I am ready to invest one or two months to get a PC learning from in person training, can you people let me know where I can get instructor or any classes there in the world which are authentic and may be cost-effective

Hi, I am very new when it comes to tai chi. I just started to learn the Cheng Man Ching’s 37 postures at my local tai chi club.

As I understand it this style qualifies as a sub-style of Yang style. My question is if it is a large frame form, or a small frame form?

Thank you.

u/Zz7722 's recent post inspired me to make this one.

As you all know and do, Zhan Zhuang (standing meditation) is a fundamental practice in internal arts, focusing on developing internal strength, relaxation, and body awareness.

But Yi Quan (or Da Cheng Quan - the Great Achievement Boxing) takes Zhan Zhuang to a whole different level. Grandmaster Wang Xiangzhai - the founder of Yi Quan - took Xing Yi Quan and stripped its method from most forms and techniques to only keep the very core essence of the art. He believed that Xing Yi Quan relied too much on complex patterns, distrating people from studying its true essence.

This refinement process is also being done to other internal martial arts with the likes of Mark Rasmus with his Elastic Qi Gong, or Huai Hsiang "Howard" Wang with his Prana Dynamics method. Methods that exclusively focus on Nei Gong with as least traditions, lineages, or martial arts as possible.

Because Nei Jin is really not something that is exclusive to internal martial arts. Nei Gong is applicable to any discipline. It even represents the highest level of any discipline. Whether it be martial arts, tennis, or golf, the difference between the very best is how they have internalized their craft.

Unlike popular martial arts like English Boxing, Muay Thai or Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, I believe that Taiji Quan hasn't evolved enough over the last 100 years. It has become bloated with too many traditions and lineages, as well as numerous complex and overly long forms. Forms - in particular - have been a big source of distraction. In my experience, one progresses faster with Zhan Zhuang and Jin Fa/Jin Li (partner power training/testing, shunting exercises) than with forms and Tuishou.

But I digress. Yi Quan - as a martial method - is 80% Zhan Zhuang. Hours of Zhan Zhang at a time instead of forms. No other arts emphasize on Zhan Zhuang as much as Yi Quan. Maybe some of you might be interested in a quick overview of some of their Zhan Zhuang stances to improve your practice; and make it more diverse and fun in the process. Advanced postures are on one leg or complex feet positioning.

Here is a list of common Zhan Zhuang postures in Yi Quan:

#Foundational Postures

1. Hun Yuan Zhuang (Standing in the Circle)

The basic posture where the arms form a circle in front of the chest, palms facing inward as if holding a ball.

2. Cheng Bao Zhuang (Holding the Ball)

Similar to Hun Yuan Zhuang but with more emphasis on the sensation of holding and feeling energy in an imaginary ball.

3. Wu Ji Zhuang (Neutral Stance)

A relaxed standing posture with arms hanging naturally by the sides, often used as a starting or finishing position.

#Intermediate Postures

4. San Ti Shi (Three-Body Posture)

A classic posture used in martial arts - and foundational in Xing Yi Quan - one arm extended forward with the palm facing inward, and the other arm by the side, both slightly bent. Back-legged bow stance.

5. Zhan Zhuang with Arm Variations

Arms can be positioned at various heights (lower, middle, upper) to emphasize different aspects of strength and relaxation.

6. Kai He Zhuang (Open and Close Posture)

The arms alternately expand outward and contract inward, focusing on the dynamic interplay between tension and relaxation.

#Advanced Postures

7. Fu Hu Zhuang (Taming the Tiger)

A low stance resembling riding a horse, emphasizing leg strength and grounding.

8. Shi Li Zhuang (Testing Power)

Combines slow, deliberate movements with the standing posture to explore and refine internal force.

9. Heaven and Earth Zhuang

One arm is raised as if supporting the sky, while the other is lowered toward the earth, symbolizing the connection between above and below.

10. Dragon-Tiger Zhuang

A twisting posture emphasizing the spiraling connection through the spine and arms.

11. Eagle-Spread Zhuang

Arms spread outward like wings, promoting openness and extension.

#Specialized Postures

12. Pushing the Mountain Zhuang

Arms are extended as if pushing a large object, building strength and coordination.

13. Pulling the Bow Zhuang

Mimics drawing a bowstring, with focus on lateral body alignment and internal tension.

14. Ding Shi Zhuang (Fixed Stance Postures)

Static positions mimicking Yi Quan combat stances, integrating martial intent and awareness.

Intro

And what a year!

I thought I would share how entering the fantastic world of Tai Chi has felt to me, to encourage some of the lurkers or people wondering about Tai Chi to take the leap.

When I started the journey, I was mildly overweight at around +10-15 kg my normal weight (having kids seem to do that) and extremely inflexible to the point where I worried that would be impossible to get past.

Special thanks to u/DjinnBlossoms for some great advice here alongside my own training.

Mindset coming into Tai Chi

I spent a little time exploring some Yang from videos a colleague gave me a while back, but it never really caught on. Practicing in front of a screen just does not do the same thing as in person, and nobody will correct the subtle mistakes you make, which I've later found to be extremely relevant to my own training.

I had zero martial arts training before this.

I was still curious, but admittedly also skeptical. When you search on the topic of Tai Chi, you're met with a LOT of charlatans and cheats that do not practice the 'real' thing.

It doesn't really help that as a newcomer, you cannot really tell the difference. You only know it when you see/feel it done to you (I guess you'll have to trust me on that?).

So taking the leap and showing up to training the first time, I figured I'd give it a shot and if it turned out to be "hand waving and dancing" I'd just try something else, at the time I thought about Wing Chun or Karate as alternatives.

Early days of training

I was really lucky, in hindsight, that I happened to pick a proper teacher. Our community is really small, we're reliably ~5 people training, at max 8. The primary teacher is a doctor with small kids, which results in him training with us once a week. We have another lecture taught by an advanced student, which is more focused on stretching/basics.
We practice Chen style, so a lot of lower squats and pressure on the legs hit me in the beginning.

I spent the whole December month with the advanced student, and from the very beginning it was a great workout. My legs were sore for a week and a half after my first training. The primary teacher was out of country, so I did not get to meet him before January. This matters, because the advanced student does not have the same "wow" effect in his Fajin (it's there, but he does not explode the same way).
Meeting "Sifu" was a weird, but wonderful experience. We played a little, and he did a fajin demonstration which left me on the floor gasping for breath because he wanted to show off a little. He did apologize.

But it shattered my doubts that Taiji was a mystical "bullshido" religion. It was real. From that point I haven't really looked back, and I fully committed to daily training on that day in early January.

Milestone 1 - 3 months in

Starting out, I looked at the forms and thought it would take forever. The Chen short form (18 movements) seemed manageable in something like a year of training, but I figured I needed to practice. So in January I started doing as much of it as I could remember, and asked the teacher(s) for the next "bit" after I fell off, practicing ~10-15 min every day trying to get the basic form down.
At about 3 months in, I suddenly found myself going through the broad strokes of the Chen 18 and was really happy. My more experienced self now recognizes that the devil is in the detail, and there is a lot to still perfect, but I reckon it's important to encourage our new learners by letting them have their victories. It felt really good being able to "practice" something without supervision.

In this period I also took major leaps in terms of flexibility, balance and strength. I went from being able to stretch to my kneecaps, to touching the floor in warmup. I started balancing on one leg for kicks without feeling shaky.

6 months in

While practicing the short form, I also started to blend in the longer form (Chen 74, Laojia Yi lu). As a complete surprise to me and Sifu, I managed to make my way through it unsupervised at around the 5th month mark. Most of the other students told me it had taken them years to learn. Similarly to the short form, the devil is in the detail, but being able to keep up with the bigger parts felt great.

At this point I still had no idea how to fajin practically, but I started getting a grasp of the "theory" of what we're supposed to do. At this point I also asked Sifu how to best spend my precious 15-30 minutes of evening training, and he nudged me toward focusing on Zhang Zhuang. At this point Zhang Zhuang felt like fire burning my legs to crisp, and keeping posture was incredibly demanding.
But I trust Sifu, so I started trying to stand daily. First 10 minutes, then 15, then 20, then finally 30. But it still burned.

At around 7ish months something happened, and I started to understand how to "let go" of some of the weight and twist the thigh inward when standing Zhang Zhuang. It caused a massive relief.

1 year mark (today)

I'm okay with things taking time. I figure I'll take 10 years to get maybe sort of okay at Taiji, but so far I'm loving the journey.

I've been refining a lot of the fundamentals over and over, trying to focus more and more on Song Kua (releasing the hips, feeling the tendon lines in the hips when moving in a circular "infinity" structure) in my form and practice, and trying to feel Fajin. It's there in some movements, in others I struggle.
I keep doing Zhang Zhuang daily, and try to fix my left foot (I can feel gravity a lot better in my dominant right side, it's a stretching problem on the left side and little by little it gets better) and to minor adjustments to the form.

I reckon a big part of Taiji we do not discuss here, is how much stretching really enables the flow of Fajin. Going from a completely rigid body to a little looser, the difference is extremely noticeable in my kicks.

I've lost a lot of weight, my body feels lighter, I've better control, my breathing is deeper and more natural and my health is better across the board.

Thank you to this community, you're a small but important part of my day. Thank you for sharing your passion of this fantastically deep system.

And if you read the whole thing, thank you for your attention!

I came across a few anecdotes that said that Zhan Zhuang Practice for them was incredibly difficult, even painful, I think this was referring to what the students of Mizner and Liang Dehua were doing. In my own very limited experience (my Zhan Zhuang practice is mostly 10-15 min sessions at warm-up when I was training in Huang Xingxian's lineage), I never found it to be particularly uncomfortable or challenging. Am I missing anything?

EDIT: This is one example of someone commenting about his training with Mizner and talking about the pain he experienced from about 1:00 onwards -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBOAQdtTzoM

Just from observation, it seems like Yang style practitioners are the only ones that teach about chi cultivation and show internal skill.

That's not to say that other styles are bad, but whenever I see Chen style displayed or spoken about, it's almost entirely about externals (be that physics, mechanics, or even fascia which is still external). I never see Chen style discuss building the dan tien or moving chi in the body as if it's a real substance.

So I'm wondering if Chen style (or others like Wu or Sun?) believes in chi in the same way that Yang style does.

Another interesting post from Qian Kun Xinyi Taiji School: https://www.facebook.com/share/dAqCNMVZseTwvdHX/

By Master Huang Renliang, disciple of Master Zhang Yu, inheritor of Yang family Taijiquan Wu Huichuan lineage

(English translation be Erik Zhang, with permission from Master Huang Renliang)*

The Yang family ancestors summarized Taijiquan practice as "conscious movement" of the human body, which is truly a brilliant concept. From my direct experience of being connected with Taijiquan for over half a century, if one can deeply understand the true meaning of "conscious movement," it would be the most ingenious interpretation of Taijiquan practice. The Yang family manual describes "conscious movement" as:

"Movement brings awareness, motion brings perception.

Without movement there is no awareness, without motion there is no perception.

Movement at its extreme becomes motion, perception at its fullness becomes awareness.

Motion with awareness are easy, but movement with perception are difficult.

First seek conscious movement within yourself; when you embody it, then you can understand others.

If you seek to understand others first, you risk losing yourself.

One must understand this principle, and then you will understand jin (懂劲 - dong jin)."

Understanding jin (懂劲 - dong jin) must be sought through mastery, and mastery comes from diligent practice and deep comprehension. Form practice is seeking to understand oneself, pushing hands is seeking to understand others. When you know yourself and know others, then you truly know both sides. "Conscious movement" is the skill of listening to force. Listening does not refer to hearing with the ears, but rather feeling with the mind.

Form practice requires understanding one's own use of force and qi circulation through movement - this is the practice of knowing oneself. Two-person pushing hands requires sensing the opponent's rhythm of substantial and insubstantial through adhering, sticking, connecting, and following (粘黏连随 - zhan nian lian sui) - this is the practice of knowing others. When you know both yourself and others, you can fight a hundred battles and win them all. The skill of knowing others in Taiji pushing hands, under the conditions that both parties' arms must "adhere, stick, connect, follow, not abandon, not resist," does not rely on one's own strength but rather borrows the opponent's power and moves according to them. One must observe carefully to sense the opponent's rhythm of substantial and insubstantial - this is called listening to force.

Regarding "conscious movement," movement brings awareness, and motion brings perception. In Taijiquan pushing hands, one must calm the mind to clearly perceive every movement of the opponent. The purpose is to understand the situation and anticipate the opponent. To anticipate the opponent, one must track and explore in a state of not abandoning, not resisting, not avoiding, and not escaping. Effective tracking requires hiding oneself while exposing the opponent, achieving a state where others don't know us, but we know others - this is the true meaning of "abandoning self to follow others."

Taijiquan pushing hands cannot be separated from the contact between both parties' arms. Under the conditions of adhering, sticking, connecting, and following, one can perform the circular movements of Peng, Lu, Ji, An (ward-off, roll-back, press, push). "Abandoning self to follow others" is the core requirement of two-person pushing hands, with the key being to follow without abandoning in a state of neither too close nor too far.

In pushing hands, what is promoted are adhering, sticking, connecting, and following - called the "Hands of four skills." What is forbidden are pushing, pressing, abandoning, and resisting - called the "Hands of four sicknesses." In performing the circular movements of Peng, Lu, Ji, An, one should manifest the "Hands of four skillsW while avoiding the WHands of four sicknesses. For beginners in Taijiquan pushing hands, it's difficult to avoid the four sicknesses, so they must practice to make their touch light, relaxed, and gentle, using intention rather than crude force, striving to move according to others to avoid developing these sicknesses. Abandoning self to follow others is not an easy task.

Taiji pushing hands is a paired practice between two parties - it is training, not competition for victory. One should not rely on personal strength to contest with others, as pushing hands that uses forceful strength is merely the courage of the common person. Taiji pushing hands should be a contest of wisdom and strategy, not of force. One must recognize timing and position to act according to circumstances, only then can one borrow the opponent's force to counter-attack. The key still lies in the ability to understand others.

To understand others, one must first follow others. Only by following others can we understand them. Understanding the enemy's situation requires skillful reconnaissance to gather information. Under the condition of thoroughly understanding the enemy's situation, one can formulate correct strategies and tactics to effectively attack the enemy while maintaining an undefeated position. The only way to reconnoiter the enemy's situation is through abandoning self to follow others. Following others is not blind following; it must be flexible in response. Following others must still come from oneself, as Wang Zongyue's manual states: "Although it is about abandoning self to follow others, many err by abandoning what is near to seek what is far - miss by a hair, err by a thousand miles."

The concept of abandoning self to follow others also embodies the Taiji principles of "non-self" (无我 - wu wo) and "non-action" (无为 - wu wei). Only in non-self can we find true self, only in non-action can we accomplish everything. Without letting go, we cannot gain; when we let go, we gain - small letting go brings small gains, great letting go brings great gains. We should follow the principle that "clinging to self leads to stagnation, following others leads to vitality," and understand the true meaning of abandoning self to follow others.

All movements in Taiji practice are about relationships. In pushing hands, while abandoning self to follow others, following others must also come from self. Within non-self lies the true self. Taiji pushing hands should follow the principles of "adhere, stick, connect, follow, don't abandon, don't resist." Abandoning self to follow others emphasizes "adhering" and "sticking," while following others from self emphasizes "connecting" and "following." Thus, abandoning self and coming from self form a relationship between passive and active approaches, aiming to achieve the goals of using softness to overcome hardness, leading into emptiness, and using four ounces to deflect a thousand pounds.

The two-person pushing hands practice is an essential content in Taijiquan training. Its purpose is to cultivate an extremely sensitive perceptual skill, training the ability to know others based on knowing oneself - it is not a competitive match where two people wrestle with force. If Taijiquan pushing hands is made into a competitive event, under the psychological state of seeking victory and competing for championships, it will inevitably lead to forceful pushing and wrestling, which violates the traditional principles of Taiji pushing hands, leaving only regret for the development and inheritance of traditional Taijiquan!

Today many practitioners are enthusiastic about Taijiquan pushing hands, but most engage in forceful pushing or wrestling, paying no attention to adhering, sticking, connecting, following, yielding to others, and the techniques of leading to emptiness and using four ounces to deflect a thousand pounds, thus corrupting the rules of Taijiquan pushing hands. In this era of Taiji's widespread development, later waves should push forward the earlier waves - the inheritance and promotion of traditional pushing hands arts should advance to the next level.

I am going be in LA area the week of 9th Dec. If anyone from LA want to meet up for a friendly chat, to exchange ideas or just to practice together, let me know.

I do Yang style myself though my school emphasize on strong foundational practices to prepare for martial applications. We also do traditional neigong in order to generate internal power through pressurized qi. I am just a beginner though so have only scratched the surface of our practice lol. Happy to meet with other practitioners to learn from each other.

If my teacher is the student of the teacher who is generally recognized as the founder of the system, of which generation am I a member? Second or third? I have not ever been able to figure out how the system works, traditionally. Like, that makes me a grandson, but which generation? Thanks for your thoughts.

Hello everyone,

For those of you who cannot easily access Taiji in your area, I run live classes via Zoom every week. You can join from your home or anywhere you want! Feel free to msg me. Everyone should be able to access Taiji and its amazing benefits!

Wuhao style Taiji ☯️

Youtube has been knocking it out of the ballpark as far as serving me interesting videos to watch. This teacher showed up a while ago, but I didn't really pay any attention to her. She's a great teacher. Here's something on fascia that popped up today for me that is a good demonstration:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHfxX4WUXf8

So as alot of the internal arts martial artists here understand the path. We all start from learning Fa Jing. And then we start to evolve that into “song” which is connecting the entire bodies structure together into effortless strength like stretching.

For me it feels like the inside of my body is empty before connecting to the energy networks like the Qi in your fascia to the qi in your marrows.

How do you guys approach “song” and implement it?

https://reddit.com/link/1gs8tcq/video/nshrarvq751e1/player

Men approached. Curious. "What's that?" one asked.
"Tai Chi," I said.
They watched a moment. "Can we try?" another asked.
"Sure," I said.
Ten minutes.
"Can it fight?" one asked. "Like a martial art?"
I nodded. "Yea."
"Show us," another said. Eyes eager.
"Martial arts have many paths," I said. "Tai Chi offers different journeys." Tai Chi Beast

To discuss qi-based practices, we need to to first mention the three channel systems from Traditional Chinese Medicine, a good reference will be A Manual of Acupuncture by Peter Deadman if you want to delve deeper into it. The three systems are 1. The Twelve Primary Channels (or the twelve regular meridian systems) 2. The Twelve Sinew Channels, this is basically the connective network that made up of fascia, sinews, ligaments and other soft tissues that are basically located on top of the twelve primary channels. 3. The Eight Extraordinary Vessels, the well known Ren Du channels etc.

As far as I know, most qigong systems work on the Twelve Primary Channels/Meridian (some also work on Ren and Du). According to TCM theory, the “qi” that run in the twelve primary channels are Ying qi, nutritious qi that maintains health and promote growth, and Wei qi, protective qi which maintains the immune system against diseases. The twelve primary channels transport and distribute Ying and Wei qi which are essential for maintaining human life. And this is also the basic reason why qigong could help healing diseases and sickness that are caused by blockage/damages of meridians.

We can also see now why most qigong are not useful for martial applications since they are working on body system and mechanic that are not related to power generation or movement. For a qigong/neigong that will hep with martial art application, it must works on the the Sinew Channels. Only systems that can pressurize and energize the fascia/tendon/ligament and other soft tissue will be useful for direct power generation.

Finally just to briefly touch on the Eight extraordinary vessels, I will quote a saying by Li Shizhen, one of the greatest TCM doctor in history, “Only the immortality cultivators make use of the eight extraordinary vessels”. So if the qi system can energize and run through the eight extraordinary vessels, then this is where the supernatural and real woo woo stuff can happen. Since I don’t have experience on this channel system yet, I will leave it at that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8vvtBSWDQs&t=8s

Hello! Very long medical story short, I suffer from chronic nausea, dilirium, and- now- PTSD and anxiety (in the form of a fear of medical facilities and what appears to be some sort of agoraphobia, as well as a generalized anxiety disorder- usually spurred by fears of my nausea or states of delirium).

Mayo Clinic had recommended that I persue Tai Chi as a form of healing. I've purchased and read about half of the Harvard Medical School Guide to Tai Chi, by Peter M. Wayne. It's given me five decent forms and some warm ups to do, which gives me a solid half our exercise.

I wanted to seek some more general advice, however, when it came to perusing and learning Tai Chi for the sake of healing my mind and body. Is the book I've chosen a good one? What should I focus on with my practices? Where should I go once I've gotten the five forms in the book down? Any and all advice is welcome.

Also, since I imagine this'll come up, the most common advice I saw at a glance was "get a teacher". The best advice, I'm sure, but as I can't really leave my house, I can't quite find a teacher (beyond YouTube videos, of course).

I apologize if this question is asked frequently and I simply failed to find the other posts similar to my own.

I'm looking at the various Tai Chi schools in town, and one offers this Wahnam approach, that I never heard of and seems pretty niche when googling. A couple others seem to refer to Patrick Kelly , who barely comes up if I search in this subreddit.

Do you know anything about them?

Should I rather go for more established styles, since they are also offered around here?

(I also posted in r/taichi, sorry if you see this twice)