Is this something to aim for? Something that actually can be? Is it an option for anyone? Does it matter? Is this a question one should be asking or only natural?

I see this terminology pass by in many (translated) koans which made me wonder how it happens, but also to whom it is to happen and wonder what you think, but also what your insights, perspectives, contemplations and considerations regarding this are for you on a personal scale, but also grander in the “school of chan/zen”

In T1997 Records of the Teachings of Chan Master Yuanwu Foguo we see multiple mentions of "The Middle Way Teaching" (教中道). We will be examining this in the next few posts.

I was to prime us for this series with a passage from Yanshou's Record of the Source Mirror where he explains that Zen is the Middle Way teaching, and says when you have examples of extremes, polarities, enlightenment and delusion, etc. the cutting down the middle, is the middle way. I was going to post that passage a few days ago, but haunted by the prospective outcome (spooky Halloween noises) I did not.

So, today we're mainly looking at this passage from Yuanwu's record, where we find an explanation of the mirror with no stand:

便云。和尚放下拄杖子。別通箇消息來。方契他意。而今參學兄弟。直須是箭鋒相拄針芥相投內外絕消息始得。若只尋見尋聞求知求解。只成箇生死根本。何不體取無生了本無速。若能箇箇如是見。生死路一時截斷。全不動一絲毫頭。所以道。居千人萬人中。如無一人相似。只是歇得身心。百無知解。如無用處一般。若是隨言逐句作道理。滿肚皮是禪。何時得脫去。故南泉禪師道。山僧出世。只為諸人。拈却佛病祖病。老僧尋常向兄弟道。父母未生前。還有形貌也無。他教中道。四大五蘊成身。只因父母交感一念染心。而成此身。我且問爾。哆哆和和時。何不共人相爭。及至纔長大。便有爭人爭我。四大一旦離散。依前還復本來形貌。故云。菩提本無樹。明鏡亦非臺。本來無一物。何處惹塵埃。各宜勉力。以悟為期。莫虛度光陰。時不待人。

The teacher said: Put down your staff, Master, and bring a new message that truly conveys the meaning. As for those who are now studying, you must engage with sharpness like arrows meeting head-on, like needle tips aligning perfectly, with no inner or outer distractions whatsoever. If you simply search for sights, sounds, knowledge, and understanding, you are merely strengthening the roots of birth and death. Why not realize the essence of non-arising and swiftly attain the original ground? If each one of you could see in this way, the path of birth and death would be cut off all at once, without the slightest movement.

This is why it is said: ‘Amid a thousand or ten thousand people, there is none quite like oneself.’ It is simply a matter of letting go of body and mind, free of any thought or knowledge, as though you were entirely unused or purposeless. If you chase after words and sentences, reasoning out their meaning, filling your belly with ‘Chan,’ when will you ever escape?

Thus, Chan Master Nanquan said, ‘I entered this world for you all, casting aside the burdens of Buddha and Patriarchs alike. Often, I say to you all: Before your parents were born, did you have any form or appearance?’

(他教中道。四大五蘊成身) In the Middle Way Teaching, it is said that the body is made up of the four elements and the five aggregates, arising from a single thought of attachment at the time of your parents' union, forming this body. Now I ask you—when you were babbling and playing as a baby, why didn’t you compete with others? Yet, as soon as you grew up, there arose conflict over self and others. When the four elements disperse one day, you will return to your original form.

“This is why it is said, ‘Bodhi is fundamentally without a tree; the clear mirror is also not a stand. Originally, there is not a single thing—where could dust alight?’

“Each of you must make an effort to seek awakening as your goal. Do not waste time idly, for time waits for no one.”

You often see the four elements and five aggregates being raised in Zen by masters and in discussion, people will call these "Buddhist" aspects of the record, and while the "Buddha Dharma", "teachings of the Buddha", etc. appears throughout the record, you also see masters refer to the teachings as the "Middle Way teachings"...

Some people who reject that Zen is a school of Buddhism (often those who reject reality) seem to place an emphasis on the matter of winning and losing and even arbitrarily apply it to conversations over "mundane matters", when that seems pretty antithetical to Zen, as illustrated above, and what I've read in the past where Yuanwu called Zen's state "non-contentious samadhi". Above we read: "Now I ask you—when you were babbling and playing as a baby, why didn’t you compete with others? Yet, as soon as you grew up, there arose conflict over self and others." Is Zen not about killing this self by realizing its inherent empty nature? Time waits for no one... even if idling for 10 years.

Yuanwu's recorded sayings text also states,

The master said, "A thoroughly understood koan does not separate one by even a hair's breadth. It encompasses the entire world and is a great gate to liberation, as bright as the sun and moon, as vast as the empty sky. There is no difference between the original source of the patriarchs and the Buddhas; from ancient times to the present, they share the same true view. For those with sharp faculties and superior wisdom, there is no need to deliberate. They immediately stand like a wall a thousand feet high, acknowledging it directly within their own roots. They can then encompass the past and present, severing the head of the Buddha of retribution and transformation, without the slightest leakage.

The transformation is in the eighth consciousness, and the samadhi with no leakage is documented in Human and Celestial Eyes, Dongshan inherited from Yunyan Tansheng the Wisdom of the Three Types of Leakage (三種滲漏, shenlou) )(aka No Leakage), and the baojing sanmei (宝鏡三昧 "Jewel Mirror Samādhi).

Using the jewel sword of non-duality to cut away all confusions both ends fall away. Left with the Middle Way.

The monk then quoted, “How could it compare to the setting sun and the solitary wild goose flying together? The autumn waters merge with the vast sky into one color.”

The master said, “Drawing the bow after the thief has fled.”

Then the master continued, “Inside, there is no mind; outside, no form. Above, no Buddhas to revere; below, no sentient beings to grieve over. Greed, jealousy, and stinginess are all eliminated. Compassion, joy, and equanimity are dispensed with. Cutting off both ends, the Middle Way is unhindered. Utterly naked, there is nothing to take on. Bare and exposed, without contradiction—striking it does not muddy it, lifting it does not make it clear, stirring it does not move it, and twisting it does not turn it.

(Imagine playing Bop It with that? "Strike it, stir it, twist it" . . . Game over!)

The "thief having fled" is a reference to the eighth consciousness teaching. It is said the 6th consciousness is the thief of the mind, and I recently posted about how cutting the 8th leaves no worry of the thieves or bandits. Also, this from Charles Luk's Chan and Zen Teaching: "For this reason we are obliged to have recourse to this hua t'ou and use its 'Vajra King's Precious Sword' to kill all these thieves so that the eighth consciousness can be transmuted into the Great Mirror Wisdom, the seventh into the Wisdom of Equality, the sixth into the Profound Observing Wisdom and the first five consciousnesses into the Perfecting Wisdom." etc.

We'll explore more of Yuanwu's record's references to the Middle Way teachings in part 2, and possibly 3...

#Intro

Colophons usually refer to information about a book and its author stamped on it. I've seen the term used to describe Mingben and other Zen Masters' instructional commentary on artwork or texts penned by their own hand.

Most of the examples of this genre of Zen instruction are left untranslated, uncatalogued, and in the hands of museums, temples, or private individuals.

The obvious caveat is that handwritten texts can be forged, which the Smithsonian Museum has shown could be the case here by remarking,

*The first three colophons on the Fanlong scroll also appeared on a recorded handscroll painting

of the Sixteen Luohan attributed to the late-Tang poet, painter, and Chan monk, Guanxiu 貫休 (832–912). Instead of Zhongfeng Mingben, as here, on that scroll the first colophon is dated 1100 and signed as Su Guo 蘇過 (1072–1123), younger son of Su Shi 蘇軾 (1037–1101). The second recorded colophon on that scroll (third on the Freer scroll, where it is signed by Yuansou Xingduan) is dated 1315 and attributed instead to Zhao Mengfu 趙孟頫 (1254–1322). And the third colophon (second on the Freer scroll, where it is signed as Tiechuan jushi) is attributed to the renowned Chan prelate Jitan Zongle 季潭宗泐 (1318–1391). The recorded scroll concludes with a brief notice attributed to Ni Zan 倪瓚 (1306–1374), anachronistically dated to the guichou year of the Zhizheng 至正 reign period (1341–68), a year that would correspond to 1373. The recorded Su Guo text (which lacks the dedication on the Freer scroll) is eighteen characters shorter than, and contains other discrepancies with, its counterpart on the Freer scroll, while the two remaining texts also contain minor discrepancies with their respective counterparts. While the authenticity of the recorded scroll and its colophons may be suspect, the fact that the three texts are attributed to other writers introduces an element of doubt concerning the otherwise unrecorded Freer colophons as well*

The Smithsonian

https://asia-archive.si.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/F1960-1_Documentation.pdf

#The Artwork

Here is a link to the artwork in question.

Title: 《十六應真圖 》 The Sixteen Luohan's Painter: 梵隆 Fanlong, 12th Century

#Mingben's Colophon

The Smithsonian article I linked in the Introduction provided a unreadable-rough translation but I plugged the Chinese into ChadGPT and got something rough but at least in readable English.

The eighteen sages abiding in the world, each with their own realized samadhi, display various marvels and distinct realms. Their supernatural transformations and profound functions are beyond comprehension. One only sees lofty mountains towering against the sky, deep blue seas swelling beneath clear skies, ancient trees and new bamboo, evergreen pines amid strange rocks; the reverence of empresses and nobles, and the attendance of local deities and wild guardians. Long serpents drink in qi, dissolving their own toxic flames, while fierce tigers submit, their imposing auras dissipated. They sit majestically, embodying self-possession, and walk with endless dignity, so that as one reads these scrolls, one feels transported to the vast stone bridges of Fangguang. Teachings state, “Externally, they manifest as Śrāvakas, while within they secretly engage in the practices of Bodhisattvas.” Their outward “manifestations” thus completed, the so-called “inner secrecy” also belongs to the realm of perception, allowing for the following verse:

“Strange forms and wondrous shapes, unfettered by snares, Realizing that all realms are mind-made, each seamlessly united. Beyond the stories of the eighteen, no brush can capture empty space.”

Elder Bian brought out a scroll stored in his traveling case, and one day, during a break from meditation, he held it up, requesting an inscription for the back. Respectfully inscribed by Elder Hantou Mingben of the Western Tianmu Mountain.

#Decoding

The bulk of the first paragraph would be interesting scholarship material if we can figure out who the 16 people in the artwork are, what is being depicted in the scene, and what Zen Masters say about those people. The only clue I have is that there is a tradition of groups of 16, 18, or 500 close disciples of Zen Master Buddha depicted as remaining in the world and not departing until the end of the world and the coming of the the future Buddha, Maitreya but we just aren't there yet in terms of people with enough time on their hands to undertake a task like that so we're left with Mingben's instruction on what it means to be enlightened.

1. Seeing reality directly without blinding yourself to any part of it.

2. The different states of mind do not deviate in their origin from each other.

3. The Zen transmission can't be captured by any particular manifestation of it.

From Sun-Face Buddha: The Teachings of Ma-tsu and the Hung-chou School of Ch'an, p. 65:

All of you should penetrate your own minds; do not record my words. Even if principles as numerous as the sands of Ganges are spoken of, the mind does not increase. And if nothing is said, the mind does not decrease. When there is speech, it is just your own mind. If there is silence, it is still your own mind. Even if one could produce various transformation bodies, emit rays of light and manifest the eighteen transformations, that is still not like becoming like dead ashes.

Wet ashes are without power, and can be compared to the Sravakas who falsely cultivate causes in order to obtain the fruits. Dry ashes are with power, and are like the Bodhisattvas whose karma is mature and who are not defiled by any evil. If one is to speak about all expedient teachings of the tripitaka that the Tathagata has expounded, even after innumerable kalpas one still would not be able to finish them all. It is like an endless chain. But if one can awaken to the Holy Mind, then there is nothing else to do, You have been standing long enough. Take care!

This describes arriving at the Absolute from within the Relative. Taking phenomena as they appear, observe their nature: knowing their existence is Mind, knowing their non-existence is Mind, knowing preferences is Mind, knowing no preferences is Mind. Samsara compassionately exists merely to point you back toward your own Mind. What if anything stops you from realizing this?

CASE

A monk asked Tung Shan, "What is Buddha?"

Tung Shan said, "Three pounds of hemp."

Why does the monk trouble Dongshan with questions about the Buddha? Because their exchange, and experience was both framed and enabled by Buddhism. Buddha was an awakened one, a person awakened to their true nature. Wouldn't that be wonderful?

Their true nature was three pounds of hemp. In the commentary, Yunmen says no to:

"They were in the storehouse at the time, that's why they answered like that."

"Dongshan was asked about the East and answered from the West" (Meaning he was asked about a Universal, Existential question and he answered from a conventional and worldly perspective thus illustrating the interdependence of void and form. (Nope!)

"Since you are Buddha, you go about asking about Buddha, and Dongshan says this in a roundabout way" IE - if hemp, then certainly YOU!

"Three pounds of hemp is itself Buddha" - Dongshan calls this interpretation the interpretation of a dead man because the idea of a bunch of hemp being Buddha is unfathomable.

But, Bodhisattvas - the case is about words. We can't just have jumbled speech, and so one word comes after another, meaning is built up, and we get to exercise concepts. This case, I think, is asking us to loosen our ties to finding meaning in the words.

Where does that leave us?

When we think of the different sets of beliefs people adopt as them playing different games with rules and win-conditions the contrast with Zen and the "game" of dharma-combat is obvious.

Some examples,

#Christianity (Protestant)

##Rules

You must:

###Believe that The Bible has wisdom in its pages.

###Believe that your soul is originally stained with sin.

###Believe that a magic-zombie-jesus that can clean away your sins by prayer

##Win/Lose State

###Going to Heaven; going to Hell after you die.

####We know you're a Christian by your belief in the above.

#Perrenialist New Ager

##Rules

You must:

###Believe that underlying all the world's religions and philosophies there is a perennial spirituality with perennial truths common to all of them.

###Believe that there exists a lesser-self/ego/delusion that deludes your true self.

###Believe that you can transcend your lesser-self/ego/delusion by the supernatural experiences of meditation, psychedelics, and trance-states.

##Win/Lose State

###Attaining unity with your true self.

####We know you're a Perrenialist New Ager by your belief in the above.

I had a breakdown of Buddhism's faith-rules and it's win-lose states but I typed over that.

Things get weird when we look at what Zen Masters are doing since they neither prescribe belief in doctrine nor attainment nor escape from states of being.

It's like they're winning 24/7 without even trying. Things get ugly for religion really quick when we consider how religion isn't like games at all. After all, no one starts crusades, perpetuates poverty, and lies about Zen Masters in the name of Settlers of Catan.

But I think it works to show how Christians, Buddhists, and New Agers all bind themselves in pursuit of an outcome.

Since the practice of Zen is public interview, I'm interested in finding out why people believe they need salvation/enlightenment/mystical union when Zen Masters showed everyone that they don't need to.

But it takes two to tango and if people aren't willing to AMA about their beliefs in a Zen forum, they won't be curious to know what Zen Masters have to say about them in the Zen forum.

It all comes down to self-awareness, if you aren't even going to take inventory of your beliefs and acknowledge where they put you in terms of "game" you are in the wrong forum.

Oddly enough, there are faith-based social movements and religions that are famous for advertising

harmony and inner peace

but in practice these groups are super angry at Zen.

Whenever their brands come up in this forum, there's a lot of content and vote brigading from other forums. These people want to profess their faith and get really angry when they are told that their faith has nothing to do with Zen.

Not Zen (and not interested)

The main groups of people who come in here and claim to be affiliated with Zen and even authoritative on the topic of Zen all feature people who are almost completely ignorant of Zen tradition and culture.

Over the last decade that I've been here debunking these groups claims of association with Zen has formed wiki pages:

1. Alan Watts & Christian humanists

• www.reddit.com/r/zen/wiki/sexpredators

2. Zazen prayer-meditation religion

   • www.reddit.com/r/zen/wiki/notmeditation
   • www.reddit.com/r/zen/wiki/secular_dogen
   • www.reddit.com/r/zen/wiki/zazen

3. 8f Path Buddhists

• Four statements of Zen, wiki link in sidebar

4. Awakening New agers and meditation worshippers
   • www.reddit.com/r/zen/wiki/modern_religions

the face of religious bigotry

The most telling theme in all of this anti-zen sentiment is that none of these groups are really interested in Zen at all.

They don't have textual references.

They don't get upset with us and then go off and study Zen history and then historical records (koan).

They don't particularly care that Zen Masters ever had anything to say about any of the stuff that these faiths are concerned with.

But most importantly, the peace and Harmony that these groups claim to have developed through their practice immediately evaporates exposing it as sham that it is.

Do.You Even Chatechism Bro?

One of the big problems, if not, the biggest problem is that these groups are all ignorant of their own religious beliefs, specifically those core elements of their faith that define it.

So they don't care that the Four Statements of Zen might reject their catechism cuz they don't even know what it is.

I could write out a catechism for each of these groups because I have pwnd them so many times but I don't think they care.

So the question is does anybody who actually is interested in Zen want to understand why any particular faith-based catechism from these groups is incompatible?

I see dead white people

One reason poorly educated Western privilege types are drawn to cult figures like sex predator drug addict defrocked christian minister college dropout Alan Watts is that these groupie followers have low self worth, and Christian Humanism is all about believing everybody is valuable.

Zen Masters absolutely reject that. Zen Masters compare unenlightened people to zombies. Without enlightenment you are "dead inside".

Yuanwu, BCR book of instruction: If you say it exists, then you are blind;

if you say it doesn't exist, then you are dead.

Dead. Zombie dead. Mouth moves, but only mouth noises come out. Not real words, not a living person.

Christian Humanism is all about being saved through faith, and being saved means not thinking of yourself as a garbage person. If you work hard and obey the church, then the Protestants tell you that you have value. But if you don't work hard and don't obey the church? And aren't successful academically, spiritually, socially, economically? Those are all the successes. Without those you are a garbage person. Which is why Christian Humanism is so popular, and Alan Watts type gurus can make a buck off of these people who feel like losers from all the garbage life they have.

But in Zen, hard work and successes won't cut it. Without enlightenment, you are just a dead zombie loser no matter what you do or what you believe.

Dead Zombie losers rejoice!

But whose fault is it that people feel deeply and have come to believe that they are garbage people in need of faith to save them?

Christian Faith: Make a deal with god or you are a garbage person.

Christian Humanist Faith: All humans have value, there are no garbage people.

Zen Masters: Value is bullsh**. There is no good/bad or value/garbage. The whole structure of that thinking is zombie brain follower delusion.

Huangbo: … since you are fundamentally complete in every aspect you should not try to supplement that perfection by meaningless practices [like meditation, prayer, or Christian Humanist affirmation BS].

This is why Zen Masters aren't "bad people" for telling you that without enlightenment you are dead inside. Because being dead inside doesn't make you less valuable. Because THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS VALUE IRL.

This is why Zen Masters say that BS beliefs ARE WHAT MAKE YOU DEAD INSIDE, because you depend on them, instead of on your own heart, to know what "value" is.

I can't save you from yourself

Christians, Christian Humanists, 8f Path Buddhists, and Zazen prayer-meditation, are all about convincing people that belief is what makes things valuable and true.

Zen is all about recognizing you are alive.

What is the HIGHEST HOLY TRUTH OF ZEN MASTER BUDDHA'S DHARMA LAW?

Bodhidharma said, "Emptiness of belief and value, with nothing holy about that".

And of course nobody can make anybody better, since there is no better.

Shazam.

Worship... what does it mean?

Our friend google provides us the etymology:

The word "worship" comes from the Old English word weorþscipe, which means "worthiness" or "worth-ship". The word is made up of two parts:

Worth/wurth/weorth: All mean "worthy"

Suffix scip/scipe: Eventually became ship and means "the state or condition of being"

The word "worship" literally means "to give something worth" or "to demonstratively attribute value". When used as a verb, "worship" means ascribing worth to a being or object.

The modern English usage would be something like "to use faith to make something worthy of reverence".

Sex predator drug addict college drop out christian priests like Alan Watts

Without worship, people like Alan Watts aren't going to be seen as "worthy" of anything. By every bench mark in human society, Alan Watts was a total loser who drank himself to death at a young age because of mental health problems.

Only illiterate white people could possible think Watts was an authority on a 1,000 year tradition that passed from India into China (but not Japan), a tradition built on socialist 5 Lay Precept communities who practiced relentless public interview as the focus of the spiritual lives.

Often I talk to these illiterate white people, and they do not even TRY to make the argument that Alan Watts benefited -or even understood- from the things he claimed to "entertain" people about.

There isn't an option for valuing Alan Watts other than worship. Worship though is the natural, on-your-knees state of the American white male these days though. Turn on the TV. There aren't a ton of them solving social, political, or economic problems right now. There are though a ton of them worshipping other white dudes.

Zen Masters reject worship absolutely

Let's give them the floor, since it's a forum about them. A recent flood of white worshippers seem to have forgotten that:

Foyan - YOU must

This is called awaken­ing, or breakthrough, or discovery. You must attain this at least once; only then can it be said that the task of the journey is done.

• Foyan uses the phrase "you must" roughly thirty times in his record.

What do you people come to me for? Each individual should lead life autonomously— don’t listen to what other people say. An ancient declared, “ I knew how to lead life by the time I was eighteen.” You people must learn to live independently.

• You can't be independent if you worship losers-at-life like Alan Watts. Find somebody who didn't drink themselves to death, and ask their opinion about addicts. Find a woman, any woman, and ask if a sex predator is ever a wise man.

Huangbo - not about creating belief in others

Why do they not copy me by letting each thought go as though it were nothing, or as though it were a piece of rotten wood, a stone, or the cold ashes

of a dead ire? Or else, by just making whatever slight response is suited to each occasion? If you do not act thus, when you reach the end of your days here, you will be tortured by Yama.

• You can see people are already tortured... that's what worshipping drug addict sex predators with mental health problems does to a person. Tortures them. Try worshipping Mr. Rogers instead. Not only will you not be tortured, you won't be able to maintain the worship.

If you suppose there is a Dharma to be preached, you will naturally ask me to expound it, but if you postulate a me that implies a spaciat entity! The Dharma is no Dharma-it is mind!

• Here it comes, and it will like sting, high school book report stylez, dharma means "law", or that-by-which-value-is-known. GASP! So the dharma of Alan Watts worshippers is? Well, I mean it's topicalism, sure, but in detail it's Christian Humanism Says I Am Valuable Even If I'm Total Human Garbage. That's a dharma. Lots of people would rather have that then a personal code. Obviously. Very popular atm.

And Zhaozhou

Zhaozhou, who's words burn the living dead Alan Watts worshippers like holy water, or so I imagine in my more fanciful moments:

Monk: "I've come a long way to see you, it's not clear to me. What is your family custom?

Zhaozhou: I don't talk about it to people.

Monk: Why don't you talk about it to people?

Zhaozhou: That's my family custom.

Monk: You do not talk about it, but why do the four seas (all the people in the world) come to see you?

Zhaozhou: You are the sea, I am not the sea.

Monk: It's not clear to me, what is the sea?

Zhaozhou: I've hooked one!

Aside from how-you-gonna-worship that, the Alan Watts worshipper is so brain dead from all those excuses about how it's okay for this guy to be a sex predator, drug addict, college drop out, white authority on asia, let's be honest. Worshippers of all kinds have never been good at high school book reports, or high school generally.

That's why they turn to worship- because there is no work required. You just get down on your knees and pray for faith. And by A MIRACLE, you believe the dumbest @#$# ever.

You've been served

If you want to go to trail trial, by all means, present your evidence.

Please give me advice on where to begin 🙏.

At the end of the book Mingben states he never found the enlightenment that everyone told him he would find. This has been on my mind quite a bit. If everything is illusion, when someone says "I am enlightened" they are either NOT enlightened because enlightenment / buddahhood is an illusion, or they are enlightened / see their own buddahhood and trying to explain to someone who exists within the illusion.

So, Mingben says he never attained it because it's an illusion, but if he found a way to see past the illusion is this not enlightenment / seeing ones own buddahhood?

This seems like some of paradoxical things I enjoy from Zen.

Don't be all 1900's Buddhist about it

One of the biggest problems in modern Zen scholarship is the general level of ignorance about Zen, and the fact that most people who wrote about Zen in the 1900's were Buddhists by training and faith. It's like having Christians do all the scholarship on Wicca.

Another problem is that 1900's scholars and scholarship is that what's happened in the last quarter century is mostly out of reach to pop culture. People on social media still think debunked scholarship is "pretty accurate", despite the 1900's being wrong about so much, especially Asian cultures.

The most recent problem is not special to Zen scholars, of course, but it's the Ttump era, particularly the last decade, which normalized disinformation and harassment censorship. Which is why there is so much downvote brigading and so little debate on this forum or on any Buddhist forum. Why debate when you are wrong? Why debate when you can simply harass somebody off a platform?

3 easy ways Zen is not Buddhism

1. Zen Masters are Buddhas, Buddhist Masters are not

• Buddhism is a submission to Buddha as their messiah: The best wiki page on Buddhism anywhere on the internet!

www.reddit.com//r/zen/wiki/buddhism

• The four statements clearly say become a Buddha. The only wiki page on the Four Statements of Zen anywhere on the internet https://www.reddit.com/r/zen/wiki/fourstatements

2. Zen Masters teach sudden enlightenment, Buddhists teach practice/conformity self-improvement.

• Huangbo's famous "sudden as a knife thrust", and of course "see nature, become a Buddha" from the Four Statements.
• In contrasts, Buddhism requires faith in rebirth, because nobody is going to get anywhere on the 8f path in one lifetime.

3. Zen Master teach Bridget Jones "just as you are" Buddha nature, Buddhists teach karmic sin you need to purify

• "Right thought" does not sit well with many people because it is so obviously though policing. But purity requires purity of thought, doesn't it?
• Huangbo's "you are inherently complete" is what we might call the "Bridget Jones Assertion", aks "Just as you are": https://youtu.be/oZu2JfM2Aq8

Nobody is going to argue it

The problem with civil public debate is that there has to be two sides... and there just aren't. We know there is no meditation in Zen. We have all seen that Buddhism and Zen are not only incompatible, but are entirely dissimilar (unlike Buddhism and Christianity).

Much like nobody in the Ttump era argues that the man isn't a felon, a sex predator, and a racist. Nobody argues it because it isn't true.

It's just that harassment stops papers from endorsing the other candidate.

^( )52. Your Light May Go Out^( )

A student of Tendai, a philosophical school of Buddhism, came to the Zen abode of Gasan as a pupil. When he was departing a few years later, Gasan warned him: "Studying the truth speculatively is useful as a way of collecting preaching material. But remember that unless you meditate* constantly your light of truth may go out."

*meditate as used here appears to me just being aware of your existence and your existing. And light of truth is just a discerning eye. As one that has been both befuddled and clear, the attending of existence does fine by both. The problems are seeing clear as not clear. Befuddled as not befuddled.

What would be the light that could go out?

Edit: Contextual source. If gateless gate is molten iron, then 101 zen stories is the compressed wooden fuel.
https://terebess.hu/zen/101ZenStones.pdf
(see №97)

As you may have noticed, I had been doing an investigation into various 7/8 phrases in the Zen record, and I just so happened to come across another this morning.

The phrase is 七颠八倒 (qī diān bā dǎo - seven 颠 (overturning, turning) eight 倒 (fall, reverse, topple)). Baidu says that this phrase originates from the Transmission of the Lamp, and they provide this sentence as its origin, where it appears solely as the answer in response to a question:

宋·释道原《景德传灯录》卷二十一：“问如何是佛法大师，师曰：‘七颠八倒。’

Question: What is a master of the Buddha Dharma? The master replied: 'Seven tumbles and eight falls.'

I then saw that it appears frequently throughout the records, but for this post I am simply examining X1315 古尊宿語錄 (Record of Ancient Patriarchs' Sayings) and would like to highlight some of these occurrences available in that record below:

師有時拈拄杖云。乾坤大地殺活總在這裏。僧便問。如何是殺。師云。七顛八倒。僧云。如何是活。師云。要作飯頭。僧云。不殺不活時如何。師便起云。摩訶般若波羅蜜。

The master, at times, would pick up his staff and say, “The power of life and death over the entire universe lies right here.” A monk then asked, “What is ‘killing’?” The master replied, “Seven tumbles and eight falls.” The monk asked, “What is ‘giving life’?” The master said, “You need to become the chief cook.” The monk then asked, “What about when there is neither killing nor giving life?” The master immediately stood up and said, “Mahāprajñāpāramitā” (Great Perfection of Wisdom).

And

問。生死事大。如何免得攀緣去。　師云。喚什麼作生死。　進云。與麼即是佛性也。　師云。又是七顛八倒。

Student: "The matter of life and death is of utmost importance. How can we avoid clinging to it?"

Master: "What do you call life and death?"
Student: "Isn’t this precisely the Buddha-nature?"
Master: "That is also seven tumbles and eight falls."

And what is below, also appears in Yunmen's record (T1988 雲門匡真禪師廣錄), though the text below is from X1315:

師云。皮枯骨瘦。　問。如何是道。　師云。七顛八倒。　進云。為什麼如此。　師云。一不得向。二不得開。

Student: "What is the Dao?"

Master: "Seven tumbles and eight falls."
Student: "Why is it so?"
Master: "One must not approach; two must not open."

And

上堂。今朝三月初五。普天之下好雨。非[A12]但百姓歌謠。老僧不勝手舞。何也。豈不見乾闥婆王奏樂。迦葉起舞。直得須彌岌嶪。海水騰波。驀拈拄杖云。大眾。一波纔動眾波隨。萬法皆從一法歸。衲子大家同會取。七顛八倒總光輝。擲下拄杖。下座。

In the Hall: "This morning is the fifth day of the third month. It is raining beautifully across the land. Not only the common people are singing ballads; the old monk cannot help but dance. Why is that? Do you not see the king of the Gandharvas playing music while Kāśyapa dances? The mountains rise steeply like Mount Sumeru, and the sea surges with waves.

Suddenly, he picked up his staff and said, 'Everyone, when one wave stirs, all waves follow. All phenomena return to a single principle. Let us all together partake in this.'

In the end, with seven tumbles and eight falls, there is total brilliance.'

He threw down the staff and left the seat."

And

還有麼。良久。云。若無。且看老僧騎案山。跳入你諸人眼睛裏。七顛八倒。呵佛罵祖去也。喝一喝。下座。

"Is there anything else?" After a long while, he said, "If there is not, just watch the old monk ride the abbot's seat and jump into all your eyes. With seven tumbles and eight falls, I will curse the Buddha and scold the ancestors." He shouted once and then left the seat.

And

師云。看者兩箇老古錐。竊得臨濟些子活計。各自分疆列界。氣衝宇宙。使明眼衲僧只得好笑。諸禪德。且道笑作什麼。還知落處麼。若知。一任七顛八倒。若不知。且向三聖．興化葛藤裏咬嚼。下座。

[...] All you Zen masters, tell me, what is the meaning of this laughter? Do you know where it lands? If you know, you can tumble seven times and fall eight times. [...]

I'll end with this one...

問。請師出榍。　師云。七顛八倒。

Question: "Please, Master, clarify this." Master: "Seven tumbles and eight falls."

Have you come across this phrase before?

What is your interpretation of the phrase based on the passages provided above?

Was Humpty Dumpty sitting atop Bodhidharma's wall?

I made a comment on ewk's post about the first statement and it kind of got too big for a comment so I'm putting it here as a post. It's a bit wild, so feel free to pick it apart and school me on how I'm wrong.

First, I'll give you ewk's introductory passage and interpretation of the line:

教外別傳..... A separate transmission beyond doctrines.

We study Zen in order to understand what Zen tradition is all about... what kept it going for 1,000 years, until their communal land was confiscated?

Like a recipie, it's not about the words. This "transmission" is discussed in the texts, but it is not contained in the texts. Just like a recipie, it's texts are just instruction about the thing, the texts aren't the thing itself.

別傳, interestingly, is translated as "supplementary biography" by my dictionary. Taken by themselves, 別 is "special" or "separate", 傳 is "spread" or "transmission".

But with the compound translation we'd have a "teaching outside supplementary biographies."

I don't know what a supplementary biography is exactly, but it seems to be a very specific Chinese term. This doesn't have to be the meaning here, but it's something to look into.

It stands in opposition to 本傳, the main biography - Something to keep an eye out for.

ChatGPT says:

"A supplementary biography is usually a collection of anecdotes, unusual events, or personal characteristics that the main biography might not cover. This type of text fills in the gaps, adding depth or color to a historical figure’s life story by sharing unofficial tales, lesser-known events, or personal details.

In some literary traditions, supplementary biographies offer a more intimate or less formal look at historical figures, providing insights into their personalities or quirks that might not be documented in official records. This approach makes these texts valuable for readers who want a richer, more complete understanding of the subject beyond the official narrative."

So it's like saying the teaching isn't even in the books that the real fanbois read where they get into Harry Potter's hair gel choices. So no matter how deep you dig, you won't find it.

Or, and now I'm being controversial, it could mean "The teaching is in the main biography (the Zen records), right in your face. The people who go out there into the weeds and comb the sutras for breadcrumbs have lost the plot."

Edit (This is like my fifth edit of the post by now, dang rabbit holes. Can't we just smoke out those rabbits?):

I found this in the Book of Serenity Case 92:

The teacher said, "Water returns to the great sea, and the waves settle quietly. Clouds reach the distant Cangwu Mountains, where the atmosphere is serene. Therefore, it is said, 'Scold all you like; banter and spit at each other all you like; splash water all you like.' This reflects Yunmen’s state of mind after rolling up his teachings. He finds excess superficiality burdensome. The character for 'superficial' (華) has two meanings here: first, it means to abandon superficiality and focus on substance; second, it means to disdain excessive superficiality. Upon returning, where is one’s true livelihood?

The first line is from the Main Biography of Baocang's teachings, while the second is from Yunmen’s words. Where are you searching? If you pause the loom and think for a moment, one thought spans ten thousand years. Even if your axe handle wears out from use, it is still slow movement, sluggish progress.

The previous verse on Yan Yang's encounter with Zhaozhou references the story of the woodcutter with the worn axe handle in the Main Biography. The previous verse on Xuefeng’s last words also has the Main Biography of Fei Changfang, where he encounters Master Hu Gong, who sold medicine at a fixed price. Hu Gong would hang a jar in a tree and leap into it. Changfang saw this from a building, recognizing him as no ordinary person. Hu Gong then said, "Clear the area, take the medicine, and do not thank me." After a long time, seeing Changfang’s steadfast faith, Hu Gong said to him, "Come at dusk when no one is around." Following Hu Gong’s instructions, Changfang jumped into the jar and found himself in a multi-storied building with colorful doors and many attendants around.

The first line eulogizes Baocang’s teachings, and the second praises Yunmen’s words. The next two lines: the first line praises clarity, and the second praises simplicity. Even though the words are straightforward, how many can truly realize them? Yunmen embraced the changes and revealed a living path: the cold fish lies on the bottom, not taking the bait. This refers to the boat on a quiet, cold night when fish do not feed. The term “golden waves and cassia shadows” describes the clear reflection of the moon on the boat. “Golden waves and cassia shadows” is another name for the moon.

Tiantong said, "The pure light blinds one’s eyes, like losing one’s home." Zhaozhou said, "The old monk is not in the realm of clarity." Thus, when the interest wanes, he returns his boat. Now tell me, where does one go? Deep into the night, he does not stay in the reed bay but emerges between the middle and both ends.

The word "Main Biography" is used in reference to primary sources. It implicitly carries the connotation of its counterpoint, the "supplemental biography". ChatGPT puts it thus when referring to this passage:

"The use of the term Main Biography highlights the authoritative, primary accounts of certain figures or teachings, distinguishing them from supplementary interpretations or anecdotes."

So, if we think of 教外別傳 in this way, it suggests that the “teaching outside” refers to the direct, essential record within primary sources, not supplemented or obscured by secondary interpretations or intellectual commentary.

TLDR: So with this as an argument I propose the first statement of Zen to be rewritten in the sidebar to be: "A direct teaching outside interpretations or anecdotal accounts"

Second option: "A teaching in primary records that bypasses the need for secondary, interpretive accounts"

This makes a very strong case for "Buddhism is not Zen". Texts are direct primary sources if they come from an enlightened person, and they're anecdotal or interpretations if they don't.

First of the Four Statements

教外別傳..... A separate transmission beyond doctrines.

We study Zen in order to understand what Zen tradition is all about... what kept it going for 1,000 years, until their communal land was confiscated?

Like a recipie, it's not about the words. This "transmission" is discussed in the texts, but it is not contained in the texts. Just like a recipie, it's texts are just instruction about the thing, the texts aren't the thing itself.

Anti-intellectualism in New Age Buddhism

The problem that New Age Buddhism (focusing on awakening, meditation, non-attachment, and so on) encounters is that it can't articulate it's catechism in contrast with Zen or 8f path Buddhism because the foundation of New Age Buddhism is anti-intellectual, they don't read and write well, and dismiss learning generally as at best a distraction, and at worst a delusion.

After all, if the transmission is beyond learning doctrines, then learning is not the solution, right? "Mind is not the Buddha, knowledge is not the way" says to these anti-intellectuals: learning is the wrong way.

Which is convienent, because knowledge is one of the most famous causes of Great Doubt. And even a little doubt is dangerous for new agers of all kinds.

Spontaneous Manifestation

The idea of a great chef is that they create new tastes. The traditional way is to go to chef school and learn how to do that, but the real geniuses can skip that step and go right to innovation. That's the inspiration behind new age religions. And people see Zen Masters doing that and mistake Zen for a new ager type situation.

A separate transmission beyond doctrines doesn't mean "make stuff up though". Which is why Zen has all these... checkpoints. Like the five lay precepts. Like public interview.

Because it turns out you aren't an innovative chef because you think so. You are an innovative chef because people want to buy what you are cooking up.

Why people buy Zen

Anybody can make sense to one other person. But how do Zen Masters make sense to everybody? After all, consider what happens in the historical records when people antagonistic to Zen run into a Zen Master.

People get convinced by Zen.

It's a great lesson in "beyond doctrine", because it's not doctrine that convinces people. And it's not personality because people who do not want to be convinced get schooled.

Which brings us to the same place we started: A recipie isn't about the directions, it's about producing the taste people want to eat.

But you can't understand what good food is all about unless you learn some recipes first.

Zen study is incredibly personal.

From the lay precepts, to visiting Zen Masters in person or virtually through their books, to holding regular no-holds-barred Q&A sessions, to exchanging written correspondence from persons expressing their deepest anxieties, frustrations, and confusion--it's all personal.

Addressing my mental health challenges, dysfunctional relationships, and the patterns of fucked-up stuff I've seen and done demands a candor and sincerity that Zen Masters encourage and display.

From Mingben's "Don't emulate the easygoingness of Zen Masters" to Huike's "Show me your sin", they're always exhorting us not to accept an imitation of who we think we should be for reality.

If you need any more examples, ask away, but Mingben's autobiography should suffice to show everyone that Zen Masters weren't interested in cultivating and curating a false version of themselves and their history to display to the world.

It can be frustrating sometimes when people show up only to engage in the same sort of escapism which I myself had indulged in after discovering the intellectual and moral shallowness of my religious upbringing and on top of that trying to convince other people who are struggling to do the same.

On a personal level, all the days I spent eating up every word of Watts in books or on YouTube didn't give me an ounce of personal integrity; same with the hours spent sitting in uncomfortable positions in a church that branded itself with the name "Zen" and dressed itself up in funny robes.

Much like as Mingben details in his autobiography, I had fabricated "enlightenments" and "realizations" out of abnormal experiences.

I don't think any of us can convince the people who want to brigade this forum and harass users simply for wanting to talk about Wumen or Wansong or Huangbo to stop any more than we can convince those who believe Trump is anointed by God to.

So long as we show how sincerely personal Zen study is for us, how could anything people who can't be sincerely personal stand up to that?

We find within the Transmission of the Lamp that it says,

僧問。第六第七識及第八識畢竟無體。

A monk asked, “The sixth, seventh, and eighth consciousnesses ultimately have no inherent substance. How do they come to be known as transformations?”

云何得名轉。第八為大圓鏡智。師有偈曰。

The master said, "The eighth consciousness becomes the wisdom of the Great Perfect Mirror." They then recited a verse:

七生依一滅  一滅持七生

Seven arise based on one cessation. One cessation sustains the arising of the seven.

一滅滅亦滅  六七永無遷

When that one ceases, it too is extinguished. The sixth and seventh will never again move or change.

In the Blue Cliff Record a certain phrase appears, which is "seven penetrations, eight holes", a while ago we were examining the phrase and showing that it may be associated with the eight consciousness model, along with similar phrases which appear in approximately 30/100 of the cases in the text (which, mind you, also explicitly states that the eight consciousnesses transforming into the four wisdoms is Buddha).

We know from the recent posts that explored from the records the repetition that the eighth consciousness is the great mirror wisdom, etc. Well, Yuanwu in the BCR introduces the Mind Mirror in Case 5, and then in Case 6 we come across our first instance of that 七穿八穴 phrase where it states:

去却一(七穿八穴。向什麼處去。放過一着)

Eliminate the one (Seven penetrations and eight holes. Where does it go? Letting go of one move)

拈得七(拈不出。却不放過)

Grasp the seven (If you can't grasp it, do not let go)

上下四維無等匹(何似生。上是天下是地。東南西北與四維。有什麼等匹。爭奈拄杖在我手裏)

There is no match for the four dimensions above and below (What is life like? Above is heaven, below is earth. East, south, west, north, and the four dimensions. What can compare? However, the staff is in my hand)

徐行踏斷流水聲(莫問脚跟下。難為體究。打入葛藤窟裏。去了也)

Walking slowly, cutting off the sound of flowing water (Do not ask about what's beneath your feet. It's difficult to investigate. You are thrown into the vine cave. Gone)

In the Five Lamps it says 師曰。脚跟下七穿八穴。(beneath one's heels, seven penetrations, eight holes).

Case 78 of the BCR says 也須七穿八穴始得 ("It is also necessary to go through seven penetrations and eight holes to obtain it"). If interested, this phrase was part 1 and part 2 of the Blue Cliff Record investigation series, feel free to catch up (if you feel you have to catch up).

It's funny that Yuanwu's name was "Buddha Fruit", but when a fruit is unripe it is often green, which is why in the 1600's this association of "newbies" and green was established, where to this day the inexperienced are considered green.

My last post on the eight consciousnesses contained this quote: "The nature of the Tathāgata storehouse is the eighth consciousness, the ālaya consciousness, which contains the seeds of all good and evil. If one awakens to it, they become a sage; if one is deluded, they remain an ordinary being. All sentient beings possess this jewel. However, due to the deep entanglement of causes and conditions since beginningless time, it cannot manifest." ...If one awakens to the eighth consciousness they become a sage. But nothing is apart from the eighth consciousness?

Yuanwu is the Buddha Fruit who presents his teaching by compiling and expanding the Odes to a Hundred Standards into the masterful Blue Cliff Record. Hm, "If one awakens to it, they become a sage; if one is deluded, they remain an ordinary being." I wonder what a green sage can do? Some new agers may chime in here that Venus is also associated with green, and Venus is love, and that the sun in its alchemical element is considered the green lion, providing the life force for everything green, the grasses and the trees. So perhaps green sages are loveable even in their silly mistakes. The difference between a master and a novice can be ten thousand mistakes, don't forget.

Anyway, how does one trump one no? Two noes? I came across this koan in 天隱和尚語錄 The Recorded Sayings of Chan Master Tianyin which I'll end the post with:

慧法主講《八識規矩》，師問云：「聞汝精八識義，是否？」主云：「是。」師云：「六祖大師道：『大圓鏡智性清淨，平等性智心無病，妙觀察智見非功，成所作智同圓鏡。五八六七果因轉，但轉其名無寔性。若於轉處不留情，繁興永處那伽定。』只如大圓鏡，唯在第八識上顯？是總顯？」主云：「第八識顯。」師云：「即今除卻你眼、耳、鼻、舌、身、意六識，大圓鏡在什麼處轉？」主擬開口，師搖手云：「不是！不是！」主無語。

Dharma Master Hui was lecturing on the "Regulations of the Eight Consciousnesses."

Another Master asked, “I have heard that you are well-versed in the meaning of the eight consciousnesses; is that true?”

Hui replied, “Yes.”

The Master continued, “The Sixth Patriarch said: ‘The Wisdom of the Great Round Mirror is pure in nature; the Wisdom of Equality has a mind without affliction; the Wisdom of Subtle Observation sees without attachment; the Wisdom of Accomplishment is like a perfect mirror. The five, eight, six, and seven consciousnesses transform the fruits and causes, but they only change their names, lacking inherent nature. If there is no clinging in the place of transformation, then you will abide forever in the Samadhi of the Nāga King.’

“Now, regarding the Great Round Mirror, does it manifest solely in the eighth consciousness, or is it a universal manifestation?”

Hui replied, “It manifests in the eighth consciousness.”

The Master asked, “If we were to exclude your six consciousnesses of eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind, where does the Great Round Mirror turn?”

Hui began to speak, but the Master waved his hand and said, “No! No!”

Hui was left speechless.

Hui was cut at the eighth consciousness. (Discuss in the comments if you want!)

In the last post we were discussing in the comments about how the eight consciousness teaching was too intimidating, so for example in Human and Heavenly Eyes a 9th consciousness was added (the pure consciousness), to make it more satiable to enter true understanding of the 8th consciousness. May be worth exploring.

Also I'd be curious where else this "no! no! (bu shi bu shi)" may have taken place to see if he was doing a callback referencing some other teaching dialogue.

Hi, hello, it's the first time for me on this sub and i'm a little overwhelmed after reading a few posts. I am relatively new to zen and i don't have a lot to draw upon when it comes to sources. I talked to a friend two years ago now and i read Kill Your Self: life after ego by Berry Graham, now quite a while ago. That's it. And i need more; now i could go and buy books but i have some ADHD related struggles with reading so that can only go so far for me (by which i mean pretty little far). I mostly need contact with others i think, and to be able to ask questions and have dialogues and confrontations. The book i mentioned has a bit on this topic and it says basically, to my understanding, that practicing on your own can lead to some damaging distrortions of the practice. I can see how that might be happening already in my case. It doesn't, however, say anything on how to look for a teacher and companions. Are there any communities that you can recommend? Or ways to find them? Do you agree that practicing on your own is a bad idea, and to what degree do you agree? Thanks for any insight.

In general, there are three different types of Zen texts: recorded conversations, books of instruction which use records of conversation as their basis, and instructional texts written in poetry and prose. In all of those texts Zen Masters are asking questions to you, responding to questions from either a preceptor or another Zen Master, or explaining how such-and-such religious doctrine isn't Zen.

Sure, there's a text like Mr. Illusory Abode's Family Instructions which stands outside of the threefold classification in terms of genre but it does the same thing all Zen texts force people to do:

#REFLECT & ENGAGE

Which is the real reason why D*genists and New Agerz in particular and most people in general who come to this forum steer clear of Zen texts and conversations about them. For them, their principal concern is about suppressing self-reflection in hypnotic trance states and deferring "engagement" with questions to church-provided catechism and authorities.

It's also why Zen has so much more in common with the public-square philosophy of the Greeks than with anything religion has produced. For example,

• Does a dog have the nature of sentient awareness?

• Without referring to a thing by its name, how will you communicate it's essence to someone?

• What does it mean for something to be 'black', 'white', 'straight', or 'crooked'? How can we even talk about these sorts of properties?

• What is the nature of 'good' and 'bad'?

...are all questions that Zen Masters tackle explicitly in their records without recourse to religious faith and which they demand YOU DO ALSO.

Your reflection on the questions and engagement with them has to be immediate and without fear, at least that's what Wumen says, and he's the boss around these parts.

It's not that they don't field concerns from people with deeply held religious convictions, but they handle those concerns by shattering the assumptions at their core and forcing their partner to REFLECT & ENGAGE. The Second Patriarch of Zen was asked by his soon-to-be successor, Sengcan,

###"I am diseased: I implore you to cleanse me of my sin”

The 2P replied,

###“Bring me your sin and I will cleanse you of it."

###3P thought for awhile; then said, “I cannot get at it”

###2P replied, “Then I have cleansed you of it”

What Sengcan did or failed to do IS NOT A ZEN CONCERN, in contrast, churches demand submission through preying on or fabricating guilt through inventing an imaginary sickness called "Sin". From the point of view of Dgenists and New Agerz, it's a strategic choice to censor and misrepresent Zen texts and harass those who choose to do something as simple as writing about their experience of reflecting and engaging with a Zen text:

#####They hate some part of themselves which they believe to be diseased/stained/ego-ridden and want to escape from themselves by trance-states and reflection-avoidance.

That doesn't mean any of us have to tolerate that behavior on this forum.

A really interesting thing about social media is that if people who know about something don't post it, then social media pretends that stuff doesn't exist.

For example, I'll say some stuff in this thread that nobody can confirm or deny based on social media. To confirm or deny it, you'd have to go to primary sources which only recently have become available online.

What is Buddhism?

Buddhism is a set of religions based on following the 8f path. Like Christians follow the 10 Commandments, Buddhists follow the 8f path because they have faith that they will be rewarded for their obedience and hard work over time.

Buddhists and Christians believe hard work makes you capable of wisdom and goodness.

What is Zen?

Zen is the mind school of sudden enlightenment. Zen's core elements are (a) public interview (which is what koans are based on, this is obvious after spending 10 minutes with any Zen text: www.reddit.com/r/zen/wiki/getstarted) and (b) The Four Statements, which are found throughout Zen teachings both explicitly and implicitly, without being contradicted anywhere.

There is no reward for hard work over time in Zen. In fact, Zen Masters teach non-attainment, which means "no reward". Zen Masters become Zen Masters by proving continuously in public interviews that they aren't dependent on doctrine or fixed ideas about anything. Zen has a long history of rejecting meditation: www.reddit.com/r/zen/wiki/notmeditation

Zen Masters do not believe in goodness or wisdom. Zen has more in common with modern science than Buddhism or Christianity. Zen Masters argue in a way that Buddhists and Christians do not, because Zen, like Science, is interested in testing rather than believing.

Zen and Buddhism don't have meditation

Meditation religions, like Zazen and Vipassana, are "new age". These religions do not have any roots in the historical record. Zazen is not part of Soto Zen, although Zazen monks will call themselves Soto Zen like Mormons call themselves Christians. Religions that see meditation as the core practice did not come from India and did not pass into China. Lots of people engage in "sitting quietly and thinking about things", but this is not how meditation religions define their practice.

The meditation religions are engaging in a kind of prayer that is the focal point of their faith. These religions are also "new age" because they don't have well developed catechisms. If you go to the website of any meditation religion, you won't find a statement about what they believe. That's a big red flag for "new age", as opposed to more established and traditional religions like Christianity and Buddhism. Here are examples of Buddhists saying what they believe: www.reddit.com//r/zen/wiki/buddhism

Why is Buddhism nothing more than Zen's shadow?

Buddhas are people who are not chained by doctrine. The easy way to tell if somebody is chained by doctrine is to ask them questions in public. Buddha was asked questions in public, but there are no historical records of Buddha's teaching. The sutras are less historically accurate and authentic than the Christian Bible.

Zen Masters argue that without doctrine, there is only one way to understand the teaching of Buddha: through personal direct sudden enlightenment. People who are enlightened can teach any time, any where, as Buddha did, and do not depend on merely repeating the doctrine of their faith.

People who follow others are really just following doctrine. Zen Masters are Buddhas, Zen Masters don't follow Buddhas. Buddhists are followers of a single Zen Master, who's teachings were misinterpreted as doctrine.

Thus Buddhism is the shadow of Zen. Flat, colorless, without life.

They do not know that, if they put a stop to conceptual thought and forget their anxiety, the Buddha will appear before them, for this Mind is the Buddha.

You can always tell a new age or because they claim they have a secret recipe.

People who go to church always defer to the church's teaching, the Church's rules, and the church's recipes.

New agers make it up. If you ask what book it came from they have nothing. If you ask who else might be able to present their argument? Nobody ever has and nobody ever will.

The new age movement generally is everybody agreeing not to call anybody els's. BS what it is: bs.

Mind is Buddha and ordinary mind is the way are teachings that make it very clear that there isn't any special secret symbolism there isn't any hidden knowledge. There isn't any teaching in Zen that you can't pick up a book and understand right away.

Go ahead and try it:

www.reddit.com/r/zen/wiki/getstarted

The following is from 證道歌註 (Click for source) which is a Commentary on the Song of Enlightenment, the Song of Enlightenment was written by Yongjia Xuanju, while this commentary was written by Chinul (the monk who is crediting with bringing Chan from China to Korea).

In this commentary it states:

摩尼珠人不識。如來藏裡親收得。

梵語摩尼珠。此云無垢光。即喻一真之性也。如來藏性。即第八識。含藏識。能生一切善惡種子。悟之則聖。迷之則凡。而一切眾生。具此一珠。良由無始劫來。因緣雜[1]深。故不能現。而如來。以性空智。身含十方。徧虗空界。而此珠瑩然。如淨瑠璃內含寶月。雖然如此。諸世間人。各有一珠。問諸人。祇今在什麼處。

The jewel of mani is unknown to people, but it is personally kept within the Tathāgata's storehouse.

Mani is a Sanskrit word, translated as 'spotless light.' It symbolizes the nature of the one true reality. The nature of the Tathāgata storehouse is the eighth consciousness, the ālaya consciousness, which contains the seeds of all good and evil. If one awakens to it, they become a sage; if one is deluded, they remain an ordinary being. All sentient beings possess this jewel. However, due to the deep entanglement of causes and conditions since beginningless time, it cannot manifest.

The Tathāgata, with the wisdom of emptiness, embodies the ten directions, pervading the empty space of the universe. This jewel is bright and clear, like a pure crystal containing the luminous moon within. Despite this, people of the world each have this jewel. If you ask them, 'Where is it right now?' what would they say?

The eighth consciousness is the Dharkamaya, is the mani pearl, is the Buddha Nature, is the Mind is Buddha. However, as the BCR stated, to be Buddha one must have transformed the eight consciousnesses into the four wisdoms, which is the teaching essential to the four statements of Zen.

Zongmi has a Q&A in a work where it is asked: "All sentient beings are unable to attain liberation because of the workings of the eight consciousnesses. What are these eight consciousnesses?" The answer provided is:

These eight consciousnesses arise from inherent causes and conditions. Dependent on present conditions, they arise and create new causes that lead to future results. To eliminate them and stop their arising, one must observe the source of the eye consciousness. Where does it come from? Does it come from form, the eye itself, or the mind? If it comes from the mind, why can’t a blind person, who has a mind, generate eye consciousness? If it comes from the eye, why can’t a dead person, who still has eyes, distinguish forms? If it comes from form, form is inanimate and lacks awareness. By examining these factors, one comes to realize that when the eye perceives a form, the eye, form, and consciousness are all empty in nature. When these three are realized as empty, no differentiation arises. When no differentiation arises, the mind consciousness also has nothing to differentiate. The seventh consciousness has nothing to grasp, and the eighth consciousness accumulates no new seeds of defilement. Without seeds, one no longer clings to saṃsāra, and the mind abides in quiescence and remains eternally unmoved by birth and death.

Huineng's verse about the eight consciousnesses was in response to a monk asking for clarification on the three bodies, Huineng explains that without the dharma body (which has the qualities of the fourfold wisdom), they are prajnas with no bodies. This is mapped on Vairocana in the center of the four elements, etc. Formlessness and form.

Zongmi's text reads:

Question: How do the Buddha's three bodies (trikāya) arise?

Answer: The three bodies of the Buddha arise from the transformation of the eight consciousnesses into four wisdoms. From these four wisdoms, the three bodies are formed, representing the transition from cause to effect, hence the distinction of the three bodies.

Question: How do you know this to be the case?

Answer: The first five consciousnesses—eye, ear, nose, tongue, and body—transform into the Wisdom of Marvelous Observation (妙觀察智). The sixth consciousness (mind consciousness) transforms into the Wisdom of Accomplishing Activities (成所作智). The seventh consciousness (manas) transforms into the Wisdom of Equality (平等性智). The eighth consciousness (ālaya-vijñāna) transforms into the Great Mirror Wisdom (大圓鏡智).

Question: What is the reason for making this distinction between these four wisdoms?

Answer: The first five consciousnesses, also referred to as the five sense faculties (五根), illuminate and make contact with external objects without being stained by delusion. This is why they are considered the Wisdom of Marvelous Observation. The sixth consciousness, also called the mind faculty (意根), is the gateway to wisdom and requires diligent awareness. Through awareness, it becomes purified and aligns with reality. By observing both the conventional and ultimate truths, it perfects the wisdom of discrimination. The transformation of the mind into wisdom leads to clear insight without attachment to differentiation. This is called the Wisdom of Accomplishing Activities. The seventh consciousness (末那識), or manas, is devoid of attachment and thus free from hatred and love. Because there is no attachment or aversion, all phenomena are equal, which is why it is referred to as the Wisdom of Equality (平等性智). The eighth consciousness (阿賴耶識), or ālaya-vijñāna, is empty in nature. Within this storehouse consciousness, all mixed seeds of defilement are completely pure. It is likened to a clear mirror suspended in space, reflecting all forms without discrimination. This mirror does not have thoughts like, “I can reflect images.” The images do not assert, “I arise from the mirror.” In this relationship, there is neither a subject (the mirror) nor an object (the images). Therefore, this wisdom is called the Great Mirror Wisdom (大圓鏡智).

Question: Given the explanation of the four wisdoms, how do the three bodies arise?

Answer: The Great Mirror Wisdom serves as the Dharmakāya (法身). The Wisdom of Equality serves as the Saṃbhogakāya (報身). The Wisdom of Accomplishing Activities and the Wisdom of Marvelous Observation together serve as the Nirmāṇakāya (化身).

As Huineng is said to have said,

the pure dharmakaya is your [essential] nature; the perfect sambhogakaya is your wisdom; and the myriad nirmanakayas are your actions[...]

And,

The three bodies are inherent in our essence of mind,

By development of which the four prajnas are manifested.

Thus, without shutting your eyes and ears to keep away from the external world

You may reach buddhahood directly.

Now that I have made this plain to you

Believe it firmly, and you will be free from delusions forever.

Follow not those who seek enlightenment from without;

These people talk about bodhi all the time [but they never find it].

When asked for more information on the Four Prajnas (Four Wisdoms), Huineng replied:

If you understand the three bodies, you should understand the four prajnas as well; so your question is unnecessary. If you deal with the four prajnas apart from the three bodies, there will be prajnas without bodies, in which case they would not be prajnas.

[...]

The mirrorlike wisdom is pure by nature.

The equality wisdom frees the mind from impediments.

The all-discerning wisdom sees things intuitively without going through the process of reasoning.

The all-performing wisdom has the same characteristics as the mirror-like wisdom.

Mind is Buddha is referring to this, as per Huineng, the BCR, the writings of Yuanwu, Dahui, Bhaizang, Haihai, etc.

The monk in the above scenario understood, became enlightened and responded with a verse to Huineng.

Far from not being Buddhism, this aspect of Buddhism is almost essential to begin approaching much of the Zen master's texts in sincerity. People who claim to be studying Zen and get offended by these materials need to take a good hard look in the mirror.

If they know how to polish it, that is. Likely covered in filth and weighed down in dust.

Zen's Sudden Enlightenment... Right out of the Four Statements of Zen

見性成佛.....Becoming a Buddha by Seeing Nature

This idea of "one and done" in Zen is not found in Buddhism or Christianity.

Huangbo infamously says you must enter as sudden as a knife thrust... but this is less a doctrine than an observation.

Once you see something in reality the first time, it is seared into your mind. Once you taste something new, you know it is new instantly.

Buddhism and Christianity: Practicing to get into heaven

Buddhism is the religion of the 8FP just like Christianity is the religion of the 10 Commandments. Both religions promise their followers heaven as a return for obedience. Neither religion has produced any tangible result from this faith.

Most notably, both Christianity and Buddhism fail to produce "good" people, or even happy people. Why is this? The simple answer is that obedience doesn't even satisfy children... why would anyone want to be treated as a child by a church that promises a reward nobody ever earns?

Yet meditation and prayer consistently fail to produce results.

Gradually you just get worse

The basis of the gradual doctrine is to keep people trying to achieve something, all while making the goal posts so ridiculous that in the end only a supernatural being could win the prize. This helps people - gambler's fallacy style - keep trying to get somewhere and ending up investing in disappointment. No wonder Buddhist and Christian leaders struggle to embody the virtues of their religions.

What do Zen Masters say? You are fine as you are. This is a tough pill to swallow for people who have been taught to believe that more work = more rewards. It's an even tougher pill to swallow for people who have been taught that effort = virtue.

Yet Zen Masters are famous for a sudden enlightenment after which they declare: I DO NOT GIVE A @#$#.

How is that supernatural or based on effort?

brickbat noun brick·​bat ˈbrik-ˌbat

1: a fragment of a hard material (such as a brick) especially one used as a missile

2: an uncomplimentary remark

(Merriam-Webster dictionary)

wrrd: There it is, folks. Zen insults and ssssick burrrrrrrns are a foundation of Zen study.

"A man of determination will unflinchingly push his way straight forward, regardless of all dangers."

wrrd: I'd also call this desperation. One ought to be prepared to die, by which I mean launch into that over which there is no control or certainty. The Great Doubt, red hot iron ball, et al. IMO this is not "one and done" except for the skill learned. Fall off bicycle, get back on, etc. Some folks use sticks in spokes. Opportunity for daily enlightenment abound. Hint: preferences.

"Then even the eight-armed Nata cannot hinder him."

"Even the four sevens of the West and the two threes of the East would beg for their lives."

wrrd: References to Buddhist sutras, per Wikipedia

Source: academia.edu: A Study and Translation of the Gaganagañjaparipṛcchā

Nata (नत) refers to “low” (as opposed to Unnata—‘high’), according to the Gaganagañjaparipṛcchā: the eighth chapter of the Mahāsaṃnipāta (a collection of Mahāyāna Buddhist Sūtras).—Accordingly, “How then, son of good family, the Bodhisattva, having accumulated immeasurable merits, nourishes all living beings? Son of good family, [...] (7) his thoughts are like an earth since there is no high or low (nata-unnata) in his mind; (8) he is free from thoughts by pure morality; (9) his thought is liberated and the gate is free from hindrance by accomplishing all sacrifices; (10) he has perfected memory and eloquence by investigating the dharma; (11) he depends on the knowledge of supernatural powers by going to immeasurable Buddha-fields”.

wrrd: Big promises of protection. MLM vibes but that's just me? "Just do it for the doing's sake, I say.

"If one has no determination, then it will be like catching a glimpse of a horse galloping past the window: in the twinkling of an eye it will be gone."

wrrd: From the corner of my eye, I spy, a rip in the screen, through which All might be seen. Extinguished in a flash, like a candle being blown out. (See Case 28)

Source: Excerpts from Mumon's Preface

wrrd: Just use the dang bats to knock down your own barrier. What good is shocking your classmate going to do you?

Link to previous Excerpt

##Updates

Recently entered territory with this translation where the added punctuation in the Chinese digitized text noticeably interfered with both Dufficy's and ChadGPT's ability to produce an accurate translation.

For those interested, here is a background on Chinese adoption of Western punctuation. Among other things, I learned that the double-chevrons do not denote a quotation but the title of a text. What the adoption of Western punctuation means for Mingben's Household Instructions specifically, and digitized Zen texts on sites like CBETA in general, is that somebody or somebodies in the 20th or 21st century made punctuation decisions without any documentation of the changes made, their justification, or alternate readings in ambiguous situations.

Anybody who has taken a course on manuscript history of ancient texts in the Western world, knows how much the lack of punctuation (or even spaces between letters) can impact how a text gets transmitted in a world where copying was done by hand and often under the auspices of churches with specific agendas.

The past two centuries have seen increasing efforts to bring a critical eye towards the translations and manuscript changes of texts from Western antiquity and careful documentation by secularly minded scholars of these changes and any additions of their own they included for ease of reading.

Since there was effectively zero scholarship on Zen texts in the 20th century, even among those making a career out of translating them, there wasn't any incentive for anyone to acknowledge issues with the edition of the text they were working from much less disclose any personal religious affiliations with organizations who had a vested interest in promoting a religious narrative about the Zen tradition which didn't stand up to facts. Similar to the Catholic handling of Greek Philosophical texts in the Middle Ages, Dogenists with no experience engaging in Zen study have selectively translated, heavily redacted, and fraudulently altered the contents of Zen records and books of instruction to prop up the Obscurantism which their religion leans on more heavily than most.

I will preserve the interpolated punctuation for now since getting a scan of the manuscripts out there seems out of the question for now.

##Chinese

狼藉殆盡，審如是奇特建立，要且於幻法了無加損。老雲門謂‘當時若見，一棒打殺，貴圖天下太平’。雖則增金以黃，其柰又添一重幻翳當時四十九年，三百餘會，彼以幻問，此以幻答，文彩熾盛，音響沸騰。其幻頓幻漸，幻偏幻圓，且置之勿論，末上以幻手拈幻花，謂‘吾有正法眼藏，涅槃妙心’，直得老飲光擘破幻顏，兩肩負荷，自爾一人，傳虛萬人，傳實幻幻，相因授受不已。

##Translation

Even though everything was in almost complete disorder, in examining his strange pronouncement, the fact of the matter is that it neither added to nor subtracted from illusory modes of understanding. Old Yunmen said, "If I had seen him then, I would have knocked him dead with a single strike of my staff with the express intent of bringing peace and tranquility to the whole world." [Did not translate the bolded section yet.] Over the course of forty-nine years and more than three-hundred gatherings, The Buddha was asked about illusory problems and, in reply, conjured solutions full of ornate expressions and with an impassioned voice. As for his conjured teachings of sudden enlightenment, a gradual enlightenment, a partial truth, and a complete truth, set them aside for the time being and do not discuss them. Finally, as a result of conjuring his hand to pluck the illusory flower he said, "I possess the Treasury of the True Eye's Mode of Understanding, the wondrous mind of Nirvana..." for it was old Kasyapa alone who penetrated through by conjuring a smile and bearing the burden on his own. Since then, it has been the case that "One person passes on a fabrication while countless pass it off as truth"^1 thereby endlessly trading illusion for illusion.

1 Once the punctuation is removed from 「一人，傳虛萬人，傳實」we get 「一人傳虛萬人傳實」a Chinese idiom from the Han Dynasty and a response Linji gave to the question of "What is there to discuss in front of the Duozi Tower^2?" a Dongchan Qina gave to the question "What is your family style?". It also appears in Wansong's commentary in the Book of Serenity.

2 This is the Chinese name for a Tower/Stupa/Pagoda in India.. In the Liandeng Huiyao 《联灯会要》edition of the Flower Raising case, the exchange between Kasyapa and Zen Master Buddha took place in front of the Duozi Stupa. Can we get a translation of this version of the case?

How do you even know any of it exists without the teachings?

Is it just focus or just like a grounded calmness?

       What book does that come from?

Simplest test ever. 100% effective on fail.

Wumen's Checkpoint - Pass

Venerable Zhaozhou: because a monk asked, "Is the puppy also Buddha Nature or not?" Zhou said, "Not."

Wumen (Gateless) Says: To meet Zen, you must pass through the founders’ checkpoint. For the wonderful awakening you exhaust the road of the heart-mind to the finish. If you do not pass through the ancestor’s checkpoint, if you do not finish the road of the heart-mind, depletion indeed follows like a tree spirit attached to the grass.

     WUMEN PASSES THE BOOK REPORT TEST

Wansong, a real Caodong Master - Pass

Commentary: Prajnatara once instructed Bodhidharma, our great

teacher, "Sixty-seven years after my death you will go to China to present the medicine of the great teaching, showing it directly to those of excellent faculties; be careful not to go too fast and wither under the sun. And when you get there, don't stay in the South--there they only like fabricated merit and don't see the inner reality of buddhahood, so even if you go there, you shouldn't stay too long."

      WANSONG PASSES THE BOOK REPORT TEST

Zen Masters read books

It's not a complicated test, but in it's very simplicity is the key to understanding how cults work (fraud and coercion) and how mental health problems stymie critical thinking and self reflection: BEWK SAYS WHAT?

Cults are all about fraud and using fraud to force people to conform.

Mental health problems are all about making it difficult to take in reality and assess it accurately.

Book reports and the inability to book report cuts right to the heart of both groups. The majority of Western Buddhism, Zazen prayer-meditation, and New Ager "awakening" Matrix Pill Drinkers are in one or both categories.

It's not rZen's job to fix that. We read books so we can talk about teachings so we can apply them in reality.

Reality is paramount.

Aside from the fact that a recent post discussing this question featured a bunch of people who block half of rZen because they're afraid of living people:

why Zen is alive

When you can quote a Zen book and every Buddhist and Zazen worshipper starts screaming about how books aren't real?

When you can mention the title of a Zen book and new agers begin boiling over on the stove of their own fantasy attainment?

This is Living Words.

Yuanwu: Study the living word of Zen, not the dead word. When you

attain understanding of the living word, you never forget it. When you attain understanding of the dead word, you can’t even save yourself.

why religion is dead?

When you can't speak up in public because you're afraid of criticism, like new agers and Zazen prayer-meditatipn people are?

That's being dead inside. That's having no heart or soul or passion.

When you are so sick that you can't answer questions yourself and yet you refuse to go to an answer doctor? That's somebody who has given up on living their own life.

When there's dozens of social media communities that are don't even dare to mention the names of the Zen Masters they claim they don't care about?

Those people have been killed by their own fear.

Thats evidence that religion is dead.

Dead is unable to put to a fight, can't face facts, and is utterly defeated by a high school English class book report.

We all know this. This isn't news.

Yuanwu: The words of buddhas and Zen masters are just tools, means of

gaining access to truth. Once you are clearly enlightened and experi¬ ence truth, all the teachings are within you.

People who don't have anything inside them don't have anything to say when questioned.

Not having anything inside of you is dead.

the books are ALIVE

It's hilarious to me that people would call this forum a book club.

Nobody's afraid of book clubs.

If you look at all the names in this forum that the religious community is afraid to discuss?

If you look at all the religious people who block us, all the forums that remove our comments, all the people who condemn us without being able to quote us?

Clearly, this is a living words club.