So… Marjorie was obviously bipolar, likely also had borderline personality disorder, OCD and who knows what else. Bill Rothstein in my opinion didn’t have cancer at the time of the heist - he had an aggressive form of lymphoma which killed him within months, moreover from my understanding his lymphoma was untreated, so I think that came as a negative (karma?) surprise to him.

I am fairly positive he was behind this. He was the one who needed the money as his family was trying to get him out of the parents house.

He took advantage of Marjories mental illness, and her beef with the bank and with her father, and she was a useful idiot to him.

She happily helped, thinking she will get something out of this in the process, but the reason he actually held her concealed the body of her boyfriend whom she killed (there is no question in my mind. She is a serial killer) was because he needed the plan to go through and also it gave him something to use against her, which is exactly what he did.

There was nothing terribly amazing about the whole heist. Aside the fact they used a real bomb which I’m sure poor Brian didn’t expect, those were mentally unstable people with violent tendencies and very flexible relationship with the truth, which made the case so seemingly bizarre but ultimately they all died or get caught. In spite of the shabby police work I mean… 😭 that was some dumb shit the police pulled

I’m wondering if he set her up for the murder of Brian Wells? I wondered if he made up the elaborate plan, planning to tell Marjorie that it was gonna be a fake bomb just to get money from the bank he knew she hated, when she happened to call about the bf she killed. She says she didn’t know why Rothstein kept the body in the freezer. He also had told her he couldn’t help until he was finished with his current project.

Maybe he found out he was dying, decided to take her out as well with the elaborate plan, and pin the murder on her when the victim died.

Her showing up with a body was a wrench in his plan but one that he could still use for his own purposes. Maybe he was bitter she didn’t marry him and didn’t want her to be with anyone since he was dying. 🤔

The show immediately took me off guard when the officer on scene was talking about how they all expected the bomb to be fake, and not to mention the guy was sort of in a calm state for having a bomb around his neck. So my first thoughts were no way this thing blows. Then boom.. it blows up all while you here the timer going down.

The series I thought was really well put together, making you think at times that this case was never going to be truly solved. In a way it wasn’t with nobody being directly punished for the murder of Brian Wells. I did have some questions though after watching.

The reason for Marjorie murdering her boyfriend didn’t seem to be truly told. It’s obviously hard to see what’s really true with all the different things Marjorie said but if I remember correct the last reason she had was because of her figuring out something with another girl and him.(Just binged watched all episodes so trying to remember all the info off the top of my head)

1. Why did Rosthein call and get Marjorie in trouble for that murder? It seems the obvious reason is because he didn’t want blood on his hands. Even though he already part took in helping transport the body. It didn’t make sense to me that immediately after them executing there seemingly well thought out bank heist, that he would jeopardize anything that had to do with that. I mean they literally just setup in what I did believe to be an innocent man into executing the bank heist an then blowing him up. The tower at which the pizza transaction took place was so close to the house where the body was. Even though there plan was not expecting to be caught it just seemed so odd to me that after all they have done he immediately felt like he had to escape being involved with her boyfriends murder. I may have just bought into them being smarter then they really seem. The note that Rosthein gave police which the first thing listed is I had nothing to do with Wells murder. I guess what I’m trying to get at is there maybe was another reason Rosthein pinned the boyfriend murder on Marjorie. He was sick with cancer after all and police thought he knew he was sick the whole time, not sure what exactly I’m trying to get at but that specific part bothered me.

2. What was the motive for the bank heist? The scavenger hunt was obviously insanely well thought out and they knew it was going to long to finish. They also admit to trying to find someone who is a pushover and obviously not the brightest tool in the shed so how the hell is this guy going to complete the scavenger hunt of all people. It seemed to me that it was to be more of a sick game, then for the money.

Shoutout the last girl to be interviewed, she didn’t want that guilt on her plate and helped clear Well’s name up. I totally believed her and didn’t think Brian was in on it from the get go.

I bought the cops narrative that Rosthein more then anything wanted to outsmart the police, and have them not figure the case out. Then for it be a grab for money.

RIP Brian Wells.

I’m watching the last episode now, but I’m appalled by the use of real crime scene photos. It all feels like they are further defiling the dead, like - the photo of Wells lying on the ground, DEAD, with all his clothes cut off? They’ve already shown his death, which shocked me, and a picture of him dead but fully clothed. Why add on a picture of him post mortem with his clothes cut off? It seems so unnecessary.

And the victim in the freezer - if the videos of them removing the body is real, where they just tip him out, hat’s horrible. If that was my family member I’d be horrified.

In general I feel like the participants of this documentary are just so unbothered - the way they talk about the dead is appalling.

so basically you plan a bank robbery to get money to pay someone to kill your dad to.. get the money? Like wtf? This is not genius, anyone involved in this plot is incredibly stupid, especially the guy who expects to get paid to do a crime with the money he will get from doing another crime beforehand.

I don't have experience with handy work. As a handyman, Was it sophisticated with a timer?

Can man of average intellect would have built it or you need to smart?

Marjorie would always say she had five college degrees, or at least the equivalent of five college degrees. Of course, she's known to embellish so that's probably not true, but does anyone know her actual educational background?

The closest thing I would find was this garbage article which just left more questions than answers.

1. One of the accomplices killed (caveat may or may not be accomplice)

2. Ordered the pizza to a location that is

right near their home

3. Got witnessed making the pizza phone call

4. Did not get away with the money as the pizza guy got killed

5. The bonb would havr exploded too soo anyway according to all that treasure hunting

6. Got witnessed by the police in the blue van

7. Three of the conspirators sitting in jail

8. Literally called the police on themselves

How are these people geniuses again?

I would think being able to get off with the money and/or evade jail time would be what makes a criminal "successful" - - - but this gang failed at all of those.

Hey! I really like criminology and I'm intrigued by this case so I want to watch the Netflix series.. I'm okay with seeing him deceased.. that won't bother me.. but what will is the actual moment of the bomb going off.. I know at the 10 min mark you apparently see it.. how gorey is it/how bad is it.. is it hard to watch or is it not too bad cuz of the quality.. thanks.

Born and raised in Erie. Why is it that the most bizarre shit came out of Erie?

WHO do you all think was most culpable?

1. KEN BARNES

2. MARJORIE DIEHL-ARMSTRONG

3. BILL ROTHSTEIN

4. BRIAN WELLS

5. JESSICA HOOPSICK

6. FLOYD STOCKTON

7. ROBERT PINETTI

Comment the number

Anyone here from Erie? I remember when this was released last year and everyone here watched this. It was so surreal to see this odd rust belt town shoved into the spotlight like this. The interviewer filmed Jessica in a lot right outside my office. I listen to a lot of podcasts about true crime and it seems most of the weird ones happen in unsuspecting towns. Still, watching Erie and state police lining up on Peach is stunning

Every time I read something or watch this documentary my thoughts change, but I had somewhat of an idea about it rewatching it.

​

I think that Bill was the mastermind in the Wells 99% on his own...but Marjorie knew about it and was likely involved in some details.

​

On the other hand, I think that he was severely manipulated in his relationship with Marjorie, something that Bill's friend also added in. If that really is the case, Bill would have had no problem helping Marjorie considering he was likely also fucked up in the head (assuming he was the Wells case man).

​

I think that in the middle of the Roden case all going down, something made him want to finally get rid of her, and he figured out that snitching was the way to do it for good. He added in his suicide note that it was not part of the Wells case because it actually wasn't. Him mentioning that seemed to be him admitting his connection to the Wells case, though. Almost like they knew they were going to find it out anyway, so he wanted to get it clear - just because he did that, doesn't mean he killed Roden!

​

Feel free to question anything.

WARNING: MAJOR SPOILERS FOR EVIL GENIUS

After watching Evil Genius on Netflix, I came to a very different conclusion than the filmmakers-- Brian Wells was unequivocally guilty. This theory relies on some evidence from the documentary, some from outside sources (including the book by FBI agent Jerry Clark), and of course some of my own conclusions to fill in the holes.

The theory goes like this: Bill Rothstein, acting as THE evil genius-- the one true mastermind behind the plan-- built the collar bomb and cane gun, wrote the notes, hatched the plan to rob the bank, and was the head of the whole operation. He knew that he was sick with cancer and wanted to prove one last time that he was smarter than everyone else-- including Marjorie Diehl-Armstrong. The robbery was never truly a robbery, but just Bill Rothstein’s last chance to make a point. He recruited Marge, as well as Floyd Stockton, to help him with the heist. Marge brings in her fishing buddy, Ken Barnes, who brings in Brian Wells and Robert Pinetti. Everyone thought they would be getting a cut of the money from the robbery, but Rothstein knew all along that they would never get it.

Brian Wells was a willing participant in the whole scheme. He was a man who frequented prostitutes and often gambled. Some even say he had debts to drug dealers. All of this in combination makes sense as to why he would want to be a part of the bank heist, and Pinetti lived a similar lifestyle, hence his involvement. Barnes would have known both of those men, as Wells brought Jessica Hoopsick, their mutual favorite prostitute, around to buy drugs, and Pinetti likely bought drugs from Barnes as well. Everyone is well connected. This also makes sense of the fact that the whole scavenger hunt was a key hunt, which Brian Wells loved in the paper. It would be an awful odd coincidence that the man that just so happened to get roped into a bank robbery would be sent on a twisted version of one of his biggest interests. Clearly, Rothstein and the others knew Wells well.

During the heist, Wells is incredibly casual. He maintains his composure, takes a lollipop, and leaves the bank swinging his cane gun and the bag of money “like Charlie Chaplin.” Had he truly been an innocent man who just had a bomb strapped to him, this would not be the demeanor he presents. Even when the police have him detained, he still stays calm, and even sticks to the lie that some black men held him down and put the bomb on him-- if he was not involved, what was his motive to lie about who put the bomb on him? There is also, of course, Marge’s comment in prison that they measured Wells’ neck for the collar. On top of that, during Ken Barnes’ recollection of the day of, he recalls everything in great detail, down to Rothstein firing the gun into the air, Stockton putting the collar on him, and his own words to Wells when he has doubts about the plan. What he does NOT mention is Brian Wells being given any notes. According to Barnes, he shows up, the bomb is put around his neck, and he is sent off. This can only lead to the conclusion that Brian Wells already had the notes.

At the pre-planning meeting the day before, Wells must have been given the notes. The proof that this meeting happened at all is a combination of things. First, there is an eyewitness who saw Brian Wells leaving Bill Rothstein’s house, having almost gotten into a car accident with him. Also, both Barnes and Stockton cite Wells and Pinetti as being present at the meeting. Sure, they would lie about Wells to protect themselves, but what about Pinetti? If he was truly just a random coworker of an innocent man who happened to overdose close by, why would they pretend he was involved? Also, Floyd Stockton is quoted as saying that Pinetti was given an “ultra-powerful” dose of drugs specifically to kill him. Another source claims that Pinetti was at the pre-planning meeting, and was paid in drugs-- the same drugs that ended up killing him. Pinetti’s role in the heist remains a mystery; he could have been involved in the planning, and some think his role is as small as ensuring Wells showed up to work on time. Either way, his involvement is undeniable.

With everybody assuming the bank heist would be successful, everyone was motivated by either money or drugs. Bill Rothstein is the only one who knew the heist would fail. Brian Wells was meant to die-- but nobody knew except Rothstein. He made the bomb real himself, only having others get bits and pieces for him. His plan was to stage the heist, publicly kill Brian Wells, make it clear he was involved, but never get caught. Everything Rothstein did, from his staged suicide to helping the police, was just to link himself to the case, but he knew there was no evidence that would actually get him caught. It was all one big “fuck you” to the cops, because like Marge said, he knew he could play the police like a violin.

Of course, many think Marjorie Diehl-Armstrong is the mastermind. To that, I want to point out that Marjorie may be evil, and she may be smart and manipulative, but she is not a genius. She incriminates herself to her fellow inmates while in jail, as well as to Jerry Clark (with the mention of the two timers, which was not reported by media). She runs her mouth too much; this is not the actions of a genius. Also, it is fairly obvious that Rothstein had more to do with the execution of the plan, and Marjorie was just a small part of it. If Rothstein built everything and wrote the notes, it is clear he put the most time into it. Everything points to this being his plan. Bill Rothstein took his secrets to the grave, and he got away with it all.

At this point, you may be thinking about Jessica Hoopsick. You may be thinking of her interview with Trey at the end of Evil Genius. What motive would she have to lie? Well, we know Jessica said she had “special feelings” for Brian Wells, although she hesitates to call it love. If she truly did feel this way about Wells, why would she throw him into a robbery scheme she knew he would not want to participate in? That does not make sense. What does make sense is that she would want to clear the name of the man she loved, even if she knew he was guilty. This would ease his family’s pain, and it would make the public stop thinking Brian was a criminal.

Additionally, we know Jessica and Marjorie had a confrontation in the prison yard, but neither ever discloses what it is about. There is the good chance that this confrontation was about the crime, and in particular, about Brian Wells. Jessica likely knew about the robbery the whole time, but assumed the bomb would be fake. Marge likely also thought the bomb would be fake, but during this argument, even if she insisted this, Jessica Hoopsick would just assume she was lying. Jessica was most likely angry at Marge, blaming her for Brian’s death; like most people, she would think Marjorie was the mastermind, and thus would think she knew the bomb was real. She would want revenge after she fought with Marge. She would lie, claiming Brian Wells was innocent, which then would cause Marjorie Diehl-Armstrong to receive the death penalty.

This is what I think REALLY happened with the Pizza Bomber case. If you have any thoughts, I would love to discuss the case and any theories with anyone who wants to.

I’ve been obsessing over this documentary for days and the biggest questions on my mind are. If Brian Wells wasn’t involved then why does an eye witness say he saw wells leaving the meeting the day before? Maybe he wanted attention just for the news and make it up so I can understand that. But if wells wasn’t involved in the heist then why was he acting so calm and playful in the bank robbery? With the lollipop sticking out his mouth and swinging the cane?

It’s also strange that Brian had a love for key scavenger hunts and he happens to be involved in a scavenger hunt bank heist, perhaps they knew about it thru Jessica hoopsicks’ information she gave to Ken. But if they had preplanned to set up wells as a co conspirator then why did they only mention him being apart of the heist only after they found out about the death penalty and they didn’t mention wells at all for years.

I also wonder if the gun that Marge used to kill Roden was then deconstructed and then turned into the cane gun used in the heist, bill rothstein mentioned when he was assisting agents that he turned the shogun into slag but I think otherwise. I’d love to hear anyone else’s thoughts and theories

Seems to be one of the more minor fuck ups by law enforcement in this case but still.

When he first came to the police station after calling about the frozen body, he said something among the lines of “It was either turn her in or kill myself”

Probably didn’t raise a lot of eyebrows at the time because law enforcement were just learning about the frozen body case and just wanted more details on that. As well as having the Wells case going on at the time.

But then the suicide notes/cutting and all that happen.

It amazes me that these guys were so focused on finding every detail they could about the Wells case that no one thought “Man, this is the second time this guy has said to our face that he’s suicidal, but he’s helping us so it’s cool”

I dunno. Just something that popped in my head upon rewatching it

Great documentary. The one thing that has aggrevated me the whole way through was right at the beginning. When the police arrive on the scene. Brian's like: "Help, someone's strapped a bomb to me , I have 55mins to follow the instructions on this paper." Police: points guns "Don't move" Brian: "No seriously can we do something" Police: "Don't move or we'll shoot" 40sum mins later: BOOM Police: "Dam, wish we coulda saved him!"

And yes I know they "drove the route, there wasn't enough time". Bullshit, they're just covering there asses saying that.

Take away the guns from American police and theyre a bunch of useless fucking idiots. Same deal in Making a Murderer.

Would love to hear what others think

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The gun part of the bomb was pointed at his chest, correct? Could they not have simply put a sheet of metal an inch thick or something, between the device and the guy's skin? Like, sure, it may still hurt and break some ribs, but it could have deflected a fair bit of the impact...

There's quite a few subs that seem to believe these people were NOT genuises and put together a hokie plan that the police, ATF, and ultimately the FBI, were too incompetent to solve. 100% wrong in my opinion. If you cannot see the level of genius that Rothstein and Diehl-Armstrong co-conspirated together then the film truly went over your heads too. These people were evil, MASTER manipulators, far beyond narcissistic, calloused and cold, mentally ill, motherfucking GENIUSES! It is a SCARY thought...more chilling than any day ever here in Detroit. I actually have a hard time believing that I have not heard this story in some way previously. The film is masterfully constructed... The kind of movie you cannot peel from by any means; which says everything. Bill Rothstein and Marjory Diehl-Armstrong are like co-dependent addicts whose drug of choice was complete fucking mayhem. The movie in every possible way is incredible and big ups to Trey for being smart and diligent enough to put this morally devoid story together. You CANNOT make this shit up. Netflix is pretty fucking amazing as well as I am not a huge movie guy... Unless it's INCREDIBLE...and I seem to find these fucked up, yet possessing, films. 👏 An absolute, sure fire, must watch!

I think it’s terrible the way the police handled the heist from the get go. I mean wether or not Brian was involved they should’ve tried harder to get the collar off. They just cuffed him and pointed their guns! They could’ve even pretended to be interested in Brian, the guy was about to die. Them prison bitches be adding bits on 😂😂 trying to make a quick buck! Probably sat around and decided what things to tell on!

Prior to her death, does anyone know if she had a stroke. If you look at some of her final interviews, her right eye is very droopy to the point it’s almost closed.

Trey arranges for a video conference with an attorney. Unless I am losing it I don't think his name is ever displayed onscreen. It is weird because everyone else in the series has their name displayed upon introduction in each episode. I wonder if he asked to not be named as a condition of allowing them to use the footage? Also I am almost positive I have seen him somewhere before. Is he a well known lawyer who may have been on TV?

Just watching it for a second time. Lol.

Just looking at some of the letters that Brian Wells had on him. Theres a lot in there saying that if authorities interfere or the plan is stopped etc. that the bomb will be set off and that they were going to listen to scanners and drive around town watching him. Do you guys think that Brian ran out of time (what I originally thought), or that someone purposely set it off?

Side note: while looking at the letters I noticed that the word "during" was spelled "durring". Surely Marjorie wouldnt have misspelled a common word? I wonder if Bill would have?

I personally believe that Bill knew all along that he was ill (the whole 'I'm the smartest guy in the room' charade, like it was his story & he was in control of the narrative!).

He'd loved Marjorie for decades but the tipping point behind his attempted suicide (in the note, he makes it a point to mention it's not because of the bank robbery!) and later on turning Marjorie in for the body in the freezer, was because she wouldn't spend the final few years of his life with him! (She did mention that he tried to give her the swan gift & woo her, the very day he turned her in. He probably got snubbed by her)

Marjorie does go on and on about how he never accomplished anything in life or finish a task (Did she say that's why she broke off their engagement years back? I can't remember). Was Bill the real Evil Genius & Mastermind behind the heist, just to impress her? Bill's friend does mention how Marge gets "into his psyche", and it's more than just a girlfriend/boyfriend relationship.

Jim Fisher, an Ex FBI criminal investigator also claims that money doesn't seem to be the motive for this crime. Grandeur, rather and pinned it on Bill.

dam straight secretive square fuel vast smile flowery sip angle

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I find it strange that these conspirators who were desperate for cash would pay this woman a large sum for a simple introduction to Wells. Wasn't this something they could have used someone else for? Go grab a random guy who does not know the conspirators and send him? Wells would have been expecting payment had he lived, a rando would have been an ultimate victim and could have just dropped the money. Plus, if Wells was voluntarily enlisted, the risk was increased as he may have shared the plot info with friends like Rob Pinetti.