Just wanted to say that I am very thankful for everyone in this community and it's diversity. I know that this time of year can be hard and stressful for many, and joyful for many. No matter what.. I pray that you know you are loved by the one who made you and that your life has deep and meaningful purpose. And that today you will/are experiencing hope and peace.

God Bless!

I’ve been reflecting on my journey since leaving the LLC and feel compelled to share this message with you. I know some of you may think I’m bitter, or perhaps there’s bitterness toward me, but I assure you this isn’t about anger or resentment. My heart is not bitter; rather, I care deeply about the truth of the gospel and the peace and freedom that come only through Jesus Christ. My prayer is that these words may encourage and edify those who are struggling as I once was.

Before I left, I was filled with fear and confusion. I remember one day after a particularly difficult discussion at church, I cried out to God in desperation. I was terrified about which “side” to choose in the turmoil. I thought one side was condemned to hell and the other would inherit the kingdom of God. I tried so hard to figure out which side was acting more Christian or seemed more righteous. But the more I focused on human behavior—including my own—the more confused and hopeless I became. Both sides often fell into the flesh, and so did I. The Bible speaks clearly of this struggle in Galatians 5:17: “For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”

That day, I begged God for answers, pleading for Him to show me the truth and alleviate my fears. In His mercy, He answered my prayer—not in an instant, but over time, through His Word. He opened my eyes to the truth that salvation is not about picking the “right side” or belonging to the “right” church. It’s not about how well I behave or how perfectly I confess my sins. Salvation is entirely the work of Christ, who accomplished everything for me on the cross.

The gospel became clear to me through passages like Ephesians 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Salvation is not dependent on my efforts, my works, or my church membership. It rests solely on the finished work of Jesus Christ. When He said, “It is finished” (John 19:30), He meant it. His sacrifice paid the full penalty for my sins and yours. There is nothing more to add—He has done it all.

Leaving the LLC wasn’t a decision I made lightly. In fact, it wasn’t something I “decided” at all. Why would I choose to leave everything I had from a temporal standpoint? My closest friends and my entire family still attend the LLC. I’ve lost the community I grew up in, and I don’t have close friends anymore. I deeply mourn the temporal life I once had. But even though I’ve lost so much, I can honestly say my life is far from misery. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. God has given me peace and joy that surpass all understanding. Philippians 3:8 expresses this beautifully: “Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ.”

For so long, I thought my standing with God depended on my ability to do everything right—confess all my sins, follow all the rules, and remain within the community. But God showed me through His Word that my hope is not in myself or my efforts. My hope is in Christ alone. Romans 8:1 says, “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” If we trust in Him, we are free from condemnation because He has borne our punishment.

I know there is a strong emphasis in the LLC on confession and absolution. Confession is a gift from God (1 John 1:9), but Scripture teaches that forgiveness ultimately comes from God through Christ alone. First Timothy 2:5 reminds us, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Forgiveness is not dependent on how perfectly we confess—it is dependent on the perfect sacrifice of Jesus. His blood covers all our sins.

I also want to address the belief that salvation is tied to being part of the LLC. The idea that one specific church holds the keys to salvation is not found in Scripture. John 3:16 declares, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” Salvation is for whosoever believes in Christ—not just those in a specific group or denomination. Acts 4:12 further confirms, “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” It is Christ who saves, not any church or human institution.

I understand that some of you may feel I’ve abandoned the community, and perhaps there is bitterness toward me because of it. I want to assure you that I hold no bitterness or anger in my heart. My hope is in Christ, and my desire is to point others to Him. Bitterness only distracts us from the gospel, whether it’s bitterness we feel toward others or bitterness we think others feel toward us. Hebrews 12:15 warns, “Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled.”

What I’ve come to know is this: Jesus is enough. His grace is sufficient for every sin, every failure, and every doubt (2 Corinthians 12:9): “And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.” You don’t need to carry the weight of trying to earn God’s favor or figure out who is “right.” Christ has already won salvation for you. Rest in Him. Trust in His promises. Look to the cross, where the full payment for your sins was made, and know that it truly is finished.

If anything I’ve shared resonates with you, I encourage you to open the Bible and search these things out for yourself. Acts 17:11 speaks of the Bereans, who were commended for searching the Scriptures daily to see if what they were taught was true: “These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” God’s Word is alive and powerful (Hebrews 4:12): “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” He promises that those who seek Him will find Him (Jeremiah 29:13): “And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.” My prayer is that the gospel of Jesus Christ will bring you the same peace and freedom it has brought me.

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.

I have started to pray every morning that I would be a man instead of a boy today. Often I avoid responsibilities by doing mind numbing activities and not stepping up to the responsibilities of being a man. If I live 20, 30, or even 40 more years I want to live 20 years instead od living the same year over and over 20 times. Example: need to focus on social interactiona with wife and children instead of looking at cell phone or being distraxted by the internet. Need to step up to the plate, face the challenges of life, and realize my full potential

Can someone explain the LLC teaching on the difference between the Spoken Word and the written Word. And do they openly say that they have revelations that aren't clear in the written Word?

The question was asked in the previous post what is the 3 sins coalition. Is this referring to the three-fold enemy; satan, flesh, and the world? Good VS Evil or the SRK/SFC/LLC mother congregation vs anything outside of the unified flock?

I always ask the queation are the minds of the SRK/SFC/LLC Converts anymore unified than those outside of the flock? Is outward perception of unity more important than unity of the minds. Do the ministers really have to believe what they are saying or do they just have to repeat the same script over and over. with percieved confidence while admitting doubts, to make it to heaven?

Hello and Gods Peace -I'd like to converse in person, but also preface any discussion with the following email.  I sent an email with similar sentiments with some others, but I believe your issues are more serious. I think you are trending toward a very dangerous place.  A place that is detrimental not only to your own walk of faith, but to the congregation as a whole.   

There are very real similarities between how you seem to be thinking, and how you are speaking and acting which look very much like the spirit which eventually ended in the binding of XXX, the 3 Sins Coalition, and the general dryness, over-watchfulness and judgementalism that has occurred in the past.  I have been told this is not uncommon after times of trouble.  However, it is not right or according to God's Word.  Just because it happened in the past is not a good excuse for it to happen again, nor should it be permitted to continue.I believe you should think about the idea that there is not only danger to the left, but also very grave danger to the right.  And that the sins and wrongdoings of self-righteousness and an over-watchful dry spirit are actually more dangerous and more insidious, as they are cloaked in a guise of righteousness and spirituality. 

We are a level headed flock, it is written in Scripture that we are.  You seem to have taken a view of your own strength, discernment and understanding that puts it above that of others.  This is a very dangerous place to be. I have spoken with many others in SLLC who also see things with this way in regard to you and some other few but loud voices.  I have also spoken with believers in other congregations and the questions from those outside our congregation has been about dryness, bright-eyed individuals and self-righteousness, the taking of power to one's self, justification through works rather than faith in Christ alone, ostracizing and upbraiding people who may not agree with fine points of doctrine which in the end save no one, and maybe worst of all, the theft of Christian freedom from those congregants not bold enough to speak up.

I would hope your intentions are good, but the road to perdition is paved with those.  I think you have been blinded to your actions and faults by the enemy of souls, and that while you believe yourself to be doing good, you are in fact leading people astray and damaging Gods kingdom here on earth.  I would encourage you to read and reflect.  Maybe read the book of Romans, Luther's lecture on Galatians, and his writings on Christian freedom.  In the lecture on Galatians, if you read it with honest self-reflection, you may find some help.

I'd be happy to discuss this at any time.

https://www.openbible.info/topics/salvation

https://www.openbible.info/topics/holy_spirit

https://www.openbible.info/topics/born_again

Congregation discussion

November 22, 2024

• 7:00 PM - 9:45 PM

A continuation of previous discussion

Congregation Discussion

November 15, 2024

• 7:00 PM - 9:30 PM

Continuation of 10/16 Discussion: How Do I Believe?

Congregation Discussion

October 16, 2024

• 7:00 PM - 8:00 PM

Topic: How do I Believe?

Could I join the FALC without 'repenting' or 'converting' to them and be considered a true christian? Could I attend the local non denominational church on Sundays and do Bible class at FALC without any problems? Could I say I heard the gospel from a Baptist and that was when I was born again and FALC people would consider me a true Christian? Or do I have to hear it from FALC? I am hearing conflicting opinions from people in the FALC versus those that left.

My sense is, God gave certain people special powers at special times for His purpose throughout the Bible. Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit on the Apostles with special powers prior to Pentecost, for a special reason. To validate them as true follows of Jesus, with the power of the Holy Spirit, in order to use some of the same powers Jesus used, to help them in spreading the Gospel message. This was before the church was organized and the written New Testament was available.

All Believer's including the Apostles, were indwelled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. I don't see any evidence of these special powers in action, after this time in the early church. I am not saying God does not answer prayer or does not heal, I just don't think the special powers in John 20:23 are applicable or evident today.

I don't relate forgiveness from God, to confessing sin one to another, Confessing sin one to another is done for reasons other than forgiveness from God.

And why would Jesus tell us to ask for forgiveness of sin directly in prayer to the Heavenly Father, in the Lords Prayer, if we needed to go to a person to receive forgiveness. I can't be the first to ask this question.

I don't much care if someone has been doing something for a long time, to where it becomes tradition. Such does not make anything Inspired.

See, IS APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION BIBLICAL at gotquestions.org. I appreciate your respectful comments.

I've been learning about the Independent Apostolic Lutheran Church, and I have some questions regarding their practices. Specifically, I’m curious why they don't emphasize material representations of God, such as crosses, images of Jesus, or any other physical symbols to signify God.

From what I understand, this branch of Christianity seems to focus on a more spiritual and direct connection with God, rather than using physical items as reminders or symbols.

Can anyone explain the reasoning behind this? Why don’t they pray with physical symbols, and why does the church avoid having images of the Lord or Jesus in material forms? Is it more about avoiding idolatry, or is there another theological reason behind this practice?

I’d appreciate any insight from those more familiar with the faith or its teachings. Thanks!

The RC sacrament of penance includes absolution of sin by the priest. The authority of the RC priest is rejected by most Protestants.

Protestant interpretation of John 20:23, see gotquestions.org

Reciting God's promises in the Bible, to a confessing person, is comforting and appropriate however, only God can forgive sin. Only God knows the heart and motives. Therefore, confession and forgiveness is ultimately between the confessor and Jesus, per 1 John 1:9.

If we are asking someone to forgive us for something, we have done to them, they can forgive us from their perspective however, all sin is against God.

Everyone who believes (has faith) in Christ Jesus, receives the forgiveness of sin, per Acts 10:43-44. God's amazing love and grace, and our faith (love) in Christ Jesus, is the basis of our relationship with God, and salvation, per Eph 2:8-9.

Love Christ Jesus, first and foremost, pray to Jesus, and the Holy Spirit will guide you, and give you wisdom and peace, per Matt 7:7. Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and the Lord will direct your path, per Proverbs 3:5-6.

Do Laestadians only believe in the importance of forgiveness and disregard the concept of atonement? Asking as a former Laestadian (many years ago). I don't remember any discussions about atonement in church at all. Or is my memory failing me?

CURRENT MEMBERS LAESTADIAN LUTHERAN CHURCH FACEBOOK PAGE

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100093704419929

In the 11/07/2024 evening devotion the minister from Alaska claims he has difficulty explaining the truth to those outside the LLC. Any tips to help this minister next time somebody asks him what is different about the LLC?

Seems like when they are preaching to the congregation they speak with authority, but when they step out of the sheep pen they become a little sheepish. Any thoughts to help this struggling minister?

With moral disagreements over television and school sports available as triggers, both strong willed leaders of the 1973 Schism had the opportunity they needed to be rid of each other. But the two sides are preaching nearly identical Laestadian theology three decades later while condemning each other as heretics. The big diference between these two groups is only one has access to the holy spirit and the keys to heaven. Peter Nevala and his followers (the LLC) have the Keys to Heaven!! The Torolites and their leader have the Keys to Heaven!!! Current Leaders of both groups are happy in their isolated rooms where they have the Keys to your eternal future and have the power to destroy a large part of your social life/business life if you start to rely on the holy spirit instead of them. Was either side the loser?

Posted by Barnyard-Bill on Reddit
Some Believers have circled the wagons and cut themselves off from the world as much as possible. Hiding behind the church walls and waiting for Jesus to come and take them to Heaven. Ignoring Jesus Great Commission and a Believers real purpose in life in Matt 28:19-20. Go into the world and share Jesus in word and deed, and for some to raise children to do the same. Us against them mentality in place of loving the unbelieving neighbor and seeking relationship. Fearful of fellowship with other Believers because of nonessential differences and fearful of the world. A totalitarian mentality in leadership. A self/group centered faith rather than a Jesus centered faith. What are we to do?

Outside of God's SRK/SFC/LLC Genealogical Unified Congregation there is no "living gospel". The SRK/SFC/LLC Congregation's 𝐠𝐫𝐚𝐜𝐞 gospel in a nutshell.

Outside of God's FALC Genealogical Unified Congregation there is no "living gospel". The FALC Congregation's 𝐠𝐫𝐚𝐜𝐞 gospel in a nutshell.

Giving sermons is easy in the SRK/SFC/LLC Congregation as you just repeat the same thing over and over. It is a organization that requires no spiritual growth. Sin and confess weekly. As long as you keep your guilt, fear, anxiety, and spiritual confusion to yourself and put on an outward appearance that is maintained to conceal a less pleasant or creditable reality, like our leaders, you will be acceptable to pass through heavens gate.

I recently started telling my friends and family that I won't be going to church anymore and that I will stop greeting people. It wasn't a surprise to anyone, but actually getting it out there felt amazing. I feel like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders and I can finally breathe. No regrets, except maybe that I didn't leave sooner.

They were mostly accepting, though not necessarily supportive, and they haven't been cold or unkind, which I am relieved about. That said, I can clearly see how my relationships, especially my relationships with family, have changed since I told them and I'm trying to understand their perspectives. On one hand, in my immediate family our values encourage acceptance and love of each other, while on the other hand, the church values suggest something else. In the IALC, there's a lot of talk in the sermons about "staying on this narrow path" and having the "strength to hold on just one more day" (in this terrible, awful, no-good, evil world). This implies, subtly and not, that losing one's faith is really a personal failing because that person didn't have the strength of character and/or spirit to believe in God's word and stay in this faith. In the eyes of my friends and family who go to church, I have failed. I am a failure who wasn't strong enough. Even if they don't consciously think this, they have been taught to subconsciously feel that way.

Former IALC members, have you noticed this?

Edited to reword some things.

Being from the IALC, I have been listening to some of the sermons linked from former members of the LLC. Even though I find them fairly difficult to listen to, I have stuck with a few. One thing I notice is the almost obsessive use of the word “heresy”? This is not a word that I have ever heard used in IALC.

It is interesting that around 100 years ago IALC split from LLC, but this doctrine didn’t stick.

Is this a word used in the OALC, FALC and other groups? Or is this specific to LLC. Are there other words or phrases that your group used for manipulation?

Given the oppression of the Sami people by the Finnish government, and the history of forced conversion to Christianity, Laestadianism seems like a fitting retort. Fine! We'll become Christians, but WE are the true Christians. The rest of you are going to hell. Take that!

Ex-FALC here. Do you guys think there will be more people who leave because they find out through the internet what the real world is actually like? I feel like if I didn’t have a phone or the internet while growing up I would be still in it.

I also don’t think it will ever die out because the families are just too large. Maybe OALC will surpass the FALC, if it hasn’t already?

I used to live in buffalo mn and now live in Montana.

I'm curious, because someone used the phrase on another post "if you sing those songs in X congregation, they would excommunicate you".

From what I've seen of OALC, they may ask preachers or others in official roles to step down, but otherwise it's more of an unofficial social shunning, people are still allowed to talk to you but are careful about any topics related to faith, etc.

Is that similar in the other Laestadian branches, or is there a more formal excommunication process?

When people in this forum mention excommunication, is it a casual phrase meant to cover social shunning, or a formal process?

Be well! 💕

I have heard there has been alot more mixing between these 2 congregations. I know there is resistance in Wolf Lake but what about in Spruce Grove? Is the SG congregation being shook up by these changes?

The Finnish Lutheran Church leans progressive left, with the government. All Finnish Lutheran ministers are part of, and subordinate to the State Lutheran Church. US Finns tend to be independent, traditional, conservative Americans. These different paradigms can cause divisions in the church.

Christ Jesus loves all His creation, no matter whether they agree or not. Believers are called to love their enemies, no less. We can disagree, and still love our neighbor in a Christian world view. Our heart will be where our treasure is, in any event, per Matt 6:19.

Love is a decision, a commitment and a resulting attitude and behavior. The Bible provides guidelines for a life pleasing to God. If we love Christ Jesus, we will live by His Word, per John 14:23. We can accept it, or make up our own way, and suffer the consequences. Some will interpret the Bible to fit their narrative. The world can be cruel, and will teach. We tend to be self serving beings, in any event.

Victor Davis Hanson wrote a interesting article on 10/26/24, "10 Alarming Signs We are in the Middle of a Cultural Revolution".

Love this take on forgiveness. Definitely something I wish congregation members learned instead of the “forgiven is forgotten” teaching that keeps many people in unhealthy situations.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DBI9Br_RpIp/?igsh=MTUxM3EwczBvMGxkYw==

I grew up in the Laestadian Lutheran church and am still physically in mentally out. In the past year I have started doubting the teachings and doctrine of the church, and don’t agree with a lot of it. I haven’t talked to anyone about my beliefs and I don’t think anyone would expect me to leave.

I live with roommates that are in the church, so I’m scared to eventually have that conversation with them and then go on with normal life after. I also feel a lot of guilt thinking about telling my close friends and family that are in the church, because I know how much it will hurt them and I don’t want to cause that. I want to keep my friendships and relationships with them, but I’m afraid that I will lose all of that.

My question is, what can I do to make the transition a little easier once people start noticing that I’m starting to leave?

For anyone who has attended Opisto in the past at any of the three schools (Ranua, Reisjarvi, Jamsa) :

• How was your experience overall?
• What were some the parts you enjoyed?
• What did you not like about the experience?
• How was your experience making friends with both Am/Cans and Finns?
• How were the Finnish teens? How did they act? Was it like you had expected?
• How were the Americans/Canadians that you spent time with? Were they decent people? Did they assimilate well to Finnish culture?
• Were your personal beliefs about the church altered after going?
• How is Finnish Laestadian culture different than American Laestadian?
• What was your experience with the Finnish language? Was it easy to grasp?
• What were some of your favorite European/ maybe Asian countries you visited while on breaks/weekends?

Anything else you would like to add would be welcome as well! Thanks everyone in advance! I’ll be going to Reisjarvi Opisto in Finland next year and any comments will be greatly appreciated.