Has anybody figured out the audible issues with Excession, Inversions and Look to Windward? Are there other platforms that these audiobooks are accessible through?

I created a second account with the UK website of audible. But as soon as I put my us cc info in, it failed to process the payment. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

These are the only three books left for me to listen to/read. I like listening to Peter Kenny while I read along with a physical copy of the books. Thanks!

I’d like to think that in any future adaptation they will preserve this detail and make it canon.

I'm having a re-read/re-listen to 'Surface Detail'', which came out in 2010 as commonly noted, pre-empts Black Mirror in terms of VR hellscapes, as well as the Veppers mirroring current obscenely rich tech billionaires. However, one connection is less noted.

Banks basically pre-empted what is now known in popular academic parlance as 'Surveillance Capitalism'.

My first introduction to surveillance capitalism was the 2019 book of the same name by Dr Shoshana Zuboff, which in itself is a chilling read and highly recommended. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Age_of_Surveillance_Capitalism

Surface Detail Chapter 11 explains how Veppers' family amassed wealth by essentially secretly spying on people's behaviours via games and using this information. This is the nature of surveillance capitalism now.

I was astonished to listen to this and see that once again, Banks was well ahead of his time in terms of cutting edge thinking. He sets up what became influential world leading scholarship casually in one of his books a decade ahead of the most prominent academic example. (with the caveat I'm not an expert and I haven't done a deep dive on the academic side).

Makes me wonder what he would have gotten right about the years to come.

So I am not a literary expert. I am a science student although I do read a lot and do some creative writing for table top RPGs with friends. One thing that really stands out to me about the Culture novels is how good Bank's prose is. It is some how efficient but also evocative of amazing imagery. I actually quite like the prose of Dune, I think it's very efficient writing but this comes at the expense of actually describing a scene.

I wanted to know if anyone here can point to me what it is about Banks that actually makes his writing so nice? What are his influences? Opinions from people with literary degrees would be interesting.

So I've just finished Surface Detail.

Firstly, I enjoyed it, and I think it's one of the strongest Culture novels.

But I have some questions and thoughts on a related theme...

With the Hells, I'm wondering if there's a hole in the pro-Hell argument that they act like a deterrent. The way I understand it, when you die it's not 'you' that actually ends up in Hell, is it? You die in the Real, and a mindstate copy of your personality and memories - sentient, but not you - revents in Hell.

If that's the case, what's the deterrent?

I suppose it's an appeal to your empathy and maybe ego not to condemn a version of you to Hell, but that's not the same as you ending up in Hell yourself.

Maybe we're supposed to assume the pro-Hell advocates are unreliable narrators on this point, and they want to retain the Hells for other reasons, e.g. because it's part of their cultural identify.

While I'm on the Hells topic... The Pavulean tours of Hell to scare people onto the righteous path - those unlucky souls who were held in Hell, that wouldn't actually be 'you' either, would it? You would live on in the Real - possibly with the memory of going to Hell - while a Virtual copy of you is trapped in Hell. (A bit like how Real and Virtual Chay became two diverging versions of the same person). There's no way around this unless your physical, biological body is effectively in a coma in the Real while your body's mind is in Hell in the Virtual?

Thinking about mindstates in general, I find the concept a bit strange in the sense that I'm struggling to see the point of 'backing up'. Because it's not 'you' that gets revented or continues to live many Afterlives. The original you dies a real death, it's only a copy of you lives on. Why would you care about that? It's kind of like the flipside of the Hells deterrent: what's the incentive to back up?

I suppose it might be comforting (or vanity) that some version of you lives on. One specific example that makes practical sense is that in SC they've invested all this time and training in you so they can still use a copy of you as an agent if you die (this is suggested in Matter).

I actually think there's something a bit unsettling about treating a revented or virtual sentience as a continuation of the same person. It's surely quite emotionally problematic in-universe if a person dies but a copy of them revents and continues that person's life. If you knew that person, the person you knew is really, properly dead... but it would also feel like they hadn't! You might feel torn between mourning someone and feeling like nothing had happened. This issue is hinted at with the Restoria couple.

Maybe Veppers was onto something with his scepticism as to whether the Led hunting him down was actually Led, because from a certain philosophical pov she wasn't.

It's a fascinating, Ship of Theseus style question: to what extent is a revented individual still the same person? As a revented person, are your memories really your memories? Is it even ethical to create what is effectively a new sentient life with all the emotional baggage - and trauma - of a previous life? And if that happened unexpectedly (like with Led), would it be healthier to encourage that person to think of themselves as someone new?

Anyway, it was useful to write this down to try and make sense of some of the concepts in this book. If anyone has answers or thoughts I'll be interested in reading them.

EDIT: Ok, I have my answers. First, the Pavulean pro-Hell elites lie to the people that their Real, subjective consciousness will end up in Hell, not a copy. Also, visiting Hell would make you paranoid and you might think you'll subjectively end up there even if you know it's not possible. Finally, there may be a sense of empathy and even moral obligation to avoid your copy ending up in Hell.

EDIT 2: As for backing up, there are plenty of reasons you might be incentivised to do this, from the egotistical (idea of you continuing forever) to compassionate (not leaving your loved ones without you) to legacy (continuing your works and projects).

EDIT 3: Consciousness is not transferable in the Culture. This is a world-building rule of this fictional universe. Your own consciousness runs on the substrate that is your brain; they cannot be decoupled. Your consciousness can be relocated along with your brain into different bodies, you can grow a new body around your brain, but when your brain is destroyed your consciousness ends. It's a real death, from your subjective perspective. This is established by multiple characters povs, e.g. Djan reflecting she won't know the outcome at the end of Matter when she dies, despite being backed up. Reventing is about copying a personality and memories, and treating it like a continuation of the same person - but it's not a seamless transfer of consciousness. This constraint is necessary for Culture stories to have peril; if it didn't exist, a plot to blow up an Orbital, for example, would have no stakes or tension as everyone's consciousness would transfer to a new host.

EDIT 4: I accept it's also a rule of the Culture universe that a person is considered to be a mindstate that can run on any substrate, and I roll with this to enjoy the stories Banks wants to tell. But I'm not a huge fan of it. In reality, our personality and emotions are a direct result of, and emerge from, the complex neurological and sensory processes of our bodies. It's the substrate that experiences the mind, not the other way around. Matter matters. Put a 'mind' in a non-identical body and it'll be a different person. If you have magical technology then you can hand wave all this away, but I don't like the idea that bodies - human, alien, virtual - that are just containers for a mind. It's a cool idea to tell stories, but it's not my favourite angle on exploring the human condition. I also think this 'mindstate running on substrate' concept means that real, meaningful deaths in the Culture are under recognised.

I just finished Matter and it was absolutely amazing even if the end made me want to cry. I didn't expect for the last two chapters to kill of the characters we got to know through the story one after another. First Oramen, then the ship Liveware Problem, the the drone Xuss, then Ferbin and finally Djan. And Oramen and Djan died in such horribly painful ways ! I wish Liveware Problem had a Backup somewhere but from the epilogue it doesn't seem likely. Also I wonder if Djan got resurrected from a backup, but if she did then she isn't the same person as at the end of the book. And anyway, her whole family is dead, which would be a pretty depressing thing to wake up to. The end is just so sad !

I hope the Culture or other involved thoroughly investigated what happened and hopefully managed to construct an accurate image of everything that transpired. It would be depressing if no one understands how much Djan and the others went through and how they sacrificed themselves to save the shellworld. Luckily Holse survived so he can tell them his perspective of what happened.

But this book was also full of world building for special circumstances agents and alien civilisations. Also, the Oct are incredibly stupid/gullible. They nearly caused the destruction of the shellworld. I hope they got a bit more humble after this incident. Also, it seems the Iln are just incredibly cruel for no reason.

Now I only have The Hydrogen Sonata left to read ( I already read Surface detail) and I'm feeling very melancholic that it's the last new Culture story I'll ever read. There are still all the other books written by Iain Banks but it won't be the same as the Culture stories.

“Here in an inside-out world, an inverted hollowness. Part of it. Born here. All she was, each bone and organ, cell and chemical and molecule and atom and electron, proton and nucleus, every elementary particle, each wave-front of energy, from here... not just the Orbital (dizzy again, touching snow with gloved hands), but the Culture, the galaxy, the universe... This is our place and our time and our life, and we should be enjoying it. But are we? Look in from outside; ask yourself. . . . Just what are we doing? Killing the immortal, changing to preserve, warring for peace... and so embracing utterly what we claimed to have renounced completely, for our own good reasons.”

This felt oddly pertinent in todays world. I’ve just started Player of Games and excited for the rest of the series. What’s your favorite passage from Consider Phlebas or any of the books?

Just finished it (read the entire thing over the weekend, just couldn't put the book down) and it was such a fun read! Now I want to see a poor unsuspecting GCU (with a crew, obviously) get thrown into that galaxy.

One thing I did notice was that the reading experience was impacted a bit by me having read the Culture before; as soon as the book (for example) introduced AIs as this big former/background threat I knew we were probably not going to be facing any evil AIs because that just wasn't how Banks really operated!>! (I was pleasantly surprised by the developments, of course.)!<>!And I was also anticipating that the big battle in the end would resolve itself in some manner--and it did! !<The whole thing was very recognisably M. Banks, it was great.

One other thing though: >!when do you think the reader was intended to figure out the 'secret' to the Dweller List? I personally did when that 'I was born on a water moon...' passage came up, but maybe even sooner, when they first explained the whole (no) gravity-portal connection?!<

One other other thing: he did go a bit wild with the names, though. I still have no idea how Mercatoria works - which was probably on purpose, but damn it, I love that sort of shit (the 'shit' being bureaucratic nonsense and organizational charts).

Title kinda says it all.

I generally get amused when I see these "X vs Y" sci-fi franchises on social media. Star Trek, Star Wars, Warhammer 40k, etc vs another franchise. So I usually pull out The Culture when I see people getting deep into the weeds about things. So I'm kinda just looking for examples of "You don't fuck with The Culture" moments from the books. (I've actually converted a few people into readers after engaging with them so it's on the whole been rather wholesome!)

NB: this post makes no sense, and I'm aware has multiple errors; that's the point

As always, I don't like to spend time outside of the culture. Though, it is through them, more so their interactions, that I'm able to appreciate.

The characters, of course, demmizen and himmerance Their kind of flip of the same coin; the humanity within their unhumanness The casualness in the face of absolute formality; Bourne of knowing that... There is no point, and there are more important things. Also; they're the best, so no need to pretend.

The way that the minds pull out all the stops to help. Bhoddisatva rescuing yime from the balbutian. And outside the usual moral constraints rescuing her from the NR; the image of them possibly being dead; so sad. But of course, they were not

That the diplomatic representative interfered and stepped down as a result. Raised a child. Because, of course, the most satisfying thing is to do the right thing (but only in the Culture verse, not in our own verse)

Many other thoughts: why yime so useless, Banks painting veppers so well; reading the change in cultural Zeitgeist so easily (of course the hells would become unsavoury and someone will make money from that), the Minds coming together in the house(so cool); the machinations within the machinations

As always, no-one in the Real reads The Culture. So, I come here to upload my mind state for the next revent.

Tangents welcome

Google search is failing me.

Wouldn't it be funny if the culture was actually real?

What if the whole alien things we are seeing on earth are the actual aliens of the culture. I know this sounds ridiculous but lately the more I watch about UFO's (UAP's) and what the whistleblowers of the US have said of the hearings in the US senate, keeps reminding me of the culture.

Like the latest UFO sightings I've seen, no longer are flying saucers or cigar shaped crafts instead all i see we are tiny circular drones that are just like the ones I imagined in the books look like.

then there's a "supposed" document that one of the latest UAP they caught was a mechanical AGI(Artificial Level Intelligence) or low level ASI (Artificial Super Intelligence) talked about it a a mechanical being not just some mindless machine or the reports from pilots and army base commanders that when they had encounters with said drones, these ones seem to have a sense of humor and mess and toy with the US army. Something that again reminds me of the culture's sense of humor.

I know it sounds really stupid, that is what i keep telling myself. The world in the culture is very unlikely. I mean why would most aliens look humanoid? Only thing that sounds plausible is that its like crabification or the same reason dolphins and sharks look alike although they are not related (i forgot the term when that happens) Even though that is highly unlikely.

And the culture was written by Ian Banks (may he Rest in Peace) but wouldn't it be nice if he was a SC officer or culture wanderer that was here for some decades and then he (or Contact) faked his death? And the books where all an account or warning about his society?

Anyway this was a really long stupid rant... i just really wanted to let out this really crazy crack pot idea that has been bugging me for so long and this was the only place that I felt I could write this...

I'm currently reading Matter(just read chapter 10) In Matter, Djan says that she sleeps much more than her friends from the Culture. She then has an operation that makes it so she only has to sleep a few hours. Are there any other mentions about how much people have to sleep in the Culture? Do you think every Culture citizen with the standard set of inherited Culture modifications only has to sleep a few hours like Djan after her operation?

Also, in chapter 10. A Certain Lack, Djan describes her integration in the Culture. How she slowly gets all the standard Culture augmentations. I find this chapter incredibly interesting. Do you think this could be a good representation of the standard modifications that Culture citizens have ? I'm specifically wondering this about her nerves that are described as "more like wires, shifting impulses far faster than before", her bones that are reinforced with carbon fibers and her augmented muscles. This seems very oriented for combat, so I ask myself if it's only her who asked for it.

I've just finished reading Matter, and I'm struggling to understand why the Culture recruited Djan Seriy Anaplian, a Sarl princess, as an SC agent. In Consider Phlebas, it's mentioned that there are plenty of people eager to join SC, to the point where there's essentially a lottery system, if I remember correctly. SC doesn't seem to be short on willing recruits.

If the Culture needs experienced operatives for specific missions, they can easily hire mercenaries like Zakalwe.

So what advantage does the Culture gain by recruiting a random princess from a primitive civilization as an agent?

Is it ever explained in the book?

https://bsky.app/profile/preachypreach.bsky.social/post/3lbjkkeq5ic2z

I don't quite understand the difference between the sublimed and the elder civilisations.

Are all sublimed elder civilisations ? Does becoming an elder civilisation mean subliming ?

I remember that in one of the books it was said the culture could have sublimed 8000 years ago so what is the difference between them and elder civilisations ?

If I remember correctly, the Culture says that the elder civilisations are more advanced than them and might be able to connect to both sides of hyperspace simultaneously, like the Excession.

Also, if being an elder civilisation is different from being sublimed, do you think the Culture will manage to become one one day ?

Can someone eone explain to me how FTL travel could violate causality? In terms an imbecile is capable of understanding only, please.

TIA.

I love the culture books, but let’s be honest it’s total magical thinking,nature doesn’t seem to function that way. The culture universe would only work if it was 100% AI from minds to drones. Biological entities would mess it up. It’s not our fault, evolution does that to a species. And if the universe was infinite meaning anything that can happen would,the culture would still not exist due to FTL travel impossible.

Like oh yes I take much pride in crafting the most HORRIFICALLY cringeworthy submissions on a quaint little social platform named Twitter.

And another Mind will come and snark about how their cringe is base and unsophisticated or some shit.

Haha

I'm re-reading Consider Phlebas and the culture (lol) of Vavatch Orbital strikes me as off, considering Culture Standards.

They appear to have "Generational Debt" and a working, Capitalist economy on steroids. Our resident drone, Unaha-Closp, is in obvious debt that it's working off when Horza kidnaps it.

So why is Vavatch Orbital so awful when the rest of The Culture is sublime, debt-free hippies?

Let me start by saying that I love the Culture as a setting and as a civilization. It is one of my favorite science fiction universes. I absolutely love the worldbuilding of The Culture. I truly enjoy reading online about what the Minds are capable of, how incredible Orbitals and GSV’s are, the fact that the average culture citizen can regenerate, give themselves psychedelic experiences via glanding and can change their biological sex are all incredibly interesting and captivating to me.

However much of this awe is simply not present when I am reading the culture novels. I have to say I don't really like the culture novels as much as I thought I would. Long story short I had heard about the utopian civilization of the culture several years ago and I was excited to read about a truly post scarcity civilization. This year I finally got the time to read some of the culture novels. Unfortunately I have to say I have been disappointed in my experience with the culture novels. I feel like I am not reading what really brought me to explore this series.

I want to be fully immersed in the culture and daily life of the Culture, not read about events that happen on the periphery of or outside of the Culture. I don’t want to read about the shadow side of the culture. I want to be thrown into the utopian aspects of the culture and truly see just how great life in the culture is for the pan-human species that live in it.

So far I have read Consider Phlebas, The Player of Games, Excession and State of The Art. All of these books (except for Excession) seem to focus on edge cases of The Culture instead of immersing the reader in The Culture proper and all of its utopian glory. The only one of these books I can say I liked was Excession. I say this because when I read Excession I got a better understanding of what the Culture is and how it works than in all of the other books I have read. I got to see the inner workings of the Minds and aspects of human life of the culture. However again the book focused on Special Circumstances and them dealing with the Excession.

Another thing that quickly pulls me out of my immersion when reading the novels is the fact that the average citizen (or at least the ones I've read about) seem to be relatively emotionally immature considering the hyper advanced society they are raised in. In many instances it seems like characters are often emotionally caught up in the circumstances happening to them or around them and giving responses similar to what an Earth human would give. I would expect that Culture citizens would have near total emotional mastery and would be easily able to see all of the circumstances in their life from a very objective viewpoint but I haven't seen this in any of what I've read so far. Maybe I'm being too harsh. But I truly do expect more emotional mastery and composure from the Culture citizen characters that we are reading about.

I don't want to put down the culture series because I absolutely love the worldbuilding of the Culture. But I really don't like the delivery of the Culture as told through the novels. I was expecting galaxy scale solarpunk on steroids. Are there any novels or media that fully dive into the utopian aspects of the culture, immersing the reader in just how good living in the culture really is? That is really what I am here for.

Hello! My brother is 16 years old, and his English level is B2. He asked me to give him the Culture series, after hearing me talk about it all the time. However, I’m hesitant because I’m worried the language might be a bit advanced for him. I don’t want to discourage him, especially since this is literally the first time he’s asked me for something to read. That’s why I’m asking—did you find the language in the novels difficult?

I actually dreamt about culture. OR rather set in it. Some ships had somehow stumbled upon the Dune universe and were fascinated by the Guild navigators and intrigued by society. They were deliberating if they should catch a navigator for a closer look and if they should send some SC agents to look at the spice and the sandworms.

Hi all. I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I have been thinking about Iain (M.) Banks a fair bit recently as I just finished my last Culture novel (UoW) (and I've been processing a profound sense of loss that I'll never again read a Culture story for the first time) and recently read Raw Spirit, which (for those unfamiliar) is a semi-autobiographical book and something of a love letter to his home country of Scotland and the glorious whiskies for which it is famous and which Banks, by all accounts, deeply appreciated. I have a short personal story to share.

25 years or so ago, as a somewhat pompous 17 year old, I set out to write a dissertation for my final year school English studies. The title was something to do with the subversion of literary norms in Banks' contemporary works, focusing on The Wasp Factory (of course), Whit, and, if memory serves, the Crow Road. I thought I'd take a chance and write to Banks, via his publisher, with some (probably tedious and naive, in retrospect) questions on his works, and I was delighted a couple of weeks later to receive a typewritten reply, signed in his own hand, patiently talking me through things.

There was no glory in his replying to this teenage fan; no magazine spread; no monetary reward; nothing but the simple act of helping someone to better understand his work. I like to think perhaps it brought him some pleasure, but certainly it was an act of beneficence on his part.

The letter was headed with Banks' home address (these were perhaps simpler and more trusting times...) and he and I had a few letters back and forth over the space of a couple of months. I desperately wish I still had the letters, which are long lost in multiple house moves, but I have the memory of them, and of the generosity of the man who wrote them - a kind, gentle soul with a whip smart sense of humour and a profound intellect. He was lost to us too soon, but at least we have his bountiful literary legacy.

I thought I'd share this small vignette that provides perhaps a small sliver of insight into the person who wrote the wonderful works for which we in this subreddit share a love.

And now, a question: imagine, if you will, that the Culture and its technology had been able to record a mind-state of Banks before he passed, and allowed him to be reconstituted as a Ship Mind. Which name would he choose?

I wanna see these books inspire Humanity. I have a vision of how to get to real Hollywood-level movies.

It'll start with decentralized fundraising and anonymous short-form movies (without buying the actual rights). Ultimately if we raise enough awareness and funds we'll buy the whole real rights and shoot this out of the park.

Real long term we could actually use funds to fund Science to work on actual projects to get Culture level technology faster.

Think something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ConstitutionDAO + memecoin + AI (LLM) Minds shilling on social media https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sites/truth-terminal.

I'll probably get downvoted to oblivion but if you wanna work on this - Join this discord: https://discord.gg/brNW9VwD

I just realized I'm out of culture audiobooks. Apparently they aren't all available in the US. I love audiobooks as an auditory learner. Really a bummer, I'm looking forward to excession but I can't find it..do I need to book a European vacation just to listen to it?

bonus: If you had to choose three to come back in time to help humanity in the 21st century in the form of LLMs, which ones would you pick and why?

It looks like several titles from the series will be available as audiobooks on Everand starting tomorrow, 15 November for anyone interested. Everand is a subscription service (about $12USD), and offers unlimited listening to their catalogue, unlike Audible which gives you one credit every month. I'm just getting started with the series, and I always like to mix listening and reading, so this is big for me! :)

EDIT: So I think I inadvertently lied. Seems Everand has added those titles to their catalogue, or maybe has changed their membership terms to include some previously premium titles to the list I can access. But I can only listen to so much per month? A bit frustrated now tbh and un-pausing audible lol.

Okay so I just finished Excession last night. I've read Consider Phlebas, Player of Games, Use of Weapons and State of the Art. I've seen many people put this book at the top of their list of Culture books. I honestly see why some people might feel that way. I don't. But this sort of describes my experience with it. For me, it was basically a meh story that I really enjoyed reading, which seems a strange thing to say, but I'll try and explain.

The Good:

I feel like this book is a must read if you want to read more than one or two Culture books. The world building is extremely extensive. We see many different civilizations, including ones that have left the culture. We only get the mind view from the Elenchers but we see Tier, which feels very culture like but also different.

I really loved the Affront. We finally get to see a truly alien culture and how they might interact with humans. Firstly, a species that is not humanoid whatsoever and a society built on the joy of inflicting pain and suffering.

We get a good look into the minds and how they interact with each other and pull the strings behind the scenes. The Culture is basically an anarchist state with ultra intelligent AI holding everything together. But they are not immune from greed and pride and ambition. So they have their own society that they build consensus and even conspire for their own aims, which include a benevolent yet condescending attitude towards life. "Meat" seems to be used as an expletive.

We get a full explanation of how FTL travel works in this universe. Basically its some kind of tacking between dimensions and an underlying power source that can be tapped into with the right technology. And it served the story.

I enjoyed the human part of the story quite a bit. The characters and how they came together at the end was satisfying for the most part.

One thing that I would normally be annoyed with is how long it took for the story to get going because we'd be introduced to new major characters up to half way through the story. But it didn't bother me because each new introduction fleshed out the world. It wasn't gratuitous for the most part and it was interesting. It didn't feel like the slow ramp up that it was. It was sort of like multiple vignettes that eventually came around to interact and build a main plot. I thought this was done very well.

The Bad:

I really struggled to keep track of all the ships. Basically the "Sleeper Service" was the only one I understood who it was by the end. We have all these back and forth tightbeam "emails" that I didn't realize were formatted that way for a while and at first I just rushed through them because it felt like information that wasn't meant to be understood. So I feel like I got lost on what the conspiracy was and who it was between and who was on the outs. I feel like there were likely cues on some reveals later on that I just missed. I'd turn the page and see this back and forth text and knew I'd be dreading the next few pages. It felt like school work trying to get through them and I know I'd be getting a D on the test...

!I still don't know what happened to the Elencher ships. They got corrupted and run by the Excession? But why? It seems like the Excession was reactive to whatever tried to interact with it, but I can't see the logic of how it did so. The Sleeper Service was charging towards the Excession so it sent out a wall of death in response. In final hail marry, SS sent its mind in a tightbeam at the Excession's wall of death and it backed off. But the Elencher ships didn't act aggressively towards it. They just sent probes to gather information. Maybe it just gave more information than was needed which corrupted the minds of the ships?!<

The Meh:

The story itself wasn't bad but it wasn't great either. >!The Excession itself was interesting but it was little more than a plot device. It didn't really do anything other than provide an object for people and minds to project upon and react to. Its basically the monolith from 2001 Space Odyssey... which is fine... but its kind of a worn out trope unless its developed a bit more.!<

So maybe its because of this that the story just kind of fizzles out at the end. Its building and building and building but we never get to that crescendo. >!The Byr and Dejeil arc was getting interesting and we were about to hear the tough conversation that has been building for several chapters, only to have it interupted by the bulge of the Excession coming to destroy them all. But we never return to it. We only see that Byr got his wish of becoming an Affront and that Dejeil had the baby and is living on the Sleeper Service. But we never really saw what led these people to get there from where we last saw them.!< There's a gap in time, which is totally fine, but also in the story arc itself, which is what makes it feel "meh" to me.

Likewise, the SS is on a somewhat undefined mission that has to do with >!the Excession, the Affront is barreling towards it with all the Pittance warships, we see the brave little ship: I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT IT'S NAME IS do significant but insufficient damage to the fleet, the SS's 80K fleet of its own and now it looks like they'll all be destroyed by the wave of death and in a hail marry, the SS projects its mind toward it and.... the death wave dissipates and the Excession disappears. Everything and everyone returns to where they would have been without it being there to begin with, other than some of the ships involved in the conspiracy...!<

Again, I wouldn't put any of this in the "bad" category, just that it was kind of anti-climactic at the end. It sort of felt like a short story that was almost 500 pages long if that makes sense. Easy to read (mostly). Fun ideas and concepts. A kind of iffy ending but you had fun along the way. An enjoyable story, just not among my top in the series. I'd put it above State of the Art and probably Consider Phlebas but PoG and UoW were much better stories IMO.

On to Inversions! (though I hear that's not necessarily a Culture novel?)

This what I imagine the conversation between the SC Minds went:

https://youtu.be/kCXTq-fWWio?si=ypbyj2UoFbWeroC_