I'm planning to do a bosmer archer playthrough and need some lore help for rp reasons. What are your thoughts on a bosmer worshipping Auri-El over Y'ffre? I know bosmer worship Y'ffre as their main god, but what about Auri-El? I know they claim descendance from him, but would it be "normal" for a bosmer to prefer to worship Auri-El over Y'ffre? Also, I feel that if I did rp as a champion of Auri-El would it be reasonable to do a stealth archer?

I. Preface

The history of the Aurbis is one of cycles and polarities. It is a story of the Dreamer’s search for self, and it is a story of the lines drawn in that search.

The IG Altmeri cosmogonic text “The Heart of the World” begins with Anu. The story moves to Anuiel and Sithis. It then moves to Auriel, who the Nords call Ald son of Ald, and Lorkhan, who the Nords call Shor son of Shor. The High Elves’ story tells of the warring that happened in the Dawn Era between the armies of Auriel and Lorkhan, and it culminates in what could be viewed as a pyrrhic victory for Auriel.

Both Auriel and Lorkhan were leaders. Both had their camps of supporters, and both were defended by champions. It is these champions I wish to explore in this essay.

II. Trinimac and Tsun

“Finally Trinimac, Auriel’s greatest knight, knocked Lorkhan down in front of his army and reached in with more than hands to take his Heart.” —The Heart of the World

“…we also remember the Dead Gods (Shor and Tsun) who fought and died to bring about the current world…” —The Divines and the Nords

Michael Kirkbride’s OOG text “Shor son of Shor” tells of a shifting between the shield thanes of chiefs Shor and Ald: respectively, Tsun and Trinimac. Both characters are champions of leaders with rightful claims to by lawful authority rule the world. Shor, who the Mer call Lorkhan, is the spirit who conceived of the Mortal Plane. Ald, who the Mer call Auriel, is the spirit who accepted proffered governance of Mundus. Consequently, both Tsun and Trinimac are rebels, as each shield thane are opposed to a rightful chief. But, as with Jekyll and Hyde, the shifting between the two does not negate the reality that they are one.

What marks the shift between Tsun and Trinimac, since they are in fact one strong god? It is (dis)loyalty.

I believe Boethiah is the black line between Tsun and Trinimac because she is the spirit of dissent, the strong god’s internal debate between loyalty to Shor or Auriel and reckoning with the claims of each leader. In the war of the Dawn Era, Trinimac sways himself to Lorkhan’s side, thinking that maybe he was right to conceive of the Mortal Plane since there they can last and be strong, and shifts to Tsun; Tsun sways himself to Ald’s side, thinking he’s right to seek to end the cycle and begin anew since in Mundus there is doubt, death, and weakness.

III. Judgment of the Strong God

“Any of these words were enough for the treason-mark, and traitors were only met with banishment, disfigurement, or half-death.” —Shor son of Shor

In the Dawn Era, when not everything is fixed, it’s impossible to say how many times the shifting occurred. And it’s a period when ideology has skin, which is to say that as one thinks so is one seen. The strong god had shifted in the Dawn Era, each time crossing a line is (dis)loyalty to one leader or the other, and the last time he did so was in an act of forswearing fealty to Shor and proving to one and all that he declared for Auriel; the strong god knocked down Lorkhan and removed his Heart.

The House of We, the camp of Ald and his chieftains, imposes banishment, disfigurement, and half-death as penalties for traitorous spirits; these penalties Shor acknowledges and accepts. The strong god is guilty of assassination and treason, and he is judged.

Tsun is dead (because the last time the strong god crossed the line was in leaving Shor’s camp) and is no longer in the world; he exists only as a memory of himself by the Whalebone Bridge in Sovngarde, where he is fated to challenge all spirits and ensure only those more fit than himself for well-earned welcome can join the fellowship of honor in Shor’s hall, from which he is banished.

But Trinimac’s treason against Auriel is not forgiven, and the disgraced champion must bear penalty and Penitent. He is disfigured, his golden skin turns green and once-perfect features erupt with tusks and horns. Trinimac the Aedroth is banished from the House of We, but, unlike the dead shield-thane, the disgraced knight is not gone from the world.

But he is changed.

IV. Mauloch

“Trinimac, enraged by his failure, was reborn in blood as he sliced open his own chest, tearing the shame from his spirit. Mauloch, the God of Curses, rose from the ash and cursed Boethiah for his malice.” —Mauloch, Orc-Father

The disgraced knight tears from himself the spirit of dissent and those ideas he’d considered in his shamefully treasonous moments of loyalty to Lorkhan. He tears from himself these thoughts—the spirit anon called Boethiah—and rejects it as being not of him. If you will, he calls it daedroth (“not-an-ancestor”).

Boethiah is the un-ancestral spirit who uses whatever means to reach her ends. Deceit, conspiracy, plots of murder, assassination, treason, and rebellion are but tools for her to achieve victory, and, as she indicates to the Last Dragonborn, she has no use for honor. This is who she is because this is who the strong god asserts he is not. The disgraced knight rises, no longer called Trinimac. He is Mauloch.

Banished and disfigured for his crimes, the disgraced knight announces who he is by proclaiming what he believes: strength, loyalty, forthrightness—the Code of Mauloch. He demands this from himself and from those who follow him.

The Mer who accept Mauloch’s Code as their sure guide to light their way in the world become the Orsimer.

The Mer who accept the teachings of Boethiah, that even so-called dishonorable tools useful in achieving victory are not to be cast aside, follow her prophet eastward and become the Chimer—anon Dunmer.

V. Malacath

“Is Mauloch the Aedra different from Malacath the Daedra, or are they a single entity, cast out by both groups of Divines? No one can agree as to the truth of this matter—not even the Orcs.” —ESO Loading Screen: Shrine of Mauloch

What is the distinction between Mauloch and Malacath? It is the line drawn by perspective.

Tsun is dead. The strong god is not acknowledged by the Nords, except that his memory is placed outside the hall of Shor. Trinimac is exiled from the House of We and disfigured. The strong god is not acknowledged by the Altmer, except as a cautionary tale of the danger of daedric (“not-ancestral”) influence. Mauloch curses rejects the daedra, who in turn reject him as not one among their number. The strong god is not acknowledged by the powers of Oblivion, except as an outcast many times over.

And what of the strong god’s followers? The Orsimer are treated as they are named: pariah.

On and on it goes throughout the Eras of history. Only in Valenwood, where the Spinners continuously bring the past into the present, is Mauloch recognized as the disgraced knight by the Bosmer and Wood Orcs. But the Bosmer may know Mauloch as formerly Trinimac, but they have no place in their hearts for him, and even their preferred Z’en is diminishing by the Second Era. Elsewhere on the continent the strong god’s story, and consequently that of the Orsimer, is one of rejection and anathema from seemingly every side. And the strong god becomes as well the patron of the spurned and ostracized. He is cursed and in turn he curses. He is denigrated and in turn he glowers. The Orsimer are robbed and assaulted, and he holds fast to those grudges.

Where the story of Mauloch the disgraced knight bearing Penitent, is not told, the only remaining story is of Malacath the shameful, wrathful outcast.

(This is just something I thought of last night, I’m more than willing to be proved wrong if there’s something I’m missing.)

As I understand it, the distinction between Aedra and Daedra is not inherent. They were separated due to their role in the creation of the world - the Aedra were those tricked by Lorkhan into trapping themselves in the Mundus, and the Daedra remained in Oblivion. Trinimac was a member of that first group. He fought against Lorkhan, tore out his heart, etc. We know that pretty conclusively. It is in every legend, as a certain Camoran would say.

But then how is Malacath a Daedra? If we accept that Malacath is Trinimac pre-Boethiah, then there is a major problem: Malacath somehow escaped Mundus, which should not be possible. The whole point of the Mundus is that it’s a trap. Even Auri-El couldn’t escape. Hell, even Anui-El couldn’t help them. The best he could do was give Auri-El a bow.

I do not think it’s reasonable to assume that any Aedra - let alone Malacath - was able to escape the Mundus. I think it’s much more possible that Malacath and Trinimac were always different spirits, and the Orcs are just coping and seething. What happened to Trinimac, I have no clue.

Aren't animal diseases fairly rarely transmitted to human, unless you also count insects as carriers? Why can't our character catch a cold or something instead?

Here’s an improved version with corrected grammar and flow:

By “rebellion,” I don’t mean “people taking up arms and planning attacks on the ruling power.” Rather, I envision a more subtle but dangerous undercurrent of disapproval, one that could eventually lead to rebellion. Not out of compassion for the invaded races like Men and Bosmer, but more out of fear—fear of losing the war and facing extermination.

If this were a dialogue, it might go something like:

Altmer 1: “I know we hold advantages over humans and their shortsightedness, but still, what if we lose?”

Altmer 2: “Why would we?”

Altmer 1: “Because they have the numbers. They reproduce far faster than we do, and they’re disturbingly inventive. We rely too heavily on magic and outdated tactics. Even if perfected, it may not be enough.”

Altmer 2: “Then what? There’s no way back.”

Altmer 1: “Exactly. The Thalmor are too proud for their own good. If we lose, there won’t be a Fourth Dominion. Maybe… there won’t be any of us left at all.”

Thanks! 🧝🏻‍♂️

So i know there are some stories of the massacre and pillage the Aldmeri Dominion armies did to the Imperial City.

I also know there's some implied desire of exterminating humanity by the Thalmor, not sure how fully canon it is; if they plan to do it solely by unraveling the world or actually getting their hands dirty.

Knowing all that, what do you think were the conditions of the people under Aldmeri occupation; i.e. southern Hammerfell (Rihad, Taneth), Western Colovia (Anvil and Kvatch) as well as the banks of the Niben (Leyawinn, Bravil).

Some were conquered earlier. Some were conquered later. Do we know / can guess the kind of living condition under occupation? Was the Progrom a thing the entire Dominion did or just when they reached the Imperial city and thought they won?

I was just wondering what the roles and duties of treethanes are. Are they nobles or appointed figures and so they still exist?

I posted this in r/skyrim, but I realized it might be better here.

I want to name my character "(Name) of Mournhold"

I apologize if this is a super dumb question. I know you can play however you want, but I like to really immerse myself by generally following the naming customs of each race I play. The reason I ask this is because I've never seen a dark elf with the "of city/country" suffix. I almost always see a first and last name, if they have anything after a first name.

At the beginning of the game, I enjoy the titles of Ralof of Riverwood and Lokir of Rorikstead. The reason I would like to name a dark elf "of Mournhold" is because I started looking into Dunmer lore and it's pretty overwhelming on what each surname entails. Being from one of the biggest cities in Morrowind seems like less of a commitment.

TL;DR - Is it lore-accurate at all to have a dark elf who would be known by his home city instead of his family name?

And what do they measure it in? I doubt that they measure it in Celsius or Fahrenheit or Kelvin. Do they even measure temperature in any way other than "hot", "warm", "cold" and "freezing"? Do thermometers even exist in Tamriel? I have so many questions and so little answers...

we know in the elven and nordic pantheon that akatosh is auriel and he is the enemy of the humans, so isnt a bit weird that he only grants them the power to use thuums instead of his elven followers?

The Legend of Talos the Man- The Shouting Down of Svatomir
By Lennald the Tuned-Tongue, Skyrim's Most Beloved Bard

From the city of Bruma, perched high among the Jeralls, did Count Svatomir Throne-Sitter reign. Within the Count's court, the skalds and bard sung often of the many and manifold exploits of General Talos. Reclining upon his throne, listening to one such tale, Svatomir did boldly ask:

"Of this Talos we have heard much, but we have not yet heard his Voice with our own ears. If he did indeed Shout down Gorvund Blood-Mane and his warriors at Sancre Tor, as the stories tell, would not the winds of Kyne have carried whispers of his Voice here, to Bruma? Would we not have felt the Jeralls tremble and quake?"

The next day, envoys from the Imperial City appeared before the gates of Bruma, requesting an audience with the Throne-Sitter. They carried with them a message: King Cuhlecain was soon to mount the Ruby Throne. They bid Svatomir to pledge his obeisance to the new emperor, lest he wish to challenge the mighty General Talos. By way of reply, Svatomir did boldly say:

"I have not yet heard the Voice of Talos. If Cuhlecain wishes me to rise and bend the knee to him, let the General come and Shout me from this throne. Elsewise, Bruma shall remain free."

Rising to Svatomir's challenge, Talos northward journeyed, and appeared before the gates of Bruma, which were opened to allow his entry. Into the great hall of Castle Bruma he bounded, coming before Svatomir, perched upon his throne.

"Talos Stormcrown! At last we meet!" Svatomir greeted the General.

Talos stood, as silent as the grave-fields of Falkreath.

"Much have I heard of you and your deeds. My skalds sing your praises. Speak, I wish to hear your Voice with mine own ears!"

Talos stood, as silent as the grave-fields of Falkreath.

"Are you a mute, boy?" Svatomir angrily questioned. "Speak! Let us be deafened by your thu'um!"

Talos stood, as silent as the grave-fields of Falkreath.

"Speak, boy!" Svatomir furiously demanded.

At last, speak Talos did, but only a single word.

This one single word boomed throughout the hall like a thunderclap, deafening all that heard it. The fire raging in the Hall's hearth was suddenly extinguished, blown out like a candle. All of Bruma shook. A house near the chapel collapsed, crushing the family that resided within it. Beyond the city's walls, the mountains quaked. The surface of a frozen pond shattered like a broken mirror. An invisible force of immense strength plucked Svatomir from his throne, shattered the gilded seat to splinters, and cast him, as if from a catapult, into the wall of stones at his back.

Heard the Voice of Talos, Svatomir finally had. With a shattered spine, no longer was he Svatomir the Throne-Sitter, nor would he ever bend the knee, for he could no longer stand. Thenceforth, he would be known as Svatomir Shattered-Spine. Flat on his back, paralyzed, did Svatomir offer his fealty to General Talos.

So I have been thinking why haven't the orcs in the different strongholds attack parts of Skyrim be it villages or go and attack caravans or even be bold enough to try banding together to sack a hold or offer mercenary service to either side? Because if they did they could get finances to use for orsinium and try to expand on the small kingdom. I only thought about all this now and they feel really left out or unused potential. Thoughts? (:

Silly question! I’m also assuming there wasn’t a convenient hangar bay in Sarthaal that they could use to just wheel it out.

Does Ancano have any particular reason not to send the Eye elsewhere? Surely teleportation magic has its limits…

I was doing the Hircine quest in Skyrim, and was wondering how common the disease/blessing is. If a guy went up to a civilian or guard and told them they were a Werewolf, would they be believed?

This is mainly putting out potential speculations on how the Thalmor could be aiding the Stormcloaks in their goal to prolong the Civil War. I'll begin with the explanations of my theory based on 4 points/sources, which are the Thalmor dossier on Ulfric, a quote by Hadvar and the appearance of Elenwen at Helgen, including the cut content, and Niranye.

So what kind of aid are we talking about? Well, as it stands, my guess is intel and goods. None of these would really leave any traces that ties them to the Thalmor explicitly and perfectly falls in line with the sort of indirect aid that would prolong the Civil war.

As should be well known by now, the Thalmor dossier on Ulfric states:

Ulfric becoming generally uncooperative to direct contact

and

so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed

On the first quote, it is typically one of the points used by Stormcloak supporters to dispute his being a Thalmor asset. Typically the argument is that he is uncooperative, which is a bit of a selective reading to me. My interpretation of this line is that he doesn't want to meet the Thalmor personally, and realistically he is the only person who can meet anyone from the Thalmor without his cause falling apart. Whether or not he is genuine in his cause, or how much of a willing asset he is for the Thalmor, I'm not going to dispute because it would be beside my point. The crux of my point lies in how it doesn't point blank say he's uncooperative to contact, which means it's possible he does indirectly contact them. What form this may take is up to debate since nothing else in the game is found regarding this, but with this indirect contact, he is certainly able to receive intel from the Thalmor.

Next, the quote from Hadvar:

 A masterstroke by General Tullius! He's only been in charge here for a few months, but he's turned things around for the Empire. We've been trying to catch Ulfric since the war started, but he always seemed to slip through our fingers... like he knew we were coming. This time, the General turned the tables on him.

So as has been established by other members of the subreddit, the war has actually been going on for a while even prior to 4E201, given that there are several older Stormcloak veterans in the game. What I don't know for sure is what he meant by "since the war started", as that could mean since the start of skirmishes with Stormcloaks in Skyrim or only after Torygg was killed. Regardless, I want to focus on the point of "he always seemed to slip through our fingers... like he knew we were coming". When these sorts of things happen once or twice, sure, maybe the guy is really lucky or smart enough to foresee it, and certainly, Ulfric isn't stupid. But to consistently do such a thing for months, you gotta have at least some sort of precognition that it will happen to narrowly avoid capture several times. Which I believe is the result of Thalmor intel on Imperial ops being leaked to Ulfric. As the Thalmor ambassador to Skyrim, Elenwen would certainly be privy to such information regarding Imperial movement in Skyrim. The one hangup I had with this quote was that later on, he says that Ulfric surrendered meekly. Ralof passes it off as being outnumbered 5:1 and not wanting to risk their lives, which while true that Ulfric values the lives of his men, I find it hard to believe that he won't just shout his way out of the ambush with his men behind him. Surrendering is not in the style of Ulfric in the least.

So how did he get caught? This, I don't have any sort of evidence to offer. As we know, Tullius also hates the Thalmor and doesn't trust them. Maybe he eventually caught on to there being some sort of connection between the Thalmor and past failed attempts to capture Ulfric and simply stopped sharing info with them. Based on the cut dialogue he has with Elenwen in Helgen:

Do you know my guest, Ulfric Stormcloak, Jarl of Windhelm, once a candidate to Skyrim's throne, traitor of the Empire? If you want Ulfric alive, you'll have to take him by force!

The mocking tone of "Do you know my guest, Ulfric Stormcloak" certainly seems to suggest he's suspicious if not aware of some sort of connection between them. But given that this is cut content, it's certainly up to interpretation for you to accept. My explanation for her presence at Helgen is that most likely she found out that Tullius isn't in Solitude anymore, meaning he's out to capture Ulfric on a raid she didn't know about, so she leaves to chase after him and only manages to intercept them at Helgen, where she comes from the north gate, the closest to Haafingar.

And now, Niranye. I'll preface that my thoughts on her are extremely speculative, as the only thing that's shown about her in game is that she has ties to the Thieve's Guild. She's easily the shadiest character in the whole of Windhelm, with the accompanying shady connections. She certainly fits the profile of the sort of person who could work with the Thalmor at least. As an Altmer, she's already scarcely welcome in Skyrim, and yet she chooses to live in Windhelm, possibly the most if not second most unwelcome of places to Altmers in all of Skyrim. Why indeed is an Altmer allowed to live in the walls of Windhelm and above board too? She passes it off as "knowing the right people". And who are the right people that could allow a hated ethnicity to live unharmed in a city that hates them? Why of course, the Jarl himself. To be clear, she never states who the right people are, but who else has the authority? She would also be the perfect avenue for the Thalmor to send material aid to the Stormcloaks as a merchant in their city with purportedly low prices. Curiously, she owns a key to a safe in her house, which is named "Darkwater Pit Key". But if it's the key to the safe in her house why is it named that? And where did Ulfric get caught? Near Darkwater crossing. Was he on his way to pick up a drop (espionage term)? And who could've been the one to do the drop? If Tullius found out about the Thalmor connection, then it's quite likely he would know where the drop location is as well. If he's being secretive about his connections with the Thalmor, he also wouldn't bring a large retinue of guards with him to the drop site. So that much kinda lines up with what's said to have happened. Granted, this could certainly just be a mistake, or leftovers from prior storyboarding that didn't make the final cut, so we would never know.

So thoughts? Is this a huge stretch? Of course, I don't mean to say that my speculation is definitely true, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.

Hi, I am having a headache trying to understand some of the implications for the AE Quest "Immortal Coil" I would appreciate if anyone could help me understand better, I know many dont consider AE content as not cannon, however I was hoping for you opinions.
So as we all know the Talos statue depicts a Man(?) stabbing a serpent under his feet, this man is suposed to be Talos of Atmora or Tiber Septim or that Zurin dude, either way its Talos, right? And the serpent, as the quest tells, is the world eating serpent or something like that, but im having problems understanding what exactly is this serpent, is it refering to the Yokudan or Worldskin mentioned in the Monomyth? or is it refering to Alduin? is it Something else? Are these serpents all the same?
Also how is it that Talos is responsable for the linear time? I came to understand that Akatosh, The time dragon god, is the diety responsable of creating time, so how is it that Talos is the one making it linear? Also Talos aint a common divine, he ascenden from manhood, the fact is that the man Tiber Septim, Talos of Atmora and the Zurin dude lived at time when linear time was already a thing so how does that even work?
I hope someone can help me understand a bit better, sorry for bad english also sorry for too much text.

                          Trinimac:

There I was, enraptured in the warmth of the depthless hallowed armor of the elden days of my youth, self crowned in eightfold glory, triune in my name. Lifted on high by the apparent nullity of cosmic balance borne from the Dragon of Stars.

I was humbly at his majesty's service, knelt before him in all meetings, but was eventually granted the seated throne in front of the chamber-curtain of his high-splendor. When yet all the soldiers of even his Old Guard were oath-bound to stand in rank and file.

Life was good in those days. I marked my days with righteous combat painting my name across the heavens and the earth so that His Majesty's might would be known in all its invisible verisimilitude.

My deeds are numerous and noteworthy.

The spear-end hunts of grey-mottled gryphons were as good as ever, and the whales that swam deep and long stood no chance against my long limbed hammer-sweeps. knife-hunts of the coral-horned elks of Cey-Tarn Vale ended with heaps of their voluptuous meats that fed to seasons unending until they ended.

Sword battles and duels with dukes and princedoms were common. I felled The Duke of Arnelorae at the Noon of Old Twyll, for he had insulted the Institutes of Mara by profaning his uncle. I left his corpse in the worm dust. I brought down the foreigner-kissing Xarael by dropping his own anvils on his head. But most famously, I barehandedly ripped the heart from His Majesty's evil brother and forever stained my hands black.

The world will seldom see again the likes of monsters that I had slain. The Slug-Frog Belcher Goagathga fell piecewise by the sword of Penitent and the Mirror-Monster summoned and sent by Northern Men could not trick us, although it did steal from me a reflection or two. Mudbather The Mean, who was not special, died from my hammer strike and Malalara The Hand-Summoner died when I pushed a stone into her throat.

                             Malacath:

I talk too long already on what-of-my-past, and yet these deeds, though they be true, are old and dead as I am now, or perhaps I was then, I do not know. To me, my old brethren have been foreign since my sundering, I am an exiled martyr. They are sealed away from me, inside this green-brass-cursed coffin that I took with me from the monster that ate me and who I yet want to be.

I talk vainly of the love of my father and the fancies of my old ways, and yet I am left to wander, fragmented, turned into a Mirror-Monster of my own make. I have no lens save the fictional greenshifted hue of a colonoscopic kaleidoscope.

Clothed in feces of faces, crowned in the anus of onus. Scaled in the rash of envy, tusked in the manner of that self-mocked vengeance, winged like chewed-up blackbirds spat-backwards in the mouths of godsmacked idiots.

I am the Fool who begat judgment and execution and has thus received it. The spine erect at my ash-burned heaven is the incomplete bridge from the alien dimension of my despair. The mock-bone of a testing altar, wherein I judge my capacity to learn based on my willingness to be in throngs of angry beaten dogs.

Even the fifteen others will not recognize me, they look down on me for my former station, save for that face-snaked she-devil, I am made to be her dung-slave and breathe the boiling gas of her inner chambers. I gag, and yet I can not vomit, I wanted these things before I tore my skin-cage away from her, and thus I am redeemed of these inequities.

The walls that I build shall become the furniture of my soul. the walled tower-garden of the ashpit has become my solace. Standing upon the jagged ivory floor of these bitter tearsalt cities redeems me by every sacrifice made in my name.

There are probably many many inspiration but as i was studying for my history exam I came to think what was the inspiration for the fighters guild? perhaps many mercenary groups or something. I would like to know some suggestions.

Hi everyone, it’s that time again!

The Weekly Free-Talk Thread is an opportunity to forget the rules and chat about anything you like—whether it's The Elder Scrolls, other games, or even real life. This is also the place to promote your projects or other communities. Anything goes!

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The robotic copy of Vivec's Mother continued her predecessor's journey to Mournhold, carrying Vivec within her. Along the way, more spirits came and went to behold the future God-King, and offer him instructions or lessons.

One day, a group of spirits appeared. They called themselves the "Lobbyists for the Coincidence Guild", and they were a group dedicated to defending the concept of coincidences.

Vivec did not believe in coincidence. He thought every action or event could ultimately be attributed to a greater being, and that no action or event just happened by itself.

To challenge the concept of coincidences, Vivec said:

"The existence of God disproves coincidences, because nothing happens without God, directly or indirectly, willing it to be so."

The leader of the spirits replied:

"Then how can you explain synchronicity? Two random things suddenly matching up in sound, or time, or movement, can only be the result of a coincidence! And if not a coincidence, then maybe you could call it luck!"

Vivec had to make a strong argument against luck or coincidence if he was going to retain his divinity, because the idea of a God's birth being the result of a coincidence, or just mere luck, would undermine his divinity and authority. He had to make sure that people knew his birth and ascension were deliberate, calculated moves.

"But the sudden surprise you get from seeing synchronicities is one of the pre-requisites for a coincidence. You aren't surprised if someone makes a deliberate action or movement, but you are surprised if it happens by itself. Or, by coincidence.

Synchronicity comes from numerous tiny coincidences building up. Two birds flapping their wings at the same time would have to coincidentally have the same speed, move at the same time, both with the same windspeed facing them.

When you look at all of those smaller coincidences, the numerous amount of events and factors needed to let that moment of synchronicity play out, do you not think that all of those events perfectly lining up are being guided by something more than just chance?

With that in mind, synchronicity actually ends up invalidating the idea of a coincidence, even though it's a coincidence that lets you see a synchronicity, and a synchronicity that lets you see coincidences!"

And so, Vivec disproved the idea of a coincidence.

At that point, a great spirit from the beginning of time rose from the Earth. They were an Ehlnofey, the progenitor of the mortal races, and were the first spirits to stay on Nirn after the Magna Ge abandoned it.

The Ehlnofey said:

"If you're going to be born as a Ruling King - that is, an empowered, divine, godly warrior-ruler, then I challenge you to surprise me. A Ruling King effects the world greatly - so you must tell me what new things you will bring to this world."

Vivec replied to the Ehlnofey:

"Let me tell you about the world, Nirn. I've shared the deepest secret of Nirn with Almalexia and Sotha Sil, my two closest companions.

Do you know where the world's heart is? Or rather, the Heart of Lorkhan? I've journeyed to it. But you'd never know.

No one can discern whether I did or not because my original, mortal life which lead up to that point was overwritten by my new, self-made divine life the instant I touched the Heart of Lorkhan.

And if it was my mortal life that lead me to the Heart of Lorkhan; I never used it in my new divine life, which means there's no proof that I used the Heart of Lorkhan."

In reaction to this information, the Ehlnofey folded in on itself over and over until he was distilled into his very essence. His essence looked like a white liquid, which Vivec drank. This made him a Ruling King of the Earth.

Finally, a spirit appeared called the "Chancellor of Exactitude" who was perfect and completely easy to understand. Vivec saw him as a challenge and said:

"Knowing things for certain is for Almalexia and Sotha Sil, because their duties require it. To retain my power and status, I must be ambiguous, undefinable and uncertain, yet all-powerful in spite of that."

The Chancellor bowed to Vivec and pulled a star chart of the entire universe from his robe and broke it in half, handing both the halves to the Egg that Vivec was within.

Vivec laughed and said: Not even a star chart of the universe can map out what I need to do. The senses of people lie to them. The universe around us isn't actually "reality". It's a dream being dreamt by Anu, the very first God!

The people of his dream, me and you, are just figments of his imagination. Only by blocking out my senses under careful instruction will I learn to safely "wake up" within that dream.

If I am to become a Ruling King, I will have to take on many challenges and turmoil that couldn't possibly be predicted or comprehended."

The ending of the words is Almalexia, Sotha Sil and Vivec.

My player character, a 2H weapon using Nord (Kroenan) is a heavily traditionalist Nord, worshipping the true Nordic pantheon (Shor, Tsun, Kyne, etc) and rejecting both Imperial and Mer loving blasphemers from corrupting him. He hates both the Imperials because they aren't Nords and like Elf-made bastardizations of his gods and he dislikes the Stormcloaks because they were Imperialized as well. Through the power of several hundred mods, I've fleshed him out. Using the Conquest of Skyrim mod alongside several dozens more, he has gathered his most trusted allies (some Bandits - they are the real Nords not the posers that live in the cities) and taken over the middle of Skyrim (Whiterun, The Pale, and Hjaalmarch) making the Civil War a three-way fight. As a true Nord, he wants to reestablish the pantheon and he certainly has the numbers and capability (having saved Skyrim during this mess).

Currently he has the strongest army out of the three and is looking to take the Imperialized regions of Falkreath, Markarth, and Haafingar first before pushing East. My main problem is what to do in the aftermath. He wants Shor and the old gods to send him a message. Based on his actions, would it more rp-like to have him be abandoned for his ways for whatever reason or to be made the champion of Shor and the old ways? Despite his "heroic" desires, he still kills a lot of Nords that never rejected the false Imperialized versions of the gods.

Let's say I wanted to play a bosmer archer that worshipped Hircine. I have the growl mod that let's you become a werebeast through Hircine offering you the power in a dream. Would Hircine dislike that I declined the beastblood and wanted to follow him without being a werebeast? I was thinking rp wise I either would be a better hunter without the blessing/curse or I wanted a challenge by hunting without being a werebeast

So I’ve finished the Luminaries quest series for ESO and it’s confirmed my ideas on how souls work but it also raises questions as to who each of the Luminaries were

We know that The Crow is Ulfsild or atleast Ulfsild made The Crow using a powerful ritual. Which begs the question, what if the other Luminaries were created from extremely powerful bursts of magic? Like say Kagrenac using the Tools on the Heart. Which would explain the Netch’s origin, being Ashland themed.

But who could the others be? The Indrik seems to point to either a Bosmer and Altmer. The Gryphon points to Altmer, Ayleid, or maybe Falmer. The Fox has to be an Atmoran or a Nord, as Shor is the Fox. The Dragon has to be Khajiiti due to its wing. We also know the birth order, Indrik, Dragon, Gryphon, Netch

I can guess that the Dragon could be from Riddle’Thar or Ja’darri when she sealed the dragons in the Hall of the Colossus.

What do you think? I’m curious to see if we can come up with more ideas or possible candidates.

How big would dragons canonically be? Skyrim's dragons are quite small especially compared to ESO's

I believe that The Nine Coruscations (Merid-nunda and the Star Orphans) is an Ayleid religious text and as such in the Elder Scrolls universe subject to is this correct, but if it is and Ithelia and Memory are responsible for creating Prisoners how does that function keep working once Ithelia exits our universe?

In fact, how did The Vestige come about if Ithelia was in nonexistence prison at that time? I know that Memory was retroactively inserted so is that the way this is working here as well? Once Ithelia leaves Memory just keeps going on with instructions that were left to her?

Or of course is this all an Ayleid idea that is wrong (or perhaps right and wrong at the same time)?

Title says it all. I've seen it preached often that Malacath, Azura, and Nocturnal are of the few Princes who are least likely to betray you.

Update 44 of ESO has added some very interesting new lore through the storylines of the new Companions, Tanlorin and Zerith-var, which touch on a number of older lore theories and ideas. This is a rough summation.

Tanlorin's Story-The Thalmor Conspiracy.

Tanlorin's story deals with a conflict between the Garland Ring, a clandestine group of Altmer who seek to reform Summerset by applying targeted pressure on influential individuals, rooting out corruption and performing spywork, and a mysterious group which has somehow been taking action against the Ring's members despite their secrecy (codenames, hidden safehouses, so on). The group is lead by a mysterious individual called "The Gardener" whose identity is unknown outside the fact that he's an extremely wealthy noble of some sort.

Through investigation the identity of the Ring's foes is revealed, the Ceythalmor.

The Thalmor are of course the Aldmeri Dominion's ruling bureaucracy, made up of Canonreeves, nobles, wealthy merchants, and so on.

The Ceythalmor than are a concealed organization which exists hidden within the official Thalmor ranks. The name "Ceythalmor" itself literally meaning "Shadow Thalmor" in old Ayleidoon. Their ranks consist of not just officials but mages, soldiers, and so on, they've their own military force basically.

The group's motto/self described goal is "march forward towards perfection". They also claim to seek a "perfected Dominion".

Its long been theorized in discussion that the Veiled Heritance's remnants might've infiltrated the Thalmor and influenced their shift into the organization we see in the 4th Era. Here we learn instead that the 2E Thalmor had already been compromised, and its suggested that the Ceythalmor are actually the political and financial backers of the Veiled Heritance.

The Vestige and Tanlorin uncover the manner in which the Ceythalmor have been getting information, a mole within the Garland Ring itself, Wisteria, a powerful mage and Tanlorin's magic instructor.

Turns out the Ceythalmor are planning a coup, they're going to assassinate the Proxy Queen and install another member of the royal family, a cousin of Queen Ayrenn who is secretly aligned with them, in her place.

Using traitors within the palace the Ceythalmor have managed to create a brief window when the arcane wards will be disabled, and teleport a strike force lead by Wisteria into the throne room. Tanlorin and the Vestige track them using Tanlorin's magic and the group's own teleportation device, and stop them before they can break the queen's barrier and kill her.

The coup is stopped but the Garland Ring has been decimated and is exposed, forcing the Gardener to have it go public and fold it into the royal court if its to survive in some form.

The Gardener himself turns out to be the uncle of Proxy Queen Alwinarwe, and is implied to be King Hidellith himself, who faked his death and disappeared from the public eye after having come to believe he would not be able to change Summerset through official means, even as king.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Tanlorin

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Gardener

Zerith-var's story-The Rajaksa and the Moon Beast

This story deals with Zerith-var, an ancient necromancer of the Order of the Hidden Moon, who has been returned to life and been transported through time to the future by Azurah herself. His soul is cast from Azurah's Crossing back to Nirn in a form resembling a "fallen star" and in the process his being is filled with Soulfire, making his eyes glow.

Rajaksa are an especially powerful and dangerous form of Dro-m'Athra, created when a Moon Singer or Twilight Cantor, someone with "music in their soul" falls to the Bent Dance. Their link to music and song, which they use to cast powerful spells in the form of arcane music, makes it so their darkened spirits join with one another in a "phantasmal chorus" that beckons the power of the Dark Heart and the Void all the more and allows them to forcibly transform others into Dro-m'Athra, creating a more dangerous and ever increasing threat.

It it thought Zerith-var died defeating Ravith-morna, first of all Rajaksa and the leader of their pride. This conflict resulted in the Rajaksa incursion of Zerith's time being ended and the Rajaksa themselves disappearing from Nirn, having remained just a story since the First Era.

In the present day Ravith-morna has somehow returned and Zerith and the Vestige have to track her with the help of Zerith's Moonclaw, an enchanted jeweled band which calls forth a blade of moonlight that allows its wielder to guide, invoke and redeem souls using the "lunar byways", to open portals, and to sense arcane influence and receive divine messages. Its a lesser copy of Azurah's Moonlight Blade seen in the Ashen Scar quests, granted by Azurah to select members of the Hidden Moon order.Zerith uses his Hidden Moon necromancy, which involves invoking willing spirits for aid and restoring/healing troubled or corrupted souls and ushering them to the afterlife, to restore the souls of the new Rajaksa.

Ravith is targeting Twilight Cantors, corrupting them into new Rajaksa and threatening a new incursion. In the process of tracking her, the Vestige and Zerith fall into conflict with the Torval Curiata, the religious inquisitors of the post Riddle'Thar Epiphany faith, tasked with rooting out heresy.

Zerith's redemptive necromancy combined with his glowing eyes make him seem to the inquisitors as a dangerous heretical lich, so he ends up being targeted for assassination.

Zerith himself is appalled at what Khajiit faith has become. He claims the Riddle'Thar Epiphany to be the work of a "false prophet" who forced people to worship a "sterile moonlight" with no real substance. He is especially enraged at the Twilight Cantors who, unlike the Moon Singers of Old who worked with the Hidden Moon to guide spirits to redemption, instead banish them through their songs. According to Zerith this song of banishment actually eradicates the soul of the Dro-m'Athra entirely, literally "banishes it from existence".

Zerith believes this to be the exact opposite of the will of Azurah, who above all else desires to have her children with her redeemed, not see them destroyed.

Its revealed that the Order of the Hidden Moon was eradicated and forgotten not just because of Arum-Khal and his betrayal, but also because the new faith under Rid-Thar-ri'Datta actually tracked down and destroyed their holy sites and temples wherever they could find them (one old temple was literally cast into the sea). Some who hold to the old ways persist but hidden, one of those individuals claims the Riddle'Thar is actually "Baan Daar finally managing to trick the world".

During all this Zerith guides the Vestige to perform a ritual to see into his memories.

Here we learn part of what transpired. Ravith was once a Moon Singer who was assigned to work with Zerith by his old partner, a senior Moon Singer named Talbira. The two grew close, entered into a relationship though it was not allowed given their roles, and grew fearful of losing one another.

One day while training her song magic on a Bone Goliath Zerith had summoned, Ravith grew enraged and used a new song. A song that eradicated both the construct and the soul within it entirely and had the beat of the Dark Heart within it.

This song was "revealed" to Ravith when, fearful of losing Zerith, she asked for more power, and Namiira answered (the fact that both the songs of the Cantors and the song revealed to Ravith by Namiira, the first time such a song was used, eradicate souls, could have some implications regarding the post Riddle'Thar beliefs).

Zerith was horrified but it was too late. Ravith ended up transforming into the first Rajaksa and went on a rampage, slaying Hidden Moon acolytes and corrupting Moon Singers into more Rajaksa. She was confronted by Talbira who utilized a special song of her own, the only thing capable of binding the now near unstoppable Ravith.

Zerith was asked to redeem Ravith's soul while she was bound but, fearful she'd resist (as Rajaksa are uniquely resistant to being restored even by Hidden Moon necromancy) and they'd be separated in spirit forever, he turned his blade on Talbira instead to allow Ravith to escape.

In present Zerith and co seek to summon Talbira's spirit, to learn the song that can bind Ravith.

When they encounter Talbira's remains her spirit emerges but instead turns into an orb of light and enters a young Cantor, Krin'ze.

This isn't a possession. Though ghosts can possess the living, the dead, even inanimate objects like statues or animunculi, that is not what has occured here.

Instead the soul of Talbira merges with the soul of Krin'ze. The two become one and Talbira effectively reincarnates into Krin'ze, who can now experience Talbira's memories and feelings as if they were her own and even use her magic like the binding song. Spirits that knew Talbira now view Krin'ze as her.

Though spirits can do this to reincarnate, Zerith notes it is relatively rare behaviour (presumably because unlike in a possession where it retains control and distinct existence, here the spirit effectively loses independent existence and becomes a background influence of the living soul).

Ultimately Ravith's real plan is revealed.

Strong emotions like guilt or love fill the soul too much, they crack and wound it, allowing the Void to seep in (this is what creates dro-m'Athra or Shades and such). When Zerith killed Talbira his guilt created a wound in his soul that beckons the Void. Though he can't change into Dro-mAthra as his Hidden Moon training protects him unless he loses faith, this Void can be used by Ravith.

Bonds like love create a real arcane connection between souls, Ravith can use this link to access Zerith's Void for power and to open a rift across the planes leading to Azurah's Crossing (here revealed to be a collective name for multiple planes under Azurah's control).

When Zerith killed Talbira he betrayed her, and two hearts were wounded and stained by darkness. This event mirrors the birth of the Moon Beast Lorkhaj, the Void shade of the real original Moon Prince, which was born of his Dark Heart after a betrayal between spirits and a heart stained by darkness.

Though the Moon Beast was eventually redeemed by Azurah and now prowls the Lunar Lattice as a protector of souls from the Void (the Hidden/Dark Moon being clarified as the true spirit of Lorkhaj freed of corruption), in recreating the myth Zerith and Ravith have actually created a new Moon Beast.

Ravith's chorus of Rajaksa is meant to awaken this "beast of pure Void" which slumbers within the Void itself, and use the Void rift of Zerith's guilt to allow it to enter Azurah's Crossing.

Should this new Moon Beast reach the Crossing it will end the Khajiiti afterlife itself, seize any and all souls on the way to the beyond and drag them into the Void where they'll be corrupted into Dro-m'Athra, bringing about the dream of all Dro-m'Athra of a new dark world.

The Vestige, Zerith, and Krin'ze follow Ravith (who summons lesser aspects of the Moon Beast to aid her) into the Great Darkness and use Talbira's song to bind and redeem her, but its too late. The Moon Beast (which takes a form resembling a gigantic Dro-m'Athra Senche-raht of sorts) is awake and goes on to fulfill its mission. Luckily the combined songs of the redeemed Ravith and Krin'ze/Talbira alongside Zerith's Moonclaw with the strength of the Vestige and Zerith going into it, and invoking the true Hidden Moon, manage to send the Moon Beast back into the Void before it can reach the gate to the Crossing.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Zerith-var

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Cantor_Krin%27ze

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Viti%27s_Notes:_Order_of_the_Hidden_Moon,_Part_I

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Viti%27s_Notes:_Order_of_the_Hidden_Moon,_Part_II

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Viti%27s_Notes:_Moon_Beasts

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:High_Cantor_Viti

Outcomes from the Many Paths

The Psijics have a way to scry the Many Paths for information and view worlds where fate took a different course. Some of those outcomes have been transcribed into temporal tomes which you are tasked with retrieving.

In one world the Ascendant Order won, Tamriel was engulfed in firestorms and volcanic eruptions through the power of the new Druid King who proceeded to tear down the old kingdoms and reign over the aflame world from his Ivy Throne.

In one world the Abyssal Cabal Sea Sload took over Summersret, using wide scale mind magic to brainwash the populace, flesh magic to reshape them into aquatic warrior forms, and teaching them Shadow Magic in preparation to invade Tamriel.

In one world Mannimarco retrieved the Amulet of Kings and struck while Molag Bal and the Vestige dueled, he successfully absorbed Molag Bal and became a Daedric Prince as the Planemeld completed. This new Prince now in charge of both worlds, created a giant throne of souls and bone above the Imperial City, eradicated most of the Psijic Order, and turned the world into a giant sepulchre where the undead hunted the living.

In one world Glenumbra was rendered uninhabitable when a Peryite cult used one of the Prince's artifacts, an unassuming black scarf which infected all who came near the wearer with all sorts of diseases, to unlreash a terrible epidemic that was than used as fuel for a great necromantic event.

In one world, a horde of unkowable horrors from the Void were detected by the Psijic Order, revealed to have been pushing through the Void for centuries to reach Nirn. Answers were sought through the help of the Dark Brotherhood, prayer to the gods of Elseweyr, and the Grayhaven based vampires of the Gray Host, but no one knew what they were. They were not Dro-m'Athra, not of Sithis, and not of Grayhaven. Out of options a last defense was set up at the point of the breach, an "endless net of Sacred Numbers" formed of purest magicka. The beings were unlike any spirit, daedra or creature known. The smaller ones were tangled in the net and fell back. The larger ones gazed through the rift with a single unlidded great eye and all who looked upon it were unmade from existence. Ultimately it was no use, the defenses failed and the veil of reality ripped asunder, allowing the horrors into the world, everything being unmade by their arrival.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Elusive_Manuscripts

Other Bits

Hyacinth, an inventor of the Garland Ring has made some pretty incredible technology. Mechanical snakes that transform into lamps, mechanical birds that can pick locks with their tongues, handheld ballistae, devices for remote communication, teleportation, amplifying magic.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Hyacinth

All things are connected. People, objects, the sea. Soul Magic can tap those connections to open portals, read memories and emotions, and so on.

There are some like Tanlorin born with innate affinity for wild magic (Soul Magic in their case). Summerset is positive towards magic, but only towards magic that is employed as taught by the Sapiarchs, with strict control and specific methods. Undisciplined magic is viewed as something to be locked away, with magical tatoos being used to seal it away and replace it with the Sapiarch method.

M'aiq the Liar has an agent of the Garland Ring assigned specifically to monitor him. He is considered high priority for some reason and the agent that monitors him has an enormous budget allocated to her. Said agent claims the budget is almost entirely used on wine, which she uses to "keep him talking".

..And that's it.

Could the Ceythalmor be the origin for the 4e Thalmor's actions ? Could Talbira's reincarnation serve as a model for things like the Nerevarine ? Is the birth of a new Moon Beast through the mirroring of Lorkhaj's legend mythopoeia in action ? What's with the unidentifiable world ending void horrors ?

Thoughts ?

As the title says im wondering how lore accurate it is especially with the airship which feels really out of place to me

The Legend of Talos the Man- Purification by Fire
By Lennald the Tuned-Tongue, Skyrim's Most Beloved Bard

From Atmora, Talos came, making for himself a new home in Skyrim. From the chieftains and war-thanes, he learned the ways of war. From the skalds and bards, he learned the craft of the clever tongue and the power of a good story, and how to wield the two to compel the hearts and minds of men. Like the oaks of Falkreath, young Talos grew tall and strong, becoming as he aged a fine warrior and a keenly minded commander. As a young man, he pledged his sword to Cuhlecain, King of Falkreath, and was charged with leading the forest king's warhost.

After his legendary victory at the Battle of Old Hrol'dan- of which many songs are sung- Talos led Cuhlecain's army on a southbound conquest. Marching through the Colovian Estates of western Cyrodiil, General Talos and his army entered into the troubled lands of Kvatch.

Kvatch was a kingless land, its lordship viciously contested by a rowdy band of warlords. Many recent battles had scarred the land, leaving the land corpse-laden and blood soaked. The city of Kvatch itself, situated high atop the Dragon's Hill, had been decimated in the many struggles for the throne. Having refused to crown the late king's son, the Primate of Akatosh had been heinously murdered at the very altar of the Cathedral of Akatosh. In the days thereafter, the Primate returned to the realm of the living as a venomous wraith, driving the faithful from the Cathedral with its wailing.

After defeating each of the warlords in a succession of battles, Talos marched his army to the Dragon's Hill and encamped at its base. Ordering his soldiers to stray not from the confines of their camp and patiently await his return, Talos journeyed alone up the hill, into the ruined city of Kvatch, and waded into the darkness that had engulfed the Cathedral of Akatosh. Kneeling at the altar shrouded in shadows, Talos prayed unceasingly for eight days and eight nights. On the first hour of the ninth day, the Primate's wraith revealed itself, appearing above the altar in the form of a great, coiled wyrm, roaring in rage at the praying mortal intruding upon its presence. Rising to his feet, Talos stared down the wraith. Parting his lips, the General spoke, but no longer in whispered prayers- nay, now Talos spoke mightily in the Voice, and his words manifested in flames. The wyrm horrifically screeched as the fires washed over it, until its corporeal form was destroyed in totality. Purified by fire, the Cathedral of Akatosh was free from the hauntings of the wraith-wyrm.

As the sun rose, Talos descended the Dragon's Hill and returned to his soldiers, who had been loyally awaiting the promised return of their great General. Taking them once again under his command, they marched on, as much conquering remained to be done before they could bring to rest their sword arms.

Hello!

I have been reading up on Sotha Sil for an upcoming Lore dive I am doing on him, and already within the early part of his life, I am having trouble.

It's stated that Vivec raised Sotha Sil after the destruction of Ald Sotha, yet it's also claimed that Sotha Sil and Vivec are metaphorical "brothers," and Sermon 1 of the 36 Lessons of Vivec seems to imply that Sotha Sil is Vehk's father.

In short, what is going on here, and is there any concise proof of whether or not Sotha Sil was in fact raised by Vivec, or is it basically all up to interpretation? Thanks!