We know the Malazan Book of the Fallen we're reading is the tale chronicled by Kaminsod. But what is the 'Malazan Book of the Fallen' written by Fisher (as found in the epigraphs of TCG)? We know Fisher also wrote the poems 'House of Chains' and 'Toll the Hounds', from certain epigraphs in the respective books. Is Fisher's 'Book of the Fallen' just an in-universe collection of poems, or does it also have metafictional significance? I'm interested to know Fisher's role in all of this.

I posted this originally with an unintentionally spoiler-ey title so I’m posting again because it seemed like an interesting discussion. Thanks to u/Loleeeee and u/killisle for their well thought out and in depth answers the first time around!

I’ll try to respond to them in the comments

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I’m on my 4th reread atm. Listening to the audiobooks for the first time (Michael Page’s Grub voice is amazing). I am finishing BH at the moment and just go through the Laseen/Tavore/Kalam/Korbolo/Mallick conversation. It left me with about 200 questions:

If Laseen is planning to have Korbolo and Mallick killed by the new clawmaster why not just have them dealt with immediately? 2)Is it ever actually explained how those two were able to get such power and control over the Empress?

3. If she is planning to kill Korbolo and Mallick why does Tavore need to die?

4. If Laseen is worried that the claw and Mocks Hold are infiltrated and she can’t trust anyone there, why does she not utilize the entire army and the insanely powerful mages who just landed at the docks along with Tayschrenn to kill her enemies and gain control of the city.

5. I’m still confused, if a scapegoat was needed, why Korbolo and Mallick were not the perfect (actually guilty) scapegoats? Also why were they not executed immediately? It seemed as if they had them dead to rights.

6. can someone please explain the plan to betray the Wickans and what it gains her? I know they want the land to settle and grow crops closer to home than 7 cities. Is it really worth destroying the Wickans? Can’t they replant in 7 cities now that it’s back under control and maybe utilize farming on Genabackis rather than such a plan of betrayal for true allies? (Maybe, like Tavore, I’m a bit too naïve about these things)

I know some of this has been discussed before and I think I remember a “Laseen did nothing wrong” or “Mallick did nothing wrong” thread (or was that a fever dream?) so please excuse me/ link me somewhere with the answers if this has been discussed to death. I’ve read all the books multiple times, but it’s possible my brain is just so rotted that I’ve forgotten.

I have 20 more questions about the end of this book but I’ll leave it here for now.

Thanks!

(No spoilers past TCG CH11)

Fiddler and Hedge, anyone else think their story is just heartbreaking? I really hate how I can't blame either one for how they grow apart.

Just got to this part where Hedge realises he loves all the dead bridgeburners but not the one alive one, despite it being his old best friend. And its just. ☹

Anyone else having this issue? I’m like 60 pages in and I think I really need a reading guide lol.

I was thinking of series comparable to Malazan when it comes to the scale of the story and action, and the abundance of the fantasy elements. Even epic fantasy that does not balk at indulging in fantasy elements rarely goes this far. The best examples probably come from the world of gaming, DnD first among all.

The Wheel of Time is often right next to Malazan and other usual suspects in "of all time" epic fantasy lists, and the reasons are obvious: huge world; long series; large battles; lots of fantasy elements, magic, monsters, species, trinkets, etc.; world ending stakes; and so forth. Possibly, when you take this part of the equation into account, WOT is the obvious peer series to Malazan.

But in many respects the two are also widely different. This comparison will be limited by my knowledge of WOT, which only extends up to book 3. Malazan is thoroughly adult, while WOT has a profoundly more YA sensibility; I think Malazan is "darker", although brutal elements are not absent; WOT is very much more of a "classic" fantasy story, with many of the most famous tropes (I realise some of which it created itself), while Malazan is much more innovative; Malazan has some very obvious philosophical interests, while I'm not sure WOT is thematically resonant beyond the "battle of the sexes" aspect.

So I wondered if most people who like Malazan are primarily attracted to its epic, high fantasy character, and are therefore also fans of WOT; or if instead they dislike WOT and series like it, and it is what makes Malazan singular among fantasy series that resonates with them.

Personally, I cannot stand WOT, but not necessarily for these reasons. I am put off by the characters, the way women are written, and some questions about what I would call story structure. But even controlling for that, the YA nature of WOT would still probably put me off.

About a year ago now I stopped reading halfway through Bonehunters. I don't think I remember anything from that book - but I do remember Midnight Tides absolutely destroying my motivation and excitement that I just....stopped.

I LOVE Malazan and I want to get through the series. I'm reading from the start since there's so much to remember but I'm halfway through Gardens of the Moon (3rd time reading it) and don't feel that excitement (granted this was always my least favorite from what I read - well that and Midnight Tides).

So - words of Encouragement? Stories to help push me in gear? No spoilers please!

Currently reading Night of Knives, my first Esslemont book, for more Malazan content. I'm not joking when I say I'm struggling to not fall asleep while reading this book.

I’m new to Malazan so I don’t know if the other books (specifically books 2,4,5,6,7 and 8) have always been in print as TOR trade paperbacks with the OG covers, or if they just got facsimiles last year and MOI didn’t. Why was MOI left out of the reprints? It doesn’t make sense to me.

So I seem to be having a different experience to most with this series. I went apprehensively into Gardens of the Moon due to the multiple warnings that it's a slog and I just needed to get through it. I was advised that it was complex and I wouldn't understand what's going on.

I didnt find this at all. I loved Gardens of the Moon, I seemed to understand most of what was happening and had no issues with the story. I enjoyed every second of it and finished it very quickly as the pages just seemed to turn themselves.

Now however, I am 160 pages into deadhouse gates and I am struggling. I've not connected with it like I did with the first book and I am actually finding this book " a bit of a slog". After Gardens of the Moon I thought "I've got this!" And excitedly went straight into Deadhouse Gates. But now I am starting to experience what most people feel with the first book.

Has anyone else had this issue with Deadhouse Gates or is it just me? Am I missing something?

I'm looking for recommendations on good 'deep give' type content for the Malazan series. For an example of what I mean, I watch/listen to this channel a lot for LotR lore exploration - In Deep Geek

I assume there's some good content out there but stuff I've found so far has been a bit hit and miss. Can people recommend their faves?

Cheers

I’m halfway through House of Chains and I’m not sure I’ve ever wanted a fictional character to die a horrific death more than I do Bidithal.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cFUY1pFrhfA&feature=youtu.be

Ublala: "He IS my best friend, he gave me chicken!" Me: Understandable, absolutely.

apologies if the answers are buried elsewhere: Are there any author-provided insights about what Books 5+6 of "Patch to Ascendancy" will cover?

I know the series has mostly been K's and D's stories, but I would be particularly pleased if we got some Early Bridgeburner, pre-Pale content.

I've said a few time that "Lonesome Dove" is my closet genre-crossing comparison to Malazan, and I'd enjoy some Young Fiddler content in the same way that the prequels to Lonesome Dove elevated the experience even if they were lighter reads.

Well, this sure was an experience. The best character development through a book series I've ever seen. And not only one, that was the most unbelievable to me. Fiddler, Kalam, Pearl, Icarium, Cotillion, Bottle, Trull and Apsalar. All insanely well written, emotional characters.

I'm actually gonna say that Icarium and Cotillion are my favorites, the shit that went down on Drift Avalii may have interested me more than the 14th armies line, but ofc they both were like 11/10 storylines. But maaan this much emotion in just one book is crazy

The best thing about it was that now I actually have an idea of what's going on exactly lol But I didn't really understand the stuff with the Eres'al which was cool regardless.

I can't entirely phrase what I'm feeling now, but Fiddler, you're breaking my heart

Dust of Dreams is going to be my lowest rated Malazan book, and frankly besides the last two chapter which were phenomenal, I’m deeply disappointed by this book. After finish Toll the Hounds I was ecstatic about coming to the end of Malazanbefuade this series has clawed its way up to become one of my favorite series I’ve ever read. Dust of Dreams however has somewhat tarnished my view on Malazan at least temporarily. The major reason for that is because this book is 90% boring with a few great chapters that attempt to make up for how boring it is. Erikson attempts to show off the humanity is evil, that world is cruel and the ultimately we perhaps deserve extinction. He does this in order to set up the ends book, the finale of Malazan as the counter argument. I can appreciate what he’s doing on a thematic level, I can say that intellectually this book is a great examination on misery and hate. But the reason this book fails, in spite of all that it attempts is that Erikson has decided for some unknown reason to me, to introduce a bunch of new characters and plot lines to make his point. That’s right instead of showing that humans are awful using are large cast of characters that we have made a connection to over the last 3 million or so words, he gives us new characters and that are incredibly boring. The few moments of excitements in this book, mostly part 1 and 4 unfortunately do not make up for this. It is with a heavy heart that I say dust of dreams is the worst Malazan book I’ve read, it’s bad enough to go among my least favorite reads of the year. Sorry Malazan fanatics, you just can’t win them all. 7.5/10, it’s only that high because of the ending.

My first more or less finished sketch of how I picture Onos T’oolan.. not as squat and heavy boned as I intended to make him.. next time though

Hey folks! I’m looking to get my first tattoo, and I’ve finally settled on getting the symbol for the Bridgeburners. Can anyone point me to some solid designs they’ve seen of that symbol that I might be able to provide an artist as inspiration?

Thanks very much in advance. I’ll share a picture at some point down the line once I finally pull the trigger. :)

Apologies if this is a FAQ.

After reading Malazan Book of the Fallen twice I’ve always been a bit reluctant to read Esslemonts work simply because I’m worried it wouldn’t feel the same.

I’m so accustomed to Eriksens style and feel that I worry it will dilute the experience for me.

However I’m super interested in learning about the empires origins and would like to dig into PtA.

Do need to have read the previous novels to start here?

asking because I want to do the audiobooks and am curious about if i’ll get confused

Previous post

Heroic sacrifice

“Best begin, Poet,” said Steck Marynd in a hunter’s growl (and don’t they all?).

A wayward ember spun towards Nifty Gum and all three of his Entourage fought to fling themselves heroically into its path, but it went out before it could reach any of them. They settled back, glowering at each other.

Brash strummed the three strings, and began singing in a flat falsetto.

It is Steck Marynd who finally gets the group to settle down and stop bickering. Appropriate, since his entire thing is being a no nonsense kind of guy. His line fits with that characterization as well. In fact I believe this is the first thing he says in the story, unless you include his exquisite grunt.

I find his actual words really interesting though, even if it's only three words. First of all, he manages to get some good alliteration in there. Admittedly it's a fairly common phrase, but still. The capitalization of "Poet" is interesting too. Of course, this is an aspect of the text that I don't think even Flicker would be involved in, since Flicker is (as far as I can tell) telling the story orally. But it conveys a measure of respect to poets in general, if not Brash himself. Of course, there is still an implicit threat in Steck's words (who is presumably still cradling his crossbow). He is still saying "best begin... or else", but I don't think that's all he's saying.

I also love how Flicker plays with syntax of the sentence here, by taking the "hunter's growl" phrase and implicitly rewriting it as the full sentence "Hunters growl". From a descriptor of how he's talking to a declarative statement about hunters in general. All that with just that silly little aside.

We then get a fantastic look at the Entourage, which has up until now not featured much in the story. The juxtaposition between the absolute non-threat of a single floating ember floating towards Nifty has the entire Entourage desperately trying to defend Nifty before the anticlimax of it just going out on it's own. I like the alliteration here with "fought" and "fling", heightening the language just a bit to emphasize their heroism.

I think it's a great depiction of how fans will often try to defend their favorite artist even if there isn't actually any threat. I also love how it's clearly mostly performative. Their first priority is not actually saving Nifty from harm, but rather to be seen saving him. So it becomes a competition between the three of them to see which one can be the savior.

We then get a marked shift in tone with that last line. Since starting the story we haven't really gotten a lot of the alliteration which was damn near omnipresent in the introduction. But here we get a sentence absolutely full of alliteration. "Strum" and "strings" is a very strong one, but we also get "singing" as well as the S in "falsetto". And then we have "flat" and "falsetto". And that's basically every single emphasized syllable in the sentence.

We've been building Brash's poem up a lot, and here we have Flicker subtly heightening his style, almost as if he's leading up to some really epic poem. Of course, this being Flicker, he's also subtly dissing him. I'm specifically looking at the word "flat", which of course can be used in a number of ways, but specifically when used for singing it has a fairly negative connotation. Of course, the surface would be that he's talking about the timbre of Brash's singing. I.e. he's not using a lot of inflection, no vibrato, just a very straight sound. But I think the other meaning has to be intentional as well.

And that's it for the build up. Next time we'll be diving into the poem itself. I'm very excited. See you then!

I am currently doing a reread of Forge of Darkness and just came across the scene where Captain Ivis is walking through the forest near Dracons Hold and encounters a women impaled on spikes in a glade. This encounter stood out to me in my first read through and I have am still trying to figure who the woman is. Are we even suppose to have a clue as she says that "the Tiste have no name for me"?

She also mentions "I am not for you." Did she mean Ivis or the Tiste in general as she mentions she isn't interested in saving him due to being one of the people of the forge?

Edit: Just read on and see that Spite said she sent him into a dream. Did not notice that until this second go around with FoD. Still makes me wonder if that had any significance or was it just Spite messing with his mind.

I’m trying to find a set of the Novels of the Malazan empire that all match and I am having a hell of a time. I found the spreadsheet with all the ISBNs but I’m scared to buy the Bantam paperbacks because there are two sizes, apparently? No matter which direction you go it seems like there is at least one that is exorbitantly over-priced.

I have the TOR mass markets for the Book of the Fallen. I bought them as a set and they all match. As long as the NOTME match within themselves I don’t care if they match the Book of the Fallen. I was going to get the TOR trades for the NOTME but for some reason Orb Sceptor Throne doesn’t have the same design as the others and that’s gonna bother the hell out of me. It’s been nothing but stress. If anyone knows where to a matching set, let me know. I’ll even buy a matching set off someone. Literally any help is appreciated.

I’m doing a mixed read and I’m getting closer and closer to Night of Knives. I only have the last two books of House of Chains and then Midnight Tides before I need it in my hands. I may just have to buy the hardcovers one at a time to insure they all look alike but it’s gonna be so expensive. Please send help. (Or books.)

So I'm about half way through GoTM and I saw this series recommended on tic Tok but man am I struggling to get it. Like there's cool ideas but they don't just throw you in the deep end they hold your head under. Like no gods explained, no past stuff, people just know each other and half of the stuff they talk about seems like I'm 2 books deep into a series. They never explained this "moon" who or what rake is, this brud guy or any of the other races. It feels like I'm just expected to know this like it's common knowledge. I got into this to kill time before Sandersons new book is out next month and if like to like this, like high houses and the wired God stuff with sorry and whiskey jacks company. Do things ever make sense or is it a buckle up and take the ride kinda vibe ?

Last night I got to the part where Benger conjured up Anomander. At first I was excited, because Anomander, but ultimately the chapter did not leave me with a good feeling.

I don’t blame Benger if it was between Anomander and Silanah, however I can’t say I’m not a little bit disappointed with SE for bringing him back. This feeling might pass with some distance, or maybe there’s something yet to come in the novel that will make it seem more justified.

I’m sorry if you’ve all talked about everything tGiNW already, but I was wondering how you felt about this passage?

Please no spoilers beyond this point in the book.

Fiddler’s reading in Letheras.

Really, the whole reading… Why was Tavore left out? Grub is the Scepter? Of what? Banaschar is in league with Crippled God or did I read that wrong?

Most importantly, why does Fid say, “This wasn’t a reading…no one here was found…claimed. They were marked. Do you understand?”

No. No, Fiddler and Adjunct, I do not understand.

And then later, Tavore, in meeting with the Fists before meeting with Tehol, says, “Fiddler’s reading made it plain. That reading was an insult. To all of us.”

Because the gods made claims on the people named (and unnamed, like Knight of Shadow)? And, in addition, they ignored her and her will?

(The table holds…Knight of Shadow, the unborn son? And two others I can’t remember and didn’t highlight.)

I’m going to have to read the whole damn book again when I finish it, aren’t I? Such is the pain of being an avid Malazan fan.

ETA corrected Barathol to Banaschar

With some of the dark shit that has come from Malazan thus far: Pannion Domin, dead seed, Raraku, Chain of Dogs, etc. Even in MT with the looming war between Letherii and Tiste Edure and Rhulad’s death and ascendancy to emperor. Midnight Tides has no business being so funny when Tehol and Bugg dialogue comes up.

I’m on chapter sixteen, little more than halfway through my first read through.