Given the oppression of the Sami people by the Finnish government, and the history of forced conversion to Christianity, Laestadianism seems like a fitting retort. Fine! We'll become Christians, but WE are the true Christians. The rest of you are going to hell. Take that!

Ex-FALC here. Do you guys think there will be more people who leave because they find out through the internet what the real world is actually like? I feel like if I didn’t have a phone or the internet while growing up I would be still in it.

I also don’t think it will ever die out because the families are just too large. Maybe OALC will surpass the FALC, if it hasn’t already?

I used to live in buffalo mn and now live in Montana.

I'm curious, because someone used the phrase on another post "if you sing those songs in X congregation, they would excommunicate you".

From what I've seen of OALC, they may ask preachers or others in official roles to step down, but otherwise it's more of an unofficial social shunning, people are still allowed to talk to you but are careful about any topics related to faith, etc.

Is that similar in the other Laestadian branches, or is there a more formal excommunication process?

When people in this forum mention excommunication, is it a casual phrase meant to cover social shunning, or a formal process?

Be well! 💕

I have heard there has been alot more mixing between these 2 congregations. I know there is resistance in Wolf Lake but what about in Spruce Grove? Is the SG congregation being shook up by these changes?

The Finnish Lutheran Church leans progressive left, with the government. All Finnish Lutheran ministers are part of, and subordinate to the State Lutheran Church. US Finns tend to be independent, traditional, conservative Americans. These different paradigms can cause divisions in the church.

Christ Jesus loves all His creation, no matter whether they agree or not. Believers are called to love their enemies, no less. We can disagree, and still love our neighbor in a Christian world view. Our heart will be where our treasure is, in any event, per Matt 6:19.

Love is a decision, a commitment and a resulting attitude and behavior. The Bible provides guidelines for a life pleasing to God. If we love Christ Jesus, we will live by His Word, per John 14:23. We can take it, or make up our own way, and suffer the consequences. Some will interpret the Bible to fit their narrative. The world can be cruel, and will teach. We tend to be self serving beings, in any event.

Victor Davis Hanson wrote a interesting article on 10/26/24, "10 Alarming Signs We are in the Middle of a Cultural Revolution".

Love this take on forgiveness. Definitely something I wish congregation members learned instead of the “forgiven is forgotten” teaching that keeps many people in unhealthy situations.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DBI9Br_RpIp/?igsh=MTUxM3EwczBvMGxkYw==

I grew up in the Laestadian Lutheran church and am still physically in mentally out. In the past year I have started doubting the teachings and doctrine of the church, and don’t agree with a lot of it. I haven’t talked to anyone about my beliefs and I don’t think anyone would expect me to leave.

I live with roommates that are in the church, so I’m scared to eventually have that conversation with them and then go on with normal life after. I also feel a lot of guilt thinking about telling my close friends and family that are in the church, because I know how much it will hurt them and I don’t want to cause that. I want to keep my friendships and relationships with them, but I’m afraid that I will lose all of that.

My question is, what can I do to make the transition a little easier once people start noticing that I’m starting to leave?

For anyone who has attended Opisto in the past at any of the three schools (Ranua, Reisjarvi, Jamsa) :

• How was your experience overall?
• What were some the parts you enjoyed?
• What did you not like about the experience?
• How was your experience making friends with both Am/Cans and Finns?
• How were the Finnish teens? How did they act? Was it like you had expected?
• How were the Americans/Canadians that you spent time with? Were they decent people? Did they assimilate well to Finnish culture?
• Were your personal beliefs about the church altered after going?
• How is Finnish Laestadian culture different than American Laestadian?
• What was your experience with the Finnish language? Was it easy to grasp?
• What were some of your favorite European/ maybe Asian countries you visited while on breaks/weekends?

Anything else you would like to add would be welcome as well! Thanks everyone in advance! I’ll be going to Reisjarvi Opisto in Finland next year and any comments will be greatly appreciated.

In the LLC at least, conformation school is talked up a ton. As far back as I can remember, kids were always talking about confo (confirmation) and how fun it would be. However, I found my experience to be very lack luster. I really enjoyed the lessons and the teachers were great as well as the Big Brothers and Sisters, but the kids that were at my camp were just straight up trash (and I’m not being self-righteous I know I have my own faults). They would straight up leave lessons to go VAPE and smoke and had extra phones with them. Phones are usually taken away at the beginning of camp and some of them brought extra ones. We were also told not to bring food into the sleep areas because the camp had a mice/rat problem and they brought food into the cabins. And I get that teenagers gotta be all “We’re not going to listen to authoritative figures” but come on guys, be respectful. And I don’t get why smoking/vaping are allowed at all in the church, they contain addictive substances same as alcohol and other drugs and they’re straight up NASTY and damage your health. Anyways feel free to call me a stuck-up BLEEP in the comments and share your thoughts if you have any. I don’t know, maybe I just ended up with the wrong batch. To be clear, not everyone at my camp acted like this but it was majority enough that it made an impact on my experience.

Also, a point I wanted to make about confirmation school: why ain’t it optional. Half the kids who go don’t actually believe and are just going because their parents signed them up. We don’t actually confirm our faith, we just all say “I do” on the last officiation day and no one gets to actually say if they believe or not.

The U.P. has excellent geography, pretty comparable to Constantinople really. Shouldn't be hard to bolster the occupying force, I predict a Lastaedian mayor of Houghton, Marquette, and Sault Ste. Marie within 30 years. Your decades are numbered, bunners. Be prepared.

𝐅𝐨𝐫 𝐭𝐡𝐨𝐬𝐞 𝐨𝐟 𝐲𝐨𝐮 𝐢𝐧𝐭𝐞𝐫𝐞𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐝 𝐢𝐧 𝐰𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐰𝐚𝐬 𝐝𝐢𝐬𝐜𝐮𝐬𝐬𝐞𝐝 𝐢𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐦𝐞𝐞𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠𝐬 𝐰𝐢𝐭𝐡 𝐖𝐨𝐥𝐟 𝐋𝐚𝐤𝐞 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐌𝐢𝐧𝐧𝐞𝐚𝐩𝐨𝐥𝐢𝐬 𝐡𝐞𝐫𝐞 𝐢𝐬 𝐰𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐖𝐨𝐥𝐟 𝐋𝐚𝐤𝐞 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐌𝐢𝐧𝐧𝐞𝐚𝐩𝐨𝐥𝐢𝐬

https://www.mllchurch.org/our-faith-1

Notice that this presentation doesn't recognize that the unified LLC/SRK/SFC congregation is the only congregation were the holy spirit resides. The whole Laestadian Luthern Church and almost every sermon is based around this fact so that is just blatant heresy.

Another heresy is they don't believe the LLC/SRK/SFC congregation exclusively has the keys to heaven. The Minnesota and Wolf Lake Laestadian Churches 𝐟𝐚𝐥𝐬𝐞𝐥𝐲 𝐩𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐜𝐡 𝐬𝐚𝐥𝐯𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐚𝐜𝐜𝐞𝐬𝐬 𝐭𝐨 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐡𝐨𝐥𝐲 𝐬𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐢𝐭 𝐢𝐬 𝐚𝐯𝐚𝐢𝐥𝐚𝐛𝐥𝐞 𝐭𝐨 𝐚𝐧𝐲𝐛𝐨𝐝𝐲 𝐰𝐡𝐨 𝐩𝐮𝐭𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐢𝐫 𝐭𝐫𝐮𝐬𝐭 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐟𝐚𝐢𝐭𝐡 𝐢𝐧 𝐉𝐞𝐬𝐮𝐬'𝐬 𝐰𝐨𝐫𝐤 𝐨𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐜𝐫𝐨𝐬𝐬.

Thirdly they don't believe the LLC/SRK/SFC congregations interpretation of the scriptures is error free. That is probably the worst heresy since that is discounting the holy spirit which is our source for this error free material.

Of less significance they don't mention the significance of absolution. Of course the holy spirit has revealed to the LLC/SRK/SFC congregation that absolution isn't a mandate for salvation, but rather a means of clearing the weekly prodigals consience so I don't know if this would actually be a heresey.

Many "professing christian" churches have correct faith and trust in Jesus, but the one thing their lacking is faith in the SRK/SFC/LLC congregation and its leaders. For this simple reason any "professing church, like Minneapolis and Wolf Lake, that doesn't have faith in the SRK/SFC/LLC congregation and its board appointed leaders are a heresy. Where do these professing churches get their "unified group will" without having SRK/SFC/LLC board appointed leaders to relay this information to their members?

𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐬𝐢𝐱 𝐠𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐭 𝐬𝐢𝐧𝐬 𝐨𝐟 𝐡𝐞𝐫𝐞𝐬𝐲 𝐟𝐢𝐥𝐥𝐞𝐝 “𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐟𝐞𝐬𝐬𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐂𝐡𝐫𝐢𝐬𝐭𝐢𝐚𝐧” 𝐜𝐡𝐮𝐫𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐬:

1. Use biblical terms like Kingdom of God in unbiblical ways. Say the kingdom of God includes Christians outside the SRK/SFC/LLC Congregation.
2. Preach that faith in Jesus alone will save you..
3. They teach that ministers that aren’t SRK/SFC/LLC appointed have the authority to proclaim the Gospel (good news about Jesus)
4. They say it is acceptable to engage or be entertained by competetive sports. Many fathers in “Professing Christian’ churches purposely keep their kids occupied with sports to distract them from worldly activities.
5. They say it is acceptable to watch televisions as long as what your watching is appropriate.
6. They don’t enforce ostracization requirements of unbelieving relatives and former members that now attend "Professing Christian Churches".

𝐈͟𝐭͟ ͟𝐢͟𝐬͟ ͟𝐩͟𝐥͟𝐚͟𝐢͟𝐧͟ ͟𝐚͟𝐧͟𝐝͟ ͟𝐬͟𝐢͟𝐦͟𝐩͟𝐥͟𝐞͟,͟ ͟𝐢͟𝐟͟ ͟𝐲͟𝐨͟𝐮͟ ͟𝐝͟𝐨͟𝐧͟'͟𝐭͟ ͟𝐛͟𝐞͟𝐥͟𝐢͟𝐞͟𝐯͟𝐞͟ ͟𝐭͟𝐡͟𝐢͟𝐬͟ ͟𝐬͟𝐭͟𝐚͟𝐭͟𝐞͟𝐦͟𝐞͟𝐧͟𝐭͟ ͟𝐲͟𝐨͟𝐮͟𝐫͟ ͟𝐚͟ ͟𝐡͟𝐞͟𝐫͟𝐞͟𝐭͟𝐢͟𝐜͟.͟
"Believing that the SRK/SFC/LLC (God's Kingdom) is a unique assembly of pardoned sinners or communion of saints 𝐈𝐒 𝐓𝐇𝐄 𝐊𝐄𝐘 𝐓𝐎 𝐒𝐀𝐋𝐕𝐀𝐓𝐈𝐎𝐍 and to 𝐃𝐎𝐂𝐓𝐑𝐈𝐍𝐀𝐋 𝐏𝐔𝐑𝐈𝐓𝐘." ℳ𝒾𝓃𝓊𝓉ℯ𝓈 𝒻𝓇ℴ𝓂 𝓉𝒽ℯ 2016 𝓈𝓊𝓂𝓂ℯ𝓇 𝓈ℯ𝓇𝓋𝒾𝒸ℯ𝓈 𝒷ℴ𝒶𝓇𝒹 𝓂ℯℯ𝓉𝒾𝓃ℊ

𝐅̳𝐚̳𝐢̳𝐭̳𝐡̳ ̳𝐢̳𝐧̳ ̳𝐭̳𝐡̳𝐞̳ ̳𝐒̳𝐑̳𝐊̳/̳𝐒̳𝐅̳𝐂̳/̳𝐋̳𝐋̳𝐂̳ ̳𝐜̳𝐨̳𝐧̳𝐠̳𝐫̳𝐞̳𝐠̳𝐚̳𝐭̳𝐢̳𝐨̳𝐧̳ ̳𝐢̳𝐬̳ ̳𝐣̳𝐮̳𝐬̳𝐭̳ ̳𝐚̳𝐬̳ ̳𝐢̳𝐦̳𝐩̳𝐨̳𝐫̳𝐭̳𝐚̳𝐧̳𝐭̳ ̳𝐚̳𝐬̳ ̳𝐉̳𝐞̳𝐬̳𝐮̳𝐬̳ ̳𝐟̳𝐨̳𝐫̳ ̳𝐨̳𝐮̳𝐫̳ ̳𝐬̳𝐚̳𝐥̳𝐯̳𝐚̳𝐭̳𝐢̳𝐨̳𝐧̳.̳. This is the reason most of our sermons always promote the need to maintain faith in the SRK/SFC/LLC Congregation. We are the Golden Candlestick.

Note: A lot of turmoil in the Seattle LLC. Many in the Seattle Congregation believe like Wolf Lake and Minneapolis. The turmoil was covered in the Flathead Valley 10/13/2024 sermon.

How have these congregations been affected by the recent split? Does anyone openly talk about disagreeing with what was done by the LLC? Are the minister zealous like in other areas?

I have not heard much about the heroine of the Laestadian movement. The woman who opened Lars Laestadius eyes to the true Gospel. I understand Milla and her mother were part of the Protestant Moravian Readers Revival Movement. Such originated in the Bohemian Church in modern day Czech, and was a Eastern Orthodox Church plant.

The Moravians were the first non-denominational approach to the Christian faith since the original church. The Moravian Readers Revival and the Bohemian Reformation started about 60 years prior to Luther's Reformation. Jan Huss, a Catholic Priest, was the leader, and was burned at the stake.

The Moravian's were the first Protestant Christians, and were famous for establishing hundreds of missions, and starting revivals in existing churches throughout the world. The Moravians were a big part of the Great Awakening in the 1700's.

The Moravians are still around, have a website, and publish what they believe. Much different than the exclusive theology taught today by some of the Laestadian based churches. The Moravians recognize the Apostles Creed, Athanasian Creed and Nicene Creed, as important statements of the Christian faith. Nothing Lutheran about them. Gotquestions.org

Uhh yeah! Duh! The things that are considered sin in laestadianism (I grew up in the LLC) are frankly laughable. Smoking weed or drinking alcohol is a sin, and your body is a temple but somehow a pack of cigarettes a day is fine? Give me a break. Trick or treating, movies, music with a beat, makeup, hair dye, earrings, sports, etc etc are all against the rules and yet laestadian congregations foster a toxic environment of racism, misogyny, gossip, and bullying. Hell doesn’t sound so bad compared to an eternity of all that.

I thought it would be fun to compile a list of film and books that have Laestadian characters and themes. Please indicate if the source is not available in English.

Film and Television:

• Deadwind, TV series, Finland, 2018-2021, Available on Netflix
• All the Sins, TV series, Finland, Finland, 3 seaons 2019-2023, PBS Walter'e Presents
• Forbidden Fruit, film, 2009, Finland, not sure how to see in in the USA anymore
• The Kautokeino Rebellion, film, Norway, 2008
• The Earth is a Sinful Song, film, 1973, Finland. Now being remade for a future release by the same director as All the Sins! Based on a previous book never published in English.
• Ellina, As If I Wasn't There, film, Sweden, 2002. It used to be free on Youtube, not sure how to see it now
• Arctic Circle, TV series, Finland, 2018-2023
• Bordertown, TV series, Seasons 3, episodes 7&8, Finland
• To Cook a Bear, upcomign TV series, Sweden, based on the same book written by Mikael Niemi, has recently filmed in Finland by DisneyPlus, featuring a Laestadius played by one of the Skarsgard actor brothers!
• Popular Music from Vittula, film, Sweden, 2004, based on novel by the same name by Mikael Niemi.
• Bad Boys, film, Finland, 2003.

Novels:

• We Sinners, USA, Hanna Pylvainen, 2012, set in Michigan
• The End of Drum Time, 2023, Hanna Pylvainen. Set in Sweden.
• The Salt Bin, 1998, Harald Jenssen, Norway and set in Norway
• To Cook a Bear, 2021, Mikael Niemi, set in Sweden
• Popular Music from Vittula, Mikael Niemi, set in Sweden...at the time it was the best selling book in Sweden in the last 100 years!

Please add to this list if you know more!

I dont recall this particular wording being used in the LLC but it seems this was taught in theory. Like being born into the church automatically means you are a descendant of the first christians. Is this taught in all the groups? Makes me think of in Titus when it talks about to avoid foolish genealogies.

From The Voice of One Crying in the Wilderness by Laestadius, starting page 21, speaking of himself in third person:

Not one could match the ideal, which long had been in his imaginings. His future wife must not be from a noble family, for such were too pretentious; she must not be rich, for this wealth could make the husband a slave to his wife; she must not be well educated, since her learning could draw her away from household tasks; she could not be fine and upper -class, since such a one might demand excessive serving; and she could not be a whiner, for such are unbearable.

...

Namely, she was to be poor, feeling that she was fortunate to be united with a man who expected to be able to provide daily bread in the future; she was to be uneducated, so that she could be educated as her husband wished; she was to be a Christian - have such strange requirements ever been heard of? She was to have yielded to a gentle vision.

What was the last straw for you leaving the LLC?

I always knew even as a kid that the crazy rules never made sense. But it wasn’t until I heard about ministers being bullied in meetings while having their speaking rights taken away and not being allowed to record the conversations that I said NOPE. I am out completely. That was such a red flag to me. So sinister. If you have nothing to hide, you would allow the conversation to be recorded.

Often I give my own assessment on topics and rather than the topic being discussed it ends up being about me. In an attempt to foster some "on topic" discussion:

What is the historical timeline of the "one true Christian doctrine"? If you wish to answer, please be as specific as possible.

What is the afterlife and who is going where?

What are some legalistic requirements to the "one true Christian doctrine"?

I have way more questions, but this is probably a good start without being too much.

This thread isn't only for current Laestadians, I wouldn't mind hearing of your new theological (or otherwise) positions.

I promise to engage in thoughtful, respectful dialogue, please reciprocate.

No ad hominems, please! (Me too).

"For God so loved the leastadians, he gave his only begotten congregation, that whosoever believes it is the only saving church shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16

" We are the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the father but thru us." John 14:6

"Therefore since we have been justified thru the blessing , we have peace with God thru the LLC" Romans 5:1

Such clear scripture yet somehow they can misinterpret and apply to only them.

There are many more, feel free to add.

Do any of you have stories of having your faith questioned, motives, obedience, etc?

I’ve heard stories from a LOT of friends, family, acquaintances from the LLC that they have been accused of all kids of nonsense like not being ‘obedient’ to the mother congregation, ‘causing men to stumble’ because of their dress, not participating enough in church functions (meaning faith is not the most important thing in your life), even as nuts as being belittled for bringing store bought cookies for Bible class snack instead of home baked, and criticism for many other things.

I feel like that kind of behavior is so abusive and causes individuals to not trust their own intuition or have any autonomy in their faith.

There is always a legalism problem, when the church corporate relationship is primary over the Biblical direct personal born again relationship with Christ Jesus through the Holy Spirit.

There is a false sense of security when the emphasis of theology is primarily "the right church" in place of personal faith and love for Christ Jesus. No church on earth will be perfect. Obviously there are better and worse.

The church consists of all kinds of people with different motives, and only God knows the heart. Not all church people are inspired and led by the Holy Spirit, no matter what they claim. We do hope they are inspired however, no matter to our personal salvation. We are individual children of God, and only answer directly to God for ourselves.

Jesus through the Holy Spirit, will lead us where He wishes, as He did for Saul on the Damascus Road. We all have a different journey. Ask Christ Jesus in prayer and receive. Trust in Christ Jesus alone and He will direct your path through the Holy Spirit. People are fallible, no matter who they claim to be. Remember the Apostle Peter's antics. A very imperfect disciple.

Christ Jesus seeks us, we do not seek Him. Christ Jesus draws us through the Holy Spirit, and saves us by grace through faith alone. We can only receive or reject the grace gift. We cannot even accept the grace gift without the work of the Holy Spirit changing our heart.

The Holy Spirit indwells every Believers heart. The worldwide Christian Church consist of people meeting in homes and cathedrals, who are indwelled with the Holy Spirit and love Christ Jesus, which is synonymous. Tear down those man made walls that separate those who love Christ Jesus. Stop the petty bickering over non essential theology, and keep all eyes on Christ Jesus. Enjoy you brothers and sisters in Christ, and attend the church where the Holy Spirit leads you.

There will be no denominations in heaven, only those who love Christ Jesus. None are perfect however, God's grace is sufficient for all His children. gotquestions.org

I am curious to hear your stories. I am flagged as ex-OALC but have not really “come out” fully to my family. If you’re not comfortable commenting, please send me a chat request!

I am curious as to the way a service is conducted in the other branches. In the IALC, there is typically a person from the congregation who reads the text for the scheduled minister. All of the ministers travel to the other congregations so it may be a local minister or one from another congregation. The minister selects a text and then the reader reads it and the minister re-reads it and speaks on “whatever is revealed” which is often very little and will consist of something about how “fortunate we are to have THIS faith”, or something about how bad the world is. Often the more popular ministers will have some level of emotion during the sermon, but very little will be said regarding real life issues or even any real inference about what is read. The speakers are not allowed to prepare in any way and most of the time will just flip the Bible open and read where it falls…unless they don’t understand it, then it is apparently acceptable to flip a few more times to something easier. They are also allowed from time to time to choose a text that they had a “feeling” about before coming to church as long as they don’t do it too often. If they do it too often they may be accused of using their brain too much and not the spirit. There is a common phrase in the IALC from a speaker from the 1950’s who would say that “the brain is in cahoots with the devil”. They also generally need to say during the sermon something that presents themselves as humble and express how incompetent they are to do the job and make some sort of statement like “if anything is revealed give thanks to God”.

Curious how other branches pick ministers. Are they all lay ministers? Or do they get training in some way? Can they preselect where they speak from or prepare a sermon?

At IALC, a a minister is selected when a “feeling” is had from someone or multiple someone’s within the congregation and it is brought to the board. The trustees then ask that person to speak and at some point that person will either be voted in to be a permanent speaker and then is able to travel to other congregations and do weddings and funerals etc.

The controlling factor for choosing appears to have nothing to do with scripture or any set of rules, but is based solely on subjective “feelings” of the board for that specific congregation.

So if you attend the LLC as a contributing member and your put up for a speaker/minister...can you refuse to be put up or do you have to deny your faith?

I left Laestadianism after several years of being kept in by social and family pressure alone. It’s been a struggle to find new connections outside the church and feels impossible to imagine finding that sense of community (which was dependable and easy, if somewhat shallow) anywhere else, especially as I am not interested in belonging to another church anytime soon. For those who have left and haven’t joined another faith group or church, what has been your experience of seeking and finding new communities?