/r/stjohnscollege
This is a community for anyone connected to or interested in St. John's College. Share news, photos, ask questions, and communicate with other members of the SJC community.
There is no other college quite like St. John’s. Through sustained engagement with the works of great thinkers and through genuine discussion with peers, students at St. John’s College cultivate habits of mind that last a lifetime.
The St. John’s College program in Liberal Arts is based on great texts of:
Through conversation about timeless books, students wrestle with enduring questions of human existence.
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/r/stjohnscollege
I currently go to a college in NC where I’m in a program that studies the great books a bit like St. John’s. One of my teachers there is Dr. Cook, who previously taught at St. John’s Santa Fe sometime in the 2000’s before coming to the school I’m at now. I was wondering if anyone here knew him or had any good stories? He’s one of my favorite teachers and I’m sure others share the same opinion.
I am just curious if there is any update why he was fired. There seems to be a lot of rumors, I don't know if it's worth asking but thought I would anyway.
Happy Thanksgiving!
I am a prospective student (as it may have been seen in my previous post), and this is a question that I frequently have when I am reading from the Great Books curriculum. I feel like there is no wrong answer to my question, and I also feel like Johnnies would have insightful answers.
Currently, in preparation for a seminar, I am reading part 1 of Gulliver's Travels. I can't say I am a huge fan of Gulliver, I find his character grating in many regards, but one specific part brought up the question for me. After Gulliver is well fed by the Lilliputians (he eats all of they're food and they are shocked at how much food he eats), he has an opportunity to escape, but he chooses not too, citing the fact that they just fed him. Like he said, he could have ran, and certainly could have escaped, but he chose not too.
This idea interests me, the idea of social/cultural law. There are choices we make and "laws" we follow, even though we certainly don't have too (Sort of like John Locke and the social contract). Certainly, we follow government laws like, not committing arson, but what about the laws that have no consequence if we break them?
As a silly example, my classmate drops they're pencil, and multiple people go to pick it up for them. There's no consequence for not going to help my classmate, but I feel obligated to grab they're pencil and give it back to them. Why? Why does my class (and I) follow this social law?
Aside from reasons like safety, and not getting arrested, why do we follow law?
Thank You :)
I saw some comments on this sub about people’s negative experiences with tutors belittling people and about competitiveness. I just want to share that I also experienced these things at the college. There’s all kinds of wonderful idealistic sounding stuff that’s advertised on the website and the disconnect from what actually happens in the classroom can be shocking. I had a tutor who would identify in a self-pitying way with all the narcissistic characters in the books and would ask the class for help on how to evade getting punished by people who knew he was abusive. Other tutors would complain in class about wanting to feel wanted, or envying the confidence or the abilities of others. I felt very isolated when all my classmates would react like all these things were normal.
Reading is fun, but being supervised, forced interaction, and social status hierarchy really sucked. I’m sure some of you feel the same way so I thought I’d share so you don’t feel alone.
Both of my parents were Johnnies from the 90s, and I attended Summer Academy. However, I am sure that SJC is at least a little bit not like it was when my parents graduated in 1997, and that Summer Academy must have been a little curated (I loved it and it changed my perspective on college at the ripe age of 15 even though I preformed poorly in seminars). I got accepted and I'm feeling optimistic!
As current (or former Johnnies) what do you think I need to know about SJC, that may or may not have been revealed to me when I visited or from how my parents (very positively) talk about SJC?
Thank You :)
Hi all, I'm at a bit of a crossroads and would really appreciate your thoughts.
I’m currently finishing a certification program that allows me to work as a medical lab technician (MLT), though I already hold a bachelor’s degree in microbiology. I chose the MLT path because it combines my love for science with patient care—working as an MLT feels like an applied version of microbiology, and I find it deeply rewarding.
For a while, I’ve been dreaming of going to St. John’s College (I attended the summer academy on scholarship as a teenager), and I’ve always loved the idea of studying in a Great Books curriculum with like-minded individuals. Now that I have my "practical" degree, I’m in a position to fund this dream, provided I live frugally.
Here’s where I’m stuck:
I’ve heard it is an option to pursue a second bachelor’s degree at St. John’s. This appeals to me because it which would allow for a deeper dive into the curriculum-I want to go through the rigor of working math at its core and learn Greek fundamentals. The thoroughness of it is what attracts me.
Alternatively, there’s the graduate institute. I know that it offers a condensed version of the Great Books curriculum. Because it's much shorter in duration, I’m unsure if it would offer the same depth and breadth of learning that the full undergraduate program would.
I’m torn between the two options because I’m worried that while the graduate institute might be faster and the smarter option on paper, it might not offer the same depth of education as the full bachelor’s program.
Wondering from folks who have experience with St. John’s:
I’m really hoping to get your thoughts on whether you think the graduate institute will give me the same intellectual satisfaction as a four-year program? Would I be sacrificing too much in terms of depth and learning by going the grad route?
Has anyone been through something similar, or have any advice based on their own experiences?
I know that I should be concerned with money-but I also think in the grander scheme of a lifetime, I wouldn’t regret making sacrifices now while I’m able. I imagine as I progress in my career I will find it harder and harder to take time away to read books and discuss them with peers. Based on rudimentary calculations I should be able to live comfortably if I budget, as I don’t need much to be happy. Words of caution/advice also welcome.
Thanks in advance for your help!
guys i live in bangalore. ive been here for 17 years (when i was 11 months old, my parents brought me here.) im in 12th and giving my pre boards-1 right now. and im looking for colleges. i tried in christ but its only open for nri's right now so is it the same for st josephs as well? shall i wait till december?
Hi St. John's community,
I'm a reporter with the Capital Gazette. St. John's released a report that detailed the college history with slavery. Are there any students who can speak to what the report means to them and what reaction they expect from the administration? text me: 443 690 7205
Now I don't think there's any number of hours that would deter me, I don't mind long hours at all and study is something I generally enjoy. I'm mostly just curious, as I really like knowing things in advance and writing up information for myself. So how many hours per week do students generally study who do well? I read the thing about 2-3 hours of homework per work hour, but that both seems insane, as it would imply 60-80 hours per week which is criminal, and it's contradicted by other stats I read. Also, St John's is so unconventional I assume it wouldn't really be the same. Anyways, this is a lot of rambling to ask the very simple question; "If I want to do well, how much should I expect to spend studying/working per week?" Thanks!
I'm a prospective student very interested in St. John's but the only thing that worries me about attending the school is the high tuition prices. I know that the school is cheaper than most private liberal arts schools and gives out a very significant amount of financial aid and scholarships, but I'd still be paying much more in tuition that I can afford and take on a lot of student loan debt most likely. So I want to ask, how did low-income students do after graduating from St. John's? Would you say the connections and opportunities you gained benefited you and your career afterwards? Would you say the tuition was worth the education? Have you been able to handle the student loan debt?
Hello! I am thinking about St. John's College, as its educational philosophy is quite appealing to me. However, I am a bit wary of the mathematics curriculum; namely, there does not seem to be any coverage of modern algebra, a subject which I am quite interested in. I would like to know, then, whether modern algebra (Galois theory, group theory, ring and field theory, etc.) is covered at all in any classes at St. John's.
For those of you in or exploring the graduate institute: how have you navigated the financial aid conversation? The sticker price of the program appears to be ~45k. I've always heard paying for grad school is a bad idea. I'm not sure I have a strong enough application to receive substantial merit scholarships. I'm also really looking at this program to compliment a health sciences degree to bring the human experience articulated through great books to the forefront of patient care.
I applied through a discussion-based application. My seminar is scheduled for November 10th, and I don't know what to prepare. Any tips?
Since I was a kid, I've wanted to attend St. Johns. The classical curriculum looks amazing and I really like the idea of classes being discussion-centered. I was classically educated and love conversation and diversity of thought and experience. I'm applying to St. Johns today, and it's a strong contender on my college list.
So why am I hesitating? My mother, who has always wanted me to go to St. John's, now worries that it is too "woke", and now my family isn't a fan of the school. To me, this sounds good, as opposed to a conservative Christian school.
For reference, I'm a Christian, but I lean liberal politically (unlike most of my family, where some of my opinions cause arguments). I'm not worried that I would fit in at St. Johns, but I do wonder what it's like to be a Christian on campus. I don't want to go to a college like Hillsdale that claims to encourage diversity but in reality is a conservative monoculture. It's really important to me to listen to everyone's views, and I feel like St. Johns genuinely encourages freedom of thought. My faith is very central to my life, but many of my friends aren't Christian, which has never been a problem. Sometimes we talk about faith because it's an interesting conversation but there's never any arguments or pushing on either side, it just makes the friendship more interesting. I enjoy being around people with different beliefs. It really doesn't matter to me if the majority of campus are not Christians, as long as there is a small group of people where I can find a few friends who are Christians.
Two questions:
Hi everyone! I’m an international student from a UWC school, and I’m considering applying to St. John’s (likely Early Action) However, I’m a little uncertain about what type of students are typically drawn to the school.
I was recently on a Zoom call with other prospective students, and while I got a good sense of how passionate everyone is about learning, it felt like most of them were really on the “nerdy” side (and also a bit abrasive and 'woke'). I also noticed the majority of them were female, which surprised me a bit - as I thought sjc was like 50% female and 50% male.
I’d love to hear from current students or recent alumni. Are people here really intense about academics? What is the community culture? And whats the party scene like?
Over the summer, I visited the Annapolis campus, and I really did like it, but of course, the school wasn't in session, so I didn't know what to expect.
Any information would be useful!
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I have never posted on Reddit. I would like to make a post now.
TL;DR: I want to go to St. John’s College, but I am unsure if I would like to enter into the Graduate Institute or earn a second bachelors from the Program.
Quick Fun Facts:
Non-Academic Background:
Academic Background:
I am not wanting to enter into the workforce to start yet another career. I am highly interested in stepping into academia. My current academic background is weak in both rigor and in math and science. I wish to earn a PhD in an unknown field later. St. John’s Graduate Institute seems great if I continue into humanities at higher levels. I am unsure if that’s where I want to go. I reckon the Program, while not the conventionally-wise choice, would provide academic challenge but also help me clarify where I want to go in academia in the future—if at all. I want the sciences to still be open to me, for now!
Soundboard: Where shall I go?
PS: I am pretty darn set on wanting to go to St. John’s (:
I joined the United States Air Force at 18 years old. I am 30. I have spent 12 years enlisted and I have no regrets, but I have made the choice to voluntarily separate what most would deem as a rather successful career. But first, who am I? I am from a small southern town in Louisiana that is easily missed on any map. I grew up in a town where everyone knew everyone. I attended the K-12 school. I went to one of the worst high schools in the state of Louisiana, in the not-much-bigger neighboring town, and I had zero aspirations to go to college. The military always fascinated me so I committed and entered into the Air Force. 18 year old me would only bawk at the things I have been able to experience. I was an aircraft mechanic for my first 9 years. I became an instructor of Professional Military Education for 2 years then I moved on to an Innovation Lab for a few months. I am back in my original job of aircraft maintenance but I am now a Senior Non-Commissioned Officer: E-7 (Master Sergeant). I made rank very quickly. I made rank the first time every time and this has been both a blessing and a curse. You see, as you gain more rank, you gain more responsibility. At some point, you stop being a frontline supervisor (and leader), and step into more managerial roles. I am now a mid-tier manager and this will be my career path—would have been my career path—for another 8 years.
It’s an unorthodox approach to separate at 12 years. We can retire with full pension at 20 years of service so after the 10 year mark, what is called “crossing the hump,” it is pretty rare for someone to separate. Even more so for a SNCO to separate. I have been lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time; I got to go on many deployments and exercises to hone my craft and this led to promotions and recognition. I traveled the world and I have had the privilege to see many things. This is the “success” that I was talking about earlier. However, in the last few years of my career, I have been rather unhappy. My days are filled with countless emails, group chats, phone calls and administrative work that zaps my energy. I miss the days where I was actively using my brain, thinking and problem solving to fix fighter aircraft, but those days are long gone. Thus, with no animosity toward the military or my career, I have come to terms that Andre must separate. This isn’t a new chapter of the same book. No, this is a completely separate book, one where I believe St. John’s will be the opening chapters!
I have an Associates of Applied Science in Aircraft Maintenance Technology from the Community College of the Air Force. This isn’t worth much. I have an Associates of Arts in General Studies/Psychology from the University of Maryland Global Campus (UMGC). This is worth more but not by a considerable amount. Finally, I have a Bachelors of Arts in English with a minor in Philosophy from UMGC. This is where the crutch of my choice lies. UMGC, while it’s a great option for non-traditional working students, those wanting to check the box, is not academically rigorous by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, the degree was quite easy; I finished with a 4.0 and while I put in extra effort, because I genuinely enjoyed a bit of the material, there were many times where I wanted more intellectual depth. I wanted more challenge. Like let me read Shakespeare and Milton in more depth and discuss it with some cool people yo!! This is a head nod toward my current administrative work; it lacks meaning and depth.
As I stated previously, I did a 2 year stint as an instructor, where I taught andragogy style i.e., I facilitated discussions not unlike how St. John’s administers their classes. I freaking loved it! It’s been a highlight of my career and I cherish the moments with my students more than they know. I also loved being a student, both when I was in the course myself and a student among my students, as an instructor. It honestly just felt like being in a dope podcast everyday with 14 other people. This is when I knew I should consider a future in academia, or at least start exploring more possibilities in this realm. The first step would be to actually go to college in-person. I have a longing to experience the classroom (and no, not the 100+ person lectures of some institutions.)
My personal framework is to be a scholar, a modern day Renaissance Man-Woman-Person, so to speak. I am not going to be another sausage in the education system, being told what to think and repeating ideas that are not mine, facilitating other people’s work who I may not even agree with or understand. I want to learn how to think. I want to be able to be an independent citizen of the world and organize my thoughts accordingly. I want to be able to communicate them at the highest level that I possibly can. I would love to mentor again, at some point. Perhaps teach as well. Other than the direction of being a lifelong learner and working toward academia, I do not have any concrete goals (okay, a PhD though). My long term goal is to be able to make someone better every day; that falls under many umbrellas.
I am in an exploratory phase. The idea of starting another “career” after leaving a 12 year “successful” career is very uninteresting to me. It’s gross. Sure, it’s a logical choice, given my background, but I have always been a different sort of thinker … so no, I am not interested in starting another career. It feels like stepping off of one treadmill to hop onto another one. Gross.
This is what has drawn me to St. Johns. All of the things I have read, from Reddit, to other forums, have only solidified the notion that St. Johns is a place that I would like to experience and hopefully contribute back to in the long term. Once again, I am a thinker. I am a learner. I am wanting—craving—an education that will be different from the mainstream sausage factories. Let me contradict myself. I said that I have no concrete long term goals, and that is trueish, but I would like to get a PhD and do high-level … yup. Enter: research, consulting, policy, writing, innovation, science, thinking, thought leadership, flipping burgers, non-profit etc. You get it, you get it.
Something to note is that this education, and I am very grateful for this, will be free. If I align my Veteran Benefits correctly, I can get 7 to 8 years of free education. So the cost of institutions are not a huge concern for me. The concern is mostly time and effort. Actually, I dislike viewing it as effort. Time and outcome. I am focused on the outcome of my future education; the effort will be effort no matter what. The outcome is what matters.
The meat and potatoes of why I wanted to post.
I have always loved reading and writing, so I leaned heavily into the humanities, but I am lacking a well-rounded education. My current math and science background is 100-level and even that is being conservative; it’s high school level. I have studied science on my own, but I wish to experience it more. Enter: the Program. My intuition hints to me that even though it may seem like a “step back” to get another bachelors degree, the academic rigor of the Program is exactly what I may need at this point in my life. It’s a step back to make many leaps forward in the future. I know UMGC is not heavily weighted and many credits probably wouldn’t even transfer over to high-level graduate programs. Unless I do an MBA like everyone else, but once again: gross.
Now this is where I want some feedback: my reasoning here is that if I wish to be a true scholar, and to step into academia proper, then enrolling into St. John’s Program would be a good choice. 4 years of a rather rigorous education, honing my thinking and communication, reading the Great Books, among other things, is no easy task and to most people is the unconventional choice. Indeed, most advice, when asking about rather or not to get a second bachelors degree, especially one where you have to complete an entire 4 year stint (again), would be a hard NAY. This in itself, being the unorthodox person that I am, makes me lean toward the Program. I’m a rebel and a risk taker—what can I say! However, I must say that the logical choice, moving toward a Graduate program does weigh on me. The conventional advice, the advice that is influenced by contemporary society, all point in that direction. There must be some truth to it, right? Maybe. Maybe not.
Either way, my current academic background is lacking. If I enroll in the Graduate Institute, I am sure I will learn much and have a positive experience, but I fear that I will be closing many doors to myself. I aspire to get a PhD. It would be wonderful to do high-level academia. I am interested in science, cognitive science, physics, and much more. I would like to keep as many doors open to me as possible and specializing more with a literature graduate degree doesn’t seem to be a wise move from me at this moment. But I am ignorant, perhaps I am not seeing things as clear as could be?
Repeating myself more here, I fear that finishing with the Graduate Institute would lock me in to a path that I am not ready to be locked into just yet. I would like to explore more science, engineering, math, physics, etc., before I lock myself into literature too hard. I obviously don’t know what I want to be an academic specialist in and perhaps I will always want to be a generalist, but I know I at least want to be a generalist right now. I know that I could knock out non-degree seeking credits in math and science, but then I would potentially miss out on the real beauty of a St. John’s education … methinks.
Where shall I go? Edit in new slang: what’s up chat, where should I go for max academic aura in the long term, no cap?
Best Regards,
AF—
PS: If this didn’t make any sense then my apologies. Sometimes I just need to soundboard my thoughts.
St. John's has always been on my radar, as my parents were both johnnies, but I didn't end up applying as a senior in high school because, frankly, I didn't know WHAT I wanted and kind of just applied to a bunch of random East Coast schools. Now I'm a freshman at William & Mary, an objectively good school, and while I don't hate it here, I'm really realizing that what I want is St. John's. So, I'm very strongly considering applying to the January Freshman program. I'm wondering if anybody who's done it in the past few years can give me some insight into what it's like, how difficult it is, if it's very isolating, etc. I haven't been able to find many people's experiences that weren't from like 10 years ago (not that it necessarily has changed, but I would want to know either way!)
tl;dr Can any recent-ish Febbies tell me what the experience was like?
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Hi! I'm a high school senior who is applying early action St. John's Annapolis campus it is one of my top choices. However I'm nervous that I may not like the program. Is there any way to if you would like the program before applying? I like the idea of it but how would I that I would like in practice. I having thinking going to one of the overnight insights things/ going on a campus visit but it would harder for me to go because I live on the west coast of the US. Thank you for any tips or advice you chose to give.
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I am in a space where I am preparing for PhD applications this upcoming year. I have heard that some people think this program is helpful in building critical thinking skills which would be helpful for a PhD, but I'm not sure if I necessarily need to go through an MA program to build this. What do you think?
Hello everyone!
This is probably my top college, but I'm nervous to apply early decision because I don't know if my family can take on the financial burden. To make it clear, my family makes around 100k per year. ( Five people household) I know this is actually quite a bit, but a lot of colleges tend to believe that we can pay around 50k, when, in reality, those expenses are used for a plethora of things. Groceries, vet bills, hospital bills, and even physical therapy bills from rear-ending weigh down on us. Can anyone whose family makes a similar amount or is just merely knowledgeable about the topic help me out here?
Also, can anyone be straight up with me? Is this college worth it? Maybe I should make another post but I'm unsure how St. John's College really works. I understand the basics, but if I were to graduate where would I go from there? I'm applying to state schools with a major in anthropology/archaeology. Will this college truly be a good foundation? Seeing the 65% graduation rate is startling to me.
Thank you for your time!
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I'm a Californian going to community college hoping to transfer over to a 4-year institution in the future. Any SJC students who transferred from California (or any out of state transfers) willing to tell me about their experience? I've never lived in the east coast & wondering what it's like for someone from west coast culture acclimating to east coast culture both urban & academic. Where did you transfer from? What were the courses you took (if any) that are required & accepted to transfer? What was your living situation like & how would you consider rent in MD compared to CA? Your experience making friends etc.
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