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One thing that seems to be a lynch pin is BA telling MM that he was going to call LE despite MM saying she had called AAA. If we are assuming MM had been drinking while driving MM now is motivated to leave the scene and avoid the consequences.

Assume for this post that you are not a bad actor.

Assume you live in any of the houses nearby and MM knocked on your door, what would you do?

Assume you are approaching the WBC and see a young woman walking in the road and she DOESN'T flag you, you have not yet passed the Saturn, what would you do?

Assume you are approaching the WBC and see a young woman walking in the road and she DOES flag you, you have not yet passed the Saturn, what would you do?

Assume that you let MM in your vehicle and then you do come upon the Saturn, what would you do?

I am convinced Maura was meeting someone. It was the early days of Internet (Facebook was created the day she went missing). She could have been communicating with someone through personal ads or an early Internet chat room or some other type of electronic contact that would not be thought of to track at the time.

Furthermore , I think she was pregnant by someone her was not her boyfriend.

So I did some checking and using a website listed below, I calculated how many households were within 1.5 KM (that about one mile) of the crash site. I figured that MM could easily travel 1.5 KM--a good runner can finish a 5k in 25 minutes--so with road conditions and running in an unknown area, I believe she could have travelled 1.5 kilometers within half an hour.

The website reports that 629 people live in the 3 km circle centered around the crash site. The information I found was from 2015--so of course there could have been fewer in 2004. In New Hampshire, the average number of people in each household is around 2.4, but let's be conservative and say 2.5. That gives us a total of 250 households in the 1 mile radius.

Of the 250 households, can we say that at least 33% of the households had someone go out to the back yard? That is around 85 households.

So the searchers say they identified every track according is what I understand. Does that mean they visited each of the 85 households asking about tracks? I just want to understand how they eliminated tracks from people's backyards. And I think that 85 is a conservative number--I think there is a chance she ran much further than 1 mile. And yes, some of the households listed are not directly on a road accessible to MM--that's why I used a conservative number as a guide to the number of households.

One final note--looking at maps and satellite views of this area, I see that trees overhang much of the roadway. In some areas, overhanging branches cover the roadway entirely. Is it possible that MM left the road via a driveway and went in the woods from there?

Here is the website that provided population information:

https://www.freemaptools.com/find-population.htm

After someone in this group recommended the Media Pressure podcast, I decided to give it a listen. I’m not quite finished with the series yet—I’m about halfway through—but I have to say it’s already given me a much clearer picture of Maura’s life, her family dynamics, and the struggles she faced. Hearing directly from her loved ones—friends, family, and others close to her—has really added depth to her story.

Some of the details differ from what I’ve read online over the years, but the podcast paints a more complex and nuanced picture. One aspect that has always stood out to me is the idea that Maura may have been overwhelmed by family expectations, particularly from her father. It’s been suggested that she felt crushed under the pressure to perform and that this might have contributed to her disappearance.

However, after listening to these interviews, I don’t think that’s the whole story. Sure, her father might have pushed her hard, but that doesn’t automatically mean it was harmful. I see a lot of parallels with my own upbringing—parents who push their kids often do so because they want them to succeed, especially when opportunities are limited. From the outside, it can seem intense, but it’s often driven by love and hope.

That said, based on the challenges Maura was facing, it seems more likely to me that she was struggling with mental health issues. Of course, I’m not a psychologist, so I can’t say for sure. And to be clear, I’m not suggesting she took her own life—I really don’t know what happened to her. But the interviews have given me a fresh perspective on her story and made me realize how complicated her situation truly was.

For anyone who hasn’t listened yet, I’d definitely recommend the podcast. It’s heavy but incredibly insightful, and it challenges a lot of assumptions I had about Maura’s life and disappearance. Her story deserves this kind of deep exploration.

I just watched the documentary “Disappearance of Maura Murray” on HULU last night. Wow I have never heard of this story but live within 1 hr of the crash site. The psychic mentioned how 3 people were involved 2 being brothers. The documentary goes over several theories one being that 3 boys/men are rumored to have maybe picked her up that night and then never showed up for work the next day. If this is a rumor around town obviously the 3 men could be identified and track down potentially as they were employed at the ski mountain. Another rumor is she was killed at a A-Frame house not far from the site and two bothers lived there together one of the bothers gave Maura’s dad the knife so he could have it tested as he thought his bother committed the crime which the police did eventually take to test supposedly. My question is all of the above seems connected: the 3 men two being brothers, maybe the A Frame house was involved etc. I’m really curious and we won’t know because much of the evidence is private if this was ever looked into it seems like the most probable thing I heard in the whole documentary. Has anyone else seen the documentary and what are your thoughts?

If so, I'd love to hear your theory as to why.

Julie Murray says they called Maura after she went missing and her cellphone rang and rang and rang.

That means she made it to an area with reception (or at least her phone did) otherwise it wouldn't ring at all.

Source:

https://youtu.be/aO6XWyXxMiw?t=3603

@ 1:00:06

EDIT: Crazy how no one talks about such an important piece of info. I always assumed the calls went straight to voicemail since there was no signal.

Hi from England, just wondering if there is any videos of the woods Maura crashed near? Trying to get an idea of how dense it is.

Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm currently listening to an unrelated crime podcast regarding the dark web. Wondering if there's ever been any information searches on there relating to Maura? I'm not particularly web savvy so I don't know if you'd even find anything. Just a thought!

I have a question about how far Maura originally walked away from her car and where the dogs lost her scent. It seems like she walked about a hundred yards, and the dogs lost her scent in the middle of the street. Which indicates she got into a vehicle.

However what if she realized she was walking towards Butch Atwood's house (she sees the parked bus) and decided to turn around so she won't have to interact with him again?

Would the dogs know to follow her back in the direction of her car, or would they think the scent had just stopped? If she turned around, any place in the other direction could be where she went.

I always see this comment on this sub or when Maura is brought up in any true crime sub.

I listen to true crime podcasts almost everyday and I have heard of so many cases where remains have been found in an area already searched multiple times or a bone is found 20+ years later. It’s so easy to miss something. If remains are scattered by animals and then covered by the forest floor over time they will likely never be found. A lot of private land owners refused to let them search their land. If she found somewhere as a shelter that could also be covered up now due to the forest growing.

I think one of the most famous cases is Brandon Lawson who was found in the area he went missing which was searched many times. He was found in a pretty open area. Imagine how much harder it would be to find a body in dense woodland?

A less known case is Janet Castrejon. Her remains were found where she went missing. A place that was searched many times.

Then we have all of the hikers who have gone missing and never been found. Who have died of exposure or an accident. Despite so many searches they still haven’t been found.

I genuinely don’t have a theory I strongly believe in. I think died of exposure, suicide of foul play are all equally possible. I don’t believe she started a new life.

What I’m saying is I don’t think we can rule out died of exposure because she hasn’t been found.

I’m listening to season 3 of Guilt - Finding Heidi (great podcast highly recommend, especially season 3) spoiler ahead… and someone found Heidi’s pink jacket and other items in an area already searched simply by taking a different track into the bush.

Edit - Wow people who think she never entered the woods are absolutely convinced they are right. We literally don’t know what happened to Maura. She COULD be in the woods.

Tracks in the snow - it depends where she entered the woods. If she entered from a private properly that was shovelled then there wouldn’t be any tracks and it is entirely possible they missed something. It all depends where she entered.

The dogs. They were used 36 hours later. After 24 hours it’s much harder for them. The weather was also a huge factor. It was literally the worst type of weather for scent dogs.

I personally don’t believe the dogs picked up anything. IF they did it could have been from anyone who handled the gloves, any of the cops and the dog was simply following their scent. It ended because they had left in their car and the dogs stopped where the cops car was parked.

I hate when people give their opinion or theory as fact. We do not know.

https://www.sullivanfuneralhomes.com/obituary/frederick-murray?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1wW07atUgA-wTscFYJOrZMdiun89jsXbp7GpzaYtjYKIk73IuH0GxAuXQ_aem_9fr1ZpXdHgmuDqHWDqr-0Q

Was Maura heading to NH to buy a car? Remember there is no sales tax in NH. One might think that she was on the hunt for a used car , the money that Fred had is still unaccounted for.

Which direction did the police officer arrive at Maura,s car? if no cars past him enroute to the scene then she did,nt go/got driven that way.

I do have a problem with the bus drivers story he said that he left her went home made a phone call must have been a landline as there was no mobile service, however he also said he sat in his bus and did paperwork, you can,t do both.

Also did the tracker dogs sniff in his bus? just to make sure she spoke to him from outside

I am fairly new to this case but have been deep diving into the case files, interviews, podcasts and documentaries, When i first started looking at the case I found it difficult to locate some of the places that were being mentioned so I decided to make this basic map with places of interest. I hope it can be useful to others to understand the area.

https://preview.redd.it/yz7ogxnhi22e1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=1edb8f5bad1f71420abc7098bd21271bd1ba42d1

I feel this case is relatively simple in that there are only a few possibilities. Either Maura encountered someone and became a victim of foul play, she encountered someone and is alive being held captive, she succumbed to the elements, she committed suicide, or she used this as an opportunity to disappear and start over. I listed these in broad strokes, and I included some unlikely possibilities just for the sake of completeness. But anytime someone comments about this case, they invariably bring up seemingly countless individuals who feel only tangently (if at all) related to the case. I won't list them here because they are so numerous, but literally all of them just seem like background noise.

I’m positing because I recently did a deep dive into the case with a friend who was unfamiliar with it. It was my second time doing a deep dive on the case and this time around, it really didn't seem that any of the people who get talked about genuinely possess any information that would lead to solving the case. But then again, what I call a deep dive is in some cases barely scratching the surface as many of you on this board have an encyclopedic knowledge of the case. With that indicated, I wanted to somewhat filter out some of the background noise for myself with a question to the community: If you had the chance to ask any of the figures associated with this case one question that they would be obligated to tell the truth about, what would that question be and who would you ask it to?

Whose barn was that on the left..That would be a Place to hide temporarily if unlocked.?

I was watching a Podcast that went over the Accident Spot..They said there was a call from Butchs House at 7;oo Prior to the other 911 calls..It was an accident occurred across from Atwood house.Is this true?

Hi all. I've lived in NH my whole life and this case mystifies me, as it does you. I'm pretty familiar with the White Mountains, in all seasons. It's hard for me to believe that she managed to escape deep into the woods, considering how hard it is to move through deep snow and brush. Regardless, what really mystifies me about this case is the response to her crash. I'm not implying that the police did anything nefarious or fishy, but I do think the way they handled everything that night is just weird to me. So, I'm hoping there's someone on here in law enforcement or who maybe just knows about this. My question is, what is the proper protocol for a officer responding to a single vehicle crash with one passenger, and finding that the passenger is gone? Did they really just shrug and say okay she ditched the car and tow it away? Was there an assumption that someone must have picked her up? Even so, is it normal to just tow the car away without taking any photos or evidence or anything like that? I would imagine if they were concerned she took off on foot they might do a perfunctory search around the area, right away, but I don't think that happened. If anyone has a link to the police department detailing their actions that night, please send it my way! I'd love to hear what you guys think about this.

There are several things Id like to start with,

1. I am positive and aware that any searches done using this method are being done privately and most likely by a government agency.
2. There is quite a lot of/mostly private land surrounding the area.
3. I don't believe there are any cases of lidar information leading to a search warrant being issued. However these kind of play into each other and go no where. ( need the lidar info to get the search warrant, need the search warrant to get the lidar info. )
4. I'm of course unaware of wind directions and speeds the night of.
5. I'm not married to any theory and just playing the advocate for a potential pathway to finding Maura.

With that being said, I'm taking into account a lot variables that lead to Maura ending up in the woods somewhere. With intoxication, weather, panic and any thing else added to the mix she could've ended up somewhere trying to get as low as possible to escape wind blowing from a West or South Western direction.

( Potentially putting her in a "valley" on the East or North Eastern side of a incline. )

With the unknown factors of the wind directions and speeds the nights of, all compass directions could be interchanged to fit.

Id like to think that with a drone that could potentially pick up "hot spots" for staying out of direct wind impact, it might help lead to Maura.

All I can hope is that this option is not needed or has been exhausted.

There are several factors that lead me to believe that Maura faced a lot of internal struggles that ultimately led her to a breakdown after the car crash and her subsequent disappearance towards the woods. In this post, I will present my own theory on what went through Maura's mind in the last couple of months before her disappearance. First, I will list down some of the known events that we know have occurred.

A) Maura was very upset after hearing from her sister Kathleen after her release from rehab, her fiancé drove her directly to a liquor store.

B) Maura fabricated the news of the passing of a relative in her family.

C) Maura faced disciplinary action at UMass Amherst after being caught using a stolen credit card number to order food.

D) Maura was involved in a car accident on February 7, 2004, two days before her disappearance.

E) Maura packed items such as textbooks, toiletries, and personal items and left her dorm room in an orderly state.

F) Before leaving UMass, she stopped at a liquor store and bought a variety of alcoholic drinks, despite being the only "known" person who will use them.

G) Maura withdrew nearly $280 from her bank account before she left and disabled her voicemail

Who was Maura

1. Maura was someone who, from all accounts and interviews done since 2004, lived with spirit and drive for being around her family. This is especially true when it comes to her relationship with her father, her sisters Kathleen (passed away in 2021), and Julie.

2. She was also a gifted athlete and an achieving high school student.

What does this tell us? This means that since Maura is someone who placed a lot of effort and time to achieve her status, then she may have been exposed to a lot of pressure and being overwhelmed. Her activities and grades in school imply she wasn't like tyyical high school students who just want to graduate and move on, she was always under the feeling of pressure and subject to "burnouts", which implies that in her career as a student at University of Massachusets, being overwhelmed is not something new to her.

*** Maura and Kathleen***

1. I believe Maura's relationship with her sister Kathleen was more symbolic than anyone thinks. Maura may have seen in her sister what she would fear and foresaw the most about herself: "losing control over one's life"

Maura grew up with Kathleen and she definitely had deep hearted conversations with her sister (not just like an ordinary sister conversation, but also one one where Maura's personality of being kind and emotional would make it special) that would include Kathleen's struggle with addiction. Her distress reaction to the phone call that "left her visibly shaken" in evidence (A) especially to the content of their conversation indicates that Kathleen shared with Maura her daily struggles and her path to recovery in her rehab, and in return Maura would pour in deep empathy but also a projection of her own internal battles into what her sister was going through. The instant internal realization that hit Maura during the phone call when she learned that her sister was being dragged again to the liquor store was that of feeling of "helplessness" and "powerlessness" not just towards her sister, but towards herself as well. This just shows that all this time, Maura had a thin line between being in control and lising control.

2. Why is it symbolic? Well because Maura had her own unresolved issues, including academic setbacks and burnouts,, relationship strains, and other personal challenges that we may have not learned about yet (like not being able to have close friends outside her family) but also felt increasingly insurmountable. Kathleen’s own path to recovery in her rehab might have reminded Maura of her own struggles to “keep it all together” and of the thin line between staying in control, but then going back square 1 all of a sudden and "losing all hope".

*** Maura's first impulsive move ***

1. Months before her disappearance, Maura was caught using a stolen credit card to purchase a large amount of food (C). I believe the decision she made was not in her full control and might have been an internal against the pressure she was feeling in her life. People in high-stress situations sometimes act in ways that don’t align with their usual behavior or values, and this could have been an instance of that. She may have been aware of the gravity of the situation or consequences, but she couldn't "feel or regret her actions" due to what she was going through.

2. However, it would definitely struck her later that what she did was not just wrong, but also a sign that her behavior are starting to spiral out of control in response to mounting pressure she was experiencing inside herself. The sense of guilt and powerlessness over her behavior definitely got embedded in her memory from that incident until her disappearance, because it's something "the true Maura that we all know wouldn't have done" eventhough theft (in the case of Maura) was a relatively minor thing that happened.

*** Maura's first car crash ***

Maura's first car crash occurred on February 7, two days before her disappearance (D). She was obviously upset about it despite her father informing her that the insurance would cover. Now, there's nothing special about her being upset because we all feel a sense of "guilt" when we crash our parent's car. However, the crash was another external burden that was added to her other internal struggles and made her feel that she was at the lowest point in her life, but the fact that she didn't run away like she did 2 days later meant that she was was capable of understanding what happened and the consequences with regards to her family's reaction and the economic damage that she thought would happen to fix the car. At that point, everything was overwhelming, which led her to plan for a gateaway in Vermont

*** Maura's final day ***

1. On February 9, we know that she sent an email to the university (note that February was still the beginning of the spring semester) that she had to take the day off due to the passing of her relative (B). Maura may have done so out of priority and simplicity in avoiding drawing attention to her emotional or mental state and having to talk about them. This is why she didn'tvisit the counseling center, explain her struggles, and request for a medical leave to focus on her mental health. By sending emails, she could communicate her absence in a way that was impersonal and didn’t require her to verbally confront anyone about her struggles. She just didn't want to talk about all that bothered her with anyone, maybe because she was overwhelmed by the idea of confronting her emotions directly. This makes sense as seeking help through a professional service offered by the university meant that other people who are foreign to her will be involved in her life, in her therapy. Instead, she felt that she wanted to maintain control over her situation, which was, at that point, highly unstable.

2. Next, Maura packed her stuff from her dorm room (E). From the evidence of what was taken vs. what was left, we can infer that she planned for a temporary escape. Logically, everything that reminds her of what's overwhelming her remained in that room (textbooks, laptops, etc.). Despite that, Maura was in a moment of mental crisis, and the very act of packing her stuff meant that she was not able to foresee when she will return back to college.

3. Maura withdrew all her money (G) and bought alcohol (F) hours before the disappearance. It seems that by withdrawing all her money ($280), she didn't want to sustain herself over time but instead about taking immediate steps to enable a quick departure. This is the second proof that Maura didn't know when she'll be back and is consistent with someone in crisis. As for the purchase of alcohol, it was a coping mechanism for her stress. At this point, the choices she was making for purchasing alcohol may have been emotionally driven as she was trying to feel numb.

*** Maura's second car crash and her second impulsive move ***

1. On the evening of February 9, 2004, Maura’s car went off the road and crashed. The most important thing about this is that she refused help, and she lied about calling AAA. The reason for this is that she was still trying to process what she had gone through in this accident as well as her accumulating problems in her life. She was definitely under the influence of alcohol as well as in a state of emotional paralysis (she didn't want to talk to anyone and was in a crisis mod). There was also a pending fear of consequences for having crashed a second car in two days as well as her plans to escape her hometown, which was not shared with her family, which means that she had to address to her parents what she was planning and why (because she was mentally unstable over the last couple of months) as well as to the cop who was gonna charge her with DUI. She was practically in a state where she wanted to escape not just from her hometown but also from everyone. This car crash was her stressor.

2. Maura, in a state of mental paralysis made the split-second decision to leave everything behind her items and her car and ran towards the woods. Had she taken some means of financial support and some map, she would've gone to any place where she could settle. However, given the state she was in, she just didn't want to be, and she didn't want to be followed. It's what we call as a "fight or flight" response. In Maura's case, it was a "confront, accept responsibility, address your struggles, tell people you are not okay and that you need help" or "escape the situation and hide from everyone". Note that it is not uncommon for individuals to feel that the only way to regain control is to escape their current circumstances entirely.

3. Another thing to note is that eye witnesses saw her in the car shaking (because she was in a panic mode) with what they estimated to be a phone in her hand and that she never made a call. This could be because she was contemplating whether to actually call her parents or to shut everything down and disappear.

4. Maura was in a situation where she couldn't think rationally, and knowing that there were people who were at the scene of the car crash as well as the incoming police patrol meant that she had to hide somewhere not just to escape reality and the car crash, but also to attempt to regain control of her mind and try to think clearly.

5. In sum, the choices she made by running towards the woods weren’t premeditated but rather impulsive, driven by an acute sense of distress and an inability to process everything she was facing. This impulsive departure into the cold without preparation indicates a state of mind where Maura was, at least momentarily, more focused on escaping reality and trying to make sense of not only what happened to her, but also for all her problems that she accumulated. She may have died not far away from the woods, either by her own hand or due to hypothermia.

I would like to conclude this post by saying that I wish Maura would have realized that her struggles and pain would've been heard and that she would have never alone when help is always accesible. She chose not to seek help because it was verwhelming for her to confront her emotions. However, years late today, everyone in the globe has learned about her pain, and that if we were all in 2004 right now, we would've all been there for her.

Has anyone gone to that area, at night and just filmed with their phone and walked around where the crash and bus were and tried to visually see what she would have seen that night? When people theorize she went into the woods, has someone filmed at night in the woods?

What is the likelihood that Maura is a victim of human trafficking ? Could she be alive somewhere in Asia/Canada being held captive in the sex trafficking industry ?

In Episode 8 of DSTV Pod's Engage with Empathy. The father says they have had multiple cadaver dogs hitting on 1 property that the police are seeming to quietly dismiss... Is this the property that the newly poured concrete was found and removed to be searched, or is this new and separate?

Has anyone seen the stuff coming out regarding the doctored email between Ladonna Humphrey and Fred Murray?

It’s coming to light that LaDonna Humphrey (who tried to offer a reward and tip line early on to the Murray’s ) allegedly has been responsible for stalking and harassing various people, including families of missing and murdered victims over the span of the last 30 years. Other journalists and advocates who have covered this case (Tim P, Lance R, James Renner ) keep getting taunting and threatening emails about Maura and so does Maura’s family. Is it possible that this woman who was involved early and has this clear MO/pattern of behavior with countless other people was pulling the strings in the Murray case all along?