/r/TheSilphArena
The premier competitive Pokémon GO league. Seeking the very best, like no one ever was. Ranked play, world leaderboards, & glory.
Seeking the very best, like no one ever was.
Arena Status: | Open! |
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Arena URL: | Silph.gg |
Pokemon GO is a top-10 grossing mobile app with millions of daily addicts players. Now that PvP combat will be possible in-game, it's only a matter of time before we all finally learn who actually is the very best - like no one ever was.
We're here to help create a rewarding and awesome global competitive scene in Pokemon GO.
The Silph Arena is a global player ranking and tournament system designed to help local communities participate in a global player ranking system - for extra fun and pressure!
When playing in ranked tournaments (adjudicated by local Silph League community leaders) your wins help increase your player tier and your rank.
Get your own player profile (sil.ph/<username>) to start keeping track of your wins here: https://thesilphroad.com/travelers-cards
Are you a community leader looking to host ranked tournaments? Join the Silph League to get started here: https://thesilphroad.com/community-leadership
/r/TheSilphArena
Super Happy!! Earlier in the season I hit Expert for the first time and now reached Legend as well. For the most part in this season I only played Ultra League.
Team Composition:
Ace to Veteran and from Expert to Legend:
Lead with Aurorus - Standard moveset
Poliwrath - Counter/Dynamic Punch/Icy Wind
S Drifblim - Standard moveset
For Veteran to Expert:
After Mankey CD I had to swap Aurorus for S Golurk and Lead with Poliwrath, as I was encountering lot more teams with fighters in the lead. Once I moved past 2750 ELO I'm not seeing much fighters but mostly double dark teams so I bought my Aurorus back in the lead.
Poliwrath is definitely the star of my team, considering it's main purpose is to counter Feraligatr.
For frequent players and those that hit Expert/Legend regularly I have a question.
The total matches I played this season to reach Legend is 1635 and won 860 with a win % of 52.59.
Is it common to play these many matches before hitting legend?
If it's not common, then how much of me hitting legend is more a function of playing a lot of matches and having daily positive sets? (Ex: 13-12)?
Also, If I don't win a set at-least 3-2 tomorrow, I will lose the chance to encounter Pikachu Libre right?
I finally got to a symmetrical rank while hunting for dust today. Do I ruin my ELO tomorrow or do the rewards change based on what ELO you had for end of season?
Just wanted to share this exciting news.
Second third season struggling to break 2350. I think my issue is my fast move timing and my team builds.
I have a decent bench to choose from, but I refuse to use pokemon I don’t like haha… looking at you Azu
Banged my head against the wall using a nonsensical team Annihilape, A Sandslash, and Serperior, and right when I thought I would break 2400 everyone started using fire and fliers lol. My theory was that if I was really weak to 2-3 type, that I would lose 2/3 of the matches and sweep the rest that didn’t counter me, only problem was everyone countered me and I just stink :) yay
Tapu Bulu - Bullet Seed & Natures Madness/Megahorn
Palkia-O - Dragon Breath & Aqua Tail/Spacial Rend
Rhyperior - Mud-Slap & Rock Wrecker/Breaking Swipe
OK - getting the team out of the way first, I had been running Tapu Bulu, Kyogre, & Charm Primarina which got me all the way to 2980 about 2-months ago. From there I fell to below 2300 because...well I don't know. Probably played tilted too often. But yikes it was rough before switching to the current lineup. Not very original I'm aware, but it got the job done.
I mainly played to win switch. Tapu Bulu has a lot of great matchups against the current popular meta like...Palkia-O & Rhyperior to randomly name a few. But it also is pretty neutral vs. the other popular fairies such as Zacian, Xerneas, & Charm Primarina. In terms of leads here's how I played them:
Zygarde/Palkia/Dragonite/Kyurem/Kyogre/Rhyperior/Gyarados - Stay in; they will bail at some point. If they don't it means they are super-weak to fairy/grass in the back.
Yveltal - Bulu loses the 1-shield & 2-shield, but Yveltal almost never shields the first attack. I had 1-2 do it, but not enough that I developed a real "strat" for that odd occurrence. Throw Natures Madness as soon as it's available and Yveltal will be 1 Sucker Punch shy of a move. From there I either waited a sec to try and catch Oblivion Wing on Rhyperior (didn't work as well the closer I got to Legend) or I just insta-swapped to Palkia-O. I'd say each had about the same success rate.
Dawn Wings Necrozma - here's where Megahorn actually came in handy a few times. This is a pretty hard lost lead and Palkia-O really doesn't like to eat an Outrage if they have it...so I usually stayed in and threw a Megahorn and invested shields to make them do the same. The Megahorn never got shielded and I could almost always get 2-shields if I gave them up. 50/50 here; that's a bad lead.
Landorus-T - Didn't see this one a whole bunch, but I always stayed in; Rhyperior doesn't want to see it and I make a move with 4 Bullet Seeds before Landy makes Stone Edge. If they shield the first move I typically tank their first move.
Solgaleo - I saw maybe 1-3 of these and I bailed right into Palkia.
Ho-Oh - Ho-Oh is just a terror...it hits so hard even on things that resist it, Sacred Fire/Brave Bird is typically about 30-40% of your health. I throw 1 Bullet Seed and swap Palkia in to soak the damage from the Incinerate. Also have to watch for Solar Beam if you somehow get it aligned with Rhyperior.
Giratina - No Legs - Man this was an annoying one because you just don't win with Bulu here. I throw Natures Madness as soon as it's up and then swap to Rhyperior. I didn't see many times where I'd swap in Rhyperior and was met with Kyogre vs. a 'Tina lead.
Xerneas/Zacian - Both play very similar against Bulu. For Xerneas I stayed in and made sure to throw 1 Geomancy before my opponent made Moonblast. Invest 2-shields, typically the opponent decides to save one and then survive based on alignment. Definitely tricky. For Zacian it more mattered whether or not my opponent had Play Rough. Either way it typically boiled down to me using 2-shields and my opponent saving 1. I generally exited the Zacian matchup without shields, but pretty energy heavy.
Enamorous - Enamorous is ironically a harder loss for this team than Ho-Oh as there's really only one team member who does well against it. I usually shielded a fly, threw Natures Madness and tried for a Fly catch on Rhyperior.
Primarina - If it's got Charm you can get both shields at the cost of just 1-shield but they're winning switch. I recommend staying in and getting both shields. If it's Waterfall then you can beat it with Tapu easy if they stay in...but they won't. Palkia-O beats Waterfall Primarina so that's something to keep in your back pocket as needed.
That's about it for leads...I don't know that I saw a single Lugia or Metagross lead.
Swaps depended heavily on the lead as I didn't want to work myself into a corner by mistake. If they lead Palkia-O and swap Landy-T I'm guessing it's a Ho-oH in the back and I'm swapping my own Palkia-O in and spending shields if need be to keep switch.
I've seen a fair amount of triple-Fairy this season and it's always a good idea to figure out which Fairy Palkia-O does the least bad against. Waterfall Primarina is probably the best case and double-debuff Zacian (CC/WC) is a close second.
Generally I treated the Swaps like the leads in terms of stay in or bail. If they swap a Rhyperior in then that means their lead and Rhyperior are weak to Bulu and it's worth preserving. So I'm staying in but making sure to shield.
I made Legend on my 4th set of the day going from 2972 to 3019 with a 4-1 set. I ended up going 1-4 on my final set so I was over 3000 for a very brief period of time. An observation - less and less people are playing this game and making Legend has become more and more difficult each passing season. I missed it twice after they changed fast move denial, but have made all since I believe. Hoping to do so again next season. Hopefully the "Fang" fast move buff is as interesting as it sounds!
New season, new shakeup! As per usual, we get new moves added to new recipients, and some existing moves get tweaked. Unlike usual, we don't get any all-new moves, but on the plus side, we got all this teased over a week ahead of time, making ol' JRE quite happy. No last minute scramble to get through it all!
But even with a relatively simple move rebalance like this one, there's still plenty to cover. Nowhere will you find analysis that goes to these depths, covering the big names and some others you likely haven't even considered.
Before we dive in, a shout-out to PvPoke as always, but also to the good folks at Dracoviz who were kind enough to share an PvPoke with me that has all the known (and projected) move updates while Mr. PvPoke was on a well-earned Thanksgiving vacation. Thank you, my friends! 🫡
That does mean that I will show FAR less simulations as I usually do, though, as they WILL be updating on PvPoke soon and I don't want to say one thing and then the sims show quite another. Believe it or not, I try NOT to confuse you all too much. 😜
Let's do this, people!
Psywave really burst onto the scene last season with Malamar, eh? Unfortunately that was about the ONLY Pokémon that recieved it that has made something of itself, so naturally it was time to pass it out to more things this season, right? Lots of good candidates that could use a boost like Bronzong, Bruxish, Sigilyph, Reuniclus, and so on. So naturally, Niantic decided to give it to... wait, am I reading this right? STARMIE?!
Actually, I, for one, am excited about this. A weird confession... back in the days of early Tier 3 raids, I used to see how many I could beat with a Psychic-type Hidden Power Starmie I had caught at a high level. No, it wasn't great, but it faced many a Machamp in those days as I just wanted to do something different. It's a goofy design for a Pokémon that I always wished could do a little more. It's actually had quite a few move updates over the years, having Quick Attack and Psybeam both removed way back in 2016 (just a couple months after the game's launch), Tackle added in Quick Attack's place (before it too was removed early in 2017), and Hidden Power and Psychic (the move!) added around that same timeframe, Thunder and ice Beam added in 2019, and then Psybeam added back earlier this year for whatever reason. So after all that, today it sits with Water Gun and Hidden Power as fast moves (and Tackle and Quick Attack as Legacy moves, the latter being TRUE Legacy and not even Elite TMable), and a variety of charge moves: Psybeam, Psychic, Power Gem (very thematic!), Ice Beam, Thunder, and Hydro Pump. There's some decent potential there, just stuck behind a variety of average to poor fast moves.
So add all that to Psywave, and we start to have some intrigue. Add in Surf as a new charge move (with STAB) on top of that, and suddenly we got something cooking! With Power Gem having been buffed in Season 20 to a legit good move, this is a completely new look for Starmie, and obviously very much a zero to potential hero story. Look at all the new potential wins it gains: Clodsire, Gastrodon, Carbink, Pangoro, Machamp, Primeape, Annihilape, Wigglytuff, Toxapex, Alolan Sandslash, Abomasnow, Quagsire, and a tie with Diggersby for good measure. Now it does still have plenty of blind spots, having to still fear most things that beat up on both Water (Grass, Electric) AND Psychic (Ghosts, Darks, Bugs mostly) types and having little answer for most of them. That's probably enough to hold it back in Open play. But in Cup formats, this star is suddenly shining rather brightly, and an old Starmie fan like me is totally here for it! ✨
Also worth noting that Starmie gets big enough for Ultra League, and potentially without any XL investment, but it's not nearly as impressive even after this update. However, if you happen to have a highly leveled one sitting around from back in the day (like my old Psychic Hidden Power buddy), maybe you can try taking it for a spin after a couple quick TMs, eh?
Everyone knows that it is not Arceus that is the true Pokémon god, but Bidoof. So amazing is it that it once had its very own Cup format, if you recall.
But what of its evolutionary big bro, BIBAREL? It often gets lost in the hoopla (bidoopla? 🤔) surrounding the awesomeness that is Bidoof, but it's had a couple moments in the sun as well, such as Hisui Cup, Sinnoh Cup (probably its brightest moment yet), and some old Silph Arena formats like Ferocious Cup. Usually, however, its unique Normal/Water typing is more liability than benefit, and especially after the nerf to Surf (which it has relied on pretty heavily, needing its low cost with only average energy gains coming from Water Gun), it struggles to make any real impact.
But now it gets the tonic that turned other Normal types like Dunsparce and Miltank and Lickilicky into overnight stars: Rollout. Just to reiterate why that move is so good, a reminder: it generates 4.33 Energy Per Turn (EPT) (the same as Snarl, Geomancy, and Bullet Seed) while also dealing 2.66 Damage Per Turn (DPT). No other fast move in the game that generates at least that much energy deals any higher than 2.5 DPT, and even then the ONLY one that does even that is 2.5 DPT/4.5 EPT Karate Chop. Every other move that generates 4.33 EPT deals no higher than 1.66 DPT. Rollout is overall superior to even amazing moves Poison Sting and Fairy Wind (and now buffed Thunder Shock too, but more on that later) with their 2.0 DPT/4.5 EPT. Rollout is without a doubt one of the very best fast moves in the entire game, probably Top 5 overall, one of only two (Karate Chop being the other) in which the EPT and DPT add together for a total of 7.
ANYway, now that we remember why getting Rollout is a big deal, here's Bibarel with Rollout. Actually, even better, here is Bibarel with Rollout and Return, which picks up wins over Guzzlord and Wigglytuff (though sometimes gives up Greninja to do it). Or best of all, Bibarel with Rollout, Return, and just a little extra Defense, which washes away Clodsire as well by reducing Poison Sting damage from 4 each to just 3 each, reaching an extra Surf for the win. Neat! And Bibarel now beats those other Rollout users too (Licky, Dundun, and Miltank... provided it doesn't eat a Thunderbolt from that last one), which are all gains from when it was stuck with Water Gun, along with other new wins like Feraligatr, Drapion, Mandibuzz, Marowak, and the aforementioned Wigglytuff and Guzzlord.
Is it suddenly an Open meta all star? Well, no, not really. It still comes with worrying vulnerabilities to Fighting damage and everything that Water types have to fear (with no direct answers to its hardest counters). Moving from Water Gun to Rollout actually makes it a tad weaker to Ground and Steel types too, even if it doesn't lead to any big notable new losses. But Bibarel should perform far better in Limited metas now, particularly ones where Water is allowed but Normal is not specifically on the invite list, allowing it to go play while the other Rollout Crew has to stay home. If you have a good one already, this is an easy TM decision. And if not, this is the time to go and acquire or build one. Rollout is no joke... and now, neither is Bibarel. Who's the god now?! (Okay, it's still Bidoof. But Bibarel is getting there!)
"I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere."
Okay, pipe down, Anakin. Some of us LIKE Sand Attack. And now GLISCOR is among them.
Gliscor was part of the collateral damage of Wing Attack last season, which had far-reaching ramifications but I am convinced was mostly targeted at Gliscor's little cousin Gligar. Gliscor mostly left Great League to Gligar and did its best work in Ultra League, but that was then and this is now. I mean, it's viable-ish, but kinda sad. Sand Attack helps to at least some degree, tacking on stuff like Skeledirge, Zygarde, and Cresselia, which are all very nice pickups, and at least give it a winning record again versus the core meta. It will see some use again, more than it does right now, at least. Not as exciting as some of the other updates, but we'll take it.
And as for Great League, Gliscor with Sand Attack may actually surpass poor Gligar now. Wing Attack still gives Gligar a couple unique wins like Jumpluff, but Gliscor puts dirt in the eye of Diggersby, Carbink, Malamar, Drapion, and Quagsire that Gligar has no real shot at (with Wing Attack, at least). I do think you're better off with non-Shadow rather than the seemingly more popular Shadow Gliscor, though.
I do think this all means we won't see any big buffs coming for Gligar anytime soon. RIP... or so long sucker, depending on your opinions on Gligar!
In perhaps the strangest update of the rebalance (Niantic always does something weird!), DRAGALGE can now learn Focus Blast. Which gives it... uh... Steel coverage? Yeah, this one is very odd.
It does nothing to help in Great League, with both Gunk Shot and especially Outrage outperforming it.
The good news, maybe, is in Ultra League, where anti-Steel coverage CAN be nice, and thus Focus Blast actually adds on potential wins against Registeel and Cobalion (and Lickilicky) as compared to Outrage (which instead can beat Feraligatr and Tentacruel). So for you Dragalge fans out there, congrats on that, I suppose!
The three "elemental" Punches -- Fire, Ice, and Thunder -- have been staples in PvP from the beginning, and unchanged since the beginning too. In a game with constant change, the elemental Punches have remained fixed points at 40 energy for 55 damage. Nothing groundbreaking -- boring, even -- but solid, and a key piece of several big Pokémon over the years, with some that used to be big but have faded (Medicham, Hypno), some that just have better moves now and don't usually run the Punches anymore (Poliwrath, Raichu, Ampharos, Primeape), and then several that are still VERY relevant and usually DO rely at least somewhat on a Punch (Diggersby and Groudon with Fire Punch, Alolan Sandslash and Marshadow and Electivire with Ice Punch, Goodra and Typhlosion and perhaps Lucario and Scrafty with Thunder Punch, etc.). Not surprisingly, it is mostly this last bunch that are worth looking at again right now, because for the first time, all three Punches are getting an upgrade to 60 damage, which gives them now the same stats as Mud Bomb and Blaze Kick (which both got the exact same upgrade last year, from 55 to 60 damage) and Kyurem's Glaciate (minus its Attack debuff to the opponent, of course). To reiterate, this is a straight upgrade to these moves and everything that uses them, so I can start by saying that if you use a Pokémon with these moves already, keep on trucking and enjoy the occasional new wins that will come with it. But if you want more details, here are some of the highlights I see, in order of Punch....
DIGGERSBY has several variants that work, with two viable fast moves and plenty of good cases for Scorching Sands, Earthquake, and even Hyper Beam as closing moves. But basically every moveset it runs includes Fire Punch for coverage (particularly Grass and/or Ice types that give it problems) and bait potential. The improvement with now-buffed Fire Punch is subtle, but pretty consistently there. Quick Attack/Earthquake/Fire Punch picks up wins versus Gastrodon in 0shield and Toxapex in 1shield.... despite them both resisting Fire Punch, it now deals enough damage to combine with an Earthquake or two for enough damage to escape with wins. QA/FP/Hyper Beam picks up Cresselia, Shadow Alolan Sandslash (that one is obviously just spamming Fire Punch for the win), and the mirror match in 1shield, and Mandibuzz in 2v2 shielding. Mud Shot/FP/Hyper Beam sees no major changes, showing a couple gains in sims in 2shield (Carbink and Mandibuzz) that actually only change due to charge move order rather than damage, so there's actually no difference between old or new Fire Punch there. And there is ALSO no real change with the more popular (but less recommended) Scorching Sands. Still though, the extra wins for the movesets I more recommend anyway (Quick Attack with Earthquake or Hyper Beam) are quite nice. Diggersby should rise up the Great League charts a bit after this, despite already being inside the Top 10.
On the other end of the PvP spectrum, we have Master League GROUDON. Here the moveset is much easier to look at; Dragon Tail CAN sneak away with unique wins like Zygarde, Giratina, and Dragonite, but Mud Shot is MUCH preferred with all the extra wins that come with it, like Dialga (including Origin Forme), both Necrozma Fusions, Mewtwo, Metagross, Zacian, Xerneas, Florges, Primarina, and Shadow Rhyperior, to name a few. Now the difference with buffed Fire Punch is quite small, but notable nonetheless, with Togekiss moving into the win column in 1v1 shielding. With its current 55 damage, even landing three Fire Punches allows Togekiss to limp away, albeit with single digit HP. New 60-damage Fire Punch ensures it is Groudon that gets out alive, with double digit HP to at least land a hit or two against whatever comes next and maintain all-important switch advantage.
Only other Fire Punch users I want to mention are MAGMAR and MAGMORTAR. The former has more bulk, the latter has more move variety (with Psychic {the move} and Legacy Community Day move Thunderbolt) and can potentially play around in Master League. But both just had Karate Chop majorly buffed last season, and now Fire Punch to go along with it, with charge moves like those I just mentioned and Scorching Sands for closers. They are VERY interesting now, and while their overall win/loss records are still lower than you would like, they're definitely worth keeping an eye on in Limited metas. This buff only helps!
The first name that comes to mind has to be ALOLAN SANDSLASH. The difference is admittedly small with buffed Ice Punch, but it IS there: Powder Snow A-Slash gets a new pickup of Dunsparce in 1v1 shielding in Great League, and Shadow Golurk in 0shield in Ultra League, while Shadow Claw A-Slash picks up ShadowLurk and (Snarl) Mandibuzz in 0shield in Ultra. Now of course, that's all even shield simulations, so certainly this could be even better than that shows in uneven fights where you or the opponent are starting with some energy in the bank or are up shields or such. The point is that A-Slash gets a bit better, and will rank better now too. It was already meta, and this just makes it a touch moreso. Also of note, even though we're going to cover it in a bit more detail later, is that A-Slash can also learn Bulldoze, which is apparently seeing some big changes in this update. That will likely change how it looks moving forward, though I'm still leaning more towards Drill Run for the pure power advantage it has over the new 45-damage Bulldoze.
One Pokémon that may not come as immediately to mind is ELECTIVIRE. Ice Punch provides it some handy coverage versus Ground and Grass types that normally beat up on Electrics without much fear. For now I'm going to say that it indeed looks better, with new wins like Primeape and Carbink in GL, Skeledirge, Annihilape, and Shadow Claw Altered Giratina in UL, and Snorlax, Dragonite, and Metagross in ML (perhaps more relevant to Premier, but still). But while some of those wins are obviously due to buffed Ice Punch (the Dragons in particular), some also come due to Vire's buffed fast move, and we'll save that discussion for later.
Both ANNIHILAPE and PRIMEAPE used to rely on Ice Punch more, and with the teased nerf to Rage Fist that came and went from the blog, I was prepared to consider Ice Punch much more strongly again. But Niantic seeimingly reneged on that nerf, and thus even with its buff, it's hard for me to recommend Ice Punch over Fist or the Apes' closing moves (Close Combat or Shadow Ball). The one place I would still strongly recommend it is in Dragon and/or Ground stuffed Master League, so it's worth noting that Ice Punch Anni can now defeat Dragonite even going with no charge moves other than Ice Punch, thanks to the buffed damage. (Before it needed a Rage Fist Attack boost to finish Dragonite off in time.)
That all said, you're less likely to see Anni in Master League at all when you have MARSHADOW and its buffed-last-season Sucker Punch hanging around. It typically runs Ice Punch too (has access to Fire Punch as well, but Ice is generally much more useful in ML), and beats things Annihilape cannot like Dawn Wings, Solgaleo, Landorus, and Zygarde (in 1v1 shielding, and others like Giratina, Dialga, Mewtwo, and Zarude in other shielding scenarios). With the buff to Ice Punch, the improvement is subtle, as with Anni, but definitely there: pickups of Altered Giratina in 2v2 shielding, and Zygarde with shields down. (It already beat Zygarde in 1v1 and 2v2 shielding, unlike Annihilape.) Marshie just became an even more worthy grind for Master League.
Sticking with Master League for a minute, quietly one of the better beneficiaries of Ice Punch's extra power is URSALUNA. In 1v1 shielding, straight Ice Punch can now beat Altered Giratina and the revitalized Yveltal (with buffed Sucker Punch) in 1shield, as well as Zygarde and Dragonite with shields down. This puts it more on par with the buffed-in-Season-20 Swift, which can outrace Dialga and Rhyperior (by baiting a shield and setting up a winning High Horsepower) whereas Ice Punch instead beats Zygarde and now Yveltal and Giratina. Not sure if that will end up really raising its profile in ML, but those who use it will certainly be happy with the new gains.
Could this bring MEDICHAM back? Eh, likely not, but it DOES help. Assuming Dynamic Punch as the closing move, Counter Medicham picks up Primeape in 0shield and 1shield, and Psycho Cut Medi sees significant gains with Guzzlord, Malamar, and Annihilape in 1shield, and Anni, Malamar, and Shadow Quagsire in 2shield. Now I will caveat that by saying that the order of moves and the opponent's shielding decisions definitely have effects on the outcome, but Ice Punch gives more "outs" than it did previously. Don't expect to see Medi shoot back up the charts, but at least it has a little more teeth after being defanged so hard this year.
Looking at TYPHLOSION first, because it's really only burst onto the scene because of Thunder Punch. In Great League even shield matchups, Shadow Typhlosion really only has one notable pickup, though it's kind of a crazy one: Azumarill in the 0shield. Non-Shadow Typh is notably worse overall, but with the buffed Thunder Punch it does now gain Annihilape in 1shield and Primeape in the 2shield. It also gains Annihilape in the 1shield in Ultra League, and Shadow Typh also gains Anni in the 1shield and picks up Primeape in 2shield. Relatively minor improvements, but some good names among them.
GOODRA is kind of different because it doesn't always even want Thunder Punch, performing just as well or sometimes better with Aqua Tail and Power Whip. If you DO run Thunder Punch/Power Whip instead though, in Great League it gains Annihilape in 1shield (new Thunder Punch seems to really hate on Anni, doesn't it?), Shadow Drapion and Shadow Feraligatr with shields down, and Primeape (who also seems to hate Thunder Punch now) in 2shield. In Ultra League, where it favors Aqua Tail AND Thunder Punch a bit more, Goodra picks up Primeape in 1shield, Annihilape and Feraligatr with shields down, and rather surprisingly, Altered Giratina (with Shadow Claw) in 2shield, despite Electric being resisted. (And yes, it IS a final Thunder Punch that gets the KO). And in Master League, you really don't want to run Thunder Punch, but if you DO the buff means it now beats Palkia and Melmetal with shields down, and Waterfall Primarina in 2shield.
If you see MUK anymore, it's usually the Alolan variety, but the OG used to be pretty interesting in PvP as well, and it is in part thanks to Thunder Punch. Maybe this will help bring it back? Shadow Muk with newly buffed Thunder Punch gains Shadow Machamp, Annihilape, and Toxapex with shields down, and Anni in 2v2 shielding as well. In Ultra League, Shadow Muk also gains Anni in 1shield, Anni and Primeape in 0shield, and Primeape against in 2v2 shielding. Man, those Apes must really hate Thunder Punch now!
I don't know that I'd endorse running it, but HEATMOR does benefit nicely from this change with gains like Drifblim, Cresselia, and poor Annihilape again!
Several other good PvP Pokémon don't seem to change much with this buff, with LUCARIO, SCRAFTY, and CHESNAUGHT either not wanting Thunder Punch coverage at all or just not notably benefitting from it, and PACHIRISU not gaining anything of particular note either.
I expected this would be big news for the RAICHUs, but I'm not sure it actually is. I expect ALOLAN RAICHU will like this in formats like Psychic Cup, but it doesn't seem to affect much in Open play. And KANTO RAICHU still prefer the also-recently-buffed Brick Break for its bait move. I do like both Raichus (OG especially) more than most, and am happy for any buff they get, but this may be a quiet and more theoretical upgrade for them.
This is a very Elemental-focused update, as not only are the three Punches buffed, but also the Fang fast attacks: Fire, Ice, and Thunder again. They've always been decent, just unexciting, with 4.0 Damage Per Turn, but an underwhelming 2.5 Energy Per Turn. While we do not know exactly what its energy generation we will be moving forward, we do know that it is being increased, and moving to a flat 3.0 EPT makes a ton of sense. That would make them a DPT and EPT clone of potent but balanced fast moves Dragon Breath, Confusion, Gust, and the now nerfed Counter, and just behind Mud Slap and Astonish and their 4.0 DPT/3.33 EPT. The Fangs are all looking pretty good if 3.0 EPT is what comes to pass, and that's going to be our assumption as we dive into what these changes most affect....
So I started with Great League, but honestly there's not much of note at that level that stands to benefit from the buff. INCINEROAR is still better with Snarl and often even with Double Kick. PYROAR and LITLEO have Incinceratw, which is slow but just better with 4.0 DPT and 4.0 EPT. There are a couple things that learn multiple Fang moves that I'll circle back on, but for now let's move on...
...all the way up to Master League. There are a few things worth mentioning here, starting with one you probably wouldn't think of right away: ZACIAN. There was a time not all that long ago that it was a HUGE part of Master League, though it's faded more and more over time, and remains okay with Quick Attack, just not nearly as impressive. The energy gains allow it to outrace Kyogre and Primarina to back-to-back Wild Charges and escape with a win (despite their obvious resistance to Fire Fang itself). It can also reach double Wild Charge before Mewtwo can reach a third Psystrike and flips that matchup to a new win as well, AND reaches double Close Combat in time to take out Dialga before it can get to a second, fatal Iron Head. The one caveat is now sometimes losing to Palkia, seeing as how it double resists Fire and takes only neutral from both Close Combat and Wild Charge. You can even mix up movesets more than before, like with both Wild Charge AND Play Rough, which drops DIalga but gains Zygarde and Origin Giratina, while giving up nothing else that Fire Fang can burn through. I can see Zacian making a bit of a return for folks willing to give up the insane speed its known for with its other high-energy fast moves and playing this new and interesting flavor.
There are also a couple Dragons that can run Fire Fang, though there was little reason to seriously consider it before now. RESHIRAM gets STAB on it, and while it may sound crazy to NOT run STAB Dragon Breath, the Fire Fang buff brings MUCH more pressure to Fairies and Steels, adding on things that Drsgon Breath Reshi typically loses to like Togekiss, Xerneas, Zacian, Florges, Excadrill, and Mamoswine, though giving up the extra Dragon damage means losses now to several other Dragons, including Altered Giratina and Palkia, as well as Kyogre. But Fire Fang Reshiram is absolutely viable now, having the energy necessary to hang with Dragon Breath versus things like Mewtwo, Yveltal, and Origin Giratina that it fell short of before.
The other Dragon worth a mention is SALAMENCE. It's still kind of mediocre overall compared to other Dragons, but with Draco Meteor and Fly, the upgraded Fire Fang picks up Zacian, Solgaleo, Mewtwo, Metagross, and Kyogre that it couldn't beat before, and represents a new high bar for Salamence wins in Master League (double what it can get with Dragon Tail). Still just spice, but definitely moving up the charts a bit.
Sticking with Master League for the moment, we have Zacian's counterpart: ZAMAZENTA. It learns Ice Fang, though as with Zacian to this point, has usually shied away from it in favor of Snarl or Quick Attack (where it's seen use at all). Ice Fang now gains Yveltal, Rhyperior, Palkia, and Dialga that old Ice Fang couldn't finish off, and while Snarl can outrace Excadrill and Dawn Wings that Ice Fang cannot, Ice Fang instead beats Zygarde, Palkia, Dragonite, Altered Giratina, Yveltal, and Landorus. I think it's quite clearly the preferred fast move now, though will Zamazenta actually see use enough for it to matter? Guess we'll have to wait and see.
The buff doubles the number of wins BAXCALIBUR can get against the current Master League meta, with Dawn Wings, Altered Giratina, Tapu Bulu, Mewtwo, Kyogre, Groudon, and Rhyperior all sliding into the win column. I think it easily becomes its favored fast move now, and helps it become much more of a threat in Master League. That said, I think ARCTIBAX (in Great League, obviously) still prefers Dragon Breath, as it beats Talonflame, Greninja, Gastrodon, Feraligatr, and Shadow Alolan Marowak that Ice Fang falls short against. Put simply: Master League has a lot more Ice-weak (or at least Dragon-resistant) things in the meta than Great League does.
DRAPION has risen up the rankings with last season's buff to Poison Sting, but I've seen it run with great success using Ice Fang too, even with its just-okay energy generation of the past. Drap has some excellent charge moves though, so now getting to them faster with Ice Fang makes that variant all the more dangerous. For Shadow Drapion, ALL of the following are now wins with 3.0 EPT Ice Fang that were losses with 2.5 EPT Ice Fang: Annihilape, Ariados, Charjabug, Feraligatr, Guzzlord, Lickilicky, Talonflame, and the mirror match against Poison Sting Drap. Poison Sting still has distinct advantages, of course, but it and Ice Fang are now on pretty equal footing overall, the former outracing Abomasnow, Carbink, ShadowGatr, Shadow A-Wak, Toxapex, and Wigglytuff, while Ice Fang instead freezes Anni, Licky, Guzzlord, Jumpluff, Mandibuzz, Talonflame, and the mirror. There's not much noticable improvement in Ultra League, though it's worth noting that, again, Ice Fang and Poison Sting get a comparable number of meta wins already, so you deploy Ice Fang there if you wish too.
FERALIGATR used to perform well with Ice Fang many seasons ago, and so I did check to see if this buff may bring those good days back, but nah... it's much better with Shadow Claw now basically everywhere you'd use it.
There are a number of notable Pokémon that learn multiple Fangs and therefore may stand to benefit in multiple ways.
HIPPOWDON learns all three! It's usually best with Ice Fang, and picks up Dialga, Zacian, Mewtwo, and Origin Giratina in Master League (as a Shadow) -- though it probably still prefers Sand Attack -- and as a non-Shadow, gains Ampharos, Shadow Drapion, Shadow Golurk, and Altered Giratina in Ultra League. And in Great League, it becomes much more interesting with gains that include Shadow Quagsire, Marowak, Machamp, Talonflame, and Drifblim. Not bad at all for a Ground type, eh? Not sure if it will suddenly show up in Open, but in Limited formats, I think the Hungry Hungry Hippo is sure to show up with more frequency.
These days it usually wants to run with Fairy Wind, but MAWILE in the olden days was known for running Fire Fang. And perhaps it will again now, with the ability now to burn through Dewgong, Lickilicky, and Dunsparce after this buff. Fairy Wind still has the edge overall with unique wins versus Azumarill, Carbink, Malamar, Feraligatr, Annihilape, and Shadow Drapion, but Fire Fang is no slouch with its own unique wins over Charjabug, Alolan Sandslash, and the aforementioned Dewgong and Dunsparce.
And last but not least, ARCANINE. It can run with Thunder Fang, though honestly, having Wild Charge for potential Electric damage means it usually wants to stick with STAB Fire Fang instead. It has some intrigue in lower Leagues, but honestly, I'm kinda interested in it now in Master League, where it can now achieve JUST shy of a 50% winrate (15-16-0 record) with Fire Fang/Psychic Fangs/Scorching Sands, which gives it wins over Dialga and Origin Dialga (as opposed to Psychic Fangs/Wild Charge which beats Yveltal instead). Arcanine with FF/PF/SS can actually beat everything old Fire Fang Arcanine could with Scorching Sands or Wild Charge. It's an overused phrase, but Arcanine with Psychic Fangs, Scorching Sands, and buffed Fire Fang is truly "strictly better" than old Fire Fang Arcanine with any moveset, tacking on Dusk Mane and the previously mentioned Dialga wins to anything Arcanine used to be able to do. Burning through Fairies, Steels (even Excadrill), and Ice and Grass types like nobody's business... Arcanine could legit find a spot on Master League teams now, and is an easier XL grind than many other Master League 'mons.
We got yet one more elemental move to cover, folks, and it's another fast move. And this time, we know for certain what the buff is: THUNDER SHOCK is getting bumped up from 3 damage to 4, meaning instead of dealing 1.5 DPT as it always has, it's now getting the same treatment that Poison Sting and Fairy Wind did last season, going to a 2.0 DPT/4.5 EPT move. You likely remember how many prominent users of those two fast moves surged last season, so yes, this is one to get excited about! What Thunder Shock users may find themselves shooting up the charts now?
MORPEKO arrived in the game like a ton of bricks, huh? I predicted it would be really good, but not quite this good. Dang thing has been everywhere since its arrival. Per GO Battle Log, it's already a Top 15 Pokémon in Open GL, and ranked inside the Top 10 in Willpower Cup and Top 5 in Halloween Cup. And now, yes, it gets even better with the buff to Thunder Shock, gaining wins like Carbink, Primeape, and Pangoro. That's three things that should wallop most Dark types, but now not Morpeko!
Another shocking little mouse, EMOLGA, has always been one of my favorites, and now it gets a bit better with new wins versus Wigglytuff and Jumpluff, and finally a win percentage in the GL meta over 50%. Not bad, little guy. Not bad.
I'm also excited to see what this does for fellow flier ZAPDOS. Early looks show pickups like Solgaleo and both Necrozma Fusions in Master League (running Drill Peck and Zap Cannon as the closer), Pangoro, Dirfblim, and Tentacruel in Ultra League (with Drill Peck and Thunderbolt), and Primeape, Shadow Drapion, and Serperior in Great League (as a Shadow with Drill Peck/Thunderbolt). It now has a winning record against the core meta of all three Leagues. Like I said, I'm excited!
MELMETAL has fallen on rather hard times, and the nerf to Rock Slide didn't help matters... it's usually better in Master League now with Double Iron Bash. But it still fell frustratingly short of a couple big Steel-weak Fairies, like Xerneas and Zacian thanks to their sneaky Fighting charge moves. Well no longer, as D.I.B. plus increased damage from Thunder Shock now turns the tables on both of them. This change may help it emerge in Great League too, as D.I.B./Superpower Mel now gains wins over big names like Mandibuzz, Drifblim, Dewgong, and Feraligatr, and a 20-15 record. Might it even break into Open play? 🤔
BELLIBOLT has always been criminally underrated. Yes, it has no real coverage moves, but what it lacks there it more than makes up for in good STAB moves (Thunder Shock/Parabolic Charge/Zap Cannon, which it has more than enough bulk to utilize properly) and really good bulk, especially for an Electric type. As a pure Electric with only Electric moves, I don't know that we'll see it really break out, per se, but it IS notably better now, with new wins versus Dunsparce and Ariados in Great League, as well as Malamar, Clefable, and even Electric-resistant Ampharos in Ultra League, on its way to a 19-12 record there... and without needing any XL Candy. I think it really SHOULD see some Open play now, don't you?
And believe it or not, I'm almost at the Reddit character limit! So back down to Great League for the rest, rapid fire style. STUNFISK certainly has a favored fast move now, with Thunder Shock now overcoming Azumarill and Dewgong and getting it back above a 50% winrate against the GL core meta. TOGEDEMARU remains uncomfortably reliant on Fell Stinger baits, but a buff to Thunder Shock's damage actually plays nicely into the Attack buffing that comes with Fell Stinger, allowing it to finish of Malamar now and become more dangerous in general. DEDENNE fans everywhere can celebrate, as it gains THREE new wins with this buff: Dewgong, Jumpluff, and Primeape! Somewhere, RyanSwag is celebrating. And finally, HISUIAN ELECTRODE is legit scary now. I didn't talk about it much after last season's buff to Swift because H-Trode remained so-so, but now? Now it picks up as many as SEVEN meta wins: Lickilicky, Dunsparce, Cresselia, both Apes, and even Shadow Drapion and Shadow Alolan Sandslash and their scary super-effective-versus-Grass damage. I would be... well, shocked if H-Trode doesn't finally start popping up outside of just Cup metas now.
So to close out, we have some wild changes coming to BULLDOZE. Formerly a very mediocre 60 energy for 80 Ground-type damage, it's about to drop all the way to 45 damage, but with a promised energy cost decrease and "chance" to decrease the opponent's Defense by one stage, but we have no idea what the cost or chance of debuff are. Dracoviz has projected a cost of 40 energy and a 33% debuff chance, and at least as far as the cost, I agree that's probably best case scenario. Unfortunately, it's a bit unexciting. Things that learn it include Alolan Sandslash (and regular Sandslash), Cradily, Landorus, Mamoswine and Piloswine, and Zygarde. The problem is that, with the possible exception of Zygarde, they all still have better moves like Drill Run, Scorching Sands, High Horsepower and others. Zygarde MAY want it as an alternative to Crunch or Earthquake (in fact, it could work pretty well as a bait move in place of Crunch to set up, say, Outrage), but I'm reluctant to dive into that too far until we have a better read on the final stats. For now, just don't expect it to shake up too much unless it somehow drops to 35 energy and/or has a much higher "chance" to debuff.
Alrighty, that's it for now. Trying to analyze the first metas of the season ASAP next! Until then, you can always find me on Twitter or Patreon. Or please feel free to comment here with your own thoughts or questions and I'll get back to you as soon as I can!
Stay safe out there, Pokéfriends. Best of luck as we move into the new season, and catch you next time!
Hey — I’m currently at around bottom of leaderboard, but am 1-0 in current set.
Do unclaimed sets count towards leaderboard elo at the end of season? Thinking about just not wrapping up the last set if the win should secure me nicely enough for final leaderboard update.
Currently at 3267, expecting to “end” 3283 if unclaimed sets count.
Apparently my Zygarde is rank 1 stat product wise and I got her recently enough to play her in catch cup. Its performance is alright but I'm hesitant to use my extra candy for a second move as her sims aren't too great overall. Bulldoze may help against Clodsire right now, but if taken into the real Great League it's not enough.
However with Mud-Slap the performance is decent, buildable. Can't learn the move right now however but maybe in the future? Had that ever happened?
Edit: for clarification: Zygarde wants a ground-type fast move to be viable at any level of play. Its ground-type attacks in the main series however are all charge type moves in Go.
After raiding a bunch of Origin Forme Palkia, the best one I got with Spacial Rend is 13/15/13. I know perfect IVs are ideal, but as this one is my best one and my friends don't have any to trade in hopes of a better one.
Should I invest in this one? The best non-Spacial Rend Palkia I have is 14/15/15 as well.
No deep analysis here. Just baffled people are still doing versions of this team this season.
A lovely sneasel to transfer. Honestly, no sarcasm, I was just happy to not have to throw a ball at another stupid bipolar rat.
In preparation for all the little cups next season I am thinking about building a Smeargle. Is Lock on/Flying press still the no. 1 moveset or are there more clever picks?
I was pondering on this question a bit and wanted to know based on input from the community.
Things to consider: Play! Pokemon History (Usage/Tournament winning teams) Consistency Throughout Each Season General Skill Set (what is it good at?)
I haven’t done too much research yet, but I feel it’s either Azumarill or Registeel.
Edit: meant Great League in general, not just OGL
I have 20 xl candies, currently walking it buddy for more, what cp can I start using this chunk of rock?
Hello guys!
Not here to ask about how rare or whatever but to know your opinions on how viable is registeel in this meta and next season meta, it’s a fun pokemon and finally got one with good ivs for great league so it could be an option for open great or just for theme cups?
What would you build with registeel? Been doing venusaur, azumarill and registeel but always open to do better. Also i’m in 2300 elo is not much but i started playing pogo in february so i think for few months good enough!
Open to criticism, have a good night
After achieving the rank i wanted i am bored of playing meta teams or high level teams i excel with and want to just mix it up and have fun. forget teams and meta, what are off-meta mons you guys just think are FUN to use on their own? personally i love using volt switch shadow forretress and db shadow dragonite but id love to mix it up
Reached legend for the 7th time this season, after a 3 season break, 2 where i had no time to play and an unlucky last season, where i had to regain confidence. Even tho my stats are almost the same last and current season, the outcome was vastly different. (I never tanked and played even the first sets serious) I dropped from 2700 to 2400 in the first half of Willowpower cup, and then i found a new team and climbed to 2800 and then i used this team in GL and climbed to 3067 in just 3 days. I almost gave up seeing this huge drop 10 days before season ends but then i though: „ I can do it“ and i did it :)
Feel free to mute my music or vibe :)
Used this team for open great league and climbed 400 points after losing 300 during a disastrous retro cup streak. This was a close match and I would love to hear feedback so next time it’s not so close!
I’ve only seen one other person in GL using foretress. I ended up going with rock tomb on mine and basically used it like a steelix to bait, lower attack, and force swaps. Before I tried carbink in place of foretress but found I preferred being able to wall most of Marowak and Jumps hard counters. As many of you could guess I DESPISE talonflame!
Also a thanks to previous commenters on my other post, I received a lot of great feedback and am feeling a little stronger already! Still working on move timing and move counting.
Blue circle means I win and purple X means I lose, right? I’m constantly misinterpreting it at a quick glance, feeling dumb.