/r/Ultralight

Photograph via snooOG

r/Ultralight is the largest online Ultralight Backcountry Backpacking community! This sub is about overnight backcountry backpacking, with a focus on moving efficiently, packing light, generally aiming at a sub 10 pound base weight, and following LNT principles. Join us and ask yourself the question: Do I really need that?

r/Ultralight is the largest online Ultralight Backcountry Backpacking community! This sub is about overnight backcountry backpacking, with a focus on moving efficiently, packing light, and generally aiming at a sub 10 pound base weight. Join us and ask yourself the question: Do I really need that?

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Resources

/r/Ultralight's Wiki Knowledge Base

Ultralight Gear Vendor List

Ultralight and Ultra-cheap Gear List

Common /r/Ultralight Abbreviations

Leave No Trace Principles

Itn'l Gear/Food Substitutions

Pack Weight Tools

How To Ask For A Pack Shakedown

Lighterpack

/r/Ultralight Crowd-Sourced Databases

Weight Submission Form

View The Gear Database!

Pack List Database

Subreddit Filters

Trip Reports - View only trip reports.

Gear Review - View only gear reviews.

Shakedowns - View only pack shakedowns.

Question - View only questions.

Trails - View only trail related threads.

Skills - View only skills.

Weekly Thread - View only the Weekly Discussion threads.

Best Of The Sub - View only the "best of" threads.

Trail Specific Subs

/r/PacificCrestTrail

/r/AppalachianTrail

/r/CDT

/r/JMT

Related Subs

/r/ULgeartrade

For buying, selling, and trading ultralight backpacking gear.

/r/WildernessBackpacking

General, non-UL wilderness backpacking

/r/MYOG

Make Your Own Gear.

/r/Hammocks, /r/HammockCamping, and /r/ULHammocking

/r/Thruhiking

/r/SearchAndRescue

/r/TrailRunning

/r/Ultralight

674,506 Subscribers

1

Wool vs synthetic socks?

What is everyones thoughts on synthetic socks? I own a set of Danish Endurance Crew running socks (synthetic) as well as a variety of wool socks (mostly smart wool and various danish endurance). I find for summer time use I like the synthetic a lot more than light wool socks but come winter time I love the wool. I currently have a basket on amazon for some new socks, going to order some darn tough as well as a few more danish endurance synthetic socks and wondering if anyone has some other suggestions to try.

2 Comments
2024/06/20
19:05 UTC

1

Family 4p Tent

Hey all, I'm looking for some feedback on which tent to choose.

Background: We are an experienced outdoor couple, we have a 3-year-old and 2-month-old and have taken the older child on Bikepacking and Hiking trips up to 7 days, and don't plan to stop now that we have two. We could get by with a 3P tent for a while, we'd like to invest in something that lasts a while and we will need a 4p tent in a few years. We do NOT want to split into 2 tents for now. We will in 10 years time when this tent is worn out and the kids are older. We have both a DCF tarp and Silynylon 2p tent, so we have experience in both materials. Our preference is to avoid DCF for a couple of reasons (real-world durability with kids, ease of setup/teardown, noise in wind/rain, and cost)

Location: next two years in Bay Area and Serrias, then back to Spanish Pyrenees/europe for the foreseeable future

I've read every post on Reddit and backpacking light about 4p tents and I've narrowed it down to two options that are quite different, but cost and weigh about the same. I haven't used a pyramid before.

Tarptent Hogback 1800grams including stakes/pole
https://www.tarptent.com/product/hogback/
+made in USA
+real 4p footprint
+ease of setup (inner and outer are attached)
+Quite compact for size, easier to find places to pitch 218cm x 218cm
-Shorter, can't stand up
-No vestibule space (transitions in/out with kids is the hardest part)
-Can't be split up to share load(nice especially on bikes)

Locus Khafra Sil Grande+4/5 mesh 950-1950grams depending on setup and pole used
https://locusgear.com/en-glbl/products/khafra-sil?variant=48183648747810
+offers huge vestibule for hangout/cooking/transition in and out of the tent
+More flexible in future, i.e. don't bring mesh if we don't need it, can be used with trekking pole, can sleep with a bunch of friends if we want with no mesh (3 adults, 3 kids for example)
-Huge footprint may make finding spots difficult to pitch 3m x3m (though you can also pitch over rocks or stumps)
-4 month lead time (fine)
-more finicky to pitch (my impression of trekking pole-style tents)

I don't think any MID tent with full mesh is very practical for us, and I would choose the hogback over a regular MID. However Locus is the only brand offering a 4/5 mesh that I've seen, and it really offers something unique with an acceptable sleeping space and a huge vestibule. I asked Locus and they said a regular Khafra 4/5 mesh is probably too small for a family.

Thanks for any feedback!

7 Comments
2024/06/20
11:43 UTC

1

Anybody 6’5 or taller use either of these tents?

Got a budget to get one of the high end tarp tents or zpacks tents wondering if any tall guys have used them preferably the protrail or the plex solo

21 Comments
2024/06/20
03:42 UTC

81

Plastic particles found in arteries and now male reproductive organ....time to ditch Smart water bottles?

I don't know if you all have been paying attention to this. Just curious if anybody is concerned enough to switch to non-plastic bottles. Of course, the water we carry is usually cold and so should not cause any damage to the plastic and so maybe, it is not a concern?

Non-plastic bottles like stainless steel or titanium are very heavy. Close to 9 to 12 ounces for 1L water bottles. It will be impractical to carry 5 liters worth of non-plastic bottles.

Asking Google what causes plastic particles to seep into water produced this from its AI - check the last bullet regarding repeated use and how most backpackers use Smart water bottle in conjunction with Sawyer squeeze and squeeze the water bottle - "crushing the bottle". I use Steripen - so at least a little insulated from this. I know some of us use the same Water bottle for too long. Maybe replace it as well every few weeks rather than carrying it for 1000's of miles. We cannot control the first two bullets except by going to non-plastic bottles.

Plastic water bottles can cause plastic to seep into water in a number of ways, including:

  • Manufacturing: High pressure, temperature changes, and transportation during production can cause plastic to break down into microplastics, which are smaller than a sesame seed.
  • Chemicals: Some plastics, like polyethylene terephthalate (PET), can release chemicals into water when exposed to high temperatures or stored for a long time. Other plastics, like those containing bisphenol A (BPA) or bisphenol S (BPS), can also leach chemicals into food and water.
  • Repeated use: Repeatedly opening and closing the cap, crushing the bottle, or using it in a hot car can break off PET particles. Wearing down the material from repeated use can also allow bacteria to build up in cracks

Comments?

144 Comments
2024/06/20
02:06 UTC

0

Remove some debris got into silicone seam-sealing?

Saw a recent thread while searching and I commented on that. Not sure if there's better subreddits to post on.

Anyone have advice for debris that got in the silicone? I didn't wipe some of it with a card. Tried to brush it on thick or wide enough. I tried using a card on some parts but wasn't sure I scraped too much away.

It started raining a little and I had to move it and got some various feathers and grass and pebbles in the silicone. I could use some more spray paint or try picking out some pieces and then re-coat it or just leave it.

Maybe use a card next time or if this ever fades and redo it anyways. Wasn't sure whether to do the inside of the tent too then maybe, or exactly which seams are important. Not to get too close to the zipper.

Also I only had the brush from a brand name sealer made for tents I bought some silicone at the hardware store but wasn't sure how to press the tube and the end for the professional press popped out so I had to pour the silicone that way and mix with some mineral spirits. Also been trying to clean a little got on the floor, using acetone. Was mixing it indoors at first.

Then the rest of it hardened in the containers I tried sealing. The inside didn't solidify as much yet. So it's been a little trouble and hassle. Most of the seals is done. It's actually a bivy and I had to fold it a couple ways to get other seams. Haven't done the inside at all. Did this in 2 or 3 sessions so far. Silicone is probably dried up now.

3 Comments
2024/06/20
00:11 UTC

8

Flextail Zero Pump. 1.2oz? Is it a blatant lie?

I bought the Flextail Zero Pump. I'm very surprised to see that the unit weighs 1.78oz (51g) despite the large print on the product 1.2oz. This does not even include the inflation port (also an essential part for use on the trails). I guess I'm just surprised that nobody ever talked about this weight discrepancy . Or did I misunderstand something?

Edit: I get it. The claimed weight is without the battery, but that's ridiculous because the pump is nothing without its battery. Why not just claim the weight of the only inflator part (and take deflator bottom off)? (I'm being sarcastic.)

64 Comments
2024/06/19
18:42 UTC

6

UL Backpack Suggestions

Hi all!

I've been slowly upgrading my gear to more UL items over the last two years. I wanted to save my backpack for the end, as volume and packing style can change what backpack you may want after collecting the rest of your gear. I've done so much research - I'm feeling overwhelmed. So I'm looking for any and all advice.

I'm leaning towards getting the Kakwa 55.

Ideally I want to own only one pack (I have different versions of the same items for summer vs winter trips, solo travel vs. going with groups, etc...... and I just don't want to spend the cash on multiple backpacks /slash/ don't want to own more than one).

I'm looking for a pack that is on the larger volume side, that has flexibility to become smaller, like having a roll top.

Some kind of framing system - sometimes I have a need to pack food for 5-7 days at a time and the pack can become quite heavy for the first few days.

I also like packing my packs without compressing items like sleeping bags or tents down into stuff sacks - so one large pocket in the middle is ideal. With NO brain on top.

I'd love to be able to access things from the top and bottom of the main compartment.

An outer pocket for the day's food, or layers.

I'd love the option for hydration bladder support, but side pockets for water bottles if going bladerless.

A hip belt (removable or otherwise) would be nice for support as well.

The option for top or bottom straps for bear canister carrying, or for other strangely shaped items.

I realize with all I'm asking, that it might be a bigger/heavier backpack than the ultra minimalist packs, but for the flexibility and my budget I really am looking for ONE pack to rule them all.

Any suggestions, criticism or support is welcomed. Thank you all!!!

34 Comments
2024/06/19
17:54 UTC

0

Altra lone peak 7 durability

I saw a lot of posts about Altras low quality and want to know how they compare, because I bought them and I just love them comfort-wise. I have a wide feet so I can not choose from loads of options.

ATM I am at 650km and I noticed first small rip. I am confident they will reach at least 750km if not more.

Quick google told me that trail runners should last around 300-500 miles, which would check out.

Can some UL gurus here tell me what are average durability values for trail runners ?

31 Comments
2024/06/19
17:49 UTC

18

Ideal seasonings and bouillon cubes?

I already carry the basic salt and pepper, but I'm looking into other seasonings that may be ideal. I've been suggested msg, garlic powder, lemon pepper & herb, and an umami seasoning from McCormick. What seasonings do you use and what are your favorite UL meals? I'm trying to catch a break from tuna packets and nature valley peanut butter wafers. 😄

70 Comments
2024/06/19
14:47 UTC

4

Flextail Zero Sleeping Pad High R Value? (vs Exped 5R Ultra)

Does anyone have experience with the flextail zero sleeping pad?

It weighs and costs the same as an Exped 5R Ultra, but has a significantly higher ASTM R Value of 5.6 (compared to 4.8 for the Exped). I had narrowed my choice down to the Exped 5R but the R value on the flextail sleeping pad is making me reconsider. Any opinions?

Link: https://www.flextail.com/products/zero-mattress-r05-regular

4 Comments
2024/06/19
14:40 UTC

34

For those thinking about upgrading their Zpacks Plex Solo to a Plex Solo Lite…

…I've both at my hand right now, and the weight difference is not very much. All following weights are including the DCF Stuff Sack, and the repair tape strip. My Zpacks Plex Solo weights 395g, whereas the Plex Solo lite weights 362g. After exchanging the guy lines at the original Plex Solo with lighter 1.5oz Dyneema lines my Plex Solo comes down to 378g, so the acutal weight saving by the thinner floor would be 16g. Could be also that I was lucky and got a "specially" light Plex Solo, and unlucky and a very heavy Plex Solo lite, but still: I'd say the upgrade is not worth it if you already have a functioning tent.

25 Comments
2024/06/19
13:45 UTC

9

Looking for a trekking pole tent in Tokyo

I’m looking for a 1 person trekking pole tent (I’ve got 2 poles though) in Tokyo for part of the Minchinoku Coastal Trail. It’s rainy season and I can only either buy in person or through amazon with amazon as the seller too to ship to a combini. I prefer to keep it around $100-$150. I’ve checked the 3 largest camping stores I could find in Tokyo with no luck.

Will be on a mix of beaches and campsites. I’m 5’8” (175cm) with a 39L pack. Heard from this sub dead man anchors or rocks for trekking pole tents should work fine but please lmk if you have different experiences.

Online I’ve found the night cat which looks similar to the Lanshang 1 but I’m newer to camping so I’m all ears to suggestions. TIA

13 Comments
2024/06/19
13:05 UTC

0

Flannel sleep shirt/fleece recommendations?

I’m hiking the PCT and I ditched my stupid scratchy fleece that I hated. But I am now fleece-less. I realized I’ve really been missing the feeling of throwing on a flannel at home, something I can sleep in or walk around in town in. Any recommendations for a warm, light flannel-style shirt/hoodie/button-up?

7 Comments
2024/06/19
11:52 UTC

0

1st ever UL tent, UK based, under £120ish ?

Hi all,

I've never camped before but looking to get into it this summer. I'm in the south-west of England and currently stuck in analysis paralysis with tents. I don't really want to spend more than £120 since I'm not even sure how often I'll camp or how I'll take to it!

I'm 5ft so definitely want my kit to be under 1.5kg

Currently my main options are these two, but open to other suggestions:

Gram-Counter Gear VLT 1P Tent for £75

or Vango Nevis 100 (currently on ebay for about £100)

Thanks :)

14 Comments
2024/06/19
08:25 UTC

19

The Mariposa is causing me pain, I need an alternative

I got a sharp pain under my left shoulder, that has been there for hundreds of miles. I've got 700 miles on it and it's just getting worse. Talking with other multiple other current and former Mariposa users that issue seems extremely common for everyone in exactly the same spot with that backpack.

I can't continue with the pain, so I need new pack. Especially as I just picked up my bear can and the pack is going to be heavier now.

Base weight: 7kg/15.4lbs, in sierra 8,5kg/18.7lbs I'm a 5.2 feet female.

Currently on the PCT in the Bishop area, seems the only available local options are: Hyperlite Southwest, ULA Circuit, osprey eja.

The ULA Circuit seems the best option to me, but I'm wondering about the experience of others, especially if you also had issues with the Mariposa.

Update:

Thanks for all the super useful responses. I was able to try on the Circuit, Southwest, Granite Gear Crown 3 60 and Osprey 58L Eja (but not the 48L) all in Small.

I went with the Circuit with the S Straps. The Southwest was a close second. The Osprey just didn't fit at all and the granite gear apparently fit (according to the salesperson) but felt like it was pulling me back.

39 Comments
2024/06/19
03:07 UTC

3

Shake me down! Sierra High Route Thru [6/27-7/12]

Location/temp range/specific trip description: My partner and I are planning to do an SHR thru, starting 6/27 and spending 13.5-14 days on trail (we could go a little faster, but figure the buffer days are useful and then we don't need to find a place in reno before our return flight). Expecting to see nighttime temps in the 30s maybe into the 20s (doubt it though), and daytime temps anywhere from 40s to 80s.

Goal Baseweight (BPW): Already trimmed a ton off my weight, and my scale comes tomorrow so I don't really have all my little weights in there yet. More if there's things you would/wouldn't bring. Anything with a yellow star I need to get still, red star I need to make decisions on still, and green star needs weight (if there's a weight it's from mfr).

Budget: Still need to buy an ice axe and microspikes, but if there's something you really think I can't miss I'll add it to my list.

Non-negotiable Items: not doing stoveless, not doing quilt (this trip)

Solo or with another person?: with my partner, shelter+cook+first aid can all be split between us.

Additional Information: Thinking I will carry an ice axe and potentially microspikes, those fall under risk-mitigation equipment (though I guess it kinda all does), and not bringing them feels stupid-light.

Planning an initial 7-8 day food carry, but gonna do it pretty light and resupply in Bishop if we need more food.

Lighterpack Link: https://lighterpack.com/r/dbx3j3

Thanks for all the help, y'all shook me down before my CT thru a couple summers ago and it was super helpful :)

15 Comments
2024/06/19
00:54 UTC

10

Stupid Light Bearspray

What are your thoughts on bear spray in black bear states (East US: PA, NY, etc..)?

I have been opting out from bringing bear spray in black bear territory to avoid the extra weight. Am I being stupid light?

I have been around black bears my whole life and don't find them the slightest bit intimidating. They are so skittish/do everything to avoid you. I am also ALWAYS making noise during my hikes to prevent myself from surprising any momma bears/bears in general.

Yes, there may be that one bear that doesn't follow my expectations, but I find packing bear spray in that instance to me is equivalent to packing your fears.

However, grizzlies puts me in a whole different mindset haha.

143 Comments
2024/06/19
00:41 UTC

9

Gossamer Help

Hey gang,

I’ve been trying to update my gear ahead of doing the JMT in September and after a ton of research and recs from people I trust I went with the Gossamer Gorilla 50.

Of course without even using it, I packed it and the side ripped. It’s a small rip and I know they’ll replace it or issue a refund… but this is making me rethink my decision.

It wasn’t over packed and wasn’t even filled with all my gear. I wasn’t straining to hard on the straps.

For reference I’ve had the Osprey Atmos AG 50 for years and have loved it but need something lighter.

What are people’s thoughts on Gossamer? Is this a fluke or do they rip easy?

17 Comments
2024/06/19
00:29 UTC

9

REI Helix Pad compared to Tensor, Xlite, Ether Light?

Can anyone compare the REI Helix (an underdog name) to the other three pads (vs Nemo Tensor vs Xlite vs Ether Light )?

I have a shocking deal lined up for the REI Helix potentially saving ~50$ bucks compared to the other three, and need to know if its worth it.

26 Comments
2024/06/18
23:21 UTC

9

Dehydrated food bag for boiling water

I want to split up a dehydrated meal into 2 servings in 2 ziplock bags, but I am concerned that adding boiling water to a Ziploc is not a good idea (extracting chemicals, or the bag fails from the heat). Any ideas, or comments?

48 Comments
2024/06/18
23:11 UTC

6

Can I open freeze-dried foods and just have them in ziploc bags?

So I bought a bunch of discounted freeze-dried veggies/soy that I found at the bulkbarn near my house. I want to portion them out in to ziploc bags for my 4 day hike this weekend rather than fumble around with portioning on the trail.

Will they go bad if I open freeze-dried carrots, veggies etc and put them in sealed ziploc bags in my backpack for 4 days? Same question for dehydrated tofu/quinoa etc.

14 Comments
2024/06/18
22:44 UTC

7

Shakedown please!

Hey folks -
I've done a ton of work related backpacking (wilderness therapy, forest service) but only in the last two trips have I started trying to shed pack weight. Holy shit, the difference it makes!
That in mind, here's what I carried on my last weekend trip (lighterpack here)
Roast me.
Where would you start saving weight?
EDIT #1 : Budget : I wouldn't think much about getting an Xmid, but an Xmid Pro is a bit much. I'd be willing to spend maybe $500 - $750 this summer, tops.
EDIT #2 : Conditions : Overnight 40-50 degrees, 60+ during the day. I don't always bring the rain gear (Northern California - no rain in the forecast till December) but the puffy always comes with me.
EDIT #3 : Hey Zealots! I weighed out all the small stuff! Including my trekking poles it comes out to ~43 oz. Replacing poles & trowel would save 16 oz right off the bat. There's another 3-5 oz floating around in there that I could eliminate pretty painlessly.

27 Comments
2024/06/18
17:24 UTC

6

Least clammy feeling rainshell

I know the consensus is that "breathable" is basically a gimmick as soon as the jacket gets wet, so instead of asking the usual "what's the best breathable ul rainshell", I'll rephrase the question and ask, what's the least clammy/sticky on skin feeling, ul rainshell for warmer weather when heavy rain may strike, which is very common in UK spring/summer/autum but you don't want to get hot to the point you feel sick while [even gently] hiking.

Thanks in advance!

41 Comments
2024/06/18
11:32 UTC

5

Arcteryx Aerios Mid FL2 and Salomon quicklace

I’ve had a pair of aerios for a while now and figured it might be worth trying them with the Salomon quicklace kit just to see how they worked with one another.

Has anyone already tried this before? My one piece of reluctance comes from the cord rubbing on the cord lace loops. Has this been an issue for anyone?

2 Comments
2024/06/18
09:50 UTC

1

Can you nest a Olicamp XTS with a handless Toakes 550ml?

Hello,
Just finished a multiday hike, my friend had a 2 vessel nesting cook system which was nice. I'm currently using an XTS Olicamp that fits my gas canister and my BRS stove. Anyone know of an option for a mug to nest in there as well? The dimensions of the Toaks 550mL no handle mug seem to fit but i'm very sceptical as it looks very tight.

TOAKS LIGHT TITANIUM 550ML POT WITHOUT HANDLE: 3 3/4" (95mm) (Dia) x 3 1/8" (80mm) (H)

TOAKS LIGHT TITANIUM 550ML POT (ULTRALIGHT VERSION): 3 3/4" (95mm) (Dia) (external lower straight part) x 3 1/8" (80mm) (H)

Olicamp XTS: Product dimensions. 11.4D x 13.5W x 11.4H centimetres. / 4.5"x 5.3"

If anyone happens to have this combination, I'd love to hear from you. Or if you could recommend a nesting cook system that would fit 2 vessels, small gas & stove.

Cheers

9 Comments
2024/06/18
07:47 UTC

1

Duration X-Mid 2P Fold or stuff?

I just bought a Durston X Mid 2P. The sil poly double wall tent. And I’m wondering whether I should be stuffing it or folding it back into the bag. I’ve stuffed it but it’s very tight. I’ve left the inner attached. Any tips or words of wisdom greatly appreciated.

21 Comments
2024/06/17
22:59 UTC

9

Has anyone used the qidian backpack from 3f ul gear ?how does it hold up to long term use?

I just got the qidian back pack form Ali express/3 ful gear for $60 to go on day hikes and weekend hikes and maybe the Appalachian trail but I’m worried about how this pack will hold up over time. On the website it says it’s listed weight is 850grams but I cut down some straps and removed the hip belt and got it down to 519 grams.

https://imgur.com/a/pwPUZj7

12 Comments
2024/06/17
22:38 UTC

0

Alta Via hut-to-hut bag advice!

Going to the Dolomites for our honeymoon in a few weeks!

Fiance has influenced me with his fixation on "gear" :)

I'm looking for a 30-35L pack (woman). I do a lot of dayhiking but not backpacking so I want to make sure I'm comfortable. My biggest fear is that I really don't like carrying heavy stuff when I want to just enjoy my walk! I'm packing clothing layers, sleeping bag liner, light raingear, and necessities but I tend to pack light, and since it's hut-to-hut I don't need to schlep camping equipment.

I tried Osprey Sirrus 34 in the store and it was supportive but felt almost TOO structured. I've used my fiance's Gossamer bag and they have some in the right size for me. Also been reading about SWD.

Anyone do this hike or something similar and can recommend a solid bag?

6 Comments
2024/06/17
22:13 UTC

1

First UL Shakedown & Final Bag Choice

After a few weeks of research, I'm on the final stretch of my gear upgrade. This will be my main setup for upcoming trips, first big trip being the GR58 (Tour du Queyras in France), 130km and about 7 days long.

I'll be upgrading from previous gear bought from Decathlon (French REI) with little consideration for weight. Now I'm trying to go as light as possible to be able to carry more food and water as well as some camera gear for longer trips.

I have a few minor things missing, but the most important is the bag. For reference I was looking for a framed sub 1kg backpack around 50L, available in the EU. I've narrowed it down to 2 bags, the Osprey Exos Pro 55L and the Kakwa 55L. I was looking at the Gossamer Gear Gorilla but the max load was a bit short for longer trips, and I would have gone for the Kakwa 40L if it wasn't sold out.

I'd love to hear your experience and opinion on this gear list. I've tried it on an overnighter, and I'm pretty happy with it. It's not quite ultralight as I am a beginner, but it's getting there.

Thanks for your help!

https://lighterpack.com/r/5lfaof

19 Comments
2024/06/17
22:09 UTC

3

SHR Thru Questions - Layering, Traction.

Leaving for a Sierra High Route Thru end of June - I have a number of questions I could use some help with:

  1. Layering: I see people doing just a fleece + windshirt, or just a puffy, or both. I'm leaning towards just puffy since I don't really think I'll need the active layers, I run pretty warm, but could use some advice. Maybe a lightweight fleece and a puffy?

  2. Traction Devices. I'll look at snow reports a couple days before we leave and decide on ice axe, but it seems microspikes aren't much better than just knobby shoes and I should do crampons or nothing. What should I be looking for in the snowpack report deciding whether to bring crampons?

Will be posting a lighterpack for a proper shakedown in a day or two, but wanted to get input on these two.

18 Comments
2024/06/17
22:08 UTC

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