https://www.worldofreel.com/blog/2024/12/21/warner-bros-nervous-about-superman-after-private-screening-its-kind-of-a-mess

So, I’m stuck on a three-hour drive and thought I’d use this time to genuinely share how I’ve felt as a fan of the DCEU since the beginning. Reddit can be a bit of a hivemind, but it also suffers from massive collective amnesia. I just wanted to put my thoughts out there.

Let’s rewind to 2011, when Man of Steel was announced with that epic Lord of the Rings music in the teaser. The internet went wild, as did people I knew in real life. This was just after The Dark Knight trilogy, which had opened the floodgates to adapting superheroes in new, nuanced ways. These weren’t just 1:1 comic book adaptations, but rather bold, cinematic interpretations by Hollywood giants.

For many of us, Man of Steel (MoS) was supposed to be the first entry into a fresh, new cinematic universe—one that prioritized telling its own story before diving into world-building and sequels.

When MoS released, it was divisive. Both fans and critics had their issues, but much of the backlash seemed focused on how Zod was handled, not so much the tone or color grading (which, ironically, are the things people often complain about these days). Some fans complained that Superman wasn’t happy enough, but I think they missed the entire point. This was a more grounded, realistic portrayal of Superman, one I could believe could exist in our world. You can’t please everyone—if you try, you’ll please no one. This applied to both the character and the film itself.

Then came the start of the cinematic universe. Zack Snyder was out there in interviews, leading people to believe he was in charge of a larger collective. But here’s the thing: Zack Snyder was never truly in charge of the DCEU as a whole. His only credits are directing Man of Steel, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (BvS), Zack Snyder’s Justice League (ZSJL), and a story credit for Wonder Woman (WW).

Every project leading up to Justice League was greenlit by Warner Bros., which at the time was run by Jeff Robinov. After the negative reception to BvS and Suicide Squad (SS), Warner Bros. brought in Geoff Johns to "save the day."

Geoff Johns' involvement caused a lot of issues. It led to a clash with Snyder’s vision for Justice League, and the chaos around the film’s reshoots became infamous—there were even reports of Ben Affleck trying to convince the cast to walk out. This mess likely also led Ben to step away from directing a Batman film. With micromanagement from the studio, he didn’t want his name on a product he didn’t fully control. I also think Ray Fisher got caught in the crossfire of all this behind-the-scenes turmoil.

Geoff Johns is a big reason we didn’t get Ben Affleck’s Batman. He’s also why Wonder Woman 1984 didn’t land as expected and why the theatrical release of Justice League was a disaster.

But hey, we got Birds of Prey, right? Everyone loved that movie—definitely wasn’t divisive at all (sarcasm, of course). After his projects bombed, Geoff Johns stepped down, and we got Walter Hamada, who gave us gems like:

• Shazam 2
• Black Adam
• The Flash
• Aquaman 2

Multi-million-dollar hits, right?

Hundreds of people worked on the DCEU, but for some reason, a lot of blame is put on Snyder, who was just doing the job he was hired for.

Also, it’s kind of funny that people credit James Gunn for Scooby-Doo. Are we really going to start bringing writers into debates too? Man of Steel was written by David S. Goyer, and the death of Zod? His call. The infamous "Martha" scene in BvS? That was Goyer and Chris Terrio’s idea.

Interestingly, a lot of people who disliked BvS seem to enjoy ZSJL, which makes me wonder if maybe Goyer’s writing—not Snyder’s direction—was the real problem for a lot of people. Ultimately, Zack Snyder was hired to direct a film based on a greenlit script.

Sorry for the rant, but I had to get this out. I'm sick of seeing fake fans in DC_Cinematic right now, when for years thats where i went to talk about how much i loved these early films.

And for the record: I want James Gunn’s Superman to succeed. Hopefully, we’ll get a good Superman film when the studio doesn’t meddle with it. No more questions like, “But how will he get back to Krypton if you destroy his pod?”—like they did during MoS’s production, conveniently forgetting that Krypton was destroyed at the start of the film.

i don't know about hollywood bullshit and anything, i only care about acting and what i see. i don't read comics, i aon't a fat neck beardy guy who watches fan fics, listens to theories of what ifs in super hero movies or comics, i am a simple guy who enjoys movies and i really enjoyed man of steel due to variety of reasons. i don't know about russel crowe, but he did great voice over while explaing to kal-el " they will join you in the sun, kal. they will stumble, you will give them hope and etc. " i really felt touched and felt like a real father spoke to me ( my father died before i saw superman man of steel ). i loved how henry cavil really showed true emotions when he asks zod ( while snapping his neck ) " don't do this this...STOP!!! * snaps neck* " i really felt he had pain to kill one of his own. Ofcourse, the first flight of superman scene is chefs kiss with hans zimmer music was jaw dropping, i felt the scene.

Now the teaser, was just the new superman doing a YAMCHA pose as the first scene Bleeding with his freaking trunks out? like why, why can't all the directors and movie makers understand, that WE DO NOT WANT TO SEE the strongest alien on earth wearing childish cloths just to impress children, that formula is old due to fact that marvel had already done and gone past behind it, even marvel are finding it difficult to bring the same magic they did in avengers and you KNOW WHY THAT IS? because the people who used to cheer for them HAVE FUCKING GROWN OLD, GEN Z WAS THE BIGGEST AUDIENCE THAT MADE MARVEL AND DCEU FAMOUS. THEY HAVE GROWN FUCKING OLDER NOW, THEY ( MYSELF INCLUDED ) DO NOT LIKE CHILDISH JOKES ABOUT EVERY SINGLE THING.

superman man of steel was a serious movie which made it stand out than other marvel projects and that's what most people liked it, it was mature, devoid of colors and no shitty comic book reference, i didn't even feel like i am watching a comic book adapted movie, due to the fact, it just seems like a serious movie where an alien crash landed on earth and learned to live among people and grew up to save them. you could take away super man's suit and it would still be a standalone movie that is cool aabout an alien.

Alas, new super is going to suck ( i hope it does ) and james gunn should be fired and sent back to marvel to make marvel bleed money.

https://youtu.be/KRGHnwnHQ8o?si=9doDe7rOfnU-Njbp

I saw Man of Steel when it came out in theaters and I enjoyed it but I have only seen it a couple of times since. I have always struggled to understand a few things I've heard and I would like to see if I could get some clarification.

1. Why is the appeal for you personally of Henry Cavill's Superman? Is it his appearance or his personality in the movies? I found his personality boring in his Superman take. I couldn't understand the appeal so I have always assumed it is possibly a combination of the following:

A) The appearance because he is good looking.

B) The suit because it looks like it takes itself more seriously. The muscles are obviously enhanced for the suit so they would pop against the rubber suit, but they look okay in the suit.

C) People like having others take seriously the things that they enjoy and by liking a serious take on Superman that doesn't exactly mirror the comics, it makes them feel as if what they like isn't a nerdy joke but something serious.

2. If you knew someone with the personality his Superman has, would you be friends with them? Not the real personality of the actor, but would you enjoy being in the company of the Clark Kent we see in the movies?

3. Do you believe the suit had no muscles added to it to pop or do you actually believe muscles could simply show like that through rubber? I've heard the argument before and even heard the argument that not only do his real muscles pop out through the suit but that he also weighed 220 pounds or 99.7 kilograms in the movie when every article released about his size for the movie indicated he was around 190 pounds or 86.18 kilograms.

I look forward to your responses! Since this is just questions, there is no reason anyone at all should give this post even a single downvote. If you do, explain why.

I've never seen any fandom where the prevailing "culture" online considers them open season to harass, bully, insult and defame. If you substitute any other group in for Snyder fans and have people treating them the same way we are often treated, it is absolutely textbook bigotry. Yet the actual toxic fans gaslit everyone else into thinking the fanbase that raised an absurd amount of money for suicide prevention are the toxic ones. Make it make sense.

The new Superman trailer looks ghastly and terrible throughout. They saturated the image so much but there's still 0 vibrancy so nothing pops, it just makes the whole thing look flat and ugly. The trailer feels like a fan film or a cheap CW show even though the movie has such a huge budget. This is terrible! Gunn has no cinematic eye. He's also working with the cinematographer of The Flash which also looked awful, and it seems like he's doing the same style for this movie with using the wide angle lenses for every single shot.

Compare that with Man of Steel which is such a beautiful movie to watch. So many good shots and amazing colors. People complain sometimes that the movie is desaturated but it fits the tone and there's still lots of great colors in the movie. Orange and Teal are used constantly in the movie and that has been scientifically proven to be the most pleasing color combination to the human eye. Snyder was a real filmmaker with a cinematic style and was making movies that deserved to be seen on the big screen. Gunn should go back to directing streaming shows like Peacemaker.

I believe in voting by your wallet, I'm not okay with how wb treated zack and cavill and I don't like gunn, so why would I as someone that supported the snyderverse and wanted it restored financially support these new films?

I don't think there's a chance that superman will flop unfortunately, superman is a huge name that will always bring in audiences, but I think there is a chance it strongly underperforms, which in the eyes of the studio, will be just as bad

Wb underestimates just how big of a fanbase snyder has and many ppl like myself won't be supporting these films

I am hoping for a miracle though that it's a massive flop that kills the gunnverse

But yes I realize those odds are slim, still regardless I won't be opening my wallet to see any gunnverse dc film in theaters

This was such a great scene. The hopes of parents that their kids will go off to do great things. This idea resonates with me.

This is a genuine curiosity for discussion on this subject.

I myself, as a fan of the SnyderVerse, have my reservations about Gunn’s Superman, but I do not wish nor am I confident in the notion it will bomb. I think, perhaps, there is a real chance it could succeed. Especially if the trailer is an accurate representation of the tone of the movie and it’s not just your typical Gunn movie of silly irreverence.

DC has had a really tough time as of late, there is no denying that. Literally SIX box office bombs in a row - The Suicide Squad, Black Adam, Shazam 2, The Flash, Blue Beetle, Aquaman 2, and Joker 2, which is an atrocious track record.

But as far as Superman is concerned, there is a chance it could succeed.

Superman is not in the same predicament as The Suicide Squad, for example - the streaming date release no doubt hurt its box office chances a bit, and the movie itself had no broad appeal (a vulgar, violent, irreverent R-Rated sequel/loose reboot to the extremely derided 2016 Suicide Squad).

Superman by default has broad appeal. People WILL see a Superman movie. So even if the movie is terrible, it will have that slightly shielded safety net (though it’s not foolproof, granted).

Next is James Gunn’s track record. Love him or hate him, he’s usually able to churn out well received, critical-appealing movies - all his three of his Guardians of the Galaxy movies, including the one-off Christmas special, are well received, and all three of his DC projects thus far - The Suicide Squad, Peacemaker, and Creature Commandos - are in the 80-90 percent range, so it’s unlikely Superman will receive bad critic reviews. And I know critics have a bad reputation, but when it comes to blockbuster movies, their reviews usually don’t hurt to have on one’s side. Unless the movie/show itself is a political or religious hot spot, which Superman will [hopefully] not be.

Also, this isn’t just any Superman movie, but the start of a Whole new universe. So casual audiences are bound to at least be curious to see what’s up. That novelty certainly won’t be long lasting if the movie is terrible as word of mouth, especially in this social media age, spreads fast (Joker2 is a prime example of that). But great word of mouth can also spread fast, so if Superman is a generally well received and crowd pleasing movie, it can grow legs.

There is the “spin” that’s worth taking into consideration. Movie studio execs, producers and filmmakers lie all the time about a movie’s budget or box office intake.

If a movie is a huge success, studio execs have been caught lying that it hadn’t made a profit so that they can avoid paying residuals to employees. And if a movie is a bomb, execs can spin it as a win, either to avoid falling into a culture war or so long as it makes a “respectable” number that looks good in board meetings. Especially since studios lie about the budget more times than not. So even if Superman cost in the 300 million range, they’ll say it cost 200 million.

If Superman makes Man of Steel numbers for instance in the 650-660 million range, that can most certainly be spun as a win. And if it makes more, then most definitely it can climb into the profitable category. And that’s enough to continue onward with the DCU.

If it makes less than Superman Returns - under 390 million - then there’s no chance it can spun as a win. However, there are still confirmed DCU projects in the works like Supergirl, Peacemaker Season 2, and Lanterns (as far as ones that actually have a cast/director/script - everything else can easily be cancelled) that will have likely been filmed/completed or be in the process of filming while Superman releases. So either way, some other DCU projects will come out and, if Superman flops, but is well liked and has a second life on blu-ray, streaming or download, they can sort of pick up the pieces of its leftovers and the universe can move along - granted, David Zaslav is notorious for canning Batgirl, despite already being filmed, so I guess it’s not impossible, though unlikely it happens.

Lastly, Gunn and Safran are not just directors/producers, but they’re in charge of the entire DC studio. They answer to Zaslav, but they’re not the type whom can just be booted out the door if they fail. Their contract will expire eventually, but they still have staying power to fight for their positions. So even if Superman bombs, they don’t automatically get shown the door.

And there’s just nothing of a guarantee or a hint that, if the entire DCU fails and Gunn/Safran are shown the exit that the natural next step would be to bring back Zack Snyder and co. to finish off his DC movies or start a new universe. If anything, it seems more likely that, if Gunn and Safran exit, the DC Universe itself will just be put on hold for a few years and they’ll just focus on Batman projects until some other passionate filmmaker comes in to pitch their take on the characters that WB think is a safe bet in investing in.

So TL;DR, I think, as of now - still early days - Gunn’s Superman has a fair chance at succeeding, making a profit, being well liked critically and/or at least being able to make enough of a box office spark that it could be spun as a win, even if it loses money.

Tactical suit (goggles and mask on)

Tactical suit (mask on)

Tactical suit (unmasked)

Tactical suit (goggles and mask on) with guns

Tactical suit (mask on) with guns

Tactical suit (unmasked) with guns

Hey guys, here’s my Batfleck Fanart from ZSJL, where he is seen with his tactical suit on. I tried my best to make it as movie-accurate as possible. With the exception of making the goggles and the cowl’s lenses whitish-cyan blue (hence being a little bit more comic accurate).

As for the guns, I tried to give him unique-looking ones to distinguish him, I know that Batman usually abstains from firearms. But Batfleck uses them actively due to being mentally messed up after the death of Robin (can’t remember if it was Dick or Jason), combined with his perspective of Superman being a worldly threat in the Black Zero event

That all being said, Batfleck isn’t my ideal version of Batman, but I still enjoy him as an alternate Batman variant.