I went from dfi 27 to dfi 11

DFI 27 collected 4/2 after 50 hour hold

DFI 11 collected 4/19 after 7 days of 1 or 2 ejaculations per day while my wife was ovulating, then 12 hour hold before test

Will still proceed with varicocele surgery because of pain

What does everyone think?

Keep the pipes moving, perhaps.

Any thoughts out there?

I’ve now read the BabyDance research paper, which says it works. But traditionally I thought water soluable lubricants were bad for sperm?

Thank you all.

Here's our DNA Frag result and SA.

Is it the total frag of motile sperm people refer to when they give their percentage or the total frag including dead/immotile sperm? Please see our DNA Frag

Our SA

We use ICSI. My clinic doesn't use zymot but I'm able to source one for me to use. Worried about being a guinea pig for my clinic but the other embryologist says it's straight forward.

What do you think?

We have this on our DnA Frag test result, "The test has been performed by two different methods. The “ApoAlert DNA fragmentation Assay Kit” by Clontech and the “Halosperm” kit by Halotech. The deviation between these two assays was about S.D.: 4.8". ApoAlert and Halotech."

Are these any good? Our dna frag was measured at 32% for motile sperm and 58% for total sperm. Four failed ivfs and about to do another next week.
I'm trying to source zymot from another clinic as mine doesn't have or use them. Will it be risky for my one zymot to be the guinea pig for the embryologist? Is it complicated?

Hi, does anyone know if sperm banks test for dna fragmentation? Thanks!

Does the 2-3 month rule hold true for DNA fragmentation?

In other words, is my fragmentation score now based on sperm that was created 2-3 months ago? And therefore, is the score based on my lifestyle and health 2-3 months ago?

If this is the case, why does the 3 hour approach help so much?

​

Hey there,

I've just discovered this group and need a space to share my story and ask for any advice.

I am 33 almost 34 years old, and have gone through 5 miscarriages (all MMC at 8 weeks), and 1 chemical pregnancy. I do have 1 living child who was born at 31 weeks. That was my first pregnancy. All subsequent have been miscarriages. I was 29 years old and my husband was 30 years old when we had that live birth. All have been unassisted conceptions.

My husband has bilateral varicocele (stage 2). His SA tests (2 total) have been normal, great even, per our RE. I have been wanting DNA fragmentation testing since after our 3rd loss, but here we are after 6 losses and still nothing. So now we are taking it into our own hands and doing a test through SCSA.

But, it has been absolute hell these past 4 years. I have had what I believe to be every test imaginable, including working with a very expensive reproductive immunologist. My testing with the RI did show clotting factors, high antibodies and immune response so for this last pregnancy I was on prednisone, lovenox, and IVIG as well as prophylactic progesterone although I have not tested low for progesterone ever. I also had laprascopy for stage 2 endo last October which we discovered through Receptiva. But, despite this intense protocol, I still had a MMC with the baby stopping growth at 8 weeks 5 days when I should have been 9 weeks 3 days. The RI said my blood tests looked good and there was no indication that there would be a loss.

We have done genetic testing three times on our losses. The others we weren't able to. All 3 have come back chromosomally normal.

My RI today said there's really nothing else to do. IVF is certainly not off the table but we didn't want to go through it without knowing why we keep losing babies. Why, just why is this happening?

But now this brings me back to my husband's varicocele. From what I've read on this sub, genetic testing can come back normal but there is still a genetic abnormally with the baby that just wasn't tested. It sounds like people have been through recurrent pregnancy loss and it could be due to the DNA fragmentation. We are getting that tested and I am almost hoping for a high percentage so maybe, just maybe, we will have even more of an answer. The not knowing is unbearable.

Thanks for reading/ listening, and if anyone has a similar story or any other suggestions please feel free to share. Thank you <3

My fiance did a dna frag test done at a fertility clinic in Toronto. It came back at 71% which is extremely high. We had it tested again with another clinic 2 weeks later (we were getting second opinion at multiple places) and it came back at 26%. Is this even possible? Which one do we even believe?

It’s about $200 for us each time we do the test.

Hi all, I'm trying to conceive 2nd baby. I have Grade II left varicocele. My SA are always strong with between 8-14 morphology, high count, and 66% prog motile.

I got the results of my DNA fragmentation test:
DFI 27 (20-30 is borderline)
OSA 1.8 (sub-3 is normal)
HDS 7 (sub 15 is normal)

Thoughts on whether I should proceed with surgery to correct?

My wife and I have had 2 early first trimester miscarriages in the past 1.5 years, most recent Nov 2023. Conceiving each time was not much of an issue, but after the second loss I started to get workups on my fertility as part of the treatment plan. I have a moderate varicocele, so I wanted to rule out any MFI/risk factors. I performed my first SA in December of 2023 (I had been taking some FertilAid prior to the 2nd pregnancy and then switched to just taking CoQ10, L-Carnitine, and Fish Oil for the 3 months prior to the analysis). Results after 3.5 day abstinence:

Total Sperm – 135 million

Concentration – 33.75 million

Motility – 93%

Progressive Motility – 86%

Total Motile - 125.55 million

Total Progressive – 116.10 million

Round cells - <1 mil/ml

Morphology – 1% (Abnormal)

The doctors were dismissive that the losses were related to sperm quality, but I still decided to take a lot of precautions in the subsequent months as I know we wanted to start trying again in 2024 – no hot showers (recently have been ending the showers with around 3 minutes of cold water), daily icing, commando/loose underwear, good diet/exercise/sleep, and supplements (CoQ10, L-Carnitine, Fish Oil, Zinc, B-Complex, Vit C/D/E, Magnesium, Selenium). I also took a DNA Frag test about a month after starting these protocols and that came back at 13% (pretty okay).

My Urologist had me do another SA on 4/1/24. Results after 40 hours abstinence:

Total Sperm – 267.75 million

Concentration – 89.25 million

Motility – 39% (Abnormal)

Progressive Motility – 35%

Total Motile – 104.42 million

Total Progressive – 93.7 million

Round cells – 1.2 mil/ml (Abnormal)

Morphology – 2% (Abnormal)

The drop in motility and round cells seem odd to me. But 4 days prior to the SA, I picked up some type of respiratory/stomach virus when traveling that knocked me off my feet for a week (I gave the sample just as symptoms started to ramp up). Is it possible that the virus just zapped the motility and caused increased round cells? I read that round cells can be present due to flu like viruses, but can it happen that quickly? Now I am concerned about DNA Fragmentation impact. I did another test a few days ago and awaiting the results. Is it likely that if the virus impacted motility/round cells, that DNA Frag is also going to see similar impact?

sorry for mistakes (not a native speaker).

me (37F) and my husband (39M) TTC for 2 years now. we've had 2 natural pregnancy loss (first at 6w, second at 5w), and had 2 ivf loss (ET - loss at 5w, FET - loss at 6w)

our test results are (before ivf): I have hashimoto with always normal TSH, my husband's sperm results came back catastrophic - all values were below normal (quantity, morphology, motility etc) and dna fragmentation were 66%.

andrologist told my husband that he has minor varicocele, but nothing to worry. asked my husband to come back for another test 3 months later. 3 monts later all values became worse, dna fragmentation were not checked. andrologist told my husband to try to get book an ivf consultation date, then come back again for a test 3 months later.

I've had enough not getting any advice and not having any progress, so I checked supplements - q10, vitamin e/c/d, zinc, selenium, inositol etc. 3 months later his 3rd test results came back normal (quantity, morphology, motility etc), but dna fragmentation is still 40%. we've tried ivf - ICSI after this result, with no success yet (see above).

my husband never smoked, never drank alcohol, eats healthy, runs 40km/week and go to gym 4 times/week for years.

doctor adviced donor sperm ("if you think so" ?!?!), but to be honest we feel that they did not put much effort into this situation. I mean varicocele was checked once a year ago and dismissed as a cause, then I forced some supplements down my husband's throat upon my own research, but that's it. shouldn't we at least try to get improve these results or try to find the reason behind, or try zymot or anything, before jump to donor sperm?

any advice? what to check, what to try, what to ask from the new doctor he will see next week?

UPDATE - #1 : we got 15 eggs… Not as many as I was hoping but oh well.

UPDATE -#2 : Of 15 eggs retrieved, 12 were mature, and 10 fertilized normally.

How many pgt tested normal embryos did you all get and with what % dna fragmentation? We have our first egg retrieval in a few days… I’ll update then. But just curious what everyone outcome has been.

We are 27F and 27M - husbands SA is really good on all parameters just have the 30% dna fragmentation (as of January and I have no clue what it’s at now) - no known factors on my end.

Hi been searching all over and cannot seem to find any data on this. I hear reports of it lowering it to 1% but is there any studies behind this? I’m at 22% with a long history of losses. Any info would be appreciated!

My wife and I are TTC starting in a few weeks, and I just came down with some sort of virus a couple days ago. I think at most, I had a short term fever that lasted around a day and never got much above 100 degrees (was taking Tylenol to manage). But I am worried about impact on sperm.

I was already looking into things due to my wife going through recurrent pregnancy loss. I did a sperm analysis last week (waiting on results) and I'm doing a DNA Frag test next week. I tested both a few months ago and both looked pretty okay, but just rechecking to get a clearer picture before we start trying again. I know the SA won't show an impact since I did it before the fever hit, and DNA Frag test will probably be too soon after the fever to see negative results...but worried about future impacts.

Do you really need a higher fever for longer periods to see negative impacts? Or could temporary spikes also cause issues? Was trying to look it up, but doesn't seem like there are many studies.

Posting this for a friend - I encouraged them to get a DNA fragmentation test as their experience sounded similar to my partners, and his result came back at 58%.

He is older 50+ and his doctor put him on some kind of FertilAid/ProFertil medication for sperm quality to see if that helps for now.

Has anyone had success naturally conceiving or with IUI using these meds/improving lifestyle factors and short abstinence times, or is IVF the only option?

Just did a round of IVF with zymot & icsi and absolutely nothing fertilized. We had 6 eggs 4 mature and nothing. I just am getting out of the hospital as I developed internal bleeding after my egg retrieval. I am truly devastated. Looking for any insights. We both have been on lots of supplements. Thanks

Hi,

My husband and I are experiencing secondary infertility (miscarriage) having had a very uncomplicated 1st pregnancy two years ago. Due to our age when we first started trying (now 36 (me) & 40(him)) we did some general fertility tests and at the time my husbands sperm came back as low morphology 1%, although everything else was fine (count 685m motile, 70% progressive). Issue seems to mostly be head defects with 99% having this issue. We didn’t think anything of this result as ultimately we feel pregnant within two cycles and it was a healthy and uneventful pregnancy. Second time round hasn’t been the same story, we fall quickly but have missed miscarriage with embryo stopping developing at 6 weeks. I am now so worried it’s to do with morphology and ultimately DNA fragmentation. Husband is having a test tomorrow, but from everything I’ve read results take 3-4 weeks. Does this likely seem our issue even though we conceived quickly? My husband does have varicose veins in his legs so I wonder if he has a variocele.

Thanks in advance!

I’m just curious if anyone knows about pregnancy with DNA fragmentation, as we are doing IVF (we are not pregnant I’m just curious about the future if we did).

when can you stop worrying about miscarrying ? Is this somthing that can happen through the entire pregnancy due to the dna fragmentation? Or after a certain amount of weeks are you in the clear? Like how much does it actually effect the entire pregnancy? Anyone have any thoughts?

Just some background - My wife has gone through RPL over the past 1.5 years (2 early first trimester losses). Her RPL panel came back completely normal and products of conception confirmed no chromosomal issue, so I have suspected there may be MFI factor. My SA was somewhat okay (normal count, good motility, poor morphology), but I decided to do a DNA Frag test since I have a moderate varicocele. I was convinced this was the cause once I did more research. However, the test came back relatively okay at 13%. I took the test late January 24 around 1-2 months after implementing a bunch of protocols:

Supplements - multivitamin, CoQ10, L-Carnitine, Zinc, Vit C/D/E, Magnesium, Fish Oil; Better quality sleep; No underwear when it is appropriate (I work from home so this is pretty easy), lukewarm showers, ice 30 min per day religiously; Strict diet/limited to no alcohol/intense exercise

So my best working theory for the RPL is that my DNA Frag was higher around the time of the losses (2nd loss was mid-Nov 23). My Urologist/REI are not supportive of a varicocele repair with my current results. My plan is to continue with these protocols for another month and retest the DNA Frag to check for improvements, and then my wife and I plan to try again mid-April.

My question is related to heat exposure and sperm results/DNA Frag. I have been pretty on top of avoiding any overheating. But it's probably the thing for me that is toughest to avoid and the thing that stresses me out most. I find the rest of the protocols completely tolerable (and somewhat fun), since I know they are helping my overall health as well. But recently, my dog has picked up the habit of laying directly on my crotch in the middle of the night when we're sleeping, and their body heat leads me to get overheated. I realize pretty quickly after (about an hour at most) and push them off, but things like that are definitely causing me stress related to damaging the sperm.

Is that a silly thought? Is it really just direct high levels of heat (like long exposure to laptops, sauna, etc) that can impair sperm?

​

Hello there! Does anyone know how much of a difference TESE makes in reducing fragmentation? I have 22% and have already done zymot and icsi, 12 hour hold etc and we’ve had miscarriages with Euploid embryos. All other SA numbers are normal

I would be willing to do the procedure if it would drastically reduce the DNA frag

My other issue would be that my clinic does not do fresh TESE transfer so it would have to be frozen. I’ve read fresh is preferable but I am wondering if frozen TESE would be better than what I have been doing.

FYI We had 5 euploid transfers. 3 miscarriages and 2 didn’t implant with 3 rounds of IVF

She has also had 4 miscarriges naturally

I do have a 3 year old son who was natural conception miracle using a short abstinence .

Thanks so much

My wife (31F) and I (32M) have had 2 early first trimester miscarriages in the past 1.5 years (both around 7-7.5 weeks). The first was a natural MC before the 1st scan, but the second we had a normal scan w/ heartbeat at 6.5 weeks and a MMC at 9 week scan in Nov 23 (measured 7.5 weeks). We were able to test products of conception for 2nd pregnancy and it showed no genetic issues. Right after the second loss, I started to question potential MFI due to my moderate unilateral varicocele. I knew varicoceles could cause conception issues but did not know the miscarriage risks from DNA Fragmentation.

My initial SA was done beginning Dec 23 to mixed results – normal-ish total/concentration (135 million total, 33.75 mil/ml concentration) and good motility (88% progressive motility), but only 1% morphology. My urologist/network would not test or cover for DNA Fragmentation, but I still wanted to check so I did an at home test late (SCSA) Jan 24. The test came back “normal” at 13% DFI and 8% HDS (about 52 hour abstinence). I’ve heard that the real normal level is closer to 8%, but my urologist/REI dismissed this and said there was no way this was related to the losses. They also said based on all results, a varicocele repair would not be necessary since it would probably only result in minor changes.

My question is related to the timing of when I did the test and whether I could have had higher DFI closer to conception in Sep 23. Since March 23, I was only taking Fertilaid through the month of conception. I changed to only taking CoQ10 and L-Carnitine beginning of October as the Fertilaid never sat right with my stomach, but then stopped the supplements once we got positive result in mid-Oct. I also added Fish Oil mid-Sep and continued use throughout the pregnancy. I restarted CoQ10/Carnitine right after the 2nd loss late Nov 23 and added regular multivitamin, zinc, and magnesium at this time. Then in early-mid Jan 24, I added vitamin C/D/E. Shortly after the losses, I also started some other protocols:

- Consistent 7-7.5 sleep

- No hot showers, commando 99% of the time, 30 min daily icing

- Increase frequency of ejaculation (my method during pregnancy was to “save up” for around 4 days prior to fertile window and minimize ejaculation outside this time) - Strict diet with lots of organic fruits/veggies/fish/good carbs, max 1 cup coffee per day, max 1 drink per month. My diet/drinking has always been pretty solid, but I really refined it during this time.

Is it possible that only being on Fertilaid for the time before conception would have resulted in a higher DNA Frag level? And then based on the changes made after 2nd loss, could I have already started to see some improvements in 2 months leading up to the DNA Frag test? I know it usually takes sperm 3 months to form, but I’ve also read some changes can be seen earlier. We are really at a loss for the causes of the miscarriages. All other testing has come back completely normal, the only other thing we are thinking of looking into is possible hidden immunological issues for my wife. So, I was really hoping we can pin some connection to the DNA Frag.

Hi all, looking for advice. Has anyone had sucessful outcomes with a DNA fragmentation of 30%? My (42F) partner (43M) has low sperm count/ motility/ morphology…. Approx 10-14Million/ml. We have been doing egg retrievals to bank embryos and our RE talked me into trying an FET. Our 1st FET of a Euploid Embryo unfortunately ended in Miscarriage which was pretty traumatic. My partner’s DNA fragmentation came back at 30%. This is after life style modifications & CoQ10 supplementation. He has had an Ultrasound and doesn’t have a significant Varicocele. We are looking into Zymot but are not interested in doing a TESE. My specific question is; generally 3x Euploid embryos are advised per live birth…. But I am unsure how abnormal DNA fragmentation affects this. As PGT cannot test for DNA fragmentation is it necessary to bank more than 3 Euploids per live birth?! Has anyone had successful FET’s with 30% DNA fragmentation? If so how many Euploids did you need?

I was wondering about whether poor sperm morphology will leading to miscarriages ealier today ,and people told me I should check DNA fragmentation issues. My embryo passed PGT-A test. Does pgt-a test for embryo screen the DNA fragmentation? Anyone can help me out and answer my question? Thank you!

I just wanted to share that we received our results from a repeat SCSA DNA fragmentation test. Our first results came back high at 25%. Our repeat result shows a decent improvement at 18%. The changes we made include the following:

• 600mg Ubuiquinol, 268 mg Vitamin E, 1000 mg Vitamin C, FertilAid, 5000IU Vitamin D (3x/wk)
• Healthy(er) eating and regular(ish) exercise
• Icing the nuts every night and avoiding heat in that area
• Cutting alcohol consumption by about 90%
• Short abstinence, specifically clearing the pipes every day/every other day in the two weeks leading up to the test. The test sample was provided on a ~20 hour hold. I know even shorter can be better, but 20 hours is the sweet spot for us as his count will take a nosedive if we make it any shorter than that.

My partner has really enjoyed how much control I currently wield over his masturbation schedule /s. But I am pleased that our efforts did make some progress.

We have had two miscarriages from unassisted pregnancies and are gearing up for our first IVF retrieval featuring ICSI, Zymot, Omnitrope, the works. This result is encouraging and gives me some hope. Much appreciation for all of the information provided in this sub.

Hi,

I’m 39F, DOR (amh .084-1.26) with 40M, high dna frag (29-34%).

Are euploids impacted by high DNA fragmentation? Do I need to worry about the integrity of the euploid embryos due to high DNA Fragmentation? Are the transfers more likely to fail?

We have >!2 euploids after 2 ERs!< after horrible fertilization rates (ER1: 1/5; ER2: 2/10). We are paying OOP so we can’t do ER after ER.

Please share some successes, if any .

EDIT: AMH 0.84-1.26

Hi! I have been lurking this sub for a while now, because my bf and I were told by a lot of doctors that we can’t conceive naturally because he has a dna fragmentation of 22%. One test showed less, 18% or so. We accepted this fact as it is, and our doctor told us we should try ivf. We were like, ok, sure, if that’s what it takes.. I had an appointment on January 26th and talked to the doctor all the terms, how this is going to go and that we can start the procedure in february, or when I get my next period. My period is pretty regular, only 2-3 days difference between the cycles. Well, my last period was on december 23rd… it’s now February 1st and I still haven’t gotten my period. I took 4 pregnancy tests, all positive, with the second line as pink as it gets. I honestly don’t know what do to and if it really turns out I’m pregnant, I’m terrified to death of a miscarriage because of what I’ve read here. Is it possible I got pregnant? What are the risks? Is there any way I can carry this pregnancy to term? 😥

We have done 4 IVF-ICSI cycles as I have DOR and we get 0-2 eggs per cycle. We were otherwise unexplained until we requested DFI testing and my husbands came back at 42%. No one suggested this test to us, we learned about it here! My doctor said the solution is ICSI; so again we had to request TESA for our last cycle and we did get a quality blast from our one egg using TESA sperm.

Meanwhile my husband was diagnosed with a grade 2 varicocele. It was repaired in August and we just got the DFI re-test back at 20%! His other parameters all improved from average to good as well. Maybe even gives us a chance to conceive without assistance. It also means we can skip TESA this next round and just use ICSI.

While we haven’t had success yet we feel thankful for this sub and what we’ve learned.

Hi friends,

My husband has a grade 3 varicocele on the left testicle. Submitted DNA frag test and it came back 21%. Were in the middle of IVF and have decided to do TESE and ICSI. I’m 35 with about 11 mature eggs at this stage, hopefully more by Tuesday (our retrieval date).

Has anyone had a similar experience and been successful? Any words of encouragement appreciated! Hoping for at least ONE healthy embryo for transfer in March after PGT - A/M.

Time is not on our side as we are in our 40's and using donor eggs. Urologists suggest TESA due to high DNA fragmentation. Husband has grade I and II varicocele. Opinions?

​

I just order my DNA Fragmentation at home test. I have unilateral moderate varicocele and my wife has gone through two 1st trimester miscarriages. So far, we have not been able to identify any risk factors on her side, although still waiting on a few test results to come back. When I brought up the potential for DNA Fragmentation, our REI wrote it off because I have normal total/concentration (135 million total, 33.75 mil/ml concentration) and very good motility (88% progressive motility) - only 1% morphology though. Because of the varicocele, I know I am at risk, so I am testing on my own.

My REI immediately jumped to IVF if the rest of our labs came back clean, but to me that makes no sense if the only risk factor is DNA Fragmentation. I confirmed our clinic does not use a Zymot chip, so I can't see how IVF is going to help (my wife and I have no problem actually getting pregnant and the products of conception showed no genetic/chromosomal abnormalities). So we're definitely a little frustrated with the advice we have received so far.

I am hoping the DNA Fragmentation test will provide a bit more clarity either way (if low then we at least rule that out and if high then we think our treatment path becomes clearer). My question is on the use of the Zymot Chip. My understanding is that it helps pick up the most motile sperm, since those are the ones with little DNA Frag. But since my motility is so high, I am not sure how that would work. I know there are people with both high motility and high DNA Frag, but I just don't understand the science behind it all.

Does anyone have background info they can share?