Not sure if this post fits the subreddit, but...

I hear people say this a lot in response to men engaging in inappropriate behavior towards women. I'm currently debating on this with someone right now. I wanted to ask, what are all of your opinions on this? While I get what people are trying to get at with this, I personally find this statement dismissive. I feel like people are basically implying that men are not capable of acting inappropriately towards women, and it's only something that young boys do. Also, I feel like this statement could be used to excuse the behavior - "Oh, that's just a little boy, they don't know how to behave", that kind of thing. I also think that it undermines the seriousness of certain actions like catcalling, harassment, and other forms of abusive behavior as just immature actions by little boys; Nope, this is creepy and disgusting behavior. Not okay.

That's my opinion, but what are your opinions on this? Do you agree? Do you disagree?

Any genre and age-range welcome, though I'm sure a lot of us would prefer non-kids movies. If you see something you may want to watch btw use a combination of IMDB's parents guide, common sense media, and does the dog die to vet it ❤️ I'll start:

Anatomy of a Fall

2001: A Space Odyssey

Knives Out (there are some references to an affair and masturbation but nothing beyond that from what I remember)

12 Angry Men (haven't seen it yet but I keep seeing it recommended)

Dog Day Afternoon

Source Code

Quiz Show

Most if not all Miyazaki films (The Cat Returns is my favorite)

My male coworker saw a customer take a picture of my butt while I was turned around grabbing something. He didn’t say anything to him, but saw his phone follow me and snap a picture without me knowing.

Men do not view women as real people, just something for them to get sexual pleasure from.

I am a teenager and i have recently discovered this subreddit.... Even before discovering this i had a feeling that pornography was wrong and misogynistic... but after reading the arguments made here... i am fully convinced... so please guide me how to be a better man and a better person overall

Let's start with the common definition of revenge porn: sexual content released without a person's consent in order to humiliate that individual person as an act of revenge for a perceived slight.

Now let's consider the mainstream porn industry: painful and degrading sexual content produced using financial coercion to sell to sexually frustrated men who watch as an outlet for the aggression they feel when they see attractive women in their life or on social media etc. This is why it's no wonder why porn is rough by default - it is the concentrated sexual rage of many men in society being unleashed onto the bodies of the comparatively small number of women in porn. It is sex on steroids.

What I've noticed is that often, men's misogyny is relatively mild to porn performers and often they are even indifferent to them because they are only acting as sacrificial lambs on an altar of hate. The worst vitriol is often reserved for "normal" women. Just search "chav" on Reddit (British slur for working class people). These subs often get banned but then invariably spring up again. It's just for men to post pictures of attractive young women they believe to look "easy". The mods will make rules to keep the content and comments Reddit-friendly but if anything these rules just expose the true purpose of the subs - "no asking 'what would you do' " , no asking for DMs etc.

There's more porn online than one person could watch in a thousand lifetimes. These men could watch that, so why the existence of these chav subs, GW subs or [insertcelebrity]NSFW subs? Because some men get intimidated and angry at women taking any kind of perceived ownership of their sexuality, like putting up appealing photos on social media. So they get revenge by taking these photos and recontextualising them by posting them to an online masturbation album with degrading names and then having disgusting conversations about the women with other losers.

A paragraph I unexpectedly encountered in a book “Possessed” by Bruce Hood. It feels heavy on the heart.

Merhaba ismim Gülseli, Ege Üniversitesinde yüksek lisans öğrencisiyim kompulsif cinsel davranış bozukluğu ve/veya pornografi bağımlılığı olan 18 yaşından büyük bireyleri tez araştırmama davet etmek istiyorum kısacık bir formdan oluşmaktadır, tamamen gönüllülük esasına dayanmaktadır ve bilgileriniz anonim kalacaktır. İlginiz için şimdiden teşekkür ederim.

Araştırma linki: https://forms.gle/62sFj9pidC8FBnmP7

A bit of context: At the beginning of my relationship, I found some likes from my boyfriend on pictures of OnlyFans models. I got upset, and we talked about it. I’ve always been very clear about what bothers me, and I don’t like keeping things to myself. Months ago, we had a similar issue, but we’ve managed to move forward as a couple. However, at the time, the situation really resonated with me, and I was clearly affected. It led to negative thoughts about my current relationship, and I ended up spending several sleepless nights questioning everything about my relationship and overthinking.

Because of this, I decided to do a little investigation (a bit nosy on my part) where I analyzed the following lists of all the men I know who are in relationships. I ended up disgusted. How can they be so inconsiderate and shameless toward their partners? They have the most intelligent and kind-hearted women by their side, yet they can’t stop following half-naked women on social media. Everyone can manage their relationship as they see fit, but in my opinion, that’s a huge lack of respect toward their partner, as well as embarrassing behavior.

On another note, the porn-addicted mentality of men on Reddit is astonishing. They justify their addiction to porn as a “natural” instinct that all men supposedly have. It’s sad to see how that industry rots their brains from such a young age, normalizing practices that NO human being needs to survive. Recently, I discovered the existence of EasyPeasy, and out of curiosity, I decided to check it out. It’s incredible how many men genuinely need that book in their lives.

Anyway, thanks for reading this little venting message. This community makes me feel heard and validated—thank you all. :)

https://youtu.be/eBXFC5oXuto?si=N9hj2PNqVBhfTlgQ

Sofia Isella

All of her songs seem to be about misogyny and the experience of being a young woman in a pornified world. What do you think of the lyrics?

We were together for three years, and during that time, I had a high libido while he didn’t seem to match my energy. I could have accepted that if it weren’t for the fact that he replaced me with porn, which became the main reason he didn’t want to have sex with me (he never admitted it but it was so obvious).

In the final year of our relationship, every time we were intimate, he would go soft during sex, which was incredibly hurtful. I also began to feel that he had certain ideas about what a woman should look like. I was slim, but not particularly curvy, and those were the kinds of women he seemed to desire. It left me feeling worthless and unattractive, and I found it devastating. Ultimately, this became the reason we broke up, which was heartbreaking because outside of that, we were very compatible.

I have another boyfriend now and I have already talked to him about my fears regarding that and how I don’t want him to watch porn, which he seems to accept. But still part of me fears that he will treat me the same way my ex did. What worries me is that he seems to have a preference for “porn-like” sex (he likes rough sex, porn-like positions etc), which I suspect is because pornography is how many young men first learn about sex. This can lead to the assumption that women actually want or enjoy what they see in porn, but that’s far from the truth for many of us.

From my perspective, porn generally often portrays women being forcibly dominated by men, with all of her boundaries violated, her body objectified, and her “holes” used aggressively. It’s typically devoid of love, connection, or passion - it’s cold, hard, fake and purely mechanical. On top of that, a lot of it leans toward very perverse and often lolita-like and incestuous themes, which I find deeply unsettling.

Have anyone else experienced something similar before?

i understand that there are many women out there that like anal sex, but the vast majority don't. so much of the male-centred porn that features anal is all about 'painal', the faces of pain a woman makes being penetrated, the lack of pleasure she experiences as she just takes the abuse to her body while he gets off on it.

whenever you read stories on reddit about women who's partner wants to try anal, they are always hesitant and not excited, while the partner doesn't seem to care whether she wants it or not. he wants to use her body in whatever way he sees fit.

no shame to women who do sex acts that they enjoy but i believe men use anal as an act of humiliation and degradation and abuse and it's almost never about it being 'tighter', it's about domination.

Any time I criticise the sex industry, I’m met with backlash around how my criticisms are harmful to the workers. For example, when talking about how sex buying (by men) perpetuates the myth that men NEED sex etc. I’m told that I’m contributing to the stigmatisation of workers. Read any account from a man eg. I go to sw because I want to do things that I don’t want to do with my wife. Or, it wasn’t a good experience because are didn’t act like she enjoyed it etc.

I find this deeply frustrating as I find men’s use of sex workers/the reasons they give really dangerous. Yet somehow this gets met with accusation of ‘perpetuating harmful stereo types about the workers’ and thus adding to the violence. I’m so tired of that narrative. It is not my observation of the misogyny that is harmful, it is the misogyny of the male buyers that causes the harm!

I should clarify first that I do not approve of OF at all. It only further perpetuates the idea that women are commodities that can be bought. But man, I am frustrated by the absurd degree that these women are blamed for EVERYTHING outside of this subreddit. Mainly, the narrative that women who do OF are in fact predators who are taking advantage of vulnerable, lonely men. (Nevermind the fact that plenty of men who watch OF are in relationships.) Apparently men are in fact the victims being forced to engage in this behavior and thus should not be blamed for anything they have done.

I am just…so shocked by how common this stupid defense is. You can complain about OF being advertised constantly, but at the end of the day that cannot force you to watch it. You chose not to click out of it. You chose to pay for it. The least you could do is admit that you did something wrong too instead of putting all of the blame on these women. They did not crawl out of the computer screen and hold a weapon to your throat to force you to watch them.

It’s also a defense you see with men who visit sex workers. According to them, he did not willingly seek her out to have sex with her. I have seen men claim that sex workers “exploit men for money.” It makes me lose brain cells just hearing it. They are so desperate to be the victims. It’s like when men who watch OF will look at a rare case of a woman on OF making a ton of money and then claim that it’s unfair. If you hate it that much, why are you paying for it? Why are you actively supporting the industry?

What really gets me is…doesn’t this line of reasoning sound eerily familiar? It’s the classic “what were you wearing” question directed to SA victims. This idea that men have no control over themselves and if a woman gets assaulted, it was her fault for “tempting” him rather than his fault for, you know, deciding to torture someone. It scares me that this idea is still so mainstream.

What also gets me is that men who watch porn or OF are more likely to view women as objects, and therefore more likely to be misogynists. One of the most common things you hear from misogynists is that men are the rational, logical gender who can be trusted to make decisions, while women are emotional and controlled by their impulses. And yet these are the same men saying that they cannot be blamed for consuming porn or OF because they were…controlled by their impulses.

This doesn’t make sense. If men are the rational gender, then it should stand to reason that they are capable of controlling themselves and thus are responsible for their actions, including choosing to watch or visit sex workers. You can’t just claim that men are stronger than women mentally and emotionally and yet also claim that they’re just vulnerable innocents who should be infantilized and not held accountable for anything they choose to do.

This being an anti-porn feminist group, I think we all generally understand the intersection between patriarchy, misogyny and porn. I'm really surprised by how many women outside of this forum don't understand this when it's basic cause and effect.

I have spent some time learning about men who are described as addicts. The accounts are almost exclusively from women describing their problems being partner to an addict. The way the women describe a lot of the men suggests that they are almost certainly patriarchal conservative men. Not to stereotype, but a lot of the clues are their jobs, where they live, how they interact with women (servants or sex objects). (These factors point to a certain kind of worldview based upon statistics.). A lot of them invoke Jesus, Christianity or scripture as a means to lead these men out of their addiction habits. The men engage in persistent patterns of deception, entitlement (to sex and whatever other pursuits they want despite being bad for themselves and their marriage), abuse and aggression, while their female partners lament about feeling discarded both sexually and emotionally and less attractive than Internet prostitutes/actresses. They also express concern about the nature of the porn the men are using. All of these concerns are, of course, valid.

The women who won't or can't leave (I won't pass judgment on this), hyper focus on the problem being the porn (which is a problem!), but can't seem to connect the fact that this an almost expected consequence of being with a patriarchal conservative man. To them, women are either wives and mothers (less) or sex objects (less than human), never humans of equal value. These men certainly don't treat their wives like they are of equal value, or any value for that matter. Unfortunately, a lot of the women are socialized that they are not, in fact, valuable. So they overlook red flags, excuse, rationalize and....stay with these men. And it's almost universal that women who don't value themselves attract men who don't value women. The women devalue themselves so much that they have to ask if something their husbands did that was outrageously depraved is "normal". (Spoiler: Men will say yes, women who know their value will say no, conservative patriarchal women whose value is externally tied to the approval of men will say yes, they all do it. Boys will be boys.). They devalue themselves so much that they consider, and do, have more and more babies with these men. They devalue themselves so much that sometimes they allow their husbands to have sex with them or perform sex acts on them while the men watch porn. Internet porn has driven a lot of women to a whole new low devoid of self respect.

But we can't talk about how patriarchy and misogyny disempower women and drive them to these depths. Conservative women certainly don't want to hear it. If they need men to give them attention and approval in order to feel valuable, they're not going to pin the problem on men, or face the problem head on that there is a reason they are attracting this type of man. That realization might upend their entire sense of social hierarchy (especially the religious conservatives), and their entire worldview. If they rely on the men for financial security, they're even more likely to continue to uphold patriarchy and tolerate the behaviors, because dependence has a highly effective reality distortion filter, especially for those whose worth and empowerment is tied to being loved by a man. I know it's not always easy to leave, but some women are their own worst enemies.

The other thing I keep noticing is how they talk about porn addiction. No doubt it can be an addiction. But the men are coddled like victims in need of help and treatment rather than depraved douchebags who disrespect women and choose to implode their own lives out their own misogynistic entitlement. (It's just like how society treats school shooters. If he's a conservative white male, it's mental illness, but if he's not white, he's a criminal.). The women are so afraid to call it what it is: a choice they made and dug in deep, and are statistically unlikely to ever get out of. I have a lot of trouble mustering up sympathy when the subject here is a man who is as unsympathetic as they come.

So how do you help these women? Here's how you empower yourself so that you increase your standards and self worth and stop attracting misogynistic men? I doubt that will go over well. But I hate to see them suffer. I want to help them all. But hard truths are hard to hear.

I suspect that my boyfriend (30M) is consuming porn. At first, I didn't worry about it because his Facebook and Instagram feeds didn't show any suggestive content. However, one time I noticed a history entry on one of his apps for "R18 Real Sex."

I want to find out if he is indeed consuming porn and where else he might be getting it from.

Where should I start my investigation?

Thanks for your help.

Fck porn

My (41F) husband (43M) has a terrible porn addiction and also a terrible staring at women problem. He swears he feels nothing but he still does it even after I've asked him to not do it. He will try to be sneaky about it but I know his type he likes to look up and down at. So, as soon as I see one of those women walk by, I can turn and look at my husband and every time he is staring at them and looking them up and down. It is very degrading to me. I have had other women look at me and shake their heads at me like what a pig. I would love some help on this if anyone has it. We have 2 kids. They are 9 and 6 years old. The 9 year old is pretty delayed, autistic and kinda verbal. We've been together since 2013. He has had times in the past that I've found him chatting and flirting with women. We are trying to work on things but I just feel like he is still giving the bare minimum. He expects me to get over everything that he has done to me with the snap of a finger. That is hard when he does this. Any advice on things to say to him to get him to understand where I'm coming from? I tell him it doesn't make me feel comfortable but it still happens. He tells me he feels nothing when he looks at them but ironically that is exactly what he looks at for porn, so I don't believe that at all. Ugh... This just makes me sick.

Recently I have made a YouTube channel at the request of this sub to spread awareness around pornography.

I need help with a few video ideas so if you have any please feel free to message me or comment them

Obligatory no, I am not talking about every single one of the billions of men on planet Earth in this post. I am simply referring to the men who watch porn, which is unfortunately the majority.

You often hear men complaining about the negative stereotypes society has about them. For example, they hate that society assumes that the only thing men care about is sex, that men are incapable of not wanting sex, etc. They claim that this is because of us evil feminists, that this is misandry, and so on…

But whenever you see porn watchers talking about their addiction or seeing prostitutes, they always defend themselves by saying that porn stars and sex workers are the ones manipulating them. That men are just these poor, vulnerable people who are being taken advantage of by these women and cannot be held responsible for their actions. This implies that men are a bunch of sex-crazed maniacs who lose all control whenever they see a woman in a revealing state. This implies that men are incapable of not wanting sex or not thinking about sex. This is the exact stereotype they constantly complain about.

Even when it comes to worse stereotypes, you see the same thing. Men were complaining about the man vs bear debate, accusing society of falsely believing that all men would commit SA if they had the chance. Which wasn’t even the point of that debate, but also…these same men whenever we say we want to ban porn will often retaliate with “You can’t do that! Porn and sex work prevent SA by giving men an outlet!” This implies that all men are capable of committing SA if they aren’t given sexual access to women…which is exactly what they were just saying wasn’t true during the man vs bear debate.

And it gets better. Whenever we say that men need to stop watching porn and that their behavior is wrong, what is the response porn viewers usually have? “Oh, but you can’t blame or expect anything out of me--all men do it!” All men do it, huh? That phrase is directly encouraging stereotypes. It’s very, dare I say it, misandrist of you.

I am so sick of these men complaining that it’s because of the evil feminists that these stereotypes exist. Nope. They were the ones who fed us these stereotypes on a silver platter and then got mad when we took them to heart.

what exactly is this about? do people genuinely believe there’s such thing? i don’t understand how porn can be considered ethical on any level.

this was on a thread about not letting CHILDREN watch porn too. insane.

In

I’ve always found it a bit strange how paranoid a lot of men seem about being negatively compared by women to other men for how their bodies look sexually, their penis size, etc. I’m not saying this stuff never happens, but there’s this bizarre underlying assumption that ALL women are constantly thinking about that and judging them, comparing them, and so on.

The reason I find this bizarre is because…where exactly do they think women are getting this point of comparison? The only time I’ve ever seen an image of a naked man was an accidental jumpscare on Reddit that I immediately clicked out of in a panic. And I know most women are the same. We’re not seeking out pictures of naked men. The only time most women are going to see a man naked is from having sex, and plenty of us aren’t having regular hookups.

Again, I’m not saying judgment never happens, but this is certainly not enough for all women to have this huge mental catalogue of male body types and sizes that we are going to be comparing men to at any given time. Now I’m wondering if maybe this is projection.

After all, porn addicts have seen hundreds of images of different naked women over the years. They jerk off to them constantly, think about them over and over again, choose the categories with their favorite body types or features that they’re in the mood for, etc. All of this probably lends itself to a whole lot of comparison. So my theory is that these men end up subconsciously assuming that all women must have the same mindset as they do. They don’t realize that we aren’t regularly staring at images of various naked men everyday, and that we haven’t seen every single body type under the sun. The average man has seen a whole lot more different male bodies in his lifetime than the average woman has—but the reverse is not true.

Admittedly I don’t know much about this topic, but do you think there might be a connection there?