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I love this show, but looking back it feels surprising how often BCS would make a point of showing the audience that something Saul said in BB was true. He really does have bad knees, he really did have 2 ex-wives (though no mention of a stepdad), a woman seems to have actually believed for a night that he was Kevin Costner (to be fair, that one was fun). In my opinion, his name is a pretty strange one. When he tells Walt in his first scene that his real name is McGill, it's a great moment that tells us what kind of scumbag he is. Instead of a sleazy Jewish lawyer stereotype, he's a sleazy lawyer who's willing to use that stereotype for personal gain, but will also throw it away immediately if he thinks a different tactic is better to work a client. While his character did tend to get more decent as he got fleshed out in BB, it still feels like it would make more sense for his real name to be something else, with McGill maybe being one of many aliases he throws around. All things considered it's not a big deal, but when it's his real name it feels strange that he would just give it to a new client like that, especially given how he feels about his real name and identity by that point in the timeline.

Now we all know Breaking Bad had its fair share of amazing quotes and one liners and Better Call Saul has a few too what are you favorite quotes, from who and why?

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question. I just started the series for the probably 100th time, I'm almost though the first episode, and the whole Jimmy x Howard interaction gave me so much ick. Like, I know Howard doesn't deserve what's coming to him, but man, the way he talks is just so... dickish??

" I have done this long enough to know that there are two kinds of heists: Those where the guys get away with it and those that leave witnesses. "

I mean technically Nacho recognized that Mike did it (and only because Nacho knew him, it's not like the train drivers do) but even then I'd still say that Mike got away with it.

Obviously, he was dead before Jimmy's business with the cartel deepened, but what do you think he would have done?

Spoiler alert for people who didn’t see it When Gus attempts to kill Lalo, easier option would be to also to kill nacho at the same time. Why let him go out and then plan an elaborate attempt to kill him? (The guy watching him at the motel for example)

This would mean watching all of BCS except for the final four episodes, then all of BB, then El Camino, and lastly those final four episodes of BCS.

I'd be especially curious to know what that experience was like, especially if it was someone's first time watching all of it.

Poor howard really got murderered because of these thugs and man,i can't tell you how much i got pissed off at this couple.

I am a fan of both BB universe shows but haven’t done a whole lot of deep diving on the lore of the creation of the two shows. Basically, I’ve been have this predominant, reoccuring thought during my 2nd rewatch of both series, and im wondering if any of yall see this the same way or have any thoughts on this.

It seems like, from the outside looking in, just as a huge fan of both shows, that BB serves mostly as a stepping stone to BCS. And this is NOT to say Breaking Bad isn’t groundbreaking and excellent in its own right. But the way that Better Call Saul doubles down on incredibly nuanced character development, technical strides like some of the best editing on the small screen I’ve ever seen, and breathtaking cinematography which I felt was never a major part of BB, it seems like Vince Gilligan was truly “in his bag” when creating BCS, even more so than BB. Like, my view is that Breaking Bad is awesome, enthralling and such a damn good story. But BCS is PERFECT. Literally perfect. Like everything good about BB is even better in BCS. All while taking WAY more risks and unexpected turns, and showing a lot more of Gilligan’s trademark creative mind. It just seems to me like BCS is so, so, so incredibly real and nuanced with its characters and story, much more than BB.

I know this is a whole lot of conjecture coming up right here, but is it possible that maybe Gilligan had less creative control or just less leeway in general over Breaking Bad seeing as it was his first shot in the mainstream, and since he had finally proven himself he could take these huge risks and make the show that truly defines his work: Better Call Saul.

In any case, I know none of this matters and both shows are great and I wouldn’t blame anyone for having one over the other. This isn’t about which is better, just a thought I had which I was wondering if anyone else shared. It’s a nice thought, that maybe the success of BB afforded Gilligan the chance to write a show like BCS that was maybe more in line with the story he really wanted to tell.

When Gus drinks the wine and is told of the bloody taste, is this symbolic of him almost drinking Salamanca's blood as goes the saying of the Salamanca's, "blood for blood". Then, he leaves the bar abruptly as a result of him becoming aware of this.

Don’t get it twisted: Howard didn’t deserve what he got, but he was still an asshole many times in the series. Not as big of an asshole as Chuck, but he was still a prick at times. I’m rewatching for the 4th or 5th time, but the first time since the series ended and seeing the “early” seasons again after knowing what happens makes me realize that Howard wasn’t a saint. Yeah I feel bad for what happened to him especially since his wife treated him like shit, but he wasn’t the good guy for a lot of the seasons either. Yeah it wasn’t his fault that Chuck prevented Jimmy from joining HHM, but he CHOSE to side with Chuck a lot of times after that, and when Jimmy wanted Sandpiper to settle, he made it difficult and refused to make things easier. Chuck was all the way wrong in the whole situation with Kim/Jimmy and Mesa Verde; but Howard still sided with him on it. Howard was pissed after the case but was angry at both sides. He told Chuck to retire and told Jimmy to kick rocks when Jimmy wanted them to settle. Howard never should’ve sided with Chuck in any scenario because Chuck was a straight up asshole and is responsible for everything in the Breaking Bad Universe if you trace everything back far enough.

Fuck Chuck.

It has just occured to me that not one but two characters, namely (har har) Gretchen Schwarz and Margarethe Ziegler share a name with a major character from Faust. For those of you who didn't happen to go to high school in Germany, where this is more or less mandatory reading, I'll provide a quick run-down of Faust Part One and the significance of Gretchen/Margarete (she is refered to by both names, one is a shortened version of the other) in the story:

Beginning of a long, long paragraph - feel free to skip this bit if you wanna miss out on a free lesson on Goethe's literature

In broad strokes the story of Faust follows a genius Polymath by the name of Heinrich Faust who, despite his best efforts in all fields of science and theology, finds himself unable to answer the real 'big questions' of life (what's the meaning of life; is there a God, that sort of stuff). It so happens that up in heaven above God and the devil have made a bet similar to the story of Job: the devil claims that he will be able, and easily so, to make Faust renounce the Lord through granting him earthly pleasures (I'm guessing since bestowing upon Job earthly anguish by the boatload didn't work out). So he comes down to earth to strike a deal with Faust. It goes as such: I'll be your servant in this life and if I manage to make you so happy that you say 'oh if only this moment could never pass' your soul is mine for the taking when your time comes. Faust agrees. Hey seems like a great idea doesn't it?

Skipping over some bits that arent relevant to this post, Faust and Mephisto (the devil) find themselves in a small village where Faust falls madly in love with, you guessed it, a girl named Gretchen. (It's of note that Gretchen is 14 and Faust is over 50 years old, though through magic his body is that of a young man again. Hey it was a very different time I guess)

After, and I genuinely mean this, pulling some Saul Goodman tier schemes with the help of Mephisto, Faust does manage to make Gretchen fall for him too. To 'seal the deal' he needs her extremely religious mother to give the two of them some space ans so he procures some sleeping pills and instructs Gretchen to mix them in with her mothers food. The two have sex and afterwards, obviously to Gretchen's dismay she finds out that she botched the dosage (or it might have been the devil's doing, who brought these pills in the first place) and in so doing has killed her mother. Worse yet, her brother shows up and figured the whole situation out pretty quickly. Him and Faust do battle and with the devil on his side he slays the brother, who's dying words to Gretchen are literally "you whore".

If that weren't bad enough, in a bout of intense post-nut-clarity Faust ditches her and fucks off to hang out with witches. As if that weren't bad enough, while he does that Gretchen realises she is pregnant. As if that weren't bad enough, she is shunned for this by her congregation with premarital sex being a big no-no and whatnot. As if that weren't bad enough, in a fit of (understandable) desperation she drown the child. And as if that weren't bad enough, she is caught, sentenced to death and shipped off to prison.

After a few more things, all of which are irrelevant to this discussion, Faust and Mephisto set out to rescue Gretchen from the slammer. They succeed in getting to her, however Gretchen refuses their 'earthly' saving and opts to face the worldly punishment for her actions to save her soul and make right with God. Which seems was a great call to make, as God directly says that she is saved.

That's about where the story ends as far as our dear Gretchen is concerned.

End of the long, long paragraph about german tragedies. Did I mention the entire thing is written in rhymes?

I'm just spinning my wheels here but I feel that in two shows like this, where so much attention is paid to detail, symbolism and foreshadowing, it has to mean something that this name comes up twice. What are your thoughts? How do the fates of Gretchen Schwartz and Margarethe Ziegler map on to this classic tragedy?

Smoke on the Water plays cuz it's about a casino burning down. A big fire. Well a big fire is a big plot point in the series. Jimmy plays Smoke on the Water, indirectly saying that he is the reason for why Chuck's house burned down

World's 2nd best lawyer IS the good romantic Jimmy to Kim and when that tumbler got shot, it was sorta like Jimmy died and the only thing that remains is Saul taking over

The plan to fuck up Howard in the hotel around season 5 feels as though scheming Jimmy and lawful Kim switched personalities

One of Nacho's gfs who was playing with the Dominos was probably used as a film element to tell that everything will fall down and probably was my favorite part

Yeah

This is such a petty post and quite frankly I might be the only one who noticed this. Before I get into my mini complaint, I want to start by saying that I think Bob Odenkirk is an exceptionally talented actor! He was born to play Saul and I can’t see any other actor nailing the role as much as him.

That said, has anyone else noticed how much he clicks his tongues before delivering lines??? I may have an acute case of misophonia because I get irrationally irritated each time I hear that tongue clicking sound. I noticed it a bit in BB but now there is not escaping it in BCS. I find it extremely distracting.

Am I the only one that notices this??? Lol

In plan and execution, when Cary drops the lemonade, he mentions that he doesn’t know who Charles McGill is. How is this possible that he doesn’t even know who the head of company is if he works for them ?

It’s a brilliant (re)introduction to Jimmy McGill. The ways they expand on him are surprising and fascinating. The pilot is exceptional. Chuck is a fantastic antagonist. Howard is a great red herring. The writers seem to have more fun with Jimmy and his misadventures in the world of law here than they do even after he embraces the Saul moniker (The desert scene with Tuco is particularly fantastic). And as much as I enjoy Gus, Lalo, etc. it is nice to be virtually 100% focused on Jimmy’s corner of the BB/BCS universe with very little Breaking Bad prequel stuff (some episodes feature Jimmy in every single scene while there are lots of season 3-6 episodes that give him the B plot in his own show).

Note: this is NOT to suggest that the following seasons represent a decline in quality. It’s really just personal preference

I'm rewatching and viewing Howard as less of a sympathetic character in light of his treatment of Kim throughout the series.

He didn't have a good reason for being such a dickhead. Kim never did anything wrong by supporting Jimmy, especially considering how Jimmy only went nuclear in response to Chuck's sabotaging. Punishing Kim makes no sense for Jimmy's early screwups in S1-S2. The fact that he didn't beg for her forgiveness and offer her a better role at HHM (instead of letting her go) says to me that he really disliked her on a personal level.

When he runs into Kim later, I was expecting that he would offer her a job at HHM, especially after hearing she left S&C. Kim would even be a logical choice for partner given HHM's difficulties. Seems reasonable given how he's trying to make amends for everything. He doesn't, and instead gives her a condescending, high-handed sermon about her and Jimmy. After seeing this, I feel like Kim is justified in wanting to knock him down and try to get the Sandpiper money.

Despite Howard looking sympathetic in other respects, his treatment of Kim shows his true colors. We feel bad for him because of how he tried to make it right with Jimmy, but it's clear he only did so out of guilt over Chuck and opportunism. He's still a giant pig fucker.

I have come across quite a few post stating that this guy is not worth the being the boss. But recebtly I have come across Narcos, and I draw similarities with the 3 boss of the biggest cartel after Escobar in the show. The Salamncas Cartel works very very similarly with the Gentlemen of Cali.

Essentially, Eladio is the heart. Juan is the head. Salamancas are the hands. I think this analogy explains them perfectly. Eladio as the heart, he deals in keeping the organization (body) running, dealing with mexican and americans officials, always throwing parties for both his men and his associates (and enemies). Essentially he keeps the blood running, without him (the heart) the organization lacks ‘morality’ (orders, drive for money only for blood and power since they have grown too big to care remember in 1 of their vaults it already have at least close to $50M). So yeah he is quite important. Think of the human heart, one of the ‘smallest’ organs, but without it the body dies. Bolsa is the head, that’s why he is always dressed in suits (same as Gus). He deals in logistics, act as a referee when there are internal conflicts, development strategies (Bolsa introduced Gus, which ateered the cartel into a VERY ‘succesful’ path). And then there are the salamancas, pure brawls, stupid even (Tucos, the cousins, etc.) They do nothing but kill and enforce orders within and outside the organizations. Together, Don Juan creates plans, deals with logistics, strategizes, Salamancas enforce the ‘laws’ and Eladionkeeps the organization going including ‘hidden’ actions (we conceal the heart, let it runs hopefully normal forever and rarely see the heart until it bleeds), those are the 3 Dons. Each is important in their own way, without one the cartel is in ruin. Even the brute salamancas! Remember the cartel begins to die down when Hector was hospitalized.

There is a saying in my culture in rough translation: ‘You can’t do anything with 1, but 3 together can scale moutains’.

What the hell's that supposed to mean?

still alive when they read Kim's confession (Obviously only Mike, Gus and his men actually know/Knew that Lalo is dead)

So I can't imagine that the police would just not care about trying to find him. Now, not just for Fred Whalen's murder but also for Howard Hamlin's murder

(Sometimes I get the impression that this sub thinks that the police wouldn't bother caring to try to find Lalo because the police would just assume that he went back to Mexico)

Any thoughts as to the ultimate fate of Marion’s two sons?

I was just rewatching the scene where Lalo went to Jimmy and Kim's for the first time. Mike had a clear shot of Lalo in the parking lot when he left. I realized that if Mike killed Lalo in the middle of the parking lot the cops would have no clue that he just left Jimmy and Kim's place but Gus would know. What would that mean for Jimmy and Kim if anything?

Im watching tge series for a third time. And Im picking up so much. I'm at the point where Kim and Jimmy have started the process of "bringing Howard down a peg." I believe that is close to her exact sentence when they are discussing the idea in the hotel.

Throughout the series, we talk a lot about Jimmy's PTSD, how losing Chuck and his guilt over that literally split him in two. But we rarely talk about Kim's trauma.

We think she is so strong and so good that she is the check and balance that keeps Jimmy on track. And of course she has had the trauma of growing up with an alcoholic single mother who moved them on a dime to stay ahead of the landlord. And the anger at Howard and Chuck for all that they did to both Kim and Jimmy. It was constant, targetted and relentless.

But the tipping point was Jimmy's "bad choice road" of getting involved with the cartel, although I'm not sure he had much choice by the time his mint chocolate chip ice cream was melting by the side of the road.

When Jimmy went missing and she thought he was dead for 3 days, Kim cracked. She was definitely experiencing PTSD from that, evidenced by the fact that she went in the next day and spontaneously quit her job - leaving behind the very account which started all the trouble in the first place.

Then she sees the bullethole in the mug with 100k in a dufflebag right in front of her.

The full on breaking point was the visit from Lalo to the apartment. She FELT that she, or worse Jimmy could die at any moment.

Like Jimmy, her alter ego came to life as a reaction to those back to back experiences.

Tgen Howard, like Suzanne and Kevin before him, had the gall to insinuate that Jimmy wasnt good enough for her. Then said, "yku know who knew Jimmy? Chuck. Bringing up, once again, all the shitty things they did to both of them. And her anger at ALL of it was centefed on Howard at that moment.

It was HER PTSD, just like Jimmy's PTSD, that caused her to break bad too.

I mean, she does know that Saul Goodman is one of the main characters in Breaking Bad and he stays alive through the show.

Was Kim’s character (slightly) inspired by amber, Wilson’s girlfriend? In dr house, amber pretends to be a married couple with Wilson to con her way into having a discount on a mattress bed and in another scene she tells Wilson how she doesn’t need him to take care of her because she can take care of herself. She said it in the same tone than Kim when she said “I save me”. Maybe I’m reading too much into this lol but I watched dr house yesterday and couldn’t help but see the similarities.

The season 3 finale had me an emotional wreck, I wasn’t expecting it to happen again with season 4. But that damn karaoke scene broke me and now I’m listening to ABBA and crying in the back of an Uber. That’s all.

It took me 5 years to realize this was a love story. His demise was ultimately for her. He gave up 7 years and risked it all to prove to her, the exact thing she proved to him. They couldn’t be together without chaos. And he drove the rest of the nail in.
I bet Kim is still visiting him in Montrose to this day.