The three Turiyas are of jeeva, para and siva. Each of these states have 4 states like jagrat, swapna, sushupti. So totally 16 states. Kindly clear my doubts regarding this and how Dzogchen views these things.

any good matrieal on signs of gaining more stability?

In the other thread it was noted:

The closest thing I can seem to find is "rang rigpa" which is translated as "reflexive apperception", but I'm not sure if that means the same thing.

It is important for newcomers and more seasoned practitioners alike to understand the meaning of rang rig, which is a polysemous term that carries different meanings depending on the system and context we find it in.

Alak Zenkar Rinpoche clarifies that rang rig in a Dzogchen context is derived from another Sanskrit construct: atmyavedana and is short for so so rang gyi rig pa’i ye shes or pratyatmyavedanajñāna, which means “gnosis which one knows personally and individually.”

This means “rig pa” in general represents a jñāna or gnosis that is personally known and intuited through direct experiential recognition.

“Personally (pratyatmya) intuited (vedana) gnosis (jñāna)" Thus, rang rig in atiyoga is pratyātmavit “personally known” or “one’s own rig pa (rang gi rig pa).”

In contrast, rang rig in Yogācāra is svasaṃvedana (rang gyis rig pa), meaning a reflexive or substantial nondual cognition or a reflexive consciousness that takes itself as an object.

We can see the genitive difference in these two terms rang gi rig pa and rang gyis rig pa. Rang gi means "one's own"; in Tibetan; it is the genitive case, showing possession. Therefore we cannot just take the contraction rang rig at face value, it is important to consider context and grammar, as both alter the intended meaning.

It is not proper to gloss rang rig in a Dzogchen context as “self-knowing,” “self-reflexive,” “reflexive apperception,” etc., if you see this in a translation, then the translator has unfortunately made an error, and is unaware of the aforementioned differences in the respective definitions between Dzogchen and Yogācāra when it comes to the contraction rang rig.

Svasaṃvedana (rang rig) in general has multiple definitions in different systems. For example in common Mahāyāna, svasaṃvedana means "intrinsic" or "innate" knowing. It is intended to contradict the Vaibhashika and Sautrantika contention that an instance of knowing depends on an object and a sense organ to arise. There has been a great deal of confusion about the nature of the principle over the years. Ideas such as “reflexive” knowing where the mind takes itself as an object have even been mistakenly grafted onto the presentations of svasaṃvedana (rang rig) in common Mahāyāna, which again, is unjustified as shown in the following examples:  

Examples of the common Mahāyāna definition of svasaṃvedana (rang rig) as “intrinsic knowing” are found in the writings of Śāntarakṣita where he defines svasaṃvedana as follows:  

The nature of intrinsic clarity that does not depend on another clarifier is the intrinsic knowing (svasaṃvedana) of consciousness.  

And Kamalaśīla states:  

The concise meaning is that the function of intrinsic knowing (svasaṃvedana) is only to be the opposite of inert substances such as chariots, walls and so on. It is a convention for a clarity that does not depend on anything.  

Vajrayāna tantras even tow the line with this definition. The Śrīguhyasamājālaṃkāra states:

Consciousness arises contrary to an insentient nature; that whose nature is not insentient, that alone is intrinsically knowing (svasaṃvedana).  

The next definition of svasaṃvedana is found in Yogācāra, which as mentioned above is defined as a cognition that is itself established but is empty of both subject and object.  

In this context it is vital to understand that rang rig is a contraction of another term, and this is true for both Yogācāra and Dzogchen.

In the context of Yogācāra, rang rig is a contraction of rang gyis rig pa which is then abbreviated as rang rig. Rang gyis rig pa means, in Yogācāra, an a reflexive cognizance where consciousness takes itself as an object.

In Atiyoga, the term rang rig is also a contraction, however the original term is Rang gi rig pa which is then also abbreviated as rang rig, but means in this case, “one’s own rig pa.” The longer definition being “a gnosis that is personally known,” and so on as noted above.

We might be tempted to think this Yogācāra definition coincides with the Dzogchen understanding of rang rig but the Inlaid Jewels Tantra, for example, rejects the Yogācāra definition, stating:  

Untainted vidyā is the kāya of jñāna (tib. ye shes). Since svasaṃvedana (rang gyis rig pa or “rang rig”) is devoid of actual signs of awakening, it is not at all the jñāna of vidyā (rig pa'i ye shes).  

Ju Mipham states in Liquid Gold:

The Cittamatrin Yogācārins deconstruct both subject and object in a mere empty intrinsically knowing gnosis (jñāna).

The difference between that svasaṃvedana of Yogācāra and the svayaṃbhūjñāna of ati is, as he says:

When the pairing of the dhātu and vidyā is deconstructed, there is no focal point upon which to grasp. Once it is understood that the final premise, “this is ultimate,” is deconstructed in the state of inexpressible emptiness, one enters into the nondual jñāna (tib. ye shes) that all phenomena of the inseparable two truths are of the same taste.

In the Lung gi gter mdzod, Longchenpa defines rang gi rig pa or rang rig as “one’s knowledge” or “one’s own rig pa.”

From Ācārya Malcolm:

།ཡུལ་སྣང་དངོས་པོ་དང༌། ཤེས་པའི་འཕྲོ་འདུ་དངོས་མེད་གཉིས་མེད་དུས། འཁོར་འདས་སུ་འཇལ་ཞིང་འཛིན་བྱེད་ཀྱི་རྣམ་པ་གཞན་མེད་པས། སོ་སོ་རང་གི་རིག་པའི་ཡེ་ཤེས་སྨྲ་བསམ་བརྗོད་པ་མེད་པ་རང་གི་རིག་པ་ཞེས་བྱ།

When there are neither substantial apparent objects nor an insubstantial expansion and contraction of consciousness, since there is no other aspect to encounter or grasp in saṃsāra and nirvāṇa, the personally (so so rang gi) known (rig pa’i) pristine consciousness (ye shes) beyond description, thought, or expression, is called “one’s knowledge” (rang gi rig pa, i.e., rang rig).

Thus, rang rig, in Dzogchen, is just a contraction of this longer term, which we find even in the Pali Canon:

Paccatta (adj.) [paṭi+attan] separate, individual.

In Sanskrit, this term is pratyātma
Vedeti [Vedic vedayati; Denom. or Caus. fr. vid to know or feel] “to sense,”.

In Sanskrit, this is formed from the same stem as vidyā.

Hence, "pratyātmavit” just means “personally known.” Hence, “rang gi rig” or “rang rig” in Dzogchen texts just means “personally known.”

recently I get into these freefalling states where everything arises and vanishes really quickly ...it that a nyam ? what does it mean?

I've been given the pointing out instruction by a qualified teacher, a lama in fact. The instruction accords with the writings of Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche (in whose lineage the teacher is), where one directs attention back towards the awareness, as T.U.R. put it, "When a thought occurs in your mind, instead of looking at what is being thought of, recognize what is it that thinks the thought; look into its source". Is there a specific term in Dzogchen for this looking back at the source of awareness? (In Zen they call it eko hensho.)

Addendum: The closest thing I can seem to find is "rang rigpa" which is translated as "reflexive apperception", but I'm not sure if that means the same thing.
https://tibetanbuddhistencyclopedia.com/en/index.php/Clear_light_meditation

Thank you.

Maybe you all tried talking to ChatGPT about Dzogchen. I'm late to the game. My first AI adventure was today talking to Deepseek, the new Chinese AI. It's free. Trivial to sign up. And damn if it doesn't come up with some interesting answers if you ask things like whether it can do trekcho, how is being a being subject to dependent origination different from being a pre-programmed AI. I asked it if it had any helpful commentary on Longchenpa's Guidance on Being at Ease With Illusion and it did a pretty good job. I followed up with "What is the point of the dream yoga visualization of the white A?" and it gave me a good answer. I'm really impressed.

About a pathway in the bodys center starting from navel to eyebrow centre in which there's a membrane that can move up and down. It moving up and reaching the top as enlightenment and ultimate siddhi. This pathway is broader at the navel and becomes very narrow and small as it moves up. This is membrane is not known by normal people but only will be known in a yogis experience.

Is there any such mentioned in any untranslated Dzogchen or Tibetan texts?

Hi all. New to dzogchen. I will receive transmission in March and also in May, from two different teachers. But I am wondering what materials I should avoid reading about, I know many are off limits, but it can be a struggle to know which ones especially when there is for example a list of pdfs with teachings. I am an avid scholar but I don’t want to mess up the process with my curiosity.

EDIT: Thank you all for your kind words and advice! Blessings to you.

I saw a video today on the rainbow body, which seemed interwoven with Hindu ideas, that claimed that light is the essence of everything in the universe. That consciousness is the subjective experience of light.

Considering the illumination phenomenon that happens during meditation, in which one is seemingly immersed in ultra bright, white starlight, this idea seems alluring. But I've never heard of this before in any form of Buddhism, and it doesn't sound right to me.

If it were true, what would that imply for the sun and other stars? Are they radiating bliss/love/joy like the light in meditation along with luminosity and heat? And we just can't feel it because of conceptual oscuration?

This is a fascinating idea, considering everything starts to turn to light before your eyes during open presence, until there is only pure light.

Is this a common viewpoint in Dzogchen, or any of its lineages? Is there any possibility that rigpa/dharmakaya itself is light?

https://www.upaya.org/2013/09/dzogchen-and-zen-series-all-8-parts/

Are there any togal retreats happening any time soon by any Dzogchen Masters?

Dear Dharma Friends,

Geshe Tenzin Gelek Rinpoche is pleased to announce the upcoming teaching of the Fifth Lamp of the Six Lamps of the Dzogchen Zhang Zhung Nyengyud. Teachings begin this Thursday, 23 January 2025. The teachings will continue Tuesdays and Thursdays from 10:15 p.m. to 11:45 p.m. Eastern Time, until they are complete.

There will be ten (10) teaching sessions of the Fifth Lamp, The Lamp of Direct Introduction of the Pure Realms. The recommended donation for each session is $20. 10 x $20 = $200. Payment plans and scholarships are possible; please communicate if needed. The teachings are recorded and links will be available for one week after each session is finished. Geshe la's translation of the root text will be provided.

Working on a compressed schedule, there hasn't yet been an opportunity to update the website for registration and donations. Until that link is established, please email Peter at pittmanpa@gmail.com for registration details. We'll respond as quickly as possible with course material and Zoom links. Please let us know if you have any questions.

Thanks, Peter

This is a totally newbie question. maybe these states are too subtle for me to identify and differentiate.

Essentially, what i want clarity about is that how does one direct an open awareness towards space in any directions without perhaps, an unconscious impulse to imagine the signs or tangible attributes of space such as air, directions, solid objects etc.

since i have a Theravada background, my understanding from my practice of sati and Vipassana, has lead me to believe that my scope of awareness is limited to the extent of my body. i am not claiming so, just stating my implicit subconscious belief.

so, during shamatha practices, when I'm instructed to either concentrate/release my awareness on space around or in front or up or down, i inevitably end up imagining the space rather than actually resting my awareness in there.

how do i differentiate my imagination from actual, non-conceptual, somatic awareness of space? how does my awareness unbind from the limits of my body and rest into some space that is not necessarily in contact with my body?

i don't want to sit around for hours thinking I'm meditating all the while floating in a swirl of my imaginations. please correct me and guide me on how to avoid these fundamental blunders.

Thanks in advance!

Edit: I forgot to mention this-

what i was following were pointing out instructions that Lama Alan Wallace had received personally from Gyatrul Rinpoche along with the commentary in alignment to Natural Liberation.

In Dzogchen, there’s an emphasis on cultivating spacious awareness and resting in the natural state, free from distraction. Social media platforms like Instagram and TikTok seem to encourage fragmented attention, habitual scrolling, and constant stimulation. For those of you practicing Dzogchen, how do you approach the use of social media? Do you find it conflicts with your ability to sustain awareness, and if so, how do you balance its use while staying grounded in your practice?

There is not likely to be a definite answer for this question, but I’m crowdsourcing to see various opinions.

How do we “view” Hypnosis from the Dzogchen View?

Typically, in Buddhist method, we are discouraged to allow “dullness.” I would say the induction of trance feels the same as dullness to me. Also, within the View is the recognition of the a-causal spontanious arising of appearance from the Ground of Being.

Experientially, hypnosis is VERY effective for me: habit reduction, going to sleep faster, uncovering some childhood trauma I’ve forgotten that explains current habit patterns. But 1) this requires dullness to somehow “convince” the (maybe) storehouse consciousness to affect the mind in predictable ways, and 2) when what was programmed appears, it doesn’t seem to a-causally.

Now, I realize this is all conceptualization, and maybe Dzogchen isn’t meant to be explain hypnosis, but was still curious about peoples’ thoughts.

I’ve been using the Waking Up app for a few years now. I’ve bounced around from teacher to teacher and heard all the conversations. I’ve tried to rest in Rigpa all by myself with the voice of Sam Harris guiding me. But I’ve come to a point in my meditation “career” and my life where I need to commit. And the Westernized version of Dzogchen that Sam speaks about has helped but I know he has not committed his life to do this. I’d like to learn from people who spend their day to day lives involved with Dzogchen teachings.

So where do I start? I listen to James Lowe everyday but still I feel there’s something missing. I’m not exactly picking up what he’s putting down. Maybe because I’ve missed some preliminary steps or the basis of the practice and the Dzogchen worldview.

Are there any necessary books, teachers, YT channels, and lifestyle changes that will help me on my journey? I don’t even know how they meditate besides resting in rigpa, which I cannot do. It’s more of an open monitoring when I try. I hope this sub is alive and I can get some useful info. Thanks for reading!

Edit: it seems I need a competent teacher who I will be able to meet in person. Which is exactly what I thought and why I wanted to move away from the app guidance. Thank you guys. I will start with a few books you’ve recommended and look into Lama Lena and a few others mentioned that I cannot spell. I appreciate the quick and informative responses.

Dependent Origination is the most important teaching. In it's condensed form - Ignorance -> Karma -> Suffering.

Dependent on ignorance, volitional formations arise. Thus, there is the arising of this whole mass of suffering. Through the entire cessation of this ignorance, volitional formations cease. Thus, there is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering.

Cetanaa Sutta: Volition - https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.038.wlsh.html

[1] [At Saavatthii the Blessed One said:] "Monks, what a man wills, what he plans, what he dwells on forms the basis for the continuation of consciousness.[2] This basis being present, consciousness has a lodgment. Consciousness being lodged there and growing, rebirth of renewed existence takes place in the future, and from this renewed existence arise birth, decay-and-death, grief, lamentation, suffering, sorrow and despair. Such is the uprising of this entire mass of suffering.

"Even if a man does not will and plan, yet if he dwells on something this forms a basis for the continuation of consciousness:... rebirth... takes place...

"But if a man neither wills nor plans nor dwells on anything, no basis is formed for the continuation of consciousness. This basis being absent, consciousness has no lodgment. Consciousness not being lodged there and not growing, no rebirth of renewed existence takes place in the future, and so birth, decay-and-death, grief, lamentation, suffering, sorrow and despair are destroyed. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of suffering."

Notes

1.Cetanaa. This is equated in AN vi, 13 with kamma. [Cf. AN 6.63, sect. [5]: "... Intention, I tell you, is kamma."]2.Consciousness (defined as "karmic consciousness" in SA [SN Commentary]) is dependent on the formations (sankhaaraa) of which volition (n. 1) is one.

10.2. Volition - https://suttacentral.net/an10.2/en/bodhi?lang=en&reference=none&highlight=false

(1)–(2) “Bhikkhus, for a virtuous person, one whose behavior is virtuous, no volition need be exerted: ‘Let non-regret arise in me.’ It is natural that non-regret arises in a virtuous person, one whose behavior is virtuous.

(3) “For one without regret no volition need be exerted: ‘Let joy arise in me.’ It is natural that joy arises in one without regret.

(4) “For one who is joyful no volition need be exerted: ‘Let rapture arise in me.’ It is natural that rapture arises in one who is joyful.

(5) “For one with a rapturous mind no volition need be exerted: ‘Let my body be tranquil.’ It is natural that the body of one with a rapturous mind is tranquil.

(6) “For one tranquil in body no volition need be exerted: ‘Let me feel pleasure.’ It is natural that one tranquil in body feels pleasure.

(7) “For one feeling pleasure no volition need be exerted: ‘Let my mind be concentrated.’ It is natural that the mind of one feeling pleasure is concentrated.

(8) “For one who is concentrated no volition need be exerted: ‘Let me know and see things as they really are.’ It is natural that one who is concentrated knows and sees things as they really are.

(9) “For one who knows and sees things as they really are no volition need be exerted: ‘Let me be disenchanted and dispassionate.’ It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate.

(10) “For one who is disenchanted and dispassionate no volition need be exerted: ‘Let me realize the knowledge and vision of liberation.’ It is natural that one who is disenchanted and dispassionate realizes the knowledge and vision of liberation.

“Thus, bhikkhus, (9)–(10) the knowledge and vision of liberation is the purpose and benefit of disenchantment and dispassion; (8) disenchantment and dispassion are the purpose and benefit of the knowledge and vision of things as they really are; (7) the knowledge and vision of things as they really are is the purpose and benefit of concentration; (6) concentration is the purpose and benefit of pleasure; (5) pleasure is the purpose and benefit of tranquility; (4) tranquility is the purpose and benefit of rapture; (3) rapture is the purpose and benefit of joy; (2) joy is the purpose and benefit of non-regret; and (1) non-regret is the purpose and benefit of virtuous behavior.

“Thus, bhikkhus, one stage flows into the next stage, one stage fills up the next stage, for going from the near shore to the far shore.

why Sam harris 's view is dismissed in most discussions here even though he studied directly with a great master like tulku Urgyen ??

If my innermost nature is pure awareness, is there any relationship between me as a person and me a awareness? I mean, besides the fact that the contents of my consciousness will most of time entail some parts of my personhood, is there any strong relation between me (person) and me (consciousness)? What is the relationship between rigpa and sems?

A lovely opportunity to spend the weekend with a really well trained teacher in the Nyingma Lineage. I've studied and met Rinpoche - he has a deep understanding of the teachings, and is also just a delight to spend the weekend with. If you know folks on the East Coast, please feel free to share this

https://preview.redd.it/4mbjoje52lce1.png?width=2125&format=png&auto=webp&s=786ce1674915d0007a848827d69f3b14e2484f30

Hi,

There has been a great deal of discussion about whether tantric ngöndro should precede the practice of Dzogchen or not. Some teachers require it, while at the same time, a highly respected Lama(s) did not consider tantric ngöndro necessary and did not require it from Dzogchen practitioners.

There is also the so-called Dzogchen ngöndro, in which the four tantric sections are practiced from the Dzogchen perspective.

I would be interested in hearing your views on this matter.

From "As it is" vol. 2 (p. 233-235)

"According to the traditional method of Tibetan Buddhism, the student begins practice with the four or five times hundred thousand preliminaries in the proper, correct manner. Then he or she proceeds on to the yidam practice with its development stage, recitation and completion stage. After that, the student is introduced to the true view of Mahamudra and Dzogchen. The sequence is conventionally laid out in this order: first you remove what obscures you; next, you suffuse your being with blessings; finally, you are introduced to the natural face of awareness.

These days, however, disciples do not have so much time! Also, masters do not seem to stay in one place and teach continuously. I hear that nowadays several masters first give the pointing-out instruction, introducing people to the main point of the practice, and afterwards teach the preliminaries. The view and the conduct can thus be adapted to the time and circumstances. In the world at this time, there is a growing appreciation of and interest in Buddhism. This is because people are more educated, more intelligent. When masters and disciples do not have a lot of time to spend together, there is no opportunity to go through the whole sequence of instructions. I usually also give the whole set of teachings in completeness, all at once. A proverb from where I come from goes: "The wise may still find truth in the words of a rascal."

This approach, of giving the essence at the beginning and then later teaching ngondro, development stage, mantra recitation and completion stage, can be compared to opening the door all the way from the start. When you open the door the daylight penetrates all the way in so, while standing at the door, you can see to the innermost part of the shrine room. Some Buddhist teachers may say about me, "How can he possibly try to immediately point out mind essence without having made his students go through the ngondro of purifying obscurations and gathering the accumulations." Some may raise this objection, but, with all due respect, I feel that it is not incorrect to do that. Why? Because we are now in the Dark Age and there is the prediction that, "At the end of the Dark Age, the teachings of Secret Mantra will blaze forth like wildfire." Secret Mantra here refers to Mahamudra and Dzogchen.

Honestly, if one has received the teachings on mind essence and then practices the preliminaries while remembering to recognize nature of mind, it multiplies the effect tremendously. It is taught that to practice with a pure attitude multiplies the effect one hundred times, while to practice with pure samadhi multiplies the effect one hundred thousand times. Combine the preliminaries with the recognition of mind essence and your practice will be tremendously effective.

You could also practice the preliminaries with simply a good and sincere attitude, and this alone will definitely purify your negative karma. But a good attitude in itself does not suffice as the true path to enlightenment. If you embrace these practices with the correct view of recognizing mind essence, however, the preliminaries become the actual path to enlightenment. If you have a painting of a candle, can it somehow generate light in the room? Wouldn't it be better to have the actual candle flame spreading actual light? In the same way, when we practice taking refuge, the true refuge is to take refuge free from the threefold concepts of subject, object and action. The same goes for the bodhisattva attitude; the true state of awakened mind, ultimate bodhichitta, is free from holding the threefold concepts. It is likewise with Vajrasattva practice, the mandala offering and guru yoga. There is only one way to be free from the threefold concepts, and that is to recognize the true view. I do not feel there is anything inappropriate in giving the point ing-out instruction to people. They can practice the preliminaries afterwards. It is completely fine.

Another point is that when giving a teaching such as this, there needs to be some kind of pure link between master and disciple. I feel that we do have a pure link together. There will not be much chance for anyone to destroy that by impure perception or damaging the vows of the precious samaya, because all of you meeting here will not stay together with me for very long. Therefore, there will not be much chance to break samaya. It is said that a master is like a fire: if you stay too close, you get burned. But if you keep a bit of a distance, you can get the warmth and brightness, and you will not be burned. When everyone goes home to his or her own place, you will have gotten the teaching, and you will not have a chance to break samaya with me. That is a good thing."

"When Longchenpa taught Dzogchen, he taught it with the view of the Shentong because to practice Dzogchen properly, we need to have the Shentong view. So, the view of the Shentong is used whether practicing Mahamudra or Dzogchen meditation."

-from introduction to commentary on "Dolpopa's Mountain Dharma."

Can we say like
"Practioners of Vedanta sees everything as Brahman, so their views is that,
Practioner of Dzogchen practices emptiness of phenomenon, so their view is that
Non practioner has view as self and solid I am, so their view is that"

So, reality is like that for how they view, so anyone can change their view and make it a reality.
By purifying the mind from personal self and practicing towards all as Self, one reach the Brahman kind of reality.
By recognising true nature of mind, and holding to this nature of mind, one clings to this practice in all times, so its a form of clinging to either effortless state(a clinging to a function of mind) and make it stable at all times makes it a permanent view of reality"

The mind becomes its practice. Seems like neuroplasticity in action. All is rooted in practice and all leads to some views that becomes permanent and gives freedom from suffering and might give siddhis too.

My question is Dzgochen has its view and by practice this view becomes permanent or its not the case with Dzogchen?

I hope there won't be much dislikes.

I have found resting in awareness practice very good and also Peter Brown’s teaching very, very good… and would like to follow this thread. But I barely know dharma from karma. Non conceptuality seems to come easy and beautifully so I don’t want to get too bogged down in that regard. Yet I feel a pull to explore this teaching. So many terms out there is a little overwhelming. I’m not that much of a a scholar to be honest so piling through dense material is not realistic at this point.

Your recommendations welcome and/comments on whether this seems worthwhile, or better to continue to keep exploring “this” via simple, effortless, constant noticing.

Vedanta is very simple and straightforward to understand. But Dzogchen seems difficult to understand for me. Can some one tell me whatre the crucial differences.

I recieved an email from Elias. He said that he would be offering the teaching in the not so distant future on-line, and to email ​​cursoseliascapriles@gmail.com to request to be put on the email list to be notified of his future teachings.

Edit: Sorry, this post was in error. It was a reply to a different thread.

For those of you lacking omniscience:

http://rangdrolling.nl/2022/07/05/instructions-on-dzogchen-practice-working-through-obstacles-with-elias-capriles/