The brief scene about the rapists, where they were debating-- if or not, they'd kill the victim, if the victim tried to fight back. I imagine it was a moderated discussion, but just that 2-min clip was harrowing. How the psychologist who worked at the facility amongst rapists who actively talked about 'what I would do in this situation' was coping.

I don't understand how such debates amongst the criminals would result in a positive change?

I know this community is about the HBO documentary, but after watching it I can’t help to think about the Netflix miniseries Unbelievable. It’s a dramatization of a serial rape cases and, as well as I’ll be gone in the dark, it focuses mainly on the victims, so for me it a good product to watch. Sadly, it proved that serial raping is far from over but it trascends the true crime genre and both shows share a very powerful message.

For me, it was a local girl's disappearance right around the time Polly Klaas disappeared. I was so worried that it was a copycat and that the killer had relocated to my neighborhood. The idea that someone could come in through your window and take you like that kept me up as a young tween. I started getting into true crime right around this time...and self defense.

What about y'all's?

Can someone tell me what McNamaras job was? Was she a journalist? or an author? I am just wondering where she got the time to spend on this case.

Are there any links?

What is the name of the song at the end of the finale?

From episode one, the song never worked and ends so abruptly it feels awkward. I don’t know why nobody got that when making the title sequence

Does anyone know what this clip is from? It's labeled "Vacaville Medical Facility 1970s" Episode 2, 8:09

This has absolutely nothing to do with the GSK, or the content of the documentary at all, really. But I have to ask if anyone else found it odd that Patton always started off voicemails by saying, “Hey, it’s Patton.” Every time. No terms of endearment or “It’s me.” I imagine neither of them would have any trouble recognizing the other’s voice as the first words are spoken, so it was interesting. There was a tone of, I don’t know- unfamiliarity that seemed odd between a husband and wife. But I should say, people have all sorts of dynamics going on in their relationships. I don’t mean to judge- and as far as people go, these two seem to be really likable, genuine people. It just stood out to me and I’m wondering if it struck anyone else as odd as well.

I’m watching the doc and the amount of (official) information Michelle was able to get her hands on was surprising to me. Is police/detectives sharing information with citizen detectives legal but frowned upon? Is it illegal until a certain amount of time has passed? Is it just fully illegal but in this case, no one’s upset about it because GSK was caught? Any insight appreciated!

Because it seems like it was a consensual relationship that afterwards she try to compare to people who were actually raped at gun point.

I honestly don’t get it.

First off, I personally hated the book so much I did not finish it. It's a mess. It's convoluted, ALL over the place, and so poorly edited it was hard to follow anything. And the addition McNamara's personal story seems so out of place that it's jarring anytime it comes up. Why they made this series about the book and not the Golden State Killer in general, I don't understand. I suspect it was a way to get fans of the book in and maybe some people on her behalf pushed for this series. I mean, she seemed like a nice enough person, but McNamara is so utterly boring as a person that there's zero reason for her to be in the story at all. They try so hard to shoehorn her life story into the overall story, but it's done so awkwardly, and

Since I returned the book to audible and only got through a few hours of it, I have no idea how closely the series matches the book, but anytime they discuss Michelle you are immediately taken out of the story. Michelle had a strained relationship with her mom. Okay? Who cares??? You get into the story of the serial killer and the investigation, and it's super interesting and you want to see what happens next, then suddenly BAM "Michelle, blah blah blah..." pointless voicemails, emails she wrote, back story of her childhood where Hemingway grew up. 20 solid minutes about this unremarkable person who has no real story to tell that anyone should care about. Zzzzzzzz. Oh I fell asleep, sorry.

After watching most of the episodes, it is very clear that Michelle had some serious mental issues going on, and her love of crime probably ultimately did her in. This was not a woman who should have ever made her life all about serial killers, because she clearly could not handle it. Nor could she handle the stress of comparing herself to her super successful husband. That was rather sad that she basically drove herself deeper into the abyss that likely caused her untimely death.

Just a very weird series, and so many odd choices made in every episode. What should have been 3 episodes turned into this because of the meandering way the creators set this all up. And, I swear to God if I see another scene from Creatue from the Black Lagoon, I'm going to lose my shit.

I love true crime and think that Michelle was amazing. But given how much negative feedback is in this channel I'm really curious how many people watching the show have read the book and whether any issues with the show relate to having read the book or not?

I do agree some of the text and voicemail content can be confusing and the timelines aren't super clear but good god her book, including the portions that Patton, Paul Haynes, and Billy Jensen helped complete, is so damn good. If you read the book first do you feel more or less open to the HBO format?

Honestly I’m getting a little annoyed at all the people who are attacking Michelle. 1) This is a woman who can no longer speak for herself or her work, we’re seeing a product that was put together without her input. 2) I feel like the people who are being super harsh have no idea how stuff like this can creep into your consciousness and turn extremely toxic.

And no I’m not talking about your average web sleuth. If Michelle had access to the records she did, she would have been way more immersed in this than your average true crime junkie. I’ve been there, with my work in criminal law. It’s rough. When you’re laser focused on a case or a project and that project is the most horrific shit imaginable, it fucks with you. And then if you have personal trauma in your past, you start to notice small parallels... that human instinct to empathize or connect suddenly becomes twisted and warped by what you’re involved in.

Look, maybe it’s because I recognize some of Michelle’s demons as my own, but unless you’ve been kept awake for days on end by a photograph of a grisly murder or haunted by some detail in a case file, back off. Does she have it just as bad as the GSK victims? No, and I doubt she would ever make such a claim. Did I have it as bad as the victims I was reading about? Absolutely not. But I don’t think the average person realizes how truly fucked up and unsettling the unvarnished version of these case files are. You can armchair quarterback all you want, but until you’re looking at a photo of brain matter or a severed head, or reading about horrific child abuse and you somehow manage to handle it in a 100% healthy manner, then maybe you can judge. If you’ve never been in that situation, then pipe down and have some empathy for something you can’t understand.

So I’ve been obsessing over this case since like, a really long time ago. I have pages upon pages of notes that I’ve taken, and I even ordered the book that the series is based on. She had access to the police files and top secret notes, so maybe those will be in the book? Tragically Michelle wasn’t able to catch the killer, but I think that we should reopen the case as a community of interested reddit investigators and nab the guy. We can start a gofundme and hire a licensed P.I., we can compare notes and maps, and exchange other details and notes. I feel really pumped every time I watch this show and feel like I’m being possessed by the spirit of Michelle! Anyone else feel that way? After every episode I stay up for literally hours doing research. I’ve got some working theories that I need to flush out, but could use some fresh eyes. Like, for example, what about that Paul Holes guy? He seems kind of suspicious. And that doesn’t even sound like a real name. Any other sleuths out there who feel like cracking the code with me and getting this cold-blooded Californian locked up once and for all?

I am trying to like this series, but I hate the way it's put together. For example, episode 2 opens perfectly with Lori under hypnosis. Good stuff, right? Then they cut to something else! I want the nitty, griity - all of it. Quite frankly, I don't give a shit that she was married to Patton Oswalt. J/S

I watched the first episode and I’m having trouble with this. Is there even any real evidence the authors findings are even the same person? It seems like she cherry picked a bunch of disparate incidents and combined them as being done by one potential killer