Hear me out. Random thought. What if that little boy, dennis martin, who went missing decades ago… what if he had fallen into a sinkhole. (I’m obsessed with sinkholes so yeah, my mind went there.) check out this article supporting my theory. Sinkholes are a slow process, but the sudden collapse is usually unexpected and can vary in size. I’m wondering (really hoping) if he would be found someday as people explore these areas.

https://www.visitmysmokies.com/blog/smoky-mountains/sinkhole-in-smoky-mountains-to-become-second-grand-canyon/

I know most, if not all Missing 411 cases have a logical answer behind them that doesn’t involve aliens, cryptids, or the paranormal. But what are some cases you guys just can’t fathom a possible explanation for (given these cases exist)?

I've checked a few places and they're all SO EXPENSIVE!! One person wanted £2,000 for all 9?! So any help would be great

This is not an endorsement for a streaming service. I finished watching Episode 7: Smoky Mountain Nightmare on Hulu's OUT THERE: Crimes of the Paranormal series. The episode was pretty good. However, there was no discussion of the child-sized footprints that led to a stream and disappeared. However, there is disagreement if the prints belonged to Dennis, and I was completely shocked that crack researcher David Paulides was not interviewed (insert overly exaggerated gasp).

After what seems like years of searching and doing cross referencing with multiple sources I do believe I have found the “near” exact location of the Sierra Camp.

Where I previously thought it was, was in fact wrong and just over the past two weeks I gotten new leads that changed the location but was still in my original(2 years ago) suspected zone.

I have seen and read through what feels like 100’s of people saying where they think it is and to my surprise someone actually got it. One of those people actually took and posted a picture of them there. (If that was you, pm me. I have some questions for you).

My super fascination with the location is because I have had Class A sightings close to where this location and well as hearing “samurai chatter” come from a creek area during the night time. I do plan on having long duration recorders placed out to monitor animal and human activity. Wish me luck!

hi! im new to m411 cases and more than interested in them. my engagement of choice is via youtube videos, and ofc ive already found the lore lodge, and i love all of the extensive research he does, but for me it lacks atmosphere & more visual elements. any channel recommendations as somebody who’s new?

Be honest.

edit: Wow! I knew it! His stories were just too weird and wonderful and numerous to be legit!

I been curious as I been watching Missing411 cases on YouTube

There was a child that went missing in Oregon, very young lad and it was a huge investigation that was playing on the news every other day with new updates almost monthly.

I forgot the young lads name I remember he was blonde hair, blue eyes, maybe glasses. There were speculation that one or both parents did some foul play and murdered the child, or the child was kidnapped.

I left Oregon a few years after and I am unsure if the kid was found.

Anyone happen to know who or what I'm talking about or did I hallucinate the whole thing playing on the news? I remember this was before the Slenderman incident with the three teenage girls.

Stumbled across this episode last night and thought of the Missing 411 issues and experiences.

In a nutshell, it examines how park rangers look for people, how that fits with what people actually do when they get lost, and how new data studies are informing searches in different national parks.

You're lost in the wilderness. Now what? - Unexplainable (pca.st)

I'm agnostic re the controversies surrounding things re Missing 411 related stuff but find the how people go missing and how they are found, or not found, fascinating.

Bear with me, fellow Missing411 fans, i enjoy these stories as much as you do. However, after listeneing to hundreds of these events in question, it finally clicked in my head how often this occurs. The "raging snowfall" or "rainstorm" and what not, that just so happens to follow a dissapearence, halting all searches, covering tracks, obscuring any evidence, etc. No sir. Not buying it anymore.

It's just TOO much of a convenience. Almost as if whatever mysterious being responsible for the deception, has the power to 'WILL' the conditions of the wheather itself, in order to cover their tracks and introduce doubt for all involved. Ya know, like the STORY-TELLER!

Example: The story that made this 'click' for me, was the one with the three mountain climbers on a 13,000 ft mountain. After a certain ways up, one of them instantiously vanished without warning. They climb down and alert authorties but the search couldn't begin for a while because of "harsh wheather conditions" at the time. Oh really? If things were THAT bad, why were they out climbing a mountain to begin with?!

^ ^ Pure muthfu**ing FICTION.

Sorry guys, my BS meter has just been tripped one time TOO many, to take stories with this particular detail seriously anymore. As soon as i hear the search couldn't begin for a bit due to the wheather, i'm checked out.

I really think I'd enjoy seeing these stories as episodes. Are they available anywhere ?

Wengen and the canyon in which Lauterbrunnen is located, as seen in summer. Photo: Martin Buchbauer.

Myles Robinson goes missing

Avid skier Myles Robinson arrived in the Swiss alpine town of Wengen on December 20, 2009, with his family to spend Christmas. They were very familiar with the area, having visited many times over the years. On the night Myles went missing, he had been out drinking in Wengen with his sister and some friends.

CCTV footage showed him leaving the Blue Monkey bar at 2:19 AM with a female friend. He escorted her to her apartment building, and they sat and talked on a park bench for about twenty to twenty-five minutes before she went inside. A call was made from Myles' phone to a friend at 3:26 AM, but it did not connect.

Later that morning, Myles Robinson's family realized he was missing. Since Wengen does not have a police force, authorities from the nearby town of Lauterbrunnen were contacted, and a search was launched. Fearing that their son might have been kidnapped, the Robinson family organized their own private search parties. About a week later, one of these search parties discovered Myles' deceased body at the bottom of a cliff.

The Missing 411 aspects

In a CANAM video released on January 25, 2023, Missing 411 scientist David Paulides presents the Myles Robinson case. Paulides explains that, although Myles went missing in Wengen, his body was found a week later in plain sight near a 330-foot cliff outside Lauterbrunnen. It is important to note that travel between these two villages is only possible via the Wengernalpbahn (the Wengernalp Railway), as there are no roads.

In the video, David Paulides briefly displays a blurry map that lacks useful details such as topography and distances. He shows the locations of Wengen and Lauterbrunnen and then points to a section of the map southwest of Lauterbrunnen, stating, "...and there are cliffs along the side of Lauterbrunnen," implying that this is where Myles Robinson's body was found.

David Paulides mentions that cliffs are located in this area southwest of Lauterbrunnen.

David Paulides then explains to his viewers why it makes little sense for Myles Robinson to have been found outside Lauterbrunnen. Paulides states:

"The cog train that runs between these two cities that takes people back and forth stops running at midnight. He was last seen at 2:50 AM, the train was not running and it is a five-hour hike through the mountains to get there. That is pretty weird, huh?"

David Paulides mentions a five-hour hike between Wengen and Lauterbrunnen. Above is a Google Maps route suggesting a hike of five hours and eight minutes.

But the Missing 411 weirdness does not stop there. Later in the video, David Paulides notes that Myles Robinson was missing his shoes and socks before concluding that the young man from England had been dropped from the sky. Paulides states:

"Guess what? He had no shoes. He had no socks on when they found him. Wake up, people! I've said this for the last 10 years. This is important. So, Myles was dropped where he fell. And in December, in Switzerland, at 2 A.M., it’s really cold. Myles is not going to walk around in bare feet. Now, the police and the professional searchers scoured the area around where his body was found for hours—that's how they found the phone and other things. But they never found the shoes or the socks. So, he was an athlete, he was highly educated, smart, in a ski area town, and they can’t explain how the body got there."

What really happened

The Mönchblick viewpoint

In the CANAM video, David Paulides says:

"At 3:26, a little more than 30 minutes after he's last seen, that phone gets dropped hard, way down in Lauterbrunnen, five hours away by foot. The cog train wasn't working. How did it get there? How did he get there?"

So, how did Myles Robinson end up at the bottom of a cliff southwest of Lauterbrunnen in the middle of the night? Did he take the Wengernalpbahn? Did he walk barefoot through the Swiss Alps? The answer is, he did not.

A review of original sources quickly and unequivocally confirms that the Missing 411 account largely consists of fabrications invented by David Paulides. As previously mentioned, Myles Robinson was last seen outside his female friend’s apartment building (just a stone's throw from the Blue Monkey bar). During the search for Myles, Swiss authorities used a canine that successfully picked up his scent—a relevant detail not mentioned by Paulides. The Times (January 3, 2010) reports:

"Rather than head through the village back towards the Eiger, it scurried down a narrow tarmac path that leads to the Moenchsblick viewpoint, a 20-minute walk away. It is a pleasant mile-long walk through woods and fields, passing the odd chalet and hotel, but not one that would be an obvious choice in the middle of the night. /.../ A short distance away from the benches at the viewpoint, the snow-clad ground slopes at 45 degrees through fir trees for some 20 yards before a sheer drop down a 330ft cliff to the valley below. Here the scent trail went dead."

According to Google Maps, the distance between the Blue Monkey bar and the Mönchblick viewpoint is approximately 0.8 miles, which takes about seventeen minutes to walk. From Mönchblick, you can see the valley below, where the town of Lauterbrunnen and several other smaller villages are situated.

The distance between the Blue Monkey bar and the Mönchblick viewpoint is 0.8 miles. The village of Lauterbrunnen is visible in the top right corner.

Myles Robinson was found on December 28, 2009, by a private search group. The Chronicle (December 30, 2009) states:

"He had plunged into an icy ravine from a cliffside path in the Swiss resort of Wengen and his BlackBerry phone was retrieved hours later on the 'incredibly hazardous' track. Police are now attempting to power up the device to see what calls, texts and emails Myles made or took before the tragedy.

One theory was he stumbled off the cliff while texting. A police spokeswoman, said: 'The body was discovered below the lookout point at Mönchsblick. It’s a very dangerous path in winter. It would seem he fell and suffered fatal injuries. The autopsy showed no indication anyone else was involved. Investigations are continuing.'"

The cliff, with Wengen and Lauterbrunnen visible in the background.

The cliff from another angle.

The twenty-three-year-old died on impact (The Daily Mail - March 24, 2011), he never made it to Lauterbrunnen. Thus, the "mystery" of how he could have reached the valley town in thirty minutes in the middle of the night can be added to the long list of well-documented Missing 411 failures.

Area not previously searched

Myles Robinson was not found in plain sight, as claimed in the CANAM video. Swiss authorities did not search the woodlands below the Mönchblick viewpoint because the area was deemed too hazardous due to the risk of falling boulders and snow (The Times - January 3, 2010). The Standard (April 13, 2012) states:

"Police launched a search and rescue operation when he was reported missing, using helicopters with heat-seeking equipment. A police bloodhound followed his scent to the Moenchsblick viewpoint, which overlooks a sheer drop to a valley. Police said they did not search the base of the cliff for safety reasons and the body was found later by one of the family's search parties.

Miss Robinson said questions over the police handling of the case were allayed after speaking to officers. She said: 'It is an extremely treacherous route because it was thawing; understandably the police needed to protect themselves and they didn't want to tell us, in case any of our friends and volunteers went to look. They didn't want to end up with another 10 people dead.'"

The village of Lauterbrunnen and its steep canyon walls. Photo: Robin Ulrich.

Alcohol and para-Methoxyamphetamine

It is not known why Myles Robinson decided to walk to the Mönchblick viewpoint that starry night, but the Swiss medical examination revealed that he had been drinking. Trace amounts of a designer drug known as Dr. Death (para-Methoxyamphetamine) were also found in his system (The Daily Mail - March 24, 2011). The Daily Mail describes this drug as "a mind-altering substance," and Coroner Dr. Paul Knapman notes that there is a possibility Myles’ drinks may have been spiked.

Missing shoes and socks

Missing socks and shoes have long baffled Missing 411 scientists and enthusiasts. In the CANAM video, David Paulides claims that Myles Robinson's shoes and socks were not found. However, this claim is inaccurate. The Telegraph (December 31, 2009) reports:

"Police spokeswoman Rose-Marie Comte said: 'Mr Robinson was heavily under the influence of alcohol. He was in very steep, rugged terrain. It is very, very dangerous and it was icy. He fell 100 metres off a cliff and died from his injuries. He had lost his shoes and one sock in the fall. One shoe and the sock have since been recovered but the weather is too bad to conduct a further search at present.'"

Discussion

How baffling do you find the Myles Robinson case?

Just watching some 411 stuff. Had the idea that if everyone had an airbag, would they be able to be located?

Every now and again a missing 411 will come up that is just far in a way weirder than the majority of ones that come over the channel. Something that just blows most of the other encounters out of the water. Where there isn't the slightest I cling it a logical explanation for what happened. Whats your favorite?

In the second Missing 411 book, titled "Eastern United States," readers are introduced to the case of a man who vanished from his LaGrange farm under puzzling circumstances.

On page 31, David Paulides describes Ralph Stutzman as "a hard-working father and farmer" who was last seen after telling his thirteen children he needed to chase down some cows "that had somehow gotten loose." According to the Missing 411 account, which does not cite any sources, a massive search effort was launched. However, despite this extensive search, no trace of the man was ever found, leaving law enforcement officials baffled. Paulides then suggests that there may be a pattern of farmers going missing while searching for their livestock

https://preview.redd.it/stsi6m5jz8md1.jpg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d5b22290a1c3ba81a2d893733c6e8fd58539423b

On page 27, researcher David Paulides prefaces his section on missing farmers by stating: "There was no place to hide, no place to escape—this was home. The evidence from these cases indicates one thing: the victims were coerced into leaving their farms or were abducted from their land. No other explanation fits." Remarkably, recent findings have now shed new light on the Ralph Stutzman case.

According to an article in the WNDU (June 17, 2023), Ralph Stutzman had moved to Florida, changed his name to Delbert Schrock, and fathered another six children. He eventually passed away in 1968. The case was solved last year thanks to the efforts of Ralph Stutzman's grandchildren, the LaGrange County Sheriff's Office, and modern DNA testing.

How the Missing 411 abductor managed to compel the Hoosier State farmer to leave his old family behind, change his name, and raise a new family in another state remains a mystery.

I don’t want to be that guy. And to start off I don’t want to deny or be insensitive to Garrett’s father. But is it weird to anybody else that Kevin Bardsley’s alabi wasn’t looked more into after the mysterious disappearance of his son? In the Garrett Bardsley case, the only thing we really have to go off of is what Kevin Bardsley says happened. Was there any investigation or measures taken to prove that what Kevin was saying was true or any evidence found to suggest a lack of motive in killing his son. When first hearing this case, I immediately thought of the father. To me it makes some sense. Is it completely out of the realm of possibility to say that Kevin murdered Garret, perhaps by drowning him, and that the body and fishing pole lies at the bottom of the lake? Everything I’ve seen about this case doesn’t mention that possibly but it also doesn’t give any reason as to why that couldn’t be true. Could someone more knowledgeable in this case please tell me if this idea was ever looked into by authorities.

We seem to have a few people here who are able and willing to do deep dives on cases presented by David Paulides. Over the last several years, between u/theoldunknown, u/solmote, myself, and others, we have hit most of the big cases. But what small cases would you like to see evaluated for accuracy or presented with accurately sourced, cited links? Alternately, which cases do you feel Paulides has represented with no mistakes and you'd like to discuss?

Is this how many people have gone missing?

A family friend that I watched grow up went missing several years ago. He happened to grow up in a heavily forested area in the PNW and was an expert outdoorsman. One day he went hunting and never returned. Five days later they found his truck in a very remote area with the door opened. The keys were in the vehicle as well as his insulin kit. They found him with his hunting gun. He must have jumped out of the vehicle to track a deer and traveled too far away from the vehicle. It was determined he died because he could not find his way back to his vehicle and went into diabetic shock. His phone was dead but showed his phone was fully charged at the time he succumbed to his lifelong disease. Just so tragic! Never go on adventures alone 😔

Hey folks I am a musician and during a bus ride to New York we made a border stop in Buffalo. The waiting room was filled with these missing person posters and at 3am and being a true crime nut I read them all. One particular poster about a missing girl stuck with me, so I wrote a song about it. I hope you guys enjoy the story telling (crime podcasts inspired me a lot here). Would love to hear your thoughts on it. https://open.spotify.com/track/4ByDBSSODyW9ZTHRBVHl2T?si=-koKjYVSQdaGYD5656MTXg

It seems it's only one person at a time who vanishes never a group of people?

I feel like I've watched, listened to, or read every unexplained disappearance. That's highly dramatic, but I want new stories.

Some of mine are:

Bryce Laspisa Maura Murry Jodi Husentruit The entire Missing 411 series The Podcast Up and Vanished

What are the ones that stand out to you? Please share your favorite source too.

As someone who has been doing foraging/berry picking/mushroom hunting basically my whole life, I wanted to give some information to the city folk here who might be finding some disappearances more mysterious than they may merit. I call this the "ooh look at that over there" phenomenon, and I honestly think it accounts for a lot of cases wherein someone was out in the woods for any sort of foraging purposes.

When you're looking for berries for example, if you see a berry bush 3 feet off the trail, you will certainly walk off the trail a bit to pick from that bush. From where you're standing at that bush, you might see another bush maybe 6 or so feet further from the trail. You surely will be able to remember how to get back from the trail, except you see another bush. Rinse and repeat.

This has taken me probably 100 feet off trail before, and in all honesty it might be sheer luck that's brought me to posting on this sub, rather than being a missing individual discussed. My point here is that most people don't plan to get so far off trail they cannot reorient themselves, but it is very possible to do so in little increments, and suddenly realise you are lost.

This doesn't explain all missing 411 cases, but I think some of them that boil down to "but they would know not to/wouldn't want to go off the trail" can be pretty well dismissed.

First of all, I need to explain that once, I was very interested in the Missing 411 cases. I read just about everything I could find regarding strange disappearances. However, as I got older, I began to lose interest in the subject. There was never any clear breakthroughs to explain where these people went. Additionally, the theories that were put forth were pretty unbelievable. Lately, I have started to get some of my old interest back. With that in mind, I want to ask…what in your opinions are the most popular (likely) theories that are currently being put forth on where these people are going to?. UFOs, Bigfoot, feral humans (my current favorite), time ripples/ wormholes, serial killers or nothing at all, just bad luck on the part of lone hikers. I am asking on this forum because if you are reading this, you must have an interest and chances are, this group knows about current Missing 411 thinking than the average person.

I have read all the original series: here are some of my picks: (so many other perplexing cases)

Carl Landers - Hiking Mount Shasta Dr. Maurice Dametz - gem hunting in CO Stacy Arras - Solo hike in the sierras Samuel Boehlke - Ran behind boulder at Crater Lake Thomas Messick - NY hunter vanished Bart Schleyer - hunting in Northern Canada Michael LeMaitre - Missing during AK marathon Honorable mention: all sobering coincidence cases

In a CANAM video published on May 5, DP discusses the case of California hunter John Odom, who went missing almost fifty years ago. As it turns out, his disappearance is connected to granite.

A raging winter storm battered the Sierras when John Odom went missing.

John Odom goes missing

Palo Alto deer hunter John Odom, aged fifty-three, went missing on October 27, 1974. Odom was hunting in the rugged Mokelumne Wilderness area of the Sierra Nevada when a severe snowstorm hit, and temperatures plummeted below freezing. When the hunter failed to return to his camp, an extensive search was launched.

The search was hampered by the grim and stormy weather and ultimately proved unsuccessful. The following year, in September 1975, two hunters accidentally discovered the remains of John Odom in the Bull Run Lake area, approximately six miles from Odom's 1974 Bear Valley camp. The remains were found on a hillside, along with personal effects.

DP delves into the mysterious intricacies surrounding the location of John Odom's remains

"I don't care if there's a foot of snow... He's going to remember the highway's there, and what do you do when you find a highway? You stay in the highway because that's how you find your way back, but no... they're claiming he kept walking into oblivion, passed out on a hillside partially up the hill and died. Does this sound familiar to you? I think it should."

In the CANAM video, John Odom is described by DP as 'not an idiot'. So, why did Odom not walk to a nearby highway? An article published in the Sacramento Bee (September 29, 1975) gives us a clear answer. It states:

"Odom was climbing a hillside incline when he apparently slipped and fell, hitting his head on a granite rock, said [Sgt. Don] Light. Odom's skull was found wedged between a rock and a tree stump."

John Odom did not merely pass out on a hillside, as portrayed by Missing 411 experts. A fall wedged his head between a granite rock and a tree stump. Did Alpine County investigators think that Odom walked 'into oblivion'? No, of course not. They reasoned that the hunter was tracking a deer (which is quite common for deer hunters to do) or became disoriented in the snowstorm. The article continues:

"The body was found in the opposite direction of the area that Odom had told his hunting companions he was headed, said Light, who speculated that Odom got turned around while tracking a deer or became lost during a severe Sierra snowstorm at that time."

The Sacramento Bee - September 29, 1975

Unfortunately for devoted Missing 411 fans, the fact that John Odom's head was wedged between a granite rock and a tree stump after a fall is not mentioned in the CANAM video. Ever since the inception of Missing 411 almost fifteen years ago, DP has promoted the idea that granite somehow plays a role in some of these disappearances. In the Odom case, there is definitely a granite connection.

Instead of relaying what actually happened to this unfortunate hunter, DP taps on the Missing 411 - The UFO Connection poster behind him when concluding the case.