/r/IrishHistory

Photograph via snooOG

A place for discussions about Irish history. This is a somewhat more serious subreddit compared to many others. Make sure to familiarize yourself with our rules and guidelines BEFORE participating.

We invite you to submit interesting articles, tell us about an interesting book you just read, or start a discussion about a subject you know a lot about or don't and would like to know more about!

This is NOT a genealogy subreddit. Please refer to the subreddit rules for more information.

A History Network Member

WELCOME TO IRISH HISTORY ON REDDIT !


A place where Irish History lovers post links and discuss various aspects of Ireland’s rich past.

As long as it relates to Irish History, feel free to post it.

Local/regional history, lore, crime & executions, saints & sordid characters – everything is fair game.

We're on Twitter! - @HistoryOfEire

RULES

  1. Be Civil - attack the idea, not the person defending it.

  2. We follow the 'thirty-year rule' just to help keep things simple. If what you are posting happened in the last thirty years, it is probably sociology or politics, and not history, so we ask that you not post it.

  3. You should only downvote posts and comments if they are irrelevant to Irish History or to the topic being discussed. If the conversation is completely de-railing, message the mods and we will look into it.

  4. Bigotry in any form will not be tolerated and is grounds for instant banning.

  5. Do not take the conversation out of the comments section. If you are badgering someone via private message, we will step in, and we might ban you.

  6. Zero spam tolerance

  7. Submissions and comments that are overtly political or attract too much political discussion will be removed; political topics are only acceptable if discussed in a historical context. Comments should discuss a historical topic, not advocate an agenda.

RESOURCES

GENEALOGY


REGIONAL OFFLINE ARCHIVES


CORK

DUBLIN

ULSTER


MISC


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/r/IrishHistory

97,839 Subscribers

6

I need help researching an old place name frome the early medieval period

(pls be kind about spelling mistakes, I'm dyslexic 😅) So I grew up on the north coast and I've taken to researching places names to understand more of the lost older history and mythology of the north of Ireland.

I've taken interest in researching Islandmagee, a small peninsula within what used to be the kingdom of latharna (modern day Larne) I've read pretty much everything you can find in googling about the early history of the island. There's not much. The older names for it were "Rinn Semne" or just "Semne" in modern Irish spelled "Seimhne" I was really interested in this older name and wanted to find it's origin. Come to find it used to be a petty kingdom, and the only other person I found sharing the name 'Semne' was one of the three sons of Sengann, the other two being Sreng and Sithbrugh(I've seen some variation in spelling of his name) Sreng was the warrior of the Fir Bolg to cut off the arm of Nuada, the king of the Tuatha Dé Danann at the battle of Moy Tura

All three brothers led warriors in the battle and were involved in deciding negotiations when they knew they were losing. Given the original name of islandmagee being so old, I feel like it only makes sense to conclude that perhaps Semne had some ownership over this land, or his descendants.

But I've hit a wall! I can't find anything more about him, what the name means, if there truly is a connection to him and the place name. I have a historical library 30 minutes away that I did my first longer research session in (when I exhausted Google of all resources) and I want to go back again, but it's very difficult to find the time. I've seen only mentions of Seimhne in multiple books that never talk about the name past stating what it used to be called and moving on. Could the information really be lost? I reached out to the gobbins visitor centre (since I'm interested in some folklore of a smyth that may be linked to there) and they've passed my enquiry on to some knowledgeable people, but since it's not open for the better seasons yet I haven't heard much back.

I'm a writer, and I've been trying to connect with my roots and the history of the land, and finding names for my characters is something I don't want to go about casually. I want to name a character Seimhne (as a surname) but I want to make sure I know everything I can find first, or at the very least know what the name symbolises

If anybody would know any good points of research, or knows a lot about the Fir Bolg I would love to hear what you know!

2 Comments
2024/03/26
21:03 UTC

293

James Connolly Statue in Troy NY

Connolly lived in my upstate New York town for several years in the early 20th century, I walk by this statue every morning on my way to work.

38 Comments
2024/03/26
11:51 UTC

1,315

Richard Moore holding up an example of a rubber bullet which permanently blinded him back in 1972 in Northern Ireland

158 Comments
2024/03/26
07:39 UTC

464

How Algerians took an entire Anglo-Irish town into slavery

The sack of Baltimore took place on 20 June 1631, when the village of Baltimore in Cork, Ireland, was attacked by pirates from the Barbary Coast of North Africa. This was the first ever account of Muslims stepping foot on Irish shore.

The attack was led by an expatriate Dutch captain, Murad Reis the Younger (formerly Jan Janszoon van Haarlem), who had been enslaved by Algerians but released when he renounced his faith and converted to Islam. 

The attacking Algerians captured 107 villagers, mostly English settlers that had been moved there during the Desmond Plantation, an event where mass immigration of British settlers to the former Earldom of Desmond occurred in order to suppress the rebellious Irish of the area, along with the captured English were some local Irish people (some reports put the number as high as 237 captured in total), the villagers were put in irons and taken to a life of slavery in Algiers.

Some prisoners were destined to live out their days as galley slaves, rowing for decades without ever setting foot on shore while others would spend long years in a harem or as labourers. At most three of them ever returned to Ireland. One was ransomed almost immediately and two others in 1646.

Murad's force was led to the village by a man called Hackett — the captain of a fishing boat that was captured earlier — in exchange for his freedom. Hackett was subsequently hanged from the clifftop outside the village for conspiracy.

In the aftermath of the raid, the remaining villagers moved to the nearby town of Skibbereen, and Baltimore was virtually deserted for generations.

There are many conspiracy theories about the attack, for example, In his book The Stolen Village, Des Ekin raises the possibility that Sir Walter Coppinger, a prominent Catholic lawyer of Hiberno-Norse descent and member of the leading Cork family — who had become the main landowner in the area after the death of Sir Thomas Crooke, 1st Baronet, the founder of the English colony — secretly hired the Barbary pirates to attack the village in possible collaboration with the family of deceased local Irish clan chief, Sir Fineen O'Driscoll. It was the Clan O'Driscoll that rented Baltimore and its lucrative pilchard fishing grounds to the English Puritan settlers on 20 June 1610. The lease for the land was for twenty-one years at the end of which the title for the land was set because of a loan agreement to transfer to Walter Coppinger on 20 June 1631. Coppinger before the time was over on the lease tried by an assortment of means to evict the settlers from Baltimore and gain the valuable fishing rights of the area early. After a long period of legal wrangling and harassment, it was decided in 1630 by the courts that the settlers could not be evicted because of the large amount they had invested in the development of the town. Coppinger was required to rent the land to the settlers for perpetuity. Ekin proposes that Coppinger, in order to guarantee that the land would revert to him on 20 June 1631, as originally agreed with the English settlers, hired Murad Reis to raid Baltimore. Elon acknowledges that there is no concrete proof that Coppinger had any involvement with the raid, however, he does note the uncanny coincidence of the raid happening on 20 June 1631 the exact same date the lease was supposed to end.

83 Comments
2024/03/25
19:56 UTC

45

The Massacre of Mullaghmast and the Burning of Naas

In 1556 Queen Mary of England approved an Act "..whereby the King and Queen's Majesties, and the Heires and Successors of the Queen, be entituled to the Counties of Leix, Slewmarge, Irry, Glinmaliry, and Offaily, and for making the same Countries Shire Grounds." This shired the new counties of Queen's County (now County Laois) and King's County (now County Offaly), thereby dispossessing the rest of Clan O'More and starting the Plantations of Ireland.

Rory Óg O'More, upon hearing of the Tudor betrayal, rallied his army and retook Laoise from the English forces, using his stronghold to escort the also rebeling Lord of Desmond through English controlled Dublin and Kildare, he was also in the Earl of Kildare's plans to overthrow English rule in 1574, and was taken prisoner by the English in November. However, he quickly escaped captivity.

He later surrendered to the English in Kilkenny, a surrender which would quickly be broken by Rory Óg O'More following New Years day...

On New Year's Day 1577, a massacre of a group of Gaelic gentry by Sir Henry Sidney's troops took place at Mullaghmast in County Kildare. Sidney invited all of the Clan Chiefs and their derbhfine from Laois and Offaly to a peace conference at Mullaghmast. They arrived unarmed and were killed with their whole families by Sidney's troops, who had surrounded the castle. Estimates of the dead range from 40 (the number of Gaelic lords there) to hundreds. O'More vowed to avenge the deaths of his relatives.

O'More's wife, Margaret O'Byrne, and all but O'More himself and one of those who were with him were killed. O'More managed to fight his way out, and 'hacked and hewed’ Harrington, one of Sidney's allies, so that Sidney saw Harrington's brains moving when his wounds were being dressed. O'More rushed between a soldier's legs and escaped practically naked.

He hoped for help from Spain, and, with the backing of his friend, John Burke, he prepared to retaliate for the Massacre of Mullaghmast. He allied himself with the Clan O'Connor, and gathered an army. On 18 March 1576-7 the seneschal for Queen's County was ordered to attack Rory and the Clan O'Connor with fire and sword. But that same month, Clans O'More and O'Connor avenged Mullaghmast with a raid into the Pale. Sidney wrote to the council the same month: "Rory Oge O'More and Cormock M'Cormock O'Conor have burnt the Naas. They ranne thorough the towne lyke hagges and furies of hell, with flakes of fier fastned on poles ends."

5 Comments
2024/03/25
12:26 UTC

753

This is what the Romans say about Éire

140 Comments
2024/03/23
18:44 UTC

19

Were the irish and normans technically at war?

Ive heard that they were just invasions and dont count as wars but i dont really see how theyre not, its 2 nations at armed conflict.

39 Comments
2024/03/22
18:00 UTC

30

Questions about Viking Ireland.

It is believed the first documented Viking raids on Ireland took place around the year 795AD, when islands off the north and west coast were plundered and it is believed these Vikings came from Norway. It is also believed the early Viking raids interrupted the "golden era" of Christian Ireland and sparked the beginning of two hundred years of conflict, with waves of Viking invaders plundering towns and monasteries throughout the island. The Vikings also established some of the cities we know today, these include: Dublin, Waterford, Wexford and Limerick.

We learned about this topic when I was in secondary school a few years ago, but my memory of it is cloudy. I made this post because I wanted to learn and ask questions about it.

  1. How did the Vikings change Ireland?

  2. How did they interact with the native Irish?

  3. Were the Normans who later invaded Ireland descendants of Vikings?

  4. Were both Ireland and UK under Viking control?

  5. Did Brian Boru drive them out in 1014 or did they still control pockets of Ireland after?

  6. Was Old Norse widely spoken in parts of Ireland or did Viking settlers learn Irish?

  7. How brutal was the Viking era in Ireland, I read they took people as slaves and committed violent acts in the raids.

  8. Was there any Irish tribes who prevented them from getting into their territory, it seems they never really got a foothold in Ulster, is there any reason for this?

I am not very educated on this topic, so I hope people in the comments will enlighten me so I can better understand it.

35 Comments
2024/03/22
07:49 UTC

15

Ulster Dialects Pre-plantation?

I’ve always wondered what the dialect(s) in the North would have sounded like prior to the 17th century. Clearly, the influx of Scots influenced the Hibernian-English spoken there today, but would it have markedly different before that from, for example, the way people spoke in Connaught? Would the Scots influence have been anyway due the proximity and relationships that existed between Ulster and the west of Scotland? Thanks in advance!

11 Comments
2024/03/21
22:04 UTC

81

What did native Irish speakers sound like when they learned English later in life?

I know modern Hiberno-English has considerable influences and attributes from Irish, but is a native English dialect in its own right by now.

What I'm curious about is: back in the days when there were still monolingual Irish speakers, what sort of accent would such a person have when they learned English?

39 Comments
2024/03/21
21:32 UTC

3

Traditions

Hi everyone! My family have always done the simple and very charming Irish traditions or behaviours but as I grow older, I want to learn more about actually irish traditions through events like Christmas and things like that, I was wondering if there was a place I could read up on it? I want my future family to incorporate these things!

7 Comments
2024/03/21
13:53 UTC

29

'A single legion and a few auxiliaries would be sufficient entirely to conquer Ireland' Agricola reported by Tacitus

From Agricola by Tacitus section 24 https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/7524/pg7524-images.html Written AD 98 free audiobook version https://librivox.org/agricola-by-tacitus/

Section 30 is the famous 'they make a desert, they call it peace.' part.
A Roman Legion was 6000 soldiers https://www.britannica.com/topic/legion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricola_(book)

37 Comments
2024/03/20
13:50 UTC

18

Spancil Hill Horse Fair, Co. Clare, Ireland 1981

0 Comments
2024/03/20
13:13 UTC

3

Ó Curnáin

I’ve searched but I don’t know how to find a pronunciation for this last name. Can someone please link some spoken examples, or at least try to describe how to say it? Thanks!

Edit: Thank you, all!

7 Comments
2024/03/20
04:08 UTC

12

Pre coinage Ireland

Hi all.

Can anyone provide some pointers on how the local and international trade worked in Ireland prior to Cromwells conquest?

As far as I understand, we didn't have official coinage.. Instead we traded with ingots, salt, cattle, broaches, etc.

I'll head into the national library soon to ask more about this, but I'm hoping some of you might already have some knowledge.

38 Comments
2024/03/19
14:49 UTC

12

Dystopia/Science fiction from North Ireland or Ireland :D

Hi everyone!
I am wondering if anyone in this awesome community has any book suggestions for me when it come to good dystopian or science fiction novels that have anything to do with a (north) Irish setting? The older the book the better too! Please don't hesitate to mention anything even remotely connected if you know of it! Any suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thank you so much!

23 Comments
2024/03/19
09:24 UTC

5 Comments
2024/03/19
01:29 UTC

318

The Pirate Queen of Ireland: Grace O'Malley.

Beginning her seafaring career at the age of eleven, she would go on to be a competent and inspirational leader at sea and a competent, shrewd politician on land. She successfully defended the independence of her territories at a time when much of Ireland was under English rule and would famously have an audience with Queen Elizabeth herself.

To her contemporaries, she was known by her proper name, Grainne ni Mhaille. Grainne, roughly translated, means small or tiny. Why the English used Grace instead is unknown. Most of what we know about her factual life, outside of the mythos or traditions, comes from her petition of redress of grievances to queen Elizabeth and to answers she gave to Lord Burghley. The answers she gave are the authentic account of her ancestry and relations.

From these documents, we know that she was the only daughter of Doodarro O' Mhailly, sometime chieftain of Upper Owle O' Mhailly, the barony of Murrisk. Her mother was Margaret Ny Mhailly, daughter of Conogher O' Mhailly of the same county and family.

Her first husband was Donnell Ichoggy O' Flaherty, chieftain of the barony of Ballynahinch. She had two sons by her first husband, Owen and Donnell. Owen would be killed while in custody during the Bourke rebellion in July 1586. Grace's statement to Lord Burghley states, "He was arrested for nothing and murdered upon a false alarm."

Sir Richard Bourke was her second husband. Known as Richard "in Irons," it was clear that Grace was in full control of that marriage. She had one son from Richard, Theobald.

After the death of her last husband, she gathered her followers and 1000 head of cows and mares and headed for Carrrickhowlly in Burrisool. This place was considered the seat of rebellion by the English and the governor of Ireland, Sir John Bingham, ordered her to live under him in Dublin under pain of death. En route to Dublin, she was captured by five bands of soldiers under the command of Sir John Bingham. All of her belongings were confiscated, including the cows and mares. In Dublin, she awaited execution. She was reprieved seemingly out of nowhere, by another Richard Bourke, possibly an in-law, known as the "devil's hook." He offered himself up as hostage and pledge. She was later given "Her Majesty's gracious pardon."

Returning to Connaught, her son came by boat to serve Her Majesty against the rebellion. She fitted out her galleys and preyed and burned and spoiled her son's lands, killing three or four of his men in revenge of his acting against the rebellion.

After this, she lived the life of an impoverished farmer. Abandoning her former life of piracy and politics. It was at this point that she set sail for England to petition the queen. She asked Elizabeth for pardons for her sons, maintenance for herself, and the return of her and her son's lands by letters patent. The meeting took place in September of 1593. It's likely that the conversation took place in English since Grace spoke no Latin and Elizabeth spoke no Irish. Despite the tradition, it is highly unlikely that Grace presented herself as an equal. It is even more unlikely that she was disrespectful by throwing a handkerchief into a fireplace or accusing Elizabeth of being lazy by doing nothing all day but pet "that fat tick"(lap dog). Grace was an intelligent and competent politician, so it would make no sense to bite the hand that could potentially feed you. The meeting was a mixed success for Grace. She received the pardons for her sons and maintainence for herself, but did not get her lands back from the crown.

As a pirate, Grace was largely written out of Irish history by contemporary male monk annalists. In the 16th century, no woman's life was worth recording. This makes it difficult to pinpoint the precise year and location of her death. Most modern scholars believe she died in 1603, the same year as Elizabeth, at Rockfleet castle and buried in the abbey on Clare Island where she had learned to read and write as a child.

The English records alone show what she was. She was brave, warlike, and an exceptional sailor. She could collect men and ships to join her in what we would characterize as piracy. In those days anyone who could lead men to plunder their neighbors and bring them back with plunder was sure of a following in the west of Ireland.

18 Comments
2024/03/18
20:26 UTC

10

Is the growth of the middle ground in Northern Ireland politics because of the same process that saw previous settler groups, from the Vikings onwards, become absorbed into wider Irish culture?

"More Irish than the Irish themselves" is a famous quote from Irish history used by Edmund Spenser to describe the descendants of the Normans. By his time a similar process had long ago happened to the Viking colonists of Dublin and the other cities too. In our day, we've also seen it happen to the Protestant population in ROI from 1922 onwards.

In present day Northern Ireland many people have noted the growth of a new middle ground, between those who primarily identify as either Irish or British. These people comprise 15-20% of the population, and tend to vote non-sectarian, especially for the Alliance party. They identify as Northern Irish rather than British, though largely coming from Unionist or Protestant backgrounds. Many, perhaps most, of them are open to the possibility of Irish unification.

Is the development of this group in any way similar to the process that saw the previous settler descendants become more Irish over time. If so, can we make any predictions about the future based on this?

14 Comments
2024/03/18
20:08 UTC

59

Guinness Misinformation

There's been a fierce amount of bad history takes circulating about Guinness, simply for the weekend it was I guess.

From Arthur Guinness himself being a supposed Unionist to somehow also donating money personally to the UVF (not sure how the mind comprehends that time jump).

All this in spite of the fact that Guinness was closely linked to Grattan and the parliamentary Patriots of the 1770-80s and being strongly in favour of changing/removing the restrictive penal laws against Catholics.

21 Comments
2024/03/18
15:58 UTC

60

What would you consider to be the most Irish of Irish songs?

Don’t over analyze and ask what does Irishness mean, go with your feelings. Cheers 🍻

155 Comments
2024/03/17
19:16 UTC

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