is also a must!
I found some options on tripmasters.com that include flights, hotels, and some meals, but I’d appreciate any recommendations for other reputable travel agencies.
We’re also curious about:
Thanks so much for your help!
Hi everybody,
After lurking for some time, I thought it's time to make a post myself. I'm 24 years old, based in Luxembourg and self employed. I'm making pretty decent money right now (between 5-7k gross per month) and barely have any expenses as I'm still living at home with my parents.
I have been in Crypto since 2017, so I guess I've got a little bit of knowledge in the "financial market", but I am yet to invest any money into ETF's, etc.
I've got a 50k lump sump available right now that I am ready to invest and were planning on putting an additional 1000€ monthly into buying ETF's (although, while my expenses are as low as they are right now, I could probably increase this amount to 2k+ for the time being).
Regarding debts, I've got a 35.000€ student loan, where I'm being charged 2% interest and the loan has to be paid back until 2035.
The 2 ETF's I have been looking at are: VWCE & IWDA
So now onto my questions:
Again, I'm very new to the world of investing & etf's so please bear with me.
Thanks in advance!
Hi all,
I’m in my mid-20s and have been learning about FIRE. My current situation:
I’m considering two main investment options and would love advice from the community, especially from those experienced with real estate and ETFs.
I’m looking at a small property in a seasonal area (ski resort in winter, mountain biking in summer) priced at around €65k. I would put down 10% with a 20-year mortgage. I’ve considered property management, utilities, cleaning (Airbnb model), and some factors like seasonal demand.
Here’s a simplified idea of the costs and potential income based on seasonal occupancy:
Fixed monthly expenses (mortgage, utilities, maintenance, etc.): ~€400/month
In season (high occupancy):
Out of season (low occupancy):
Overall average monthly profit: ~€800 - €900 across the year, considering 4 months of high season and 8 months of low season.
The pros:
The cons:
The other option is to invest in VWCE (Vanguard FTSE All-World ETF), a globally diversified, low-cost ETF. With my €1000/month, I could steadily invest for long-term growth.
The pros:
The cons:
I’m torn between buying a property that could provide semi-passive rental income and the simplicity and liquidity of ETFs. Real estate appeals to me, but the commitment and ongoing costs make me hesitant. Of course, real estate also comes with the advantage of allowing me to use the property, which is in an attractive location where I go to vacation in winter anyway. ETFs seem simpler, but I worry about missing out on the returns from rental income and potential property appreciation.
What would you recommend for someone in my position? Should I go for the property or focus on ETFs? Any experiences or insights would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance!
Hi, I (M33) am living in Germany and have the opportunity to buy via a friend a renovated 80m2 apartment in a university town near Alicante in Spain for 100k.
I am myself Spaniard and my family lives 1h away from Alicante.
I have 90k invested in a global ETF and 60k in cash. Given the RE prices in Germany, I don’t see myself buying a house that I like in an area that I like for myself. I also don’t know if I am going to stay in the same place in the long run.
The idea would be to buy this apartment in Spain starting with 40-50k downpayment and then rent it (I calculated between 700-900 per month based on prices in the area).
I am just not sure about the cost opportunity, as I could simply continue investing in the ETF, and also I am a bit scared of the apartment giving me headaches, especially because I don’t live in Spain, though my family could give me a hand.
Is it good to start with diversification already? I might even think in the future, when it is completely paid off, to use it as my working base in winter, but this is a bit too far fetched and for now what it matters to me is the financial aspect. Thanks
Hi guys,
Newbie here, so please be patient.
I'm currently based in Prague and am about to start putting aside some money each month into something supersafe like an index tracker. The tax situation here in Czechia is great and that's fine.
What if I were to move to the UK for a couple of years? Could I leave the investment account here and keep paying into it? Or does it have to follow me? Obviously my personal tax situation would change if I moved, but could I leave the account here in CZ?
In which places in Europe, except for Italy, is still possible to buy decent apartments around 100k euros?
Edit: the purpose is to stop paying rent because I’m tired of constant increases and having to move from one Airbnb to another.
It should be a Shengen country and it should not be Italy/Spain/France…I prefer central or eastern europe.
The bigger the city the better.
Im a tax resident in Spain, I want to be able to live off that money here. What is the best way to go about it?
From my research, dividends are pointless. You lose 15% on USD ETFs. I think you cannot recover this, only with individual stocks, and I don't want the risk and hassle of individual stocks. Yes im aware of W8BEN, that is to get 15% instead of 30% took by Uncle Sam, but that does not mean you will be able to get it back.
For instance, ETFs that are about real state, I think you are not getting back anything, and with the rest, you have to stay on top of regulation and also each country has their own tax treaties and different bs you have to monitor. I pay an accountant but this is just annoying.
Why not just go all in on something like SP500 or MSCI World UCITS product and get 3 to 3.5% manual withdraws max/year? It should be safe and still grow the amount you withdraw as long as you respect this 3 to 3.5% max yearly withdraws.
Having bonds seems dumb and just gives you an illusion of less volatility but higher chances to end up consuming your principal according to what I have researched:
So basically, what you want is to stomach the volatility and respect the fact that you cannot get cute trying to withdraw more than 3.5%. If you cannot live while following this rule, it just means you don't have enough money, and will end up withdrawing too much, or buying dillutive products like JEPI which pay a lot of dividend while they cannot even beat inflation on the principal trying to compensate this fact.
Contrary to dividends, you can withdraw each month only what you will use, and leave the rest invested. Every € you withdraw that you don't spend, has to be reinvested, but you already paid taxes on these dividend payments. So it seems more efficient, to manually withdraw what you need, rather than get money in tranches every quarter or so, that you will not even consume fully, to then have to reinvest it after paying taxes, which means you would be lossing 19%+ there vs just having it on the accumulation ETF or index fund and withdraw only what you need.
ETFs that pay dividend that I was considering were:
ps://www.justetf.com/en/etf-profile.html?isin=IE00B8GKDB10#dividends
https://www.justetf.com/en/etf-profile.html?isin=DE000A0F5UH1#dividends
https://www.justetf.com/en/etf-profile.html?isin=IE00B9CQXS71#dividends
https://www.justetf.com/en/etf-profile.html?isin=IE00BYXVGX24#dividends
But since the whole thing of paying taxes on the dividends, then having to ask that you get returned any double taxation things when you file taxes and hoping they give it back, and not even knowing if I will get 100% of taxation back.. its just convoluted and I think it's jut cleaner to liquidate manually from the SP500 or MSCI World pot and then get the exact amount of money you need for expenses, always respecting this 3.5% max withdraw yearly.
TL;DR/conclusion: Withdrawing manually from an SP500 or MSCI World fund while respecting a 3.5% max withdraw yearly seems more efficient tax wise, seems cleaner on the final amount you get due no double-taxation bs that you may or not get back upon request, and thus better than getting dividends. Please discuss.
Hello, I wanted to purchase a small property to diversify my investment portfolio. I was told that some of the small towns around Czech (Karviná, Přerov, Usti nad Labem, etc.) offer cheap properties that are a good investment opportunity. I have a few inquiries, and would be grateful if anyone could help: 1) Does anyone have any experience doing something like this? I have also read on other sub that the real estate market in Czech is terrible at the moment because of the interest rates?
Thanks in advance for your help, much appreciated!
There is no doubt that EU has a major problem with innovation and ease of doing business. Even the few atreprenors that made it big in Europe are raising an alarm.
PS: Also the direct link to the initiative's site https://www.eu-inc.org/
49M, Engineer, PhD, caver, living in a van (beautiful, new, 2021, paid in full). No other physical properties. I now work on 1-2 remote projects per year. Would like to stop.
Net monthly expenses, calculated over the course of the last 24 months: 1128 EUR. That's 14K EUR per year.
I move constantly: Italy (over 6 months per year including the summer), Spain, Morocco, Canary Islands, Tunisia, Malta...
No children, no companion, no liabilities except for a few thousand euros of taxes to be paid next year.
I think I could stop working now, but will my life always be so frugal? What if I end up with a woman? ;) Please debate and roast my portfolio.
Hello fellows, I am setting up an xls sheet to simulate the numbers for FIRE and I have a big doubt, maybe someone can point me in the right direction.
I have a portfolio consisting of 5 accumulation ETFs purchased in different quantities at different times; assuming that in the future, starting in a given year, I'll start the decumulation phase by selling part of the units each year consistent with the SWR i have decided, how do I calculate the taxes I will have to pay? In my country there is 26% taxation on capital gains (unfortunately...).
Thank you very much.
Alright, fellow FIRE chasers, here’s the lowdown:
I’m a 35-year-old expat from a third-world country, now living in germany and lurking in the EuropeFIRE sub like a proper financial ninja. My wife and I are fortunate enough to be a double-income household, meaning we can stash away a juicy 4k Euros every month into our investment pot. 💸
Currently, we’ve got a cool 100k lounging around in VWCE, pretending it’s already retired and sipping piña coladas. But we’re still hustling hard, feeding that beast with our monthly savings, hoping it’ll turn into a FIRE-breathing dragon of financial freedom someday.
So, what do you say, EuropeFIRE fam? Any tips, tricks, or brutal reality checks for this humble third-world warrior aiming for early retirement? 🥲