I cannot say I have delved as deeply into Daoism as Alan Watts by any stretch of the imagination, but I have recently started reading about one of Alan's protege's, his birth name was Eugene Dennis Rose. Fascinating life he led whose spiritual journey goes from nihilistic/atheist - Daoism - found his calling as a Hieromonk in Eastern orthodox Christianity.

I would love to hear if anyone is familiar with him and open a discussion. Thanks for reading!

There was a discussion started but the post was deleted. Thought the community might want to continue the conversation. Here's my thoughts on the matter.

The line in question here is 當其無, which translates, roughly, to "when its without" or "when there is nothing". The last line in this chapter states 故有之以為利，無之以為用。, which translates to something like "therefore, believing having it (to be) profitable; without, believing it (to be) useful." which is another interesting concept, with the interplay between the "opposites" 有 and 無. The real word here that's useful to digest, especially in a Daoist sense is the term 無, one of the words that roughly translates to "emptiness" in English, the others being 空 and 虛, 空 indicating the "emptiness" of a "cave" (similar to the "emptiness" of a vessel), with 虛 meaning something about a tiger and a hill, I forget the metaphor, but someone who speaks the language better than me could tell you more about that one.

Now, back to 無, 無 is a "negating particle". We don't really use "particles" in English, but they're kind of like "root words" like a- meaning a negation, or non-, etc. The common negator is 不. A couple others are 非 and 沒. 無 translates (at least in my brain) more like "without" than "not, non-, etc", and can be translated as "Absence", but one of the important facets of the word, is it is used in Zen Buddhism (pronounced "mu" vs "wu" in Chinese). It is famously the key component to "the 'mu' koan" About Joshu's dog https://www.learnreligions.com/what-is-mu-in-zen-449929

Now, this is the first koan in the "Gateless Gate" (無門關) collection, and the monk "Gateless Gate" (無門慧開) famously struggled with the concept of 無 for 6 years, which led to his enlightenment. The day after his awakening, he wrote a quatrain (poem):

無無無無無
無無無無無
無無無無無
無無無無無

This quatrain inspired my own haiku (of which I'm certain I'm not original, but I've yet to see someone else claim an earlier rendition:

無無無無無
無無無無無無無
無無無無無

In chapter 2 of the TTC it states that defining the beautiful creates the ugly and defining the good creates the bad, which is obviously a reference to the forces of Yin and Yang. But this would categorize one as better or more desirable than the other. I know that the message of chapter 2 is to not define, so that things come and go naturally, yet the good and desirable, to my understanding, is balance. So having Yin/Yang be Good/Bad doesn't make much sense to me, as it creates a kind of imbalance, or at least doesn't do balance the justice of being desirable or truthful, as opposed to imbalance, which is viewed negatively in Taoism.

Could anyone give an explanation to what seems like a contradiction?

I have been on spiritual journey for couple years and i know see this hude resistance to going within

And something tells me or blocks me when im trying to go inside

When i try to connect with my inner self im always like bounced out of it

Theres things like discomfort or my brain just starts focusing on other outer things…

Idk if this is the right sub for this but yall know about things and inner workings so im hoping to get some echoes here for my struggles🙏

I am relatively new to my application of Taoist principles into my daily living. Have been debating something and am not sure how to consider the options wrt the ideas.

The basic question: How do you distinguish something that is difficult but part of your natural path vs something that really just isn't a fit. Or in other words, I am trying to embracing the idea of not forcing things into my life that don't fit with my nature but somethings i am not sure if i am hesitating because its not my nature or becuse its just hard and I am lazy.

More background. Been looking for work for a while without a lot of success. Working on ideas to tune the search but increasing thinking that to generate income, I need to do something like consulting. I don't feel confident at "selling myself" and so this transition is daunting. Part of me is saying that life isn't meant to be easy and i need to buck up and get it done. The other part is saying that "selling" just ins't me so its not my way.

Thoughts? We all must do hard stuff but when do you know that hard it really forcing?

As of recent I've quite bored and uninspired towards my daily life so I've been trying to add more things that bring me joy into my day. Things like playing guitar, putting more effort into my meals, appreciating music, going on walks.

But I wonder if this type of joy seeking behavior goes against Taoist philosophy. Is putting focus on what brings happiness drawing away from acceptance? Is it creating to much attachment to an emotional state? It feels nice to be happier but am I going about it the wrong way?

As of recent I've quite bored and uninspired towards my daily life so I've been trying to add more things that bring me joy into my day. Things like playing guitar, putting more effort into my meals, appreciating music, going on walks.

But I wonder if this type of joy seeking behavior goes against Taoist philosophy. Is putting focus on what brings happiness drawing away from acceptance? Is it creating to much attachment to an emotional state? It feels nice to be happier but am I going about it the wrong way?

The Dao doesn’t ask how, does it?

It just flows. Zhuangzi wouldn’t say, “Here’s how to be fluid.” He’d laugh and show you a fish swimming, or a leaf drifting down a river. The moment you ask how, you’re already grasping, and the Dao slips through your fingers.

To become fluid like Zhuangzi is to stop trying to become anything. It’s to laugh at the question, let it dissolve, and simply be.

The Daodejing taught me enough about healthy surrender to get me off my addictions, but I feel like I’ve been working for a long time trying to understand the balance between letting go of resentment and allowing people their free will against setting firm boundaries to protect myself and others. I don’t tend to avoid talking about issues in relationships, but I do tend towards flexing my boundaries in order to smooth things over when the discussion exposes conflicts in core values, and I tend to excuse other people more readily than I would myself. I have a lot of doubt of my perception.

“So people say ‘What’s karma about?’ Well, karma is just the automatic energy consequence of spiritual intention and spiritual decision. Well, every decision you make then affects your calibrated level of consciousness, which is a shorthand way of saying your karma. It starts first as curiosity perhaps, or hearsay. Then they find themselves automatically drawn into spiritual growth and spiritual concepts and the desire to understand them and benefit from them. And they begin to realize as they grow, they’re benefiting the world. That which you are doing is affecting everyone. The whole world benefits from it. We can prove that also with quantum mechanics, you know, the Heisenberg principle, the collapse of the wave function then begins to affect the whole field of consciousness. Every individual who commits themselves to spiritual work is benefiting all of mankind. This is an automatic consequence of his choices and decisions, because he is collapsing the potential into the actual, which is affecting the consciousness of all mankind.”

Not a Taoist but am interested. I tried different philosophies including Yoga, Buddhism, Advaita Vedant.

My practice:-

1.I don't try to observe or control my thoughts. I either accept or ignore my thoughts but don't suppress them.

2. I do control a part of my mind that is responsible for voluntary control of muscles. I do it to focus my mind too but without trying to stop the thoughts or emotions. It doesn't matter whether focus is perfect or not I ignore that and do my focusing. I use similar control method to do my work but never suppress the thoughts or emotions. I take them along in my concentration meditation or chores, exercise, gaming.

3. Sometimes a natural desire emerges to control a part of my mind and I allow it to control the parts that I don't like but I don't do it forcefully. It's like taking the audience seat and observing two sides of my mind fight each other out until the side that I wants to win ends up winning. Like I have 3 minds one observer, 1 good, 1 bad.

I have seen similar practices in Buddhism, Hinduism. What do Taoists say?

I prefer advice of those who have more than bookish knowledge of the Dao De Jing and have experienced to back up their claims or they will do injustice to both Dao De Jing and Daoism.

Hey guys. Omg I’m acc so excited rn and wanna just share it!!

Came into thsi sub for advice on channeling the Tao into my art & music. Specifically I am producing music rn and was in a rut. After reading your wonderful comments, dug into a bunch of research & did lots of journalling & notes.

I make uk dance music, and wanted to create something that explored yin & yang, embodied both light and dark. Did shadow work too , this piece was as much as a product of my own inner work and integrating my unconscious.

Was a challenge to sit down and write but after a couple days of letting it flow through me, I DID IT!! And it’s honestly my favourite piece of music I’ve ever written. I’m supposed to be asleep (it’s 3am) but am honestly so elated rn. feel like I can visualise my future just listening to it.

I became super emotional and started thanking the universe with tears in my eyes. I really put myself out my comfort zone (even doing my own vocals , learning new techniques of production) . When I listen to it, it truly feels like a union of my shadow and light, my unconscious and conscious, and I am just so fucking happy. I love Taoism so much. Thank you all . This is just the beginning!!!

i try to forgive, and forgive, and forgive. i don't think i am doing it right as i'm always letting things get to me, always forgiving my family. Do i tune people out, do i block them from my thoughts, do i continue to forgive?

Please, anything you guys have to offer. i'll watch a movie if the message is there, i'll read a book if it will help me find a better path. i do not want to lose the frail relationship that i have with my family, I just want to rebuild.

I've rarely seen posts here specifically by women or for women - I'm sure there are lots of women here, it's just we tend not to expose our womanhood online unless we have to or unless the topic is geared towards the challenges associated with our experiences.

So I had reach out to other ladies here about a Taoist-based book which deeply influenced how I interact with not only men, but everyone, and greatly improved my relationship with authority and power.

The author spent a good chunk of time as a Taoist nun with other powerful Taoist women, which is how she discovered the secrets of how to effortlessly navigate power dynamics so that you can easily get what you want and why others' wants are often ultimately aligned with our own desires (despite their claims).

It's called Unbound by Kasia Urbaniak.

If anyone would like to add other good resources for female leadership in this thread, or to discuss their experiences how Taoism empowered their experience of womanhood, please feel welcome.

There are currently eight absolutely free resources available on my website. I recently completed a fun I Ching divination module. https://qigong-with-carlos.com/i_ching

By "good", I mean is the translation and commentary philosophically and historically accurate? Are there any negatives about this book? If I only read one book on the Daodejing/Taoteching, should it be this book?

One of the very few reviews I found on this book is this, but its a locked journal article (just trust me on what I say it says): https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/rsr.17181

The reviewer says the author explains textual contradictions in daodejing by inferring Laozi meant to imply the word 'contrived'. The reviewer says sometimes, that explanation can feel like a convenient stretch. The last part of the review suggests the book is recommendable, but it's advisable to read other texts along with this book, because this book focuses more on the philosophy aspect than the book's "collocation" in Chinese religion history.

Would you agree with this review?

If you think there are more accurate books, then please feel free to recommend them to me.

Thank you all in advance.

Edit 1 (Not essential to my question. TL;DR: The reviewer is not bashing Fischer, I just didn't include most of his positive comments about Fischer and his book.): I don't want to get sued by the reviewer or anything because it seems like people think the reviewer is bashing Fischer, so, I want to clarify a few things. I mainly stated the reviewer's criticisms about the book, because that's what I only wanted to inquire about. However, the criticisms are balanced out or maybe even exceeded by positive comments, but I didn't include them before this edit. For example, in the review, the reviewer uses positive words/phrases to describe the book/author, such as "concise", "clear", "coherently constructed", and "this book is a very recommendable introduction".

Of course, I could just paste his review here. However, I won't because it may be considered piracy, and it's very long. I would rather just paraphrase and include snippets.

I was very into Taoism growing up and it has been the philosophy that makes the most sense to me overall. Additionally I was emotionally tortured for the majority of my life by my parents. Most days since I was 12 have been a fight to not end my life. What they did to me was beyond evil & I do not expect any closures or apologies. I also have been harming myself from a young age. I’m reading these Tao Te Ching quotes again and I feel like I have a chance again for the first time in such a long time. I’m haunted by my thoughts, these traumatic memories loop in my mind all day sometimes and drive me to injure myself. The self injury has become its own addiction.

I was wondering if there are any taoists in this sub who are understanding and have any advice for me. I’m willing to do whatever it takes to get better. Hard truths welcome <3

https://open.substack.com/pub/billhulet/p/a-celibate-floats-uneasily-on-the?r=25q93&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true

https://preview.redd.it/7exjsapi2y3e1.jpg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce242470ab04bce3a215892245c47a405e6db474

We have endured 2 years of obsessive texting and requests from my mother in law, which has now turned into reputation destruction and I am hated by my partners sister and other members of the family who originally loved me. It hurts.

My partner has had a chat with them and cut them off for the time being but he (& I) wonder how do we deal with this envy in a Taoist way?

My partner has a good job and I am able to stay at home with my baby for a few years which seems to be everyone’s problem with me. They expect a lot from my partner and are always angry and complaining that he/we isn’t doing more with and for them. We just want them to understand that we are busy and have a happy household and our own family.

This is a serious question that I have. What are your thoughts about a type of spiritual cultivation study that has the goal of truly figuring out whether or not one can cultivate the three treasures and ascend into a Xian?

(A Xian is an immortal, mythical being with the Taoist pantheon or Chinese folklore.)