Hello I was wondering if anyone has completed a PhD in Celtic Mythology please? Diolch

So I've recently gotten intrigued by the idea that Dionysius is not only one of the oldest gods of Ancient Greece(being noted from bronze age inscriptions) but also his more ancient worship apparently was quite....disturbing, with wine, madness and tearing animals(and possibly people) into pieces to devour, possibly as part of a fertility ritual(?). Some of his epithets are apparently quite disturbing.

What's a good treatment of the cult of Dionysus and the god, in particular his pre-classical/Mycenean form?

Tl;dr

In prehistoric times, at least in proto-Indo-European cultures and possibly in the broader neolithic world, there was the belief in a third celestial body made of darkness, which caused the phases of the moon and eclipses by attacking the bodies of light.

This celestial body was a god like their pantheon associated with the moon, sun, and planets.

Following the discovery that the phases of the moon are caused by the Earth’s shadow, and solar eclipses by the moon, this celestial body vanished from their skies and from their myths.

By divining this character’s traits through comparative mythology, we can reveal details of the PIE peoples’ cosmology, astrology, superstitions, and calendar year.

Backstory

For over a year now, I have been chasing the story beats of a lost epic, which I believe once held a status in Indo-European culture on par with the narratives of the Trojan War in ancient Greece or the Mahabharata in ancient India. I also believe that this story formed the basis of the proto-Indo-European calendar, and thus had a role in shaping their daily lives. This story unites many of the PIE myths that scholars have already described.

The last time I posted on this topic, I got several great suggestions for directions to take my research, and had many stimulating conversations. I especially want to thank u/NordicBerserker who shared his research into the history of the divine twins. This research helped me realize that characters I had initially considered merely bodyguards for the sun were actually of paramount importance to the people telling this story.

You can read earlier posts on this topic here and here. If you read those earlier posts closely, you will find that I contradict myself occasionally. This is because this is still an evolving theory, so some of the pieces do not quite fit together yet.

If you are a scholar of folklore, or know somebody who is and might be interested in this topic, by all means encourage them to reach out to me and tell me what needs to be done to turn this into an actual academic theory. If you are a producer for Netflix, definitely give me a call. I think watching me chase this topic all around the world would be far more interesting than the search for psychic lizard Atlantis or whatever you are producing now. We could call it “The Quest for Planet X” and examine all of the notions about shadow Earths or hidden planets, from the recent Nabiru craze to the ancient belief in Antichthon. Then I could talk to actual experts in ancient religion and see if this theory has any legs, and if it might help explain some of the more cryptic artifacts and trends that archaeologists have discovered from these people.

Please pour yourself a cup of tea, snuggle up under a blanket, turn your tablet to dark mode. Take yourself back to a world where clay tablets and bone styluses were the cutting edge technology, when your survival depended entirely on whatever gifts nature chose to bestow upon you, and take in a 5,000 year-old-story to unwind after a stressful day of hunting and gathering.

A Living Story

In our enlightened world, myths are often treated as something ancient and fixed. This is not actually how most cultures think of their gods and legends.

Instead of religious texts like the Bible, or even an ancient story like the Iliad, imagine an unfolding storyline that you feel invested in right now. It could be a TV series, a novel series, a series of movies, or your favorite “expanded universe.” As a comic book fan, I think of super heroes like Superman and Batman.

The key traits of these stories are that they are ongoing, iterative, collaborative, cyclical narratives.

1. Ongoing – the stories are “ongoing” because there is always a thread of the storyline extending into the future. The one thing these narratives can never do is stop. There is always a new episode next week or a new issue coming out next month. The stories can alter what has come before through flashbacks, retcons, or reboots, and those changes may have impacts on the “current” timeline, but there is always a sense that these aspects of the story happened “in the past,” while some other thread of the story is happening “right now.” An example of this would be the way that Star Wars TV series are understood by fans to have “already happened,” while the new trilogy had the sense of current events – even though all of the story supposedly takes place a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. In the same way, stories can occur “in the future,” producing narratives such as Batman Beyond.
2. Iterative – In order to keep their frame “current,” these stories must continually reinvent themselves. This is a phenomenon familiar to fans of super heroes. This is the effect that keeps Bruce Wayne perpetually about thirty years old. This iterative frame can affect each character in the story differently. Aunt May and Alfred continued to get older until they eventually died in the comics, while they got younger and younger in the movies. Robin grew from a thirteen year old boy into an adult, yet Batman is still in his prime. The original Flash is an octogenarian, but Superman is still in his thirties.
3. Collaborative – In addition to collaboration between artists, the stories are collaboratively built upon by communities who share multiple, often conflicting interpretations of the characters. Even when characters are owned by corporations, fan response to the characters can end up steering their storylines in real-time. Marvel’s Loki would not have gotten twelve years of movies and TV shows if Tom Hiddleston had not been such a hit with fans.
4. Cyclical – The stories are typified by the repetition of cycles. Often, there will be cycles within cycles, as each episode contains a familiar cycle and familiar beats, and each season will have its own cycles. Real-world factors also impose cycles. Until recently, a television show would always have an explosive episode for sweeps week. Season openers and season finales must meet certain audience expectations, or else the show might not get renewed for a new season.

Because life is also ongoing, iterative, collaborative, and cyclical, stories of this type have a unique power within cultures. New events in the storyline become events in real life. The ritual of watching the next episode shapes our lives as much as the rituals of paying rent, celebrating birthdays, or the natural seasons.

And because of their ongoing relevance to our lives, these stories do not remain passive entertainment. They get enacted through games, rides, theme parks, performances, cosplaying, and crafts. The ancients would have used stone-age versions of all of these methods to bring their own stories to life, just as we do.

While the story may talk about gods and natural forces, this was not religion. This was pop culture.

Purpose of the story

1. Calendar – calendar is taught as a narrative, so a person can figure out where they are in the year by looking at the stars. Before the precise movements of the Earth were calculated, counting days would make an unreliable calendar even in camp.When away from the core group, a person could lose count of the days even over a very short period.
2. Reinforce good conduct/provide male and female role models like any good pop epic. Through the villains, it also contrasts healthy and unhealthy ways of expressing dangerous emotions or dealing with conflict.
3. Justify seasonal behaviors – racing against the grain witch to get the harvest collected is a concept that even a child can understand, and makes the extra push to store up food for the winter into a little game.
4. Provide entertainment – storytellers would provide a new “episode” some nights, which would vary based on weather and astronomical events. Other nights they might “rerun” favorites of the tribe.
5. Outline the borders of tribal identity – people who also lived by this calendar and knew these stories are “your people,” even if their versions have evolved since the last time you compared notes. People who live by a different calendar are “outsiders.” Since the people were nomadic and appear to be very widespread and heterogeneous in many ways, this kind of cultural border marker would be important to maintain good (or at least tolerable) relationships with distant cousins, even when the “foreigners” live right next door to you and your cousin lives far away.

Characters

Sky Father

The God King who is mostly wise but tempestuous and easily manipulated while under the influence of one of his appetites (food, women, drink) reflects the inherent unpredictability of the natural world. The original PIE character may have had a weakness for all three.

Rather than being somewhere high up, the Sky Father’s body was the very air that composes our atmosphere. Over time, the Father’s kingdom migrated further and further away, but at this time the moon and stars were not as distant as they would later come to be.

Earth Mother

The Earth Mother was a goddess of both the harvest and death. She both provided the bounty for survival, and also welcomed her children back into her womb – sometimes a bit too eagerly and greedily.

The Earth Mother and the Sky Father are entangled, or embracing, in such a way that they form a perfect sphere. Caves form points of penetration, where the Sky Father can impregnate the Mother, and volcanoes are wombs preparing to give new birth. Mountains are empty wombs, where the monsters whose bones they find sometimes were born. Humans live in the space between the embrace of Sky Father and Earth Mother. This relationship echoes Aristophanes’ “ancient myth.” The masculine/feminine dichotomy of nature is preserved in PIE language.

Humans consume matter – food – which is composed of the Earth, and breathe air that is composed of the Sky. In this way, all things are composed of Mother and Father. Fresh water was safe to drink only because it had been purified, either by passing through the Mother (springs, rivers) or through the Father (rain). This pure water was one of the ongoing boons that Mother and Father provided for humanity.

These ingredients – Earth, air, fire, and fresh water – also formed the raw materials of the most advanced technology available to these people, kiln-fired clay. Their reverence for this technology would be similar to the spiritual abilities attributed to electricity in the late 19th century, and atomic power in the twentieth. Its power would be demonstrated through the transformation of river mud into a sealed jar, as well as through the creation of alcohol, cheese, and pickled and dried foods, all of which would have become much more plentiful and safe as technology improved.

Dawn

The eldest daughter of the Sky and Earth is the red or pink sun that looks down at dawn. She may have been a warrior, but she was certainly less war-like than her siblings. She often serves as the object for the other heroes to protect. Her kindness and innocence are crucial to the return of Fire, so she is still regarded as a heroine in her own right, if less flashy than the warrior heroes. Her power lies in insight and empathy, and it is these traits her brother seeks to protect and their enemies seek to exploit.

Derived characters: Eos, Ushas, Persephone

Sol

The male form of the sun is a virtuous hero embodying male responsibility and duty. He can be humorless at times, but generally means well. This is the face of the yellow or white sun that looks down after midday. In modern parlance he might be called a knight in shining armor. If he has any faults, they are that he takes his duties a bit too seriously. 

Together, the sun twins represent an ideal of dutiful children who remain close to the camp, such as craftsmen and teachers.

Sol and Dawn were associated with the most exalted food source of the culture, usually meat. Association between the sun and boars during this period may explain why pork consumption increased in IE cultures even though domestication of pigs did not.

Derived characters: Apollo, Mithra

Wane

The feminine moon faces down during the first half of the month. She is a huntress, symbolized by the bow that resembles the crescent moon. She is also associated with traps and trickery.

Derived characters: Artemis, Bahram, Rudra (through merger with Wax)

Wax

The masculine form of the moon faces down during the second half of the month. He is a herder and a stalker, a half-wild man who spends most of his time in the wilderness. He is always depicted with horns, echoing the crescent moon, although the type of horn varies by culture. Due to the horns evoking the image of the crescent moon, it is more important that the character has horns than what animal the horns come from. The people would make the headdress or helmet from whatever horns were available, or whatever horned animal in their local environment seemed most evocative of his character.

Together, the moon twins represent people who spend long periods of time away from the core tribe – hunters and herders – who are nevertheless valuable and well-regarded members of the community. These people may be prone to troublemaking when they return, but their hearts are in the right place. They may be prone to taking things too far, but they are still trustworthy allies.

Over time, the hunting, wildness, and herding aspects of these gods tended to be divided among several characters.

Associated with a reliable source of protein that was not as prestigious as the sun-meat, such as goats or sheep, or cows in a place where boar meat had become more prestigious.

Derived characters: Pan, Dionysius, Chandra, Naigamesha, Tyr, Leshy

The Wolf

The Wolf twins are born from the mating between Earth Mother and a dog. The dog seems to have represented a warrior in the Sky Father’s employ. The circumstances of the Wolf Twins’ conception may have been rape, or the act may have shifted to rape in an effort to redeem the Earth Mother in later mythologies. One way or another, the act was regarded as profoundly immoral, and produced corrupt, half-animal children.

In this worldview, dogs are the original animal and wolves are a corruption. Wolves represent the rapacious hunger of a person who has forgotten their humanity. They were seen as voracious beasts who consume well beyond what their environment can support. There were also seen as sowers of betrayal. The tribe would know that any puppies born from the union of a wolf and a dog would have to be destroyed. 

Derived characters: Fenrir, Angra Mainyu, Minotaur

The Witch

The Witch is the feminine form of the Wolf. She is a seductress and a manipulator.

Together, the corrupt Wolf twins embody the worst taboos of the culture – cannibalism, rape, murder, etc. However, they are still a part of the tribe, representing an internal threat despite their association with foreboding wilderness and animal nature.

As with most evil characters, the wolf twins alternated between existential threats who operated with brutal and terrifying efficiency and comic buffoonery. The stories exist to assure the audience that, however dangerous, the wolf twins can always be beaten. Unfortunately, while they can never win, they can also never be permanently killed, so the tribe must learn to live with these animalistic impulses rather than eradicate them.

The werewolf and witch are men and women who have crossed a taboo boundary and become liminal figures in a different way than the moon gods. The wolf twins were represented in the sky by an invisible “dark moon” that caused eclipses and the phases of the visible moon each month by consuming the other celestial bodies.

Derived characters: Angrboda, Echidna

Fire/Smith

Fire seems to have been regarded as the third element of life, and fire accordingly had an elevated position in the pantheon compared to later European branches, more in line with the role of Agni in Vedic. Like Earth and Air, Fire had its own fickles. Fire seems to have been the source of the inner energy, the concept that would eventually evolve into the soul in PIE-derived theologies. Warm-blooded animals, including humans, all had a bit of this inner fire. Cold blooded animals, such as those in oceans, were animated by a different source altogether, and were thus considered toxic.

Associations: Light, fire, metal working, hearths, souls, jealousy, voyeurism

Derived characters: Agni, Hephaestus

Sea Serpent

The sea serpent, together with Fire, appears to have been one of two animating forces in the natural world. She likely formed the female counterpart to the male Fire, representing darkness and a kind of anti-life force. She represented the threat of true foreigners. Unlike the wolf twins, who were members of the tribe whose antics had to be coped with, the sea serpent was a force of utter oblivion who had to be opposed with every power.

The foreigners would be represented as forces of darkness and associated with sea serpents, undeath, salt, stone, and poison. Essentially, powers that the inland hunter-gatherers telling these stories did not trust because they were controlled by coastal herders, or even seafaring agriculturalists by this point.

In addition to death, the sea serpents had the ability to rob people and land of their fertility. The sea was seen as a source of enemies not just of the people but also of the rest of creation. Those who died by the sea were claimed by her, isolated from all other sources of life, and therefore could neither be re-embraced by the Mother nor raised up to live in heaven to serve the Father. This was the worst possible fate for the soul.

Among the people who this story was originally popular with, the only salt water they would know would be inland seas, which they imagined to be fresh water that had been poisoned by some great beast. This explained why the sky was always zapping the seas.

When this story eventually became popular among people who made their living on the coasts, the snake goddess was downgraded to a monster and replaced by a masculine god of the sea who embodied the new, positive attitudes towards it.

This attitude towards the sea may explain why PIE agriculturalists entering an area is associated with the abandonment of fish as a food source.

Derived characters: Medusa, Ran, Jormangandr

The Koryos

The Koryos was a group of teenagers who were put through an initiation rite where they would spend some time in the wilderness. While in the wilderness, the normal rules of society would be relaxed. The boys, and possibly girls, free from tribal morality, would have to survive on their own wits, working together to endure the harsh winter.

The koryos was overseen by an adult or older teen, and likely resembled initiation rites that continue to the current day. The boys would spend long periods alone, be brought together to share intimate secrets, be put through a series of trials, and then culminate their adventure with some group project that they can offer the tribe to show that they are ready to rejoin as adults. Because of the relaxed morality, this boon may be something that the tribe normally discourages, such as vigilantism or poaching.

The Guardians

The sun is protected by two human escorts who are associated with the twin stars Castor and Pollux. These escorts would be called up to rescue the Dawn each winter and would accompany the sun as it crossed the sky the rest of the year.

The escorts seem to have been associated with whatever the most powerful military technology of the day was. Their phases were:

1. Shapeshifters – Shapeshifting, especially voluntary shapeshifting, represented mastery over emotions, which was the most powerful tool in a battle when everybody had roughly the same stone spears and bows.
2. Horsemen – Mastery over emotions is great and all, but trampling your enemy with a warhorse is better.
3. Charioteers – The chariot displaced the horse as the next dominant military technology. The next transformative military technology, the phalanx, signaled the end of this story’s relevance, so the twins are preserved as charioteers in most legends.

I believe the Guardians were of paramount interest to the tribes. While the gods were engaged in their cosmic battle, the Guardians would exemplify the greatest heights that a human could rise to. In PIE religion, most people likely returned to the Mother’s embrace to repeat the cycle of life in some way. Very special people, however, could be raised into the sky where they could live forever in the realm of the Father.

The First Age

PIE-derived belief systems perceive themselves to be living in a third age of humanity. During the first age, humans lived directly under the protective auspices of the gods. They interacted regularly, like fellow villagers or even family members.

The first age would have begun when two spirits, one of darkness and one of light, one female and one male, coalesced out of the primordial chaos, perhaps hatching from a cosmic egg. At some point, for some reason, the spirit of light slew the spirit of darkness and divided its body into three parts. One part became the sky, one part the earth, and the spirit of light used a portion of his own life force to bring these new creatures to life. The head, which remembers this betrayal, became bitter and swore vengeance on the spirit of light, encircling the earth and sky to become the oceans.

This story has been reconstructed by scholars as the story of Manu and Yemo.

The first age would have ended when humans acquired some technology that the gods never meant for us to have, probably fire, breaking the compact between us and causing the gods to withdraw their full protection.

The Second Age

During the Second Age, the gods are more distant but still intervene frequently enough in the lives of men. They pick favorites, they make deals, they reward good behavior directly and punish bad behavior explicitly.

Also during the Second Age, larger-than-life heroes bestride the world, civilizing the chaotic realms. They fight monsters, settle new territories, and win great wars against more powerful enemies of surpassing, almost cartoonish, evil. These heroes are vulnerable to some faults that we modern people are more aware of, but we cannot judge them too harshly because the world was not fully ordered yet and they did not know any better. This would have been the era when Trito walked the earth, subduing it with his warrior's strength and cunning.

These events would have been understood to have happened in the past. The stories would still be retold frequently and evolve over time, but these events cannot change the future of the tribe, nor can their consequences be undone.

• There is a king who is wise, but prone to neglect his duties and his wife.
• There is a queen who is wise, but a bit needy.
• They have two sets of twins: Dawn, Sol, Wax, and Wane.
• The queen’s eye wanders to one of the king’s bravest warriors.
  • This character was associated with Sirius, whose rising signaled the final days of summer, when the tribe would have to work hardest to prepare for the winter.
• One of their advisors or allies knows about this tryst but says nothing.
• When the third set of twins are born, they look nothing like the king. The affair is revealed.
• The King spares the wife, but kills the warrior, banishes the advisor, and orders the children exposed in the forest.
  • This is when the god of fire acquires its curse to be all-consuming, preventing it from touching other creatures without destroying them.
• Instead of killing the children, the Earth Mother gives them to Fire and entrusts him to raise them away from the King’s sight.
  • This explains why the shadow moon is never visible during the day, unless it is attacking the sun (i.e. a solar eclipse) while the visible moon occasionally visits their father.
• When they are old enough, the wolf children vow revenge against their parents and siblings.

The Third Age

The Second Age ended when some aspect of these great heroes’ increasingly unstable culture angers the gods enough to deliver a new order to the people. Once this happens, the gods retreat, leaving the people responsible for sustaining this order until their return. This is the age that all humans live in “now.” The world has been ordered for us by gods and ancestors far greater than we. Our role in history is only to sustain the great sacrifices of our ancestors by keeping their society functional as they intended. This order creates the structure of our lives, our societies, our cosmology, and our time.

This is the cycle of the universe that neolithic PIE people believed that they lived in, with the shadow moon continually attempting to destroy the sun and steal the inheritance of godhood from the sky. What follows is probably only one of many epic stories about this struggle.

The PIE calendar was dominated by three elaborate feasts, each of which linked back to this story and to the responsibility of every member of the community to sustain the cycle of nature.

Fall

The first feast occurred in the harvest season. While hunter-gatherers did not have a harvest exactly like the later agriculturalists, they still had a period of time when they had to motivate themselves and others in order to prepare for the lean times of winter.

The idea that there is a need to work quickly in order to race some supernatural entity for the crops is preserved in the idea of the Grain Wolf or the Grain Witch. This was an effigy made from the first bushel of the harvest and then ritualistically trapped in a barn until the harvest could be completed. When the harvest was done, the grain witch was burned in a rite that may be related to the practice of the wicker man described in Celtic practice by Romans and Greeks.

While the harvest might be safe, the first feast would be occasion for the “season premier” of this winter’s cycle, indicating that the stakes and conflicts would continue to rise for the rest of the season, but simultaneously reassuring the people that it would arrive at a predictable conclusion.

• The estranged twins would begin the next phase of their never-ending quest to usurp control from the King.
• The wolf twins split up. The Werewolf forms a warband and begins harrying the countryside, calling out the King and his warriors.Wax and Wane go out to hold them off while the people bring everything they can in from the fields.
  • This story would be told during the hunter/gatherer equivalent of the “harvest” period. The people spend their time preparing for the hard battle ahead by stockpiling food and traveling to safer places.
• Unbeknownst to her parents, the Witch returns to the palace and seduces her mother’s husband. The Earth Mother is pushed aside and the youngest daughter becomes consort.
  • This story would be told during the spookiest time of the autumn, after the harvest, when winter is imminent and dark spirits seem to gather in the world.

Winter

Those participating in the koryos would follow the horned god into the forest to become his hunting dogs.

• The Witch poisons the King’s rule and sends the four remaining children into hiding.
  • This would be the occasion for the last feast on whatever the tribe’s most desirable meat source was. This would signal the end of the hunting season for that animal, to ensure that enough stock survived to replenish in the spring. The tribe would shift their focus to a secondary meat source, such as goats.
  • At the rising of the Pleiades, the horned god arrives to collect that year’s crop of teenagers for the koryos.
  • The siblings may have descended to Earth during this time, or they may have empowered humans as their messengers, or they may have sent avatars from their realms.
• Sol forms his own warband with the aid of two tribes of equal renown. Together with the leaders of these two tribes, he forms a three-part bond of brotherhood.
  • This story would be told during the rising of the constellation Gemini over the horizon.
  • While it does not seem to have been a feast day, I believe that the rising of the twin stars, symbolizing the sun’s escorts leaving their station to participate in the battle against the wolf, would have been an important event in the story arc.
• Dawn goes into hiding, but she is found by the Werewolf. He rapes her or marries her or in some other way stakes a claim over her that is only partially recognized by the society. This is symbolized by sharing his food, in the ancient tradition of hospitality, which turns out to be human.
  • This is the explanation for the lack of sun in the morning and evening during the winter. The Dawn is serving her time in the Wolf’s camp.
• Wax and Wane become wanderers, but continue to fight wolf collaborators wherever they find them. The sister, adept at trapping, leads the wolf into clever set ups. The brother, adept at stalking, sneaks up on them and chases them away. This continues until the sister is grievously wounded.
  • This is the explanation for the cycles of the moon. The middle sister lures the wolf away from his hunt for the sun, often risking herself to do so. She is slowly consumed by the wolf, until her brother appears to chase the wolf out of the sky again, forcing him to regurgitate the sister. (This continues monthly, even after the wolf twins have been defeated this time, because they can never be defeated forever.)
  • Eating and regurgitating alive seems to be a common trait of gods, as was getting cut into pieces and put back together.
• Losing battles, the werewolf joins forces with foreign serpents.
  • This betrayal of the tribe’s sovereignty would be perceived as an even more grievous taboo than the rapes, murders, and cannibalism that the wolves have already committed.
• Wax and Wane travel far away and request the aid of the children in the koryos to help them defeat the wolf.
  • This story would be told when the moon passes through the Pleiades in February. The pleiades may represent some legendary Koryos from another story that were granted immortality so that they could aid the moon in this battle.
  • The moon approaching and passing through the Pleiades probably triggered the end of the koryos and the start of the kids’ “final project.”
• Fire redeems himself by helping the eldest daughter to escape, interfering with the Werewolf’s plans for subverting the inheritance.
  • This story would redeem the fire god who, while unpredictable, was considered more of an ally than the poisonous sea snake goddess. This explains why the fire god does not forsake the humans, even in the darkest part of the winter when his relationships with the Earth and Sky seem strained.
• The Witch tries many times to conceive by the old King, but her children are monstrous or diseased.
• The various tribes and heroes unite for a massive battle. During the battle, one of the Gemini twins is killed.
  • This story would be told as the Southern half of Gemini dipped below the horizon in March.
  • Although internecine conflicts between the tribes were most likely constant, this story would remind the tribe to be supportive of other tribes in their confederation, lest they become vulnerable to either foreign invasion or temptation to resort to poaching on their neighbors’ range.
  • A derivative of this battle and characters may be depicted on the Gundestrup cauldron and the Torslunda plates.

Spring

Following the great battle, all that is left for the heroes to do is unseat the pretender queen and restore the balance between the true Father and Mother.

• After routing the youngest brother, the heroes return home in disguise. They reveal themselves and eject the youngest sister, restoring their mother to her rightful place. The King, realizing he has been duped, says that the youngest twins will forever be enemies of humanity and all of life, and promises never to fall for their tricks ever again, even though everybody knows he probably will again next year.
  • This story would be told during the Spring festival, when the “family” is reunited and several months of relatively easy living are ahead for the hunter-gatherer tribes.
  • The children of the koryos would return to the tribe when they are able to suppress their animal natures and only call upon them when they are useful to the tribe (in battle, when hunting). They would become “human” again, and symbolically “true” sons of their fathers, as their full humanity was still in question up to this point.
  • A Spring festival seems to be an ancient practice in most of Europe and Asia, but the linking between the festival and the specific date of the solstice, as in neo-paganism, seems to be more recent than the bronze age. The Spring festival may have originally been determined by a lunar calendar kept according to the “story” that unfolded in the cosmos, rather than by counting specific dates. The sky would tell the people when it was time for the festival, not the other way around.
• The wolf twins flee into the forest, where they attempt to rebuild their warband by seducing good hearted people with promises of sex or wealth; having many monstrous children both with each other and with mortals, each of whom torment humanity and the gods with their own gimmicks; and tricking good people who are not sufficiently wary into doing their bidding.
• This story would begin the cycle all over again, with the wolf twins attempting a new plot against the royal family throughout the next year. In fact, this outline may represent several “seasons” of the series merged together. Identifying a single, specific storyline at this point is probably impossible.

Power thus passes from the king to the eldest son, who is a wise and brave warrior, restoring balance to the kingdom.

Because I went slightly over the character limit, please check out the first comment for discussion of the Fourth Age, and where the story went once people started to realize there was no second moon.

I want to talk about Philippine mythology with someone, but my friends aren’t really interested. It’s rich with a lot of myths and I’m sad that it isn’t that well known. But I understand why it’s not famous, most of the information are long gone and the only ones we have are from Spanish texts.

Anyone wanna chat about it?

The immortal sage Kaka Bhusunda explains what is it like to be an immortal to sage Vasishta in Yoga Vasishta. He was the chronicler of all antiquity, and the recorder of the wars of the gods and demons, and the hurling of the high hills in heaven; and yet he was of a clear countenance and profound mind.

The following are some of the things that he witnessed during his long existence:

I remember, O great sage! the earth beneath this mount of Meru to have been once a desolate land, and having no hill or rock, nor trees, plants or even grass upon it.

I remember also the earth under me, to have been full of ashes for a period of myriads and centuries of years.

I remember a time when the lord of day—the sun was unproduced, and when the orb of the moon was not yet known, and when the earth under me was not divided by day and light, but was lighted by the light of this mount of Meru.

I remember this mountain throwing the light of its gems on one side of the valley below it, and leaving the other in utter darkness; and resembling the lokaloka mount presenting its light and dark side to the people on either side of the horizon.

I remember to have seen the war rising high between the gods and demons, and the flight and slaughter of people on all sides of the earth.

I remember to have seen no other creature on earth, except the vegetable creation for the long duration of one half of the four yuga-ages.

I also remember this earth to be full of mountains and mountainous tracts, for the space of full four yugas; when there were no men peopled on earth, nor their customs and usages got their ground in it.

I remember to have seen this earth filled with the bones of dead Daityas and other fossil remains, rising in heaps like mountains, and continuing in their dilapidated and crumbling state for myriads of years.

I have beheld innumerable Munis and manwantaras pass away before me, and I have known hundreds of the quadruple yugas glide away one after the other, all of which were full of great deeds and events; but which are now buried in oblivion.

I remember that age of the world, when the world was a void, and there was no earth or sky nor any of their inhabitants in it, neither men nor mountains were in existence, nor were there the sun and moon to divide the days and nights.

I remember likewise the varying positions and boundaries of countries, and also the very changing and diversified actions and occupations of their people. I remember too the various costumes and fashions and amusements of men, during the ceaseless course of days and nights in the endless duration of time.

I carry in my memory the exploits of the demons Hiranyaksha, Kalanimi, Hayagriva, Hiranyakasipu, Vati and Prahlada and many others of the Danava or Demoniac race.

I remember after the lapse of a thousand cycles of the four Yuga ages, that Brahma created from his mind some aerial beings of unearthly forms; and these spiritual beings occupied a space extending over ten cycles of creations.

I remember to have seen also many new productions and inventions, following one another in succeeding age; and it is impossible to enumerate this innumerable series of things.

This cosmic phenomenon is no reality, nor it is even in existence; it is but a temporary illusion, and appears as bubble of water to disappear in next moment. This temporary illusion of the phenomenals, rises and sets in the conscious soul of its own accord.

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I've been wanting to get stuck into the details of Basque myth and folklore for some time now, from a somewhat more academic/anthropological angle, but all the resources I've found online have been somewhat sketchy with details at best. Does anyone know good sources/books to start off with on the topic?

Hello everyone, I'm looking for interesting myths or stories related to astronomy in any mythology Mesopotamia, Greece, Greeks, Egyptian I'm looking for a unique name for an astronomy club Thanks to everyone

As demonstrated by the story below, the Kingdom of Heaven is a state of mind. The demon in the story below was the emperor of the whole universe, of 14 worlds spread across the heaven, earth and the underworld, but he still couldn't find the kingdom of heaven. He finally found the Kingdom of Heaven by attaining to Samadhi/Enlightenment.

“There once lived a matchless king of Asuras named Bali who reigned over Pātāla as an emperor over it. He made the whole word tremble underneath his potent arms and was able to overpower and humiliate even Īswara, Viṣṇu and others. He was the son of the noble Virocana and reigned powerfully for ten crores of years. Having ascended the topmost story of his palace …

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…teeming with windows and bedecked with gems brought from the Mahāmeru heights surrounded by guards, alone he gave vent to the following series of reflections with a mind disgusted with material pleasures and contemplating upon Saṃsāra (this mundane existence).

You can read the full story of the demon’s enlightenment in Yoga Vasishta.

Aside from Amazons or Valkyries, are there any mythical female warrior groups?

In morden day practice we have seen reconstruction of old practices and religions so that they become more easily accessible to a normal person and sometimes these practices have also revived old religions into new forms like kemeticism and hellenism. I was wondering in oceania is there any similar type of reconstruction of all traditional beliefs into one religion?

I've heard it before, but I need sources.

Guardians of directions, Dikpala, Bacab, Four Heavenly Kings, Four sons of Horus, Nordri, Sudri, Austri and Vestri.

Osiris is the god of underworld and death. He is the son of sun god Ra. He is the judge of the dead in afterlife. He is depicted as either green or black in complexion. His wife and sister Isis flooded the Nile river with her tears while mourning the death of Osiris. Yama is the god of underworld and death. He is the son of sun god Surya. He is the judge of the dead in afterlife. He is depicted as either green or black in complexion. River Yamuna was created from the tears of his wife and sister Yamuna or Yami when she mourned his death.

The pronunciation of god Ptah is similar to Pitah meaning father in Indian language. Ptah being an architect is similar to Vishwakarma. Brahma who was born from the lotus flower is similar to Nefertem who was born from the lotus.

Iusaaset is described as the shadow/wife of Atum. Atum is the finisher of the world. Iusaaset is associated with tree of life. Atum is associated with snake, bull, lion. Parvati is the other half of Shiva in Ardhanarishvara form. Shiva is the destroyer of the world. Parvati is associated with Kalpavriksha, tree of life.

In the Lost Books of Merlyn: Druid Magic from the Age of Arthur there is a chapter known as Bindu suspension which is similar to Patanjali’s yoga process and meditation. In meditation, focusing on the bindu can help bring the mind into a state of stillness and concentration.

Rama, the ideal king. Rama lifts the bow which no one else can. Menaka seduces Vishwamitra, teacher of Rama. Shanta, estranged sister of Rama. Ravana abducts Sita. Lakshmana and Shatrughna, twin brothers of Rama. Lakshmana the loyal companion of Rama. When the people questioned Sita’s relationship with Ravana, instead of keeping her and doing what was best for the two of them Rama listened to his people. Sita had to enter the fire. Vishwamitra was originally a warrior who became a sage. A witch or Yakshini named Takata used to trouble Vishwamitra. Maricha transformed into a deer and imitated the sound of Sita.

Arthur the ideal king. Arthur lifts the lifts the sword which no one else can. Nimue seduces Merlin, teacher of Arthur. Morgause, estranged sister of Arthur. Meleagant abducts Guinevere. Lancelot and Mordred, twin brothers of Arthur. Lancelot the loyal companion of Arthur. When the whole city found out that Guinevere was cheating on Arthur with Lancelot. Instead of keeping her at the City and doing what was best for the two of them he listened to his towns people. They wanted Guinevere to face her acts of unfaithfulness and die in a fire. Merlin was originally a warrior who went crazy, wandered in forests and gradually became a wizard. A witch named Madam Mim used to trouble Merlin. Morgana used a powerful glamour enchantment to turn Guinevere into a deer.

Beli Mawr also called Beli, Belin, Belinos, Belinus, Bellinus, Belenos. Some say Balder of Aesir is also Beli Mawr. Lleu Llaw Gyffes who cannot be killed during the day or night, nor indoors or outdoors, neither riding nor walking, not clothed and not naked, nor by any weapon lawfully made is similar to Hiranyakashipu. Lleu Llaw Gyffes is the nephew of Beli Mawr (Beli the Great). Hiranyakashipu is the grandfather of Bali Maharaj (Bali the Great).

Shukra was the teacher of Asura. He had one eye. He was the son of Bhrigu and grandson of Brahma. Shukra is considered as a poet. Odin was the father of Aesir. He had one eye. He was the son of Burr and grandson of Buri. Odin is considered as a poet. Odin was swallowed by wolf Fenrir. Shukra was swallowed by Shiva. Sirius dog star is associated with Rudra. Tyr lost his hand to Fenrir. Savitr lost his hand to Shiva. Both Odin and Shukracharya hung upside down from a tree over a fire. Both had a head as an assistant, head of Rahu for Shukra and head of Mimir for Odin. Mimir was sent by the Aesir as hostage to the Vanir, but he was beheaded and his head was returned to the Aesir.

Goddess Deh₂nu, Danu, Don, Danava, Danaans, Dan, the Danes.

Goddess Athena is like goddess Saraswati. In Roman mythology, the Dragon constellation represents the dragon killed by the goddess Minerva (Athena) and was tossed into the sky. Goddess Saraswati killed or assisted Indra in killing the dragon Vritra.

Dagda's Cauldron and Akshayapatra never ran out of food, although Akshayapatra had a condition applied to it that it gave food for the day until Draupadi ate.

The thunderbird and horned serpent fight in Native American myths is similar to the Garuda Naga fight. The underwater horned serpent has a crystal located on its head. The hood of the Naga is decorated by a jewel, a source of light of which illuminates this realm. Vanaras, Howler monkey gods, the twin brothers Vali and Sugriva and Hun Batz and Hun Chowen.

Apep is embodiment of chaos. He is shown as a giant serpent. Apep was the greatest enemy of Ra. Apep tries to swallow the sun. Rahu is the embodiment of chaos. He is shown as a serpent. Rahu was the greatest enemy of Surya. Rahu tries to swallow the sun.

Dhanvantari was the physician of gods and god of Ayurveda. He emerged from the Ocean of Milk when the ocean was churned by a rod (Mount Mandara) entwined by a serpent (Vasuki). Asclepius was the god medicine. The rod of Asclepius, a snake-entwined staff is a symbol of medicine.

Manu is a title accorded to a progenitor of humanity after the great flood at the end of each Manavantara. The current Manu, Vaivasvata is similar to Noah. Swayambhu born with the body of his father Brahma like Adam was created in the image of god. Swayambhu and Shatarupa are the first humans like Adam and Eve.

Ahasuerus/Ashwathama, the cursed wandering immortal.

Thor slayed the serpent Jormungand. Indra slayed the dragon Vritra. Indra did penance for the sin of slaying Vritra. Appolo slayed the serpent. Killing of serpent was considered a sin according to the laws of Mount Olympus and Appolo had to purify himself.

Heimdall was the son of 9 mothers. He was the watchman of gods. His statue is accompanied by a rooster. He is shown with a rainbow. Skanda/Kartikeya was the son of 6 mothers. He was the commander of gods. His flag is rooster symbol. He is shown with a peacock/rainbow. If we include Arundhati and Parvati too who were two other main ladies though not directly involved in the circumstances of the birth of Skanda, we get nine mothers. The child was born after Rudra entered Agni or Rudra possessed Agni, so he is considered the son of Rudra and Agni. Pleiades nakshatra is associated with Agni god of fire. Pleiades in Greek religion is associated with The Seven Star-nymph Sisters (like Svaha and the six ladies).

Gods and demons pulled the Rope of Time as outlined in the Egyptian tomb. Gods and demons pulled Vasuki, the serpent king as rope. Vasuki's elder brother Shesha is a symbol of time. When Sheshanaga uncoils, time moves forwards and when he coils, world ceases to exist.

Demeter is the goddess of harvest and grains. Known as Europa, one with broad eyes. Annapoorna is the goddess of food, grains and nourishment. Known as Visalakshi, one with large eyes.

Bellerophon rode Pegasus, the winged horse. Ballerophon lost the battle at Mount Olympus. Bali rode Uchchaihshravas the winged horse. Bali lost the battle at Mount Meru. Both Ballerophon's and Bali's downfall was caused by their hubris. Zues and his son Ares, god of war, fought for Hector against Achilles in battle for Helen. Bellerophon's grandsons fought the Trojan war. Achilles dies shot in the ankle at the end of the war. Helen means shining light. Shiva and his son Skanda, god of war, fought for Banasura against Krishna in battle for Usha. Bali's son Banasura fought in this war. Krishna dies shot in the ankle soon after this war. Usha in Sanskrit means dawn. Uttara ran away from the Kaurava army. Paris ran away from the Greek army. Achilles comes alone in his chariot to challenge Hector. Krishna comes alone in his chariot to challenge Kalayavana.

Goddess trinity. Athena is goddess of arts, crafts, wisdom. Athena is known for her calm temperament. Saraswati is goddess of knowledge, arts, wisdom. Saraswati is known as a gentle goddess. Aphrodite is goddess of love, beauty, pleasure. Associated with Venus. Lakshmi is goddess of wealth, beauty, fortune. Associated with Venus. Lakshmi and Aphrodite were born as adults and had no childhood. They rose from the ocean. Hera is goddess of women and marriage. Parvati is goddess of women, life, family.

Garuda is younger brother of Aruna. Garuda associated with Garuda Purana, book that deals with soul after death. Horus is associated with Egyptian book of the dead. Garuda often acts as a messenger between the gods and men and is called the ranger of the skies. Anzu steals the tablets of destiny. Anzu is the servant of chief sky god Enlil. Ninruta chases Anzu with his thunderbolts. Garuda steals the elixir of immortality. Garuda is the servant of chief god Vishnu. Indra chases Garuda with his thunderbolts. Both Anzu and Gardua are bird-like figures.

Apkallu and Enki and Saptarishis and Shiva.

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Artemis is the goddess hunt, wild animals, wilderness, childbirth. Daughter of Zeus and Leto. Artemis is considered as a tree goddess. Aranyani is the goddess of forests and animals. Considered a symbol of fertility. Daughter of Shiva and Parvati. Aranyani was created from the divine tree called Kalpavriksha. Enki’s daughter is lady greenery.

Eight-pointed star of Inanna and Lakshmi.

How far can you go O king, asked the priest to Alexander the Great at Kurukshetra. How far can you go O king, asked the priest to Bali the Great at Kurukshetra. - from the book Murder of Alexander the Great: Book 1 - The Puranas.

The “Pillar of Fire” is described in the Holy Books of three major world religions, Buddhism of course in the Maha Ummaga Jataka as the “Aggi Khanda”, in Hinduism as the “Anala Stambha” in the Shiva Purana, and in the Torah (Exodus 13:21-22) of Judaism a The Lord is described as guiding the Israelites as a Pillar of fire at night.

Achilles dragged the body of Hector. Krishna dragged the body of Kansa around the arena and a narrow trench was made by the body ploughing the ground. Zues and his son Ares, god of war, fought for Hector against Achilles in battle for Helen. Bellerophon's grandsons fought the Trojan war. Achilles dies shot in the ankle at the end of the war. Helen means shining light. Shiva and his son Skanda, god of war, fought for Banasura against Krishna in battle for Usha. Bali's son Banasura fought in this war. Krishna dies shot in the ankle soon after this war. Usha in Sanskrit means dawn. Uttara ran away from the Kaurava army. Paris ran away from the Greek army. Achilles comes alone in his chariot to challenge Hector. Krishna comes alone in his chariot to challenge Kalayavana.

Hermes is a messenger of god who can move freely between worlds. He is a trickster who outsmarts gods. God of music, poetry, roads, travellers, robbers etc. God of enticement. God of merchants, trade etc. Narada is a messenger who travels different Lokas at will. Narada is a trickster. He is regarded as foremost of singers. There are stories of Narada's encounters with robbers on the roads. Narada is a trikster. There are regulations of law, commerce, economics etc. attributed to Narada.

Atlas holds up the sky. Atlas tried to drive away Perseus who tried to steal golden apples from his orchard. Shesha holds up the universe. Balarama was an avatar of Shesha and he tried to chase Arjuna who abducted Subhadra from Dwaraka.

Shani, the son of Surya, is considered lame and limps. His mother was the daughter of Vishwakarma (god of artisans). Haphaestus (god of artisans) is considered lame and limps.

Varuna abducted his niece Bhadra. Bhadra’s husband Utathya ordered the earth to become barren. Hades abducted his niece Persephone. Demeter forbids the earth to reproduce.

Skoll chases the Sun and Hadi chases the Moon. Rahu swallows the Sun and Ketu swallows the Moon. Rahu is blue is color and Ketu is brown in color.

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A few years back, I found a site that listed demon names but without any source or explanation.

There was one demon called "Coco" (or "Cocoto"?) that was said to be a demon (female) worshipped for being inside of a well and bringing life and prosperity to a village. Coco was apparently warding off evil spirits, despite being a demon herself. Does anyone have any more info on that?

I'm basically trying to write a story revolving around demons, so I need as many as possible and with sources on what people believed they do, or were responsible for. (Hence, why Icome forth with these very specific questions.)

Thanks to the help of r/GreekMythology (shoutout to u/OutisNemo21 u/jazz-music-starts u/richsherrywine), I got to find about the specific version of Charybdis I learned about back in the day, and where it came from. So I want to share it.

Basically, in the Hatier edition of the Odysseus, a French version made for children, they were multiple uncredited stories about the creatures of this world.

Here was Charybdis': "Charybdis, daughter of Poseidon, and beautiful woman, was always famished. She could not stop herself from eating everything she could come across to the point of insanity. On a faithful day, she devoured a sacred herd of bulls, gifted to Heracles. Lying within the blood and corpses of the animals, Zeus descended before her, and punished her gluttony by having her become a bottomless abyss. She was now bound to swallow the seas, gagging on the water and vomitting it in a boiling fury three times a day, before the entrance of Skylla's cave."

This tale is actually from the commentary of Virgile, by Servius around the 4th century of Rome. Here is the original text:

"Charybdis autem in Siciliae parte posita femina fuit voracissima, ex Neptuno et Terra genita, quae, quia boves Herculis rapuit, fulminata a Iove est et in maria praecipitata: unde naturam pristinam servat; nam sorbet universa quae prehendit et secundum Sallustium ea circa Tauromenitanum egerit litus."

As you can see, it is mostly untouched, although some details were added for more striking imagery and gruesome details.

Personally, I like this version more than the one who got cursed by Zeus for helping her father during a war, or the Greek one that is just a monster from the get go, because it makes an interesting contrast to Scylla's roman version.

Scylla was a nymph, who got unfairly punished and reduced to a hideous creature. She's the "merciful" option even if she's brutal, because she only eats as much as she needs.

Charybdis was a monster in a human skin who lost her entire being, and even her entire physical existence given the text, to the sea that she came from, forced to stuff her "mouth" to the point of nausea, for being gluttunous to the point of monstrosity. She still can't stop engulfing everything around her.

And both are poetically put together. I find that horrifying and fascinating.

What do you think of this version of the character?

Bonus- another entity is with them who has a human shaped body but very sharp claws, razor sharp teeth and scraggly long white hair with hair loss? Lots of wrinkles, once again. Scary looking. They are a cave like place or underground and the beasts are with each other near an open entrance, presumably guarding the entrance.

In other version of Seven Princes of Hell Abaddon was The Prince of Sloth but people loved the other version of Seven Princes of Hell (where Belphegor is Sloth) and forget about Abaddon

And there were 8 sins before The Seven Deadly Sins trope

Gula (gluttony) Luxuria/Fornicatio (lust, fornication) Avaritia (greed) Tristitia (sorrow/despair/despondency) Ira (wrath) Acedia (sloth) Vanagloria (vainglory) Superbia (pride, hubris)

This was one of the forms

Now if you think about it The 8th Sin still could exist because Despair is strong and everyone Fears Abaddon so it's would make "sense" that he would be The 8th Prince of Hell after all He is The Angel of Abyss and people associate Abyss with Despair/Sorrow

So I think The Modern version of The Deadly Sins would be something like this

Lucifer - Pride. Beelzebub - Gluttony. Asmodeus - Lust. Leviathan - Envy. Belphegor - Sloth. Mammon - Greed. Satan - Wrath. Abaddon - Despair.

But I want to know what you guys think if it's would be accurate or have other ideas who could be a Prince of Hell in modern myths.

Are there known vessels that can contain a Vörðr or wraith?

I'm hoping for an instance of a known box/amulet/fetish.

Hi, i'm working on a creative project and i was researching material regarding monster hunters throughout the world's cultures. Unfortunately research is quite hard because any attempt at research results in info about the capcom game series, which is definitely not what i'm interested in.

When i say "monster hunter" i am implying the western conception of say, van helsing or the witcher geralt, but generally i'd like references to any legendary figures who fought the supernatural in mythology.

I know he's some kind of god or something, but I don't know what exactly he is, I don't know if anyone here knows what he is?

Its very difficult for me to tell what's fiction and what's real in the bible sometimes.

Parts of the Exodus story are intriguing to me. They sound oddly historical, in a context that sounds completely mythical. For example, the manna that Moses gave Israel. It appears with quails, meaning it grows in fields fertilized with quail feces. It is small and white and must be baked immediately to stop it from spoiling. It specifically turns into goop if you try to store it. It is white like snow and dries into what looks like a seed. This is an inky cap mushroom! Mushrooms were called The Food From Osiris in Egypt; manna (literally meaning "what is it?") is called The Food From God.

In the New Testament there are passages that seem terribly cruel to be made up. In Acts 5, Peter invites a man named Ananias in to his tent to be initiated. Peter asks him if he had donated all the money from the sale of his land. Ananias said yes. But Peter apparently knew he didn't, (maybe he had Spies, or maybe he was just schizophrenic and paranoid). So Peter very specifically and cryptically says to him "The feet of them that will bury your husband are by the door." And the guy dies via a heart attack. They wrap his body up to hide that it's a body and go and bury him to hide the evidence. Three hours later, after some reflection, Peter calls in his wife. To repent, right? Nope. He does the exact same thing to her. And repeats the same oddly specific cryptic phrase before she dies. I can't accept that this is just a myth. It's too weird and sounds like something out of the Jim Jones cult. I mean, Peter can supposedly raise people from the dead, but he can't multiply food to feed everyone? He needs to kill people because they didn't give up all their possessions to him? It's so sick. So sick. It has to be historical.

Does anyone know of a group who worshipped a big Pantheon but at some point banned a the public worship of a single deity?

Not like Christians coming in and going, "Screw your gods! I've got a better one!" but like a group of pagan people who's leader or collective decided "Hey, we really don't like this one guy in particular, so he can't sit with us anymore."

I'm working on a story and need a list of evil gods (not goddesses) not from popular mythology (like Greek or Egyptian mythology).

Could you also explain where these gods come from?

I have a university project based on folklore and the one I chose is the concept of Annwn from Welsh folklore such as the Mabinogion. This project is focused on what a gate of Annwn could look like and so I'm asking if anyone knows of any symbols, art, descriptions, depictions, important iconography etc of Annwn, or even just vague Welsh medieval symbols that are more than just the random spirals or "celtic" ones which are just nordic etc.

I know of the Cwn Annwn and am planning on including them in some form but any other important characters, creatures, plants, places, things I can turn into symbols and icon would be helpful. Sources are appreciated since I need citation/references, thank you :)

Personally, I've never cared for Hera much; to me she seems no different than those meek wives who purposefully turn a blind eye to their husband's infidelity/abusive ways.

I've always found Persephone and Artemis to be be more interesting, with Athena, up there along with Artemis and the Fates as feminist role models.

But I'm sincerely curious; being the sister and wife of Zeus, exactly how powerful does this make her among the rest of the pantheon? I've never heard any story in particular about her or how strong she is.

Can someone educate me about this?

Hi everyone! I'm looking for some good origin/creation myth book recs, preferably inclusive to non-western religion/beliefs.