##/u/sentient_bees wrote:

This is SO COOL. I hope u_mistborn sees it. Incredible job!

##Brandon commented:

I've seen it now. Thanks for the tag. Nice work, /u/TheBenguin!

##/u/Popular_Law_948 wrote:

u_mistborn

I know this is atypical, but you need to see this for your food heist stories

##Brandon commented:

lol. I'll mention it to Dan. That's awesome.

##/u/psngarden wrote:

Had he announced if there will even be any ARCs for this one?

##/u/witchyandbitchy wrote:

u_mistborn can you confirm or deny? Will there be ARCs for Wind and Truth?

##Brandon commented:

I think there will be a few. I don't have much to do with how they are distributed, however, as that is up to Tor and to my publicity team.

##/u/Kabc wrote:

Seriously, how do these people land these jobs? Why can’t I land them instead???

##u_mistborn wrote:

I have a fun story here. Early in my career, someone optioned the rights to make one of my stories (the Emperor's Soul) into a film. I was ecstatic, as it's not a story that at the time had gotten a lot of attention from Hollywood. I met with the writer, who had a good pedigree, and who seemed extremely excited about the project; turned out, he'd been the one to persuade the production company to go for the option. All seemed really promising.

A year or so later, I read his script and it was one of the most bizarre experiences of my life. The character names were, largely, the same, though nothing that happened to them was remotely similar to the story. Emperor's Soul is a small-scale character drama that takes place largely in one room, with discussions of the nature of art between two characters who approach the idea differently.

The screenplay detailed an expansive fantasy epic with a new love interest for the main character (a pirate captain.) They globe-trotted, they fought monsters, they explored a world largely unrelated to mine, save for a few words here and there. It was then that I realized what was going on.

Hollywood doesn't buy spec scripts (original ideas) from screenwriters very often, and they NEVER buy spec scripts that are epic fantasy. Those are too big, too expensive, and too daunting: they are the sorts of stories where the producers and executives need the proof of an established book series to justify the production.

So this writer never had a chance to tell his own epic fantasy story, though he wanted to. Instead, he found a popularish story that nobody had snatched up, and used it as a means to tell the story he'd always wanted to tell, because he'd never otherwise have a chance of getting it made.

I'm convinced this is part of the issue with some of these adaptations; screenwriters and directors are creative, and want to tell their own stories, but it's almost impossible to get those made in things like the fantasy genre unless you're a huge established name like Cameron. I'm not saying they all do this deliberately, as that screenwriter did for my work, but I think it's an unconscious influence. They want to tell their stories, and this is the allowed method, so when given the chance at freedom they go off the rails, and the execs don't know the genre or property well enough to understand why this can lead to disaster.

Anyway, sorry for the novel length post in a meme thread. I just find the entire situation to be fascinating.

##/u/IOI-65536 wrote:

I just saw this shared to another community so I know I'm late, but I had a good laugh at the irony of him using the names from that particular work to promote his work as though its someone else's.

##Brandon commented:

You know...I hadn't even considered that. What a delightful irony indeed!

##/u/FieldExplores wrote:

This is the final part of a four part series. You can find the other parts here.

Part 1 - https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/1fzulzm/remember_part_1/

Part 2 - https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/1g1eeij/remember_part_2/

Part 3 - https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/1g3l7bk/remember_part_3/

I've wanted to make this set of comics for a while. Over the years, I'd have conversations like these on rare occasions. They would usually happen when I had to wait someplace for an extended period of time and there was only one other person around. They were opportunities to talk to people about difficult topics and be an ear for others that needed the same. I wish I could personally thank each person I experienced these moments with because they meant so much to me over the years.

I also decided that I really needed to pick and stick with a name for this comic so I'm going with Gator Days.

https://preview.redd.it/x2ej28tgf5vd1.png?width=1500&format=png&auto=webp&s=d8a3426e6c54a765559d695312dbed07b8bd05b8

Thank you so much for reading.

##u_mistborn wrote:

Hey, u_FieldExplores. If you happen to be considering crowdfunding the eventual collection of these, and want any tips, I might be able to give you some. I do fiction, not comics, but there should be some crossover. I also have contacts in the publishing field that could be useful, if you go that direction. Feel free to drop me a DM if any of that sounds helpful. --Brandon

##/u/2hundred31 wrote:

No way. THE BRANDON SANDERSON???

##/u/kelpklepto wrote:

How the eff does this dude have time to scroll through reddit with the amount of books he pumps out

##Brandon commented:

Everyone needs breaks now and then to enjoy the antics of a sympathetic gamer gater dad.

##/u/FieldExplores wrote:

This is the final part of a four part series. You can find the other parts here.

Part 1 - https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/1fzulzm/remember_part_1/

Part 2 - https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/1g1eeij/remember_part_2/

Part 3 - https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/1g3l7bk/remember_part_3/

I've wanted to make this set of comics for a while. Over the years, I'd have conversations like these on rare occasions. They would usually happen when I had to wait someplace for an extended period of time and there was only one other person around. They were opportunities to talk to people about difficult topics and be an ear for others that needed the same. I wish I could personally thank each person I experienced these moments with because they meant so much to me over the years.

I also decided that I really needed to pick and stick with a name for this comic so I'm going with Gator Days.

https://preview.redd.it/x2ej28tgf5vd1.png?width=1500&format=png&auto=webp&s=d8a3426e6c54a765559d695312dbed07b8bd05b8

Thank you so much for reading.

##Brandon commented:

Hey, /u/FieldExplores. If you happen to be considering crowdfunding the eventual collection of these, and want any tips, I might be able to give you some. I do fiction, not comics, but there should be some crossover. I also have contacts in the publishing field that could be useful, if you go that direction. Feel free to drop me a DM if any of that sounds helpful. --Brandon

##Brandon commented:

It is an honor to have helped in some small way. Keep taking that next step, Radiant.

##/u/Kabc wrote:

Seriously, how do these people land these jobs? Why can’t I land them instead???

##Brandon commented:

I have a fun story here. Early in my career, someone optioned the rights to make one of my stories (the Emperor's Soul) into a film. I was ecstatic, as it's not a story that at the time had gotten a lot of attention from Hollywood. I met with the writer, who had a good pedigree, and who seemed extremely excited about the project; turned out, he'd been the one to persuade the production company to go for the option. All seemed really promising.

A year or so later, I read his script and it was one of the most bizarre experiences of my life. The character names were, largely, the same, though nothing that happened to them was remotely similar to the story. Emperor's Soul is a small-scale character drama that takes place largely in one room, with discussions of the nature of art between two characters who approach the idea differently.

The screenplay detailed an expansive fantasy epic with a new love interest for the main character (a pirate captain.) They globe-trotted, they fought monsters, they explored a world largely unrelated to mine, save for a few words here and there. It was then that I realized what was going on.

Hollywood doesn't buy spec scripts (original ideas) from screenwriters very often, and they NEVER buy spec scripts that are epic fantasy. Those are too big, too expensive, and too daunting: they are the sorts of stories where the producers and executives need the proof of an established book series to justify the production.

So this writer never had a chance to tell his own epic fantasy story, though he wanted to. Instead, he found a popularish story that nobody had snatched up, and used it as a means to tell the story he'd always wanted to tell, because he'd never otherwise have a chance of getting it made.

I'm convinced this is part of the issue with some of these adaptations; screenwriters and directors are creative, and want to tell their own stories, but it's almost impossible to get those made in things like the fantasy genre unless you're a huge established name like Cameron. I'm not saying they all do this deliberately, as that screenwriter did for my work, but I think it's an unconscious influence. They want to tell their stories, and this is the allowed method, so when given the chance at freedom they go off the rails, and the execs don't know the genre or property well enough to understand why this can lead to disaster.

Anyway, sorry for the novel length post in a meme thread. I just find the entire situation to be fascinating.

##/u/NoFan2168 wrote:

PLS PLS somone explain what brandon sanderson meant when he said these covers are dialouge with one another

##Brandon commented:

It's nothing hugely profound; mostly that I asked Michael if he could make the last and first covers compliment one another, then pushed for that direction. The first is blue on red; the last red on blue. The first has Dalinar in armor pointing left, the last has Dalinar having abandoned his armor turning right. Highstorm in the first, Everstorm in the last. Dalinar in red, as a symbol of blood from his past in the left, Dalinar in blue as a symbol of his kingship on the right.

Another commenter said that they thought it wasn't Dalinar on the first book, though Michael did tell me once he imagined it was, and to this day he wishes he'd made the cloak blue instead of red, but I like the symbolism this implies, even if it wasn't intentional on the first cover, the "dialogue" with it on the last cover is to provide deliberate contrast.

Kaladin/Shallan making nice bookends in the same way is entirely coincidental. This collage of the covers really turned out nice, though, /u/jgoux. Thanks for sharing it.

##/u/LURKER_GALORE wrote:

Can't you just picture Sanderson giving himself a good chuckle placing that dialogue in here?

##/u/Arcanniel wrote:

Oh definitely, especially considering that he said that the scene where Kaladin falls down the Tower trying to save Lirin was one of the first ones he imagined for Stormlight Archive.

##/u/dalinar__ wrote:

That's crazy. I honestly don't understand how he's able to plant easter eggs and hints that won't come to fruition for years to come. It's like he already has the entire series in his head, he's just gotta write it down. That's absolutely wild.

##Brandon commented:

Ones like this are a little easier than you might expect.

Foreshadowing happens in three general ways for me. There are the obvious planned scenes, like the death rattles or the clues to what was happening with Elhokar in book one. Those are put in at the actual outlining process, when I'm planning my work to make sure that the flow is correct and the pieces fit together.

The second type of foreshadowing is during revisions, as I turn up or down the dial on certain elements depending on what alpha/beta figure out and when--whether they find it satisfying or not, whether they are confused. This can generally only be done for what is coming to fruition for the given book, so for multi-book foreshadowing, I have to rely on the first and final type.

That final type, like this post's line, is me writing along and realizing off-the-cuff there's a place to insert a nugget that will improve re-reads. This is probably the largest batch of foreshadowing pieces, and it's not hard to insert them if you know where you are going in the series. HOWEVER, the challenge to them is REMEMBERING they're there. Because I put them in off-the-cuff, I don't often track these well. That can be a problem because I could very well forget and put the same kind of foreshadowing in several places, to the point that people will be like, "Okay, we get it. Something is going to happen with the roof and Kaladin and his dad."

I think these are what lead to some problems for long series, as you do this often enough with these little inserts, and readers pick up and start to assume "Well, this has been mentioned so much, it's too obvious, so it can't happen." I've tried to watch that closely with the Stormlight Archive as I watched how it influenced the progress of the Wheel of Time.

Anyway, glad you spotted this one, /u/LURKER_GALORE. It does give me a smile when these pop up on the subreddit.

##/u/Thunderwoodd wrote:

Stormlight Archive!

##/u/thyfoolish1 wrote:

Brandon said they reached out to him and he was excited and ready to go but they haven't gotten back to him. I think this was Dragonsteel last year. So there is hope.

##/u/Egi_ wrote:

Even after the shitshow with the free book he gave them on the condition it wouldn't be commercialized and then WotC commercialized it?

##u_mistborn wrote:

I knew what I was getting into working with a big corporation. Like the proverbial frog giving a ride to a scorpion, I don't see justification for complaint regarding the eventual sting. I love the game, and the designers, so that's really my metric. As a note, everyone I worked with on the narrative team was wonderful.

I don't want a passing secret lair of five cards; I am interested in a full-blown set, so with that constraint, I wouldn't foresee a Stormlight or Mistborn crossover until one of several things happens:

1. They burn through the bigger properties that match MTG's vibe like LOTR did. Fantasy, or science fantasy, properties that feel legit as a big expansions. As mentioned in this thread alone, there is a pretty deep mine there. Dune, Witcher, Elder Scrolls, Arcane/LoL, Westeros (if they're feeling spicy.) A hobbit set is all but inevitable as well. Considering they'd be unwise to put these sorts of things out too quickly, and should really give them time to breathe, we're looking at ten years easily before they're out of larger fish to fry. Stormlight is big for a book series, but without any shows/films/games, I'd suspect it doesn't have the casual word-of-mouth reach their marketing team looks for to justify the extra expense of licensing fees.

2. Said bigger properties decide they aren't interested, leaving things popular but without media representation. If they ever decided to experiment with a book-only series, I suspect I'd be very high on the list to approach.

3. Cosmere gets one of said media properties, something I'm actively trying to accomplish--but it is slow going, as I'm in the fortunate position of being able to be very picky about partners, and prefer to take my time.

I've made it clear to them that if a large-scale set were in the, ahem, cards, I'd be willing to make frequent trips to Seattle to be part of the design team on said set.

##/u/mediocreattbest wrote:

It’s crazy coming onto this post to say “any cosmere set!” And then see you actually replying. Out of curiosity, would you prefer just a stormlight set or a cosmere-wide set? I’d love to see characters through their stories (like we had with the LotR set)

##Brandon commented:

I'd prefer Stormlight or Mistborn alone, as the planets themselves are so much a part of the stories.

##/u/Thunderwoodd wrote:

Stormlight Archive!

##/u/thyfoolish1 wrote:

Brandon said they reached out to him and he was excited and ready to go but they haven't gotten back to him. I think this was Dragonsteel last year. So there is hope.

##/u/Egi_ wrote:

Even after the shitshow with the free book he gave them on the condition it wouldn't be commercialized and then WotC commercialized it?

##u_mistborn wrote:

I knew what I was getting into working with a big corporation. Like the proverbial frog giving a ride to a scorpion, I don't see justification for complaint regarding the eventual sting. I love the game, and the designers, so that's really my metric. As a note, everyone I worked with on the narrative team was wonderful.

I don't want a passing secret lair of five cards; I am interested in a full-blown set, so with that constraint, I wouldn't foresee a Stormlight or Mistborn crossover until one of several things happens:

1. They burn through the bigger properties that match MTG's vibe like LOTR did. Fantasy, or science fantasy, properties that feel legit as a big expansions. As mentioned in this thread alone, there is a pretty deep mine there. Dune, Witcher, Elder Scrolls, Arcane/LoL, Westeros (if they're feeling spicy.) A hobbit set is all but inevitable as well. Considering they'd be unwise to put these sorts of things out too quickly, and should really give them time to breathe, we're looking at ten years easily before they're out of larger fish to fry. Stormlight is big for a book series, but without any shows/films/games, I'd suspect it doesn't have the casual word-of-mouth reach their marketing team looks for to justify the extra expense of licensing fees.

2. Said bigger properties decide they aren't interested, leaving things popular but without media representation. If they ever decided to experiment with a book-only series, I suspect I'd be very high on the list to approach.

3. Cosmere gets one of said media properties, something I'm actively trying to accomplish--but it is slow going, as I'm in the fortunate position of being able to be very picky about partners, and prefer to take my time.

I've made it clear to them that if a large-scale set were in the, ahem, cards, I'd be willing to make frequent trips to Seattle to be part of the design team on said set.

##/u/Thunderwoodd wrote:

Woah! Can’t believe you responded. Huge fan! And I loved your commander cube! Saw it on Game Knights right after I finished Rhythm of War.

Curious, do you think the Radiant orders could correspond to guilds or color wedges?

##Brandon commented:

Yes, I've done thought experiments on that, and think guilds could actively work for them without too much trouble. Problem is, would we want a Stormlight set or just a Knights Radiant set, because ten guilds for ten orders is already a high demand. It might be better to make a wedge set, but the problem there is that the Radiants are actively all colors, so it would be hard to cut out any save black. (Willshaper individuality and artistic expression could be green red instead of red black, for example.) So maybe five four-color wedges? I think the lore could support this, and be something that MTG has had trouble conveying without the expansive worldbuilding an entire book series could provide.

Radiants and sapient spren (all but black, to indicate the inherent selfless Radiant cause)

Human Nations (all but green, to indicate triumph over nature, which is an antagonist on Roshar.)

Singers (All but blue, to indicate the lack of ability to plan for the future, dearth of scholars, and onset of madness in the fused.)

Non-sapient Spren and wildlife (All but white, to indicate lack of overriding societal structures.)

Secret Societies (All but red, indicting the deliberate and conscious planning of these groups.)

Four color signpost uncommons would be WILD, even with hybrid mana. So I can see the design team balking. This (four color guild set) is almost certainly something they've explored and specifically decided not to do.

##/u/Thunderwoodd wrote:

Stormlight Archive!

##/u/thyfoolish1 wrote:

Brandon said they reached out to him and he was excited and ready to go but they haven't gotten back to him. I think this was Dragonsteel last year. So there is hope.

##/u/Egi_ wrote:

Even after the shitshow with the free book he gave them on the condition it wouldn't be commercialized and then WotC commercialized it?

##u_mistborn wrote:

I knew what I was getting into working with a big corporation. Like the proverbial frog giving a ride to a scorpion, I don't see justification for complaint regarding the eventual sting. I love the game, and the designers, so that's really my metric. As a note, everyone I worked with on the narrative team was wonderful.

I don't want a passing secret lair of five cards; I am interested in a full-blown set, so with that constraint, I wouldn't foresee a Stormlight or Mistborn crossover until one of several things happens:

1. They burn through the bigger properties that match MTG's vibe like LOTR did. Fantasy, or science fantasy, properties that feel legit as a big expansions. As mentioned in this thread alone, there is a pretty deep mine there. Dune, Witcher, Elder Scrolls, Arcane/LoL, Westeros (if they're feeling spicy.) A hobbit set is all but inevitable as well. Considering they'd be unwise to put these sorts of things out too quickly, and should really give them time to breathe, we're looking at ten years easily before they're out of larger fish to fry. Stormlight is big for a book series, but without any shows/films/games, I'd suspect it doesn't have the casual word-of-mouth reach their marketing team looks for to justify the extra expense of licensing fees.

2. Said bigger properties decide they aren't interested, leaving things popular but without media representation. If they ever decided to experiment with a book-only series, I suspect I'd be very high on the list to approach.

3. Cosmere gets one of said media properties, something I'm actively trying to accomplish--but it is slow going, as I'm in the fortunate position of being able to be very picky about partners, and prefer to take my time.

I've made it clear to them that if a large-scale set were in the, ahem, cards, I'd be willing to make frequent trips to Seattle to be part of the design team on said set.

##/u/7incent wrote:

SANDERSON?!?

I just gotta let you know, you are the MAN!

I love all your literature. Thank you for all your creative works, your books have filled my heart with joy and wonder since I was a kid!

##Brandon commented:

Thanks! It's an honor.

##/u/Thunderwoodd wrote:

Stormlight Archive!

##/u/thyfoolish1 wrote:

Brandon said they reached out to him and he was excited and ready to go but they haven't gotten back to him. I think this was Dragonsteel last year. So there is hope.

##/u/Egi_ wrote:

Even after the shitshow with the free book he gave them on the condition it wouldn't be commercialized and then WotC commercialized it?

##u_mistborn wrote:

I knew what I was getting into working with a big corporation. Like the proverbial frog giving a ride to a scorpion, I don't see justification for complaint regarding the eventual sting. I love the game, and the designers, so that's really my metric. As a note, everyone I worked with on the narrative team was wonderful.

I don't want a passing secret lair of five cards; I am interested in a full-blown set, so with that constraint, I wouldn't foresee a Stormlight or Mistborn crossover until one of several things happens:

1. They burn through the bigger properties that match MTG's vibe like LOTR did. Fantasy, or science fantasy, properties that feel legit as a big expansions. As mentioned in this thread alone, there is a pretty deep mine there. Dune, Witcher, Elder Scrolls, Arcane/LoL, Westeros (if they're feeling spicy.) A hobbit set is all but inevitable as well. Considering they'd be unwise to put these sorts of things out too quickly, and should really give them time to breathe, we're looking at ten years easily before they're out of larger fish to fry. Stormlight is big for a book series, but without any shows/films/games, I'd suspect it doesn't have the casual word-of-mouth reach their marketing team looks for to justify the extra expense of licensing fees.

2. Said bigger properties decide they aren't interested, leaving things popular but without media representation. If they ever decided to experiment with a book-only series, I suspect I'd be very high on the list to approach.

3. Cosmere gets one of said media properties, something I'm actively trying to accomplish--but it is slow going, as I'm in the fortunate position of being able to be very picky about partners, and prefer to take my time.

I've made it clear to them that if a large-scale set were in the, ahem, cards, I'd be willing to make frequent trips to Seattle to be part of the design team on said set.

##/u/awakenedjunkofigure wrote:

If any author deserves the pick of the litter for production companies, it's absolutely you. Can't wait to see what your books would look like on-screen!!

##Brandon commented:

Well, the answer to what they'd look like on screen is "Expensive," which a part of the problem...

##/u/Thunderwoodd wrote:

Stormlight Archive!

##/u/thyfoolish1 wrote:

Brandon said they reached out to him and he was excited and ready to go but they haven't gotten back to him. I think this was Dragonsteel last year. So there is hope.

##/u/Egi_ wrote:

Even after the shitshow with the free book he gave them on the condition it wouldn't be commercialized and then WotC commercialized it?

##u_mistborn wrote:

I knew what I was getting into working with a big corporation. Like the proverbial frog giving a ride to a scorpion, I don't see justification for complaint regarding the eventual sting. I love the game, and the designers, so that's really my metric. As a note, everyone I worked with on the narrative team was wonderful.

I don't want a passing secret lair of five cards; I am interested in a full-blown set, so with that constraint, I wouldn't foresee a Stormlight or Mistborn crossover until one of several things happens:

1. They burn through the bigger properties that match MTG's vibe like LOTR did. Fantasy, or science fantasy, properties that feel legit as a big expansions. As mentioned in this thread alone, there is a pretty deep mine there. Dune, Witcher, Elder Scrolls, Arcane/LoL, Westeros (if they're feeling spicy.) A hobbit set is all but inevitable as well. Considering they'd be unwise to put these sorts of things out too quickly, and should really give them time to breathe, we're looking at ten years easily before they're out of larger fish to fry. Stormlight is big for a book series, but without any shows/films/games, I'd suspect it doesn't have the casual word-of-mouth reach their marketing team looks for to justify the extra expense of licensing fees.

2. Said bigger properties decide they aren't interested, leaving things popular but without media representation. If they ever decided to experiment with a book-only series, I suspect I'd be very high on the list to approach.

3. Cosmere gets one of said media properties, something I'm actively trying to accomplish--but it is slow going, as I'm in the fortunate position of being able to be very picky about partners, and prefer to take my time.

I've made it clear to them that if a large-scale set were in the, ahem, cards, I'd be willing to make frequent trips to Seattle to be part of the design team on said set.

##/u/schloopers wrote:

Any large consideration in your mind for spoilers versus fully representing a world or story?

Stormlight you’d of course want all 10 Orders, so spoilers are far as those are concerned are a given.

But maybe a legendary creature “Iron Eyes” instead of any spoiler specific proper names?

I ask because I have so far gotten one friend in the playgroup to start reading, and a couple full sets would for sure help in garnering interest, but I would worry for the story beats getting too greatly revealed out of context.

I don’t know, maybe it’s just unavoidable. I’ve had several Dr. Who episodes “spoiled” for me through that set.

##Brandon commented:

This is something I haven't given a lot of thought toward, but I perhaps should be mulling it over. You make a good point.

##/u/Thunderwoodd wrote:

Stormlight Archive!

##/u/thyfoolish1 wrote:

Brandon said they reached out to him and he was excited and ready to go but they haven't gotten back to him. I think this was Dragonsteel last year. So there is hope.

##/u/Egi_ wrote:

Even after the shitshow with the free book he gave them on the condition it wouldn't be commercialized and then WotC commercialized it?

##Brandon commented:

I knew what I was getting into working with a big corporation. Like the proverbial frog giving a ride to a scorpion, I don't see justification for complaint regarding the eventual sting. I love the game, and the designers, so that's really my metric. As a note, everyone I worked with on the narrative team was wonderful.

I don't want a passing secret lair of five cards; I am interested in a full-blown set, so with that constraint, I wouldn't foresee a Stormlight or Mistborn crossover until one of several things happens:

1. They burn through the bigger properties that match MTG's vibe like LOTR did. Fantasy, or science fantasy, properties that feel legit as a big expansions. As mentioned in this thread alone, there is a pretty deep mine there. Dune, Witcher, Elder Scrolls, Arcane/LoL, Westeros (if they're feeling spicy.) A hobbit set is all but inevitable as well. Considering they'd be unwise to put these sorts of things out too quickly, and should really give them time to breathe, we're looking at ten years easily before they're out of larger fish to fry. Stormlight is big for a book series, but without any shows/films/games, I'd suspect it doesn't have the casual word-of-mouth reach their marketing team looks for to justify the extra expense of licensing fees.

2. Said bigger properties decide they aren't interested, leaving things popular but without media representation. If they ever decided to experiment with a book-only series, I suspect I'd be very high on the list to approach.

3. Cosmere gets one of said media properties, something I'm actively trying to accomplish--but it is slow going, as I'm in the fortunate position of being able to be very picky about partners, and prefer to take my time.

I've made it clear to them that if a large-scale set were in the, ahem, cards, I'd be willing to make frequent trips to Seattle to be part of the design team on said set.

##/u/Worldhopper1990 wrote:

Your last book… so far!

##/u/lordrenovatio wrote:

When I read your comment, I was immediately hoping to see it was a response from Brandon Sanderson himself :)

##/u/Worldhopper1990 wrote:

Haha I’m sorry! He does respond sometimes, though!

##Brandon commented:

Well, better late than never, /u/lordrenovatio. Congrats, /u/Worldhopper1990. That's the year I read my first Wheel of Time book. :) Hope you enjoyed the ride, and hope I can find a way to keep surprising and entertaining you for years to come.

##Brandon commented:

I love it! That's a great composition. Dynamic, but also whimsical.

##Brandon commented:

I'd be curious how the club views the book in context of contemporary fiction they've been reading, if any. I wrote this almost 20(!) years ago now, and now, a lot of what I did is more commonplace. Other things still feel like I haven't seen them often. Some feel like a time capsule of the Era. Give my best to the group!

##u_mistborn wrote:

Some cool comments here, and some great theories. It's fun that, in this case, you can compare an early draft to a finished one--which has come following many rounds of beta reader interaction, along with general shaping of the book.

Here's some thoughts for you, partially in response to what some of you have said in the thread. I decided to mention Vasher by name because of the "Gorilla in a Phone Booth" principle. (Named such by a friend of mine from grad school.) You can hear me talk about it more in my lectures, but here's the idea. Mentioning a phantom, unknown scholar helping Gavilar raises questions that can be distracting. Wait. Who is this? What's going on?

Saying who it is raises questions too, of course, maybe more of them. However, because you have a little context, it helps a lot of readers file the information away to think about later and move on. Sometimes, too much of a mystery can interrupt a scene, and distract from the words on the page--where the right explanations can both leave a mystery, but also leave the reader comfortable moving on for now. I feel this scene benefits from this reveal, rather than leaving it hanging, as there's really no reason to do so--and it both reads better, is more interesting, AND will help readers to have the context to file it away for later consideration.

As for Gavilar himself, one of the things I came across again and again while researching for this book all those years ago was how many of the "Great Men" from history (the conquerors, like Genghis Khan, and Caesar--and even more respected figures like Kamehameha the First and Alexander the Great) had a great deal of blood on their hands. This is obvious, of course, but we often talk about them in such revered terms during history classes--we quote them, and admire them for their accomplishments. But the more you learn about a lot of them, the less you like them, even if your awareness of their prowess increases.

I wanted to simulate this experience in the books. You began, in book one, with a more Kamehameha or Alexander view on Gavilar, but the more you learned about him and the conquest he initiated the more Caesar, then Genghis, then Ivan the Terrible I wanted him to become in your mind. Until, here, that giant reputation had shrunken and withered, and feels wrongly attached to the petty, mistaken man you find here.

He's both of them. He did have grand vision, and managed to do some legitimately great things--but there was more accident involved with his success than people realize, and in the end, I feel that most men who spent their lives struggling and striving only for power were more like he is. Mistaken, petty, and missing much of what they could have had--because they lost their better sight. If they ever had it in the first place.

##/u/jofwu wrote:

When this came out 2 years ago you noted that you had found a continuity error in the Rhythm of War prologue while working on this one. Any chance you remember what that was, or whether it was retroactively fixed?

Someone did a really cool job stitching all of the prologues together in order and that came to mind...

##Brandon commented:

It has to do with the very detailed timing of things. Nale, Gavilar, Eshonai, and making certain all the meetings happen in the order that they need to--with time to get between them and to do the things happening off-screen. Karen worked her magic, and did manage to make it all fit without changing any previous books, but it required some additional lines and tweaks to the prologue here in order to give the right indications to the readers who like to track such movements. You SHOULD be able to piece it all together now, if you really want to, but it didn't work in my first stab.

##Brandon commented:

Some cool comments here, and some great theories. It's fun that, in this case, you can compare an early draft to a finished one--which has come following many rounds of beta reader interaction, along with general shaping of the book.

Here's some thoughts for you, partially in response to what some of you have said in the thread. I decided to mention Vasher by name because of the "Gorilla in a Phone Booth" principle. (Named such by a friend of mine from grad school.) You can hear me talk about it more in my lectures, but here's the idea. Mentioning a phantom, unknown scholar helping Gavilar raises questions that can be distracting. Wait. Who is this? What's going on?

Saying who it is raises questions too, of course, maybe more of them. However, because you have a little context, it helps a lot of readers file the information away to think about later and move on. Sometimes, too much of a mystery can interrupt a scene, and distract from the words on the page--where the right explanations can both leave a mystery, but also leave the reader comfortable moving on for now. I feel this scene benefits from this reveal, rather than leaving it hanging, as there's really no reason to do so--and it both reads better, is more interesting, AND will help readers to have the context to file it away for later consideration.

As for Gavilar himself, one of the things I came across again and again while researching for this book all those years ago was how many of the "Great Men" from history (the conquerors, like Genghis Khan, and Caesar--and even more respected figures like Kamehameha the First and Alexander the Great) had a great deal of blood on their hands. This is obvious, of course, but we often talk about them in such revered terms during history classes--we quote them, and admire them for their accomplishments. But the more you learn about a lot of them, the less you like them, even if your awareness of their prowess increases.

I wanted to simulate this experience in the books. You began, in book one, with a more Kamehameha or Alexander view on Gavilar, but the more you learned about him and the conquest he initiated the more Caesar, then Genghis, then Ivan the Terrible I wanted him to become in your mind. Until, here, that giant reputation had shrunken and withered, and feels wrongly attached to the petty, mistaken man you find here.

He's both of them. He did have grand vision, and managed to do some legitimately great things--but there was more accident involved with his success than people realize, and in the end, I feel that most men who spent their lives struggling and striving only for power were more like he is. Mistaken, petty, and missing much of what they could have had--because they lost their better sight. If they ever had it in the first place.

##/u/Atmos_the_prog_head wrote:

1344 Pages is ridiculous

I love it

##/u/LewsTherinTelescope wrote:

Literally the maximum number of pages Tor can print, he had to scrap some extra interlude plans to make it fit.

##/u/BalonSwann07 wrote:

Where did you hear him say he scrapped some interludes?

##/u/LewsTherinTelescope wrote:

It was on either the Weekly Update or Intentionally Blank the week that he finished, I believe. Not scrapped in the sense that he cut ones he'd already written, rather in the sense that he'd hoped to squeeze in a few more but was already over the estimated word limit.

##/u/BalonSwann07 wrote:

Yes I remember that comment, but he mentioned the word count he ended with was higher than what the max Tor said - suggesting he didn't cut anything

##/u/PeterAhlstrom wrote:

Tor gave us a page count. I estimated a word count and chapter count based on the number of illustrations and average number of words per chapter, which was 489k words and 160 chapters. Brandon brought it in at 491k and very close to 160 chapters, if not right on. When we put it into the book it actually was 1364 pages, but we managed to squeeze it to 1344 by moving some illustrations around and squeezing chapters that had only a small number of lines on their last page.

Brandon didn’t cut any interludes he had already written, but he didn’t write a few he had been considering putting in.

##/u/rogueOptimist wrote:

Are there any plans to present them in a future book or even outside the book as bonus content?

##Brandon commented:

Not right now, as man, this book was exhausting. Maybe I can write them up at some point, though. Once the book is out, I'll try to remember to talk about them.

##/u/GraphicAudioOfficial wrote:

We have about 220 series on Audible and dozens of other stores. The only two series currently not able to be sold on Audible are The Stormlight Archive and Mistborn. Those two series are only found for sale in our direct store.

##/u/Oak_Pyre wrote:

Why not mistborn and stormlight archive? I'm trying to keep my entire library on audible, will these ever be moved to audible?

##/u/GraphicAudioOfficial wrote:

We have tried and it's not possible in the current license with their publisher. Thanks.

##/u/Oak_Pyre wrote:

Thank you,  would love to hear from u_mistborn on the matter. Don't get me wrong, I love the Kramer/Reading versions, but would very much like to add the GA versions to my library. 

##Brandon commented:

I'm not 100% sure on the details of why this is so tough, but I do remember poking Tor to make it happen. They're resistant for some reason, I believe. I'll try to poke them again. I THINK this one is their fault. Peter Ahlstrom keeps up on these things, so I can free that brain space, though--so I don't track it as well as I used to.

##/u/Zaga932 wrote:

He's a pretty vocal Souls fan, especially Elden Ring. The madman hoards runes (and presumably the Shadow DLC powerup items too), refusing to level up beyond certain (underleveled to a sane person) points, wanting to prolong the game and get the full experience & the most out of his money.

You can see it in this pic. His HP bar is like a bit more than half as long as mine, and he has only upgraded his flasks to +6 out of +10. Doubt his weapons are +25 as well.

##/u/wrathbot wrote:

At first, I was thinking of how much anxiety it would produce for me to play like him because I saw him running around with like 2.7m runes in his “Why you should play Elden Ring” video, but after a while, I realized that he must use a mod that keeps his runes when he dies, which would make his playstyle MUCH less nerve wracking for me.

##Brandon commented:

No mod. I do use the flask for giggles. I just don't level very often so runes are mostly useless.

##/u/Zaga932 wrote:

He's a pretty vocal Souls fan, especially Elden Ring. The madman hoards runes (and presumably the Shadow DLC powerup items too), refusing to level up beyond certain (underleveled to a sane person) points, wanting to prolong the game and get the full experience & the most out of his money.

You can see it in this pic. His HP bar is like a bit more than half as long as mine, and he has only upgraded his flasks to +6 out of +10. Doubt his weapons are +25 as well.

##/u/mcgeek49 wrote:

The flasks might not have been intentional. I think he mentioned wanting to upgrade them.

##/u/48simple wrote:

During the stream he literally goes "the one thing I hate about Elden ring is how little the flasks heal."

##Brandon commented:

Yeah, didn't know that they hadn't been upgraded. (Not playing my character for this.) That said, I went and upgraded them, and I still have the same complaint. I'm low vigor and still need 2 drinks to fill.

##/u/PumkinFunk wrote:

I appreciate Brandon being self-aware about the fact that he will struggle immensely to keep the word counts down for this series.

##/u/KiwiKajitsu wrote:

If only he had a better editor

##/u/jmcgit wrote:

If Brandon wanted to work on revisions for an extra 6 months to refine and streamline the book, he could do it. This is a Brandon thing, not an editor thing. What was Brandon working on up until the last minute before he had to turn the book in? He was working on making the book bigger, squeezing in more content that he wanted to add. Brandon will tell anyone who asks that he likes to write, and dislikes revising.

When an author gets big enough, the publishers and editors lose their ability to rein in the author or make certain demands. Brandon will do what he wants, and if Tor doesn't like it, they can cancel his contract and Brandon can self-publish.

##u_mistborn wrote:

I realize it's difficult to see behind the veil of publishing, and much is opaque, but this isn't what I was doing during the last few months--I was cutting the book significantly. However, rough draft didn't include Interludes or Epigraphs, which is why it got longer after I cut it down. This draft lost over 60k words, but then I added in the interludes and epigraphs (along with a few key scenes I decided were needed.)

So, let's be clear about a few things. No editor has ever--in my life--cut my books down. It's not what they do. They largely haven't suggested it. Every editor, Moshe included, has always suggested things to change or add--they don't do much trimming. That's all my job, and always has been. Yes, there is a line edit, which does help trim--but I haven't stopped taking those suggestions, and usually go much, much further on a page-by-page case than they suggest.

I dislike revision, which is important for me to explain because I want people to understand that even for someone who loves their job, there are parts I don't like. But I DO it. I do A LOT of it. It's the part I have to force myself to do, but I am very good at it--and if you follow my stories about learning revision, you'll find that I very clearly explain that I didn't get published until I mastered the thing that was hardest for me. I consider my it, perhaps, my greatest strength as a writer--my ability to look at feed back and apply it to improve books.

If they get long, it's not because I've lost an editor. Moshe's strong suit was always diction, not trimming--and Gillian (who does that job now) is quite accomplished at both. She's Joe Abercrombie's editor.

I realize it's odd, because "to edit" means to trim, but an editor doesn't usually trim books--they offer suggestions for changes on the larger scope, and sometimes do a line edit pass to clarify.

Stormlight books are not big because I can't stop writing. You can pick any number of my shorter novels and see I'm quite capable of doing something at a normal book length. Stormlight books are big because that's the art I want to make--and they are not, and never have been, out of control. I am perfectly willing to accept that the story I want to tell has not appealed to some in the last installments! But don't blame my editors. This is an artistic choice of mine, and their job has never been to change the art. I get the same amount of editing now as I ever have--and I take largely the same amount of their feedback.

Note: don't take this as a direct condemnation of you or some of the things u_KiwiKajitsu said above. It's more that I want to be very clear about my goals, and the process. My stance is one of explaining, not arguing against your opinions, as those are valid and perfectly reasonable ones to hold.

I realize that a long comment reply isn't the best way to prove I can be brief, but I sincerely think the trope of "He got big so he lost the ability to be edited" is not one that I fall into--I am, if anything, the most edited person at the industry, and see more criticism and feedback of my books prepublication than any other author. Editors and beta readers collectively wrote some 800k words of feedback for me over the last two years, which I incorporate. Not just the, "Add this" but also the "this sequence feels slow or unengaging." I am extremely passionate about listening to, and incorporating, editorial feedback.

It's fine to not like what I do. But don't blindly make the argument that I write it, kick it out the door, and don't pay attention to the revision process while ignoring editors.

##/u/tahollow wrote:

I always wondered exactly what editing was, but I figured it was more of making sure things align with the main focus of the story/ characters instead of truncating the novel.

##u_mistborn wrote:

There's really three big stages to editing.

1. Substantive Editing. This is usually the editor reading the book and offering an "Editorial Letter." The editor often doesn't leave any marks on the manuscript in this stage, but instead writes everything out on the large scale. They might offer suggestions for improvement, but more often than not, they just highlight the problem areas and ask you to rethink them or ask for more clarity. Sometimes, you'll do a call an explain what you were trying, and you'll bounce ideas off each other of how to better achieve it.

I have four people usually doing substantive edits with me. Devi at Tor. Gillian from the UK. Peter from my own company. And Karen, my continuity editor. All are seeing the book early, and all are making large-scale notes about problems to work on. (Karen's focus is on continuity first--large scale continuity like timing of days, and comparisons to previous books. The others don't worry about that much, and focus on things like character arcs and structure.)

2. Line editing. When I had Moshe, he did both substantive and line editing. These days, Gillian is our primary line editor, and she does a second pass to cover this after doing her substantive editorial letter. She's a very good line editor, by the way. This is the "Make the page bleed" type thing you might hear of an editor doing. They go through and try to help you clarify. During this stage, they will trim, though the focus is on helping you find the right words, identify trouble sentences, and the like. Gillian usually has a handful (four or five) of these per page, depending. Some pages have none. Some have more. Tightening IS a focus during this stage, but it's again more about clarity.

After this stage, I do my own revision where--with a spreadsheet and wordcounts in hand--I cut 10-15% of the book, line by line, to really condense and make it pop. This is where I pay attention to language most. If I'm writing a book with a strong voice and distinctive prose, like one of Hoid's novels, I look to really implement it here. If I'm trying something more clear and concise, where I want character voice to dominate not narrative voice, I really try to get the writer to vanish here and let the character and story reign.

Because of this, I can track exactly how much I trimmed from Wind and Truth.

3. After this, a separate set of editors take over. The copy editor is focused on maintaining a style guide and making sure that there aren't line-level contradictions in the book. (Did you say his eyes were green here, and blue in a different chapter?) A copy editor is also a "first line" proofreader. They aren't supposed to make, or suggest, sweeping changes--at this point, the page numbers and the like of the book are getting locked in for pre production.

Peter Ahlstrom, my editorial VP, oversees this. I make changes during this stage, but when I do, he actually puts them into the text. He then works with the proofreaders, doing multiple passes.

So, not counting beta readers and alpha readers, I have five main editors on a Stormlight book.

Devi

Gillian

Peter

Karen

And Terry (our primary copyeditor.)

Each has a different role, though all of them but Terry offer a lot of substantive changes.

##/u/LansManDragon wrote:

Thank you for this detailed explanation!

I'm an aspiring fantasy author myself, and have been finding the revision aspect of my writing to be quite difficult too. I often get a little lost in the weeds, I think, when trying to juggle all the moving pieces myself.

Do you have any tips for revision strategies for beginner authors? I find when I focus on revising plot, I end up with issues with my thematic vision. And when I fix that, I get characterisation problems rearing their heads. And when they're sorted, I get tone or atmosphere pipes bursting. It often starts to feel like a game of whack a mole, where I'm running around desperately plugging holes with duct tape.

I feel like I have a good mind for feeling my way towards the nexus of these interrelated factors, but once I find that point, the changes I have to make often leave me feeling wholly dissatisfied with one aspect of the story or another.

The whole process feels like a war of attrition against my enthusiasm for a story sometimes. I love to write, and have solid discipline with my word count goals. I feel like I'm proficient at identifying which parts of my story aren't working, and also don't have any issues with make even fairly drastic changes when needed.

I guess the revision aspect just feels a little mentally exhausting? Seeing that so many different people come together to help edit your works is both daunting and inspiring.

Is there any videos or guidance you could recommend? Any words of advice? I'd love to be able to figure out some way to revise properly and not feel burnt out on it.

##Brandon commented:

So, here's a few things to keep in mind.

First, I didn't start with this many people. I started with just myself, and trying to learn. I do have a few tips for beginners.

First is this: try, if you can, to give yourself some space to write something else between revisions. I find that for me, two drafts at a time is best. Rough draft, followed by a 2.0 revision immediately. From there, space--write something else, and give the book a rest.

The whack a mole you describe is the growing pains of becoming a better writer. It's actually a good sign, as you're aware of all of these things. I suggest viewing the revision process like carving a sculpture from a block of stone. Start with the big picture, the general shape.

When you approach a revision, try to identify the big problems--the character issues, the plot problems, the issues with theme and tone. Fix those first. Give the book to people, get notes, think about them. Do another revision on those.

That done, you can work on the medium level things. A chapter that feels rushed or slow. A problem with foreshadowing--too much or two little. Careful refinement.

Give the book a rest, then come back, read it again. Make any final tweaks to these things, then focus on prose. Refine the book again on a more granular level.

If you're getting good at identifying problems, and if you have good work ethic like you say, you'll be fine. Don't expect a given book to be fixed in one draft--but don't shoot for twenty, either. Do two. Get feedback. Do two. Get feedback. Refine, refine. Fix prose, and then let that be the end for that story--the best of your ability at this time.

##/u/PumkinFunk wrote:

I appreciate Brandon being self-aware about the fact that he will struggle immensely to keep the word counts down for this series.

##/u/KiwiKajitsu wrote:

If only he had a better editor

##/u/jmcgit wrote:

If Brandon wanted to work on revisions for an extra 6 months to refine and streamline the book, he could do it. This is a Brandon thing, not an editor thing. What was Brandon working on up until the last minute before he had to turn the book in? He was working on making the book bigger, squeezing in more content that he wanted to add. Brandon will tell anyone who asks that he likes to write, and dislikes revising.

When an author gets big enough, the publishers and editors lose their ability to rein in the author or make certain demands. Brandon will do what he wants, and if Tor doesn't like it, they can cancel his contract and Brandon can self-publish.

##u_mistborn wrote:

I realize it's difficult to see behind the veil of publishing, and much is opaque, but this isn't what I was doing during the last few months--I was cutting the book significantly. However, rough draft didn't include Interludes or Epigraphs, which is why it got longer after I cut it down. This draft lost over 60k words, but then I added in the interludes and epigraphs (along with a few key scenes I decided were needed.)

So, let's be clear about a few things. No editor has ever--in my life--cut my books down. It's not what they do. They largely haven't suggested it. Every editor, Moshe included, has always suggested things to change or add--they don't do much trimming. That's all my job, and always has been. Yes, there is a line edit, which does help trim--but I haven't stopped taking those suggestions, and usually go much, much further on a page-by-page case than they suggest.

I dislike revision, which is important for me to explain because I want people to understand that even for someone who loves their job, there are parts I don't like. But I DO it. I do A LOT of it. It's the part I have to force myself to do, but I am very good at it--and if you follow my stories about learning revision, you'll find that I very clearly explain that I didn't get published until I mastered the thing that was hardest for me. I consider my it, perhaps, my greatest strength as a writer--my ability to look at feed back and apply it to improve books.

If they get long, it's not because I've lost an editor. Moshe's strong suit was always diction, not trimming--and Gillian (who does that job now) is quite accomplished at both. She's Joe Abercrombie's editor.

I realize it's odd, because "to edit" means to trim, but an editor doesn't usually trim books--they offer suggestions for changes on the larger scope, and sometimes do a line edit pass to clarify.

Stormlight books are not big because I can't stop writing. You can pick any number of my shorter novels and see I'm quite capable of doing something at a normal book length. Stormlight books are big because that's the art I want to make--and they are not, and never have been, out of control. I am perfectly willing to accept that the story I want to tell has not appealed to some in the last installments! But don't blame my editors. This is an artistic choice of mine, and their job has never been to change the art. I get the same amount of editing now as I ever have--and I take largely the same amount of their feedback.

Note: don't take this as a direct condemnation of you or some of the things u_KiwiKajitsu said above. It's more that I want to be very clear about my goals, and the process. My stance is one of explaining, not arguing against your opinions, as those are valid and perfectly reasonable ones to hold.

I realize that a long comment reply isn't the best way to prove I can be brief, but I sincerely think the trope of "He got big so he lost the ability to be edited" is not one that I fall into--I am, if anything, the most edited person at the industry, and see more criticism and feedback of my books prepublication than any other author. Editors and beta readers collectively wrote some 800k words of feedback for me over the last two years, which I incorporate. Not just the, "Add this" but also the "this sequence feels slow or unengaging." I am extremely passionate about listening to, and incorporating, editorial feedback.

It's fine to not like what I do. But don't blindly make the argument that I write it, kick it out the door, and don't pay attention to the revision process while ignoring editors.

##/u/jmcgit wrote:

Hey Brandon, I appreciate the insight! I regret that my post may have come off as if you carelessly "write and kick it out the door", as I know how hard you and your team have been working on the book over the past months and years, and how passionate you are about getting it right.

##Brandon commented:

No problem and no offense taken! I just see a lot of confusion about these things.

I am edited far, far more now than when I was when I started and nobody cared. Though, admittedly, I think the most editorial scrutiny I ever got was on A Memory of Light a decade ago. I probably get less now, but I also have way more extensive beta reads.

It's just a complex process. And, you also ARE right in your initial post that I could go over it again and again, and some authors do. I'm middle of the road on the number of revisions I do, by my experience. Not as many as someone like Pat R. does. More than a lot of authors. I do not subscribe to the Heinline philosophy of only editing when required by contract that is very popular these days. (This philosophy believes that your initial artistic instinct will be right, and you shouldn't undermine it later on. I am not a fan, even if some people I respect follow this philosophy.)

Anyway, your initial post wasn't far off; I just wanted to offer some more context for this thread.

##/u/acurrantafair wrote:

OP, was this… my show? If so, thanks for coming!

##/u/izzination wrote:

Oh my gosh how wholesome you found this thread! 🥹

##/u/LBbird24 wrote:

I love Reddit

##/u/4RyteCords wrote:

I know right. 20 years ago how could something like this happen. My favourite author is branden Sanderson, he writes fantasy novels. I saw an article about him once and in the article they called him Brian Sanderson. I posted the article and said how crazy it was that they could get his name wrong and brands on Sanderson saw it and replied and we had a bit of a back and forth when I got to tell him how big of a fan I was and thanked me for reading his books. Nothing big but meant a lot to me.

##/u/potentscrotem wrote:

Ye 10 or so years ago I thanked his username on some random thread for finishing WoT and he wrote back saying my pleasure and it nearly knocked my socks off.

Thanks again u_mistborn

##Brandon commented:

My pleasure again. (Sorry for the slow reply this time.)

##/u/PumkinFunk wrote:

I appreciate Brandon being self-aware about the fact that he will struggle immensely to keep the word counts down for this series.

##/u/KiwiKajitsu wrote:

If only he had a better editor

##/u/jmcgit wrote:

If Brandon wanted to work on revisions for an extra 6 months to refine and streamline the book, he could do it. This is a Brandon thing, not an editor thing. What was Brandon working on up until the last minute before he had to turn the book in? He was working on making the book bigger, squeezing in more content that he wanted to add. Brandon will tell anyone who asks that he likes to write, and dislikes revising.

When an author gets big enough, the publishers and editors lose their ability to rein in the author or make certain demands. Brandon will do what he wants, and if Tor doesn't like it, they can cancel his contract and Brandon can self-publish.

##u_mistborn wrote:

I realize it's difficult to see behind the veil of publishing, and much is opaque, but this isn't what I was doing during the last few months--I was cutting the book significantly. However, rough draft didn't include Interludes or Epigraphs, which is why it got longer after I cut it down. This draft lost over 60k words, but then I added in the interludes and epigraphs (along with a few key scenes I decided were needed.)

So, let's be clear about a few things. No editor has ever--in my life--cut my books down. It's not what they do. They largely haven't suggested it. Every editor, Moshe included, has always suggested things to change or add--they don't do much trimming. That's all my job, and always has been. Yes, there is a line edit, which does help trim--but I haven't stopped taking those suggestions, and usually go much, much further on a page-by-page case than they suggest.

I dislike revision, which is important for me to explain because I want people to understand that even for someone who loves their job, there are parts I don't like. But I DO it. I do A LOT of it. It's the part I have to force myself to do, but I am very good at it--and if you follow my stories about learning revision, you'll find that I very clearly explain that I didn't get published until I mastered the thing that was hardest for me. I consider my it, perhaps, my greatest strength as a writer--my ability to look at feed back and apply it to improve books.

If they get long, it's not because I've lost an editor. Moshe's strong suit was always diction, not trimming--and Gillian (who does that job now) is quite accomplished at both. She's Joe Abercrombie's editor.

I realize it's odd, because "to edit" means to trim, but an editor doesn't usually trim books--they offer suggestions for changes on the larger scope, and sometimes do a line edit pass to clarify.

Stormlight books are not big because I can't stop writing. You can pick any number of my shorter novels and see I'm quite capable of doing something at a normal book length. Stormlight books are big because that's the art I want to make--and they are not, and never have been, out of control. I am perfectly willing to accept that the story I want to tell has not appealed to some in the last installments! But don't blame my editors. This is an artistic choice of mine, and their job has never been to change the art. I get the same amount of editing now as I ever have--and I take largely the same amount of their feedback.

Note: don't take this as a direct condemnation of you or some of the things u_KiwiKajitsu said above. It's more that I want to be very clear about my goals, and the process. My stance is one of explaining, not arguing against your opinions, as those are valid and perfectly reasonable ones to hold.

I realize that a long comment reply isn't the best way to prove I can be brief, but I sincerely think the trope of "He got big so he lost the ability to be edited" is not one that I fall into--I am, if anything, the most edited person at the industry, and see more criticism and feedback of my books prepublication than any other author. Editors and beta readers collectively wrote some 800k words of feedback for me over the last two years, which I incorporate. Not just the, "Add this" but also the "this sequence feels slow or unengaging." I am extremely passionate about listening to, and incorporating, editorial feedback.

It's fine to not like what I do. But don't blindly make the argument that I write it, kick it out the door, and don't pay attention to the revision process while ignoring editors.

##/u/tahollow wrote:

I always wondered exactly what editing was, but I figured it was more of making sure things align with the main focus of the story/ characters instead of truncating the novel.

##Brandon commented:

There's really three big stages to editing.

1. Substantive Editing. This is usually the editor reading the book and offering an "Editorial Letter." The editor often doesn't leave any marks on the manuscript in this stage, but instead writes everything out on the large scale. They might offer suggestions for improvement, but more often than not, they just highlight the problem areas and ask you to rethink them or ask for more clarity. Sometimes, you'll do a call an explain what you were trying, and you'll bounce ideas off each other of how to better achieve it.

I have four people usually doing substantive edits with me. Devi at Tor. Gillian from the UK. Peter from my own company. And Karen, my continuity editor. All are seeing the book early, and all are making large-scale notes about problems to work on. (Karen's focus is on continuity first--large scale continuity like timing of days, and comparisons to previous books. The others don't worry about that much, and focus on things like character arcs and structure.)

2. Line editing. When I had Moshe, he did both substantive and line editing. These days, Gillian is our primary line editor, and she does a second pass to cover this after doing her substantive editorial letter. She's a very good line editor, by the way. This is the "Make the page bleed" type thing you might hear of an editor doing. They go through and try to help you clarify. During this stage, they will trim, though the focus is on helping you find the right words, identify trouble sentences, and the like. Gillian usually has a handful (four or five) of these per page, depending. Some pages have none. Some have more. Tightening IS a focus during this stage, but it's again more about clarity.

After this stage, I do my own revision where--with a spreadsheet and wordcounts in hand--I cut 10-15% of the book, line by line, to really condense and make it pop. This is where I pay attention to language most. If I'm writing a book with a strong voice and distinctive prose, like one of Hoid's novels, I look to really implement it here. If I'm trying something more clear and concise, where I want character voice to dominate not narrative voice, I really try to get the writer to vanish here and let the character and story reign.

Because of this, I can track exactly how much I trimmed from Wind and Truth.

3. After this, a separate set of editors take over. The copy editor is focused on maintaining a style guide and making sure that there aren't line-level contradictions in the book. (Did you say his eyes were green here, and blue in a different chapter?) A copy editor is also a "first line" proofreader. They aren't supposed to make, or suggest, sweeping changes--at this point, the page numbers and the like of the book are getting locked in for pre production.

Peter Ahlstrom, my editorial VP, oversees this. I make changes during this stage, but when I do, he actually puts them into the text. He then works with the proofreaders, doing multiple passes.

So, not counting beta readers and alpha readers, I have five main editors on a Stormlight book.

Devi

Gillian

Peter

Karen

And Terry (our primary copyeditor.)

Each has a different role, though all of them but Terry offer a lot of substantive changes.

##/u/frostandtheboughs wrote:

All the most famous living artists have workshops full of people who make the art for them.

They spend their time choosing concepts, talking to their gallery reps and schmoozing buyers. The only time they touch the work is to sign it.

##/u/iwillfuckingbiteyou wrote:

Similarly, there's a very strong chance your favourite author uses ghostwriters. Unless your favourite is George RR Martin, whose publishers probably fucking wish he'd let them bring in ghostwriters so they could finally sell you The Winds of Winter, or JK Rowling, because if a ghostwriter turned in text so riddled with adverbs we'd be replaced with a more competent writer.

Source: Was a ghostwriter. Not a particularly high-level one, but I wrote a couple of minor bestsellers before I packed it in to languish in obscurity under my own name.

##/u/Andrew_Squared wrote:

u_Mistborn say it isn't so!

##Brandon commented:

Ha. No, it's isn't the case for me. I don't think it's as common in writing as /u/frostandtheboughs says it is for other kinds of art. Though...I can unfortunately corroborate it does happen in fine art more than people expect. Not any of the fantasy artists I personally know, but some other artists.

I think /u/iwillfuckingbiteyou might be overstating their case. I've never known a person in f&sf to use a ghost writer--even myself, when called in to write on the Wheel of Time, was credited. They didn't need to put my name on the cover, but there was never a question if they would. Maybe it happens in thrillers or the like.

If I write a book with one of my pals, their name is on the book--and often, they do quite a bit of the work. But if my name is the only one on the book, I'm the one who wrote basically every word. (I did hire out the songs in Words of Radiance, as talked about in the front material, to have an actual poet in that seat. And editors do make suggestions that I often take, leaving their touch on the book in the shape of changed words here and there.)

I've never written a book with anyone but one of my pals, really--closest is the Legion story that we did in audio only (death and faxes) which I had very little input in, and insisted it be listed as "Brandon Sanderson's Legion" rather than with myself as an author. But even though they ignored that in some regions, it still has the other author credited as co-author. (It was pitched more as a television type deal, with an attempt at turning it into a serial run by a writer's room. Never took off.)

Anyway, no, this doesn't happen very often among the people I know and have met. Basically never. But different parts of the industry can be very different--nonfiction, for example, is a completely different world. It's full of ghostwriting. And I know in romance, pen names are very, very common, much more so than F&SF.