I'm a software engineer directly reporting to an ESTJ head manager. He asked me for a super complicated app, and in 8 months I did everything from ideation to design to software architecture to DevOps to development (frontend + backend). Each one is a career in itself, yet I solo executed exceptionally.

He is impatient, and feels like we're nowhere because we're not at the finish line and that he keeps changing his mind (as opposed to having it all figured out), despite having real features to show for it - ahead of schedule no less. He says it's not a claim against me, but when he's frustrated and I'm the only person responsible, it's hard to feel otherwise. He also is too impatient to let me answer his questions or explain, and he cuts me off in middle of my explanation.

I just always feel attacked and on the hot seat with him, and unable to defend my position. I most often leave meetings shaking or high-adrenaline/stress. He's been a major contributing factor to my depression in the past, because I don't know how to deal with him and it's constantly so stressful and hurtful. Do you have any advice for me?

Have you noticed the reason these relationships happen is because the ESTJ is the benefactor? To their talents, goals, wishes, and dreams?

I recently sat in an induction training with the Quality Assurance and Regulatory Affairs director and realised I really like the sound of what she is doing. It was like a light bulb moment. Will ESTJ like jobs in QARA?

Are you comfortable with dancing? Does critical Se ("I look stupid, I can't do this right") or anything else turn you off from it?

to start off, i’m an ENTP (13F) with an ESTJ mom (45F) and an INTP dad (46M) and i suspect something’s off with my mom. she’s very two faced and the way she acts heavily depends on her mood. for example, when she’s in a good mood (like when she’s on holiday) she’s very clingy and basically touches me everywhere, sometimes makes empty promises like “i’ll buy you this if you [insert something she wants me to do]” then ends up getting annoyed when i remind her that i’ve done what she wanted me to do and i want what she promised me. when she’s in a bad mood (like when my grandma calls her or when something at work pissed her off, “children these days” as she tries to explain why she’s so pissed), she’s passive aggressive, for example when i’m doing my homework, nothing special about that and she goes to take a shower or something, she always says “friendly reminder to do what you need to do and i expect results” before slamming the bathroom door in my face when i tell her that im almost done with it anyway, then throws a tantrum if she sees me doing anything else when she finishes. which annoys me a lot. she also apparently has a god complex, and uses lazy arguments like “i’m your mom, aren’t you gonna respect me?”/ “my house, my rules, if you don’t like them get the fuck out”/ “remember who this is that you’re talking to, mind your attitude” when i want to ask her about something, for instance why she gets so offended when i want to tell her that i want some free time. like, im not even trying to offend you or tell you to change yourself, i just want to know why?

i don’t really want this to be something only professionals or the authorities can treat because i do love her as who she is and she’s very supportive in what i do as long as im not doing anything “wrong” (and will call my school if im being treated unfairly), i genuinely just want to know why she acts like a 5 year old, she confuses me a lot and i really do get a justification for how she acts

And eg if they wanted something but then put it back would you feel bad and tell them it’s ok you’ll get it for them. Would you spoil your child? Asking as I am an ESTJ and I don’t have a child but with my younger cousins (young that I can be their parent) I spoil them a lot and even though at first I say no, at the end I give up and buy it and in general just really spoiling them. Is this an estj thing coz like you can provide for them sort of like Te and inferior Fi at play?

I'm penetrating this sub just to study. I would like to know how the cognitive functions TE, SI, NE, FI appear in you, how do you use them?

Not sure if any other ESTJs relate, but do you occasionally like sort of like imagining scenarios in your head especially before sleeping to sort of like feel those emotions? And it’s something you like to do and have been doing since you were a child?

Also would you say this is specific to ESTJs sort of like I do things quikcily as soon as possible just to get it done esp things I don’t really like and see as a chore to be able to then go and do something else that I like? And like it’s only possible for you to be a workaholic if the work is what you actually like? I think ESTJs relate to this right like I’d do things so quikcily doenst matter if I did it fully correctly I just wanna tick off the task. Also I don’t think we all like having a to do list. This is just a stereotype I think. Also anyone else really quiet and seen as shy throughout their whole life I think coz we don’t have Fe like having E doesn’t mean you’re social. Our E for Te is more about extraverting the info and doing. Wow but like when you found out that you were estj were you abit sad sort of thinking like wow I have this great cognitive functions but why haven’t I achieved as much as other estjs. I think estjs who haven’t achieved their goals will think similar like this right do you relate? Sort of like wow I don’t even have an excuse I’m just lazy. Maybe coz we aren’t lazy coz we still continuously do things but like the things we do needs to be something we like. Like even watching YouTube is doing something or even walking my dog is doing something right.

If you don't know, you could do the test here : https://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/dotest

Though I'd recommend you read your 3 first types' description and decide which one fits you the best.

View Poll

Hey

I always see articles stating Xstj's are rules followers and do what their told(stereotype). So it got me thinking.

How do you Xstj's handle a superior when you disagree with them?

Do you speak up and if so what does it take for you to speak up to said authority?

Or do you just do what your told and if so why?

I think this might be most prevalent for Fi inferiors where they believe they're never good enough or never worthy of the good things in life that happen to them even though they are. They tend to be overqualified or much better than the rest of people in their surroundings but still always feel they need to do more in order to be worthy of whatever it is they're pursuing.

I think once you get over that and let your Fi inferior become aspirational, nothing will stop you from getting what you want and need. It's just a feeling and you can be reframe your thoughts with a bit of self compassion.

I've noticed I can see the essence of Fi very well, like I can clearly tell where Fi begins to function in my mental processes and where it stops, but I, apparently, have a big difficulty seeing where my Te begins and ends -- it's as though it's invisible to me in my own head, weird stuff. I know, INTJs have Te as an auxiliary function, but perhaps my Te has kind of atrophied? Probably due to Ni-Fi loops.

Since you guys are the masters of Te, could you please tell me how it feels to use Te (or what its essence is) and what steps could I take to make it more apparent?

I know they have such calendars for apartments and for hairdressers / salons, etc. though any fellow ESTJ's who know if there's a way to have such an online calendar that could be accessible to friends / family, and would give confirmation email of the day they schedule a time slot for in my life? https://www.vagaro.com/cindylatter/book-now and https://resmate.netlify.app/tours/new?campaign_id=110241 are examples

estj and infp

AUTHORITY: ESTJs and INFPs are seeking influence and power, and to be regarded as weighty and knowledgeable. 

focus(destination)

• INITIATIVE: Subconscious Focused (SF) ESTJs and INFPs put forth tremendous effort in chasing their positions of influence. 
• SLOTH: Unconscious Focused (UF) ESTJs and INFPs lead with Sloth. While in Sloth, they experience power and authority by maintaining the steadiness over their internal and external world. They may believe they have “arrived” or they may perceive the futility in rigorously pursuing certain achievements. For them, power exists IN stillness.

origin(development)

• CREDULITY: Subconscious Developed (SD) ESTJs and INFPs maintain an extreme open-mindedness to others’ perspectives and are more flexible in finding their path than their UD counterparts. But their open-mindedness is best accessed when an idea is siphoned through the intellectual beliefs of the groups they are a part of. To share a “foreign” idea with a credulous ESTJ or INFP can ring danger.

• MANIFESTATION: Unconscious Developed (UD) ESTJs and INFPs have a strong purpose that drives them toward specific goals. Day to day they embody the type of person they know they will eventually become. There is a certain “density” to UD ESTJs and INFPs, as if no one could puncture a hole in their focus. In the pursuit of their goals, they appear imperturbable. 

let me know which two you relate to,one focus and one origin

Hello interesting people, I'm sharing the ESTJ description that I consider to be the most accurate, with the hope you can find it helpful and insightful.

It's an extract from this post divided into six parts, that I recommend everyone to read in full.

"They reduce things into quantities, along few dimensions of analysis, chosen for the advantage of the user, and they are very particular about these dimensions, since they are based on their Si personal traditions. Their discipline and appreciation for rules and authority is learned over time, as they build up their Si, but when they finally do, they are adamant about these rules because this is how they deal with the chaos of the world. While the ENTJ uses Te methods to further their vision (Ni), the ESTJ is defending against a dangerous world (Ne possibilities). They are deeply suspicious of the monarchic tendencies of Ni. Innovations should be dictated by the external situation: one is merely finding different ways to connect the dots (Ne). But Ni operates in spite of the dots, drawing from its imagination, imposing its original picture on the dots. ESTJ finds this dangerous because there is no guarantee that Ni will have anything to do with external reality.

Te focuses on brute facts which they take on their own terms (Fi), treating the universe as a big mutable whole that must be played at its own game (Ne/Si universality). The ESTJ thus deals with things on those thing's given terms, unlike the ENTJ who with their Se/Ni axis decide what they want to see in a particular moment. But unlike Ti types, the ESTJ is not interested in understanding the system of the universe or to be consistent with it, because Te is always open to any changes in facts, thus creating principles to describe all this would be futile. Te works with essentials, averaging things out for the sake of results and accomplishment.

Si takes in the world on the terms of the subject; it does not perceive what the world tells it to perceive, it perceives what the individual decides is the most important to perceive, giving them their detail-oriented quality - not because they notice every detail (this would be Se) but because they focus on details that they decide matter. Se sees everything thus can't discriminate between details, since it sees how everything varies from everything else from moment to moment, but Si is the opposite: it perceives how everything is similar from moment to moment, it slows down and filters the things it deems important, otherwise the individual would drown in the ocean of Ne chaos. This gives ESTJs an inner paradox, since Te is very direct, refusing to yield to any principles, but Si is very indirect, refusing to do anything but adhere to its own wisdom; immediate results vs to do what is supposed to be right from past experiences. This makes ESTJ an energetic creator (Te) of what they personally know works (Si), regardless of what the world tells them otherwise.

Because of the multiple possibilities Ne perceives at any given moment, the only way for ESTJs to act on this is to put their foot down via Si and say "this is the way things are as determined by my past experiences". The ESTJ cuts their losses and needs to decide what aspects of Ne are truly important for their Si, so Te can use it. Their personal rules are nothing but a tool in this process. They don't mess around with new ideas like ENxPs do because they already have a dozen of them waiting to be processed, and there's only that much time left to do so. They are not sifting through data (Se) to work out a general idea (Ni), they are sifting through general ideas (Ne) to work out concrete data (Si). Together with their Te/Fi, ESTJs are a type that wants to bring about something great, but does this by systematically culling anything that's potentially wasteful in relation to that goal. This is Te+Si in a nutshell, found throughout the entire quadra: get rid of the useless fluff to set things in order.

Being a tertiary though, Ne is still tempting the ESTJ all the time, trying to distract them. They thus experience a yearning to try things out all the time, to explore a bit more, but for the ESTJ, doing this feels like going out on a limb, not being able to just take in everything random and unjustifiable. When they learn how to do it though, they take on an ENFP-like energy: excited, creative, funny and even silly.

Their inferior Fi serves as motivator behind Te; like the ENTJ, ESTJs have a soft core inside, but struggle to get in touch with it in a satisfying way. Feelings become an all-or-nothing issue, coming out in a sentimental or ecstatic way: they become overwhelmed by meaning and feelings connected to things bigger than themselves. If they ever seem harsh is because of their Te taking the driver's seat, but when Fi comes out, the contrast between the two makes Fi even more spectacular. One suddenly realizes that the ESTJ is hard because they care so much, not because they don't care at all. Generally very careful with how much they let themselves indulge in their Ne + Fi though, similarly to ISTJs they will be conflicted between enjoying all experiences vs focusing on their Te + Si duties.

A central theme of this type is individual responsibility - one must earn the right to the good things of the world by externally demonstrating one's ability to handle them. One must accept the law and burden of the universe. If you want something, you have to work for it like everybody else. The ISTP emphasizes self-discipline, ESTJ emphasizes discipline in the world. They are trying to reorganize the outside world in accord with their Si traditions, therefore more outwardly aggressive than ISTP and less self-centered than the ENTJ. The ESTJ runs a tight ship in order to keep things afloat. Unlike the ENTJ who's always pushing outwards in a motion of domination, the ESTJ is pushing inwards into prudent obedience. They prefer to keep busy, to always have something to do. Such an attitude is the bedrock for honorably industrious society, but it also means the ESTJ might work themselves bordering on masochism. This sacrifice can feel like a measure of importance or a token of meaningfulness. On the opposite side, they also can discipline others according to their own standards, bordering on sadism. As an anarchic type, they believe the human nature is accessible to perception, they will not grant others exonerating conditions but will project their own conditions unto the individual, being as harsh with them as they are with themselves. They also catalyze maturity, and are respected as pillars of justice unto which the society is built. But they can become tyrannical when treating children as adults, becoming unjust in their justice, and might even enjoy this as punishment, both through their own unremitting work ethic, or by punishing the lack of it in others. What the ESTJ needs is an objectively based empathy, Fe. The empathy of Fi can be misguided, making the type bring in false solutions. Outward displays of emotions are legitimate grounds for mercy and the ESTJ needs to tap into them."

Stereotypically, this may be regarded as a silly question because ESTJs are considered very pragmatic and grounded, but I didn't want to stereotype, so I made a poll for each type sub

View Poll

As it seems to be a common trait for people to come to this sub seeking to know how Te works, I've decided to post this debate among Te users, dom and aux.

I guess some people with a little more experience in mbti would easily call the extroverted and introverted types without the subtitles.

ESTJ, ENTJ, ISTJ and INTJ debate about Te

Hi Executives!
I am on a mission to collect data concerning the MBTI Types and the 5 Love Languages Concept.
I am curious which one(s) are most prominent to you, which one(s) are not and why?
Thank you =)

The five are; Quality time physical touch acts of service words of affirmation and gifts

I have a feeling that s types have problems understanding N types.. especially if they're younger, so I'll say.. you see them daydreaming, not being productive.. doing what they 'have to do'.. it gets frustrating.. you tell them You can't do that, you have to get This done Now. And Right now (speaking of mostly unhealthy s types mind you) imagine it the other way, if someone wouldn't let you do basic things.. the productive things day to day.. not even a shower first, and said you Have to think of 20 + abstract scenarios first.. before you can do anything.. would be a nightmare..You'd probably get very upset.. don't understand why.. makes no sense.. that's how an n type do..

Although when you're a kid, learning structure is important. But if they're an n type.. they're wired differently.. so you can't always force them. The balance between the two is what they need to know.. & when they're older.. knowing the 'daydreaming' or way in the future thoughts.. could go somewhere..

But that's the only way I could really describe the difference..

How do i understand my ESTJ partner better? Sometimes he expresses himself so well and he is so reflective, and sometimes he just does not want to feel or think

He seems so caring and genuine, and he can also be really dismissive and short-fused.

When angry, he can be sarcastic and self sabotaging. When happy, he is a joy to be around.

When he opens up, he can really cry and feel sad. When i share how i feel, he can be easily offended and defensive and retaliating.

He is black or white. There is no in between. How can i help him navigate so that he understands the other colours in the spectrum?

My ESTJ roommate is an alcoholic, but has been relatively sober for the past couple years. He is drinking tonight and when he does he becomes a bad roommate. Not abusive, but he stops doing his share of responsibilities, and becomes annoying as hell.

I would like to find a way to make him feel guilty tonight and tomorrow. I'm being passive aggressive with him as of now, but I'd like to do something, or saying something that will make him feel guilty. He never shows remorse after his drinking.

I've decided to maybe clean the entire house spotless tonight and cook him breakfast in the morning. Will this do anything?

I need someone I can be accountable to. I know it's too much to ask...but all I can do is try. Before I get to therapy, I thought I could just get some help from anyone of you here who has been able to move past depression.. Someone who is action oriented.

I'm looking for a checklist app for iPhone that would:

1 ) Share for collaboration like Notes does

2 ) Allow marking certain tasks as being assigned to certain people while still showing all of them to anyone who's collaborating

3 ) Allow marking different timing priorities (these tasks can be done any time today, these need to be done BEFORE 3pm today, these can only be done tomorrow because X needs to happen first, these can be done whenever we get to them, etc.)

Can anyone recommend? Preferably something very straightforward so I can get right to using it instead of spending a bunch of time learning to navigate around all the parts of it I don't want to use. I love the simplicity of iPhone's basic Notes app, but I'm at a point where I also want the functions I've listed. And I don't know if such a thing exists without getting into some big, elaborate app that also does 200 other things and requires a paid subscription when I'll only be using a very few of its abilities. By stereotype and by some other posts I've seen here regarding productivity software, this seemed like the right place to ask...