So, I had this idea for a new MMORPG without the usual "good guys" protagonists. Everyone would be basically villains, seeking power. The game would be called "Flesh, Blood and Glory". And it would initially have 4 classes. Demons, Vampires, Werewolves and "Dark Heroes" (or fallen heroes, who pretend to be helping humanity against these other classes just to gain fame and power). Everyone would fight for a tower in the center of the world, which transforms depending on which class takes it. The Vampire Tower would be more "sinister", the Demon Tower more disgusting and horrifying... and so on.

https://preview.redd.it/w9t6l3r9oq4e1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=19d4d5899f52b2c3bea55fd9ef8c0447caffb44a

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https://preview.redd.it/we3nx8p9oq4e1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=f15d71e996675694a63cf918660bbb109eed09f3

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https://preview.redd.it/xhvglvq9oq4e1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=4659e9ae965827b978485fafbb10730a5bf87ceb

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The title may seem obvious, but it's pretty common in this community to rag on WoW, FFXIV, ESO, etc. constantly.

Okay, let me provide some context. I'm the kind of MMO player who will put hundreds of hours into casual content. For me, the most fun things to do in an MMO are questing to explore the world, and fashion hunting. I have done high level end game content in WoW and FFXIV, and I enjoyed it, but it is not my typical experience.

For me, most well known MMOs are really good! World of Warcraft, even divorced from origins, is still an extremely polished experience with a beautiful world that does a great job of making me feel like an adventurer rather than the hero. Plus, now we have classic and after attempting to level a paladin on hardcore, I can honestly say it's a totally different, but still fantastic experience. FFXIV is just as beautiful but with a whole other style and one of the best stories available in gaming despite it's 40ish hour grind to get through base game story to the good stuff. Hell, I picked up Runescape recently(ish, a few months ago) and the dopamine hit from skilling on that game is intense. I could go on about most other modern MMOs, but I think you get the picture.

Even newer games like New World have great qualities (like the best sound design I've ever heard). Can't say I've played Throne and Liberty, though.

Here's another hot take: Playing 1,000 hours in any game is probably going to make you bitter about it. Doesn't matter if it's WoW, ESO, GW2, whatever, doing the same thing over and over for so long is eventually going to get tiresome. Sometimes you just need to take a break and play something else, you know?

MMOs have changed, I'm not denying that, but while the experiences on offer are different, that doesn't mean they aren't any worse in quality. I have started to approach these games (and gaming in general) with the attitude of letting the game tell me what it wants to be good at and then letting myself enjoy how good it is at that thing instead of trying to push my assumptions and wants for a perfect MMO onto every game I play and honestly? It has led to much more positive experiences in just about ever games.

I know this sub has a reputation for bitterness, and honestly I think I've added to that in the past, but I hope by sharing this I can help shift this community to a slightly more positive place.

I have a huge backlog of bought games I haven't played bcuz fomo in mmorpg hits me, I want to get through the story of ffxiv, also I want to play ESO while I haven't even finished Skyrim, I have bought gw2 expacs and haven't played them yet. Would you go through your backlog of games and not play mmorpgs? I enjoy single players alot more but something drags me to play an mmo most of the time while I find them boring and totally not immersive.

Vi el juego por Youtube, me gustó. Quisiera saber el precio que aparece de 24.000 aproximadamente, dice Tax incluided, alguien lo compró para saber si esto es cierto ? Gracias

I've never played WOW before, I've played most of the MMORPGS, big titles and small titles. Never wow. Now, I am looking for a slow paced mmo, something to enjoy the ride. My gaming time is limited so the small amount that I have, should I invest it in wow? Is it worth starting now? Thank you!

Granted WoW took what is good from Everquest and Ultimate Online (maybe also DAoC?), but it made the genre more accessible.

Granted back then mobile phone technology was archaic compared to today, and when thinking of main functions in an MMORPG is that it is an open world RPG with Online features like chatrooms (think public channels, guild channel, group channel etc) which is integrated to doing content with other players in mind like dungeons and raids, even against other player factions (Horde vs Alliance).

I can think outside the box of something successful that is MMO or at least online without even the RPG part, other games took specific features from WoW and focused on it (League of Legends comes to mind, please prove me wrong if so), maybe even social media?

I am thinking of life service games in terms of MMORPG-like progression without the MMO or even the RPG part.

Or we have moved along from having such open, seamless world exploration with online features and such?

for ex, do you prefer to set your goals for reaching a certain lvl, beating a powerful boss, collecting a cool cosmetic, etc.

I don't know what sort of reputation this game has outside of its own community, but it kills me to see it kinda floundering of late. It's still a bit light on content after three years but I love the combat and character creation, and I'd love to see new people give it a chance. It's on Steam, PS4, Xbox...

Warning About Ravendawn & Ravenquest – Proceed with Caution

I wanted to share my concerns regarding Ravendawn & Ravenquest and why I believe potential players should think twice before investing their time or money into this game.

Despite being in development for nearly a year, Ravendawn is riddled with technical issues, including frequent client crashes, login problems, and constant freezes. These aren't minor bugs; they significantly disrupt gameplay and raise serious questions about the development team's priorities.

What’s more concerning is the track record of the game’s creator, Knighter. It appears Ravendawn—the previous project—was completely abandoned to shift focus to Ravenquest. If history is any indication, there's a real possibility that Ravenquest could meet the same fate should another, more profitable venture come along.

The issues don’t stop at the game itself. The Discord community is incredibly toxic, with bans handed out seemingly at random. Worse, if you’re banned, there’s no clear way to appeal or resolve the issue since ticket submissions are unavailable to banned users. This creates an environment where players are silenced rather than heard.

Lastly, Ravenquest has taken an NFT-centric approach, which feels like a cash grab rather than a genuine effort to create a quality MMORPG experience. The similarities to Ravendawn make it seem like the same project has been rebranded to chase the latest trend.

I strongly urge anyone considering this game to do their research and approach with caution. It’s disheartening to see developers prioritize profit over players, and Ravenquest currently shows all the signs of a project that could leave its community disappointed.

The explosion of MMORPGs in the late 2000s and early 2010s had a lot of design influence from The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King and not Vanilla/Classic. Everyone tried to make the WoW killer but, in my opinion, nobody tried to actually emulate what Vanilla did.

Would you play something that tried to do something similar with a huge open world and less-than-streamlined design choices? Or do you think Classic WoW fills the niche already?

When WOW came out it really did revolutionize the MMO genre for better or for worse. It made MMOs more accessible and approachable than they ever have before. And it has shaped how MMOs that came after it have designed their games. However, the truth is no MMO has been able to top WOW when it comes to popularity for any extended period of time.

I believe this is due to games following WOW’s formula too closely while not trying to innovate the genre in any meaningful way. Yes, some other MMOs do things different from WOW. But, either the changes are not very drastic or if there are major changes they are not attracting a wide audience in a way that shakes up the MMO genre.

Even though we have been in a MMO drought for many years now. I really do hope that one day MMOs can enter into a new golden era. And that the genre can innovate to be relevant again. The current MMOs we have only have a few years left them (5-10 years). And either we get new MMOs to replace the current titans in the genre or MMOs as a whole will stagnant.

Hello, I am 5 years old GW2 player. Always wanted try WoW but I did not have money for every expansion and subscription. Now I am adult and have money so finally I can give it a try, BUT... Now I have wife, a little kid, work, home duty, etc. Generally I do not have time as I had when I was younger. I do not want waste my time if there is possibility that WoW will not game for me.

Okay, so what do I want to know from you? I will describe why I enjoy GW2 and why I want give WoW a try. If you could answer me if I can find same in WoW it would be great.

I enjoy GW2 because of:

• best mount system so far;
• nice community;
• big and not empty world, everywhere are people to play with;
• nice world bosses;
• nice world events;
• vizard vault with quests;
• dynamic battles and mechanics;
• a lot of things to collect (cosmetics, toys, achivments, wallets, materials, etc..);
• and the best thing - playing solo is great, I never felt alone. I am not in any guild, dc server, etc. and never had problem with doing world or instance stuff as solo player.

Why I want change gw2? After those 5 years I want this feeling when you craft/loot nice item which have any impact in combat (not only cosmetic). Of course in gw2 are legendarny weapons/armor but unfortunetully it not suits for me.

In the end as I said I am solo player and main question is if wow suits this playstale (I do not like story in mmo by the way).

Thanks for your future answers! :)

Hey everyone,

We’ve been thinking a lot about the current state of MMORPG content online. Search engines are flooded with SEO-driven affiliate marketing, and AI tools often churn out content that’s stolen, and if used to find new content never recommends anything niche. Unfortunately, this makes it nearly impossible to discover unique, indie creators who are making genuinely awesome stuff.

So, we’re making a change.

Self-promotion is now allowed for blogs and written articles, including direct linking.

Why? Because there’s a ton of amazing content out there that deserves a spotlight. For example, someone wrote an entire book about the history of Star Wars Galaxies. That’s the kind of passion and creativity we want to see more of, and we think this rule change could help surface it.

​

This is an experiment, if it doesn’t work out, we’ll adjust the rules again. But for now, we’re excited to see what you all bring to the table.

​

To see if we can help you discover indie creators in the MMORPG space we’ve also launched a Bluesky Starter Pack to encourage some cross-pollination of ideas and audiences. If you have a blog and a Bluesky handle, let us know either here or over on Bluesky, and we’ll add you to the list: Bluesky Starter Pack.

Or if you just know about a cool blog or site, share it here in the comments.

You don’t need to cover MMORPGs as a whole, niche content is welcome! Got a blog about World of Warcraft taverns? A deep dive into the crafting system of Final Fantasy XIV? Or maybe even a breakdown of Guild Wars 2 jumping puzzles? We’d love to see it.

Let’s showcase the passion and creativity of this community!

Cheers,

Proto_bear

Hey MMO people how are you?:)

Since I joined this subreddit I noticed that the vast majority of active people here have a united PoV regarding the MMOs and how they should be.

Please tell me if I am mistaken but my takeaway after scrolling several dozen of pages here:

If we do not speak about Gw2, WoW , FF14 and EQ = downvote / not a good MMO.
If we do not talk about tab-targetting MMO it is "scam-exit" for the vast majority here.
If someone suggests something new in the game design there will be a barrier in communication in most cases/not willing even to try to make a "game design exercise".
If it is a F2P is pure evilness no matter what.

Of course, I am provocatory on purpose! Do not blast me, I would like to have a discussion.

I know we are all different with different pov, but in the last 2-3-4 months I was carefully watching the sub for dev-related reasons, and I noticed this "mind-union".

Am I mistaken?

Why no one is talking or suggesting something that is not 10-15y old , or why no one is willing to mix genres to create something new?

Like I don't know particular MMOs that have failed BUT with some great game mechanics or unique feature, you would like to see in new games.

Are you satisfied with the actual market since you are re-presenting the same 4 titles in every question in this sub?(genuinely curious).

My personal and probably unpopular PoV is that we are stuck in games from 2000 that do not allow any experimentation over the genre, creating a similar problem we have in Italy with elderly people (really similar xD).

Are you guys still willing to try new games, starting from 0 again or are you tired and happy with what you have?:)

Again, I am hammering the point that I am provocatory on purpose, not dick head here, you can do whatever and you can think whatever:).

I am a dev working on my own multiplayer game so I am interested in hearing as much as possible pov. I became a dev BECAUSE of MMOs so I am interested for real about MMO people PoV.

I truly believe having to deal with thousands of people with a large focus on social interaction MMOs are quite unique in the gaming scenario nowadays.(for several anthropological reasons).

Thank you very much if you have read until the end AND thank you if are not here only for blasting(would be nice).

Have a great day:)

Hello everyone!

If you're interested in a single player 2D MMO guild simulation game with pixel art graphics and a bit of humor, try giving this one a shot! I've put as much love as i could in it as an MMO player.

Screen1

Screen2

Screen3

I'm not very good at talking about my game, hopefully the saying "A picture means a thousand words" means these screenshots will somewhat speak for me heh.

If you want an invite to the beta test on Google Play, please send me a message!

EDIT: Thank you everyone so much for the kind messages, I can take a peek at iOS later after done with android. I'm also thinking of making this thing free, without ads or any of those shenanigans.

Best wishes,

Martin

Hi everyone,

I’m really itching to get into WoW but I don’t know if it’s just because I want nostalgia and the feeling I used to have when I was 13-15 years old, or if it’s actually a playable and exciting game that I can play as an adult.

My interests in games hasn’t changed.

I haven’t played since cataclysm.

The main things I enjoyed were the PVP Capture the Flag, grinding out local quests and whatnot for new items, and doing instances for new gear

What are your thoughts? Is it still the same game? Or is it a shell of its former self?

I want to preface this with a few things. First, ESO exists outside of steam and on consoles. So the population counts are nearly impossible to know 100%. Second, I'm not saying the game is dead and abandon ship.

With that out of the way, steamcharts is an interesting metric to look at is it offers, in a way, the closest thing we have to an unbiased representation of populations. Now not the full population, but its the only metric available to the public if the game exists on steam. ESO in particular is interesting because its been on steam for a little over 10 years now. So we have a good amount of information to draw from.

Typically for me, games that have existed on steam for awhile and are multi platform/launcher; steam is a generalized indicator for overall health of the game. I find if a trend exists on a steam, a similar trend will exist on other platforms in my experience. So if there's a downward trend on steam, it often feels like there is a downward trend overall. It may not be by the same percents nor with the same numbers, but its a downward trend none the less.

Now 2024 is a big year for ESO. It is its 10 year anniversary. So there was a big year long celebration of some free DLC give always. Along with a new DLC release that introduced the typical new content, but its major thing was spell crafting and styles. However, in the second half of 2024 we're seeing numbers in average and peak player counts that have not been this low since 2018.

https://preview.redd.it/s2p865aw9e4e1.png?width=653&format=png&auto=webp&s=82e79be58bc29d3e2f66d1da62a5d3c347583353

https://preview.redd.it/z8uic4aw9e4e1.png?width=632&format=png&auto=webp&s=eb18437a85ae0610bb3616ec55ad54b971316061

This is a bit surprising and troubling. The main DLC was released on June 3rd on PC. And there was not much of a population jump. It also fell almost immediately the following month more than it gained. There was a big PvP update in September that saw very little impact, which probably doesn't bode well for future PvP support in the game. This was also combined with the release of 2 new companions.

As we move into the Holiday and Christmas season, we're going to start seeing discounts that typically come out around this time jump up populations. ESO right now i think is 75% off, so that's why already in the "last 30 days" we're seeing a jump. And we will probably see this increase continue. But the year to year trends of ESO have been going downward since it peaked in 2020.

This is a common trend I find in the industry. During the COVID lock downs, people had more spare time and were inside more. So it seemed like mmorpgs everywhere saw a population jump. And we're now experiencing the downward slide of that peak. The big question is if this will stop and where for these various mmorpgs.

So with ESO it becomes a question if things will plateau out soon, or will this continue. If you hang around the various feedback forums for ESO this year; you saw quite a bit of feedback. Any of these could lend itself.

1. Formula Fatigue - Content updates/DLC releases aren't introducing enough things that feel "truly new". They feel too much like the same content, but with a new coat of paint. And mini games like the antiquity system or the card game didn't interest people much. The solo/duo infinite archive (similar to torghast in wow) didn't seem to have a huge impact overall too.

2. Spell Crafting and Spell Styles were a let down. Again they didn't feel unique, didn't introduce enough interesting mechanics. A lot of the new abilities felt underwhelming and were just a mix and match of already exisiting things in the game. It allowed some builds to have access to some buffs/debuffs that it didn't before. But it didn't introduce really a "new way" to play the game from a feeling perspective. Or in the case of spell styles, didn't really change much (many of them have been recolors which has led to people feeling apathetic about them).

https://preview.redd.it/86fspcjide4e1.png?width=765&format=png&auto=webp&s=faf7c9fef3e02f2b4c537017de67fb40f4229989

3. No interest in PvP content

4. The combat design complaints are coming to a head

5. Game releases in general feel too "safe"

6. Monetization

7. WoW has seen significant success with the war within/classic and is draining players from all the other mmorpgs

Whatever the reasons may be, the trend is certainly troubling and I'm sure is stirring discussions over at ZoS. If the trends we've seen since 2020 continue, then by the end of 2025 ESO on steam will be at population levels it saw in 2017. In 2026, population levels it saw in 2016.

What will be especially interesting is that was we move into the late 2020s, we will see an uptick in marketing around TES 6. Which will probably lead to more interest in ESO. The big questions will be what kind of impact will it be and when TES 6 does release, what will it do to ESO's population going forward?

Been seeing alot of Kickstarter/Non-Steam MMOs lately and been wondering what your opinions are about it? Won't that specific game have less players since its not on a major platform, though there might also be some incentives for the developers about it ( Steam revenue cut and all that) so what do you guys think about it?

I grew up playing Maplestory and used to play it a lot in recent years. One of the aspects I always loved is that you weren't forced to do boss content with a party unless you really wanted to. Obviously running with a party is easier, but as you get stronger, you could flex how strong you've become and solo most if not all bosses.

I'm looking for a 3D mmorpg that has something similar to where I can play solo at my own pace if I chose and/or get strong enough to where eventually I could solo bosses.

One other key component I'd like to see is the ability to get so strong to where you could damn near 1-shot KO some of the earlier bosses (not late/end game) if the character/weapon upgrade system allows you to get powerful enough.

I've played FFXIV, WoW, and some GW2, so I'm not interested in those atm.

I’m sort of new to Wow, I want to dive into WoW and I feel that classic is the best place to start.

What are the differences between all of the classic servers available?

It’s either that or play T&L which also has an appeal for me.

I don't mean an MMO you just happened to like more than WoW despite them being completely different. I mean an MMO that came out in the WoW clone era or close to it that legitimately was a great game in the same vein/targeting the same market as WoW, but failed due to over saturation or other miscellaneous issues. Were there games that lost the MMO war just due to WoW's massive momentum, and not because they actually deserved to?

I find myself get super bored of mmorpgs, i tried to finish ffxiv msq but after stormblood i died from boredom. Im not into the whole social aspect of MMOs so im left with average combat and story, im probably a Single player rpg person. Is ESO worth it as a solo rpg player? i love the elder scrolls universe