I’m relatively new to swing dancing (weekly for about 3 months) so please stay with me as I think out loud and probably use inaccurate terminology.

As I learn the basic steps and different ways to lead my partner into a right-to-right position I wonder are there any more ways to get into this position that I don’t know about? Surely there are more than 5 ways to go from standard hand position into a right-to-right hand position — are they all listed somewhere? 🤷🏼‍♂️

Taking it a step further I wonder if all the moves we can do are listed based on the current starting position? (cuddle, dip, right-to-right, double crossed hands, etc.) Armed with all the moves from the different starting positions I could write a little program to construct different routines and try them out to see how they look and feel.

Thanks for any links / tips / resources for learning all the moves ☺️

Hi!

My typical practice schedule includes a 3-hour block of classes. But I often don't make it through to the end due to soreness in the balls of my feet.

Any recs for comfy/supportive shoes? I have suede stickers for the soles, but my Hokas feel like they're probably too bulky and heavy.

Hi friends so this year I decided to check out dancing. I thought it was cool whenever I went out and saw guys able to lead people in cool dances. So found a local studio.

I've spent a couple thousand on private lessons and went to a few dance parties. Not sure if thats the wisest use of my money as someone in their 20s saving for a house hahaha. The people are all so nice. I got the shoes and everything. But I can't help but feel this hobby needs to be fulltime and Im not sure thats what I want. I honestly just wanted be able to say I could dance and do a couple really well. So far I've learned a ton of dances (swing and ballroom) and have signed up for rounds for professional review this weekend. Honestly not sure of I'm ready for that

But I notice I don't have the passion like others have. Almost imposter syndrome. I'm not trying to show up every day and compete. So many people are there most of the week and love it so much. But at the same time I don't want to be mediocre. Maybe I need to do less lessons and more classes to have more fun? My instructor says she thinks I might be getting bored. Once the I've caught onto the basic steps I do find technique to be monotonous. Like Im in high school sports again haha. Can anyone relate?

My local studio has a class that essentially teaches side-by-side Charleston, cross hand, and then tandem. 1 or 2 entries/exits, but I definitely crave having a few more interesting combinations plus any other Charleston things I don’t know about. Are there any online resources you all have looked into for picking this stuff up?

I’m a female that doesn’t usually get hit on often. However, I’ve noticed since I started swing dancing regularly, there’s been a range of questionable to creepy behavior from men.

This behavior includes offering me a ride on our very first interaction to asking personal info (i.e., where I live and then drilling for more detail as in the exact neighborhood). This has made me wonder if some people are using socials and classes as a way to find dates.

I think I’m extra sensitive, because at a different place I frequent (non-swing dance), interactions from one guy quickly escalated.. from friendly nods… to very very enthusiastic hellos… to our first conversation involving him asking me my age, whether I’m married, and if I’m happy.

There is one guy in class that I felt comfortable being friendly and chatting with, with one reason being that his girlfriend is also taking classes. We’re in a group message thread with a bunch a people in our community and he has messaged me separately thru the platform (with a totally harmless, non-creepy message).

But what has made me recently uncomfortable is that he tends to squeeze my hands when we’ve stopped dancing (in an affectionate way I feel you would do towards your partner).

Am I reading too much into these unnecessarily hand squeezes? Should I tell him to stop?

Are you guys running into situations where people are making you uncomfortable? I am there to dance, and not treating this hobby like a dating app.

I want to improve at fast dancing. Not necessarily "better dancing" at fast tempos, I mean the ability to keep going song after song when the tempos are cookin'. Part of what I've been told to do is just practice dancing at those tempos.

I think that has helped some, but I'm more interested in the training that can be done *outside* of dancing to improve endurance. I'm not a fitness guru, but I assume some sort of endurance training (running) or interval training that helps with heart rate can be helpful with dancing.

Wondering what thoughts/personal experience you all might have? Thanks.

This year will be my first time at ILHC and I'm wondering what to expect. I'd say I'm an improver to lower-intermediate level dancer, but have done most of my dancing on the other side of the Atlantic. I've attended various festivals/exchanges in the UK and Europe. Is it likely to be more or less the same, but bigger, or are there significant differences to be aware of?

-Classes: other than the ones clearly marked as beginner, are all other classes open level? Do they tend to pitch high?

-Etiquette: are two dances customary?

-Technique: are there any significant differences to be prepared for?

-Practical advice: is there anything that would be helpful for me to know, either about NYC or ILHC in particular? (I've visited the city once before, pre-Covid, so it shouldn't be a total culture shock.)

Thanks in advance for any tips.

When I think of swing, I think of "Sing Sing Sing" by Benny Goodman. It's a cliché, but for a good reason - something about those drums and horns make everything sound more epic, like some serious business is about to go down

I also really like "OTR" (by Moka Efti Orchestra), "Ko-ko" and "The New East St Louis Toodle-O" (both Duke Ellington), "Joshua Fit de Battle of Jericho" (Sidney Bechet), "High Roller Mambo" (John Rowcroft) ... basically anything that sounds like it could accompany an action scene, villain entrance, or a "the cavalry arrives!" moment in a movie, I guess, if that makes sense.

I not interested in stuff like "T'aint What You Do", or "Don't Be That Way" (Benny Goodman) or "Jumpin' At The Woodside" (Count Basie). Energetic, bouncy, but too ... cheerful?

Individual song recommendations would be great. If what I'm looking for is an actual genre within swing, or if there are artists that specialize in this, then that would be even better to know. I'm not at all a purist - I'm happy to hear recommendations from more modern groups or that aren't strictly big band-era swing.

I've heard from musicians-turned-dancers that their existing knowledge of music helped them learn to dance quicker or better than ordinary people. Is the same true in reverse: do dancers have any advantages when learning an instrument?

And if so, what advantages, and do they apply evenly to different instruments? For example, I'd expect an experienced dancer to have a decent sense of rhythm which make be helpful in learning drums, but I guess something like clarinet or sax is more about breath control and dexterity, so would dance really be much of an advantage for then?

I'm asking this mostly because I'm considering learning an instrument (e.g sax, jazz piano, drums) and I'm pretty daunted by it. I wasn't good at music at school as a child

This composition has a complicated history. Here’s what I understand about it from the beginning.

Yevhen Hrebinka's wrote the poem titled Чёрные oчи (Ochi chërnye = Black or Dark Eyes) in 1843 and it was published in a St. Petersburg, Russia, literary gazette.

Florian Hermann wrote Hommage-Valse, Opus 21, a piano solo piece, in 1879.

Sergey (Sofus) Herdahl (Gerdal) combined the two and turned it into a “Gypsy romance song” in 1884. Here’s an incredible write-up on this song’s history (https://riowang.blogspot.com/2018/02/dark-eyes.html)

Concert Record Gramophone, G.C. 3-22842 in 1908 may be the first audio publication of this composition. It is operatic with solo piano.

Tommy Dorsey may have been the first to adapt this to swinging jazz on Victor 25556 (album credits arrangers as Carmen Mastren and Tommy Dorsey) released in 1937, recorded March 10, 1937 (link to the track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arInJrg-Poo)

Here’s some other relevant audio publications of this composition

Columbia – 12053-F, Russian Novelty Orchestra, Track title “Dark Eyes,” released in 1927; got to hear on YouTube! It’s in 3/4 and isn’t a swingin’ jazz tune

Columbia – 14188-D, Dixie Washboard Band, track title “Dark Eyes,” released in 1927; not on YouTube as far as I can tell

My question is does anyone know when this composition was first adapted, recorded, and published as a swing jazz tune.

I have dance rehearsal tonight, forgot my shoes, and won't be able to go home to get them. How can I make my work sneakers slippery? I have access to painters tape, gaffer's tape, and duct tape. Might be able to scrounge up other tapes and general school supplies as well. It only needs to last for an hour. Thank you!

I am 150cm/4′9″ tall and slim and I am struggling finding dresses/shirts/pants/whatev that fit. Is there a vintage "petite" line I couldn’t find yet? 🙌

Hi there! I started dancing a couple of years ago and I keep going to events and festivals with blue jeans and t-shirts, my regular look, I have a couple of textured shirts I bring with me for these occasions but besides them I don't have shoes, boots, pants or anything!

The main problem is that even if I love jazz music and swing dancing I really don't like the look that most people go for! I feel uncomfortable in these type of clothing... I like people dressed like that, I've friends of mine that really have a killer look with the classic lots of people aim for but I don't feel good in them so I would like to look for something different, still in the general style but more like me.

Baggy pants, boots, t-shirts, shirts with long sleeves rolled up to the elbows open on the front.

No braces, papillons, pleated trousers or flat shoes.

I don't know what to search for so I'm out of examples or particular brands to look for clothing.

Any suggestion, clothing style name or models to look at? I would really like some suggestions! And I hope I'm not OT (I took a look at the guidelines and I shouldn't...)

EDIT: To all you saying I should just dress like my usual self cause that's not what matters, thanks! I get what you're doing and I appreciate it. I'm not interested in finding myself a look cause I believe I need to but cause I want to:

I've never been interested in looks and styles of any kind, never looked at trends or things like that. But I'm also dressing approximately the same since my 20s, I've no idea on how to search for new looks and it feels like everything slightly different on me feels odd or wrong. I need to work on this for myself and I want to kickstart it with swing dancing looks.

And thanks for all the advice so far, you gave me lots of good examples to look into.

My female friend who I've been dancing lindy with for a couple of years now has her birthday coming up. What are some cool presents I can get her other than shoes? Budget < $100.

Hey all :) So my local swing dance group is having a big anniversary party with a live band. It's my first event where I feel like I have all the basics solidly down enough to really enjoy and start adding my own style. Would love to celebrate with a new outfit. Any recommendations where to find some cool retro/vintage stuff?

Our small organization has been offering financial assistance for events and lessons for several years now. Nobody has ever requested financial help from us. I understand there is a stigma behind asking for financial help, but we kind of figured at least one person would have asked by now. We are at the point where we feel we should be revisiting this topic and make some kind of change, so we are looking to other groups to see how they operate.

• Does your dance scene or event offer financial assistance?
• How long have you been offering it?
• How often is it utilized?
• What have you done to promote?
• How are you budgeting for it?
• What would make it easier for you (as a dancer) to utilized these funds?

All advice and suggestions are welcome. If there is a better place to ask these questions, please let me know.

Our next step is to ask the folx in our community what they think/want.

Would any experienced collegiate shag dancers be able to give me a little background on shagout variations and styling?

I’m a primary Lindy Hopper who has been learning and dancing shag recently. I vaguely heard of ‘Shagouts’ (the collegiate shag version of a swingout) but have never been taught them. I assumed that you would adapt your shag footwork to an 8-count/single-time(?) basic (i.e. quick-quick, slow, quick-quick, slow) while performing the general mechanics of a swing out, and I have been experimenting and with leading that on the floor to some *success (as far as I can tell).

But today I noticed (while watching youtube videos of comps from Hot Rhythm Holiday) dancers maintaining the 6-count rhythm in shagouts, making the whole move 12 counts instead of 8. Then I did a cursory search for videos of shagouts specifically and only saw 12-count variations. Are 8-count shagouts unpopular or uncommon?

Thanks

So I'm a pretty anxious bean, but I really want to improve. I've been dancing for a couple of years now, so I'm definitely at a point where I'm not getting much feedback from teachers who are actually teaching the class because I'm not completely goosing the footwork, elbowing anyone in the face, or trying to rip anyone’s arms off. There's one teacher in the class who will occasionally give me a bit of feedback when I lead (when he's just in rotation), and it's always extremely helpful and like, immediately improves whatever I'm trying to do by 100000%

There's a lot of other dancers that I really admire in our scene, and I'd really like to hear their opinions on where I'm weakest and what I can work on, but I'm not super sure how to go about asking for feedback. I'm not sure what the etiquette is on asking for that during (or I guess after?) social dancing because I don't want to bother people if they're just trying to enjoy having a dance. In classes too, I'm not really sure how to non awkwardly phrase 'make me good at this pls' without coming across as super insecure or awkward.

Anyway, any tips would be welcome!

In a moment of supreme confidence, after being horribly bullied gently encouraged by one of my teachers (seriously, they were SO NICE!), I signed up for the audition tracks at Beantown. I've never done an event with audition tracks before, so I'm wondering if some kind soul could tell me what I might expect and what the judges are looking for.

If I don't make it because I'm not up to their standard, that's disappointing, but I'll get over it. I do want want to make sure that I'm showing what they want to see. If I don't make it because they're looking for clean technique and I'm being all "musicality first!", that would be a much bigger disappointment, especially as I'm pretty sure I can't make it in 2025 for a redemption audition.

I'm looking for videos that illustrate Lindy as a conversation between partners really well. I'm not sure if I'm describing it well, but basically I'm interested in things that really show both lead and follow responding to what the other is doing, in the way that Laura Glaess describes here: https://youtu.be/4BvQuMkrj-U?si=xBFFpJ7RpsAvsp_d

Obviously every high-level dance features this to a degree, but not every dance shows it in obvious ways. Maybe my question is not very good or clear, but I'd love any suggestions anyone has (videos of choreographed routines are probably not the best thing here since things are planned out in advance). I find it easy to get caught up in my own creativity sometimes and to ignore the creative decisions of my partner, hence the question. Thanks!

I have a version of Savoy that is 3:00 in length and 194BPM. I got it from Amazon. According to the metadata it is from the album "The Greatest Swing Dance Hits of All Time" (2012 Hindsight Records) which credits Lucky but doesn’t provide original release info. I believe that the first release of this song was by Lucky Millinder on Decca 18353 in 1942, but I don’t believe this is that version. The 1942 version is 165 BPM.

Here’s a link to the track (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/4ejgehmejn0a77qjll86e/26-Savoy-1.mp3?rlkey=w4tghrd72iwtd233jpxcwjyz7&dl=0).

Does anyone know when this was recorded and released?

Hi all. I'm looking for a move I've seen some people do during social dancing a couple of times (I cannot ask because I have not seen them again lately). I would describe it as a "delayed swingout" but I'm not sure. It is a swingout variation in which it feels like the stretch in 3-4 is prolonged a bit into the 5-6 and then the follower is sent forward in a much more swoooshy way. It is somewhat similar to this syncopated swingout here but without the over-rotation (I tried searching youtube for just "syncopated swingout" but didn't find it like that either).

Do note that since I have only seen it a couple of times I did not have time to thoroughly analyze it, so it is possible that it is "accelerated" rather than "delayed" (i.e. the sendout is at the right timing but faster and the extra time goes before the 7-8 re-connection instead of after 3-4). I think the speed of the sendout is what is fixed in my head, where they could even do it making the follow do one of those small "throw-outs" where they can jump a bit.

Do you have any idea what this is call or do you have any reference video of someone either teaching it or using it in a competition?

My partner (F37) and I (F33) have been going through a travel bucket list and came across a potential hang up.

We both love swing dancing and I want to go to more extensive swing workshops around the world. She wants to go to the Amalfi Coast in Italy. We may have found the best of both worlds with Novellang Swing Camp in the beginning of August.

I asked my local scene and some people warned us that there's a 50% chance that the Italian scene might be very conservative and unaccepting, or they might be fully accepting of our relationship (and my partner's status as a transwoman.)

Does anyone know what the scene is like at Novellang? Does anyone get vibes that its consistently one scene over the other or a mix? I recognize some of the dancers in the ads and assume that its mostly safe and accepting, but I would like to hear from people who have been there before or have danced in the local scene in Southern Italy.

I'm a lead, and my natural facial expression is not especially smiley. Even worse, I tend to concentrate quite hard while I'm dancing (except with friends), so my face is generally quite intense and off-putting to dance with. I'm not maintaining excess eye contact or anything, it's just I have a kind of permanent frown.

Many follows in my current scene are not especially shy about telling me that, including total strangers or people I've only danced with once or twice. I personally REALLY don't like it, and it kind of spoils a dance for me whenever someone says something seemingly minor like "wow, you look so serious". These aren't the sort of comments that makes me feel like smiling, and then I give an awkward fake smile and apologize.

I haven't complained to anyone directly about this, and its the sort of thing that I'm probably paying a lot more attention to than anyone else is, but I've mentioned it in passing with other experienced follows, and most have been decidedly unsympathetic - I've heard:

"Well, just imagine how bad it is for women - we hear this all the time"

"That's just part of the dance - Lindy hop is about looking energetic and happy. Frowning is for tango"

"It's the leader's job to make the follower feel comfortable, and that means looking positive and well as body connection".

Most have basically just said, ignore it, and you'll look less concentrated as you get better and everything is more natural. And that is probably good pragmatic advice. But I can't help feeing a little disgruntled, because from the moment I've started lindy hop I've heard things like "never give feedback unless you clearly ask for it", "always speak up if your partner is making you uncomfortable" and so on as a mantra, but some of the same figures giving those lectures are also mocking my face when we dance by mimicking my serious face occasionally, and the general attitude has been "suck it up, buttercup" rather than "we should remind our followers not to do this".

I'm trying to keep an open mind on this, and I get that a follower mightn't want to dance with a lead who always looks like they're trying to defuse a bomb, but I still think commenting during a dance crosses a line into being slightly rude. I also suppose that it's difficult to propose a blanket rule about this kind of thing because such feedback can be made in a playful way and is not necessarily meant to be malicious or predatory. All the same, I think that if I commented on an unfamiliar follow's "resting b*tch face", even in a light-hearted tone, that it would be received quite unfavourably (and rightfully so), which makes me wonder if there's a double standard.

Has anyone here experienced something like this before, or discussed facial expressions explicitly as part of a rules of conduct thing? I've seen "always bring a spare shirt and deodorant", I've seen "avoid prolonged eye contact", but I've never seen anything about smiling. Do you think it is an essential part of the dance, as important as a triple step? Do you only dance with visibly happy people? Have you ever commented on something facial expression, or told them to look more relaxed?

I’ve been dancing all my life (mostly contemporary ballet, but some jazz, tap, hip-hop, etc.). When I moved to a new state for grad school (almost 10 years ago) I picked up swing dance as a way to meet new people. I met my now husband at school and convinced him to try swing. He had never danced or played music or anything, so there was definitely an imbalance of skill. But he got much better as time went on and he’s still my favorite person to dance with. We even had a big band play at our wedding and got to show off a few moves.

The problem is, in his words, he has a different relationship to dance than I do. He will dance with other people in classes (because he has to) but at a social dance he refuses to dance with anyone else except for me. He has said he has zero interest. While he says it’s fine if I dance with other people, I still feel very uncomfortable to be dancing and laughing while he’s just off in a corner looking at his phone. I feel like I can’t then go up and talk to him about how fun that song was because it’s weird to say how someone else’s dancing was fun when he’s just been sitting there. (And if I ever comment negatively about someone to him that just makes him even more insecure and less likely to dance with others because they might think the same about him.)

I get that him being a lead and me being a follow is likely a large part of the problem. I get to go out and be flung around in fun and surprising ways (and can usually have the coordination to keep up with it because of my other training) but he has to just do the same moves he does with me but with someone else he doesn’t like as much. This tension (and tbh other things like getting a puppy) has resulted in us just letting the shared hobby die. We haven’t really done lessons or social dances since our wedding 2 years ago. I know he would be extremely hurt if I picked it up again without him, but I’m not really sure how to navigate this together. Does anyone else have a SO who is just along for the ride?

Or is it just not for lower level classes? I prefer to learn new movements by counting the beats out. This helps me remain connected to the music while I’m learning, but most of my classes use things like “rock LEAD” or “triple LEAD.”

I watched a YouTube video where the instructor told leads to remember that you are usually leading on even beats. That seems a lot easier to remember than by thinking about the step sequence. Now when I learn tuck turns, it’s been helpful to notice that I feel the compression with my partner on the 4.

Does this change or is it all the preference of the instructor?