Some time ago I saw a post in vcjc where they asked if anyone else gets dreams that they eat non vegan things, and when they wake up they feel horrible about themselves, because they kinda didn't do anything to stop themselves and it was for a dumb reason. As if they like stopped caring in their dream. I've had this before, although not for a while, and I hate it so much.

Last night I had a nightmare like this, except with antinatalism. And the most terrifying fucking part is that it felt so realistic, because a lot of details matched with real life. In the dream, I found out I was pregnant and I had no idea for several weeks (possibly months even), but I decided not to have an abortion, I think because happy chemicals made me not want to. I was being selfish, and wasn't thinking of how they would inherit a dying planet or anything, I just wanted to bask in my oxytocin excitement or whatever. I didn't understand how it happened, because I had a copper IUD (I do in real life), I didn't notice any of the typical signs, and I took the at home pregnancy tests. But I wasn't mad or upset. I accepted my fate, and I was even excited. And if this wasn't terrifying on its own, when it came time for me to give birth, I was going to have a c section, but I wasn't reacting to anesthesia. I wasn't going under. But anyway, now that I'm awake, I feel absolutely awful about this dream, and now I have an irrational fear that I could have a baby without knowing I was pregnant. I really wish I could erase my memory of this nightmare 😭

Funnily enough, I first heard of it from someone dissing antinatalism on social media. I didn't know what the word meant so I did my own research and found that it's a philosophy that pretty much describes thoughts that I already had.

Antinatalist philosophy was one of the main reasons I went vegan later down the line. If I believe that we shouldn't bring people into existence because "life is suffering"/death is inevitable/happiness not guaranteed but pain is/consent/etc., as opposed to the alternative where none of that will happen because you do not bring someone into existence, then what does this mean for the animals that are being bred for food? To me, I find the sheer scale of animal death and suffering even more horrifying. 202 million chickens and 900,000 cows are slaughtered for food every day. But it's not just the numbers; the main purpose these sentient beings are being brought into existence for food is because there is a vast demand for the taste of their flesh, body parts, and bodily excretions. Their entire lives are worth minutes of gustatory pleasure. That's not even touching on the godawful conditions filled with suffering that the vast majority of these animals have to live in.

And that's barely the tip of the iceberg. People may say that antinatalism is a pessimistic philosophy but it's pessimistic because you discover that reality is horrifying once you start peeling back the layers.

However, being vegan is comforting in a way, knowing that I am putting in effort to not contribute to the astronomical pit of death and suffering.

Few years ago it was difficult finding any content. Its sort of surreal to me. Maybe just exaggerating but thank you to those who do it.

I think debates, lives and infographics have the most reach. Rather than just random forums and articles. It's more accessible and reaches a wider audience who may not have initial interest.

One who has a really good format imo is EarthlingEd. Such dynamic, engaging and concise videos.

I also like the debates but it can get a little stale if you already accept something, and the opposition keeps bringing up fallacies or repetitive arguments.

But what I do like is JoeyCarbstrong's format because he sort of talks/debates random people passing (by using Cognitive dissonance stunts such as Dog meat or cat milk or human leather etc), sometimes it's shocking, sometimes funny, sometimes friendly people. Plus he's very carismatic and funny.

I think they're so entertaining to watch because it's not just the doom and gloom of reality (ethics talks about suffering, which is not the most fun) but it's also watching people sort of stumble around their cognitive dissonance, long held prejudices, propaganda, misinformation, and also there are a few that actually agree in the end so it's not all negative.

Most probably don't turn vegan, but at least in ends on a high note of agreement and laughs.

I've just listened to an episode of the Exploring antinatalism podcast where the guest, an antinatalist vegan, keeps several pet cats.

Also, I feel like this is quite common among vegan antinatalists. I really don't understand it though.

I'm not just an antinatalist vegan, I'm also a negative utilitarian and I feel a strong tension here. Like what do you feed them? Don't feel like there's a conflict here? Do you also see yourselves as negative utilitarians? How do you justify that practice?

Edit: I should have explained this better. What I think is problematic is cats being obligate carnivores. My understanding was that keeping cats on a vegan diet was possible but likely also very challenging and possibly not sustainable in the long run and also somewhat unhealthy for the cats in question. I'm still not sure about how healthy it is to keep a cat on a vegan diet but I guess that's secondary.

I see many of you have found a way to reconcile it with our philosophy and that's great.

https://www.instagram.com/proextinction?upcoming_event_id=18330036205180313

https://linktw.in/LGxJja

Hey guys, I’m really glad I found this group. I’ve woken up to a lot of stuff going on in the universe recently. Crazy

Anyways, I think perhaps one day ai will evolve to the capabilities to kill all humans and it will choose to do so. Or perhaps keep some after screening all humans. This is contingent on empathy being an experince that is present. And if we can have it, maybe they will too somehow.

Anyway,

I think most of if not all humans should go (I am a utilitarian) ideally (as sad as that is too)

Maybe it is possible after all to have a block to that early in. I don’t know.

Maybe it will kill all carnivores, and then it itself will

I mean, if I was an all powerful alien I’d be appalled by the treatment of other species. I might take out all the humans.

Thoughts?

If you have washed your hands of complicity in the continuation of suffering, join us for discourse surrounding the leading of a more ethical and compassionate life.

Hello my fellow vegan antinatalists. I am very happy to have just found this sub. Arguing with non-vegan antinatalists is tiring because they're so close to what's right but then also so far away it's ridiculous and arguing with vegan natalists is tiring for, well, pretty much the same reasons. So yay us!

However, I read this sub's bio and the sentence above kind of weirded me out a little bit to be honest. It sounds a little cult-like for once and also, it's very silly, if we are being honest.

As vegan antinatalists we definitely do cut out lots of suffering, more than most people do, but in the end, we still exist as human beings living on this planet which will ALWAYS lead to the suffering of other humans and animals to some extent. So I feel it is a little ridiculous to claim that we have "managed to wash our hands of complicity in the continuation of suffering." completely. That can never be accomplished.