Anyone know where I can find this? The only resource I can find is this website: https://www.omniglot.com/conscripts/neochakobsa.htm

But the 6 was written twice (as 7) and the 70 and 80 look identical.

Hi there, just a question as title: Is in any way Hayt's age confirmed? Is he 14, like the years occurred between Idaho death and the events of Messiah? As far as that time I don't recall arrificial aging being a thing

A lot of Sci-Fi centers around concepts like Dyson Spheres and other mega structures. Are there examples of this in Dune or is Dune limited to more "mundane" terraforming and planet-prisoned humanity? I say planet-prisoned because planets are enormous gravity wells with horrific costs to go to and from them. Living on planets makes very little sense for a space fairing people.

As title states, what happened to the Atreides ring post Paul? Was it given to Leto 2? If so what happened to it when he died? Is there a current record of where and who has the ring in the Dune Universe?

So I just finished reading all of the Dune books and it's been a long long journey, about a year or so in total. I found it took so long because at some points in the storyline I got annoyed at different things; the chapter separation paragraphs that was endless quotes from the Old Worm or something from the Bene Gesserit Archives or the overly long descriptions of a characters mood during the time. I think I've personally grown from reading Dune and look at the world slightly different. For example, I find a Reverend Mothers commitment and undying loyalty the Sisterhood quite interesting- it makes me think about what, if anything, I am that loyal to (to the point of self destruction for it's survival). Excited to hear others ideas and thoughts! Also a life tip; the Litany Against Fear actually comes in very handy in day to day problems or anxiety inducing experiences.

Two questions I had even after watching this twice:

Was it explicitly shown how Tula killed the Atreides at the ritual hunt planet? Lack of blood on the bodies implied poison, but was there something I missed that showed how Tula did it? Like her putting the poison that killed the horse in a keg of ale or something?

In this forum, I've seen many references to Tula killing all the Atreides but one... but was it stated in the episode that the entire bloodline except for the one crippled boy was at that ritual hunt and killed? In watching I had the impression it was said that all the Atreides at the hunt were killed, but didn't catch anything that implied all the Atreides were at the hunt.

I was just reading a post about if the Spacing Guild charged the Emperor for transporting his troops to Arrakis, people said that the Harkonnens paid for it, etc.

And it made me wonder: what is the geographical origin of the Spacing Guild members, leaders, agents and navigators? Where do they come from? Are they not part of the feudal families/houses? Do they have their own autonomous planets or do they recruit from places like Caladan, Geidi Prime, etc? Do they have to renounce to their original affiliation when they join the Guild?

Hello fellow Dune fans! Considering the latest statement from Denis that Messiah's focus will be on "war" and be on par with (or even better than) Part 2 - since it's a verbally rich novel that is scarce with action - now I expect them to integrate plotlines from Brian's "Paul of Dune" which is basically Muad'dib commanding the jihad on fronts as several assassination attempts are made.

So I wanted to combine those books to create a ROUGH PLOT for Messiah, while keeping things simple and clean. I've taken screenwriting classes before but I think the problem with Messiah is that it sort of has an Act 1 but falls very very short of Act 2, and then jumps to Act 3 which has a finale that is too brief.

So I think we may expand Alia and Jessica's roles, complicate the Tleilaxu plot, and by making Chani a rebel opposing Paul's tyranny with a Fremen cell her eventual reunion with Paul may be engaging. Also, we may allocate a fair amount of the film - let's say the first half - for the war against the Great Houses (maybe Stilgar and his army chasing them through the space) and to the conspiracies in the palace.

I have these ideas:

🔴 It opens with Paul's coronation, Alia narrates. The opening action is 12 years into Jihad and Paul leads his army on Kaitain against the loyalists of Corrino rule. He will destroy Shaddam's palace to send a message to dissident houses, leading them to gather for a claim of a constitution to limit Paul's authority - which he'd reject and face an assassination in the meeting. He'd give an ultimatom there and afterwards, The Guild visits his palace to offer him a toy to cheer him up: Hayt.

🔴 Jessica may come back from Caladan to guide & protect her children against conspiracies popping up. But the execution of her maternal acts will be problematic for her BG nurturing: Grooming Alia to take control of The Sisterhood on Wallach IX through a coup by using the Fremen which she has influence over, make her their head; thus keeping her under watch and taking her royal position to maintain security, pushing her aside due to the mental issues - leading to Alia's eventual breakdown which will be explored in CoD. This will take her beyond an observer looking through the peephole. Paul's distrust for Jessica continues, so Alia'd be key for her in the royal circle. I'm looking for ideas to improve this plotline, cause Idk what to do honestly. Alia holds a control over Fremen so if Jessica'd use her as instrument it'd be through military and religious power.

🔴 Chani now opposes Paul's tyranny, attacks the spice fields w/ a Fremen resistance cell. This may compensate the lack of action somewhat while making her eventual reunion with Paul challenging and engaging. Hayt's philosophy might strike Paul's heart and he sets off the desert in a search for Chani whom he sees cryptic visions about lately. He shouldn't be able to convince her easily - even though the jihad is beyond his control - because you can't just compensate a death toll of 16 billion. Chani should be forced to leave the cell and return. Her cell might discover her relationship w/ the Emperor, attempt to use her as a bargaining chip, endangering her life. So she may escape.

🔴 In Act 2, we're gonna see a knife duel between Hayt and Alia. Afterwards, Paul might urge them to take a look at a corpse near Duke Leto's Shrine, which will rekindle Hayt's memories. This could or couldn't be Lichna's corpse, it could be anyone that Paul or Alia has contacted before in a time when the person should had already been dead, introducing a mystery. In the book Tleilaxu plot is way too short: Scytale imitates a trusted figure (Lichna) to sneak in the palace to give Paul a tool (Dwarf) to help him against Fremen conspirators wanting to kill him (which Tleilaxu don't want to: they want to control Paul, keep him alive until the end); but when Paul gets the Dwarf, the Fremen set off the Stoneburner. In the finale, Tleilaxu bargains him. So we might say that the Tleilaxu protect Paul a bit until the finale. Their plot might be expanded.

🔴 In the middle of the film, Paul might finally eliminate all the remaining rebel great houses that we'd been watching his battles against in the first half of the story - so that he'd somewhat eliminate few threats against his rule but cultivate his myth more than ever: he now rules all the parcels of the universe. In "Paul of Dune", Paul foresees that the rebel Houses attack Caladan, endangering Jessica's life. So he completely obliterates the main rebel planet. This could sit here well, however Paul should really be pushed to delete all the life there and where'd Chani stand in this? Also she may make love with him and get pregnant.

🔴 When the news come out that she's pregnant, Chani may face an assassination in Shaddam's funeral by a dozen of her own copies (face-dancers plot), and Duncan may save her. Thus, him returning his memories and loyalty would be foreshadowed. Upon this, Paul may summon Reverend Mother to offer his offsprings to protect Chani, and he'll face Irulan if she took part in the assassination. Since the plotline of the rebellion in the great houses now simmered down, story could focus on Tleilaxu conspiracy and the clash of Alia & Jessica.

🔴 I imagine there'd be a hidden structure within the Fremen that want to kill Paul to make him a martyr so the jihad will gain momentum again. This hidden structure might appear just before the Stoneburner is set off: Imagine that some soldiers in the army assault him, a tumult rises and they try to reach Paul to kill him, and the weapon goes off. Upon this conspiracy, Alia will interrogate the Fremen conspirators (just like the book), and order his loyal Fremen to attack certain sietches (just like the SyFy Children of Dune adaptation), taking harsh measures which will foreshadow her dangerous rule in the Children of Dune.

🔴 ON BATTLES: If this is a blockbuster war film, the Act 2 (at least until the middle of it) is supposed to have 2 or 3 action scenes that directly challenges or threatens Paul. I'm struggling with that what they could be? They might be some battles on different planets, it's an interstellar war. Duke Leto says "On Caladan it's air and sea power" so there might be fleets bombarding, bringing classical naval warfare strategies to sci-fi. Yet, since Paul'd fight in the field, battles should be grounded to melee knife fights. Does Brian showcase such in his books?

🔴 FINAL BATTLE: This wouldn't be on par with Dune Part 2 w/o a final battle. So I think oif there's gonna be one, it might be against a union of the Great Houses landing on Arrakis as a retaliation for the nuclear obliteration of the rebel planet. Now Paul is blind and frustrated by Chani's childbirth. This would be the moment, but there must be a catalyst to bring them on Arrakis at that exact moment.

So what do you think? I try to find a plot for Alia & Jessica, and there are certain parts that needs to be enhanced. How could Villeneuve surpass his latest film?

The spacing guild charges obscene amounts to send military troops. I think it was something like 80 years of profits from mining spice that the spacing guild charged House Harkonnen to send their army to Dune when they attacked House Atreides. Did they charge something similar to House Corrino? And how difficult would it be to conceal from the other great houses that much money changing hands?

Edit: Just want to say thanks to everyone commenting. Appreciate the insights.

I just rewatched Dune II after finishing the third episode of the show. I have not read any of the books, but I love the show and movies. There is a short segment in the second movie right after Paul wakes up from having drank the blue water of life that I don't really know what to make of. He tells his mother that he now knows that they are actually Harkoonens, and that from now on they will act like it. I can't remember the exact quote. Does he mean that literally? Like they should now be evil? Or was he just talking about a strategy? This might be a silly question but I just don't understand why he does what he does at the end otherwise. He is going to fight literally everyone else in the Dune world to do what? The rest of the houses/planets had nothing to do with what happened to him. What he is doing is basically what his psychotic cousin was planning to do. Am I missing something?

With Dune Prophecy currently airing, I thought I'd quickly go back to Dune: Imperial Court, a story which takes place after Navigators Of Dune and one which not many people will know exists.

As far as I know (and I'm probably wrong), Dune: Imperial Court is only in the Sands Of Dune short story collection. It's not long, but does feature Javicco Corrino. I thought I'd recount it here for those interested, and decided to re-read it to see if it impacts on Dune Prophecy in any way (hint - it doesn't, as far as I know).

With Emperor Roderick Corrino dead, the young Javicco takes the throne - and he needs a new court chamberlain. Both the earnest Willem Atreides and the influential Danvis Harkonnen vie for the position, with Danvis scheming with his cousin Gerhard to poison the other competitors and pin the blame (rather obviously) on Willem.

Meanwhile, Willem is visited by what remains of the Atreides line from Kepler, who want him to leave with them. I did initially think this included a young Kieran, but was mistaken.

The Harkonnen plot takes a turn when Danvis intentionally poisons himself, with Gerhard promising a full recovery thanks to an antidote. Willem is implicated and the Atreides discredited. Faking grief, Gerhard shoots Willem, who dies - but not before saying the feud must end. The Kepler Atreides vow that the feud continues.

Meanwhile, Danvis is indeed spared death, but is now confined to a wheelchair and incapable of any movement or speech. In his stead, Gerhard is now a powerful and influential member of the Landsraad, replacing him. Danvis vows to himself that he will take his revenge on Gerhard, knowing this was his plan all along.

So I think the last episode of Dune - Prophecy was the best one so far, but one thing is just sticking with me about the big reveal at the end. I’ve read Dune - God Emperor and I can’t remember they’re ever mentioning that the Bene Gesserit used thinking machines for their genetic breeding program. I like the idea and it kind of feels obvious in retrospect, but it feels like something that would have come up (especially in God Emperor of Dune).

The longer I sit with it the more I think about how this would have huge implications for the entire Dune universe. I mean the Kwisatz Haderach was basically the creation of a thinking machine! Who knows what else it was actually doing for them? Was a thinking machine pulling the strings of the BG the whole time? I find it so weird this wouldn’t be a major plot point in Leto’s philosophical narrative. It’s been a while since I’ve read these books so maybe it was mentioned and I’m forgetting, or it’s mentioned in books after. Can someone make this straight with me lol.

Does anyone know if there are any Dune inspired songs, by Hans Zimmer or others, that sound like Hans Zimmer - Sandstorm from Dune (2021)?Specifically at the part in the middle where it slows down and there's a certain repeating tune/motif that sounds very dreamy

I've listened to his other 2 albums for Dune (2021), The Dune Sketchbook and The Art & Soul of Dune and I can't recall anything similar. I've also searched for extended versions of that song and other Dune inspired ambience music but can't recall anything that utilizes that theme. A lot of the songs from the Dune OSTs use motifs more than once but this one seems to be only in Sandstorm?

I know this is a niche question but if anyone has recommendations I'd appreciate it lol

The water in the giant cisterns under each seitch are known to the microliter but it seems water there is only "banked" when someone dies and is added to it.

So what happens to water that's harvested by dew collectors? Water fat foreigners who wander too far into the desert?

Once inside a seitch stillsuits are no longer required and water is shared. So I guess you get all your water back in the form of food and showers and commonly available water that's harvested into seitch-wide catch pockets?

It seems like there are two economies: the formal banking of fremen water into the seitch cistern counted by water rings, and an informal economy based on everyday living from dew collectors and shared by food and taking off your suit.

While I’m waiting for the new dune awakening game next year

I’m wondering if there any dune games that are out I could play while waiting for the new dune game

Any suggestions would be great

I’m sure this has been answered before, but whenever they mention things like «Jamis’s coffee service» after the duel in the first book i get so confused, since coffee makes you extremely dehydrated..

Hi everyone. Have been re reading the book series and this came to mind.

Do you think modern audiences will stay engaged with the Dune series after Dune Messiah**?**

With Denis Villeneuve bluntly saying that Dune Messiah will be his last Dune movie, how do you think casual fans will react to the direction the series takes if it continues beyond his involvement?

As we all know, after Dune Messiah, the story becomes less focused on Paul Atreides and shifts toward philosophical themes, long-term societal evolution, and more abstract ideas. Paul’s death, the rise of Leto II, and the introduction of concepts like sandworm-human hybrids mark a dramatic departure from the action-driven narrative of the first two books.

While these elements resonate deeply with us hardcore fans of Frank Herbert’s novels, do you think they might turn away everyday moviegoers who are less interested in the series’ philosophical depth? Paul has been the central figure of the story so far—would his departure leave a void too big?

Additionally, would the surreal aspects of Leto II’s transformation and the political and ecological themes of the later books feel too abstract or off-putting to audiences expecting the same tone as Dune and Dune Messiah?

Do you guys think if a new creative team is formed, they will be able to strike a balance between honoring the source material’s complexity and keeping the story accessible? Or do you think Dune should conclude with Messiah to avoid alienating casual fans of the franchise?

Hi everyone! I'm new here, so apologies in advance if this has been discussed before.

After finishing Heretics of Dune, I keep wondering: what exactly did Paul see in his vision that made him reject that future?

At the time, the ecological transformation of Arrakis wasn't fully complete—there were still plenty of sandworms. If he was worried about them vanishing, couldn't he have reverted Arrakis to its original state before his rule?

I know Leto II mentions that he accepted the Golden Path after Paul refused to take it, but by the time Leto was a child, the environment was already vastly different from when Paul had his vision.

What am I missing here?

Thanks in advance!

Am I the only one not satisfied with the explanation that Valya's Voice was a result of human evolution? Or was it something else? If so, I believe she isn't the first Voice user if a certain individual can just achieve it due to dire situations just like her brother dying.

Also, although Valya Harkonnen may be the first Voice user, I'm quite wondering how it wasn't passed down to next generations of Harkonnens (Dune 1&2) Seems like it was only kept within the Sisterhood.

Voice didn't work on Desmon Hart because he may not be a human. He survived the worm attack and may have been revived as a half-human half-AI robot killing machine

Hi everyone !

I'm quite puzzled by the level of technology displayed in Dune Prophecy. Especially with episode 3 and its setting during the flashbacks where it feels like House Harkonnen and House Atreides are just living in Europe during the Middle Age. At times, I really thought I was watching Vikings and not Dune. Apart from the light ources that still looked like electric lamps everything else looked like it was set 1000 years before us and not 10000 year after us.

For what's it worth, I haven't read anything wrote by Herbert son, so I don't know if this is adressed in his books.

So how come everything seems so... Outdated ?

On the subject of genetic memory, what exactly are the limitations?

Specifically if I consult Great Grandma Mathilda on her memory of certain events, do i have access to her complete lifetime of experiences, or only up to the moment of the time she gave birth to her daughter?

if the memory is genetic, theoretically everything that Grandma experienced AFTER giving birth would not have been passed on to her decendants correct?

Not sure if im describing this correctly so be kind if im missing something obvious.

So there seems to be be quite a divide between what I've read of the books and what I hear in the commentary. In the books Paul and Leto are portrayed as pragmatic and the Golden Path seems to be characterized as a harsh but necessary measure that the characters have to do to save mankind. But in all the commentary on forums and even the author himself in some of his quotes seem to characterize it as this completely evil thing we should strive to avoid at all costs.

So my question is. If the Golden Path is the 'wrong way'. What is the right way? Paul and Leto simply letting things be and allowing mankind to stagnate? The bene gessirit succeeding on breeding the Kwisatz Haderach on their own terms? Letting the Emperor and Harkonnens win? A change in the distant past that prevents the feudal setting of dune from ever existing? Something else?

I've got an issue with the geography of Arrakis as shown in the map at the beginning of Dune. Most of the action takes place within the 60 degree line of latitude, or around the north pole of Arrakis. This would result in a sun that appears low in the sky (no more than 30 degrees above the horizon, or 1/3 of the way to straight overhead). If we assume that there's no axial tilt of Arrakis (i.e. it doesn't have seasons), then at the pole the sun would ride along the horizon as the day passes. If there is any tilt, as there is on Earth, then there would be periods of time when the polar regions of Arrakis are completely dark for months on end. None of that seems like the vision I think most people have when reading Dune, and likewise the movies show the sun high in the sky. As a hot, desert planet, its hard to think of it being anything other than sun-scorched.

Is anyone else having this problem? They all look the same. Need some kind of AI marker. A girl changes her hair/clothing and I don't recognizer her. Too many characters to keep track of. The Sisters wear the same clothes and behave the same way, it's hard to separate them - like ants in a colony.

Maybe they should have a narrator to explain things and keep viewers on track.

I had it much worse with GoT - with all the kingdoms, not even a map. I need maps and charts to understand stuff.

I’ve been thinking about the similarities between the historical Order of Assassins (the Hashshashin, or Nizari Ismaili Muslims) and DUNE, and I’d love to hear what others think. Both involve secretive, highly trained groups with significant influence over political power. The Hashshashin were known for their stealth and targeted assassinations, but they also had a strict code: they avoided harming civilians. This reminds me of the concept of "kanly" in Dune—a formalized system of vendetta that enforces rules of engagement and aims to limit civilian casualties.

Drugs are another interesting connection. The Assassins are often mythically linked to hashish, with legends suggesting it was used to inspire mystical visions, build unwavering loyalty, or prepare assassins for their missions, though whether they actually used it is debated. In Dune, spice melange plays an even bigger role. It’s not only vital for heightened awareness but also for life extension, prescience, and focus. The idea of a substance that grants mental clarity, insight, and control over one’s environment feels like a striking parallel.

The terminology for their warriors is another intriguing similarity. The Assassins were often called Fedayeen (those willing to sacrifice themselves), which closely parallels the Fedaykin, Paul’s elite and fiercely loyal warriors in Dune. Both worlds also use assassination and violence as tools of power, but with an emphasis on precision and intent rather than indiscriminate destruction.

What do you think? Are these connections deliberate? I couldn’t find anything confirming that Herbert was inspired by the actual Assassins, but the similarities are hard to ignore.

in the beginning of Children of Dune, Stilgar is remarking how the deification of Paul resulted in merging of religion and law. Then he mentions God, the merciful, the compassionate.

is he talking about Paul Muad’Dib? or shai-hulud? or who? also I’m at the very beginning of children so no spoilers

So, the end of the book implies Leto's golden path was achieved through Siona. Is this specifically because Leto was not presciently aware of her? During CoD, Leto chooses to embrace the sandtrout because he does not see the results/timeline of this action, and that makes it his golden path (I think). Is this same idea of the Golden Path being the path unseen the reason Siona completed the Golden Path, making humans unpredictable and prescience not as useful? No spoilers for Heretics/Chapterhouse whatever.